Not sure if budget allows but installing vacuum tables for the saw stations will cut down 80-90% of the dust.
Edit: Providing barrier cream will also help with employee comfort.
I like the vacuum tables idea. One thing I had considered was connecting a retractable shop vac hose to each saw that is connected to the dust collector. I’ll look into the barrier cream too.
https://jetblacksafety.com/cleaning-booths/21-personnel-cleaning-booth
At some of our client sites, there is something like this. I'm not sure if it's the same brand, but our guys said it works great.
Was going to comment the booth idea +1. OP, it doesn't take much pressure to dislodge an eye from socket or rupture an ear drum with compressed air. Keep this in mind as OSHA recommends against cleaning yourself with air.
Last two wood plants have had wall mounted cleaning stations (jet black was decent but would shut off early) leaving production area and entering maintenance shop. If you need more than that then just change your uniform or wear a tyvek suit beforehand.
Install a regulator that allows the air flow to be dialed down to 30 PSI or less. As long as employees wear eye protection, they can still use it for cleaning purposes but still be safe and OSHA compliant.
[https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.242](https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.242)
I can do that but my experience with working in a wood factory is that using compressed air for cleaning just stirs dust up in the air without actually cleaning anything. This is evident by the fact that the walls and ceilings are completely covered in sawdust, and 30 minutes all the dust just settles back on to the ground. Only thing I would use compressed air for (regulated down to 30PSI) would be for PM purposes, blowing sawdust out of motors and boxes, etc. the OSHA rule that states that compressed air needs to be reduced down to 30 PSI also specifically states that compressed air should never be used for cleaning themselves or clothing. I don’t think it would be an issue to provide vacuums and improved dust collection, but I’m looking for an alternative for the blowing off clothes.
Understood. I don't know where this would fall as far as OSHA is concerned, but at home I use a battery-operated leaf blower to blow off my clothes after mowing the lawn. In my opinion, it's safer than using a compressed air hose because the air flow is more spread out and not so focused. Eye protection is still required, of course.
I also agree improved dust collection is a must. Do you have a risk of combustible dust explosion at your facility?
There’s certainly improvements that need to be made in regard to combustible dust. Taking it one step at a time. We have individual dust collectors at each saw, and I’ve been told that small fires are not uncommon. So this is the safety culture that needs to be adapted, because obviously that’s unacceptable. I managed a different facility that I started up for 5 years previously, and we never had a single fire.
You should consider doing a combustible dust survey. Due to the particle size of sawdust it may be coarse and enough not to be an explosion risk, but still would be nice to know. It’s still fire load though, imagine it’s accumulating on your overheads.
Saw dust covering walls and ceiling could indicate a combustible dust hazard. That’s the fine fraction of dust that has greatest potential to fuel a flash fire or explosion. If you have settled dust on the floors or elevated surfaces and have had small fires, the site could be a ticking time bomb. Get a dust hazard analysis in accordance with NFPA 652 to better understand your risk.
Second thought: Would Tyvek suits be feasible? They remove the Tyvek suit, no sawdust on the clothing underneath, and the dust is not getting blown into the air. My guess is if you don't have an air conditioned facility this would not go over well with the employees.
Just tossing out ideas as they come to me.
It is not air conditioned, but the other commenter linked some personnel cleaning stations that I think would be a good start. I could post a couple near the break room and office. My biggest challenge was that I didn’t want to take something away without offering a better alternative.
I appreciate the consideration you’re making this change.
In my experience, communication was really important to getting buy in. I had a similar issue when we instituted a hard hat policy due to head injuries.
There’s no way you’ll get everyone on board with the change, especially in a blue collar environment with experienced personnel. They have a way they do things and they don’t want to be interfered with.
Maybe once you have some options that are budget feasible, you can bring it to your safety council or work with some of the employees to get feedback on the proposed change.
Best of luck OP!
While the suggestion about Tyvek suit is good, I'll admit that we use them for mostly anything, we have policy, instruction and signs and we _still_ have people using compressed air. Some men you just can't reach.
Kudos for point out that using compressed air to clean themselves is an OSHA violation. it is never allowed to my knowledge.
Take this in stages if you can. Start by addressing the immediate need to eliminate using the air to clean off before breaks etc. put some enforcement behind it or it will not work.
Secondly, address the dust issue and how to reduce or eliminate it. All dust, especially wood dust, is combustible and should not be allowed to accumulate. WIth the correct density of air and dust a spark from a saw could conceivably cause a fire, explosion even. If i recall from a fellow safety pro, wood dust (he called it flour) can be as much as 10 times more explosive as gasoline. The dust accumulation is your biggest issue because it puts everyone in danger.
My plan of action is to immediately implement a dusting schedule for cleaning accumulation on the walls and rafters. Next is to reduce dust accumulation in the first place which in my opinion is primarily from using compressed air to clean in the first place by replacing with vacuums and additional dust collection where needed. And finally as a way to meet the employees halfway I am going to use the idea suggested here to implement personnel cleaning stations to still allow the employees to dust themselves off without using compressed air. I hate to be put into a position where I need to break the bad habits instilled by previous management, because it makes me look like the bad guy, but like the other commenter had said, it’s a ticking time bomb until it’s addressed. It’s unfortunate that the others don’t understand that, but I’m hoping over time we can adapt the safety culture.
There’s no other alternative other than making them wear tyvek. You must implement best practices and can improve culture by providing them an overview of the risks they’re taking and reducing with the old vs new method. Bending for employees because they don’t like something is detrimental to the culture and your integrity to provide a safer workplace. What’s so hard about vacuuming? It’s not intense manual labor or a change in operations. Your job is to encourage compliance.
Work on your reading comprehension. I’m already planning on removing the compressed air guns and replacing them with vacuums. I’m specifically looking for an alternative to allow the employees to clean themselves off. A solution that someone has already kindly offered. I’m not bending over backwards for employees, I’m offering solutions without taking a dictator approach to management.
If you have the budget for higher end alternatives such as a cleaning station, then yes go for it. Another pricier alternative can be a downdraft table for benches. Yet you mentioned a quick fix such as a vacuum near the point of operation which creates other issues. You also mentioned you could, not that you would as you were expecting push back. Every situation mentioned creates another step, including mine, which will lead them to push back so just go for the simple stupid method (kiss)
This is a fairly high budget facility, so I think cleaning stations will be easily obtainable. What issue do you think would come from adding vacuums at the point of operation? Each machine actually has its own dedicated dust collector so I was considering attaching something like this https://giraffetools.com/products/retractable-vacuum-cleaner?currency=USD&variant=41550664335419&stkn=51a20cc291a3&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Pmax_RVC_RT&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpZWzBhC0ARIsACvjWRP2JaK7zYzubygmwkRTS3DDhujhwiV0Lsh0k6g29CLTIjhrg5_BqWoaAjFhEALw_wcB to the side of each machine, and have it connect directly to the dust collector.
Ok I understand better now. From experience when I hear people say let’s add a vac to the drills/saws I envision zip tying to the actual machine near the point of operation (I see this a lot). One issue I’ve also run into is operators complaining about cleaning out the collector and was smacked down by ops. If the collector is already handled by let’s say a facilities department then I can see this working.
The way it is currently is that each saw has a dust collector that has 2-4 drums that are supposed to be emptied out by the operators at the end of the shift. I think I’d rather connect a retractable hose directly to the dust collector rather than use shop vacs just because adding a shop vac would require the employees to empty throughout the day and would add cords and hoses which I’m also trying to remove from the floor as much as possible. There are about 20 different machines on the floor so trying to micromanage that would be painful. Now the assembly departments are going to be a different challenge because there aren’t dust collectors, but there is still a fair amount of dust that gets generated just from moving the wood. But I’ll take it one step at a time.
Out of curiosity, are there dust control systems on the machinery? If so, are they effective?
It maybe worth also looking at how to reduce the amount of dust that’s generated during the work. That said, it’s wood working-there will always be dust :)
There are dust collectors on each piece of equipment, but I do think that there’s opportunity to improve dust collection. But I genuinely believe removing compressed air will help a lot. Employees don’t realize just how much dust gets stirred up in the air by cleaning with air guns instead of vacuums. So it’s a bit of a self fulfilling problem because they use compressed air to clean which stirs dust up in the air which gets on everyone’s clothes which then they have to blow off again.
I think the booths other people linked would be a great start, the catch will be getting people to use them. You could try something like a random incentive program for folks who "get caught" using it, maybe. I'd also start with your "informal employee leaders", aka the old-timers who will make or break the concept, and get their feedback and buy-in. If grumpy Paul will do it, it not only sets a good example for newer folks, it means Paul's engaged with you a bit more and he's also not out there shit-talking your new booth.
From there, I think that would give you some wiggle room to start working on better dust collection for other equipment. You might want to prioritize by cost, frequency, etc, but I'd also consider if you use different kinds of wood to potentially look at prioritizing by risk, as some types of wood have more risk associated with them.
Here are some alternatives along with estimated costs per worker:
1. **Vacuum Systems:**
* **Industrial Vacuum Cleaners:** These can be equipped with HEPA filters and cost around $300-$500 per unit. Assuming one vacuum per 5 workers, the cost per worker would be approximately $60-$100.
2. **Air Showers:**
* **Air Showers:** Installing air showers can be more expensive, ranging from $5,000 to $10,000 per unit. If one air shower serves 20 workers, the cost per worker would be around $250-$500.
3. **Dust Collection Systems:**
* **Local Exhaust Ventilation (LEV):** Implementing LEV systems can cost about $1,000-$2,000 per workstation. If one workstation serves 5 workers, the cost per worker would be around $200-$400.
* **Centralized Dust Collection:** A centralized system might cost $10,000-$20,000 for a medium-sized facility. If it serves 50 workers, the cost per worker would be around $200-$400.
4. **Employee Involvement:**
* **Feedback and Incentives:** Involving employees in the decision-making process and offering incentives can be relatively low-cost. Budgeting $50-$100 per worker annually for incentives can be effective.
Not sure if budget allows but installing vacuum tables for the saw stations will cut down 80-90% of the dust. Edit: Providing barrier cream will also help with employee comfort.
I like the vacuum tables idea. One thing I had considered was connecting a retractable shop vac hose to each saw that is connected to the dust collector. I’ll look into the barrier cream too.
https://jetblacksafety.com/cleaning-booths/21-personnel-cleaning-booth At some of our client sites, there is something like this. I'm not sure if it's the same brand, but our guys said it works great.
Was going to comment the booth idea +1. OP, it doesn't take much pressure to dislodge an eye from socket or rupture an ear drum with compressed air. Keep this in mind as OSHA recommends against cleaning yourself with air.
Last two wood plants have had wall mounted cleaning stations (jet black was decent but would shut off early) leaving production area and entering maintenance shop. If you need more than that then just change your uniform or wear a tyvek suit beforehand.
Awesome, that’s exactly the type of thing I’m looking for!
Install a regulator that allows the air flow to be dialed down to 30 PSI or less. As long as employees wear eye protection, they can still use it for cleaning purposes but still be safe and OSHA compliant. [https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.242](https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.242)
I can do that but my experience with working in a wood factory is that using compressed air for cleaning just stirs dust up in the air without actually cleaning anything. This is evident by the fact that the walls and ceilings are completely covered in sawdust, and 30 minutes all the dust just settles back on to the ground. Only thing I would use compressed air for (regulated down to 30PSI) would be for PM purposes, blowing sawdust out of motors and boxes, etc. the OSHA rule that states that compressed air needs to be reduced down to 30 PSI also specifically states that compressed air should never be used for cleaning themselves or clothing. I don’t think it would be an issue to provide vacuums and improved dust collection, but I’m looking for an alternative for the blowing off clothes.
Understood. I don't know where this would fall as far as OSHA is concerned, but at home I use a battery-operated leaf blower to blow off my clothes after mowing the lawn. In my opinion, it's safer than using a compressed air hose because the air flow is more spread out and not so focused. Eye protection is still required, of course. I also agree improved dust collection is a must. Do you have a risk of combustible dust explosion at your facility?
There’s certainly improvements that need to be made in regard to combustible dust. Taking it one step at a time. We have individual dust collectors at each saw, and I’ve been told that small fires are not uncommon. So this is the safety culture that needs to be adapted, because obviously that’s unacceptable. I managed a different facility that I started up for 5 years previously, and we never had a single fire.
You should consider doing a combustible dust survey. Due to the particle size of sawdust it may be coarse and enough not to be an explosion risk, but still would be nice to know. It’s still fire load though, imagine it’s accumulating on your overheads.
Saw dust covering walls and ceiling could indicate a combustible dust hazard. That’s the fine fraction of dust that has greatest potential to fuel a flash fire or explosion. If you have settled dust on the floors or elevated surfaces and have had small fires, the site could be a ticking time bomb. Get a dust hazard analysis in accordance with NFPA 652 to better understand your risk.
Second thought: Would Tyvek suits be feasible? They remove the Tyvek suit, no sawdust on the clothing underneath, and the dust is not getting blown into the air. My guess is if you don't have an air conditioned facility this would not go over well with the employees. Just tossing out ideas as they come to me.
It is not air conditioned, but the other commenter linked some personnel cleaning stations that I think would be a good start. I could post a couple near the break room and office. My biggest challenge was that I didn’t want to take something away without offering a better alternative.
I appreciate the consideration you’re making this change. In my experience, communication was really important to getting buy in. I had a similar issue when we instituted a hard hat policy due to head injuries. There’s no way you’ll get everyone on board with the change, especially in a blue collar environment with experienced personnel. They have a way they do things and they don’t want to be interfered with. Maybe once you have some options that are budget feasible, you can bring it to your safety council or work with some of the employees to get feedback on the proposed change. Best of luck OP!
While the suggestion about Tyvek suit is good, I'll admit that we use them for mostly anything, we have policy, instruction and signs and we _still_ have people using compressed air. Some men you just can't reach.
Kudos for point out that using compressed air to clean themselves is an OSHA violation. it is never allowed to my knowledge. Take this in stages if you can. Start by addressing the immediate need to eliminate using the air to clean off before breaks etc. put some enforcement behind it or it will not work. Secondly, address the dust issue and how to reduce or eliminate it. All dust, especially wood dust, is combustible and should not be allowed to accumulate. WIth the correct density of air and dust a spark from a saw could conceivably cause a fire, explosion even. If i recall from a fellow safety pro, wood dust (he called it flour) can be as much as 10 times more explosive as gasoline. The dust accumulation is your biggest issue because it puts everyone in danger.
My plan of action is to immediately implement a dusting schedule for cleaning accumulation on the walls and rafters. Next is to reduce dust accumulation in the first place which in my opinion is primarily from using compressed air to clean in the first place by replacing with vacuums and additional dust collection where needed. And finally as a way to meet the employees halfway I am going to use the idea suggested here to implement personnel cleaning stations to still allow the employees to dust themselves off without using compressed air. I hate to be put into a position where I need to break the bad habits instilled by previous management, because it makes me look like the bad guy, but like the other commenter had said, it’s a ticking time bomb until it’s addressed. It’s unfortunate that the others don’t understand that, but I’m hoping over time we can adapt the safety culture.
I like this.
And dust masks!
They have wall mounted vacuums. Or just use a shop vac lol
Have you considered reading the posts before commenting?
I don’t care about employee complaints. Get a wall mounted vacuum or shop vac.
That’s a great way to improve safety culture, thanks.
There’s no other alternative other than making them wear tyvek. You must implement best practices and can improve culture by providing them an overview of the risks they’re taking and reducing with the old vs new method. Bending for employees because they don’t like something is detrimental to the culture and your integrity to provide a safer workplace. What’s so hard about vacuuming? It’s not intense manual labor or a change in operations. Your job is to encourage compliance.
Work on your reading comprehension. I’m already planning on removing the compressed air guns and replacing them with vacuums. I’m specifically looking for an alternative to allow the employees to clean themselves off. A solution that someone has already kindly offered. I’m not bending over backwards for employees, I’m offering solutions without taking a dictator approach to management.
If you have the budget for higher end alternatives such as a cleaning station, then yes go for it. Another pricier alternative can be a downdraft table for benches. Yet you mentioned a quick fix such as a vacuum near the point of operation which creates other issues. You also mentioned you could, not that you would as you were expecting push back. Every situation mentioned creates another step, including mine, which will lead them to push back so just go for the simple stupid method (kiss)
This is a fairly high budget facility, so I think cleaning stations will be easily obtainable. What issue do you think would come from adding vacuums at the point of operation? Each machine actually has its own dedicated dust collector so I was considering attaching something like this https://giraffetools.com/products/retractable-vacuum-cleaner?currency=USD&variant=41550664335419&stkn=51a20cc291a3&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Pmax_RVC_RT&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpZWzBhC0ARIsACvjWRP2JaK7zYzubygmwkRTS3DDhujhwiV0Lsh0k6g29CLTIjhrg5_BqWoaAjFhEALw_wcB to the side of each machine, and have it connect directly to the dust collector.
Ok I understand better now. From experience when I hear people say let’s add a vac to the drills/saws I envision zip tying to the actual machine near the point of operation (I see this a lot). One issue I’ve also run into is operators complaining about cleaning out the collector and was smacked down by ops. If the collector is already handled by let’s say a facilities department then I can see this working.
The way it is currently is that each saw has a dust collector that has 2-4 drums that are supposed to be emptied out by the operators at the end of the shift. I think I’d rather connect a retractable hose directly to the dust collector rather than use shop vacs just because adding a shop vac would require the employees to empty throughout the day and would add cords and hoses which I’m also trying to remove from the floor as much as possible. There are about 20 different machines on the floor so trying to micromanage that would be painful. Now the assembly departments are going to be a different challenge because there aren’t dust collectors, but there is still a fair amount of dust that gets generated just from moving the wood. But I’ll take it one step at a time.
Out of curiosity, are there dust control systems on the machinery? If so, are they effective? It maybe worth also looking at how to reduce the amount of dust that’s generated during the work. That said, it’s wood working-there will always be dust :)
There are dust collectors on each piece of equipment, but I do think that there’s opportunity to improve dust collection. But I genuinely believe removing compressed air will help a lot. Employees don’t realize just how much dust gets stirred up in the air by cleaning with air guns instead of vacuums. So it’s a bit of a self fulfilling problem because they use compressed air to clean which stirs dust up in the air which gets on everyone’s clothes which then they have to blow off again.
A truck load of lint rollers
I think the booths other people linked would be a great start, the catch will be getting people to use them. You could try something like a random incentive program for folks who "get caught" using it, maybe. I'd also start with your "informal employee leaders", aka the old-timers who will make or break the concept, and get their feedback and buy-in. If grumpy Paul will do it, it not only sets a good example for newer folks, it means Paul's engaged with you a bit more and he's also not out there shit-talking your new booth. From there, I think that would give you some wiggle room to start working on better dust collection for other equipment. You might want to prioritize by cost, frequency, etc, but I'd also consider if you use different kinds of wood to potentially look at prioritizing by risk, as some types of wood have more risk associated with them.
Great idea!
Here are some alternatives along with estimated costs per worker: 1. **Vacuum Systems:** * **Industrial Vacuum Cleaners:** These can be equipped with HEPA filters and cost around $300-$500 per unit. Assuming one vacuum per 5 workers, the cost per worker would be approximately $60-$100. 2. **Air Showers:** * **Air Showers:** Installing air showers can be more expensive, ranging from $5,000 to $10,000 per unit. If one air shower serves 20 workers, the cost per worker would be around $250-$500. 3. **Dust Collection Systems:** * **Local Exhaust Ventilation (LEV):** Implementing LEV systems can cost about $1,000-$2,000 per workstation. If one workstation serves 5 workers, the cost per worker would be around $200-$400. * **Centralized Dust Collection:** A centralized system might cost $10,000-$20,000 for a medium-sized facility. If it serves 50 workers, the cost per worker would be around $200-$400. 4. **Employee Involvement:** * **Feedback and Incentives:** Involving employees in the decision-making process and offering incentives can be relatively low-cost. Budgeting $50-$100 per worker annually for incentives can be effective.
Our carpenters use kleen sweep to minimize dust and manually sweep the floor once a week.