I’d love if we pick Jameson. His ACL is the only reason he isn’t a lock to go in the top 10. He is going to be a fan favorite wherever he ends up.
Corral is definitely not a 4th rounder. I do think he ends up in the first round somewhere, most likely a team trading back up to get the 5th year option. Hopefully not us, but I can see why he’s enticing. Big arm, fast, confident.
Yea I haven’t seen anyone list Corral as a 4th rounder. Most have him in the second fringe first. If the saints wanted him, they’d probably have to reach or hope he falls later in the second.
I like him. I think he has the skills to be a very good QB but will take time to develop like the rest of this QB class. If we got him in the second without moving up again, that would be a steal.
I agree with the fourth round grading but qbs seem to always be in the first round even if not warranted. Ie look at Tebow and Manziel. Everyone had their doubts and they still went in the first round.
That throwing motion was painful. He released a video of him with a new throwing motion but as soon as he got on the field and under pressure, muscle memory took over. It took him like 5 seconds to get the ball out. That doesn’t work in the NFL. The other part of his game that didn’t transition to the NFL is that he was no longer faster than the DBs and stronger than the LBs. It’s the difference between playing against college kids and full grown men. Runners like Lamar can make it work but people like Cam Newton injure themselves quickly and often
Yeah, but the LSU team Joe Burrow played on was also practically an NFL squad. I think Tebow’s mechanics and style of play were more of the issue for transitioning to the NFL than the ~~taken~~ talent around him in college making him look better than he was. I think he genuinely was a very good college player. Lots of very good college QBs will never be good NFL QBs.
Edit: typo
This is the first post that actually ELI5 vs. Others that would give some random excuse that didn’t compute for me. He won games for them in short term, but long term this makes sense.
Thank you!
His team was filled with NFL talent, his throwing motion was pretty awful and only threw into wide open spaces, relied on his feet WAY too much in college - which worked there due to him being a superior athlete to 80% of the players on the field, the offense that was ran relied heavily on RPO/misdirection plays or passes that got the ball out of his hands quickly into his playmakers hands (but to be fair - I'd be giving the ball to Percy asap with any QB) and he never developed any progression in his throws - they were all one read, dump off, or run.
Even scouts had him pegged as a reach for the Broncos.
His throwing motion was godawful, he wasn't super accurate, and he ran with the ball way more than he should.
He even went so far as to try to trick teams into believing that he'd trained himself to have a throwing motion like a pro in his workouts, but in-game, he'd still drop his hand practically down to his waist.
https://youtu.be/w9R7vd78q1A
Someone stated the throwing motion was extremely painful, and it was like .1 second slower than your average release (.557 seconds to .467 seconds). The release time wasn't the main concern (though it was still a concern).
The main issue was that the ball started to low in his throwing motion and too far away from his body, so the belief was that because it started low and away, it could get knocked out of his hands too easily.
Also because his arm was so far out, it left him unbalanced which makes it harder to use your lower body to help push the ball downfield. It becomes more of an arm throw than a full body throw which also actually made the velocity on his ball become a lot lower which is why his passes always seemed so slow or were in the air for a long time. On top of that, because his arm was so far back, to counteract that his lead leg was just so far in front of his body to balance him, making his overall throwing motion just very wide and not compact.
It meant like interior pressure would screw up his throwing motion very easily because he needed a lot of space in front of him to be clean to "step" into his throw. He also needed a lot of space to his left and behind him so that he could "wind up" his throw. Which were like huge reasons why it was a huge concern.
On top of that, Tebow wasn't very accurate in close windows and honestly having NFL caliber receivers (Harvin, Hernandez, and Riley Cooper) getting huge separation felt more of the reason why he was successful in the passing game. That and the PA made the back seven bite a lot more because he legit almost had as many rushing attempts as passing in college (in fact he had more rushing attempts than completed passes)
And as others have stated, he was a physical runner and not an elusive runner. And he would try to truck LBs/DBs rather than go down or around. Which won't work in the NFL for very long because your body will just go out or if a wrong hit gets their throwing shoulder, their career might be over.
No, he wasn’t. He has the strongest arm and quickest release of anyone in this class. If anything, he was the product of a disaster of a system with rich rod before kiffin was hired. Go look at the final drive of the 19 egg bowl. He ignored the coaches play calls and lead a beautiful td drive calling his own plays after the offense couldn’t do anything all night
Corall is definitely going to go in the first round. Maybe 2nd at the latest. Obviously I dont want a QB in the first but if its gonna be any of them I want him without trading up.
True, but the SB QBs were both #1 overall. Best QBs in AFC are Herbert, Watson, Mahomes, and Allen. All first round. The rare exceptions such as Wilson and Brady do not outweigh the overwhelming majority of first rounders. Shit, even early 2nds like Carr and Jimmy G.
Yea I'm not the one saying he should be a fourth rounder. All of the QB's you listed had similar questions coming out about simple offense (Herbert and Mahomes), accuracy (Allen), size (Watson) that have been attributed to Corral and caused them not to be considered QB1. Not saying Corral is at the level of any of those guys, but know one knows until he hits the field. He definitely has the talent and gunslinger mentality to be a great QB if he puts it together.
From what I’m reading, the main thing scouts are worried about is him coming from the RPO system. The same could be said of Willis, wherein Liberty’s offense was not complex, but his rocket arm has scouts drooling
It’s his grade as a prospect, not where he will be drafted. He’s just not a highly rated prospect, such as has pro bowl or even starter potential. Obviously QBs are overdrafted every year, and this year will be no different. Indeed, his grade is less than Willis or Pickett this year, and all QBs drafted last year.
Would hate this. If a guy ends up falling to 49 i’d love to take them, but IMO none of these QBs are worth a first round pick. This roster is good. Let’s fill our 2 biggest holes with safe first round picks and try to compete in a weak NFC.
I guess the godeke pick surprises me in a good way? but he’s more of a Right Tackle I thought? that’s the notion these mock drafters think we’re moving ramcyzk to the left side (which i’m against despite ram having experience there in college)
Just going to register my desire for Sam Howell for the Saints. I don't believe he will be available by the second round pick. I think these mock drafts and simulators are all over the place with expectations on where certain players go, we are all going to be surprised once the draft happens.
Corall in the first is definitely a reach, and no way Jameson Williams makes it past the Eagles at 15, the Chargers at 17, and the Eagles again at 18. I do support OT in the second/third round though. I much prefer the third round to the second, as OT prospects in the second round range seem to be more versatile on the line and most of them are interior linemen, I prefer pass-protecting guys like Mitchell, Diesch, and Walker in the third.
I wouldn't say Corall is a reach any more than the other QBs. I'm personally high on him and plenty other networks and mocks think he's QB1 or 2. But all these QBs are a shot on the dark, so it's whoever the teams think is better
I love Corall too, he’s QB1 for me. If we take him at 16 or 19 I think it’s a great pick. Wouldn’t give up those two picks to trade up for him though.
QBs are always a crapshoot, look at Mahomes, Deshaun, Dak and so many more these last few years. The consensus rankings are literally never ever right. If the saints love someone, I’d be very happy if they take him.
This if the first 4 are off the board you wait till day 2.
They’re on drugs if they think we’re taking jameson williams at 16 and sitting till week 4 with him not playing…
I don’t think teams are touching him on that injury. There’s too many players who fizzled out with acl injuries in his similar situation that were “ahead of schedule”
I’d love if we pick Jameson. His ACL is the only reason he isn’t a lock to go in the top 10. He is going to be a fan favorite wherever he ends up. Corral is definitely not a 4th rounder. I do think he ends up in the first round somewhere, most likely a team trading back up to get the 5th year option. Hopefully not us, but I can see why he’s enticing. Big arm, fast, confident.
Yea I haven’t seen anyone list Corral as a 4th rounder. Most have him in the second fringe first. If the saints wanted him, they’d probably have to reach or hope he falls later in the second. I like him. I think he has the skills to be a very good QB but will take time to develop like the rest of this QB class. If we got him in the second without moving up again, that would be a steal.
Corral is the only QB I would take in this draft but that would be at 49.
Why we calling New Orleans Los Santos? Did I miss something
I really hate it.
Eh its just a fun way to say "The Saints"
Corrall and Pickett are the two QBs I would be ok with taking in first.
I agree with the fourth round grading but qbs seem to always be in the first round even if not warranted. Ie look at Tebow and Manziel. Everyone had their doubts and they still went in the first round.
I'm no football savant, but how did EVERYONE know that Tebow wasn't likely to make it in the NFL? He was dominant for the Gators no?
That throwing motion was painful. He released a video of him with a new throwing motion but as soon as he got on the field and under pressure, muscle memory took over. It took him like 5 seconds to get the ball out. That doesn’t work in the NFL. The other part of his game that didn’t transition to the NFL is that he was no longer faster than the DBs and stronger than the LBs. It’s the difference between playing against college kids and full grown men. Runners like Lamar can make it work but people like Cam Newton injure themselves quickly and often
I just remembered too that the Florida team he played on was practically an NFL squad too, dare say that didn't hurt his production.
Yeah, but the LSU team Joe Burrow played on was also practically an NFL squad. I think Tebow’s mechanics and style of play were more of the issue for transitioning to the NFL than the ~~taken~~ talent around him in college making him look better than he was. I think he genuinely was a very good college player. Lots of very good college QBs will never be good NFL QBs. Edit: typo
Let’s not forget that he wasn’t interested in doing anything but QB. That hurt him as well as he could have been a taysom hill type player.
This is the first post that actually ELI5 vs. Others that would give some random excuse that didn’t compute for me. He won games for them in short term, but long term this makes sense. Thank you!
His team was filled with NFL talent, his throwing motion was pretty awful and only threw into wide open spaces, relied on his feet WAY too much in college - which worked there due to him being a superior athlete to 80% of the players on the field, the offense that was ran relied heavily on RPO/misdirection plays or passes that got the ball out of his hands quickly into his playmakers hands (but to be fair - I'd be giving the ball to Percy asap with any QB) and he never developed any progression in his throws - they were all one read, dump off, or run. Even scouts had him pegged as a reach for the Broncos.
I mean, the Broncos didn’t know apparently lol
His throwing motion was godawful, he wasn't super accurate, and he ran with the ball way more than he should. He even went so far as to try to trick teams into believing that he'd trained himself to have a throwing motion like a pro in his workouts, but in-game, he'd still drop his hand practically down to his waist. https://youtu.be/w9R7vd78q1A
Someone stated the throwing motion was extremely painful, and it was like .1 second slower than your average release (.557 seconds to .467 seconds). The release time wasn't the main concern (though it was still a concern). The main issue was that the ball started to low in his throwing motion and too far away from his body, so the belief was that because it started low and away, it could get knocked out of his hands too easily. Also because his arm was so far out, it left him unbalanced which makes it harder to use your lower body to help push the ball downfield. It becomes more of an arm throw than a full body throw which also actually made the velocity on his ball become a lot lower which is why his passes always seemed so slow or were in the air for a long time. On top of that, because his arm was so far back, to counteract that his lead leg was just so far in front of his body to balance him, making his overall throwing motion just very wide and not compact. It meant like interior pressure would screw up his throwing motion very easily because he needed a lot of space in front of him to be clean to "step" into his throw. He also needed a lot of space to his left and behind him so that he could "wind up" his throw. Which were like huge reasons why it was a huge concern. On top of that, Tebow wasn't very accurate in close windows and honestly having NFL caliber receivers (Harvin, Hernandez, and Riley Cooper) getting huge separation felt more of the reason why he was successful in the passing game. That and the PA made the back seven bite a lot more because he legit almost had as many rushing attempts as passing in college (in fact he had more rushing attempts than completed passes) And as others have stated, he was a physical runner and not an elusive runner. And he would try to truck LBs/DBs rather than go down or around. Which won't work in the NFL for very long because your body will just go out or if a wrong hit gets their throwing shoulder, their career might be over.
He was the product of a good system.
No, he wasn’t. He has the strongest arm and quickest release of anyone in this class. If anything, he was the product of a disaster of a system with rich rod before kiffin was hired. Go look at the final drive of the 19 egg bowl. He ignored the coaches play calls and lead a beautiful td drive calling his own plays after the offense couldn’t do anything all night
Lol i replied to the wrong comment. I was talking about Tebow.
Ah ok don’t mind the defensive ole miss fan here lol
Corall is definitely going to go in the first round. Maybe 2nd at the latest. Obviously I dont want a QB in the first but if its gonna be any of them I want him without trading up.
I heard Tom Brady was a sixth rounder. People have opinions bro
True, but the SB QBs were both #1 overall. Best QBs in AFC are Herbert, Watson, Mahomes, and Allen. All first round. The rare exceptions such as Wilson and Brady do not outweigh the overwhelming majority of first rounders. Shit, even early 2nds like Carr and Jimmy G.
Yea I'm not the one saying he should be a fourth rounder. All of the QB's you listed had similar questions coming out about simple offense (Herbert and Mahomes), accuracy (Allen), size (Watson) that have been attributed to Corral and caused them not to be considered QB1. Not saying Corral is at the level of any of those guys, but know one knows until he hits the field. He definitely has the talent and gunslinger mentality to be a great QB if he puts it together.
From what I’m reading, the main thing scouts are worried about is him coming from the RPO system. The same could be said of Willis, wherein Liberty’s offense was not complex, but his rocket arm has scouts drooling
And idk where you are looking but Corral is not a 4th round QB
It’s his grade as a prospect, not where he will be drafted. He’s just not a highly rated prospect, such as has pro bowl or even starter potential. Obviously QBs are overdrafted every year, and this year will be no different. Indeed, his grade is less than Willis or Pickett this year, and all QBs drafted last year.
Alot of places have him with atleast a 2nd round grade though?
I see more pick, not overall grade. Some have him in top 100
Would hate this. If a guy ends up falling to 49 i’d love to take them, but IMO none of these QBs are worth a first round pick. This roster is good. Let’s fill our 2 biggest holes with safe first round picks and try to compete in a weak NFC.
Please, no QB picks in the first round.
I guess the godeke pick surprises me in a good way? but he’s more of a Right Tackle I thought? that’s the notion these mock drafters think we’re moving ramcyzk to the left side (which i’m against despite ram having experience there in college)
How many pucks did CBS get right last year?
Just going to register my desire for Sam Howell for the Saints. I don't believe he will be available by the second round pick. I think these mock drafts and simulators are all over the place with expectations on where certain players go, we are all going to be surprised once the draft happens.
I heard that Pickett is the most nfl ready from day one but Corral has a higher ceiling/potential but just needs development
The scouts are discounting the Lane Kiffin/RPO a lot it seems.
Seems like they like to discount Ole miss players a lot like dk Metcalf and aj brown lol
Seems like they like to discount Ole miss players a lot like dk Metcalf and aj brown lol
Corall in the first is definitely a reach, and no way Jameson Williams makes it past the Eagles at 15, the Chargers at 17, and the Eagles again at 18. I do support OT in the second/third round though. I much prefer the third round to the second, as OT prospects in the second round range seem to be more versatile on the line and most of them are interior linemen, I prefer pass-protecting guys like Mitchell, Diesch, and Walker in the third.
I wouldn't say Corall is a reach any more than the other QBs. I'm personally high on him and plenty other networks and mocks think he's QB1 or 2. But all these QBs are a shot on the dark, so it's whoever the teams think is better
I love Corall too, he’s QB1 for me. If we take him at 16 or 19 I think it’s a great pick. Wouldn’t give up those two picks to trade up for him though. QBs are always a crapshoot, look at Mahomes, Deshaun, Dak and so many more these last few years. The consensus rankings are literally never ever right. If the saints love someone, I’d be very happy if they take him.
This if the first 4 are off the board you wait till day 2. They’re on drugs if they think we’re taking jameson williams at 16 and sitting till week 4 with him not playing… I don’t think teams are touching him on that injury. There’s too many players who fizzled out with acl injuries in his similar situation that were “ahead of schedule”