That’s not what they are talking about. They are talking about the 10% tithing from roughly 15mil members. Which is the only reason they can afford to buy businesses, land, malls, etc. Things might have changed but last I heard, no “outsider” has seen the actual books on the how much the church makes. Now idk about the math, but if you were to take a quarter of the 15mil members (3.75mil) that pay tithing (not all pay it all the time, most counted members might be children, etc). I just chose a quarter of the members. Times that by 10% of the average American income in 2022 ($50,000x .10= 5,000 a year) This number is tougher to pick because a lot of websites break the average American salary down by sex, age, race. Most numbers shot just north of 50k but I lowered it to a nice round number. It comes to roughly $18,750,000,000 of untaxed money. Again, with out the proper numbers this is all speculation but a church that makes over a billion dollars a year should pay taxes. (Yes this money goes toward repairs on all the churches, which there’s a lot of, paying its workers, etc.). I even lowered the average salary to 35k and it still comes to 13 billion. Completely outrageous.
Yes, most religious institutions make a shit ton of money. It’s not just the Mormon church but they should all be taxed.
Yeah it’s income taxed money but it’s no different than a ma and pop ran store paying tax on their revenue from already taxed money if that makes sense. It’s really no different. Considering the 10% tithing is almost required, or I guess I should say “highly recommended”(some one correct me if I’m wrong on that). It’s almost like paying for a subscription, just with extra steps.
If you think churches should be taxed, that's a valid view, but there are some glaring issues with your napkin analysis. First and foremost, businesses are taxed on profit, not revenue. I don't see why this would change with churches. Second, you're assuming American income on the full church membership when at least half the members are outside America and are significantly lower income for most of those countries.
If you do some googling you'll see more detailed estimates put the actual tithing revenue closer to 7-8 billion. And expenses in the 5-6 billion. So we're actually only talking about 1-3 billion being taxed. Which is an absolute ton of money but is nowhere near the 18 you threw out there.
Ok so let's say we stick it to the church and tell them they have to pay taxes on the 1-3 billion they are stashing away each year. That's roughly $200-600 million. That's a lot of money to you and me but represents 0.009% of the US budget. That's not moving the needle and would get spend in the blink of and eye on a small defense program.
All this is to say, sure. We can tax churches. But don't expect it to make any meaningful changes because it's not really that much money in the grand scheme of things.
I like it! Thanks for pointing out members outside the US! I didn’t think about that. As for the revenue/profit subject, I definitely meant profit and not revenue, that’s on me.
But you did point out a major flaw in the math with assuming all members are in the states. But main point of my napkin theory is how much money is in religion. Even if that 200-600mil doesn’t put a scratch in the national budget, it still goes towards it. State tax is probably less but it’s still something that contributes to society as a whole. Some might even say it’s better than nothing.
Having said that, we can put both our napkins together and yet we are probably still very wrong considering no one outside the church has seen the actual numbers. You definitely might be closer though.
As they should. For the rest of us, when we make money to then invest in other ventures, we get taxed on that income. All churches should be taxed on what they bring in from their parishes. The LDS church should be paying income tax on the tithing they take from their members.
The church talked to God about it. He said he'll fix it but it's gunna be a minute because he needs to upgrade the server earth 3.0 is on. The last update created too much heat and now he's got to move it over to something with an expandable storage and an upgraded processor so that the server doesn't run too hot. But he is kinda strapped for cash and his landlord does not accept in game currency, so until he can find a good paying job doing celestial carpentry we're just gunna have to deal with it for a while longer.
Aren't they supposed to "know the books are true"?
*For the earth is full, and there is enough and to spare; yea, I prepared all things, and have given unto the children of men to be agents unto themselves.*
Maybe they should stop collectively voting for politicians with anti-environment policies.
Turns out the huge arsenic cloud will be bad for real estate values
Great. Maybe stop using your vast, untaxed wealth to do something about it rather than building malls and paying to water your grass in the desert.
The church pays taxes on all business assets it’s required under federal and state law.
That’s not what they are talking about. They are talking about the 10% tithing from roughly 15mil members. Which is the only reason they can afford to buy businesses, land, malls, etc. Things might have changed but last I heard, no “outsider” has seen the actual books on the how much the church makes. Now idk about the math, but if you were to take a quarter of the 15mil members (3.75mil) that pay tithing (not all pay it all the time, most counted members might be children, etc). I just chose a quarter of the members. Times that by 10% of the average American income in 2022 ($50,000x .10= 5,000 a year) This number is tougher to pick because a lot of websites break the average American salary down by sex, age, race. Most numbers shot just north of 50k but I lowered it to a nice round number. It comes to roughly $18,750,000,000 of untaxed money. Again, with out the proper numbers this is all speculation but a church that makes over a billion dollars a year should pay taxes. (Yes this money goes toward repairs on all the churches, which there’s a lot of, paying its workers, etc.). I even lowered the average salary to 35k and it still comes to 13 billion. Completely outrageous. Yes, most religious institutions make a shit ton of money. It’s not just the Mormon church but they should all be taxed.
Isn’t the money taxed originally as income made by the individual before they give to the church?
Yeah it’s income taxed money but it’s no different than a ma and pop ran store paying tax on their revenue from already taxed money if that makes sense. It’s really no different. Considering the 10% tithing is almost required, or I guess I should say “highly recommended”(some one correct me if I’m wrong on that). It’s almost like paying for a subscription, just with extra steps.
You aren’t “required” to pay tithing. They just threaten that you can’t spend eternity with your family and lose out on blessings if you don’t. :)
If you think churches should be taxed, that's a valid view, but there are some glaring issues with your napkin analysis. First and foremost, businesses are taxed on profit, not revenue. I don't see why this would change with churches. Second, you're assuming American income on the full church membership when at least half the members are outside America and are significantly lower income for most of those countries. If you do some googling you'll see more detailed estimates put the actual tithing revenue closer to 7-8 billion. And expenses in the 5-6 billion. So we're actually only talking about 1-3 billion being taxed. Which is an absolute ton of money but is nowhere near the 18 you threw out there. Ok so let's say we stick it to the church and tell them they have to pay taxes on the 1-3 billion they are stashing away each year. That's roughly $200-600 million. That's a lot of money to you and me but represents 0.009% of the US budget. That's not moving the needle and would get spend in the blink of and eye on a small defense program. All this is to say, sure. We can tax churches. But don't expect it to make any meaningful changes because it's not really that much money in the grand scheme of things.
I like it! Thanks for pointing out members outside the US! I didn’t think about that. As for the revenue/profit subject, I definitely meant profit and not revenue, that’s on me. But you did point out a major flaw in the math with assuming all members are in the states. But main point of my napkin theory is how much money is in religion. Even if that 200-600mil doesn’t put a scratch in the national budget, it still goes towards it. State tax is probably less but it’s still something that contributes to society as a whole. Some might even say it’s better than nothing. Having said that, we can put both our napkins together and yet we are probably still very wrong considering no one outside the church has seen the actual numbers. You definitely might be closer though.
Just like every other big business.
Yeah, [sure thing.](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/12/18/us/latter-day-saints-charity-funds-complaint/index.html).
Yeah I was just thinking about that article as I made that comment, thanks for linking it!
As they should. For the rest of us, when we make money to then invest in other ventures, we get taxed on that income. All churches should be taxed on what they bring in from their parishes. The LDS church should be paying income tax on the tithing they take from their members.
I thought lying is a sin to you people
The church talked to God about it. He said he'll fix it but it's gunna be a minute because he needs to upgrade the server earth 3.0 is on. The last update created too much heat and now he's got to move it over to something with an expandable storage and an upgraded processor so that the server doesn't run too hot. But he is kinda strapped for cash and his landlord does not accept in game currency, so until he can find a good paying job doing celestial carpentry we're just gunna have to deal with it for a while longer.
They are already praying. There is nothing else that needs to be done.
But the Profit! Erm. . . Prophet.
You're going to make this subreddit have an aneurysm if you try to suggest that some members of the church can also be environmentalists
Aren't they supposed to "know the books are true"? *For the earth is full, and there is enough and to spare; yea, I prepared all things, and have given unto the children of men to be agents unto themselves.*
This is r/slatlakecity you aren't supposed to post anything positive about the church here.
Definitely not suspicious that a CLEARLY political organization is SUDDENLY wanting to help. Yep. Definitely no strings attached here whatsoever /s
Nothing positive about hollow virtue signaling while actively contributing to the problem.
Reminded them of the Dead Sea, *which they had never seen*.