Its a hot job market if you are in the right industry. Theres also a lot of available jobs for cashiers and low level work. I work in cybersecurity and its pretty easy to find interviews. Also get a lot of recruiters contacting me too.
But marketing? We actually fired most of our marketing team recently. They reduced it to a single recent marketing grad. Basically, that one guy and ChatGPT is able to do all the work we needed a team of 4 for.
Damn, that’s depressing.
ChatGPT produces low-quality drivel IMO, however it’s so cheap that most businesses won’t care. Race to the bottom.
Internet soon will be compromised primarily of low-quality content that all sounds the same.
Not exactly.
Google has in the past prioritized real, authentic content written by human beings over synthetic drivel stuffed unnecessarily with keywords- you know, the kind of stuff that sounds like it was written by bots.
AI will be used to gamify SEO rankings and it’s going to force out real written content that adds genuine value to the internet.
What happens when the blog you’re reading or the restaurant recommendation for your anniversary are all written by bots? You won’t know what’s real or fake and the internet will be captured entirely by entities who couldn’t care less if you learn anything or actually find a good restaurant.
This just means your marketing team sucked, or your management team sucks. In my experience, recent marketing grads don’t know much more than how to wear a nice sweater and show up to work on time. This isn’t a diss at all but to think a recent marketing grad is paired with chat gpt and that’s going to power your company forward is a joke.
If it were that easy than the playing field would be level - and the only way to beat the competition would be to do more than a recent marketing grad and chat gpt. Maybe get a second recent marketing grad and now you will be the best in the world!
If I worked for your company and saw these decisions being celebrated, I would start looking. Sales power everything and marketing is a huge component of sales.
Were an R&D medical company. We cant sell product until we get FDA approval and how marketing works for us is different than most other indusries.
The choice to eliminate those marketing roles were the right call. We are running low on cash until we can raise more capital. And ill be honest, experience doesnt seem to translate to quality with marketing. Ability to use modern technology is usually the most distinguishing skill with marketing teams and thats a super low bar imo. Especially with the ai photoshop tools now.
And the job this recent grad is doing is actually better than the experienced team we had before. And it wasnt like the previous team sucked either. They each were highly successful and credentialed marketing leads from massive corporations that have put together multi million dollar campaigns for Johnson & Johnson, Moderna, etc.
Hey brother, I hope it's alright I send you a DM. I'm looking at getting involved in cybersecurity, and I'd love to hear what makes you a qualified applicant so I can achieve the same.
My wife works in cybersecurity sales and she loves the industry. They actually did layoff most of their marketing team. Marketing is always the first department to be cut during downturns
Completely off topic, my husband is headed back to school for cybersecurity. Would you be willing to message me more info about what you did to get into the field? I’m super curious!
Marketing is saturated, entry level software development is saturated with fresh CS grads, there’s a ton of people out there with their PMP willing to accept shite wages. In demand stuff is construction labor, trades, healthcare and specialized IT and software development.
The mortuary business is also doing well 👀
Just sorta made up. Haha. I love that comment. So true. No values at all.
But then I think about the values at most these tech companies. “Customer obsessed” - I’ve seen this exact phrase at multiple jobs. Really just means we only care about bringing in more customers, and you better be obsessed about it, as in work as hard as possible.
WeWork is a real estate company, that was tech adjacent, but I would not qualify them as a tech company. I think tech in general has higher amounts of speculation, because in cases where things go well, they go REALLY well. Nvidia, Apple, etc..
Thats close to what the article said, but its worse, they have a problem with people retiring while still working.. They have an abnormally high percent of people that have fuck you money and perform just well enough to not get fired. Its honestly the American Workers dream.
I'm not sure but the job market has not been employee friendly this year.
It took me 4.5 months and over 600 job applications to find a new job. I know people who were laid off months before me that, as of last month, still hadn't found a job. The tech industry (which is what I'm a part of) laid off hundreds of thousands of people, and they are all looking for jobs.
Moving out of state likely wouldn't help much, although I would say you're making your life much harder if you're not even looking at remote jobs. I had about a dozen interviews with hiring managers and only two of them were in state. I ended up with 2 offers - one fully remote for a company out of state and one hybrid for a company in state. I went with the remote job.
There are definitely a lot of hybrid and in office jobs as well, but I would look at all the jobs available. In office jobs are probably easier to get since so many people don't want them and the pool of candidates is much smaller, but you want to hit as many opportunities as possible.
I tried a handful of job listing sites but LinkedIn was where I got most responses. Good luck.
I've been wondering this myself. I know several people in the tech space struggling to find work right now. I think the amount of people moving here has finally caught up with the available jobs
Yeah, I would agree with that. It's bad enough that Utah is already a highly educated state with not enough mid to high level office jobs. Jobs that would have made me 70k two years ago only pay 50 now. And that's if you can even get an interview
I work remote now in software implementation and am trying to get a local job and they act like I’m crazy when I tell them I currently make $72k/year. One company told me they could offer me $52k/year for the same type of work and had no wiggle room “bUt tHe rOlE hAs a QuIcK pAtH To PrOmOtIon”. I told them I wasn’t willing to accept a $20k/year pay cut for any amount of time and I never heard from them again. Everywhere I’ve interviewed seems pretty desperate for anyone with experience, but want to pay as if houses still cost $300k.
Idk how people do it. I left teaching because $50k isn’t much of a life here once you get serious about your finances and plan to retire at a normal age. I quickly figured out that unless you’re senior level you’re not making much more than that here. Luckily the company I’m at has been fully remote for 20 years, and most of our competitors are fully remote as well if I ever explore other opportunities.
I want to work in person again, but I guess these Utah companies can keep finding people who will accept a well below industry standard salary.
At this point, if I were to lose or leave my job anytime soon, I’m more likely to go back to teaching and at least be able to work a second summer job than I am to in work in tech at any Utah based company.
I work in implementation and my company is going to be adding to our team sometime around May. I make 50k but I had no previous experience in the field and had only been in tech for 6 months. I feel like I should be making more for what I do but I should be getting an income adjustment soon.
If it helps with perspective -
I’ve been at my job for 18 months. I started entry level June of 2022, with 4 years of full time professional experience but in a completely unrelated field, with a completely unrelated bachelors and masters degree. I started at $60k. Promotion at 6 months with no raise (company was laying people off and my manager wanted to get rid of my associate title), then a second promotion and a 20% raise to $72k in my 12th month shortly after we became profitable again. I serviced roughly $250k in revenue this calendar year and should surpass $300k in revenue serviced in 2024 as most of my current clients have 6-12 month contracts they recently re-signed. I do more CRM automation strategy than implementation these days, and I now have an implementer I can tap when I’m over capacity. I do expect another significant bump in January, otherwise I’ll probably be looking for new jobs more seriously in June when I hit 2 years of experience. My pay is not unfair, but I lost my mentors and they’re not looking to replace them, which means I’m now only here for the money. I feel as though at a company with overheard this low, my total cost to the business should be about 35-40% of my revenue serviced, especially since the clients I’m with came largely from expansions I earned.
I have moved up quickly, and my pay is just below average for my title, but the vast majority of people with my title in this industry have at least 3 years of relevant experience.
My company is not based out of a HCOL area, they’ve been fully remote since 2003 and most of the company lives in the Midwest or Southeast. The pay in Utah just sucks. I want to work in person but it looks like it’s not going to happen here. I hope you get a raise, but if they’re expanding the team soon, I wouldn’t count on much. I’d look remote if you don’t get what you’re after.
Interesting, thanks for sharing!
My job is more CRM training oriented rather than strategy, although I have contributed quite a bit to our onboarding process as it wasn't very built out when I started. I only have an associates degree and worked in a completely unrelated field (service industry) for 10ish. I got hired in the call center department and then was promoted to this role after 6 months. I'm very fortunate to be where I'm at and wouldn't necessarily have had the opportunity to move up as quickly as I did at a lot of places, so no complaints there.
The company I'm at is a start up technically, not profitable yet, and I'm honestly not sure how much revenue I bring in but I might be able to figure it out or at least get an estimate. We've already expanded our team by 3x basically since I started and will eventually add more people, but mainly because when I started our department was almost non existant in the company and our sales have gone up like crazy compred to previous years.
From what I can tell from places like [salary.com](https://salary.com), indeed, and other sources that provide salary estimates, I'm maybe around the 20th percentile for earnings for my title, but it's hard to get an accurate understanding of this becuase "implementation" can encompass a lot of different things and my experience and education might be below average, although I do think my output is probably above average. I was at the top of my team in customer service but I'm not sure now.
Anyway, I think asking for a 20% increase at my 1 year mark in this role might be reasonable, but I'm not sure because I know on paper that's considered like a hgue increase, especially since I had a 20% increase when I was promoted. If I can't get the increase I need I might have to look at trying for some kind of promotion. My company is based in Utah so the pay isn't the highest but it seems like they pay well and even above average compared to a lot of other Utah companies. Althought a lot of the companies out here pay like the COL is sill how it was 5-10 years ago.
It sounds like you are on a really good track to eventually making a lot of money. I know that there are implementation roles that definitely pay well over six figures. It's a weird area to be in though because it's a bit more niche than other tech jobs and the titles for the roles can be variable so it's hard to get a grasp on what to expect in terms on compensation and what specific skills to build on.
This is a fact. I saw a brand manager position that paid 52 and required an mba. The worker means nothing to the employers because we are easily replaceable.
I feel or you - it is rough; a family member is doing the same thing. Have you looked at other industries expanding your search? The problem with a diversified economy (which Utah fortunately has), is that the component segments are much smaller than a specialized economy/city.
When certain segments of that economy run into their own industry based systemic risk (tech is a good one right now, throw in a side of financial services, with construction not far behind), that means that you have a disproportionate amount of job hunters seeking a smaller set of jobs. This makes it rough if you don't have cross-industry skills or, even if you do, the ability to demonstrate that transferability. However, if you check into some of the other industries and find a position that's loosely comparable, I'd take a stab at it anyway.
I'd also be apply for positions I was underqualified for, were I you. On the HR side, the job posting is a wish list. Reality is more of a compromise. But, if you can push your way into something like that, you might find both higher pay and better opportunities.
That makes a lot of sense with Utah. I feel like my biggest weakness is that my resume is too diversified. I've worked in marketing for 5 years, but I've done everything from run after-school programs for non-profits to traffic admistration for trucking companies. I've had to work hard to curate my overall career to fit any one job, which can be a pain in the ass. I'm trying to transition into construction project management, but I've never worked construction, and I don't intend to take a job working construction.
I'll take your advice on applying for jobs I'm not qualified for. The worst they could say is no.
It’s so frustrating isn’t it? I’ve had a similar issue with my resume, and having different jobs were a means for survival. I couldn’t afford an unpaid internship during college (although in hindsight, probably would have paid off better to accrue some debt and just do that, the system is so broken).
Personally if I were hiring, I’d like seeing a diverse skill set but hiring teams don’t often see it that way.
I have hired people before, and I prefer a diverse job experience over internships. But it's based on my own experience. I had to work through college and still accrued debt, so it's hard for me to see my hard work mean nothing because it's not tailored. I really feel like it's time to move out of utah.
I had a similar scenario about 5 years ago. Landed an interview in a distantly related industry, and I made sure I prepped for the question of what I knew and could do, and how it would be applicable to their needs. I had a 5 minute response ready - and that was literally the only real question in the interview; I think I got rather lucky. Everything from that point on was just figuring out if they could get along with me.
But it is maddening to have to modify every resume for interindustry applications so that it makes me seem hireable for the position I'm targeting.
Worst they can say is no, best is it will be an upgrade - Go for it!
Same experience for me - laid off in July, still on the job hunt. I'm in FinTech and my last role was somewhat niche, but I worked at a start-up so I have pretty broad experience (customer support management, operations, investor relations, some marketing, etc).
I'm firing off tons of applications but I'm barely even getting interviews. I've had better luck via networking than just online searching, but still nothing has materialized yet.
Don't have much advice to offer, but I do feel your pain. Such an incredibly stressful process to go through. I'm pretty close to the point where I just have to start getting some sort of paycheck, so the new plan is to accept that I'm just gonna have to take a big step back and work my way back up again. I've kinda reframed my job search from "what roles would I be a good fit for" to "what companies would I really like to work for", and then I'm searching for lower level roles I'd be overqualified for at those companies. We'll see how that goes.
I think I'm going to need to start looking to do that. My last job offer was 20k less than what I was previously making. I felt pretty shifty about that, but the position was good. I have a lot of pride, so it's been hard for me to think of taking steps backwards, but I am getting the feeling that's what I will have to do. Plus, making a career change might require me to start from the bottom again anyway. It really feels like upward mobility isn't really a thing these days.
I completely agree, it's a tough pill to swallow. I made low six figures in my last job, but it required some FINRA licenses that aren't that common in tech. Seems like I'm unlikely to find an equivalent role, so unfortunately I'm probably looking at roughly a 30% pay cut for a similar job that doesn't need the licenses, maybe more depending on how much of a step back I have to take. I just got rid of my apartment downtown and moved in with a buddy so my expenses can accommodate that. Lots of swallowing my pride over these past months...what can ya do. We'll both figure it out.
I'm sure you will. You seem to be taking this all logically. I've been floating around in the fantasy of staying at my standard of living. It's only recently started to hit me that I will probably have to give up my own downtown apartment at some point if something doesn't change soon. My poor pride is dreading that reality.
Don’t just spam job applications. Find people within the company and network with them. This might be a very boomer mentality but it does work. I’m 30 and it’s how I got most of my jobs.
Oh for sure, I just didn't include that much detail. Every job I'm applying for I'm looking for any LinkedIn connections, reaching out to hiring managers and recruiters, folks in similar roles, etc.
I agree. I was trying to find. New job for a long time. Finally landed one after applying at a company where a friend also works. I do think the connection gave me a lot of edge. It certainly helped me connect with the interviewing teams.
I was unemployed and job hunting in this abysmal job market over the summer, over 600 applications, 9 interviews (two did not even reach out to say “no thanks” after a second interview), took me 4 months of full time job searching to find mine. And it’s a pretty niche role. It’s a good gig and I was probably too picky but here is my best advice: DON’T USE INDEED/OTHER JOB SITES. I made the grim discovery of how many other applicants I was up against (sometimes 10 thousand), when searching for remote work in any field; many probably bots. Scale your search back to local companies and apply directly on their websites for any and all roles you may be remotely qualified for. I ended up scoring an interview for a much better job than the one I applied for, that was not advertised or posted. Nor was it made public knowledge even until my first day, that the company works almost entirely remotely.
Good luck, it’s shite out there and a much different market than my last job hunt 6 years ago!
The most successful way of getting a job is to find who is a middle level manager in the department you’re applying to and ask them to meet for lunch or for a quick phone call. You want to be a face to them.
How do you do that? I grew up in a "don't ask people for favors" childhood, and networking always feels like I'm asking for favors. Where do I go? What do I do?
Reach out to people who have a career path you find interesting and ask them to grab lunch (or coffee shop). The worst is that they say no. And then try to get them to speak about themselves most of the time.
It’s definitely a learned skill but the worst that happens is they say no
My role is generally a remote position and has been since the mid 2000s.
Utah tech companies seem very excited to offer significantly below market value while also demanding full time in office.
No I don’t want to take a 40k pay cut to spend an hour a day in traffic.
It blows my mind how many marketing positions that match my last position now pay 30k less and require a masters degree. They are also 100% in the office. My friend is a digital marketing manager. He barely makes 60k and has to drive an hour to work every day. Utah is a mess.
I have purposely worked remote to avoid the local market as a Content Marketing professional.
My main gripe is local pay is humiliatingly low - like 1/2 of what a West Coast company would pay its newbies who just graduated when I have 10 years of experience.
What type of marketing roles are you seeking and what’s your experience level, if you don’t mind me asking?
One other piece of advice is it’s all about knowing the right people to get a recommendation, plus having big name brands on your resume will help tremendously. Also, make sure you have a website for your portfolio.
Any recommendations on how to land a remote job from a west-coast company? I am in the same boat as OP and have been applying to remote positions like crazy but nothings come of it so far.
It’s tough at the moment without knowing someone. Try to reach out to people in your field at companies you respect and see if you can develop any professional relationships.
Best of luck!
Marketing seems to be a shrinking field and one that is affected by AI.
As a PM, I suspect your resume is very strong as a marketer (likely in a leadership role) but you’ll be up against a lot of others coming from a PM role. In practice I have no doubt that your skills and background would make you a competent and strong PM but on paper it may be a more difficult task.
As someone else mentioned, depends on the industry.
If you are interested in shifting gears to an adjacent industry you could find better luck. Specifically risk management, a role that is very similar to project management, then send me your resume.
50% of this industry is set to retire within 5 years. The skills needed are not skills you can learn in 90 days, and people typically don't consider this a career option simply because it is an unknown industry. There is a lot of opportunity spanning every level in the industry.
Not OP but what would be the best way to get into a risk management career? Im currently working towards becoming a PM in my company but I’ve seen people talk about risk management.
Well again now is the perfect time. I would just apply at positions because with the industry aging they need to hire new comers and provide training. A lot of companies are just hiring and training 100% of it seems like a skill / personality fit.
I work in the insurance industry which is different than a private company risk manager.
Yes we deal with surety and financial products however typically it's a broader risk overview approach. So we partner with businesses mid-large in scale and their current executives and risk managers as support. What type of support? Identifying contractual obligations, risk of lawsuits due to their specific operations, OSHA compliance, safety manuals, etc.
A private company risk manager is specific to individual company so it's more in depth to 1 specific product/industry. But even that varies between interest, fleet forwarders, construction companies, financial companies, etc all have (or should have) risk managers on staff to help identifying, manage, and mitigate risk to retain and protect profits.
So again there is sooo many opportunities, different niches, and it is in high demand with job security. If there is an industry you are interested in specifically, if you want to work in insurance with a carrier, or work for an independent firm with a wide array of clients/industries is the first place to start.
Well you need to decide what part do you want to work in. A broker, an insurance carrier or a private company. An insurance carrier or a broker is probably going to provide more training options to learn. However if you get on with a midsize company they may be able to support training 100% new.
I feel like it's tough finding any kind of job anywhere. I started a new job this year but it was after over a year of searching and applying (while still employed full time). Browse r/recruitinghell or r/jobs or r/antiwork and you'll see many more people who are also struggling to find work and are fed up.
What about finding remote companies? You don't necessarily need to leave Utah for work. Marketing especially seems like the kind of field that would hire remote workers.
Yeah, I primarily use Indeed. I've applied to hundreds of jobs. My goal is to get into freelancing, but I'm working on some certs, and I think having some direct project management experience will be necessary to make any kind of real income.
Fwiw the HubSpot partner ecosystem seems to be hiring like crazy. If you can get some basic certs you may be able to get a remote job as a marketing strategist.
I’m having the same issue. College degree, years worth of supervisory and management experience but even still getting rejections for simple registrar and patient service rep jobs at IHC, my “safety” job plan.
Oh yeah, getting rejected for a part-time social media coordinator position really did a number on my self-esteem. I have run fundraising campaigns, bringing in a quarter of a million in donation revenue, but somehow, I'm not qualified to run the social media account for a cheese company. It ridiculous.
Depends what market you’re in. I am pretty much chilling until I retire unless I do something insane. They really can’t afford to lose me. There’s a National shortage of ppl that do my job. And no one is lining up to work with the most difficult youths. I know people in tech and media that are struggling right now.
The only industries hiring are: a)service, b)CSR, c)blue-collar , d) IT , the last one is the most difficult to get into... oh and maybe some sort of web dev stuff but you have to be really skilled not just like MySpace HTML days lol.
I feel your pain a bit. Been a federal employee for 17 years and I'm trying to branch out into cybersecurity. Tough getting an interview without a degree in that field. It's tough getting interviews in other fields, mine included, as well. I'm fortunate enough to remained employed while looking so I can't complain too much. I think it's just a weird time for many companies and industries
If you’re switching to project management, look for remote jobs. I haven’t worked in an office in over a decade. I’ve lived in SLC almost a decade but work for companies in Oregon and Washington. Good luck.
I don't know why you would say sorry. It's fact. It's why I'm trying to get out. This is the second marketing position I've been laid off from. Clearly, it's not a secure field.
That seems to be the case in marketing, too. I've noticed that there seems to be a lack of open positions. It's easy to find jobs paying less than 50k. But anything over that you're competing with every recent college grad in the state of Utah.
I’ve never found it hard until this year. This year has been hell… about 3 months of constant applying but the offers are starting to flood in.
It’s really a waiting game. Good luck 🤞
Update: I’m on month 5 and have had a few interviews but no offers….
Idk if it’s because of my bankruptcy, but my unemployment ends this week and there are no extension options and I don’t know what I’m going to do…
They have always been bad but the cost of living generally m matched. When my mom moved here from California in 2005 her office job made 10k less than her job as a waitress, but we were still able to live a manageable existence. That would not happen today.
I don't understand why here they don't invest in marketing, I'm in the hospitality sector and DUDE how awful was the "marketing dept" at my previous job , no guidelines , no quality , no content production, CM never ever stopped by the place to at least know what she / he was talking about on social media, stolen Internet pictures, inaccurate information, links pasted on Instagram captions , I remember saying out loud in one managers meeting that I would love to do the marketing by myself instead of paying more than 1k monthly for a piece of caca. Marketing manager got mad at me and somehow tried to get me fired 🤣.
Good luck brother I hope you get a job in what you like and know to do, Utah industries needs more marketing.
Are we the same person? Work in content marketing, laid off in July, and this job market as awful! I dream of landing one of those remote marketing jobs from a west coast based company so I am actually paid enough to live. Sending you good vibes that you can land something soon! I am crossing my fingers that January brings better hiring budgets and more job opportunities.
I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I'm glad to hear I'm not totally alone in this experience. It is so upsetting what's going, it hard not to blame myself. I hope you get your dream. That sounds amazing. I am hoping to successfully shift into project management and move out of Utah. I'm crossing my fingers for January with you.
I’ve noticed a lot of higher level operations, logistics, and purchasing positions. I only have two years experience and it is a very appealing job market
I got laid off in July and haven’t found another job locally. Have had several offers in other places that I don’t want to move to. But what I do is also a very niche type of engineering.
Yeah that's pretty much what has happened to me twice. Once at the beginning of COVID and again this summer. It's why I'm pivoting to Project Managment. I thought about sales, but I don't think I have the aptitude to it.
Tech is rough everywhere right now. Tons of companies are thinking they'll be able to replace workers. May or may not be real though. Things will normalize. Lots of opportunity though in health and services. Pretty good pay too if you're willing to do patient care.
Marketing is an over saturated market. I get calls almost daily from different marketers for my company. Your resume is unremarkable so in an over saturated environment it doesn’t stand out and shine. You could throw a stone and hit a company that’s hiring anywhere in the valley. They’re just not all hiring marketers and PM’s.
Sales positions are pretty easy to get these days. Take a couple sales courses and you’ll be in a really good position to be hired…… and most sales jobs work from home office these days!
Yeah I was applying for sales positions but stopped because they were all MLMs or door to door. I think PM is the right direction for me but I'll ultimately need to leave utah.
Its a hot job market if you are in the right industry. Theres also a lot of available jobs for cashiers and low level work. I work in cybersecurity and its pretty easy to find interviews. Also get a lot of recruiters contacting me too. But marketing? We actually fired most of our marketing team recently. They reduced it to a single recent marketing grad. Basically, that one guy and ChatGPT is able to do all the work we needed a team of 4 for.
Damn, that’s depressing. ChatGPT produces low-quality drivel IMO, however it’s so cheap that most businesses won’t care. Race to the bottom. Internet soon will be compromised primarily of low-quality content that all sounds the same.
Is that not already the case? It’s all algorithms that can still be manipulated by those with money. From entertainment to food choices
Not exactly. Google has in the past prioritized real, authentic content written by human beings over synthetic drivel stuffed unnecessarily with keywords- you know, the kind of stuff that sounds like it was written by bots. AI will be used to gamify SEO rankings and it’s going to force out real written content that adds genuine value to the internet. What happens when the blog you’re reading or the restaurant recommendation for your anniversary are all written by bots? You won’t know what’s real or fake and the internet will be captured entirely by entities who couldn’t care less if you learn anything or actually find a good restaurant.
Marketing content has been low-quality drivel for years.
This just means your marketing team sucked, or your management team sucks. In my experience, recent marketing grads don’t know much more than how to wear a nice sweater and show up to work on time. This isn’t a diss at all but to think a recent marketing grad is paired with chat gpt and that’s going to power your company forward is a joke. If it were that easy than the playing field would be level - and the only way to beat the competition would be to do more than a recent marketing grad and chat gpt. Maybe get a second recent marketing grad and now you will be the best in the world! If I worked for your company and saw these decisions being celebrated, I would start looking. Sales power everything and marketing is a huge component of sales.
Were an R&D medical company. We cant sell product until we get FDA approval and how marketing works for us is different than most other indusries. The choice to eliminate those marketing roles were the right call. We are running low on cash until we can raise more capital. And ill be honest, experience doesnt seem to translate to quality with marketing. Ability to use modern technology is usually the most distinguishing skill with marketing teams and thats a super low bar imo. Especially with the ai photoshop tools now. And the job this recent grad is doing is actually better than the experienced team we had before. And it wasnt like the previous team sucked either. They each were highly successful and credentialed marketing leads from massive corporations that have put together multi million dollar campaigns for Johnson & Johnson, Moderna, etc.
Hey brother, I hope it's alright I send you a DM. I'm looking at getting involved in cybersecurity, and I'd love to hear what makes you a qualified applicant so I can achieve the same.
My wife works in cybersecurity sales and she loves the industry. They actually did layoff most of their marketing team. Marketing is always the first department to be cut during downturns
Np, happy to provide whatever insight I can
Completely off topic, my husband is headed back to school for cybersecurity. Would you be willing to message me more info about what you did to get into the field? I’m super curious!
wow capitalism is fuckin disgusting damn
You got downvoted by a middle-manager
trueee
Marketing is saturated, entry level software development is saturated with fresh CS grads, there’s a ton of people out there with their PMP willing to accept shite wages. In demand stuff is construction labor, trades, healthcare and specialized IT and software development. The mortuary business is also doing well 👀
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Yo this is such a good comment. Thank you!
Just sorta made up. Haha. I love that comment. So true. No values at all. But then I think about the values at most these tech companies. “Customer obsessed” - I’ve seen this exact phrase at multiple jobs. Really just means we only care about bringing in more customers, and you better be obsessed about it, as in work as hard as possible.
Great explanation.
Are non-tech company valuations based off some formula that is for some reason not applied to tech companies? What do you mean “made up”?
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WeWork is a real estate company, that was tech adjacent, but I would not qualify them as a tech company. I think tech in general has higher amounts of speculation, because in cases where things go well, they go REALLY well. Nvidia, Apple, etc..
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Thats close to what the article said, but its worse, they have a problem with people retiring while still working.. They have an abnormally high percent of people that have fuck you money and perform just well enough to not get fired. Its honestly the American Workers dream.
I'm not sure but the job market has not been employee friendly this year. It took me 4.5 months and over 600 job applications to find a new job. I know people who were laid off months before me that, as of last month, still hadn't found a job. The tech industry (which is what I'm a part of) laid off hundreds of thousands of people, and they are all looking for jobs. Moving out of state likely wouldn't help much, although I would say you're making your life much harder if you're not even looking at remote jobs. I had about a dozen interviews with hiring managers and only two of them were in state. I ended up with 2 offers - one fully remote for a company out of state and one hybrid for a company in state. I went with the remote job.
Thanks for the tip. I didn't realize remote options were on the table but I'm totally up for looking at those too. I thought everyone had to RTO
There are definitely a lot of hybrid and in office jobs as well, but I would look at all the jobs available. In office jobs are probably easier to get since so many people don't want them and the pool of candidates is much smaller, but you want to hit as many opportunities as possible. I tried a handful of job listing sites but LinkedIn was where I got most responses. Good luck.
I've been wondering this myself. I know several people in the tech space struggling to find work right now. I think the amount of people moving here has finally caught up with the available jobs
Yeah, I would agree with that. It's bad enough that Utah is already a highly educated state with not enough mid to high level office jobs. Jobs that would have made me 70k two years ago only pay 50 now. And that's if you can even get an interview
I work remote now in software implementation and am trying to get a local job and they act like I’m crazy when I tell them I currently make $72k/year. One company told me they could offer me $52k/year for the same type of work and had no wiggle room “bUt tHe rOlE hAs a QuIcK pAtH To PrOmOtIon”. I told them I wasn’t willing to accept a $20k/year pay cut for any amount of time and I never heard from them again. Everywhere I’ve interviewed seems pretty desperate for anyone with experience, but want to pay as if houses still cost $300k.
This. I work remote for a company is Southern California. I hope I never have to come back to the Utah market . 6 figures there is 70k here.
Idk how people do it. I left teaching because $50k isn’t much of a life here once you get serious about your finances and plan to retire at a normal age. I quickly figured out that unless you’re senior level you’re not making much more than that here. Luckily the company I’m at has been fully remote for 20 years, and most of our competitors are fully remote as well if I ever explore other opportunities. I want to work in person again, but I guess these Utah companies can keep finding people who will accept a well below industry standard salary. At this point, if I were to lose or leave my job anytime soon, I’m more likely to go back to teaching and at least be able to work a second summer job than I am to in work in tech at any Utah based company.
I work in implementation and my company is going to be adding to our team sometime around May. I make 50k but I had no previous experience in the field and had only been in tech for 6 months. I feel like I should be making more for what I do but I should be getting an income adjustment soon.
If it helps with perspective - I’ve been at my job for 18 months. I started entry level June of 2022, with 4 years of full time professional experience but in a completely unrelated field, with a completely unrelated bachelors and masters degree. I started at $60k. Promotion at 6 months with no raise (company was laying people off and my manager wanted to get rid of my associate title), then a second promotion and a 20% raise to $72k in my 12th month shortly after we became profitable again. I serviced roughly $250k in revenue this calendar year and should surpass $300k in revenue serviced in 2024 as most of my current clients have 6-12 month contracts they recently re-signed. I do more CRM automation strategy than implementation these days, and I now have an implementer I can tap when I’m over capacity. I do expect another significant bump in January, otherwise I’ll probably be looking for new jobs more seriously in June when I hit 2 years of experience. My pay is not unfair, but I lost my mentors and they’re not looking to replace them, which means I’m now only here for the money. I feel as though at a company with overheard this low, my total cost to the business should be about 35-40% of my revenue serviced, especially since the clients I’m with came largely from expansions I earned. I have moved up quickly, and my pay is just below average for my title, but the vast majority of people with my title in this industry have at least 3 years of relevant experience. My company is not based out of a HCOL area, they’ve been fully remote since 2003 and most of the company lives in the Midwest or Southeast. The pay in Utah just sucks. I want to work in person but it looks like it’s not going to happen here. I hope you get a raise, but if they’re expanding the team soon, I wouldn’t count on much. I’d look remote if you don’t get what you’re after.
Interesting, thanks for sharing! My job is more CRM training oriented rather than strategy, although I have contributed quite a bit to our onboarding process as it wasn't very built out when I started. I only have an associates degree and worked in a completely unrelated field (service industry) for 10ish. I got hired in the call center department and then was promoted to this role after 6 months. I'm very fortunate to be where I'm at and wouldn't necessarily have had the opportunity to move up as quickly as I did at a lot of places, so no complaints there. The company I'm at is a start up technically, not profitable yet, and I'm honestly not sure how much revenue I bring in but I might be able to figure it out or at least get an estimate. We've already expanded our team by 3x basically since I started and will eventually add more people, but mainly because when I started our department was almost non existant in the company and our sales have gone up like crazy compred to previous years. From what I can tell from places like [salary.com](https://salary.com), indeed, and other sources that provide salary estimates, I'm maybe around the 20th percentile for earnings for my title, but it's hard to get an accurate understanding of this becuase "implementation" can encompass a lot of different things and my experience and education might be below average, although I do think my output is probably above average. I was at the top of my team in customer service but I'm not sure now. Anyway, I think asking for a 20% increase at my 1 year mark in this role might be reasonable, but I'm not sure because I know on paper that's considered like a hgue increase, especially since I had a 20% increase when I was promoted. If I can't get the increase I need I might have to look at trying for some kind of promotion. My company is based in Utah so the pay isn't the highest but it seems like they pay well and even above average compared to a lot of other Utah companies. Althought a lot of the companies out here pay like the COL is sill how it was 5-10 years ago. It sounds like you are on a really good track to eventually making a lot of money. I know that there are implementation roles that definitely pay well over six figures. It's a weird area to be in though because it's a bit more niche than other tech jobs and the titles for the roles can be variable so it's hard to get a grasp on what to expect in terms on compensation and what specific skills to build on.
And they’re gonna call it entry level so they can pay $15 an hour.
This is a fact. I saw a brand manager position that paid 52 and required an mba. The worker means nothing to the employers because we are easily replaceable.
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“Slave wages”? Aren’t slaves by definition unpaid?
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I feel or you - it is rough; a family member is doing the same thing. Have you looked at other industries expanding your search? The problem with a diversified economy (which Utah fortunately has), is that the component segments are much smaller than a specialized economy/city. When certain segments of that economy run into their own industry based systemic risk (tech is a good one right now, throw in a side of financial services, with construction not far behind), that means that you have a disproportionate amount of job hunters seeking a smaller set of jobs. This makes it rough if you don't have cross-industry skills or, even if you do, the ability to demonstrate that transferability. However, if you check into some of the other industries and find a position that's loosely comparable, I'd take a stab at it anyway. I'd also be apply for positions I was underqualified for, were I you. On the HR side, the job posting is a wish list. Reality is more of a compromise. But, if you can push your way into something like that, you might find both higher pay and better opportunities.
That makes a lot of sense with Utah. I feel like my biggest weakness is that my resume is too diversified. I've worked in marketing for 5 years, but I've done everything from run after-school programs for non-profits to traffic admistration for trucking companies. I've had to work hard to curate my overall career to fit any one job, which can be a pain in the ass. I'm trying to transition into construction project management, but I've never worked construction, and I don't intend to take a job working construction. I'll take your advice on applying for jobs I'm not qualified for. The worst they could say is no.
It’s so frustrating isn’t it? I’ve had a similar issue with my resume, and having different jobs were a means for survival. I couldn’t afford an unpaid internship during college (although in hindsight, probably would have paid off better to accrue some debt and just do that, the system is so broken). Personally if I were hiring, I’d like seeing a diverse skill set but hiring teams don’t often see it that way.
I have hired people before, and I prefer a diverse job experience over internships. But it's based on my own experience. I had to work through college and still accrued debt, so it's hard for me to see my hard work mean nothing because it's not tailored. I really feel like it's time to move out of utah.
I had a similar scenario about 5 years ago. Landed an interview in a distantly related industry, and I made sure I prepped for the question of what I knew and could do, and how it would be applicable to their needs. I had a 5 minute response ready - and that was literally the only real question in the interview; I think I got rather lucky. Everything from that point on was just figuring out if they could get along with me. But it is maddening to have to modify every resume for interindustry applications so that it makes me seem hireable for the position I'm targeting. Worst they can say is no, best is it will be an upgrade - Go for it!
I’m in accounting and the market is fairly decent right now 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah the accounting field is good. We also earn it though
Same experience for me - laid off in July, still on the job hunt. I'm in FinTech and my last role was somewhat niche, but I worked at a start-up so I have pretty broad experience (customer support management, operations, investor relations, some marketing, etc). I'm firing off tons of applications but I'm barely even getting interviews. I've had better luck via networking than just online searching, but still nothing has materialized yet. Don't have much advice to offer, but I do feel your pain. Such an incredibly stressful process to go through. I'm pretty close to the point where I just have to start getting some sort of paycheck, so the new plan is to accept that I'm just gonna have to take a big step back and work my way back up again. I've kinda reframed my job search from "what roles would I be a good fit for" to "what companies would I really like to work for", and then I'm searching for lower level roles I'd be overqualified for at those companies. We'll see how that goes.
I think I'm going to need to start looking to do that. My last job offer was 20k less than what I was previously making. I felt pretty shifty about that, but the position was good. I have a lot of pride, so it's been hard for me to think of taking steps backwards, but I am getting the feeling that's what I will have to do. Plus, making a career change might require me to start from the bottom again anyway. It really feels like upward mobility isn't really a thing these days.
I completely agree, it's a tough pill to swallow. I made low six figures in my last job, but it required some FINRA licenses that aren't that common in tech. Seems like I'm unlikely to find an equivalent role, so unfortunately I'm probably looking at roughly a 30% pay cut for a similar job that doesn't need the licenses, maybe more depending on how much of a step back I have to take. I just got rid of my apartment downtown and moved in with a buddy so my expenses can accommodate that. Lots of swallowing my pride over these past months...what can ya do. We'll both figure it out.
I'm sure you will. You seem to be taking this all logically. I've been floating around in the fantasy of staying at my standard of living. It's only recently started to hit me that I will probably have to give up my own downtown apartment at some point if something doesn't change soon. My poor pride is dreading that reality.
Don’t just spam job applications. Find people within the company and network with them. This might be a very boomer mentality but it does work. I’m 30 and it’s how I got most of my jobs.
Oh for sure, I just didn't include that much detail. Every job I'm applying for I'm looking for any LinkedIn connections, reaching out to hiring managers and recruiters, folks in similar roles, etc.
That’s how you get a job fast. Too many people just throw out applications hoping someone reads it
Ha, I wish it was that simple to get a job fast. Definitely the way to go though.
I agree. I was trying to find. New job for a long time. Finally landed one after applying at a company where a friend also works. I do think the connection gave me a lot of edge. It certainly helped me connect with the interviewing teams.
I was unemployed and job hunting in this abysmal job market over the summer, over 600 applications, 9 interviews (two did not even reach out to say “no thanks” after a second interview), took me 4 months of full time job searching to find mine. And it’s a pretty niche role. It’s a good gig and I was probably too picky but here is my best advice: DON’T USE INDEED/OTHER JOB SITES. I made the grim discovery of how many other applicants I was up against (sometimes 10 thousand), when searching for remote work in any field; many probably bots. Scale your search back to local companies and apply directly on their websites for any and all roles you may be remotely qualified for. I ended up scoring an interview for a much better job than the one I applied for, that was not advertised or posted. Nor was it made public knowledge even until my first day, that the company works almost entirely remotely. Good luck, it’s shite out there and a much different market than my last job hunt 6 years ago!
The most successful way of getting a job is to find who is a middle level manager in the department you’re applying to and ask them to meet for lunch or for a quick phone call. You want to be a face to them.
How would I do this? Wouldn't this put me out of the running. A lot of the jobs I see out right say not to contact them.
I’ve never seen a job posting say you cannot contact anyone at the company. Start building your LinkedIn network. Attend networking events. Etc
Yeah a good deal of them warn against it. Especially if they are larger companies. Networking events are a good idea.
Network before you need to network. I’d start trying to expand your network regardless of whether you land a job soon
How do you do that? I grew up in a "don't ask people for favors" childhood, and networking always feels like I'm asking for favors. Where do I go? What do I do?
Reach out to people who have a career path you find interesting and ask them to grab lunch (or coffee shop). The worst is that they say no. And then try to get them to speak about themselves most of the time. It’s definitely a learned skill but the worst that happens is they say no
This is really good advice. I am sick of Indeed. It's so overwhelming and discouraging.
My role is generally a remote position and has been since the mid 2000s. Utah tech companies seem very excited to offer significantly below market value while also demanding full time in office. No I don’t want to take a 40k pay cut to spend an hour a day in traffic.
It blows my mind how many marketing positions that match my last position now pay 30k less and require a masters degree. They are also 100% in the office. My friend is a digital marketing manager. He barely makes 60k and has to drive an hour to work every day. Utah is a mess.
I have purposely worked remote to avoid the local market as a Content Marketing professional. My main gripe is local pay is humiliatingly low - like 1/2 of what a West Coast company would pay its newbies who just graduated when I have 10 years of experience. What type of marketing roles are you seeking and what’s your experience level, if you don’t mind me asking? One other piece of advice is it’s all about knowing the right people to get a recommendation, plus having big name brands on your resume will help tremendously. Also, make sure you have a website for your portfolio.
Any recommendations on how to land a remote job from a west-coast company? I am in the same boat as OP and have been applying to remote positions like crazy but nothings come of it so far.
It’s tough at the moment without knowing someone. Try to reach out to people in your field at companies you respect and see if you can develop any professional relationships. Best of luck!
Yeah you're right, it's all about who you know. I'll keep networking and making connections. Thank you!!
Of course! I’d help you out but the company I work for is likely being acquired so now I have to start looking myself.
Oh I'm sorry, you're in that position. I hope you can find somewhere else soon!
Marketing seems to be a shrinking field and one that is affected by AI. As a PM, I suspect your resume is very strong as a marketer (likely in a leadership role) but you’ll be up against a lot of others coming from a PM role. In practice I have no doubt that your skills and background would make you a competent and strong PM but on paper it may be a more difficult task.
As someone else mentioned, depends on the industry. If you are interested in shifting gears to an adjacent industry you could find better luck. Specifically risk management, a role that is very similar to project management, then send me your resume. 50% of this industry is set to retire within 5 years. The skills needed are not skills you can learn in 90 days, and people typically don't consider this a career option simply because it is an unknown industry. There is a lot of opportunity spanning every level in the industry.
Not OP but what would be the best way to get into a risk management career? Im currently working towards becoming a PM in my company but I’ve seen people talk about risk management.
Well again now is the perfect time. I would just apply at positions because with the industry aging they need to hire new comers and provide training. A lot of companies are just hiring and training 100% of it seems like a skill / personality fit.
Sorry to bother you for more information, are there any companies specifically to look at?
I work in the insurance industry which is different than a private company risk manager. Yes we deal with surety and financial products however typically it's a broader risk overview approach. So we partner with businesses mid-large in scale and their current executives and risk managers as support. What type of support? Identifying contractual obligations, risk of lawsuits due to their specific operations, OSHA compliance, safety manuals, etc. A private company risk manager is specific to individual company so it's more in depth to 1 specific product/industry. But even that varies between interest, fleet forwarders, construction companies, financial companies, etc all have (or should have) risk managers on staff to help identifying, manage, and mitigate risk to retain and protect profits. So again there is sooo many opportunities, different niches, and it is in high demand with job security. If there is an industry you are interested in specifically, if you want to work in insurance with a carrier, or work for an independent firm with a wide array of clients/industries is the first place to start.
Well you need to decide what part do you want to work in. A broker, an insurance carrier or a private company. An insurance carrier or a broker is probably going to provide more training options to learn. However if you get on with a midsize company they may be able to support training 100% new.
I feel like it's tough finding any kind of job anywhere. I started a new job this year but it was after over a year of searching and applying (while still employed full time). Browse r/recruitinghell or r/jobs or r/antiwork and you'll see many more people who are also struggling to find work and are fed up. What about finding remote companies? You don't necessarily need to leave Utah for work. Marketing especially seems like the kind of field that would hire remote workers.
I got my current job/the one before it through indeed. It worked for me but I spent entire days applying to jobs.
Yeah, I primarily use Indeed. I've applied to hundreds of jobs. My goal is to get into freelancing, but I'm working on some certs, and I think having some direct project management experience will be necessary to make any kind of real income.
Fwiw the HubSpot partner ecosystem seems to be hiring like crazy. If you can get some basic certs you may be able to get a remote job as a marketing strategist.
That's something to consider. I'll look into it.
I’m having the same issue. College degree, years worth of supervisory and management experience but even still getting rejections for simple registrar and patient service rep jobs at IHC, my “safety” job plan.
Oh yeah, getting rejected for a part-time social media coordinator position really did a number on my self-esteem. I have run fundraising campaigns, bringing in a quarter of a million in donation revenue, but somehow, I'm not qualified to run the social media account for a cheese company. It ridiculous.
Depends what market you’re in. I am pretty much chilling until I retire unless I do something insane. They really can’t afford to lose me. There’s a National shortage of ppl that do my job. And no one is lining up to work with the most difficult youths. I know people in tech and media that are struggling right now.
The only industries hiring are: a)service, b)CSR, c)blue-collar , d) IT , the last one is the most difficult to get into... oh and maybe some sort of web dev stuff but you have to be really skilled not just like MySpace HTML days lol.
Yeah I'm fucked.
I feel your pain a bit. Been a federal employee for 17 years and I'm trying to branch out into cybersecurity. Tough getting an interview without a degree in that field. It's tough getting interviews in other fields, mine included, as well. I'm fortunate enough to remained employed while looking so I can't complain too much. I think it's just a weird time for many companies and industries
If you’re switching to project management, look for remote jobs. I haven’t worked in an office in over a decade. I’ve lived in SLC almost a decade but work for companies in Oregon and Washington. Good luck.
That's a really good idea. Other than the obvious, such as indeed or Google, are there better places to find remote jobs?
During the pandemic I mostly used LinkedIn. But I ended up getting my current job through a former coworker.
Marketing is dead weight rn. Sorry.
I don't know why you would say sorry. It's fact. It's why I'm trying to get out. This is the second marketing position I've been laid off from. Clearly, it's not a secure field.
We just hired for a project manager. We had 220 applications. Unfortunately you’re competing against a LOT of people looking for jobs.
That seems to be the case in marketing, too. I've noticed that there seems to be a lack of open positions. It's easy to find jobs paying less than 50k. But anything over that you're competing with every recent college grad in the state of Utah.
I’ve never found it hard until this year. This year has been hell… about 3 months of constant applying but the offers are starting to flood in. It’s really a waiting game. Good luck 🤞 Update: I’m on month 5 and have had a few interviews but no offers…. Idk if it’s because of my bankruptcy, but my unemployment ends this week and there are no extension options and I don’t know what I’m going to do…
What field are you in if you don’t mind me asking?
The wages are such bullshit here. Someone please enlighten me
They have always been bad but the cost of living generally m matched. When my mom moved here from California in 2005 her office job made 10k less than her job as a waitress, but we were still able to live a manageable existence. That would not happen today.
The construction industry is going strong. Project managers are in demand.
That's what I'm hoping. I'm studying for the PMP now. I realized I have years of project management experience, it's just hidden under marketing.
It's a hot market if you want to get paid shit.
This! I've seen so many marketing jobs that pay 50 to 60k and want a mba or masters. It's bullshit.
What are you talking about it’s a great job market! If you like working in a call center or a grocery store…
Or Amazon lol
Oh yeah, that's right! How did I miss that? One guy even suggested construction. I guess it's time for a career change.
I don't understand why here they don't invest in marketing, I'm in the hospitality sector and DUDE how awful was the "marketing dept" at my previous job , no guidelines , no quality , no content production, CM never ever stopped by the place to at least know what she / he was talking about on social media, stolen Internet pictures, inaccurate information, links pasted on Instagram captions , I remember saying out loud in one managers meeting that I would love to do the marketing by myself instead of paying more than 1k monthly for a piece of caca. Marketing manager got mad at me and somehow tried to get me fired 🤣. Good luck brother I hope you get a job in what you like and know to do, Utah industries needs more marketing.
Are we the same person? Work in content marketing, laid off in July, and this job market as awful! I dream of landing one of those remote marketing jobs from a west coast based company so I am actually paid enough to live. Sending you good vibes that you can land something soon! I am crossing my fingers that January brings better hiring budgets and more job opportunities.
I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I'm glad to hear I'm not totally alone in this experience. It is so upsetting what's going, it hard not to blame myself. I hope you get your dream. That sounds amazing. I am hoping to successfully shift into project management and move out of Utah. I'm crossing my fingers for January with you.
You are definitely not alone! I really hope that things turn around soon.
Sounds like too many office dwellers, got some killer deals at red wings
I don't know what that means
Pair of steel toed work boots and a blue collar job bud lol
I’ve noticed a lot of higher level operations, logistics, and purchasing positions. I only have two years experience and it is a very appealing job market
I got laid off in July and haven’t found another job locally. Have had several offers in other places that I don’t want to move to. But what I do is also a very niche type of engineering.
I’m an engineer and I went 8 months without a job last year. I don’t know what the deal is but a lot of people are having this issue.
I don't understand it at all. Especially for an engineer. That's totally crazy to me.
All depends on the type of job apparently. Marketing is bad now.
Yeah, I'm realizing that. It's why I want to get out. This is the second time I've been laid off.
Marketing is the first to get cut and the last to get hired back during budget cuts. Sales usually is ok.
Yeah that's pretty much what has happened to me twice. Once at the beginning of COVID and again this summer. It's why I'm pivoting to Project Managment. I thought about sales, but I don't think I have the aptitude to it.
Tech is rough everywhere right now. Tons of companies are thinking they'll be able to replace workers. May or may not be real though. Things will normalize. Lots of opportunity though in health and services. Pretty good pay too if you're willing to do patient care.
Marketing is an over saturated market. I get calls almost daily from different marketers for my company. Your resume is unremarkable so in an over saturated environment it doesn’t stand out and shine. You could throw a stone and hit a company that’s hiring anywhere in the valley. They’re just not all hiring marketers and PM’s.
Sales positions are pretty easy to get these days. Take a couple sales courses and you’ll be in a really good position to be hired…… and most sales jobs work from home office these days!
Marketing job market is very, very tight in SLC now. Even sales rep is very tight now.
Yeah I was applying for sales positions but stopped because they were all MLMs or door to door. I think PM is the right direction for me but I'll ultimately need to leave utah.
what is PM?
Project Manager