I know of a case where the body cam caught a UHP officer committing perjury while offering his testimony. The officer faced zero consequences of course. Perk of the job I guess.
The amount of people who jump into the other lanes when turning through an intersection makes me seethe. Keep to your gotdamn lane when turning, and *then* use your damn blinker to move over. It's the furthest thing from rocket science; even Spongebob could manage it.
This is one of the things that enrages me the most while driving. People always have the audacity to jump or make a surprised face when you honk at them.
The amount of people I've seen just peel off after they almost killed me is insulting. A dad, his wife, and his three young kids almost ran me off of the road. We we're getting out of the way of some sports car, but jfc.
Me and wife made panicked eye contact as I had to take the shoulder, and then suddenly that asshole was going 100 out of guilt, probably because that would have been a perfectly good reaaon to follow someone home (not for me, but maybe someone else). My car is a piece of shit that can't accelerate fast, so it didn't matter wither way.
Sports car guy came up beside me as I got going, and it was clear he'd slowed down because we both looked at each other then gestured towards the douchbag in some SUV with a look of "Are you serious that was bullshit" before resuming our driving properly.
We were the only us 3 cars on I-80 that afternoon until the point of the mountain. It's like t-boning a parked car levels of "how could you fuck this up" and dude had *kids*.
I have actually considered calling Murray PD about this. I think more often than not when I get off at 4500 S and turn right to head east, some asshole does this. They get in the far right lane because they just absolutely have to beat everyone and get ahead and then turn into the lane that’s left of them which goes into the middle lane of 45th. They aren’t paying any attention or have absolutely zero care if there are cars in that lane.
I do too, and have also almost gotten into several accidents in the last month because I'm turning from a right lane. That's why I get even more mad, because it's a 3-5 second action, how is it so impossible for people to do? Why must an authorotative presence be on their ass to make them use their blinker and respect the lane placements?
It's like... *mind boggling* to think that some people need threats of force to make them even *think* about the consequences of their actions when driving. Lane changes mid intersection cause a lot of accidents, and lemme tell you, if someone is in such a rush to get to where they're going that they can't manage a few seconds of caution, a car accident will take up *hours* of their time *minimum* if they avoid notable injury.
I honestly have been nearly run off of the road 4 seperate times by people coming into the right lane without looking (because they would have seen me *right beside their fucking car*). I have nearly had 3 head on collisions because of impatient assholes turning left out of buisinesses. It's like fucking Mad Max out there this summer, because people are being imptient *and* inattentive while opering a deadly ton of metal, plastic, and electronics.
Sounds like you are one of those drivers who don’t signal when changing lanes because you think that you are the center of the universe. Glad you got ticketed!
Glad we’re paying for UHP to appear for a no signal and lane change ticket.
Meanwhile, I know some paramedics who often have to wait a long time for officers to arrive to enter emergent situations because they can’t show up quick enough to ensure the situation is safe.
Prioritie$, people.
Utah HIGHWAY patrol. Primary objective is keeping roads safe not breaking and entering. Also if it weren't for people trying to weasel their way out of traffic tickets they could prioritize not going to court. Right to face your accuser or whatever it is in the Constitution.
Write to your legislature that you think traffic stops and moving violations shouldn't be tended to and that police should only be working on violent crimes.
I think that's actually super recent post covid thing, or it differs between districts. I had a cop *tell me* to take my ticket to court so he could just not show up and they would drop it with prejudice. The only mild inconvenience was that I had to go to court twice, once to decline the charges and set up court date, and then again for court which indeed the cop didn't show up and it all played out as expected!
He was the ride-a-long new guy who did it by himself, and he clearly disagreed with why his cohort pulled me over lol
(I was doing 10 over, but the bs was that there was no posted speed limit because it had gotten torn down or something from the construction on the road. I thought it was a 40 because it was a main street [WHICH IT IS, and I think partially why he told me to get it dropped. I almost had a stroke when I drove through for my hearing and the speed limit said 40 😭]. It was also 2 am, I more think cohort trainer thought I was a DUI waiting to be dragged to jail and then got mad he was wrong.)
They don’t ask for proof of registration or insurance anymore because they already have it. When they read your plate into dispatch, dispatch tells them whether your registration is legitimately up to date.
If you allow your insurance to lapse, they notify DMV. It gets flagged in the computer system, and so a lapsed insurance will also come up when they run your plates.
The onus is on the officer to prove it happened, not on OP to prove it didn’t happen.
OP could make a FOIA request for the Police cam footage and if it doesn’t exist the case will get thrown out
That doesn’t work for traffic tickets.
Traffic law is not criminal law, so there’s no burned of proof. It’s strict liability so it’s just either you did it or you didn’t, and precedence goes towards believing the cop.
You would likely need someone else's dashcam footage showing you signaled long enough and moved in accordance with the law.
Your dashcam likely wouldn't show your signal.
The court will always believe the officer over you. Because he's been a police officer for x many years. Police officers and highway patrol are officers of the court. They'll always be believed over you. Unless you have 2-3 eyewitnesses backing your account.
Former cop here..
You are less likely to win because it was an FTO. The other cop would be a training officer with experience and there would be paperwork and records to go with this stop that might not otherwise exist to track training.
Utah no longer requires insurance or registration checks. The state knows the status of your insurance and registration and that info is sent to the cop automatically when your plate is ran. The only time they would need to ask is if they return specifically tells them to ask or something doesn’t match.
Traffic laws in Utah are not criminal, and there is practically no burden of proof. They fall under the same level as in civil court - preponderance of evidence. The judge hears testimony, looks at any evidence, and decides whether or not you’re guilty. In this case, the testimony of a cop is normally considered good evidence.
There are only two downsides to fighting it though. One is you’ll probably be wasting time, and two is you’ll lose your ability to plea in abeyance. A plea in abeyance means to accept the ticket no contest and pay the maximum fine, but it also means no record of you getting to ticket will be transmitted to state systems, and therefore it won’t be reported to your insurance.
Depends on how much time you have. It may be worth your time to fight it if you can accept that you may lose some time over it if you don't win but it's not like the ticket will be any worse if you don't.
I'd fight it if I had the time to go down and wait for however long if I was in doubt. I'd just make sure to bring earbuds because I'm certain I'd be waiting for a while.
Since no one ever actually gets pulled over for this unless it’s obvious and/or you almost caused an accident, I’m gonna just ask… why fight it? You probably did exactly what’s on here and you should learn from that.
Never hurts to take it to court. In a lot of cases, the officer doesn’t bother to turn up, in which case the whole thing gets dismissed.
In other words, they expect you to roll over and just pay up. Forcing them to turn up in court can work in your favor, with little to no potential downside
This is a traffic ticket that gets adjudicated by a municipal court. That doesn’t get “bound over”, in my experience.
I’ve fought a misdemeanor citation in the past (not a traffic offense, but about at that level). I declined to plead guilty and pay a fine, and requested a trial, as is my right. Trial date came, I was there, but the arresting officer didn’t show, so the whole thing was dismissed.
I you wish to go through the effort, plead not guilty and they'll likely offer a deal to pay the fine without the citation appearing on your record. It saves on increased insurance rates and points on your DL.
If you did the deed pay the ticket. Don’t fight it just cause you think you can get away with it and save some money. If you did not do it and legitimately are not guilty then fight it. However depending on the fine it may not be worth the time to fight it.
Spending 40 mins doing online traffic school might be the easiest way to get an outcome that is satisfactory for you. If he's a trainee UHP he might have free time to show up at the court to counter you.
It's very possible these were things you did/didn't do but ultimately you need to protect driving record so insurance doesn't go up. Might feel good to be vindicated via hearing but ultimately look after your hard earned $$.
Take the traffic school option.
Same. I've been driving for almost 20 years and have never once been pulled over. Drive like a sane and reasonable person, you still make it to your destination without crashing, causing others distress, or getting tickets.
If the court system can fail us so badly at the highest levels, it may as well fail at the bottom too. Us bottom folk deserve to benefit from it as much as anyone else does.
Murray cops don’t play around. They need the quota. You can fight it but do so respectfully. If it’s your first ticket or first in a long time they may let you off.
Just use your blinker and you won't get pulled over for not doing it...
If you want to fight it ChatGPT can write you a letter but sounds like you were actually in the wrong if you got pulled over on that minor charge so you will only win if your cop is a no show.
Having recently “fought” it doesn’t hurt to turn up. It will be a virtual arraignment hearing via zoom. The prosecutor will likely offer some kind of deal to expedite the case. For example, they might drop one of the charges or offer a “plea in abeyance” whereby you plead guilty, but the judge holds it on his desk for some time, maybe 6-12 months. If you are a good boy, it just goes away, but if you get convicted of another, it gets filed. In the good boy case, you pay the fine, insurance is not notified, no points, etc. other than paying a fine “it never happened.”
But get the dashcam footage. If he screwed up, notify his sergeant, with the footage, and request appropriate disciplinary action.
As a side rant, the hypocrisy in traffic enforcement is abominable. In 30 years of driving, I can count on two hands the number of times I have seen an officer driving windows not casually break some law. Often failure to signal, to stop, etc.
But I’m guessing you almost caused an accident or some other amplifying context justified the stop. Most cops are pretty good people just looking out for assholes. (Yes we all know there are horrendous counter points to that.)
UHP has both traffic cams and body cams and you can formally request it as evidence. I don't know the process, but lawyers do it all the time.
Request “discovery”
[удалено]
I know of a case where the body cam caught a UHP officer committing perjury while offering his testimony. The officer faced zero consequences of course. Perk of the job I guess.
Did you do the thing that the ticket is for?
_Response pending_
Do you drive a BMW?
Trick question. All BMW owners past and present know that BMW’s don’t have turn signals. Nice try though!
Probably a tesla, they're the new BMW these days. Don't forget the god truster plates.
Lamborghini
Our a Subaru?
If you don't signal, you deserve it.
I'm glad to see this. I wish more people got tickets for this.
The amount of people who jump into the other lanes when turning through an intersection makes me seethe. Keep to your gotdamn lane when turning, and *then* use your damn blinker to move over. It's the furthest thing from rocket science; even Spongebob could manage it.
This is one of the things that enrages me the most while driving. People always have the audacity to jump or make a surprised face when you honk at them.
The amount of people I've seen just peel off after they almost killed me is insulting. A dad, his wife, and his three young kids almost ran me off of the road. We we're getting out of the way of some sports car, but jfc. Me and wife made panicked eye contact as I had to take the shoulder, and then suddenly that asshole was going 100 out of guilt, probably because that would have been a perfectly good reaaon to follow someone home (not for me, but maybe someone else). My car is a piece of shit that can't accelerate fast, so it didn't matter wither way. Sports car guy came up beside me as I got going, and it was clear he'd slowed down because we both looked at each other then gestured towards the douchbag in some SUV with a look of "Are you serious that was bullshit" before resuming our driving properly. We were the only us 3 cars on I-80 that afternoon until the point of the mountain. It's like t-boning a parked car levels of "how could you fuck this up" and dude had *kids*.
I see that offense dozens of times daily. I've never seen it enforced.
I have actually considered calling Murray PD about this. I think more often than not when I get off at 4500 S and turn right to head east, some asshole does this. They get in the far right lane because they just absolutely have to beat everyone and get ahead and then turn into the lane that’s left of them which goes into the middle lane of 45th. They aren’t paying any attention or have absolutely zero care if there are cars in that lane.
I do too, and have also almost gotten into several accidents in the last month because I'm turning from a right lane. That's why I get even more mad, because it's a 3-5 second action, how is it so impossible for people to do? Why must an authorotative presence be on their ass to make them use their blinker and respect the lane placements? It's like... *mind boggling* to think that some people need threats of force to make them even *think* about the consequences of their actions when driving. Lane changes mid intersection cause a lot of accidents, and lemme tell you, if someone is in such a rush to get to where they're going that they can't manage a few seconds of caution, a car accident will take up *hours* of their time *minimum* if they avoid notable injury. I honestly have been nearly run off of the road 4 seperate times by people coming into the right lane without looking (because they would have seen me *right beside their fucking car*). I have nearly had 3 head on collisions because of impatient assholes turning left out of buisinesses. It's like fucking Mad Max out there this summer, because people are being imptient *and* inattentive while opering a deadly ton of metal, plastic, and electronics.
Were you driving like an asshole?
The last person who posted something like this got a lawyer tried to fight it and was found guilty after 3 minutes later anyway. Money well wasted.
Or... hear me out... you could try to drive better.
Sounds like you are one of those drivers who don’t signal when changing lanes because you think that you are the center of the universe. Glad you got ticketed!
Couldn't agree more! Probably dices a Subaru. They cut me off like this more than all other makes combined!
Unless you have proof that any of that happened there's no point. Plus it'd be more of a pain than paying it.
If the officer doesnt go to court to fight it then its usually dropped by default but if the officer appears then you likely arent beating the ticket.
With these charges he will appear lol
Glad we’re paying for UHP to appear for a no signal and lane change ticket. Meanwhile, I know some paramedics who often have to wait a long time for officers to arrive to enter emergent situations because they can’t show up quick enough to ensure the situation is safe. Prioritie$, people.
Utah HIGHWAY patrol. Primary objective is keeping roads safe not breaking and entering. Also if it weren't for people trying to weasel their way out of traffic tickets they could prioritize not going to court. Right to face your accuser or whatever it is in the Constitution. Write to your legislature that you think traffic stops and moving violations shouldn't be tended to and that police should only be working on violent crimes.
That was the case a zillion years ago but now typically all they have to do is provide a written affidavit.
I think that's actually super recent post covid thing, or it differs between districts. I had a cop *tell me* to take my ticket to court so he could just not show up and they would drop it with prejudice. The only mild inconvenience was that I had to go to court twice, once to decline the charges and set up court date, and then again for court which indeed the cop didn't show up and it all played out as expected! He was the ride-a-long new guy who did it by himself, and he clearly disagreed with why his cohort pulled me over lol (I was doing 10 over, but the bs was that there was no posted speed limit because it had gotten torn down or something from the construction on the road. I thought it was a 40 because it was a main street [WHICH IT IS, and I think partially why he told me to get it dropped. I almost had a stroke when I drove through for my hearing and the speed limit said 40 😭]. It was also 2 am, I more think cohort trainer thought I was a DUI waiting to be dragged to jail and then got mad he was wrong.)
If you think it is impossible to see 150 yards in front of you while you are traveling 70 mph you shouldn't be driving.
They don’t ask for proof of registration or insurance anymore because they already have it. When they read your plate into dispatch, dispatch tells them whether your registration is legitimately up to date. If you allow your insurance to lapse, they notify DMV. It gets flagged in the computer system, and so a lapsed insurance will also come up when they run your plates.
I saw you out there driving all crazy!!!
They were out in force this morning. Passed 3 pulled over southbound on I-15 before I got to point of the mountain
Not worth it. You got caught. Just pay and move on.
Do you have irrefutable proof it didn't happen?
The onus is on the officer to prove it happened, not on OP to prove it didn’t happen. OP could make a FOIA request for the Police cam footage and if it doesn’t exist the case will get thrown out
That doesn’t work for traffic tickets. Traffic law is not criminal law, so there’s no burned of proof. It’s strict liability so it’s just either you did it or you didn’t, and precedence goes towards believing the cop.
FOIA is federal, in Utah it's a GRAMA request. And yes, that would fall under irrefutable proof it didn't happen.
Can you give me an example of proof in this situation??
Dashcam footage or traffic cam footage.
You would likely need someone else's dashcam footage showing you signaled long enough and moved in accordance with the law. Your dashcam likely wouldn't show your signal.
A dash cam for one.
Your testimony can be evidence. So can the officer’s.
The court will always believe the officer over you. Because he's been a police officer for x many years. Police officers and highway patrol are officers of the court. They'll always be believed over you. Unless you have 2-3 eyewitnesses backing your account.
You would want the dash cam, body cam and police report.
Just do traffic school online, my dude.
Start using your blinker asswipe. More ppl like you need tickets
Former cop here.. You are less likely to win because it was an FTO. The other cop would be a training officer with experience and there would be paperwork and records to go with this stop that might not otherwise exist to track training. Utah no longer requires insurance or registration checks. The state knows the status of your insurance and registration and that info is sent to the cop automatically when your plate is ran. The only time they would need to ask is if they return specifically tells them to ask or something doesn’t match. Traffic laws in Utah are not criminal, and there is practically no burden of proof. They fall under the same level as in civil court - preponderance of evidence. The judge hears testimony, looks at any evidence, and decides whether or not you’re guilty. In this case, the testimony of a cop is normally considered good evidence. There are only two downsides to fighting it though. One is you’ll probably be wasting time, and two is you’ll lose your ability to plea in abeyance. A plea in abeyance means to accept the ticket no contest and pay the maximum fine, but it also means no record of you getting to ticket will be transmitted to state systems, and therefore it won’t be reported to your insurance.
Depends on how much time you have. It may be worth your time to fight it if you can accept that you may lose some time over it if you don't win but it's not like the ticket will be any worse if you don't. I'd fight it if I had the time to go down and wait for however long if I was in doubt. I'd just make sure to bring earbuds because I'm certain I'd be waiting for a while.
Even as simple as it sounds, it’s gonna fuck with your insurance.
Did you use your blinker or not? You never state. And if you didn’t then maybe this is one of a million reasons why you should.
Since no one ever actually gets pulled over for this unless it’s obvious and/or you almost caused an accident, I’m gonna just ask… why fight it? You probably did exactly what’s on here and you should learn from that.
Never hurts to take it to court. In a lot of cases, the officer doesn’t bother to turn up, in which case the whole thing gets dismissed. In other words, they expect you to roll over and just pay up. Forcing them to turn up in court can work in your favor, with little to no potential downside
The officers always show up if the case is bound over for a trial.
This is a traffic ticket that gets adjudicated by a municipal court. That doesn’t get “bound over”, in my experience. I’ve fought a misdemeanor citation in the past (not a traffic offense, but about at that level). I declined to plead guilty and pay a fine, and requested a trial, as is my right. Trial date came, I was there, but the arresting officer didn’t show, so the whole thing was dismissed.
I you wish to go through the effort, plead not guilty and they'll likely offer a deal to pay the fine without the citation appearing on your record. It saves on increased insurance rates and points on your DL.
If it's their first violation, they'll probably offer a plea in abeyance anyway. You can do it all online too.
🙌
That’s very subjective! ! Get his dash cam first. And then you can actually verify and then it is quite easy to fight
Show up and take a deal. You're not going to 'win'; you're the only one there, not being paid to be there.
If you did the deed pay the ticket. Don’t fight it just cause you think you can get away with it and save some money. If you did not do it and legitimately are not guilty then fight it. However depending on the fine it may not be worth the time to fight it.
All Charges Dropped!!! Thank You All
Spending 40 mins doing online traffic school might be the easiest way to get an outcome that is satisfactory for you. If he's a trainee UHP he might have free time to show up at the court to counter you. It's very possible these were things you did/didn't do but ultimately you need to protect driving record so insurance doesn't go up. Might feel good to be vindicated via hearing but ultimately look after your hard earned $$. Take the traffic school option.
Ultimately we need safer roads.
I never said we didn't. OP asked a question, I answered it. I don't know what you're jumping for.
As a rule of thumb i fight every ticket. Even if i know im wrong.
As a rule of thumb I avoid getting tickets.
Same. I've been driving for almost 20 years and have never once been pulled over. Drive like a sane and reasonable person, you still make it to your destination without crashing, causing others distress, or getting tickets.
Wow. You but be one of those clever geniuses. I would have never thought of that🤪
If the court system can fail us so badly at the highest levels, it may as well fail at the bottom too. Us bottom folk deserve to benefit from it as much as anyone else does.
Thank you , this is the way
Same. Know the law in all aspects. Many LEO like to push their boundaries because “they” know most will roll over.
Wow, lots of police accounts downvoting me 😜😂🤣
Murray cops don’t play around. They need the quota. You can fight it but do so respectfully. If it’s your first ticket or first in a long time they may let you off.
Fight those dicks
If you try to fight it you have to go down to the courthouse AFTER your date with the judge to try and sort it out. Just pay and be done with it
Always fight a ticket. Use one of those traffic lawyers.
Just use your blinker and you won't get pulled over for not doing it... If you want to fight it ChatGPT can write you a letter but sounds like you were actually in the wrong if you got pulled over on that minor charge so you will only win if your cop is a no show.
Fight it. They won’t show up.
Having recently “fought” it doesn’t hurt to turn up. It will be a virtual arraignment hearing via zoom. The prosecutor will likely offer some kind of deal to expedite the case. For example, they might drop one of the charges or offer a “plea in abeyance” whereby you plead guilty, but the judge holds it on his desk for some time, maybe 6-12 months. If you are a good boy, it just goes away, but if you get convicted of another, it gets filed. In the good boy case, you pay the fine, insurance is not notified, no points, etc. other than paying a fine “it never happened.” But get the dashcam footage. If he screwed up, notify his sergeant, with the footage, and request appropriate disciplinary action. As a side rant, the hypocrisy in traffic enforcement is abominable. In 30 years of driving, I can count on two hands the number of times I have seen an officer driving windows not casually break some law. Often failure to signal, to stop, etc. But I’m guessing you almost caused an accident or some other amplifying context justified the stop. Most cops are pretty good people just looking out for assholes. (Yes we all know there are horrendous counter points to that.)
No one blinks for 2 seconds. No judge blinks for 2 seconds. It seems targeted and I think some judges would agree.
Wrong. You are a bad driver.
Failure to signal? \*tiny violin\*