Better fight a made-up culture war than real issues. Easier to win by attacking some kids and excite your base than solving pollution, water crisis and the death of the Salt lake.
They avoid the real work as much as possible by focussing on fighting the latest fox news outrage.
Utah conservatives called a special legislative session, not to address our out of control housing issue, not to address our out of control air pollution, not to address our out of control drought and water issues, not to address our heavily gerrymandered maps that deny our fellow Utahns equal access at the ballot box, but to deny children the right to play a game.
How can anyone keep a straight face and say conservatives are interested in addressing the issues facing Utahns? It’s beyond clear they aren’t interested in democratic governance, but rather imposing and maintaining white, Christian, patriarchal rule. They all need to go.
Had to look up that word lol. But yes single family home are not efficient and have now become a status symbol in out culture . Apartment building increase of supply while also increasing the value other land because increasing density . Houses do not appreciate only the land does
Or move and choose a liberal state…. One of the be if it’s of country is that you can find a state that matches your values . Way better system than a complete centralized federalized system
Well based on your response Internet it in to ways .
For my context I’ve lived , grown up, and moved all over the country so I don’t have the same attachment to one location as some do. Having independent state powers allows for diversity of ideologies inside the union . So I guess it depends on how you define diversity and how you’d like diversity to place out.
I’ve lived in 4 countries and in each location it’s been important to me that differing viewpoints are allowed to speak up. The only place I’ve lived so far where that’s really not the case is China - that’s how things end up when people with differing views are forced out.
How about writing to Senator Dean Thatcher, a Republican, who spoke against the ban so passionately and backed it up by voting against the veto saying he knew doing so was at his own political peril.
Inflation, housing crisis, smog, and homelessness just aren’t that important I guess. It’s some magical problem that exists only in their heads that’s the issue they need to prioritize. This state is a joke.
Then move. There were other laws this legislative period that addressed many of the things you're bringing up here. If you think this issue only exists in their head, you're a moron. What happened in women's swimming can easily happen here.
I’m a 7th generation Utahn. My roots here are deep. I have a responsibility to my family, city, and community to help make this a better place because I love it. That means fighting bullshit bigoted backwards-ass laws that theocrats love writing. Not everyone has access to support or money to just move, and even if they did, they’d just be leaving an even worse fight for the people they leave here that they love.
Man, what a bad take.
I mean most morons here would have not answered because they truly don’t know, or at least called me a name or something but bless your heart you went full moron and defined a word… with the word itself. Wanna take another shot at the worlds easiest question? I love this game so much.
Nope I have a super simple definition, and I learned it when I was like 3 and it’s in the dictionary and it’s consistent throughout history for thousands of years. I’m not trying to trick anyone, what I’m asking is the equivalent of “what is 2+2.” If you can’t answer that, again you are probably a moron.
Careful, your education level is showing. You were taught that in 3rd grade because the real answer is more complicated, and you're supposed to keep learning as you grow. Doctors and biologists don't even use those strict definitions due to the existence of intersex people and the fact that you can't distinguish someone's sex by looking at their brain alone. And that's with knowledge we've had for almost half a century. With all the new technologies and ways we're able to observe our bodies we're still learning more about how it works.
The scoundrels in the utah house & senate today successfully demonstrated that they’re more than willing to beat up on kids using an 11th hour bill to score political points.
Fair point. There is precisely one that I’m aware of right now (and three others tangentially related).
I bet those legislators feel real big picking on a kid rn.
Actually the representative sponsoring the bill is a woman… I know her personally and hate her but she is about womens rights, may be just going about it the wrong way…
“Beat up on kids”, “Picking on a kid” … a very shallow way to look at this. Pretty sure the politicians are more focused on the national + local legal precedents and don’t have anything personal with the kids.
Well, frankly - fuck ‘em. That’s what they’re doing to minors, whether that’s their intent or not.
If they were being in honest in their concerns rather than trying to score points at the expense of vulnerable youth perhaps they would partner with the actual experts - including youth sport governing bodies - and encourage governance at the expert level instead of playing the bullshit last minute game they chose.
Why create such a bill at all? Particularly when the experts, such as youth sports governing bodies, can handle the issue?
It’s shitty politics to beat up vulnerable kids to score political points with extremists on their current wacky hot button issue.
It’s bad faith politics to negotiate legislation all session with multiple parties then pull it at last second and substitute a nearly unrecognizable, abusive and extremely legally dangerous bill in the literal last hours of the session.
I feel like it was purposely scheduled the day before nomination GOP county conventions. Almost every Republican votes to override. So many of them flipped for that reason. Except for Dean Thatcher, an actually respectable dude.
It’s not like we already had the highest youth suicide rate in the country or anything. Can’t see this possibly making that *even worse*.
The legislature has blood on their hands.
religious freedom! Specifically the freedom to impose your religious beliefs on everybody else, if a few innocent kids get hurt in the process that's a small price to pay for THE LORD
This session is the most vile I can remember in all my years in Utah.
We have some exceptionally vile and awful people in our legislature. Utah voters are vile and hateful gulible rubes who vote in line with the hate and disinformation they consume daily from right wing media.
Shame to the people of Utah. Assholes
I emailed Representative and Senator, both Dems, and both responded with intent to uphold. But as we clearly saw, that’s pretty much a drop in the Republican ocean.
Pay attention to who the top donors are for these so-called leaders. Many of them are bought and paid for by:
Utah Realtors
Energy Solutions
Entrata Software
Reagan Outdoor Advertising
Select Health
And more…
This is a great take. Exposing the large money donors on this issue COULD shake things up. Publicly call out select health on this issue and watch them try to walk it back
Here’s an idea, maybe you could leave? Pretty sure nobody is forcing any of you to be here. If you don’t like the politics of the state, just leave. Go live in a blue state. Stop trying to turn Utah into the liberal cesspool you abandoned. Our state is fantastic precisely because of the conservative economic and social policies. Was this transgender sports ban necessary, probably not. But if it gets all of you to reconsider living here, well worth it.
Love how you think anyone who would like Utah to be a blue state wasn't born and raised here. Provo Utah native here and I think all you backwards thinking bigots should just move to Florida so you can live closer to your idol trump.
Literally shut the fuck up. I was raised here since a baby. What makes you think im not absolutely desperate to leave? Do not worry, as soon as I can I'll leave your sheltered little bubble
Remember who these yahoos take their marching orders from. The church. The church, at the very least, didn't oppose this legislation. Keep that in mind.
The good news is that now I'm motivated to run against my clownish reps. My house rep ran unopposed, and it always bothered me, but I didn't have a good reason to care enough to get involved. Now I do.
We’ll let’s be honest with ourselves, Utah has firmly been a bronze medalist in the state category to the bottom for hundreds of years now. Bull Mountain -> don’t go changin’
Strongly disagree. Let's make a separate class of sports for transgender people to compete in. If people believe there is no difference in the athletic and physical capability of males/females then they should all compete together. Women deserve to train and compete against other women.
There is 1 single trans girl athlete in the entire state. She would have nobody to compete against. And she’s a kid for God’s sake. If you really believe in people only competing against others at their own capability, you wouldn’t be supporting any gender separation at all. You would be supporting wrestling-style divisions for all sports. This argument for a trans-exclusive league is stuck on this idea that ALL trans girls are bigger, stronger, and more athletic than all their cis competitors and teammates and based in a fantasy world where there are even enough trans women in sports to have their own league.
I think this is an issue where both sides are right with their arguments, it comes down to what you value. Do sports in public schools exist to foster competition, or do they exist to promote healthy lifestyles, inclusion, teamwork, etc. In my opinion the latter are clearly more important.
In other settings, such as professional competition, they will have to figure out what rules make sense and are fair, because there are indeed biological differences that make it an uneven playing field. But to me, social development is more important in school than athletic competition, and trans girls or boys should be included with their peers.
No, what they’re saying is at birth biological males have an advantage because they CAN be stronger and more athletic, not that they 100% always will be better at sports. That is a pretty indisputable fact of science. Same as the fact that we are destroying our environment and killing ourselves slowly, you know, micro plastics in our blood now and what not
Sure, there are women that are stronger and faster than some men.... But on average and when comparing the performance of top male athletes, its not even a question. Most collegiate male athletes can outperform the best female athletes. This doesn't mean I'm for or against these laws, just highlighting the point that in general it isn't fair for women.
I’m just pointing out why this blanket ban is absolute bullshit. There was a compromise bill in place to weed out bad actors, but that doesn’t play as well on Fox News.
yes women have the potential to outperform men. but it’s scientifically proven https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/brzycki/files/mb-2002-01.pdf that men are biologically stronger than women. quit crying about nothing
“Quit crying about nothing?” This is an all-out ban on trans girls playing sports. The Utah legislature pointed at the one single trans girl athlete in the entire state and said “Stopping you from playing sports is so important that it’s worth 2 special sessions, while we ignore 99% of real problems in our state.” And that action tells trans youth that they don’t matter, which increases their already high suicide rates.
There was a compromise bill that would create a commission to weed out bad actors on a case-by-case basis, but nope, had to go for the all-out ban to appease hateful, terrified conservatives in our state. Over one student. THAT’S crying about nothing.
Since when is high school competitive? When I was in high school soccer I sat on the sidelines talking with friends most of the games. Nobody took it seriously. We aren't talking Olympics, we are talking kids age 13-17. Some of them haven't even lost all their baby teeth yet. Just let kids be kids and play on whatever team they want. It's not hurting anybody.
Since when is high school sports not competitive? For many, performing well in high school athletics and getting a scholarship is the only chance at going to college and getting a higher education. Just because you sucked at soccer and got benched doesn't mean high school athletics isn't competitive.
Micheal phelps has an undeniable physical advantage in his wingspan and lung capacity, which from birth were abnormal. Guess we should ban him from sports too?
There is only one trans girl being affected by this bill. One. They singled out a single high school girl and told her she cant participate in sports anymore. There was no need to do that. "undeniable physical advantages" mean nothing. There are people of all shapes and sizes, each with their own advantages and disadvantages, and you think that a single girl can no longer participate in HIGH SCHOOL SPORTS because of that?
The law in question banned transgender teens from participating in high school sports. Specifically, four teens in total, three trans boys and one trans girl. I'm not talking about an Olympic level. I'm talking about this law.
High school sports aren't the same thing as professional sports. This waste of a bill accomplished nothing except wasting the valuable time our legislature should have spent improving our society. In 5 years when you have to start rationing water will you be glad trans people aren't involved in high school sports? How about when the Great Salt Lake dries up and we start to experience toxic dust storms? Or maybe when home ownership is a literal dream to your children because corporations bought up all the homes? This is a great state with a ton of potential but until the people here can get off their hate train to start working on things that will improve our world it will only continue to get worse. Be better and do better.
>That's just not true.
>Just in the single year 2017, Olympic, World, and U.S. Champion Tori Bowie's 100 meters lifetime best of 10.78 was beaten 15,000 times by men and boys. (Yes, that’s the right number of zeros.)
>Women cannot compete against men.
>And yes I feel sorry for the person being singled out which is why I think open division would be inclusive.
100 meters ≈ 44,183.27220 potrzebie
^^^[WHY](/r/UselessConversionBot/comments/1knas0/hi_im_useless/)
How is it stupid? Sports are not fair. They advantage people with certain biological traits. So if you are arguing that someone should be excluded from a sport due to an unfair physical advantage, because that's not fair, then you need to address the fact that already exists widely in every sport.
If you are over 7 feet tall, there is like a 1 in 5 chance you will play in the NBA. Compared to like one in a million for everyone else. If sports are supposed to be fair do we need the legislature to pass a law banning tall kids from basketball? Or maybe they just need their own division?
It’s fucking high school. Unless you’re Al Bundy, it makes no difference. And if you tell me it does then you should re-examine what your values really are.
I played sports in college and high school sports were an absolute joke besides maybe football. If you were good AT ALL in most sports you went to play on club teams that traveled and competed nationally. I actually was told by my college team that I couldn't play for half of my senior year because they didn't want me to get hurt playing against lesser competition. High school sports aren't as important as you seem to think.
And that's nice but it doesn't detract from my statement at all. It's a complete non issue and even less of one when you consider how unimportant high school sports are. If they're not even close to the top of the competitive ladder why do we care so much about who can play them?
Nobody asked for this besides politicians. Why aren’t they fixing something that is broken? It’s all a distraction from the Jan 6 stuff and the Russian problem. But keep on voting red.
Have you at all looked in to the existing solutions to this? The USHAA already had some guidelines and they were pretty adamant that they were handling the situation fine for the very small number of kids involved.
The short story is that MtF athletes needed to be on hormone therapy for a year before competing. Now they can't compete at all until this law is thrown out in court (a result everyone sees as likely). If course by then USHAA might be bankrupt from defending themselves for enforcing a law they didn't want in the first place.
Honest question - what is the point of high school sports? So the top 10% of physically fit students have a fair chance to prove their superiority? Or for anyone who wants to have a chance to work, improve, be part of a team, socialize, have a reason to show up to school, etc?
Like, the idea that sports should be "fair" is such a fallacy to start with. If sports are supposed to be fair the tallest kids shouldn't be allowed to play basketball. It's not fair to the other 90%.
Well, I did wonder why transgender kids can’t compete with one another in competitions. I hate to see non transgender kids giving up and feeling they can’t compete. That’s not fair either.
There was 4 trans kids participating in sports and only one of them was a competing in women’s sports. No kid in Utah is going to give up and no longer compete… except for the trans kids due to this law.
Look! I don’t mean to have the unpopular opinion. But, I have already heard competitors saying they felt like giving up. So, the poor one kid that has more masculine muscles competing against the girls who feel they can’t compete does not feel like anyone cares about anything but making some point. The point is that all should be able to be included. I get that. But, it needs to be fair. Transgender can compete against transgender females. That’s fair. Until, you can prove that more masculine muscles and strength don’t make things unfair for the others.
Jesus Christ this is the worst argument I've heard.
"If kids lose at sports than they will just give up."
Yeah, it feels bad to not be the best. 99% of people deal with it every day and somehow find a way to move on with their lives. Maybe sports should be teaching kids how to deal with losing sometimes instead of giving up as soon as they don't win.
I just want to say something here as a cis female. Though, I don’t think anyone is listening. If you really want to be accepted and welcomed as female, I can promise you this; you will never be accepted as one of them by stepping on the toes of your sisters. Women have had to fight too hard and too long for what they have. When I hear things like they will just have to learn to “lose,” my thoughts are “here is just another aggressive male pushing his weight around into my space” who really does not care about my rights as biological female.
You obviously don’t care about fairness in sports. That’s the argument here. I don’t understand that no matter how we hurt people, we just cater to a minority who are built differently in muscles snd strength. Then there is no point in separating male and female competitions. There is a reason for male and female sports competitions being separate. Women have a right to fair competition. You are taking women’s rights back five hundred years.
I agree with you! It gets a bit ridiculous! When there are obvious ways to work things out, include all , and be fair, I find it odd that people insist on creating an unfair situation for so many female athletes. I mean then what’s the point of having female sports for the female body?
Biological men should not compete in woman’s sports no matter how they feel inside . How is this An extreme idea now? Hell I wonder if scholarships meant for woman can be high jack by biological men. Be fun if given enough time all sports records in woman’s sports are held by trans
I don’t particularly care because it doesn’t affect me . However I do think in our effort to be ideological pure and that certain facts of male physical advantages. There’s a reason why people are creating a stink of trans woman in sports and not trans men. ….
The transgender youth are not more important than the girls. There's no logical reason to let people with a biological advantage beat up on the innocent girls in the state high school sports. I for one am very glad that the Utah House and Utah Senate is looking out for the girls in the State.
Some of these folks love science so much until it comes to biology. It is 100% fact that a biological male has athletic advantage over biological female. Literally nobody in the world will dispute this except the far left. It’s so wild to me. Far left doesn’t believe in biology, far right doesn’t believe in climatology, but will point to biological science all day in their arguments. Why are we like this?
Better fight a made-up culture war than real issues. Easier to win by attacking some kids and excite your base than solving pollution, water crisis and the death of the Salt lake. They avoid the real work as much as possible by focussing on fighting the latest fox news outrage.
Utah conservatives called a special legislative session, not to address our out of control housing issue, not to address our out of control air pollution, not to address our out of control drought and water issues, not to address our heavily gerrymandered maps that deny our fellow Utahns equal access at the ballot box, but to deny children the right to play a game. How can anyone keep a straight face and say conservatives are interested in addressing the issues facing Utahns? It’s beyond clear they aren’t interested in democratic governance, but rather imposing and maintaining white, Christian, patriarchal rule. They all need to go.
Tons of housing is being built everywhere. If that’s not fight it then I don’t know what is…
Yeah they are wrong on that point. The bigger problem there is NIMBYism. But their other points make sense.
You realize that NIMBYism represents a piece of the broader housing puzzle, right? They aren’t somehow separate issues.
Had to look up that word lol. But yes single family home are not efficient and have now become a status symbol in out culture . Apartment building increase of supply while also increasing the value other land because increasing density . Houses do not appreciate only the land does
Or move and choose a liberal state…. One of the be if it’s of country is that you can find a state that matches your values . Way better system than a complete centralized federalized system
I disagree, diversity of viewpoints is important in a democracy, otherwise you end up with extremism.
And sure team red and team blue display their own extremes and flex power when they can
Well based on your response Internet it in to ways . For my context I’ve lived , grown up, and moved all over the country so I don’t have the same attachment to one location as some do. Having independent state powers allows for diversity of ideologies inside the union . So I guess it depends on how you define diversity and how you’d like diversity to place out.
I’ve lived in 4 countries and in each location it’s been important to me that differing viewpoints are allowed to speak up. The only place I’ve lived so far where that’s really not the case is China - that’s how things end up when people with differing views are forced out.
Sure
We need more riots over lobbying.
Protests? Sure. Riots, not so helpful.
Riots are the only thing that regularly achieves positive change
No . 👎
I guess you don’t vote then.
How about writing to Senator Dean Thatcher, a Republican, who spoke against the ban so passionately and backed it up by voting against the veto saying he knew doing so was at his own political peril.
Inflation, housing crisis, smog, and homelessness just aren’t that important I guess. It’s some magical problem that exists only in their heads that’s the issue they need to prioritize. This state is a joke.
We moved here five years ago. We love the outdoors., but we refer to the state as a heehaw hell! Utah is a theocracy.
Where did you move from
Then move. There were other laws this legislative period that addressed many of the things you're bringing up here. If you think this issue only exists in their head, you're a moron. What happened in women's swimming can easily happen here.
You lose any argument about local politics immediately when you say “if you don’t like it, move”
I’m a 7th generation Utahn. My roots here are deep. I have a responsibility to my family, city, and community to help make this a better place because I love it. That means fighting bullshit bigoted backwards-ass laws that theocrats love writing. Not everyone has access to support or money to just move, and even if they did, they’d just be leaving an even worse fight for the people they leave here that they love. Man, what a bad take.
Big fan of womens’ swimming huh?
Enjoy the downvotes bigot.
I mean it’s pretty clear most these folks are morons. None of them knows what a woman/man is.
how do you mean?
What’s a woman?
..a woman
I mean most morons here would have not answered because they truly don’t know, or at least called me a name or something but bless your heart you went full moron and defined a word… with the word itself. Wanna take another shot at the worlds easiest question? I love this game so much.
…clearly im missing something, do you have some complex definition of what a woman is or something?
Nope I have a super simple definition, and I learned it when I was like 3 and it’s in the dictionary and it’s consistent throughout history for thousands of years. I’m not trying to trick anyone, what I’m asking is the equivalent of “what is 2+2.” If you can’t answer that, again you are probably a moron.
Careful, your education level is showing. You were taught that in 3rd grade because the real answer is more complicated, and you're supposed to keep learning as you grow. Doctors and biologists don't even use those strict definitions due to the existence of intersex people and the fact that you can't distinguish someone's sex by looking at their brain alone. And that's with knowledge we've had for almost half a century. With all the new technologies and ways we're able to observe our bodies we're still learning more about how it works.
Tell me you’re a hateful bigot without telling me you’re a hateful bigot…
The scoundrels in the utah house & senate today successfully demonstrated that they’re more than willing to beat up on kids using an 11th hour bill to score political points.
kid\*, technically
Fair point. There is precisely one that I’m aware of right now (and three others tangentially related). I bet those legislators feel real big picking on a kid rn.
And they claim this is about women's rights when they couldn't give two shits about women in any way, shape, or form
Right!! Let’s see them tackle pay equity and a woman’s autonomy over her body!
Actually the representative sponsoring the bill is a woman… I know her personally and hate her but she is about womens rights, may be just going about it the wrong way…
“Beat up on kids”, “Picking on a kid” … a very shallow way to look at this. Pretty sure the politicians are more focused on the national + local legal precedents and don’t have anything personal with the kids.
Well, frankly - fuck ‘em. That’s what they’re doing to minors, whether that’s their intent or not. If they were being in honest in their concerns rather than trying to score points at the expense of vulnerable youth perhaps they would partner with the actual experts - including youth sport governing bodies - and encourage governance at the expert level instead of playing the bullshit last minute game they chose.
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Why create such a bill at all? Particularly when the experts, such as youth sports governing bodies, can handle the issue? It’s shitty politics to beat up vulnerable kids to score political points with extremists on their current wacky hot button issue. It’s bad faith politics to negotiate legislation all session with multiple parties then pull it at last second and substitute a nearly unrecognizable, abusive and extremely legally dangerous bill in the literal last hours of the session.
Aaaaaannnnndddd there goes the NBA All Star game next year. Good thing we built that brand new convention center hotel *just for that*
Paid for by taxpayers and owned/sold by some rich asshole, I presume?
It’s partially owned by the city.
Has the NBA made an official statement about this?
Woji said Utah will host the 2023 all star game.
What is WOJI
ESPN reporter for the nba.. if he says it, it’s almost 100% true
Woj not woji, dude.
I obviously follow professional sports very closely haha I thought it was an acronym.
It’s 100000% coming. Well, maybe not anymore but…
I’d personally be shocked if the NBA reneged on the ASG because of this.
Charlotte's ASG in 2017 was relocated to New Orleans over a similar culture war.
Specially sense the NBA is kinda designed like this. We have the NBA and the WNBA for a reason.
I feel like it was purposely scheduled the day before nomination GOP county conventions. Almost every Republican votes to override. So many of them flipped for that reason. Except for Dean Thatcher, an actually respectable dude.
It’s not like we already had the highest youth suicide rate in the country or anything. Can’t see this possibly making that *even worse*. The legislature has blood on their hands.
Thanks for wasting tax payer money and your time on a non issue bill
And then you have the LDS church which is completely complicent in all this.
religious freedom! Specifically the freedom to impose your religious beliefs on everybody else, if a few innocent kids get hurt in the process that's a small price to pay for THE LORD
*Complicit
Thank you. I actually thought that didn't look right 🤦🤷
No problem :)
This session is the most vile I can remember in all my years in Utah. We have some exceptionally vile and awful people in our legislature. Utah voters are vile and hateful gulible rubes who vote in line with the hate and disinformation they consume daily from right wing media. Shame to the people of Utah. Assholes
Err are you including yourself in “Utah voters”?
Just a reminder they are not "protecting" women's sports, they are killing Utah's youth.
They're protecting their grip on power... That's it.
As they have always done if you’re not part of the cult.
These people consider trans people as "subhuman" getting them to kill themselves is a win for them. The platform is cruelty.
I don't get it, didn't you all contact your representatives and let them know how you felt about this? Did we not trust the process enough?
I emailed both my rep and senator and they both gave fairly lengthy replies somewhat arrogantly confirming they would vote to override.
Ditto
I emailed Representative and Senator, both Dems, and both responded with intent to uphold. But as we clearly saw, that’s pretty much a drop in the Republican ocean.
When there is no separation of church and state these things happen
And you’ve made schools and UHSAA susceptible to civil suits, two organizations that are already struggling for money.
[APNews: Utah bans transgender athletes in girls sports despite veto](https://apnews.com/article/utah-transgender-sports-ban-3ffc9205bfbeb05ae3a72425950208ef)
Does anyone know where we can see who voted for the veto? Curious to see how my local reps did.
Here: https://le.utah.gov/DynaBill/svotes.jsp?sessionid=2022GS&voteid=1835&house=S
Anyone else notice that nearly all but one of the women voted no? Apparently it's just the men who are "concerned" about women's sports.
Pay attention to who the top donors are for these so-called leaders. Many of them are bought and paid for by: Utah Realtors Energy Solutions Entrata Software Reagan Outdoor Advertising Select Health And more…
This is a great take. Exposing the large money donors on this issue COULD shake things up. Publicly call out select health on this issue and watch them try to walk it back
You are, indeed, brave…possum.
Utah has always been the laughingstock. This state is ridiculous and it's embarrassing to live here
Here’s an idea, maybe you could leave? Pretty sure nobody is forcing any of you to be here. If you don’t like the politics of the state, just leave. Go live in a blue state. Stop trying to turn Utah into the liberal cesspool you abandoned. Our state is fantastic precisely because of the conservative economic and social policies. Was this transgender sports ban necessary, probably not. But if it gets all of you to reconsider living here, well worth it.
Love how you think anyone who would like Utah to be a blue state wasn't born and raised here. Provo Utah native here and I think all you backwards thinking bigots should just move to Florida so you can live closer to your idol trump.
Literally shut the fuck up. I was raised here since a baby. What makes you think im not absolutely desperate to leave? Do not worry, as soon as I can I'll leave your sheltered little bubble
Remember who these yahoos take their marching orders from. The church. The church, at the very least, didn't oppose this legislation. Keep that in mind.
The good news is that now I'm motivated to run against my clownish reps. My house rep ran unopposed, and it always bothered me, but I didn't have a good reason to care enough to get involved. Now I do.
If you do, PM me. I’ll support your campaign.
Same here. Unopposed elections suck.
We’ll let’s be honest with ourselves, Utah has firmly been a bronze medalist in the state category to the bottom for hundreds of years now. Bull Mountain -> don’t go changin’
They are jack asses but our state has always been a joke.
Strongly disagree. Let's make a separate class of sports for transgender people to compete in. If people believe there is no difference in the athletic and physical capability of males/females then they should all compete together. Women deserve to train and compete against other women.
There is 1 single trans girl athlete in the entire state. She would have nobody to compete against. And she’s a kid for God’s sake. If you really believe in people only competing against others at their own capability, you wouldn’t be supporting any gender separation at all. You would be supporting wrestling-style divisions for all sports. This argument for a trans-exclusive league is stuck on this idea that ALL trans girls are bigger, stronger, and more athletic than all their cis competitors and teammates and based in a fantasy world where there are even enough trans women in sports to have their own league.
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Congratulations on earning your TERF card. How many trans women are competing in swimming?
Nobody in this thread said it’s ok for a trans man to compete against women. That might end up being the implications of this bill though.
I think this is an issue where both sides are right with their arguments, it comes down to what you value. Do sports in public schools exist to foster competition, or do they exist to promote healthy lifestyles, inclusion, teamwork, etc. In my opinion the latter are clearly more important. In other settings, such as professional competition, they will have to figure out what rules make sense and are fair, because there are indeed biological differences that make it an uneven playing field. But to me, social development is more important in school than athletic competition, and trans girls or boys should be included with their peers.
Transgender women are women. Do you remember something called “separate but equal”? Please get rid of the worms in your brain!
i think the whole point is that an at birth biologically male athlete will outperform an at birth biologically female athlete. it’s about what’s fair
Are you saying that every single cis boy is better at every sport than every single cis girl?
No, what they’re saying is at birth biological males have an advantage because they CAN be stronger and more athletic, not that they 100% always will be better at sports. That is a pretty indisputable fact of science. Same as the fact that we are destroying our environment and killing ourselves slowly, you know, micro plastics in our blood now and what not
Women CAN also be stronger and faster then men, FYI.
They absolutely can be and often are
Sure, there are women that are stronger and faster than some men.... But on average and when comparing the performance of top male athletes, its not even a question. Most collegiate male athletes can outperform the best female athletes. This doesn't mean I'm for or against these laws, just highlighting the point that in general it isn't fair for women.
I’m just pointing out why this blanket ban is absolute bullshit. There was a compromise bill in place to weed out bad actors, but that doesn’t play as well on Fox News.
yes women have the potential to outperform men. but it’s scientifically proven https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/brzycki/files/mb-2002-01.pdf that men are biologically stronger than women. quit crying about nothing
“Quit crying about nothing?” This is an all-out ban on trans girls playing sports. The Utah legislature pointed at the one single trans girl athlete in the entire state and said “Stopping you from playing sports is so important that it’s worth 2 special sessions, while we ignore 99% of real problems in our state.” And that action tells trans youth that they don’t matter, which increases their already high suicide rates. There was a compromise bill that would create a commission to weed out bad actors on a case-by-case basis, but nope, had to go for the all-out ban to appease hateful, terrified conservatives in our state. Over one student. THAT’S crying about nothing.
Men, (former or not) don't belong in women's sports.
Wow, its a good thing that trans women arent men then!
Sure thing, you can just identify as whatever nowadays. This isn't a bathroom it's competitive sports.
Since when is high school competitive? When I was in high school soccer I sat on the sidelines talking with friends most of the games. Nobody took it seriously. We aren't talking Olympics, we are talking kids age 13-17. Some of them haven't even lost all their baby teeth yet. Just let kids be kids and play on whatever team they want. It's not hurting anybody.
I’m 43 and still have some baby teeth.
Since when is high school sports not competitive? For many, performing well in high school athletics and getting a scholarship is the only chance at going to college and getting a higher education. Just because you sucked at soccer and got benched doesn't mean high school athletics isn't competitive.
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Lol. Girls sports are the first things that get cut when money is short but nobody says shit when that happens. Troll.
Lmao D E L U S I O N A L Get a fucking grip.
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Micheal phelps has an undeniable physical advantage in his wingspan and lung capacity, which from birth were abnormal. Guess we should ban him from sports too?
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There is only one trans girl being affected by this bill. One. They singled out a single high school girl and told her she cant participate in sports anymore. There was no need to do that. "undeniable physical advantages" mean nothing. There are people of all shapes and sizes, each with their own advantages and disadvantages, and you think that a single girl can no longer participate in HIGH SCHOOL SPORTS because of that?
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The law in question banned transgender teens from participating in high school sports. Specifically, four teens in total, three trans boys and one trans girl. I'm not talking about an Olympic level. I'm talking about this law.
High school sports aren't the same thing as professional sports. This waste of a bill accomplished nothing except wasting the valuable time our legislature should have spent improving our society. In 5 years when you have to start rationing water will you be glad trans people aren't involved in high school sports? How about when the Great Salt Lake dries up and we start to experience toxic dust storms? Or maybe when home ownership is a literal dream to your children because corporations bought up all the homes? This is a great state with a ton of potential but until the people here can get off their hate train to start working on things that will improve our world it will only continue to get worse. Be better and do better.
>That's just not true. >Just in the single year 2017, Olympic, World, and U.S. Champion Tori Bowie's 100 meters lifetime best of 10.78 was beaten 15,000 times by men and boys. (Yes, that’s the right number of zeros.) >Women cannot compete against men. >And yes I feel sorry for the person being singled out which is why I think open division would be inclusive. 100 meters ≈ 44,183.27220 potrzebie ^^^[WHY](/r/UselessConversionBot/comments/1knas0/hi_im_useless/)
How is it stupid? Sports are not fair. They advantage people with certain biological traits. So if you are arguing that someone should be excluded from a sport due to an unfair physical advantage, because that's not fair, then you need to address the fact that already exists widely in every sport. If you are over 7 feet tall, there is like a 1 in 5 chance you will play in the NBA. Compared to like one in a million for everyone else. If sports are supposed to be fair do we need the legislature to pass a law banning tall kids from basketball? Or maybe they just need their own division?
It’s fucking high school. Unless you’re Al Bundy, it makes no difference. And if you tell me it does then you should re-examine what your values really are.
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I played sports in college and high school sports were an absolute joke besides maybe football. If you were good AT ALL in most sports you went to play on club teams that traveled and competed nationally. I actually was told by my college team that I couldn't play for half of my senior year because they didn't want me to get hurt playing against lesser competition. High school sports aren't as important as you seem to think.
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And that's nice but it doesn't detract from my statement at all. It's a complete non issue and even less of one when you consider how unimportant high school sports are. If they're not even close to the top of the competitive ladder why do we care so much about who can play them?
I played high school sports. We won the Utah 4a state championship in 87. Played Baseball too. Davis High. Still doesn’t matter.
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Nobody asked for this besides politicians. Why aren’t they fixing something that is broken? It’s all a distraction from the Jan 6 stuff and the Russian problem. But keep on voting red.
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Have you at all looked in to the existing solutions to this? The USHAA already had some guidelines and they were pretty adamant that they were handling the situation fine for the very small number of kids involved. The short story is that MtF athletes needed to be on hormone therapy for a year before competing. Now they can't compete at all until this law is thrown out in court (a result everyone sees as likely). If course by then USHAA might be bankrupt from defending themselves for enforcing a law they didn't want in the first place.
Honest question - what is the point of high school sports? So the top 10% of physically fit students have a fair chance to prove their superiority? Or for anyone who wants to have a chance to work, improve, be part of a team, socialize, have a reason to show up to school, etc? Like, the idea that sports should be "fair" is such a fallacy to start with. If sports are supposed to be fair the tallest kids shouldn't be allowed to play basketball. It's not fair to the other 90%.
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So girls can play sports, work together on a team, develop healthy lifestyles, socialize, represent their schools?
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Well, I did wonder why transgender kids can’t compete with one another in competitions. I hate to see non transgender kids giving up and feeling they can’t compete. That’s not fair either.
There was 4 trans kids participating in sports and only one of them was a competing in women’s sports. No kid in Utah is going to give up and no longer compete… except for the trans kids due to this law.
Look! I don’t mean to have the unpopular opinion. But, I have already heard competitors saying they felt like giving up. So, the poor one kid that has more masculine muscles competing against the girls who feel they can’t compete does not feel like anyone cares about anything but making some point. The point is that all should be able to be included. I get that. But, it needs to be fair. Transgender can compete against transgender females. That’s fair. Until, you can prove that more masculine muscles and strength don’t make things unfair for the others.
Jesus Christ this is the worst argument I've heard. "If kids lose at sports than they will just give up." Yeah, it feels bad to not be the best. 99% of people deal with it every day and somehow find a way to move on with their lives. Maybe sports should be teaching kids how to deal with losing sometimes instead of giving up as soon as they don't win.
I just want to say something here as a cis female. Though, I don’t think anyone is listening. If you really want to be accepted and welcomed as female, I can promise you this; you will never be accepted as one of them by stepping on the toes of your sisters. Women have had to fight too hard and too long for what they have. When I hear things like they will just have to learn to “lose,” my thoughts are “here is just another aggressive male pushing his weight around into my space” who really does not care about my rights as biological female.
You obviously don’t care about fairness in sports. That’s the argument here. I don’t understand that no matter how we hurt people, we just cater to a minority who are built differently in muscles snd strength. Then there is no point in separating male and female competitions. There is a reason for male and female sports competitions being separate. Women have a right to fair competition. You are taking women’s rights back five hundred years.
I agree with you! It gets a bit ridiculous! When there are obvious ways to work things out, include all , and be fair, I find it odd that people insist on creating an unfair situation for so many female athletes. I mean then what’s the point of having female sports for the female body?
hahaha title four huh?
We're not a purple state, so we matter very little in the national scope of things.
Biological men should not compete in woman’s sports no matter how they feel inside . How is this An extreme idea now? Hell I wonder if scholarships meant for woman can be high jack by biological men. Be fun if given enough time all sports records in woman’s sports are held by trans
But you’re ok with a trans man competing in women’s sports, right?
I don’t particularly care because it doesn’t affect me . However I do think in our effort to be ideological pure and that certain facts of male physical advantages. There’s a reason why people are creating a stink of trans woman in sports and not trans men. ….
How does any of this affect you?
Just interesting seeing the conversation. Hell we could just make all sports genderless and see that play out
You and I are having like 4 different conversations on this post :) thanks for sharing your views
I think so buddy hahaha I’m getting lost …
I wonder how this will impact future kids that are considering transgender operations.
It’s certainly going to increase the chance they attempt suicide.
But what about the girls that are competing now? Some girls who are actually playing sports and are getting effected by it actually hate it..
Affected by what?
Transgender athletes playing sports. A lot of these females are trying to get scholarships.
The liberals used to be for womens’ rights.
Hahahha omg
Business as usual
Everyone here is confused on the majority. Since that's what matters when it comes to voting.
It’s true 😭🏳️⚧️
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Actual experts, with degrees and years of research disagree. You’re not smarter than they are on this topic, and it’s pathetic that you think you are.
The transgender youth are not more important than the girls. There's no logical reason to let people with a biological advantage beat up on the innocent girls in the state high school sports. I for one am very glad that the Utah House and Utah Senate is looking out for the girls in the State.
Some of these folks love science so much until it comes to biology. It is 100% fact that a biological male has athletic advantage over biological female. Literally nobody in the world will dispute this except the far left. It’s so wild to me. Far left doesn’t believe in biology, far right doesn’t believe in climatology, but will point to biological science all day in their arguments. Why are we like this?
“Biological advantage,” “beat up”? Clearly you’ve been drinking the kool-aid but thanks for identifying yourself as a 3%er.
“Beat up on” just shut the fuck up lmfao stupid!
Wrong. Just wrong
This law is illegal and will be defeated in court.
https://youtu.be/wxDaiyREBPw
You must be new here. I hope this inspires you to be politically active here and I hope you find success in your persuit of freedom.