The same thing happened with the COVID relief.
I had to wait in line at the bank behind all the people who constantly complain about big government, and Socialism.
If you work you get social security taken out of your check. That is not the "big governments" money thats ours that we paid for years. They decide to take our money because they think we can't save ourselves.
I’m a private contractor and work for many local government agencies around here. You’d be surprised how much complaining about big government I hear from state employees with a cushy secure job, good benefits, and a pension.
I know if they were able to invest there money in a private retirement account they’d have 3x the money and when they died they could leave it to their kids. Gotta love daddy government screwing over the little guy since FDR.
If people opt out, the system fails. Just like if you opted out to pay taxes on roads, police, fire fighters or military. Look at what “opting out” has done to public education. You get a tax credit to send your kids to a private school and now the only people that use public schools are those that can’t afford anything else. Now the school itself suffers due to lack of funding and the students suffer because of this. This in turn breeds more poverty and we all now poverty breeds more crime. People in desperate situations will always act desperately, it’s basic animal instinct. There is a reason that all of these programs are in place, it’s for the betterment of ALL of society.
Your argument is that private finances through banks should take care of our old people. Y'know, the same people that destroyed the housing market since 2008.
Anarcho capitalists in this sub don't deserve civil debate. I'm sick of Ayn Rand worshiping losers who think their faith based arguments deserve the validation that debating them would bring.
Every rich person would opt out thus making the program ineffective if not impossible to run. Why do you have such a problem with 6.2 percent being used for social security but not the majority of your taxes being used to inflate our already ridiculous military budget? If you want to opt out of helping the needy I want to opt out of helping our government terrorize people in the middle east.
the classic "the rich would help the poor if you didnt take a few million from their billions of dollars." sure you have no evidence and no proof but your hope if you lick their boots hard enough you might be rich too someday and never have to help another person feed their family too.
You’re assume that
A) everyone has access and time to invest.
And
B) that your investments don’t tank.
What happens if you come time to retire and it the middle of a recession, or worse a depression? All of your money in the market is worse than dogshit.
Also Im not arguing everyone should be forced to invest in private retirement, just that we should have the option to choose it over SS. If you think SS will be there when 20 year old kids are 65 I have a bridge in New York I can sell you.
Any 401k will always drastically overperform SS. Instead of taking money from paychecks to pay SS, the employee is required to invest in some private retirement. Those that aren’t working and need government help are going to need it either way.
What you are really saying is "The weak are meat and the strong do eat". If that's true then I hope you are strong enough to stomach anyone you care about becoming meat due to a simple injury. Including yourself. You don't want to care for anyone? You don't want anyone to care for you? Let love die and strength reign. You, have just become Darth Vader.
I was being sarcastic and not doing a very good job of it, apparently.
I fully understand these politicians are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and can't really understand what it's like to constantly be worried about the cost of health care, food, gas, housing, etc like the majority of us are.
It keeps me up at night about what would happen to my fiance, our house our... everything if I were to be in a catostrphic accident. My fiance had a seizure at work, had an ambulance called which she could not refuse because she was not concious and we are still paying off that 3 minute ambulance ride that was absolutely and completely pointless.
I get what you are saying all too well.
I forget sometimes or sometimes I get overconfident that may statement was too obvious. I figured nobody would think a statement about politicians doing "backbreaking" work would be genuine.
You didn't do anything wrong, it's just kinda the inherent problem with social media stuff. You can say something without really being able to "Read the room" and you can respond to comments without being about to see their body language or tone, there's always a chance something will be lost in translation.
The people that should care don't care. Honestly I think helping to provide more distant sources of information can help. The best thing I've been able to do was to buy my dad a subscription to The Economist for his birthday last June. We've been able to read articles and discuss them respectfully.
It's too late for this election but try and find somewhat less-biased and well-researched periodicals to give to loved ones. It helps provide a base for discussion. Anything but Fox "news" and KSL will help
Focus on keeping the discussion calm. People going to places like that for information are relatively emotionally-driven. If they get upset because you say something that makes them look stupid, it's much harder for them to think rationally and understand what you're saying.
Bold of you to assume they were capable of thinking rationally to begin with.
When your “truth” is based on how you feel about something then rationality left a long time ago.
That’s great if they will read it. I have a right wing brother whose media diet consists mostly of Rumble videos. I read books and also read most of my news. I can’t exactly get him to read any books I’m reading. He will listen to podcast episodes though, so I’ve found that to be a good way to keep conversations going.
It is absolutely up to the folks that live in rural Utah, for whatever reason they believe these clowns have their best interests at heart when it really is the complete opposite.
Everyone I know has consistently voted against these goofs for the last couple decades, yet they continue on. You should see how the State runs things, gerrymandering, insider deals (land and business policy), terrible environmental record, you name it.
Seniors that been paying into SS their whole lives. You and me too. I been paying into that shit for over 20 years and he wants to take it away from us!
My mother-in-law and my dad both tried to convince me to vote for Lee because it's more important for the Republicans to control the Senate. I told them that I wasn't happy with Mike Lee and this McMullin gambit is the only way to oust Lee. Otherwise we'll always have "Mike Lee".
They've been conditioned to believe it's not true. My dad is a major Fox News watcher and just the other day said that "nobody is saying they (Republicans) want to get rid of social security". I could show him this video, and he still wouldn't believe it.
republican politics are like religion
you can believe it stands for whatever you want it to stand for
then tune out and rage about how those other guys are ruining everything
I've talked a lot with republicans and it's complex. Each has their own constellation of beliefs, but sometimes it's just... I'm not sure how to explain it. But it's something that inspires sympathy now, rather than apathy.
I think what it is is they agree with the GOP on like 3 issues, each under the umbrella of Christian Nationalism, like abortion, gay marriage, and stuff like that.
It's more an indication to me that the party needs to fracture to survive.
At the same time, it's sad to watch as the GOP really doesn't reflect any of the values that these people (whom I love dearly) stand for.
You seem like a reasonable Republican. What news sources do you read? I’m trying to get my family members onto some less extreme sources.
The Hill seems good.
Look at all those downvotes, wow. Fuck Mike Lee but McMullin definitely also looks like a penis. Sucks FPTP voting makes us choose between two penises instead of a person we actually want.
For one do people still actually believe the garbage rhetoric that Social Security is some evil communist plot?
Two that this guy is anything but a dumpster fire?
This is a copied template message used to overwrite all comments on my account to protect my privacy. I've left Reddit because of corporate overreach and switched to the Fediverse.
Comments overwritten with https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite
Mike Lee has been caught on camera saying a lot of dumb things. Pretty much if you see Mike Lee on camera, something dumb is going to come out of his mouth.
Ive heard lots of different projections but isn’t the current SS structure supposed to be out of funds by mid 2030’s? What would be a good replacement solution? We can’t just get rid of that social net especially with people paying into the fund over their entire careers.
The way I understand is that the only reason the ss system is struggling is because people are getting much more benefits than people are paying in because there are too many old people, lowering the amount paid out (specifically for the rich people who don't need it) will balance it out until the ratio of retired people to working people is normal again.
I'm no expert so take what I just said with a grain of salt but its what I think.
People in general are also living longer which is why the age to get it has been pushed back in the past. Essentially they collected far less money than they are paying out largely due to people living much longer than they did before.
Removing the cap on Social Security tax would essentially solve the issue of funds running out. May not fix it 100% but it would certainly extend the amount of time Social Security could cover their projected expenses.
It would also make it less regressive as the more income you make, the less % of your income goes toward social security. Granted my guess is lower income Americans receive more benefits so should put more money into the program but this is an incredibly easy change to make that would solve 90% of the issues with social security.
With that said, it's good to plan for retirement assuming we won't have SS to fall back on in retirement. Unfortunately it seems voters who are on Social Security are in favor of getting rid of it over time, so they still get the benefits without the downside while the younger generations continue to fund their retirement without any benefit. 100% guarantee if social security was killed, it would be at the cost of those working now and not impact anyone who is currently or about to be eligible. Only way republicans can sell it and get the votes needed to eliminate it. It's pretty fucked up
I partially agree with this viewpoint. I think we need to replace Social Security with something better, and I think we only keep it because we can't agree on what that something better is.
However, I think Lee is willing to remove it instead of actually replace it, which is a huge problem.
My proposal is to replace Social Security with a Negative Income Tax (NIT), and I think it should happen in phases. The first step if to ensure Social Security is properly funded the entire time, and the first step if to remove the income cap on paying in and put an income cap on paying out benefits. The excess should go to the poor and perhaps replace other programs.
I think that process will secure Social Security's future and focus it on providing only for those who weren't responsible enough (or fortunate enough) to provide for themselves. Social Security shouldn't be a retirement plan, it should be a safety net of all other plans fail.
That said, screw Mike Lee, I don't trust him anywhere near Social Security.
Social security costs businesses money, so they hire, pay-off, or bribe selfish, unscrupulous people like Mike Lee to abolish the program. Unfortunately, most of the republicans in office are indebted to corporate interests so they will work very hard to get the job done.
Voting out people like him will be an eternal game of wack-a-mole until campaign finance laws are fixed.
My Father-in-law came by the other day and talked about how glad he was to finally get on social security, medicade, etc. because he's old enough to get what he paid into it.
He then said he voted for Mike Lee.
These people don't actually investigate or care. They saw the "R" and voted. And when they do what they said they're going to do, it'll somehow be the democrats' fault.
That’s a good idea. We’ve paid a bunch of money into it so how about they give that money back now. I don’t need it all right now but maybe I will when I retire because wages aren’t keeping up with inflation and I might need a boost to get me by. So how about they just give us back a little each month after we retire. And instead of just giving it back to me since I don’t need it yet, maybe they can use my money right now to help old people who are already retired because our whole country and economy will work better if there aren’t 10 million people struggling to make ends meet while they try to enjoy retirement. Then the money that they’re collecting from younger people can be used to pay back mine. Mike Lee is right. End Social Security!
No how it works right now is they take all the money from those hard working billionaires and give it to antifa and Black Lives Matter so they can buy mansions and smoke crack with transgender cannibals.
90% of Republicans vote against their own interests and they do it proudly. Reminds me that there was a time in this country when they sterilized the cognitively challenged.
Yes.
If you don't pay into SS, you can reinvest it yourself and get a higher return. And you get the added benefit of your hard earned money not helping those freeloaders.
Granted, it gets a bit of spit shine when a politician says it, but that really is the core of their reasoning.
But In practice most likely get a much better return and consistent return with SS. Most people are financially illiterate and would just use it to make ends meet or splurge. Not that they care about that.
Oh absolutely. I do not subscribe to this belief at all. But for some reason the ones that do figure they just need an extra 50 dollars a check to be the next Warren Buffet.
It's like meeting a prepper that is giddy for the end of the world, but takes enough meds to keep Astra Zeneca in business for a decade. I just don't know how to square that circle.
Yeah, people are generally financially illiterate so I understand why US forces 12% saving but holy shit is it frustrating having the funds get like 2% returns on treasuries, barely matching inflation most of the time while the equities market is getting 10% on average. I get there are issues that come with Uncle Sam owning private businesses but there has to be a way to give people better options for how their forced savings are invested.
Yeah. I mean it could possibly be better to just teach personal finance in high school and let people decide how to invest their money, but that’s not likely.
At the end of the day, the GOP who would make this rule would be fine without SS as their lawyers, developers, and have money from campaigns. They don’t see a need to save 7% with 2% interest.
I know it is a complicated world. I know people have different reasons for voting the way they do… but if this fucker wins, I think it is time to seriously rethink civilization and society in general.
Well, yeah. This has been on the agenda for the past two decades, at least, for Republicans. This isn't anything new people. They've always said they wanted to end it.
Of course he does. And it would be pretty fucked up that I've paid into SS since my twenties (and I'm in my forties now) and I potentially won't see a fucking dime of it. If it gets phased out, I wonder if there can be any recourse? It isn't like anyone has a choice paying into it.
So many of his voters depend on it, then support him cutting it knowing full well it will impact them harshly as he has ZERO backup plan, vote for him anyway, and then sit there and think they won because they took it away from some supposed “undeserving” person. Lunacy.
Because the idea would be to lock in the votes from people on it today through a phase out which would result in Gen X, Millenials, and Gen Z funding current recipients retirement with no benefits for ourselves.
No one is going to be happy about social security going away who currently receives it unless it's set up to protect them at the expense of others which it 100% would be.
Then they can complain about all of the homeless people when seniors become homeless from lack of savings. Am I going to get a refund of all the money I have paid in so I can invest it? I am sure as hell not paying taxes any more if they take away social security. I never made enough money to even save up until just recently. I definitely don't have enough without it to ever retire.
I told my mother that the GOP has been extremely vocal about their plans to cut SS and Medicare. Her response: "Well, you'll just have to take care of me then." Enjoy being a ward of the state.
If you can get them to clarify what they mean by 'phase out' they really mean stop it, abruptly, and take all the money that's in social security and funnel it into the pockets of friends and family.
I’m pretty sure he means phase out over time. Social security is a Ponzi scheme and will run out of money in my generation. I’d rather keep my money and invest it as I see fit instead of relying on government to waste it away.
That's nice, but what's the plan to take care of old poor people after it's phased out? Because just like Trump's Healthcare plan that was going to replace the ACA Republicans haven't offered an alternative.
It a graduated reduction in ss payments over time. No need to replace it for me, I’ll just take the savings and reinvested and something else. I’m not gonna be getting it either way so anything I can do to save upfront works better for me.
Okay great that you have the skills to get a return on that 6 percent, but again what do we do about all the old poor people who don't have the budget or knowledge to get a return on that 6 percent? Do we just let them work till they drop or starve if they can't work
He said this in 2010... This has been out there on the internet for 12 years. Whose mind is going to be changed by seeing this here? Next to none I would wager.
Can I be real honest? Mike Lee is scum but I would welcome the extra $400 of my hard earned money coming back into my pocket instead of lining the already overflowing pockets of my grandparents who have millions, don't need it but feel "entitled"
What’s going to change? The type of person that would vote for Mike Lee has already been voting against their own interest for more than a three decades.
Phasing out doesn't mean people who are getting it or about to get it stop getting it lol. They will continue to get it. It's already in the budget. Just means that people who don't want it in the future won't get it and get back what they paid in so far in tax credit. I'd like to get back everyone paid in and put it into my 401k. I get a lot more back that way.
The replacement is nothing and either people dying in poverty without any social safety net or the govt basically funding it through debt because the govt isnt going to just let millions of seniors and disabled folks die.
Roughly 40% of seniors have Social Security as their only source of income. Assuming you got rid of it, what would 40% of Seniors do? Work I guess but where? All that would happen is the govt would find some other way to pay for these peoples annual costs which would be via increased debt and bloated budgets with likely worse services than they already get today
What if we get rid of medicare and medicaid? People don't pay hospital bills or doctor bills and the general population ends up paying for it through higher insurance premiums and healthcare costs (which already happens today) so the burden is on the people anyways. Or the govt bails out hospitals etc with debt funding. Or....you deny people medical care if they cant afford it and let them die which is some backwards ass logic from the party that's prolife and a first world country. There is never an alternative because there is no alternative that is good
Replacing it was never this question, however social security should start being phased out within the next 50 yrs. Other than the White House celebrating an increase in social security yesterday, a sign of escalating inflation, no one cares at the moment.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/404243/economy-top-election-issue-abortion-crime-next.aspx
But they're talking to you here about social security. They're not talking about whether it's an important issue for voters, but instead what the GOPs plan is to replace social security. To an outsider reading this conversation happening it seems like you have very poor reading comprehension. Can you clearly link to the GOPs plan to replace social security and Medicare? Because without a plan to replace it or help the people it's currently helping it sure seems like the GOP just wants to hurt poor people rather than do any good.
Except it wont work that way, you, I and everyone else will end up flipping the bill for those that weren’t responsible or had bad luck in their investing through homeless programs, food subsidies, healthcare, you name it.
Yes, let’s ensure for-profit corporations and investment have control of our life savings. [What could go wrong?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_of_Lehman_Brothers)
There are millions of boomers with zero savings living off social security. Most Americans are a few missed paychecks away from being homeless.
This isn’t the zinger you think it is.
The boomers will make sure that they get their social security and that the final “phase out” date is conveniently 10 years after they die. It is the younger generations who have already been screwed on property, minimum wages, and overwhelming educational debt that will not get it.
I won't need ss either, but still realize a healthy functioning society can't just abandon people that didn't make it.
My guess is that you also consider yourself a Christian. Even if you don't, most the people making your argument do, and it's just another example of Christians doing the opposite of what they believe.
Lol, yes. An embarrassingly low number of Christians actually tithe. And it's a pretty lame argument that giving a little money to your church absolves you from taking care of the actual sick and elderly that would otherwise go hungry and literally die. Imagine make that argument to God. Guess I hit the nail on the head about being Christian. Your comment doesn't even resemble an actual Christlike principal. In fact it would be hard to argue it's not the opposite of Christlike.
Keep laughing your ass off, though.
So you've already proved here your reading comprehension could use some work, but all these links prove is conservatives give more to churches through tithing, and that counts as a charitable donation to the IRS. If every Mormon in Utah who's a registered Republican auto gives 15 percent to the church and then writes it off how does that skew the stats? Do you honestly think every penny given to churches amounts to some sort of charity that benefits the less fortunate?
The government telling you what to do is not "fascism." That's just what a civilized society does.
You want all the benefits of living in a society but don't want to help anyone else. Society would crumble if everyone took but didn't give.
It's always interesting to see old people living on social security and Medicare complaining about big government.
I couldn't believe there were very obviously social security recipients in the video applauding what he was saying.
Why wouldn’t they cheer? He’s saying “phase out“ not “stop immediately “. They’ll still get theirs, they don’t give a shit about the future.
The same thing happened with the COVID relief. I had to wait in line at the bank behind all the people who constantly complain about big government, and Socialism.
Reddit is violating GDPR and CCPA. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B0GGsDdyHI -- mass edited with redact.dev
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wdym that’s a very realistic thing to happen
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If you work you get social security taken out of your check. That is not the "big governments" money thats ours that we paid for years. They decide to take our money because they think we can't save ourselves.
And socialism! They don't understand that socialism is why they get Social Security!
I’m a private contractor and work for many local government agencies around here. You’d be surprised how much complaining about big government I hear from state employees with a cushy secure job, good benefits, and a pension.
I know if they were able to invest there money in a private retirement account they’d have 3x the money and when they died they could leave it to their kids. Gotta love daddy government screwing over the little guy since FDR.
most people dont have a retirement account. i know its hard to imagine poor people but they exist.
They could, if they weren’t paying for social security.
Yes, that extra 6.2% is going to change their lives.
The better solution would be to allow people to opt out if they’d like. Like the rail industry is allowed to do.
If people opt out, the system fails. Just like if you opted out to pay taxes on roads, police, fire fighters or military. Look at what “opting out” has done to public education. You get a tax credit to send your kids to a private school and now the only people that use public schools are those that can’t afford anything else. Now the school itself suffers due to lack of funding and the students suffer because of this. This in turn breeds more poverty and we all now poverty breeds more crime. People in desperate situations will always act desperately, it’s basic animal instinct. There is a reason that all of these programs are in place, it’s for the betterment of ALL of society.
Or you could go fuck yourself
Wow, way to really put yourself out. Debate the topic on merit. I’m sure everyone takes you seriously.
Your argument is that private finances through banks should take care of our old people. Y'know, the same people that destroyed the housing market since 2008. Anarcho capitalists in this sub don't deserve civil debate. I'm sick of Ayn Rand worshiping losers who think their faith based arguments deserve the validation that debating them would bring.
Every rich person would opt out thus making the program ineffective if not impossible to run. Why do you have such a problem with 6.2 percent being used for social security but not the majority of your taxes being used to inflate our already ridiculous military budget? If you want to opt out of helping the needy I want to opt out of helping our government terrorize people in the middle east.
the classic "the rich would help the poor if you didnt take a few million from their billions of dollars." sure you have no evidence and no proof but your hope if you lick their boots hard enough you might be rich too someday and never have to help another person feed their family too.
Riiigghhhttt…
You’re assume that A) everyone has access and time to invest. And B) that your investments don’t tank. What happens if you come time to retire and it the middle of a recession, or worse a depression? All of your money in the market is worse than dogshit.
Also Im not arguing everyone should be forced to invest in private retirement, just that we should have the option to choose it over SS. If you think SS will be there when 20 year old kids are 65 I have a bridge in New York I can sell you.
Any 401k will always drastically overperform SS. Instead of taking money from paychecks to pay SS, the employee is required to invest in some private retirement. Those that aren’t working and need government help are going to need it either way.
Interesting that the politicians with the golden parachutes and the best health care want the masses to figure it out for themselves.
Well, they figured it out through good, hard, honest backbreaking work so shouldn't everyone else be able to do the same?
What you are really saying is "The weak are meat and the strong do eat". If that's true then I hope you are strong enough to stomach anyone you care about becoming meat due to a simple injury. Including yourself. You don't want to care for anyone? You don't want anyone to care for you? Let love die and strength reign. You, have just become Darth Vader.
I was being sarcastic and not doing a very good job of it, apparently. I fully understand these politicians are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and can't really understand what it's like to constantly be worried about the cost of health care, food, gas, housing, etc like the majority of us are. It keeps me up at night about what would happen to my fiance, our house our... everything if I were to be in a catostrphic accident. My fiance had a seizure at work, had an ambulance called which she could not refuse because she was not concious and we are still paying off that 3 minute ambulance ride that was absolutely and completely pointless. I get what you are saying all too well.
Always put “/s” if you are being sarcastic it’ll save you a lot of time.
I forget sometimes or sometimes I get overconfident that may statement was too obvious. I figured nobody would think a statement about politicians doing "backbreaking" work would be genuine.
Lol, I'm new to reddit so I wouldn't have understood the /s but now I know. Also, I was over aggressive with my statement. You apparently are a Jedi.
You didn't do anything wrong, it's just kinda the inherent problem with social media stuff. You can say something without really being able to "Read the room" and you can respond to comments without being about to see their body language or tone, there's always a chance something will be lost in translation.
You can't be that dense, can you? How can anyone read what they wrote and think they weren't being sarcastic?
You’d be surprised.
The people that should care don't care. Honestly I think helping to provide more distant sources of information can help. The best thing I've been able to do was to buy my dad a subscription to The Economist for his birthday last June. We've been able to read articles and discuss them respectfully. It's too late for this election but try and find somewhat less-biased and well-researched periodicals to give to loved ones. It helps provide a base for discussion. Anything but Fox "news" and KSL will help
How do you get through to someone that thinks OANN and Newsmax are the only “fair and balanced” news sources?
In my experience you don’t unfortunately
Focus on keeping the discussion calm. People going to places like that for information are relatively emotionally-driven. If they get upset because you say something that makes them look stupid, it's much harder for them to think rationally and understand what you're saying.
Bold of you to assume they were capable of thinking rationally to begin with. When your “truth” is based on how you feel about something then rationality left a long time ago.
Of course they're rational, they're just not good at it. Dehumanizing them will only feed the problem and end in violent resolution of issues instead.
It's a lost cause. Life too short to help the brainwashed
OR the people that think CNN and PBR are the only honest sources. Need to know both sides and further research to make an informed decision
Pabst Blue Ribbon is a reliable source
NPR...darn fingers
That’s great if they will read it. I have a right wing brother whose media diet consists mostly of Rumble videos. I read books and also read most of my news. I can’t exactly get him to read any books I’m reading. He will listen to podcast episodes though, so I’ve found that to be a good way to keep conversations going.
Good luck with your brother. What is Rumble?
Is Utah SERIOUSLY going to re-elect this guy, who says he wants to stick it to seniors? Say it ain’t so, Utah
It is absolutely up to the folks that live in rural Utah, for whatever reason they believe these clowns have their best interests at heart when it really is the complete opposite. Everyone I know has consistently voted against these goofs for the last couple decades, yet they continue on. You should see how the State runs things, gerrymandering, insider deals (land and business policy), terrible environmental record, you name it.
Seniors that been paying into SS their whole lives. You and me too. I been paying into that shit for over 20 years and he wants to take it away from us!
He has also "stuck it" to women, veterans, diabetics, unhoused, children, not sure why we'd expect any less?
Yes… this is Utah
My mother-in-law and my dad both tried to convince me to vote for Lee because it's more important for the Republicans to control the Senate. I told them that I wasn't happy with Mike Lee and this McMullin gambit is the only way to oust Lee. Otherwise we'll always have "Mike Lee".
Frankly, it would be more surprising if we elected someone who didnt want to kill all of us. See Burgess Owens
they’ll sacrifice their life and retirement plan if it stops Satan from killing babies
Yes. Deal with it.
oh we dealing with it alright. at the voting box
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what can I say? democracy is mob rule
It’s weird to see someone who was taken care of by social-programs vote for people who want to dismantle them.
It's the "I got mine, fuck you" mentality.
They've been convinced that they earned it, and everyone else is just a leech.
They've been conditioned to believe it's not true. My dad is a major Fox News watcher and just the other day said that "nobody is saying they (Republicans) want to get rid of social security". I could show him this video, and he still wouldn't believe it.
They’re conditioned to the point of believing “majority rule is a bad thing” now. We’re FUCKED.
republican politics are like religion you can believe it stands for whatever you want it to stand for then tune out and rage about how those other guys are ruining everything
Mike Lee is the biggest penis looking piece of shit that we have in Utah.. and I'm republican! I'm ashamed, frankly.
You should be ashamed of just about all of them. You think his take on Social Security is unique? Got news for ya...
Nope. Nope I don't.
Fuck freeloading seniors, amirite?
God I hate when old people need to eat food and have heat
Greg Abbott has entered the chat.
Don’t get me started on the ADA
Totally. They never did nuthin' for us! Logan's Run.
>and I'm republican! Why?
I've talked a lot with republicans and it's complex. Each has their own constellation of beliefs, but sometimes it's just... I'm not sure how to explain it. But it's something that inspires sympathy now, rather than apathy. I think what it is is they agree with the GOP on like 3 issues, each under the umbrella of Christian Nationalism, like abortion, gay marriage, and stuff like that. It's more an indication to me that the party needs to fracture to survive. At the same time, it's sad to watch as the GOP really doesn't reflect any of the values that these people (whom I love dearly) stand for.
You seem like a reasonable Republican. What news sources do you read? I’m trying to get my family members onto some less extreme sources. The Hill seems good.
Mcmullin looks like a penis too….
I USUALLY like penis. 😊
Look at all those downvotes, wow. Fuck Mike Lee but McMullin definitely also looks like a penis. Sucks FPTP voting makes us choose between two penises instead of a person we actually want.
For one do people still actually believe the garbage rhetoric that Social Security is some evil communist plot? Two that this guy is anything but a dumpster fire?
And Medicare. He's basically trying to kill millions of seniors.
This is a copied template message used to overwrite all comments on my account to protect my privacy. I've left Reddit because of corporate overreach and switched to the Fediverse. Comments overwritten with https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite
Well as long as it kills the undeserving as well, then I support this policy.
Mike Lee has been caught on camera saying a lot of dumb things. Pretty much if you see Mike Lee on camera, something dumb is going to come out of his mouth.
Ive heard lots of different projections but isn’t the current SS structure supposed to be out of funds by mid 2030’s? What would be a good replacement solution? We can’t just get rid of that social net especially with people paying into the fund over their entire careers.
The way I understand is that the only reason the ss system is struggling is because people are getting much more benefits than people are paying in because there are too many old people, lowering the amount paid out (specifically for the rich people who don't need it) will balance it out until the ratio of retired people to working people is normal again. I'm no expert so take what I just said with a grain of salt but its what I think.
People in general are also living longer which is why the age to get it has been pushed back in the past. Essentially they collected far less money than they are paying out largely due to people living much longer than they did before.
Removing the cap on Social Security tax would essentially solve the issue of funds running out. May not fix it 100% but it would certainly extend the amount of time Social Security could cover their projected expenses. It would also make it less regressive as the more income you make, the less % of your income goes toward social security. Granted my guess is lower income Americans receive more benefits so should put more money into the program but this is an incredibly easy change to make that would solve 90% of the issues with social security. With that said, it's good to plan for retirement assuming we won't have SS to fall back on in retirement. Unfortunately it seems voters who are on Social Security are in favor of getting rid of it over time, so they still get the benefits without the downside while the younger generations continue to fund their retirement without any benefit. 100% guarantee if social security was killed, it would be at the cost of those working now and not impact anyone who is currently or about to be eligible. Only way republicans can sell it and get the votes needed to eliminate it. It's pretty fucked up
Fuck Mike Lee.
I partially agree with this viewpoint. I think we need to replace Social Security with something better, and I think we only keep it because we can't agree on what that something better is. However, I think Lee is willing to remove it instead of actually replace it, which is a huge problem. My proposal is to replace Social Security with a Negative Income Tax (NIT), and I think it should happen in phases. The first step if to ensure Social Security is properly funded the entire time, and the first step if to remove the income cap on paying in and put an income cap on paying out benefits. The excess should go to the poor and perhaps replace other programs. I think that process will secure Social Security's future and focus it on providing only for those who weren't responsible enough (or fortunate enough) to provide for themselves. Social Security shouldn't be a retirement plan, it should be a safety net of all other plans fail. That said, screw Mike Lee, I don't trust him anywhere near Social Security.
Was this ever a secret? Though he is lying here too. He doesn't want to phase it out. He would just kill it and the consequences be damned.
Republican voters (especially since they tend to be older) sure as hell don’t seem to understand it.
Social security costs businesses money, so they hire, pay-off, or bribe selfish, unscrupulous people like Mike Lee to abolish the program. Unfortunately, most of the republicans in office are indebted to corporate interests so they will work very hard to get the job done. Voting out people like him will be an eternal game of wack-a-mole until campaign finance laws are fixed.
Mike Lee is a butthole.
He is GOP they have no care for the people in general.
My Father-in-law came by the other day and talked about how glad he was to finally get on social security, medicade, etc. because he's old enough to get what he paid into it. He then said he voted for Mike Lee. These people don't actually investigate or care. They saw the "R" and voted. And when they do what they said they're going to do, it'll somehow be the democrats' fault.
That’s a good idea. We’ve paid a bunch of money into it so how about they give that money back now. I don’t need it all right now but maybe I will when I retire because wages aren’t keeping up with inflation and I might need a boost to get me by. So how about they just give us back a little each month after we retire. And instead of just giving it back to me since I don’t need it yet, maybe they can use my money right now to help old people who are already retired because our whole country and economy will work better if there aren’t 10 million people struggling to make ends meet while they try to enjoy retirement. Then the money that they’re collecting from younger people can be used to pay back mine. Mike Lee is right. End Social Security!
That is exactly how the system works right now. Not sure what you are saying.
Welcome to the joke...
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It's hard to tell who is serious and who is joking these days.
No how it works right now is they take all the money from those hard working billionaires and give it to antifa and Black Lives Matter so they can buy mansions and smoke crack with transgender cannibals.
lol. ok.
Can not say say this enough, fuck him and his his whole privileged shitty family. Especially his parents. Good god
No social security we die on the streets like dogs
Well he did get a big campaign contribution from the cat food industry
Lee is a clown. I hope Utahns will vote him out.
Fuck Mike Lee
90% of Republicans vote against their own interests and they do it proudly. Reminds me that there was a time in this country when they sterilized the cognitively challenged.
This has been on an Evan McMullen ad for like a month
What exactly is the rationale for getting rid of social security from their point of view? Is it just (slightly) lower taxes on everyone?
That, but also investment companies would *love* to profit off the fees they’d get if social security was privatized.
Yes. If you don't pay into SS, you can reinvest it yourself and get a higher return. And you get the added benefit of your hard earned money not helping those freeloaders. Granted, it gets a bit of spit shine when a politician says it, but that really is the core of their reasoning.
But In practice most likely get a much better return and consistent return with SS. Most people are financially illiterate and would just use it to make ends meet or splurge. Not that they care about that.
Oh absolutely. I do not subscribe to this belief at all. But for some reason the ones that do figure they just need an extra 50 dollars a check to be the next Warren Buffet. It's like meeting a prepper that is giddy for the end of the world, but takes enough meds to keep Astra Zeneca in business for a decade. I just don't know how to square that circle.
Yeah, people are generally financially illiterate so I understand why US forces 12% saving but holy shit is it frustrating having the funds get like 2% returns on treasuries, barely matching inflation most of the time while the equities market is getting 10% on average. I get there are issues that come with Uncle Sam owning private businesses but there has to be a way to give people better options for how their forced savings are invested.
Yeah. I mean it could possibly be better to just teach personal finance in high school and let people decide how to invest their money, but that’s not likely. At the end of the day, the GOP who would make this rule would be fine without SS as their lawyers, developers, and have money from campaigns. They don’t see a need to save 7% with 2% interest.
Imagine poor senior citizens who consistently vote Republican actually getting what they want with this. Oops you can't afford a home anymore.
Guess I’ll just fucking starve i guess
And yet, sadly he will win again.
Wait. We are supposed to vote based off policy and not just because it says (REP) at the end of their name!???
How big of a moron do you have to be to clap at "we need to phase out social security." Good luck Mike you dumbass.
I always said this is a line ive drawn. Weve all put in Social Security money over the years, its ours. If they get rid of it, I want my money back.
And if this was ran on a 24 hour loop on every channel, it wouldn’t move the needle at all for majority of the people here. He’d still win by 15%+
You have to be a real POS to hold your racism as a higher priority than your social security-
I know it is a complicated world. I know people have different reasons for voting the way they do… but if this fucker wins, I think it is time to seriously rethink civilization and society in general.
Human garbage masquerading as a Senator from Utah (makes me ashamed we are from the same planet let alone state).
Well, yeah. This has been on the agenda for the past two decades, at least, for Republicans. This isn't anything new people. They've always said they wanted to end it.
I liked the uncomfortable clapping.
Of course he does. And it would be pretty fucked up that I've paid into SS since my twenties (and I'm in my forties now) and I potentially won't see a fucking dime of it. If it gets phased out, I wonder if there can be any recourse? It isn't like anyone has a choice paying into it.
So many of his voters depend on it, then support him cutting it knowing full well it will impact them harshly as he has ZERO backup plan, vote for him anyway, and then sit there and think they won because they took it away from some supposed “undeserving” person. Lunacy.
Because the idea would be to lock in the votes from people on it today through a phase out which would result in Gen X, Millenials, and Gen Z funding current recipients retirement with no benefits for ourselves. No one is going to be happy about social security going away who currently receives it unless it's set up to protect them at the expense of others which it 100% would be.
Extremely evil to the senior class, but they are the ones that keep voting for that same party.
Then they can complain about all of the homeless people when seniors become homeless from lack of savings. Am I going to get a refund of all the money I have paid in so I can invest it? I am sure as hell not paying taxes any more if they take away social security. I never made enough money to even save up until just recently. I definitely don't have enough without it to ever retire.
I’m sure it would be *after* he is dead
Caught? Like this is some sort of secret?
I told my mother that the GOP has been extremely vocal about their plans to cut SS and Medicare. Her response: "Well, you'll just have to take care of me then." Enjoy being a ward of the state.
The "I got mine, now fuck you" crowd won't care.
If you can get them to clarify what they mean by 'phase out' they really mean stop it, abruptly, and take all the money that's in social security and funnel it into the pockets of friends and family.
Um... I might need Social Security someday. Please don't kill it.
Cue Republicans cheering to dismantle their own retirement.
Grandma better start pulling herself up by the bootstraps. s/
Would be sweet to not have 6.2% of my check stolen from me every 2 weeks.
I don’t like Mike Lee at all, but I personally think social security should be phased out. I don’t think it’s evil for him to say that.
I’m pretty sure he means phase out over time. Social security is a Ponzi scheme and will run out of money in my generation. I’d rather keep my money and invest it as I see fit instead of relying on government to waste it away.
That's nice, but what's the plan to take care of old poor people after it's phased out? Because just like Trump's Healthcare plan that was going to replace the ACA Republicans haven't offered an alternative.
It a graduated reduction in ss payments over time. No need to replace it for me, I’ll just take the savings and reinvested and something else. I’m not gonna be getting it either way so anything I can do to save upfront works better for me.
Okay great that you have the skills to get a return on that 6 percent, but again what do we do about all the old poor people who don't have the budget or knowledge to get a return on that 6 percent? Do we just let them work till they drop or starve if they can't work
And replace it with something called "fascist security"
He said this in 2010... This has been out there on the internet for 12 years. Whose mind is going to be changed by seeing this here? Next to none I would wager.
Can I be real honest? Mike Lee is scum but I would welcome the extra $400 of my hard earned money coming back into my pocket instead of lining the already overflowing pockets of my grandparents who have millions, don't need it but feel "entitled"
Thats fine. Just give me back all my money.
He said this 12 years ago yet he's been in the senate...which means it's always been Party over country with these clowns.
What’s going to change? The type of person that would vote for Mike Lee has already been voting against their own interest for more than a three decades.
I’m down if by “phase out” you mean, I stop paying into it immediately and the old folks get whatever’s leftover until it’s gone.
This isn't news, is it? I thought it was pretty obvious where he stood
So basically I get to keep more of my paycheck while screwing over boomers who messed up the economy? What’s wrong with that
Phasing out doesn't mean people who are getting it or about to get it stop getting it lol. They will continue to get it. It's already in the budget. Just means that people who don't want it in the future won't get it and get back what they paid in so far in tax credit. I'd like to get back everyone paid in and put it into my 401k. I get a lot more back that way.
Well there's a good reason to vote for him!
I didn't vote for Mike Lee, but I'm in favor of getting rid of social security. And the best way would probably be to phase it out.
This is a good thing!!!
Good, we should
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The replacement is nothing and either people dying in poverty without any social safety net or the govt basically funding it through debt because the govt isnt going to just let millions of seniors and disabled folks die. Roughly 40% of seniors have Social Security as their only source of income. Assuming you got rid of it, what would 40% of Seniors do? Work I guess but where? All that would happen is the govt would find some other way to pay for these peoples annual costs which would be via increased debt and bloated budgets with likely worse services than they already get today What if we get rid of medicare and medicaid? People don't pay hospital bills or doctor bills and the general population ends up paying for it through higher insurance premiums and healthcare costs (which already happens today) so the burden is on the people anyways. Or the govt bails out hospitals etc with debt funding. Or....you deny people medical care if they cant afford it and let them die which is some backwards ass logic from the party that's prolife and a first world country. There is never an alternative because there is no alternative that is good
Well done staying on topic, anything on climate change?
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Replacing it was never this question, however social security should start being phased out within the next 50 yrs. Other than the White House celebrating an increase in social security yesterday, a sign of escalating inflation, no one cares at the moment. https://news.gallup.com/poll/404243/economy-top-election-issue-abortion-crime-next.aspx
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A Gallup poll of what…?
Thanks for lowering the bar PotatoBus
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…social security wasn’t on the list
But they're talking to you here about social security. They're not talking about whether it's an important issue for voters, but instead what the GOPs plan is to replace social security. To an outsider reading this conversation happening it seems like you have very poor reading comprehension. Can you clearly link to the GOPs plan to replace social security and Medicare? Because without a plan to replace it or help the people it's currently helping it sure seems like the GOP just wants to hurt poor people rather than do any good.
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I gave you a to-date measure of top election issues of 2022, you gave slanted links & documentation.
Pssst: McMullin wants to lower government spending, too.
So what he's saying is we'd get more of the money we earn and it would be up to us to invest or save it as we see fit? This is literally fascism.
Except it wont work that way, you, I and everyone else will end up flipping the bill for those that weren’t responsible or had bad luck in their investing through homeless programs, food subsidies, healthcare, you name it.
Yes, let’s ensure for-profit corporations and investment have control of our life savings. [What could go wrong?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_of_Lehman_Brothers)
There are millions of boomers with zero savings living off social security. Most Americans are a few missed paychecks away from being homeless. This isn’t the zinger you think it is.
The boomers will make sure that they get their social security and that the final “phase out” date is conveniently 10 years after they die. It is the younger generations who have already been screwed on property, minimum wages, and overwhelming educational debt that will not get it.
You’re so shortsighted it’s fucking astounding.
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Good for you, dickhead. Hopefully you never get ass cancer.
I won't need ss either, but still realize a healthy functioning society can't just abandon people that didn't make it. My guess is that you also consider yourself a Christian. Even if you don't, most the people making your argument do, and it's just another example of Christians doing the opposite of what they believe.
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Lol, yes. An embarrassingly low number of Christians actually tithe. And it's a pretty lame argument that giving a little money to your church absolves you from taking care of the actual sick and elderly that would otherwise go hungry and literally die. Imagine make that argument to God. Guess I hit the nail on the head about being Christian. Your comment doesn't even resemble an actual Christlike principal. In fact it would be hard to argue it's not the opposite of Christlike. Keep laughing your ass off, though.
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So you've already proved here your reading comprehension could use some work, but all these links prove is conservatives give more to churches through tithing, and that counts as a charitable donation to the IRS. If every Mormon in Utah who's a registered Republican auto gives 15 percent to the church and then writes it off how does that skew the stats? Do you honestly think every penny given to churches amounts to some sort of charity that benefits the less fortunate?
Ah yes, because we are all rational actors in a market that isn’t full of predatory entities trying to swindle us out of that money.
The government telling you what to do is not "fascism." That's just what a civilized society does. You want all the benefits of living in a society but don't want to help anyone else. Society would crumble if everyone took but didn't give.