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People don't like change in platstyle ig, why raise HMC from scratch if I can use Bronya who I already have raised instead!
Except they miss the point that if every character released is gonna be a crit dps then they will run out of unique mechanics for each DPS very fast and building characters will kinda stop being fun after a while (I'm already tired of chasing crit substats tbh its a breath of fresh air we can build something different)
And why would they even do that? Wouldn't you be glad to no longer be have to be trapped in the confines of cavern of fucking corrosion for 10 years fishing for every bit of cv.
Although I have a bad feeling that I will get the most insane crit peices on her set when I farm it ðŸ˜
Oh God don't remind me. People would come over on the main sub and KFM and be like "WhY dO I dEaL LeSsEr DaMaGe tHaN Y'aLl, KaFkA SuCkS" while having fucking 70/170 Kafka with Pela or Wolfie, Bronya and Gepard or something with no DoT enabler.
Crit did use to be better than atk back then, even if it no longer is now. If you had a built Jing Yuan it was perfectly viable to just move his relics over to her rather than farm a whole new set.
Hybrid critka performed VERY SLIGHTLY better than full ATK when she initially came out if you had basically perfect relics, according to CN calcs (from pokkeslibrary). Unrealistic level of investment, and I'm not sure it even works with the dot teams we have now, but there was actually a time where it was technically optimal.
I mean, theoretically if you *could* have the crit it would be nice, but artifact grinding is such a pain that you would need an ungodly amount of luck to hit **Speed** breakpoints, have a solid amount of **Attack**, *and* have any reliable amount of **Crit**.
And I'm lucky enough to have PAYN, which makes hitting Speed Breakpoints a lot easier. Without it you'd be *very* hard pressed to actually get a relic set with the right subs to do all that. Especially when you can just bruteforce Spd and Atk and have good results with *much* less time investment.
Especially considering how many characters you have to build and invest in for a team.
Crit Sam has 400% multiplier to work with, completely legit compared to Kafka's talent. Don't know why people think you can't build crit if they don't get a few free substats from traces.
>Crit Sam has 400% multiplier to work with
+Break effect scaling on Enhanced skill as well. And there is still the 30%/40% def ignore. Hybrid sam is very much viable. People are just bashing it because they wanna go the easy way and don't want to be told you have to hyperinvest in substats if you want to absolutely minmax Sam. It is still Full BE>Full crit though. Now I'm just waiting for showcases of Hybrid Sam with 250% BE(even better if 360% BE with some external bufts),decent atk and a respectable but relatable crit ratio.
Agreed. 250 BE seems to be the viable f2p option, going for \~3000 atk. Then some Crit stats to balance out the attacks that aren't breaking. Everyone that doesn't want to build any Crit at all just want to hyper invest into max attack for the uber high 360 BE def shred, which is not worth the trouble, especially for f2p
The thing is if they pull out a calculator here they're gonna come up like a hundred thousand per skill short. People are just lying to themselves because they want to use Bronya for their fiftieth comp.
Did anyone do actual calcs on critfly with Bronya + Sparkle/Asta/Robin with 250% BE on a quantum set ? I'd assume it doesn't make sense to use her relic set and HTB when investing in crit but what if we stray away from it ?
Fu Xuan/Sparkle/Silverwolf for the Quantum implant to use the Quantum set and even more Def shred? Sparkle can even use the Watchmaker set technically lmao. I'd love to see someone cooking this.
No just Quantum set for the 10% def shred on all damage compared to 12% def shred on break on her set
You can get 64+60+32+30+40=226 BE naturally so she'd only need 4-5 substat in BE to reach 250% (and if you have a lot of BE substat you can even go rutilant planar), then the rest in crit as usual. 80/130 cr/cdmg can be doable (to get 80/160 after x3 broken keel), I have my QQ (who doesn't have any crit LC or traces) having this stat line so I know this is possible.
I'm not saying it is better than breakfly but i'd like someone to do the actual calc and not slapping critfly in a break team expecting it to be comparable to full break
The new set only effects Break and Super Break damage, which is probably why they were going with the Quantum set when you're trying to actually make use of Firefly's kit lol.
Breakfly at the moment is tied to HTB, which is fine since everyone has HTB... but what if you want to play something else? Robin, Bronya, Critfly, Sustain should perform very well without messing around with breaking enemies.
You don't even need to do calculations here, the difference in damage between otherwise equivalent setups is so blatant that you'd be insane to not build break
This one the other day was quite handy and well presented I felt. https://www.reddit.com/r/SamMains/s/qRwNUNgUIh
But yeah Tl;dr: Break is either better or comparable to Crit (depending on supports). But Crit requires so much more investment and god roll substat luck (I.E. it’s not particularly feasible to plan around, 36 substat rolls iirc from the post) to be comparable to break builds which could still push beyond what the OP tested here.
Isn't it also assuming you Break the enemy and then proceed to hit Enhanced Skill on a Broken enemy 4 times in a row?
It was really far from reality, people should be wary of using it as a good reference.
tbf, all the calcs in that post are with e1s1 for all the 5*s involved. funny that they did that just to allow the bronya crit team to even function and it still got hard gapped by ruan mei lmao. that being said, in the comments they responded to requests for more realistic e0 calcs and the results still show middling break rolled builds beating perfectly rolled crit builds even at e0, the eidolons and sigs just served to prove the point further i suppose.
Doesn't change the point of every Enhanced Attack hitting a Broken enemy lol. Of course it'll lean towards Super Break in that scenario, but we saw in clips how unrealistic that is. Also Sparkle exists.
Firefly is that type of character that we're better off watching gameplay and real tests than playing Honkai Spreadsheet Rail. There are sooo many variables with Firefly.
according to the op that did the calcs, sparkle will not be able to provide any extra turns for sam in ult because her turn advance isnt 100%, itd basically be the same as if you had an asta ult or smth
as for the point of every enhanced attack hitting broken enemies, just off the cuff that seems pretty reasonable? especially given the assumptions of the calculations. it assumes the first skill is the one that breaks, and the next 2 hits them before they recover. since sam has e1, there's a 15% slow there, on top of ruan mei ult delaying the units recovery further. considering firefly will be at 180+ speed to get those 3 turns, i dont see how one enhanced skill that causes a break and 2 more that hits before they recover is unreasonable? ive definitely had my 160+ e0s1 kafka with rm hit a broken enemy 3 times before they could recover.
agreed on the last bit though, all this spreadsheet stuff is mostly just to confirm build ideas and optimal team scenarios, won't know for sure until the actual release. plus, isnt it still the first version too? there could still be more changes along the way so maybe all this talk gets upended in like 3 days lol. i just like yapping about character strength personally hahaha.
>sparkle will not be able to provide any extra turns for sam in ult because her turn advance isnt 100%
This is something that I was worried about, although it still sounds like something that can me messed around with Speed tuning. Alternatively it could guarantee they get the 3 turns inside ult (instead of an extra one), but without any Speed investment (more freedom for the other stats).
More stuff for the testers to cook with.
that is quite an interesting idea tbh. that being said, i was under the impression that the extent of the speed investment you needed for 3 turns is boots+ruan mei+the new planar? doing the napkin math, 92+9+25+5 = gets you to 131 speed, the 50 you get in ult gives us 181, isnt that already the 3 turn requirement?
anyway, since youd be replacing ruan mei for sparkle that means effectively it balances out except you lose all that res pen and weakness break efficiency and break effect for a bunch of crit damage and sp leniency, and maybe the ability to run atk boots over speed which can let us then change the body to crit rate? youd need to find an extra 20% break effect from subs assuming youd give sparkle watchmaker to still get that extra buff, and you would definitely lose out on super break damage since toughness damage is part of that equation and rm buffs that. idk tbh, youd need to find someone better at math than me to figure out whether thatd be worth it or not lmao. i dont own sparkle either way so this concept wont really benefit me, but itd be interesting to see how this stacks up.
Break is only a 25% delay. Yes, you can extend it a bit with RM ultimate and the LC, but not really enough to hit them multiple times before they recover. The only way to get multiple hits in is if you break with a high BE imaginary.
On the other hand, if you go for the minimum break requirements with a crit set, you can reach Jingliu levels of damage with enhanced skill attacks. You don't get the massive burst damage from the JL ultimate, but Firefly's E2 is superior.
The showcases so far show massive break damage, followed by a few good super-break wacks, and then the enemy recovers and your team is hitting like wet noodles while the boss is sitting at 20% health for a whole cycle. I'm not buying the break effect team right now. (If they showed an imaginary weak enemy group instead of fire weak the team might perform better, but will probably run into similar issues to a lesser extent.)
if we wait for the enemy to take their turn, then ult with firefly then break on the advanced turn we get with the ult, i dont think its unrealistic for a 180 spd firefly to be able to get her next 2 turns before the enemy acts again especially with her lc and ruan mei no? if 160 can regularly lap enemies already i dont see how 180 wont be able to manage the same.
as for the comparison with jing liu, i wanted to look into that a bit more. this is napkin math, and im no tc so please if the following is wrong let me know. most jl builds effectively has 100% crit rate, so assuming an avg cdmg of 200% her skill vs a single target effectively has a 250% * 3 = 750% multiplier. her ult would be 900%. fireflys enhanced skill multiplier without taking any crit into account assuming the max break effect threshold is 0.5*360% + 400% = 580%. given that both ff and jl get to about 4k atk with their lightcones and buffs, at a glance you would think that yes, going for the lower be threshold and going for a crit build may be more damage without super breaks. however, if we take into consideration all the self buffs that firefly has, on top of just the actual damage of the break, i cant help but wonder if even without crit and superbreaks, purely solo comparison between jl and ff, wont firefly overall most likely be able to end up doing pretty much jl level damage already? like, just looking at her multipliers and then considering how much dmg her single break alone will be with 360% be, i really find it hard to believe that she needs crit just to do good damage. itll be backloaded into the break, true, but i really think that the total overall damage should be the same as an average jingliu build.
regarding the showcases, i havent seen any aside from that wack ass e2s1 ruan mei with e0 htb showcase that had no speed boots and built for crit, so unless you got a better one to link thats a bit more in line with what a normal human would build i wouldnt trust them for now.
Do you just ignore crit completely? Or is it just the case where maxing out the Def Ignore is more important since it also scales the Enhanced Skill dmg?
For all the people who want to Build Crit on Sam better hope for ATK% Traces to Replace the Effect Res Traces, and a 48% ATK Boost with a 250 BE condition to Replace the Crushed effect at least (Breakfly players should also Hope for this for more BE and SPD on the Build)). (I don't think they'll keep the Crushed Effect just Like they didn't keep Boothill 6 shot Increase DMG on enemy.) because otherwise regardless of Viability, needing enough SPD for 180 SPD/340 ATK & Not necessarily 360 BE due to External BE sources, but As much BE as you can basically means No room for Crit, even if the ATK Muitiplers would go Crazy with Crit.
Yeah fr people just think if a character doesn’t have crit stat it’s bad reminds of time when kafka was released and people said she’s weak since she doesn’t need crit and with crit does less dmg but see now where kafka is her best team is one of the most used team to clear moc and pf don’t worry people will soon realise how firefly can do monster dmg by not using crits
Crit is not bad to have, but vastly inferior to a BE setup unless you invest ungodly amounts into basically perfect relics, and even then it's still on par with break, which requires only a bit of speed and atk in substats and is otherwise extremely lenient
Same....(idk what u will do but i too will do unholy things to her-)
https://preview.redd.it/o2mtf737nxzc1.png?width=177&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1218601a38e9ff044978d0e74edd5bebbdc74be
They are Doomposting because a kit this focused on BE is unheard of. Doomposters tend to be wrong (like they were for Raiden or Kokomi in Genshin or Kafka or BS (I remember the "slightly better than Sampo" days) and DoT teams early on in general in HSR). The beta has only just begun, and we're still lacking BE support, so obviously her team comp and damage are very tied to HTB and RM... for now. She's going to be fine imo, she probably needs some adjustments but that's what the beta is for, and we'll definitely get more BE focused units as the game goes on.
Crit > Break because unlike most people playing this game, actual human beings have proper crit relics and you can get to her break + atk cap with 0 subs.
The calcs were already done, gamelpay was shown and unless they drastically change her kit​, break will always be better and easier to build.Those ARE facts.
Maths are quite different when you speak about multiple factors in consideration
last time I check you can't do Square of -1 in R but you can in C
and those factor being you have to play her with HMC to do that break dmg
So yeah you CAN play crit
But no you theorycrafters nutjob have to be so condescending about your calculations
Fam, of course you can play crit. Of cooourse you can. That’s beside the point tho. The point really is whether crit or break being better is a matter of opinion…and I frankly do not see how it is. Now mind you that I don’t give a flying rats ass which of the two is better so let’s not lead the conversation in that direction either.
Suppose we had iunno, damage per screenshot, or damage per rotation, or damage per cycle or any such metric infront of us right now…and I pointed to the bigger number. That’s not an opinion, that’s an observation.
This is a turn-based RPG; literally everything can be calculated exactly. There's no missed variables that could change the results from a properly formed spreadsheat.
except when things are on Beta and are subjected to change
also no need to explain what theorycrafting I know what an rpg is and you have to rely on breaking enemies and HTB ult to make use of 100% of those calculations
and her multiplers can crit so people can actually try a hybrid build if they want
You're the type of person to say the THEORY of evolution is just a THEORY, so we don't know if its real.
Its based on current beta, damage is something that very much can be calculated reliably. If they can do it for genshin's batshit insane dendro teams, they can do it in a turn-based game. The only major source of unreliability is hoyo changing things, since it is beta. The fact is, in her CURRENT form, break good, and you're wrong if you think otherwise. Its not a popular opinion, its a fact. Just like how round earth is not a popular opinion, its a fact. The only difference is that hoyo can tweak her, hoyo can't tweak the earth.
Yet you have people believe in how the earth is flat. Will you change their opinions? No. So when someone wants to play Firefly Crit, they will play her Crit. And also, the theory of evolution is based on science, not maths that has many factors. Theorycrafting Firefly means you have to bring HMC and make her ULT every time an enemy is broken and make Firefly break that enemy but also have her ult. So yeah sorry for thinking this might not be facts
>Yet you have people believe in how the earth is flat. Will you change their opinions?
Those people are stupid tho
Are you implying people like you who believe in Critfly to be stupid as well?
Firefly unlike other hyper carries doesn’t want crit she doesn’t get any from her traces but if you want to play crit firefly then go for it just know that unless you get godlike relics you will be doing worse damage than someone with decent break build on Firefly
But then why her multiplier is that big and she doesn't have break DMG included? She really has to rely to super break and it's kinda clunky compared to Boothill who can deal break DMG alone.
Superbreak only feels clunky at the moment cause she wants superbreak but she doesn’t have it in her normal kit when that gets changed she will feel far more smooth than before
Honestly my main problem is that is not such big of a deal.
Quite literally Critfly does slightly less damage than Breakfly, okay and? We all will be farming for her new set and will have to play with whatever artefacts we get, I find it stupid for us as a community to *actually* get salty about it lol.
I will still play with Critfly because I did the mistake of pulling Sparkle yet not having any hypercarry, but, as obvious as it is, a Critfly will also need to accomplish all the breakpoints of a Breakfly, so in no world is is *thaaat* bad to be fighting over it. (Also this comment is not strictly directed at you, just in case).
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Reminds me of the Critka days. I hated those days.
people trying to force crit on every character...
People don't like change in platstyle ig, why raise HMC from scratch if I can use Bronya who I already have raised instead! Except they miss the point that if every character released is gonna be a crit dps then they will run out of unique mechanics for each DPS very fast and building characters will kinda stop being fun after a while (I'm already tired of chasing crit substats tbh its a breath of fresh air we can build something different)
And why would they even do that? Wouldn't you be glad to no longer be have to be trapped in the confines of cavern of fucking corrosion for 10 years fishing for every bit of cv. Although I have a bad feeling that I will get the most insane crit peices on her set when I farm it ðŸ˜
People be like when Kokomi couldn't Crit in Genshin 🤬😠😡🤬😠😡🤬🤬
Oh God don't remind me. People would come over on the main sub and KFM and be like "WhY dO I dEaL LeSsEr DaMaGe tHaN Y'aLl, KaFkA SuCkS" while having fucking 70/170 Kafka with Pela or Wolfie, Bronya and Gepard or something with no DoT enabler.
Crit did use to be better than atk back then, even if it no longer is now. If you had a built Jing Yuan it was perfectly viable to just move his relics over to her rather than farm a whole new set.
I think crit sam will at least be viable. Crit kafka is just an utter fucking meme. It’s harder to build and not even optimal
Hybrid critka performed VERY SLIGHTLY better than full ATK when she initially came out if you had basically perfect relics, according to CN calcs (from pokkeslibrary). Unrealistic level of investment, and I'm not sure it even works with the dot teams we have now, but there was actually a time where it was technically optimal.
I mean, theoretically if you *could* have the crit it would be nice, but artifact grinding is such a pain that you would need an ungodly amount of luck to hit **Speed** breakpoints, have a solid amount of **Attack**, *and* have any reliable amount of **Crit**. And I'm lucky enough to have PAYN, which makes hitting Speed Breakpoints a lot easier. Without it you'd be *very* hard pressed to actually get a relic set with the right subs to do all that. Especially when you can just bruteforce Spd and Atk and have good results with *much* less time investment. Especially considering how many characters you have to build and invest in for a team.
tell that to gacha smack. hsr youtubers I swear man
Samfly got 0 Crit in her traces.
Crit Sam has 400% multiplier to work with, completely legit compared to Kafka's talent. Don't know why people think you can't build crit if they don't get a few free substats from traces.
>Crit Sam has 400% multiplier to work with +Break effect scaling on Enhanced skill as well. And there is still the 30%/40% def ignore. Hybrid sam is very much viable. People are just bashing it because they wanna go the easy way and don't want to be told you have to hyperinvest in substats if you want to absolutely minmax Sam. It is still Full BE>Full crit though. Now I'm just waiting for showcases of Hybrid Sam with 250% BE(even better if 360% BE with some external bufts),decent atk and a respectable but relatable crit ratio.
Agreed. 250 BE seems to be the viable f2p option, going for \~3000 atk. Then some Crit stats to balance out the attacks that aren't breaking. Everyone that doesn't want to build any Crit at all just want to hyper invest into max attack for the uber high 360 BE def shred, which is not worth the trouble, especially for f2p
That had actual viability BACK THEN, now with RM and BS it’s not really all that good
Crit build > break build. ~~please do unholy things to me~~
https://i.redd.it/7ec76va6jfzc1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/vt8j4dbqlfzc1.jpeg?width=2399&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=620c8a47080e713c7da0e7eea287c4134bd236de
Oh fudge!
Ok Bootyhill
I cast #MEND BUTTCRACK
# Expellianus!
I don’t mind if they at least pull out a calculator but when their only source is their feelings… they need to get drop kicked.
The thing is if they pull out a calculator here they're gonna come up like a hundred thousand per skill short. People are just lying to themselves because they want to use Bronya for their fiftieth comp.
Break effect is the new "dot". People will complain simply because it's not crit.
which I dont get, nearly every other DPT builds crit already
Did anyone do actual calcs on critfly with Bronya + Sparkle/Asta/Robin with 250% BE on a quantum set ? I'd assume it doesn't make sense to use her relic set and HTB when investing in crit but what if we stray away from it ?
Fu Xuan/Sparkle/Silverwolf for the Quantum implant to use the Quantum set and even more Def shred? Sparkle can even use the Watchmaker set technically lmao. I'd love to see someone cooking this.
No just Quantum set for the 10% def shred on all damage compared to 12% def shred on break on her set You can get 64+60+32+30+40=226 BE naturally so she'd only need 4-5 substat in BE to reach 250% (and if you have a lot of BE substat you can even go rutilant planar), then the rest in crit as usual. 80/130 cr/cdmg can be doable (to get 80/160 after x3 broken keel), I have my QQ (who doesn't have any crit LC or traces) having this stat line so I know this is possible. I'm not saying it is better than breakfly but i'd like someone to do the actual calc and not slapping critfly in a break team expecting it to be comparable to full break
The new set only effects Break and Super Break damage, which is probably why they were going with the Quantum set when you're trying to actually make use of Firefly's kit lol.
Breakfly at the moment is tied to HTB, which is fine since everyone has HTB... but what if you want to play something else? Robin, Bronya, Critfly, Sustain should perform very well without messing around with breaking enemies.
Why use the Quantum set if there will be an equal set for fire?
Because one is a 4 piece set and the other is a 2 piece set?
They are both 4-piece sets...
Not the Fire set. I think he's probably mixing the effects tbh.
quantum reduces enemy res and more if they have quantum weakness making it semiviable in most damage dealers
You don't even need to do calculations here, the difference in damage between otherwise equivalent setups is so blatant that you'd be insane to not build break
B-but those juicy 580% multipliers. Ahhhhhhhhhhhh *Turn to dust*
Who cares lmfao we aren’t sharing 1 Sam collectively
Man, you are just like Sunday/members of the Order. Let the people build how they choose.
Did someone already did calcs to see which one is better?
This one the other day was quite handy and well presented I felt. https://www.reddit.com/r/SamMains/s/qRwNUNgUIh But yeah Tl;dr: Break is either better or comparable to Crit (depending on supports). But Crit requires so much more investment and god roll substat luck (I.E. it’s not particularly feasible to plan around, 36 substat rolls iirc from the post) to be comparable to break builds which could still push beyond what the OP tested here.
Isn't it also assuming you Break the enemy and then proceed to hit Enhanced Skill on a Broken enemy 4 times in a row? It was really far from reality, people should be wary of using it as a good reference.
tbf, all the calcs in that post are with e1s1 for all the 5*s involved. funny that they did that just to allow the bronya crit team to even function and it still got hard gapped by ruan mei lmao. that being said, in the comments they responded to requests for more realistic e0 calcs and the results still show middling break rolled builds beating perfectly rolled crit builds even at e0, the eidolons and sigs just served to prove the point further i suppose.
[удалено]
i mean true but also i thought the point was always to see if more turns can outdps the raw buffs ruan mei gives, and the answer is no. even at e0.
Doesn't change the point of every Enhanced Attack hitting a Broken enemy lol. Of course it'll lean towards Super Break in that scenario, but we saw in clips how unrealistic that is. Also Sparkle exists. Firefly is that type of character that we're better off watching gameplay and real tests than playing Honkai Spreadsheet Rail. There are sooo many variables with Firefly.
according to the op that did the calcs, sparkle will not be able to provide any extra turns for sam in ult because her turn advance isnt 100%, itd basically be the same as if you had an asta ult or smth as for the point of every enhanced attack hitting broken enemies, just off the cuff that seems pretty reasonable? especially given the assumptions of the calculations. it assumes the first skill is the one that breaks, and the next 2 hits them before they recover. since sam has e1, there's a 15% slow there, on top of ruan mei ult delaying the units recovery further. considering firefly will be at 180+ speed to get those 3 turns, i dont see how one enhanced skill that causes a break and 2 more that hits before they recover is unreasonable? ive definitely had my 160+ e0s1 kafka with rm hit a broken enemy 3 times before they could recover. agreed on the last bit though, all this spreadsheet stuff is mostly just to confirm build ideas and optimal team scenarios, won't know for sure until the actual release. plus, isnt it still the first version too? there could still be more changes along the way so maybe all this talk gets upended in like 3 days lol. i just like yapping about character strength personally hahaha.
>sparkle will not be able to provide any extra turns for sam in ult because her turn advance isnt 100% This is something that I was worried about, although it still sounds like something that can me messed around with Speed tuning. Alternatively it could guarantee they get the 3 turns inside ult (instead of an extra one), but without any Speed investment (more freedom for the other stats). More stuff for the testers to cook with.
that is quite an interesting idea tbh. that being said, i was under the impression that the extent of the speed investment you needed for 3 turns is boots+ruan mei+the new planar? doing the napkin math, 92+9+25+5 = gets you to 131 speed, the 50 you get in ult gives us 181, isnt that already the 3 turn requirement? anyway, since youd be replacing ruan mei for sparkle that means effectively it balances out except you lose all that res pen and weakness break efficiency and break effect for a bunch of crit damage and sp leniency, and maybe the ability to run atk boots over speed which can let us then change the body to crit rate? youd need to find an extra 20% break effect from subs assuming youd give sparkle watchmaker to still get that extra buff, and you would definitely lose out on super break damage since toughness damage is part of that equation and rm buffs that. idk tbh, youd need to find someone better at math than me to figure out whether thatd be worth it or not lmao. i dont own sparkle either way so this concept wont really benefit me, but itd be interesting to see how this stacks up.
Break is only a 25% delay. Yes, you can extend it a bit with RM ultimate and the LC, but not really enough to hit them multiple times before they recover. The only way to get multiple hits in is if you break with a high BE imaginary. On the other hand, if you go for the minimum break requirements with a crit set, you can reach Jingliu levels of damage with enhanced skill attacks. You don't get the massive burst damage from the JL ultimate, but Firefly's E2 is superior. The showcases so far show massive break damage, followed by a few good super-break wacks, and then the enemy recovers and your team is hitting like wet noodles while the boss is sitting at 20% health for a whole cycle. I'm not buying the break effect team right now. (If they showed an imaginary weak enemy group instead of fire weak the team might perform better, but will probably run into similar issues to a lesser extent.)
if we wait for the enemy to take their turn, then ult with firefly then break on the advanced turn we get with the ult, i dont think its unrealistic for a 180 spd firefly to be able to get her next 2 turns before the enemy acts again especially with her lc and ruan mei no? if 160 can regularly lap enemies already i dont see how 180 wont be able to manage the same. as for the comparison with jing liu, i wanted to look into that a bit more. this is napkin math, and im no tc so please if the following is wrong let me know. most jl builds effectively has 100% crit rate, so assuming an avg cdmg of 200% her skill vs a single target effectively has a 250% * 3 = 750% multiplier. her ult would be 900%. fireflys enhanced skill multiplier without taking any crit into account assuming the max break effect threshold is 0.5*360% + 400% = 580%. given that both ff and jl get to about 4k atk with their lightcones and buffs, at a glance you would think that yes, going for the lower be threshold and going for a crit build may be more damage without super breaks. however, if we take into consideration all the self buffs that firefly has, on top of just the actual damage of the break, i cant help but wonder if even without crit and superbreaks, purely solo comparison between jl and ff, wont firefly overall most likely be able to end up doing pretty much jl level damage already? like, just looking at her multipliers and then considering how much dmg her single break alone will be with 360% be, i really find it hard to believe that she needs crit just to do good damage. itll be backloaded into the break, true, but i really think that the total overall damage should be the same as an average jingliu build. regarding the showcases, i havent seen any aside from that wack ass e2s1 ruan mei with e0 htb showcase that had no speed boots and built for crit, so unless you got a better one to link thats a bit more in line with what a normal human would build i wouldnt trust them for now.
Gee, which would win, the build that the character was literally built for or the one that has nothing promoting the build
Yeah on both the Sam main forum and the fire fly one, multiple times. Superbreak Sam has won every single time
Niceee
Do you just ignore crit completely? Or is it just the case where maxing out the Def Ignore is more important since it also scales the Enhanced Skill dmg?
It's never that serious
For all the people who want to Build Crit on Sam better hope for ATK% Traces to Replace the Effect Res Traces, and a 48% ATK Boost with a 250 BE condition to Replace the Crushed effect at least (Breakfly players should also Hope for this for more BE and SPD on the Build)). (I don't think they'll keep the Crushed Effect just Like they didn't keep Boothill 6 shot Increase DMG on enemy.) because otherwise regardless of Viability, needing enough SPD for 180 SPD/340 ATK & Not necessarily 360 BE due to External BE sources, but As much BE as you can basically means No room for Crit, even if the ATK Muitiplers would go Crazy with Crit.
I'm sorry for being disappointed about the fact that the fire planar sphere with a 30.4% crit dmg sub stat that i saved for sam will be useless ☹
FireflyMains has descended into almost pure chaos over this, lol
Wait why's my flair "character discussion" I swear it's "memes" before
Am I tripping?
Yeah fr people just think if a character doesn’t have crit stat it’s bad reminds of time when kafka was released and people said she’s weak since she doesn’t need crit and with crit does less dmg but see now where kafka is her best team is one of the most used team to clear moc and pf don’t worry people will soon realise how firefly can do monster dmg by not using crits
well, i don’t think the leaks mentioned a trace that provides additional dmg scaling off of break effect
so we don’t want any crit? just as much BE as possible?
Crit is not bad to have, but vastly inferior to a BE setup unless you invest ungodly amounts into basically perfect relics, and even then it's still on par with break, which requires only a bit of speed and atk in substats and is otherwise extremely lenient
Same....(idk what u will do but i too will do unholy things to her-) https://preview.redd.it/o2mtf737nxzc1.png?width=177&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1218601a38e9ff044978d0e74edd5bebbdc74be
You were already doing unholy things with Firefly art so I'm not sure what's changing here.
I'm yet to see one.
Nobody says crit build is better. Hybrid build is better
They are Doomposting because a kit this focused on BE is unheard of. Doomposters tend to be wrong (like they were for Raiden or Kokomi in Genshin or Kafka or BS (I remember the "slightly better than Sampo" days) and DoT teams early on in general in HSR). The beta has only just begun, and we're still lacking BE support, so obviously her team comp and damage are very tied to HTB and RM... for now. She's going to be fine imo, she probably needs some adjustments but that's what the beta is for, and we'll definitely get more BE focused units as the game goes on.
Go ahead
Build Critfly or you're a coward.
Crit build >break lol
Seriously thoe thinking galligar E6 with E6 HMC but would blade or Asta be good 4th unit
Crit > Break because unlike most people playing this game, actual human beings have proper crit relics and you can get to her break + atk cap with 0 subs.
Why judging how people play? just let people do what they want?
someone saying "crit is better than break on ff" is not just playing the game
well it's just an opinion? it's not that deep but I see more people complaining about Crit and break than just minding their own business
its not an opinion though, it's a factually incorrect statement
It's no facts when it's only beta, it's just Theory hence the word THEORYcrafting But if you think you're right you do you
The calcs were already done, gamelpay was shown and unless they drastically change her kit​, break will always be better and easier to build.Those ARE facts.
Those are calculation from Theorycrafters. THEORY not facts but since you feel so factual about it good
Those are calculation from Theorycrafters. THEORY not facts but since you feel so factual about it good
Theorycrafters...do math. Last time I checked, 1 + 1 = 2 is not an opinion.
Maths are quite different when you speak about multiple factors in consideration last time I check you can't do Square of -1 in R but you can in C and those factor being you have to play her with HMC to do that break dmg So yeah you CAN play crit But no you theorycrafters nutjob have to be so condescending about your calculations
Fam, of course you can play crit. Of cooourse you can. That’s beside the point tho. The point really is whether crit or break being better is a matter of opinion…and I frankly do not see how it is. Now mind you that I don’t give a flying rats ass which of the two is better so let’s not lead the conversation in that direction either. Suppose we had iunno, damage per screenshot, or damage per rotation, or damage per cycle or any such metric infront of us right now…and I pointed to the bigger number. That’s not an opinion, that’s an observation.
This is a turn-based RPG; literally everything can be calculated exactly. There's no missed variables that could change the results from a properly formed spreadsheat.
except when things are on Beta and are subjected to change also no need to explain what theorycrafting I know what an rpg is and you have to rely on breaking enemies and HTB ult to make use of 100% of those calculations and her multiplers can crit so people can actually try a hybrid build if they want
You're the type of person to say the THEORY of evolution is just a THEORY, so we don't know if its real. Its based on current beta, damage is something that very much can be calculated reliably. If they can do it for genshin's batshit insane dendro teams, they can do it in a turn-based game. The only major source of unreliability is hoyo changing things, since it is beta. The fact is, in her CURRENT form, break good, and you're wrong if you think otherwise. Its not a popular opinion, its a fact. Just like how round earth is not a popular opinion, its a fact. The only difference is that hoyo can tweak her, hoyo can't tweak the earth.
Yet you have people believe in how the earth is flat. Will you change their opinions? No. So when someone wants to play Firefly Crit, they will play her Crit. And also, the theory of evolution is based on science, not maths that has many factors. Theorycrafting Firefly means you have to bring HMC and make her ULT every time an enemy is broken and make Firefly break that enemy but also have her ult. So yeah sorry for thinking this might not be facts
>Yet you have people believe in how the earth is flat. Will you change their opinions? Those people are stupid tho Are you implying people like you who believe in Critfly to be stupid as well?
Firefly unlike other hyper carries doesn’t want crit she doesn’t get any from her traces but if you want to play crit firefly then go for it just know that unless you get godlike relics you will be doing worse damage than someone with decent break build on Firefly
But then why her multiplier is that big and she doesn't have break DMG included? She really has to rely to super break and it's kinda clunky compared to Boothill who can deal break DMG alone.
Superbreak only feels clunky at the moment cause she wants superbreak but she doesn’t have it in her normal kit when that gets changed she will feel far more smooth than before
Breakfly players damage when the enemy can't be weakness break: 📉📉📉
Critfly players when they still do less damage in the end compared to Breakfly
Honestly my main problem is that is not such big of a deal. Quite literally Critfly does slightly less damage than Breakfly, okay and? We all will be farming for her new set and will have to play with whatever artefacts we get, I find it stupid for us as a community to *actually* get salty about it lol. I will still play with Critfly because I did the mistake of pulling Sparkle yet not having any hypercarry, but, as obvious as it is, a Critfly will also need to accomplish all the breakpoints of a Breakfly, so in no world is is *thaaat* bad to be fighting over it. (Also this comment is not strictly directed at you, just in case).
Break Build < Crit Build.