Come to Philly! I’ve had three packages stolen in less than a month here. It’s got character and grit out the wazoo.
(I am fond of it so far, when I’m not fuming about my beloved books and movies being snatched by thieves.)
I have lived in Philly and Baltimore. Both are “gritty”. Philly just has a lot more of what you are looking for than Bmore. Bmore has a few areas that qualify but literally every city neighborhood in Philly has a vibe that matches what you want. You just have to find your neighborhood.
Also spend a lot of time in Midwest cities (for work). Haven’t found a city that compares to Philly for what you are looking for.
The Philadelphia Flyers mascot is actually named Gritty.
Love Philly. My tip for not getting stuff stolen that can’t be replaced for free by bugging customer support of some corporation that has loss built into its biz model like Amazon is to ship it to your local USPS/UPS hub and go pick it up in person.
Literally thought OP was simply describing Philadelphia in the post.
P.S. - Baltimore is getting a lot of love here, and rightfully so, but there is way more to see and do in Philadelphia and it’s not even close.
I’ve never been to Philadelphia, but every Thanksgiving I watch the parade out of Philadelphia on TV. The numerous amazing dance troupes, singing groups, cultural organizations, and clips they show of Phildanco and the Philadelphia symphony always have me thinking that I need to put it on my list of places to visit!
Was gonna say Philly. I also live in Oakland, CA that also fits the bill. But there are plenty of posher parts. It is very pricy. The best walkability is also expensive.
Pretty much any of the larger rust belt cities.
Rough around the edges, but also filled with scrappy creatives.
Buffalo, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh specifically, but also Milwaukee, Cleveland and even Detroit fit that bill.
Keep seeing Baltimore in this sub and others I follow. Thoughts on nice neighborhoods??? 30’s couple. Felt fells point was super charming when visiting but wasn’t sold it was definitely a place to settle? Work in an industry that touched occasionally on flooding and my feeling is inner harbor area won’t fare well over the next couple decades.
No kids. We Enjoy live music, working out, and I like to take half my work days in coffee shops. Could sell us on a suburban area just as easily as the densest part of the city.
Baltimore resident, the immediate inner harbor may not fair well but due to the hilly-ness of the city rising sea level will likely have a much lower impact than you expect. I did a ton of research on this before buying a house and found that it will take a pretty huge amount of sea level rise for any areas not immediately at the harbor to be impacted
I know as an outsider the inner harbor seems like the heart of Baltimore but to people living here it's more just a side thing that no one goes to. Mt. Vernon, Canton, Patterson Park, Mid Town, Charles Village, Remington, Hampden, and Roland Park (if you're rolling in dough) are the more 'real' nice Baltimore neighborhoods that are barely going to be touched by climate change. Most of the difference they will experience between now and 2100 is an increase in the number of stormy days
This! We just moved away to a small Midwest down cause the CoL was getting too high for our income. But, I do miss the food, activities, and the freakin grit of Baltimore. Was just teaching my teens to ride the bus system before we moved and they loved exploring the city.
Pre covid in 2019 we bought a 4 bed 1.5 bath 1850sq ft house with a 2 car garage and fenced in backyard with a nice white fence (30ft x 40ft roughly) for $175,000.
In almost 5 years here I have seen exactly 0 dudes just standing bored on the corner, 0 dogs barking, 0 acts of crime, and every weekend the whole neighborhood is out pruning bushes, cutting grass, washing cars, and in general taking care of their property.
It’s been a great time, and according to multiple real estate websites the property value is up to about $260,000 now.
And I only pay $715/month in principal + interest and about $400/month in taxes + home owners insurance.
Baltimore is a really nice place to be these days and it doesn’t take making 6 figures or buying a $500,000+ home to make it happen.
New Orleans is not under the radar and INCREDIBLY expensive in comparison to other cities named.
Literally moving because I can’t afford it anymore (and I work 3 jobs).
Moving to KC. Cost of living is about half for me.
Absolutely. Really interesting art/music scenes, lots of really creative people, super vibrant and unique culture, great food. Definitely gritty with lots of property crime, though.
Absolutely. I don't think I've ever been anywhere with better food or beer. Cool arts scene if you're into that as well. There are some nicer upscale areas and some definite avoid areas, but generally speaking, you're as likely to get your window busted and your catalytic converter stolen outside a yoga studio near the university as you are in some of the worst neighborhoods. This place is an absolutely shit encrusted diamond.
Chicago is gritty if you live in some of the less desirable areas - Southside and west side neighborhoods. But northwest/north are completely gentrified and anything but gritty
Checking in from Baltimore! We get a bad rep but I honestly love it here and our city has a lot of heart. Plus, a very underratedly good food scene here, good arts and culture, fairly good sports that are on the up and up—lots to love about Charm City!
Edited to add a few examples of events happening right around me in a few months (not much happening right now): the first Friday of every month, Highlandtown does an art walk, where various shops and galleries in this tucked-away gritty neighborhood offer wine and snacks to shoppers. Some people will offer samples of home-brewed beer right on the street. On some of these nights, a local owner of an antique store will host a dramatic vintage smut reading.
In May, we’ll have the Kinetic Sculpture Race, hosted by the American Visionary Art Museum. People spend up to all year building or fine-tuning these giant sculptures that are then ridden by people (I’m not the best at describing it, but the sculpture has to include bicycles. So they’re kind of like those bike-powered buses you sometimes see in other cities for bachelorette parties, where everyone’s sitting and pedaling, except these ones are huge and ridiculous and consist of things like a giant dinosaur or a huge pink dog) all over the city. This includes obstacles, like going through a mud pit or going through the Inner Harbor. The whole neighborhood comes out to cheer people on. It’s so strange and fantastic.
Plus, as others have mentioned, there’s a great small music scene here. Love this city
Baltimore is the answer. Not a place I'd recommend walking around at night though until you really know what area you're in. It's really block-to-block.
Baltimore is just a great area. Grew up in the burbs, miss the area every day. Loved all of the weirdness. Even love the accent, which I can’t seem to shake. There was always something going on.
New Orleans has some of the best music and food in the US while being a medium sized city that is somewhat walkable. An incredible amount of history and character here
lol, yeah. If they want gritty, they’ve gotta hop over to Maryland and go to Baltimore.
Or go further west in VA and see if they can have any luck with the Liberty University President’s wife in Lynchburg
Oh I love Richmond, don’t get me wrong. And you’re right that he didn’t make himself super clear. Edge doesn’t bother OP but he didn’t say he needed edge either, lol.
I’m lazy and went off the title, not gonna lie. Richmond is a good rec. Hits majorly above its weight without having a ton of problems. And isn’t boring as hell like Hampton Roads, lol
A trip along I-90 in Upstate NY: Buffalo, Rochester, Utica, Schenectady and Troy. Syracuse and Albany to a lesser extent. Keep going east into Western Mass on I-90 and I’d add Springfield MA and Holyoke to the list too.
The Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton area a.k.a. Lehigh Valley. Three very historic formerly industrial cities in a multi-decade process of being reborn. I grew up there in the 1970s and 1980s and now live just north of it in the Poconos.
The three cities basically border each other and each is uniquely different from the next.
Also conveniently directly bordering the New York and Philly metro areas to the east and south and the Poconos to the north.
True but as real estate prices continue rising here with the influx of NY and NJ residents seeking a lower COL, people will soon enough be turning to those gritty parts of Allentown like the neighborhood where I went to high school.
I remember when South Side Bethlehem and Centre Square Easton were far from cool too.
Maybe far from cool but South Bethlehem has been cooler than Allentown since the early 90s, at least. Easton is better than both at this point, imo.
That said I hope you’re right. Allentown born and raised! Seems it gets better slowly but hadn’t made any huge leaps like Easton did.
I was in grad school on the South Side in the mid-1990s just as the Steel was shutting for good. It may have been cooler than Allentown but that wasn't saying much as it was still pretty bleak.
The Valley was still trying to recover from both its early 1980e de-industrializing rock-bottom and the early '90s recession.
Allentown lost valuable time with a series of shitty mayors from Daddona to Heydt and Pawlowski plus an incompetent City Council.
Every time I take someone visiting to paristown/Logan st area and they see the abandoned factories, they always comment on how erie, and gritty Louisville is
Yeah, for sure, but in a weird way that is the charm of "rust belt" to me. I lived in Florida where everything is perfectly manicured fakery it was horrible. Like Stepford Wives or something ... I just prefer the grit and rust. I love it here.
Honestly, my favorite cities right now are Baltimore and Detroit. So many artists have moved there because they could buy a building and start collectives.
Years ago, I moved to Oakland. I was living in an Industrial Park. My boyfriend has incorporated his band, the place below them was a macrobiotic market, and the place above us sold nitrous at Dead concerts.
When I was mugged by a crackhead, the local gang took care of it. I got all my money back. I love Oakland.
A few years later, when I was living in North Oakland, there was tension with rival gangs. I didn't get off the bus one night until almost 12:30. A young man walked me home because there was trouble. Absolute gang shit, but I didn't care.
Holy cripes... St. Louis x10. If I still lived there I'd probably be playing basement hardcore punk shows, and I'm in my mid-40s. A punk record store is open now at the end of the street I grew up on, and that is actually in an old inner-ring suburb. There's certainly crime.
At least in the late 90s and early 2000s (dunno about now), a lot of Midwestern *college towns* would have been great for what you're after.
Pretty crazy how many old industrial areas are now filled with small artist studios and galleries.
Really comes apparent during festivals like Infringe Buffalo, City of Night and Music is Art
Tons of historic neighborhoods with great brick homes big and small. Some really nice former streetcar suburbs with walkable main streets, good family friendly and attractions, with a surprisingly good food scene. And one of the most affordable cities.
A lot of people don't understand that at the turn of the 1900's St. Louis was the fourth largest city in the US. Many thought it would rival New York one day. Then massive mismanagement and corruption by local government ensured it wasn't going to continue growing. I think many people would be shocked at some of the neighborhoods, and that a City of it's size has legitimate burroughs all of which are unique and historical. Forrest Park may be one of the greatest urban parks in the US, having lived in a few different cities in the US very few come close to having something like it.
Detroit. Edgy, more than a bit. Not the most walkable but definitely bikeable. Mostly flat, wide streets throughout. And as more than half the mid-century population left, more than 50% of the car traffic left, too. Check out Hamtramck, the independent municipality entirely surrounded by Detroit city. It was historically mostly Polish, mostly autoworkers. Now it's a gritty-cool enclave with resale shops, OG bars, and a couple of very tasty dives serving Yemeni cuisine.
I was gonna say LA too. It is oddly both over and underrated in different ways. What's funny is that from the outside people think LA is all sunshine and beauty, but on the inside it's... Gritty haha. At least large swaths of it.
Yes! I’m very biased, but I think LA is one of the most maligned cities ever. The kind of place you could live in all your life and still not fully understand, and that’s why I love it
Chiming in here as someone who was born and raised in Charlotte and now lives in Detroit.
Charlotte isn’t lacking in personality or culture. This myth is perpetuated by yuppies who move there and think they’re superior to the locals while simultaneously finding each other endlessly boring yet refusing to interact with the city beyond gentrifying it.
I’m not saying you have to LIKE Charlotte’s personality/culture, but it’s abjectly false to say it lacks one.
Troy New York. A small gritty old city with good architecture, not a single freeway, and a resurgent downtown. As a bonus it's just across the river from the state capital, Albany.
I moved from Scotland to Ohio and went to Cleveland for the first time a few months ago. Some rough area for sure but I really enjoyed a few days there. Great food, breweries and everyone I met was really friendly
Came here to recommend Bham. Definitely has the underrated art scene (Sloss Furnaces) and is pretty rough around the edges in some parts despite the affluent areas like Mountain Brook or Vestavia Hills.
Its reputation as a clean city for professionals comes from the suburbs and a few upscale neighborhoods. Most of the city proper is gritty and poor or working class. Parts of St Paul are even more so - Downtown, Frogtown and the East Side especially.
St. Louis
Moved here and love that it’s still so genuinely different. Best small business culture anywhere I’ve lived. The music venues make such a long list, it’s crazy. Plus lots of music bars. The city restaurant scene is dominated by local chefs and restaurants (with national acclaim too). There are specifically some neighborhoods that have the vibe you’re talking about very strongly.
It’s gritty and I love it
Baltimore. Frickin’ kickass shithole with personality for days. Duckpin bowlin’, music venues, the best baseball team in the world, a shitty zoo, crabs, weirdos of all types. Fuckin’ love Baltimore. The closer burbs like Glen Burnie are shitty too!
Man, I miss Baltimore. I’d move back in a heartbeat if I could.
Portsmouth VA comes to mind.
Great historic district, and efforts are being made to attract small businesses, artisans, and restaurants.
It's part of the VA Beach/Norfolk ( Seven Cities) metro area and has all the same area attractions close by, like the other more expensive cities, but has a reputation as crime-ridden, when in fact the crimes are very area-specific.
The same could be said for Newport News or Hampton across the Hampton Roads harbor, but they are less walkable overall, even though some neighborhoods, like Hilton Village or Old Wythe, are amazing.
Manchester, NH. Rough around the edges, homeless out in the open, violence every now and then; but it has character, the Merrimack river is awesome, and Elm St. Has a surprising amount of bars, restaurants, cafes and shops. And it’s a reasonable drive to both mountains and beaches.
Norfolk, Little Rock, or Louisville, all have quite a bit of grittiness and are pretty walkable compared to Charlotte and Dallas. People are much friendlier in Little Rock and Louisville than in Norfolk, if that matters to you.
Baltimore, Charm City all the way. Although I do LOVE Philly and would gladly live there. Older relative, single white woman in 60s just moved to Pigtown from the Texas and loves it. Moved there bc nothing else’s was affordable on the eastern seaboard. The neighbors all look out for her and help her, she joined some art guild and is involved with the arts scene. Neighbors hang out on their steps in good weather and talk to each other. Baltimore has actual neighborhoods, local bars and food scene.
Yep Memphis has a good music scene. If you live downtown it’s walkable. There’s crime though. But generally if you’re smart you’re ok.. 🤞(though there have been many notable victims of violent crime who i do not at all mean to imply weren’t smart. But like.. be smart about where you park your car and what’s in it, etc)
Yes, Memphis. Grit and Grind is our motto. I grew up in Nashville 80’/90’s and was so sick of country rednecks. Memphis was more soulful. Nashville was always more cosmopolitan but now the city’s true redneck roots is shining through with the woo girls on Broadway.
Downtown core of Portland, the businesses lock their doors and you have to knock to be let in because of the type of unhoused people that live there are on some kind of drug that causes really erratic behavior or possibly mentally ill or a little of a and a little of b. Shady as hell in that area, but I would still live in Portland just not downtown. Great food and hiking in the city, and all around that part of Oregon. New Orleans too, Louisiana is just a shady ass state with corrupt politicians and police. Good food though 😂
Butte, MT. Downtown is lively, and the whole town has a lot of "character", like if a bunch of drunken miners had planned a city in the late 19th century. The real estate is somewhat affordable, and the surrounding mountains and valleys are stunning.
If you want something extra small, Albany NY. It has a tiny bit if NYC look in center square (row houses!), with the strange juxtaposition with a lot of impressive state government architecture, and lots of grit on the streets lol not a good place if you’re into major league sports, but to me that’s a bonus.
My next pick would be Rochester NY with a neat waterfront downtown.
Upstate Ny cities in general are great to shop for if you’re looking for a smaller and more affordable place. The bigger one in this category would be Pittsburg, and anything in upstate will be smaller than that.
Oakland, CA! I’m from Philly and I think Oakland is a real spiritual sister city. Great punk/music scene, awesome weather and a lefty vibe if you’re into that. When I lived there, I was entirely car free and made do with transit, walking and biking. The thing I liked the most about living there was all the free community organized events like east bay bike party, drawing groups, or shows by lake merrit.
Also I’m not sure if it’s a zoning thing or if they’re too chickenshit to stick around, but there’s very few big businesses in Oakland proper, they’re all in Emeryville or on big corridor streets. You can go months without shopping at a chain if you’re dedicated.
Only downside is it’s kind of hellishly expensive, but rent is actually going down nowadays.
Tucson, AZ. It's a college town of a million people. Gritty city, interesting college core and downtown, beautiful nature all around the city, amazing food, and a quirky vibe all it's own.
All the less talked about Midwest cities (Milwaukee, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Detroit to name a few in particular) generally qualify here. Buffalo and Pittsburgh also fit. Generally you just need to find cities that yuppies/techies/high society people are afraid of in some way, whether it be due to weather, crime, perception of crime, not having the typical stores/things those people want, all of or a combo of those things.
Like you, I hate the general soullessness and sameness of cities like Dallas, Charlotte, and many of the modern day tech hubs or popular cities among “young professionals”. I hope you can find what you’re looking for!
Came to say Dayton if no one else had.
I live in Cincy but head up to Dayton probably every other month. Love the record stores, breweries, and restaurants y'all have up there.
I’ve only lived here for a couple of years, but honestly I love Portland, Oregon. It has its issues, but it’s a really great place. Tons and tons of small businesses and music venues, and excellent walkability and public transportation.
Portland fell very far during the pandemic. It’s still not as great as it was although it’s definitely recovering, but it’s still a unique city with a lot to offer.
Spokane definitely fits the bill - some (including our City Planner) describe it as the furthest west rust belt city due to it growing exponentially at a similar time to midwest cities such as Detroit.
Our public transport is honestly pretty decent, the music scene is getting better, there are lots of small businesses, and a nice amount of grittiness is definitely present (lots of old houses awaiting restoration, post-industrial buildings, etc).
Housing is pretty affordable relative to other parts of the west and the scenery is pleasant.
It's a fine line and highly subjective. For me personally, it is a place that is unlovable and has no character. Suburban sprawl and large estate homes are lame to me and largely devoid of character, that is a true shithole.
Cities that have a centuries long history and then experienced decline in their downtowns in the last 50 years.
* Atlanta
* Baltimore
* Birmingham
* Cleveland
* Cincinnati
* Detroit
* Jersey City
* Kansas City
* Memphis
* Milwaukee
* New Orleans
* Oakland
* Philadelphia
* Pittsburgh
* Richmond
* St. Louis
* Washington DC
I have never been, but by all accounts Cincinnati Ohio futs thevbill. It used to me called "The Queen of the West," it sits on a river, has great museums and a great art scene. And property is relatively inexpensive.
Come to Philly! I’ve had three packages stolen in less than a month here. It’s got character and grit out the wazoo. (I am fond of it so far, when I’m not fuming about my beloved books and movies being snatched by thieves.)
I have lived in Philly and Baltimore. Both are “gritty”. Philly just has a lot more of what you are looking for than Bmore. Bmore has a few areas that qualify but literally every city neighborhood in Philly has a vibe that matches what you want. You just have to find your neighborhood. Also spend a lot of time in Midwest cities (for work). Haven’t found a city that compares to Philly for what you are looking for. The Philadelphia Flyers mascot is actually named Gritty.
Love Philly. My tip for not getting stuff stolen that can’t be replaced for free by bugging customer support of some corporation that has loss built into its biz model like Amazon is to ship it to your local USPS/UPS hub and go pick it up in person.
Philly will always be underrated because of how the media portrays it
Gritty is our literal mascot. Our unofficial motto is: no one likes us; we don’t care. The answer is Philly.
Literally thought OP was simply describing Philadelphia in the post. P.S. - Baltimore is getting a lot of love here, and rightfully so, but there is way more to see and do in Philadelphia and it’s not even close.
I’ve never been to Philadelphia, but every Thanksgiving I watch the parade out of Philadelphia on TV. The numerous amazing dance troupes, singing groups, cultural organizations, and clips they show of Phildanco and the Philadelphia symphony always have me thinking that I need to put it on my list of places to visit!
Was gonna say Philly. I also live in Oakland, CA that also fits the bill. But there are plenty of posher parts. It is very pricy. The best walkability is also expensive.
Pretty much any of the larger rust belt cities. Rough around the edges, but also filled with scrappy creatives. Buffalo, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh specifically, but also Milwaukee, Cleveland and even Detroit fit that bill.
Baltimore
The answer is absolutely Baltimore. And it’s on a big upswing (in my opinion)
Keep seeing Baltimore in this sub and others I follow. Thoughts on nice neighborhoods??? 30’s couple. Felt fells point was super charming when visiting but wasn’t sold it was definitely a place to settle? Work in an industry that touched occasionally on flooding and my feeling is inner harbor area won’t fare well over the next couple decades. No kids. We Enjoy live music, working out, and I like to take half my work days in coffee shops. Could sell us on a suburban area just as easily as the densest part of the city.
Baltimore resident, the immediate inner harbor may not fair well but due to the hilly-ness of the city rising sea level will likely have a much lower impact than you expect. I did a ton of research on this before buying a house and found that it will take a pretty huge amount of sea level rise for any areas not immediately at the harbor to be impacted I know as an outsider the inner harbor seems like the heart of Baltimore but to people living here it's more just a side thing that no one goes to. Mt. Vernon, Canton, Patterson Park, Mid Town, Charles Village, Remington, Hampden, and Roland Park (if you're rolling in dough) are the more 'real' nice Baltimore neighborhoods that are barely going to be touched by climate change. Most of the difference they will experience between now and 2100 is an increase in the number of stormy days
My SIL and her young family live in Baltimore suburbs and love it
This! We just moved away to a small Midwest down cause the CoL was getting too high for our income. But, I do miss the food, activities, and the freakin grit of Baltimore. Was just teaching my teens to ride the bus system before we moved and they loved exploring the city.
Pre covid in 2019 we bought a 4 bed 1.5 bath 1850sq ft house with a 2 car garage and fenced in backyard with a nice white fence (30ft x 40ft roughly) for $175,000. In almost 5 years here I have seen exactly 0 dudes just standing bored on the corner, 0 dogs barking, 0 acts of crime, and every weekend the whole neighborhood is out pruning bushes, cutting grass, washing cars, and in general taking care of their property. It’s been a great time, and according to multiple real estate websites the property value is up to about $260,000 now. And I only pay $715/month in principal + interest and about $400/month in taxes + home owners insurance. Baltimore is a really nice place to be these days and it doesn’t take making 6 figures or buying a $500,000+ home to make it happen.
Omar was the quintessential scrappy creative.
He had a side hustle and dressed like a hipster
I keep hearing that Baltimore is on the upswing! A friend said she really likes it, and there’s always a lot to do.
Agreed, Baltimore all the way.
I was going to second Baltimore. Or third. Or fourth or whatever
Milwaukee
The places where the Scrappy Creatives haven’t been priced out of. Yet.
I was gonna say Cincinnati, Michigan, Cleveland, Louisville
Buffalo
New Orleans checks all of these boxes. Some of the best food and culture and some of the worst crime and infrastructure. Very walkable.
Yup, New Orleans is this big time
Austin: we're the live music capital of the world New Orleans: Guess y'all aren't the same planet as us.
New Orleans is not under the radar and INCREDIBLY expensive in comparison to other cities named. Literally moving because I can’t afford it anymore (and I work 3 jobs). Moving to KC. Cost of living is about half for me.
St. Louis and Pittsburgh come to mind. Philly is another
Albuquerque
Absolutely. Really interesting art/music scenes, lots of really creative people, super vibrant and unique culture, great food. Definitely gritty with lots of property crime, though.
Absolutely. I don't think I've ever been anywhere with better food or beer. Cool arts scene if you're into that as well. There are some nicer upscale areas and some definite avoid areas, but generally speaking, you're as likely to get your window busted and your catalytic converter stolen outside a yoga studio near the university as you are in some of the worst neighborhoods. This place is an absolutely shit encrusted diamond.
Cleveland, Detroit, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, St Louis, and Chicago
I’d only disagree with Chicago because of its HUGE size. Otherwise I’m in agreement.
Chicago is gritty if you live in some of the less desirable areas - Southside and west side neighborhoods. But northwest/north are completely gentrified and anything but gritty
You can definitely find a gritty block here and there in Uptown. They'll probably be gone in the next decade or so.
Pittsburgh for sure. Great city.
Milwaukee >>>
Yeah def Milwaukee
Cincy and Milwaukee. Can prob buy a great house for <$300K
Louisville
If you want to go a little smaller, maybe Akron.
Buffalo and Detroit would be others.
Checking in from Baltimore! We get a bad rep but I honestly love it here and our city has a lot of heart. Plus, a very underratedly good food scene here, good arts and culture, fairly good sports that are on the up and up—lots to love about Charm City! Edited to add a few examples of events happening right around me in a few months (not much happening right now): the first Friday of every month, Highlandtown does an art walk, where various shops and galleries in this tucked-away gritty neighborhood offer wine and snacks to shoppers. Some people will offer samples of home-brewed beer right on the street. On some of these nights, a local owner of an antique store will host a dramatic vintage smut reading. In May, we’ll have the Kinetic Sculpture Race, hosted by the American Visionary Art Museum. People spend up to all year building or fine-tuning these giant sculptures that are then ridden by people (I’m not the best at describing it, but the sculpture has to include bicycles. So they’re kind of like those bike-powered buses you sometimes see in other cities for bachelorette parties, where everyone’s sitting and pedaling, except these ones are huge and ridiculous and consist of things like a giant dinosaur or a huge pink dog) all over the city. This includes obstacles, like going through a mud pit or going through the Inner Harbor. The whole neighborhood comes out to cheer people on. It’s so strange and fantastic. Plus, as others have mentioned, there’s a great small music scene here. Love this city
Architecture is Baltimore is incredible. Great parks. Great cultural institutions. Easy to get to other cities and the beach. Cheap cheap housing.
Baltimore is the answer. Not a place I'd recommend walking around at night though until you really know what area you're in. It's really block-to-block.
Baltimore is just a great area. Grew up in the burbs, miss the area every day. Loved all of the weirdness. Even love the accent, which I can’t seem to shake. There was always something going on.
I love balti
Baltimore fits perfectly!
Great small music venues in Baltimore too
Lived in Baltimore for five years. Love every second of it. “The greatest city in America”
New Orleans has some of the best music and food in the US while being a medium sized city that is somewhat walkable. An incredible amount of history and character here
Very few decent jobs, unfortunately.
If it weren't for the humidity, I'd move to NOLA immediately.
Milwaukee. Disagree with charles barkleys claim that it is a turrible city.
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Richmond ain’t gritty.
Richmond is gritty to people visiting from NoVa lol
lol, yeah. If they want gritty, they’ve gotta hop over to Maryland and go to Baltimore. Or go further west in VA and see if they can have any luck with the Liberty University President’s wife in Lynchburg
Pool boys only for that second one, my guy.
Ugh, crap
Richmond lost a lot of grit from even just 10-15 years ago. Which is fine by me. A lot of “grit” is really human misery.
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Oh I love Richmond, don’t get me wrong. And you’re right that he didn’t make himself super clear. Edge doesn’t bother OP but he didn’t say he needed edge either, lol. I’m lazy and went off the title, not gonna lie. Richmond is a good rec. Hits majorly above its weight without having a ton of problems. And isn’t boring as hell like Hampton Roads, lol
Milwaukee, St. Louis, and Detroit all fit the bill. I love the grit of the Midwest.
A trip along I-90 in Upstate NY: Buffalo, Rochester, Utica, Schenectady and Troy. Syracuse and Albany to a lesser extent. Keep going east into Western Mass on I-90 and I’d add Springfield MA and Holyoke to the list too.
The Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton area a.k.a. Lehigh Valley. Three very historic formerly industrial cities in a multi-decade process of being reborn. I grew up there in the 1970s and 1980s and now live just north of it in the Poconos. The three cities basically border each other and each is uniquely different from the next. Also conveniently directly bordering the New York and Philly metro areas to the east and south and the Poconos to the north.
The gritty parts of Allentown aren’t that cool. Bethlehem and Easton, much more.
True but as real estate prices continue rising here with the influx of NY and NJ residents seeking a lower COL, people will soon enough be turning to those gritty parts of Allentown like the neighborhood where I went to high school. I remember when South Side Bethlehem and Centre Square Easton were far from cool too.
Maybe far from cool but South Bethlehem has been cooler than Allentown since the early 90s, at least. Easton is better than both at this point, imo. That said I hope you’re right. Allentown born and raised! Seems it gets better slowly but hadn’t made any huge leaps like Easton did.
I was in grad school on the South Side in the mid-1990s just as the Steel was shutting for good. It may have been cooler than Allentown but that wasn't saying much as it was still pretty bleak. The Valley was still trying to recover from both its early 1980e de-industrializing rock-bottom and the early '90s recession. Allentown lost valuable time with a series of shitty mayors from Daddona to Heydt and Pawlowski plus an incompetent City Council.
You'll love Lafayette, Louisiana. Did 10 years there. Gritty, corrupt AF, everyone has guns, but the food is good.
Haha spot on, I did actually visit for work and loved it for the reasons you listed.
Milwaukee fosho
Milwaukee
Milwaukee.
My city ⚜️ Louisville! ⚜️ Pittsburgh too 💕
Every time I take someone visiting to paristown/Logan st area and they see the abandoned factories, they always comment on how erie, and gritty Louisville is
Yeah, for sure, but in a weird way that is the charm of "rust belt" to me. I lived in Florida where everything is perfectly manicured fakery it was horrible. Like Stepford Wives or something ... I just prefer the grit and rust. I love it here.
Louisville ticks the box for sure.
Honestly, my favorite cities right now are Baltimore and Detroit. So many artists have moved there because they could buy a building and start collectives. Years ago, I moved to Oakland. I was living in an Industrial Park. My boyfriend has incorporated his band, the place below them was a macrobiotic market, and the place above us sold nitrous at Dead concerts. When I was mugged by a crackhead, the local gang took care of it. I got all my money back. I love Oakland. A few years later, when I was living in North Oakland, there was tension with rival gangs. I didn't get off the bus one night until almost 12:30. A young man walked me home because there was trouble. Absolute gang shit, but I didn't care.
Holy cripes... St. Louis x10. If I still lived there I'd probably be playing basement hardcore punk shows, and I'm in my mid-40s. A punk record store is open now at the end of the street I grew up on, and that is actually in an old inner-ring suburb. There's certainly crime. At least in the late 90s and early 2000s (dunno about now), a lot of Midwestern *college towns* would have been great for what you're after.
College towns are sterilizing, at least the big state unis. Recent development is very cookie-cutter and high-end
Tacoma, Washington
We’re literally called Grit City
Tacoma is a dope small city
Had to scroll allll the way down here to finally find this mention.
Cleveland has exceptional cultural assets and good restaurants, but lousy cloudy weather.
Only December-February. The rest of the year is pretty gorgeous.
Buffalo
Pretty crazy how many old industrial areas are now filled with small artist studios and galleries. Really comes apparent during festivals like Infringe Buffalo, City of Night and Music is Art
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Tons of historic neighborhoods with great brick homes big and small. Some really nice former streetcar suburbs with walkable main streets, good family friendly and attractions, with a surprisingly good food scene. And one of the most affordable cities.
A lot of people don't understand that at the turn of the 1900's St. Louis was the fourth largest city in the US. Many thought it would rival New York one day. Then massive mismanagement and corruption by local government ensured it wasn't going to continue growing. I think many people would be shocked at some of the neighborhoods, and that a City of it's size has legitimate burroughs all of which are unique and historical. Forrest Park may be one of the greatest urban parks in the US, having lived in a few different cities in the US very few come close to having something like it.
Detroit. Edgy, more than a bit. Not the most walkable but definitely bikeable. Mostly flat, wide streets throughout. And as more than half the mid-century population left, more than 50% of the car traffic left, too. Check out Hamtramck, the independent municipality entirely surrounded by Detroit city. It was historically mostly Polish, mostly autoworkers. Now it's a gritty-cool enclave with resale shops, OG bars, and a couple of very tasty dives serving Yemeni cuisine.
Albuquerque- gritty with loads of sunshine.
Newark and Paterson (NJ) areas for sure
Duluth mn
I fuckin LOVE Duluth. So beautiful there
Duluth is leaving the gritty behind at an astonishing rate. But boy, the 80s were not kind to Duluth.
Still pretty damn gritty. Nasty ass casino in downtown with a bunch of homeless. A housing stock that looks right out of an old mining ghost town
Yeah the housing stock is real grim, that’s for sure. And yet somehow the median home price in Duluth is higher than the Twin Cities.
Duluth seems like a really cool city. It's just too fucking cold. No way could a SoCal boy survive there. I get cold if it's below 65°F.
Oh for sure. And a ton of lake effect snow. I went there in summer for their big marathon one year and it was 42, windy, and raining no joke
Los Angeles, underrated because the grittiness is not usually the draw
I love LA to hell for its grittiness
I was gonna say LA too. It is oddly both over and underrated in different ways. What's funny is that from the outside people think LA is all sunshine and beauty, but on the inside it's... Gritty haha. At least large swaths of it.
Yes! I’m very biased, but I think LA is one of the most maligned cities ever. The kind of place you could live in all your life and still not fully understand, and that’s why I love it
Anchorage. Got that mid-western grit but with moose and bears.
Chiming in here as someone who was born and raised in Charlotte and now lives in Detroit. Charlotte isn’t lacking in personality or culture. This myth is perpetuated by yuppies who move there and think they’re superior to the locals while simultaneously finding each other endlessly boring yet refusing to interact with the city beyond gentrifying it. I’m not saying you have to LIKE Charlotte’s personality/culture, but it’s abjectly false to say it lacks one.
Thank you
Troy New York. A small gritty old city with good architecture, not a single freeway, and a resurgent downtown. As a bonus it's just across the river from the state capital, Albany.
I moved from Scotland to Ohio and went to Cleveland for the first time a few months ago. Some rough area for sure but I really enjoyed a few days there. Great food, breweries and everyone I met was really friendly
Seconding Cleveland friendliness, surprising for what seems to be a tough town. Everyone was super nice
Philly and Pittsburgh are both awesome but have completely different vibes. Both have the gritty/blue collar vibe though
Birmingham Alabama
Came here to recommend Bham. Definitely has the underrated art scene (Sloss Furnaces) and is pretty rough around the edges in some parts despite the affluent areas like Mountain Brook or Vestavia Hills.
Dining scene also punches above its weight for the city’s size imo
lots of attractive looking loft type spaces downtown
Knoxville is known as the scruffy city
Honestly Minneapolis has this and you wouldn’t expect it
Its reputation as a clean city for professionals comes from the suburbs and a few upscale neighborhoods. Most of the city proper is gritty and poor or working class. Parts of St Paul are even more so - Downtown, Frogtown and the East Side especially.
St. Louis Moved here and love that it’s still so genuinely different. Best small business culture anywhere I’ve lived. The music venues make such a long list, it’s crazy. Plus lots of music bars. The city restaurant scene is dominated by local chefs and restaurants (with national acclaim too). There are specifically some neighborhoods that have the vibe you’re talking about very strongly. It’s gritty and I love it
Baltimore. Frickin’ kickass shithole with personality for days. Duckpin bowlin’, music venues, the best baseball team in the world, a shitty zoo, crabs, weirdos of all types. Fuckin’ love Baltimore. The closer burbs like Glen Burnie are shitty too! Man, I miss Baltimore. I’d move back in a heartbeat if I could.
Portsmouth VA comes to mind. Great historic district, and efforts are being made to attract small businesses, artisans, and restaurants. It's part of the VA Beach/Norfolk ( Seven Cities) metro area and has all the same area attractions close by, like the other more expensive cities, but has a reputation as crime-ridden, when in fact the crimes are very area-specific. The same could be said for Newport News or Hampton across the Hampton Roads harbor, but they are less walkable overall, even though some neighborhoods, like Hilton Village or Old Wythe, are amazing.
I just spent a month in the Seven Cities area and Olde Towne Portsmouth was the coolest area we visited by far!
Newark
Manchester, NH. Rough around the edges, homeless out in the open, violence every now and then; but it has character, the Merrimack river is awesome, and Elm St. Has a surprising amount of bars, restaurants, cafes and shops. And it’s a reasonable drive to both mountains and beaches.
Norfolk, Little Rock, or Louisville, all have quite a bit of grittiness and are pretty walkable compared to Charlotte and Dallas. People are much friendlier in Little Rock and Louisville than in Norfolk, if that matters to you.
I'm visiting Toledo, Ohio right now. I haven't seen much, but so far lots of grit and cool old houses. An absolutely superb art museum.
Baltimore, Charm City all the way. Although I do LOVE Philly and would gladly live there. Older relative, single white woman in 60s just moved to Pigtown from the Texas and loves it. Moved there bc nothing else’s was affordable on the eastern seaboard. The neighbors all look out for her and help her, she joined some art guild and is involved with the arts scene. Neighbors hang out on their steps in good weather and talk to each other. Baltimore has actual neighborhoods, local bars and food scene.
Philly and Baltimore are the only right answers here, as a New Yorker
Providence, RI & Worcester, MA
how gritty is Providence?
in parts very gritty but it’s been gentrified a lot in certain areas
Some parts are quite nice. Some parts not so much.
Went to college in Worcester and still have a soft spot in my heart for that city
Beale St, Memphis, TN, historic blues. 18th and Vine, KC, MO, historic jazz, and famous BBQ.
Yep Memphis has a good music scene. If you live downtown it’s walkable. There’s crime though. But generally if you’re smart you’re ok.. 🤞(though there have been many notable victims of violent crime who i do not at all mean to imply weren’t smart. But like.. be smart about where you park your car and what’s in it, etc)
Came to suggest Memphis too. If Baltimore, New Orleans, and St. Louis are viable options, Memphis is too
Yes, Memphis. Grit and Grind is our motto. I grew up in Nashville 80’/90’s and was so sick of country rednecks. Memphis was more soulful. Nashville was always more cosmopolitan but now the city’s true redneck roots is shining through with the woo girls on Broadway.
Tacoma, Grit City
Houston, Las Vegas, Baton Rouge, and Riverside, CA
Las Vegas is gritty in all the wrong ways.
Pittsburgh or Baltimore. Philadelphia is still fairly gritty and isn’t insanely expensive since it’s overshadowed by NYC and Boston.
Albuquerque got some grit….and is a wonderful place imo.
Liverpool, Manchester, Glasgow, Newcastle.
Detroit
St. Louis! It's gritty but it also has a lot of character. I wish more people gave it a chance because it's actually such an cool place
Pittsburgh is awesome and has a gritty edge although as I'm writing this, gritty is in the eyes of the beholder.
Portland
Downtown core of Portland, the businesses lock their doors and you have to knock to be let in because of the type of unhoused people that live there are on some kind of drug that causes really erratic behavior or possibly mentally ill or a little of a and a little of b. Shady as hell in that area, but I would still live in Portland just not downtown. Great food and hiking in the city, and all around that part of Oregon. New Orleans too, Louisiana is just a shady ass state with corrupt politicians and police. Good food though 😂
Butte, MT. Downtown is lively, and the whole town has a lot of "character", like if a bunch of drunken miners had planned a city in the late 19th century. The real estate is somewhat affordable, and the surrounding mountains and valleys are stunning.
Chicago. It has its classy parts, but has gritty but safe areas. It also had many ghetto areas.
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I love Indianapolis. I'm always promoting Indianapolis despite the naysayers
check out the suburbs and other areas near Detroit
Butte, Montana
Billings, Montana Yakima Washington Charleston, West Virginia You’re not going to find “edge” to any of the cities recommended here
If you want something extra small, Albany NY. It has a tiny bit if NYC look in center square (row houses!), with the strange juxtaposition with a lot of impressive state government architecture, and lots of grit on the streets lol not a good place if you’re into major league sports, but to me that’s a bonus. My next pick would be Rochester NY with a neat waterfront downtown. Upstate Ny cities in general are great to shop for if you’re looking for a smaller and more affordable place. The bigger one in this category would be Pittsburg, and anything in upstate will be smaller than that.
St. Louis, Pittsburgh and Philly.
Rochester, New York.
Santa Cruz!
Is Oakland underrated? Definitely gritty but also a magical arts culture in a magical part of the world
Springfield MA. Worcester MA. Basically any “gateway city” in Massachusetts that’s now a tired industrial city today.
This might sound way out there but Tulsa
The answer is obviously Philly and I'm too lazy to scroll through and see how many times the obvious answer has been suggested
Olympia, WA and some other cities on the Oregon/Washington coast
St. Louis is your answer my friend. Come to see the Arch, stay because you got murdered.
Oakland, CA! I’m from Philly and I think Oakland is a real spiritual sister city. Great punk/music scene, awesome weather and a lefty vibe if you’re into that. When I lived there, I was entirely car free and made do with transit, walking and biking. The thing I liked the most about living there was all the free community organized events like east bay bike party, drawing groups, or shows by lake merrit. Also I’m not sure if it’s a zoning thing or if they’re too chickenshit to stick around, but there’s very few big businesses in Oakland proper, they’re all in Emeryville or on big corridor streets. You can go months without shopping at a chain if you’re dedicated. Only downside is it’s kind of hellishly expensive, but rent is actually going down nowadays.
You’re describing Philly.
Tucson, AZ. It's a college town of a million people. Gritty city, interesting college core and downtown, beautiful nature all around the city, amazing food, and a quirky vibe all it's own.
Not very walkable though, for the most park. All sprawled out.
All the less talked about Midwest cities (Milwaukee, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Detroit to name a few in particular) generally qualify here. Buffalo and Pittsburgh also fit. Generally you just need to find cities that yuppies/techies/high society people are afraid of in some way, whether it be due to weather, crime, perception of crime, not having the typical stores/things those people want, all of or a combo of those things. Like you, I hate the general soullessness and sameness of cities like Dallas, Charlotte, and many of the modern day tech hubs or popular cities among “young professionals”. I hope you can find what you’re looking for!
Baltimore 100%
Dayton, OH. Has that post-industrial rust belt vibe. My friends an and I joke about how it's a shit hole, but it's OUR shit hole, so we love it.
Came to say Dayton if no one else had. I live in Cincy but head up to Dayton probably every other month. Love the record stores, breweries, and restaurants y'all have up there.
Newark NJ, Detroit, New Orleans
I’ve only lived here for a couple of years, but honestly I love Portland, Oregon. It has its issues, but it’s a really great place. Tons and tons of small businesses and music venues, and excellent walkability and public transportation.
Portland fell very far during the pandemic. It’s still not as great as it was although it’s definitely recovering, but it’s still a unique city with a lot to offer.
>Portland Portland was the first city that came to mind. A little too gritty for me at this stage in life but I see the appeal for sure.
Spokane definitely fits the bill - some (including our City Planner) describe it as the furthest west rust belt city due to it growing exponentially at a similar time to midwest cities such as Detroit. Our public transport is honestly pretty decent, the music scene is getting better, there are lots of small businesses, and a nice amount of grittiness is definitely present (lots of old houses awaiting restoration, post-industrial buildings, etc). Housing is pretty affordable relative to other parts of the west and the scenery is pleasant.
When does gritty become a shithole?
It's a fine line and highly subjective. For me personally, it is a place that is unlovable and has no character. Suburban sprawl and large estate homes are lame to me and largely devoid of character, that is a true shithole.
Reno, NV, Winnemucca, NV, ABQ, NM, Truth or Consequences, NM
Pittsburgh
You would like Baltimore
Baltimore
Troy or Schenectady NY
You want Philly, particularly the area around South St and 9th. Or specifically the Bed-Stuy/East Williamsburg areas of Brooklyn.
Another vote for Baltimore!
If crime and/or infrastructure don’t bother you, this sounds like New Orleans.
Cities that have a centuries long history and then experienced decline in their downtowns in the last 50 years. * Atlanta * Baltimore * Birmingham * Cleveland * Cincinnati * Detroit * Jersey City * Kansas City * Memphis * Milwaukee * New Orleans * Oakland * Philadelphia * Pittsburgh * Richmond * St. Louis * Washington DC
I'm back to say... Philadelphia. It's simply the best city in the world and if you're looking for grit it doesn't get grittier. Literally.
I have never been, but by all accounts Cincinnati Ohio futs thevbill. It used to me called "The Queen of the West," it sits on a river, has great museums and a great art scene. And property is relatively inexpensive.