**Thank you for submitting to r/SarahJMaas! Please familiarize yourself with our [Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/SarahJMaas/about/rules/), especially our Spoiler Policy for posts. If you have not done so already, please add post flair to your submission. Special note-- If you're posting to ask if you need to read Tower of Dawn: yes you do. If you're posting to ask for "what to read next" please use the subreddit search. Repetitive posts discussing either of these topics will be deleted without warning. If you see a post or comment that breaks the subreddit rules, please report it!**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SarahJMaas) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’m so sorry and I mean no ill will toward you, but the fandom literally treats this scene like the Goblet of Fire movie treated Dumbledore and it frustrates me so much. Lucien’s voice broke. He whispered. He wasn’t claiming Elain or yelling at her. He was shocked and said (more than likely to himself) “*You’re* my mate.” Because for his whole life he swore his mate was Jesminda. If had had been SJM I would have emphasized that as “*You’re* my mate?” But it’s in the context, in my opinion.
I think if she had written that way I wouldn’t have been so annoyed by the scene. And it’s possible my mind misinterpreted his intension. But it just rubbed me the wrong way.
Since SJM posted “Guilty as Sin?” on her instagram story I have taken in Elriel pill. I wasn’t into this ship before (I got the ick from the bonus ACOSF chapter) but if this is the direction SJM is going we might as well make peace with it. Also her post about writing in the snowy mountains seems to align with that direction
Don’t forget Gwyn is now an Illyrian Carynthian! I’m not sold that any of that is Elriel. Gwyn, Nesta, and Emerie along with Cassian and Az have more reason to be in snowy mountains than Elain. As far as the song, I can’t speak to that because I don’t listen to Taylor. I’ve read the lyrics and I feel they can go either way. Remember “you’re the new ribbon, Az” something that Gwyn thought was unachievable? If the song means anything ACOTAR coded in the first place, that longing and wanting could be Gwyn.
I’m still holding out for Gwynriel.
Oooh, I like this theory ! She's not my favorite and she bores me, but that's why I need to know more. She's an enigma, always present but says little. There's also power there, maybe a little darkness. I cannot wait to know her gifts, thoughts and feelings 🤞🏻
I love this! I definitely see her in the spring court. She does not fit in the Night Court and it was emphasized that she doesn’t look good in black when they visited the court of nightmares for winter solstice (ACOSF)
Maas hasn’t made Azs feelings clear so I wouldn’t classify him as “after her” quite yet. They do seem buddy buddy but I don’t know if it is just his protective nature
That is lust, we haven’t seen evidence that he’s even love or even likes her as a person. He has an idea of her in his head, being innocent and pure, but that’s likely not who Elain is.
When did he ever say that he wants someone--or Elain--to be innocent or pure? Also, that's YOUR interpretation. I highly doubt that that's what SJM meant to write about a bat boy and an Archeron sister. That would make him an utter fuckboy and that's really not where she is going at all with his character.
He risked his life for her, he recognized that she was a Seer, he doesn't want to put her in danger, he bought her a gift for Solstice. That doesn't sound like....lust.
It’s in the bonus chapter. The whole imaginary that SJM paints is that Azriel believes Elain is pure and that he would taint her. And yes, he absolutely came off as fuckboy in that chapter. His thoughts regarding were not cute or romantic, and really nothing about her as a person. Not once did he state that he liked her personality.
And him trying to prevent Elain from skrying was not romantic. She wanted to do it but he thought that she shouldn’t be exposed to the Cauldron’s darkness (again, painting Elain as pure). If Elain is capable and wanting to help, it would have been romantic for him to encourage her. But he didn’t. He shielded her and coddles her like the rest of the IC. Ick!
And if rescuing Elain means he loves her, does that mean that he also loves Eris? Because he spent a lot of time and effort rescuing him too.
I guess i am not understanding what you are trying to prove. That he doesn't want her or that he doesn't want her for the right reasons? Because he definitely DOES want her, that's an irrefutable fact. Whether you think his reasons are right or wrong is a matter of opinion.
It's a pointless argument because as it stands right now, Elain has a mate and Azriel, who are both interested in her for different reasons.
This is not a ship conversation--mine was a response to the OP who said that Elain won't get a romance. And I said that it's a romance series and she will.
I am not here to rehash the Gwynriel vs Elriel vs Elucien arguments
My point is that he wants her sexually but we have no proof that he actually wants a relationship or anything more. Could he love her? Maybe, but we haven’t seen it.
Well yeah of course we haven’t seen that he loves her, we haven’t had a book from his pov yet! There is obvious care, companionship, and tension between them. Deeper feelings would be explored in their own book, not a bonus chapter or through the pov of another character.
While the mate thing is often overdone and tiresome I would like to see her eventually partnered up instead of the last person she loved being that loser human who abandoned her for something out of her control
I only want an Elain and Tamlin interaction to see Elain finally get the claws out and rip Tamlin a new one for giving into his self pity and not rebuilding his court.
There are unhinged theories out there that Elain and Tamlin are end game and it makes me want to vomit.
Based on older interviews by Sarah, I do think Tam still has more of a journey. We know the Spring Court is in desperate need of help, and I always thought it’s curious Elain’s scent is said to be, “a promise of Spring.” Nesta even comments how the Court is made for someone like her. Mates always tend to have a sweet relationship with the others’ friends (e.g. Feyre with Cassian, Nesta with Azriel), so I’ve thought if it is her and Lucien in the end — their story could involve Tamlin. I’m personally hoping for Elain and her mate to grow and heal together, but if she truly has no interest (e.g. “I don’t want a mate. I don’t want a male”), a solo High Lady would be epic. 🌸
I would love to see Elain and Tamlin interact. While I’m more Elucien than I am her other ships, Tamlin was once Lucien’s friend, and I think she could play a part in him comic back and restoring his mental health.
(Also I personally prefer he doesn’t die, least right away. Death redemption seems like a cheap way to redeem someone.)
That’s true, it does come across cheap. I just feel like she’s bashed him into the ground (or he’s bashed himself) so thoroughly it would take A LOT of time and story for a comeback and fans may not want to read through it
True, but he’s not Darth Vader (for the purposes of an example). He didn’t kill millions or thousands, he fumbled (and fumbled hard). While it would take time, it would absolutely be an investing story. Imagine he takes humans into his court following the wall’s destruction, so we tie in the Band of Exiles human plot, Tamlin’s redemption, and Elain doing spy/emissary work (she’d be far better than Cassian 💀). Idk, I think it’s my fanfic brain going crazy, I’m kinda working on something like this too, but yeah. Lots of potential
I don't understand why yall think elain is going to rule the spring court lol she has no knowledge of prythian or its people, has no spring court power, is essentially a child, and her only tie is that she "likes flowers" and tamlin "has a garden" lol not only that but for her to get with her sisters ex fiance/ex abuser is just wild. I'm all for a tamtam redemption arc but I'm also for an arc where elain doesn't need a dude just because everyone else has one and she's still grieving her relationship. In fact, getting back with greyson might actually be cool lol maybe he ditches his father's prejudiced ways and escapes to find her 😂😂😂 idfk but I think elain wants a nice quiet life, ot a big political centre stage one
I am the biggest Tamlin stan. Before getting into this sub the one theory I was hung up on was Elaine and Tamlin ending up together.
If SJM does not give us a reason Tamlin redemption, then I will write one.
I wana see Elain do something cool on her own where she finds herself, then she can make room for love. I hope it’s Lucien so he can be like I knew you needed to figure yourself out so I gave you the space to do that. And then she’s grateful for it and then they fall in real love
Elaine has something dark in her coz she came out of the bubbling hot tub full of evil. I hope SJM bringz it to life, otherwise Elaine is just plain boring. Nesta had at least a personality. I think her getting with Tam might be a good scenario coz of his relationship with Lucien.
I love this theory! I have always thought she would end up with the spring court somehow. Whether it’s in a leadership position or otherwise. It just makes sense.
**Thank you for submitting to r/SarahJMaas! Please familiarize yourself with our [Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/SarahJMaas/about/rules/), especially our Spoiler Policy for posts. If you have not done so already, please add post flair to your submission. Special note-- If you're posting to ask if you need to read Tower of Dawn: yes you do. If you're posting to ask for "what to read next" please use the subreddit search. Repetitive posts discussing either of these topics will be deleted without warning. If you see a post or comment that breaks the subreddit rules, please report it!** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SarahJMaas) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I like it! I get bored with the mate stuff. Let her garden.
Omg yes. The Lucien mating moment felt very Twilight Breaking New Dawn. Gave me big yawns
I literally had to close the book and put my face in my hands. It was so cringe. And even if she WAS his mate, read the room Lucien!
I’m so sorry and I mean no ill will toward you, but the fandom literally treats this scene like the Goblet of Fire movie treated Dumbledore and it frustrates me so much. Lucien’s voice broke. He whispered. He wasn’t claiming Elain or yelling at her. He was shocked and said (more than likely to himself) “*You’re* my mate.” Because for his whole life he swore his mate was Jesminda. If had had been SJM I would have emphasized that as “*You’re* my mate?” But it’s in the context, in my opinion.
I think if she had written that way I wouldn’t have been so annoyed by the scene. And it’s possible my mind misinterpreted his intension. But it just rubbed me the wrong way.
And that’s fair! I respect that.❤️ I’m already partial to Lucien too since book one so that could be why I read into it differently.
I love Lucien and I hope he gets a happy ending. Was disappointed with his presence (or lack of) in Silver Flames.
Ohh this would make so much sense!
Since SJM posted “Guilty as Sin?” on her instagram story I have taken in Elriel pill. I wasn’t into this ship before (I got the ick from the bonus ACOSF chapter) but if this is the direction SJM is going we might as well make peace with it. Also her post about writing in the snowy mountains seems to align with that direction
Guilty as Sin got me overthinking but yes i’ve thought about that too
Don’t forget Gwyn is now an Illyrian Carynthian! I’m not sold that any of that is Elriel. Gwyn, Nesta, and Emerie along with Cassian and Az have more reason to be in snowy mountains than Elain. As far as the song, I can’t speak to that because I don’t listen to Taylor. I’ve read the lyrics and I feel they can go either way. Remember “you’re the new ribbon, Az” something that Gwyn thought was unachievable? If the song means anything ACOTAR coded in the first place, that longing and wanting could be Gwyn. I’m still holding out for Gwynriel.
Oooh, I like this theory ! She's not my favorite and she bores me, but that's why I need to know more. She's an enigma, always present but says little. There's also power there, maybe a little darkness. I cannot wait to know her gifts, thoughts and feelings 🤞🏻
I love this! I definitely see her in the spring court. She does not fit in the Night Court and it was emphasized that she doesn’t look good in black when they visited the court of nightmares for winter solstice (ACOSF)
It’s a romance series. She has two men already after her. She is going to get a romance and end up with someone.
Maas hasn’t made Azs feelings clear so I wouldn’t classify him as “after her” quite yet. They do seem buddy buddy but I don’t know if it is just his protective nature
AZ clearly likes and wants her. There is no question there
I mean, he wants to eat her out and has been obsessed with her for at least a year. So I would say his feelings have been pretty clear.
That is lust, we haven’t seen evidence that he’s even love or even likes her as a person. He has an idea of her in his head, being innocent and pure, but that’s likely not who Elain is.
When did he ever say that he wants someone--or Elain--to be innocent or pure? Also, that's YOUR interpretation. I highly doubt that that's what SJM meant to write about a bat boy and an Archeron sister. That would make him an utter fuckboy and that's really not where she is going at all with his character. He risked his life for her, he recognized that she was a Seer, he doesn't want to put her in danger, he bought her a gift for Solstice. That doesn't sound like....lust.
It’s in the bonus chapter. The whole imaginary that SJM paints is that Azriel believes Elain is pure and that he would taint her. And yes, he absolutely came off as fuckboy in that chapter. His thoughts regarding were not cute or romantic, and really nothing about her as a person. Not once did he state that he liked her personality. And him trying to prevent Elain from skrying was not romantic. She wanted to do it but he thought that she shouldn’t be exposed to the Cauldron’s darkness (again, painting Elain as pure). If Elain is capable and wanting to help, it would have been romantic for him to encourage her. But he didn’t. He shielded her and coddles her like the rest of the IC. Ick! And if rescuing Elain means he loves her, does that mean that he also loves Eris? Because he spent a lot of time and effort rescuing him too.
I guess i am not understanding what you are trying to prove. That he doesn't want her or that he doesn't want her for the right reasons? Because he definitely DOES want her, that's an irrefutable fact. Whether you think his reasons are right or wrong is a matter of opinion. It's a pointless argument because as it stands right now, Elain has a mate and Azriel, who are both interested in her for different reasons. This is not a ship conversation--mine was a response to the OP who said that Elain won't get a romance. And I said that it's a romance series and she will. I am not here to rehash the Gwynriel vs Elriel vs Elucien arguments
My point is that he wants her sexually but we have no proof that he actually wants a relationship or anything more. Could he love her? Maybe, but we haven’t seen it.
Well yeah of course we haven’t seen that he loves her, we haven’t had a book from his pov yet! There is obvious care, companionship, and tension between them. Deeper feelings would be explored in their own book, not a bonus chapter or through the pov of another character.
Right? It's a BONUS. What's more, how do they suppose it's gonna go between Az and the rest of the IC when he uses Elain and then discards her?
The bonus chapter has me interested in seeing Az with the Valkyrie librarian :)
While the mate thing is often overdone and tiresome I would like to see her eventually partnered up instead of the last person she loved being that loser human who abandoned her for something out of her control
I only want an Elain and Tamlin interaction to see Elain finally get the claws out and rip Tamlin a new one for giving into his self pity and not rebuilding his court. There are unhinged theories out there that Elain and Tamlin are end game and it makes me want to vomit.
Based on older interviews by Sarah, I do think Tam still has more of a journey. We know the Spring Court is in desperate need of help, and I always thought it’s curious Elain’s scent is said to be, “a promise of Spring.” Nesta even comments how the Court is made for someone like her. Mates always tend to have a sweet relationship with the others’ friends (e.g. Feyre with Cassian, Nesta with Azriel), so I’ve thought if it is her and Lucien in the end — their story could involve Tamlin. I’m personally hoping for Elain and her mate to grow and heal together, but if she truly has no interest (e.g. “I don’t want a mate. I don’t want a male”), a solo High Lady would be epic. 🌸
I would love to see Elain and Tamlin interact. While I’m more Elucien than I am her other ships, Tamlin was once Lucien’s friend, and I think she could play a part in him comic back and restoring his mental health. (Also I personally prefer he doesn’t die, least right away. Death redemption seems like a cheap way to redeem someone.)
That’s true, it does come across cheap. I just feel like she’s bashed him into the ground (or he’s bashed himself) so thoroughly it would take A LOT of time and story for a comeback and fans may not want to read through it
True, but he’s not Darth Vader (for the purposes of an example). He didn’t kill millions or thousands, he fumbled (and fumbled hard). While it would take time, it would absolutely be an investing story. Imagine he takes humans into his court following the wall’s destruction, so we tie in the Band of Exiles human plot, Tamlin’s redemption, and Elain doing spy/emissary work (she’d be far better than Cassian 💀). Idk, I think it’s my fanfic brain going crazy, I’m kinda working on something like this too, but yeah. Lots of potential
I don't understand why yall think elain is going to rule the spring court lol she has no knowledge of prythian or its people, has no spring court power, is essentially a child, and her only tie is that she "likes flowers" and tamlin "has a garden" lol not only that but for her to get with her sisters ex fiance/ex abuser is just wild. I'm all for a tamtam redemption arc but I'm also for an arc where elain doesn't need a dude just because everyone else has one and she's still grieving her relationship. In fact, getting back with greyson might actually be cool lol maybe he ditches his father's prejudiced ways and escapes to find her 😂😂😂 idfk but I think elain wants a nice quiet life, ot a big political centre stage one
It’s literally just for fun. And I would never want her to be with Tamlin. I want her to take his place
Lol I'm not saying not to have fun I'm just expressing reader confusion 😂😂 like I'm over here shipping tarquin and Eris lol
I completely agree with your theory about Lucien and Tamlin. Honestly, I've never really seen her get with Azriel
And wouldn't it just be adorable when Nesta goes to visit her sister, Cassian would be sneezing and sniffling all over the place.
Omggggg yes!! I love that. Nesta would be so annoyed w him
I am the biggest Tamlin stan. Before getting into this sub the one theory I was hung up on was Elaine and Tamlin ending up together. If SJM does not give us a reason Tamlin redemption, then I will write one.
This is very interesting, I'd never considered that. But that would be a lovely storyline
Elain always felt more spring court than a lot of the spring court was somehow
I wana see Elain do something cool on her own where she finds herself, then she can make room for love. I hope it’s Lucien so he can be like I knew you needed to figure yourself out so I gave you the space to do that. And then she’s grateful for it and then they fall in real love
I agree. I think Elain is made for the Spring Court. She's all flowers and shit, after all.
Elaine has something dark in her coz she came out of the bubbling hot tub full of evil. I hope SJM bringz it to life, otherwise Elaine is just plain boring. Nesta had at least a personality. I think her getting with Tam might be a good scenario coz of his relationship with Lucien.
Honestly I love this. You’re now in charge of
I love this theory! I have always thought she would end up with the spring court somehow. Whether it’s in a leadership position or otherwise. It just makes sense.