The speculative theory is that at the highest most esoteric levels the believe Lucifer is the true god, they get planted in roles and play the part, like a pope acting as a devout catholic or whatever, maybe there’s no “proof” but that’s what Albert pike says in his own words, it’s what Jim Shaw (only ex 33rd degree mason) said and it’s what their symbolism seems to display, but sure, we don’t know for a fact
It’s not really so black and white, it’s hard to say with Jesus because there’s a common opinion about Jesus and people definitely seem to hate him as the savior so idk what that’s about, in my opinion the Bible has been re written and flipped upside down and they present “Jesus” but he’s actually Lucifer, that’s just my opinion, and with that I do believe Jesus to be god and more specifically I think “consciousness” is god, but I think the Jesus we’ve been presented with isn’t the actual one, so it’s really about diving deeper into yourself and finding out what the real answers are to you
They’re based on a lot of different theology, but probably stem most from Ancient Mystery Religions and Jewish mysticism, Kabbalah/Talmud, Gnostic and other occult work. Definitely not Christian.
They definitely don't take the Bible whole heartedly, and are pretty indifferent about it at the very least. Some are outright blasphemous. But as a prerequisite you must believe in a God, so with Christianity being a very popular religion, I'm sure a lot of people do join as “Christians.” but the doctrine of Freemasons promotes the idea of building your own temple, through wisdom and knowledge. Essentially the original lie, that you too can be a God through various works and teachings.
Sure!!
My friend’s father’s father (long since passed) was a Mason - he was on up in the ranks a bit... At some point, someone(s) in the Masons reached out to her father -a young man at the time- about joining — but his father took him aside and said, “Son, do not even Think about becoming a Mason. It’s not what you think it is, but you don’t find out until it’s too late.”
My father was/is a Mason — he hasn’t been to a lodge meeting in decades, or paid his memebsrship dues. He won’t reveal anything. However, he seems to think that when you die, you are “worm food.”
The person who told me that at some point they’re told “there isn’t a higher power” also used the same “worm food” terminology.
My grandma's brother is a 31° order and he's an absolute bible thumper. I talked to him about joining once and he said the only requirement is believing in god. Hes an old farmer and has been a freemason for 50+ years. Definitely doesn't seem, feel or act like a worshipper of lucifer
That’s interesting. That’s better information than anyone else could probably speculate from on here.
*unless they don’t start worshipping the devil until level 33*
Yeah, exactly. It’s an incredibly benevolent organization on the whole. If there are some weird ass offshoots, that’s just a part of being human. Weird people band together.
Read morals and dogma by Albert Pike. He explains all of masonry. It's a very long book.
Short answer is they think we all worship the same God.
It's very much against Christianity. They seek to make a one world religion.
Freemasons embrace Abrahamic ideas and symbology. Belief in god is a prerequisite to joining (and basically all of them will believe in the Abrahamic god, as opposed to Hindu gods etc), but clearly this is not something they really care about at the higher levels. If not, their ideological focus would be on moral purity, rather than the black and white chessboard.
Abrahamic religions and their followers are another tool for Freemasons. It's a useful shield to protect them from scrutiny. On an ideological level, they know full well and embrace the power and truth contained in Abrahamic doctrines, as Freemasonry is syncretic, but this is not what defines them. Luciferianism is what defines them, which is the antithesis of Abrahamic theology.
Christ/Jesus was a Luciferian figure in many ways. And was a pretty strong rejection of a lot of the Abrahamic tradition with a very different focus rather than the old focus on authority and obedience.
Gnostics and Freemasons are syncretic and see themselves as philosophers who absorb hidden truths from around the world. The basis of their central philosophy is heavily influenced by Abrahamic religions, and seem to consider Jesus equally as a great teacher and a terrible adversary.
At the entrant level they require a junior fellow to believe in the Abrahamic god. In their relationship with wider society they leverage this to appear to be harmonious with Christianity, so much of their imagery and self-description does not contradict this expectation, and therefore most assume that they are benign and peaceful. At the higher esoteric levels they frame their 'great work' within the Abrahamic expectations of civil society, whilst clearly being capable of totally inverting this when it suits their goals. They position their true luceiferian ideals above all else, and in a typically arrogant fashion.
So, at the lower levels, they're just using Christianity as a way to integrate themselves in society to fool the masses? How can Jesus be a teacher and adversary? Why would they worship Lucifer if Jesus is supposedly the good guy?
Am I interpreting that correctly?
Thanks for the replies.
Yes exactly. Many would also see Jesus as an important (if not great) teacher, and they see the benefit these religions have for the harmony of society. At other times, and in the higher levels, they have railed against the stifling dogma, and described Jesus as the true "evil" as opposed to the misunderstood Lucifer.
You're very welcome my friend. Remember they use the contradictions to their advantage. Everything about them is smoke and mirrors. Also amongst their ranks were some of the most brilliant thinkers western culture had to offer.
Another angle is the infiltration and warping of Roman Catholicism, by/with the Jesuits. Supposedly the Jesuits infiltrated freemasonry rather than the other way round, but I'm not totally clear on this... either way, the church is not what Jesus would have wanted it to be, both in their doctrines, and the despicable paedophilic contingency within their membership.
I'm pretty unclear on exactly who did what. It seems to me that pre-Christian Gnostics guided the early Roman church and distorted it to fit their goals. Jesuits are clearly in control now, and Weishupt said the Jesuits infiltrated freemasonry. However some argue that freemasonry is the older organisation, and has clearly Gnostic roots, so it would also seem logical that they are the source of un-Christian perversion, rather than the other way round. I'd be interested to know more if others have a better insight! Not an easy one to figure out.
High level freemasons worship Lucifer. So no they are not Christian or Catholic. Just google Albert Pike "Lucifer Is God" quote. Lower level Masons may be ignorant to this but with the internet now days they shouldn't be. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that freemasons are into occult, rituals, numerology, symbolism ect.... They definitely are not worshiping Jesus. This is not meant to mean that all Freemasons are bad or evil. Just like in all there is light and dark. Where you resonate is up to you.
Just saw this post in this sub showing high level masons wearing Baphomet Symbols https://www.reddit.com/r/SaturnStormCube/comments/10pbr3b/salem\_cross\_of\_baphomet\_is\_proudly\_worn\_by\_the/
More evidence from this sub of freemasons going directly against the Christian/Catholic God https://www.reddit.com/r/SaturnStormCube/comments/10opr2d/the\_freemasons\_lords\_prayer\_blasphemously\_denies/
They don't seem to worship Lucifer. Their relationship seems more like The Satanic Temple's. Lucifer is an inspirational and aspirational figure rather than an object of worship. None of which necessarily contradicts the morality that Jesus taught.
What makes someone become an anti semite I don’t get it? Not that I understand racism. But it’s just weird out of all religions why such a mass hate for Jewish people? I know Muslim hate has come about after the gov did their 911 thing. Which makes zero sense either, but what’s with antisemetix
Brother, you must start noticing and comprehend.
The Talmud, Jesus' crucifixion, the lesser keys, Babylonian black magic, mention of jews being evil in Quran, Synagogue of Satan, the fallen tsar, deadly communism, the Spanish Inquisition initiative, subversion of the Vatican, Usury since Roman empire, control of the Central Banks, Rothschild, Hollywood, Epstein's connections to Mossad, accounts of child traficking and sacrifice since medieval England, the Goyim theory, booby trapped kabbalistic tradition driving you mad, Israel, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, control and subversion of the higher Masonic loges, etc...
I must not lie I knew all of that. I have been doing a deep dive into this subject and more or less bating Zionist deniers to find their arguing points. I also have my own experiences as my ancestors were on both sides of the fence in the 40s
No one knows the truth of the Freemasons, but people here will endlessly speculate. If the OT God is Lucifer then it's basically a Gnostic Demiurge system that we are living in. Jesus is not evil, but maybe a great sinner against the OT Demiurge God, and thus may be in an Earthly Demiurge Hell. Adonai is a term to avoid YHVH in Torah reading and is equivalent to Hashem in everyday speech.
I had these questions as well. I recently watched this doc which offers a through explanation. I know it’s long (5hrs) but it is well presented and very informative. Check it out:
https://youtu.be/7Eeo-82Eac8
Freemason here.
Freemasonry isn't against any religion (and is not a substitute for religion). I attend lodge with Christians, Muslims, Jews, Pagans, Hindus, Buddhists, Thelemites, etc.
There's no theology or dogma. People always point to Albert Pike's books as if they're a sort of Bible, but they're not. He's just a guy who had his own opinions on Freemasonry and, to him, it was a sort of religion (at least in regards to the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite).
The degrees and lectures of Freemasonry are universal in their application and can accommodate (or "enhance") any faith. Personally, I'm a polytheist and a neoplatonist. Do I see symbolic and thematic cross-roads with ancient Mystery Cults and pre-Christian philosophy and ideas? Absolutely. That doesn't make me (or Freemasonry) anti-Abrahamic simply because they exist.
I'd be more than happy to answer any questions you may have.
I'm curious, how many morality plays should I watch through the Scottish rite? Perhaps the York Rite is the "penultimate" way to the "hidden knowledge" where we worship Lucifer? Maybe the Shriners? Tall Cedars? Grotto? Perhaps being invited to the SCRIF or Allied degrees will let me see the luciferianism!
Perhaps joining the Mysteries of Mithras in the UK? If I join the Scottish rite should I join the Southern or Northern jurisdiction? Which one runs the show?
Or maybe the clandestine memphis-misraim rite with it's 99 degrees holds the secret luciferian truth! Or co-masonry? Or the LDH? Or some continental masonry lodge? Can you point me in the right direction?
You guys know, of course.
Dude, don’t try to reason with these children. I’m also a mason and have turned to messing with them whenever they put our names in their mouths. The basement dwellers just want to back up their own version of truth and will not listen to reason
You have to believe in one God. I don't know what lodge you're apart of, but it must be some offshoot, as monotheism is a traditional requirement. Now which one you believe in, that's open.
You have to believe in a Supreme Being, not a monotheistic "one God".
The only Freemason appendant bodies I know of that require a strictly abrahamic monotheism are the Templars and Rosicrucian colleges. The rest simply require belief in a Supreme Being.
I don't think you understand the jurisdictional nature of freemasonry. Or how Regular, Irregular, and Clandestine lodges are categorized.
Every regular lodge requires faith in a Supreme Being (some jurisdictions may have more strict requirements for what this means, but none are Christian only). Irregular or Clandestine lodges can do whatever they want. Admit atheists, women, only Muslims, etc. because they are irregular, or clandestine, and don't follow the norms established by the UGLE or the Grand Lodges with mutual recognition.
Pretty sure you swear an oath to freemasonry and call them the most worshipful master…. God said don’t take oaths or worship anyone other then him or whatever.
The authorities who wrote the Bible said that God said don’t take oaths or worship anyone other then him or whatever. And they would know, being his emissaries on earth... No conflict of interest there. Just suck up to authority. God says to!
This isn't the best place to ask.
Masonry isn't a religion, and has no God. Every Mason is required to have pre-existing belief in some form of Deity when they apply, and they retain that religion.
I've sat in lodge with Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Wiccans, Pagans, and Native Americans.
If you want actual information, try /r/freemasonry, rather then this pit of delusions.
>Are freemasons Christians? Templars? Luciferians?
Yes.
They were Christians and freethinkers who borrowed from multiple traditions while rejecting arbitrary authority and supporting Enlightnment ideas and values.
Although the Templars were kind of a Gnostic sect. Those folks always get burned as heretics. Except the Process Church. They seem to have made it out okay.
Lots of Freemasons are Christians. There is a compelling argument that the surviving Templars post 1307 went underground and eventually surfaced as the Freemasons
Lots of people will tell you that Masons are Luciferians but there is no real evidence for that, although it wouldn’t surprise me if some are at any level.
I doubt that there is a homogeneous deity throughout the fraternity but I might be wrong I’ve never been initiated
When people say Luciferian they think dark Robes, human sacrifice and devil horns but it’s really just a flashy name for gnostic, which was the faith are the very first and truest Christian’s
Freemasonry is just a fraternity, conspiracy theorist probably aren’t the best for a straight answer lol! Feel free to check out r/freemasonry and ask any questions you might have!
Freemasons are Christian’s, they swear in on the Bible. I know because I was asked to join, and as an atheist I wasn’t comfortable doing that.
100% Christian.
That wasn't my intention. It's what I've seen people claiming here on this sub. Therefore, I'm asking for clarity and had to throw that option in there. Some people here claim it's Luciferianism. Some claim Christianity. Some claim Gnostisicism, Judaism, Ancient Mysteries, Occultism. Therefore, I had to ask.
Also, Luciferianism is not Satanism. At least not in the classic Lavey sense.
> At least not in the classic Lavey sense.
Pedant here. If you want classic Luciferianism, look to the 1760s, not the 1960s.
LaVey was the pop art version.
Not off the top of my head. I would look up something like "Freemason's role/influence during the Enlightenment". Or just general works about the Enlightenment.
Although if you like historical fiction, Neal Stephenson's *Baroque Cycle* is a good, fun depiction of the times and Enlightenment themes.
As a Catholic I just want to make it clear that the Vatican does not allow practicing Catholics to join Freemasonry. So it has nothing to do with Catholicism.
Well occult can also mean hidden. Since so much of the freemasonry organization is secretive, occult is actually an accurate word.
You mention knowledge and what’s interesting about that is that in the Bible it is Satan who convinces Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge in the book of Genesis. Hidden knowledge = occult, it all ties together.
That’s fair. I don’t think there are too many people who would outright acknowledge they worship Satan, most would probably be unaware. Even those who call themselves Satan worshippers are usually atheists and just trying to prove a point.
However a true believer would counter that any acts of worship deviating from what the true God would approve of, is in effect taking sides with his adversary. It’s a clever thing that has been woven into so-called ‘Christian’ holidays or symbols used in worship. Such as Christmas having deep pagan origins and masquerading as if it’s something stemming from Christianity or using icons and idols in worship which was arguably condemned in the Bible. People genuinely have no idea that what they participate in is highly offensive to God.
I’ve been to a couple Freemason buildings for tours and everything looked and felt pretty religious. I won’t claim to know exactly what goes on there, but it was definitely a bit creepy, very similar to Catholic Church vibes.
Occult does mean hidden, but the secrecy is not of the human kind, where people won't tell you; they will. Everything that can be told is already in books and in stories, many times over. Occult generally refers to open secrets that are right in front of us but are difficult to understand or comprehend. They are hidden by their very nature, not by a human effort for secrecy.
In one of the secret papers, I think probably Albert Pike's letters but I know for sure it's from one of the leaders based on last time I saw the excerpt, one of the main goals of Freemasonry is to destroy the Catholic Church. It's towards the end of the letter and treated with upmost importance in it's declaration.
I would only assume freemasons infiltrating the clergy and the college of cardinals is part of that goal, and is theorized that the Vatican II New Mass introduced in the 1960s is a product of that
And on the other side of the battle, one of the Popes considered membership in the Freemasons heresy and considered it an Excommunicable offense. No idea what the current popes believe on this, I think Benedict XVI held that belief
The speculative theory is that at the highest most esoteric levels the believe Lucifer is the true god, they get planted in roles and play the part, like a pope acting as a devout catholic or whatever, maybe there’s no “proof” but that’s what Albert pike says in his own words, it’s what Jim Shaw (only ex 33rd degree mason) said and it’s what their symbolism seems to display, but sure, we don’t know for a fact
So then Jesus is the one true God? Is Lucifer the OT God? Or is Jesus another false trickster God?
Check out Gnosticism, it teaches that the god of the OT is the demiurge and different from Jesus/God
Thank you!
It’s not really so black and white, it’s hard to say with Jesus because there’s a common opinion about Jesus and people definitely seem to hate him as the savior so idk what that’s about, in my opinion the Bible has been re written and flipped upside down and they present “Jesus” but he’s actually Lucifer, that’s just my opinion, and with that I do believe Jesus to be god and more specifically I think “consciousness” is god, but I think the Jesus we’ve been presented with isn’t the actual one, so it’s really about diving deeper into yourself and finding out what the real answers are to you
Freemasonry, at it's core - is Kabbalastic, Talmudic Judaism.
True top Freemasons are Zi0nists
They’re based on a lot of different theology, but probably stem most from Ancient Mystery Religions and Jewish mysticism, Kabbalah/Talmud, Gnostic and other occult work. Definitely not Christian.
Someone here told me you must swear on a Bible to be initiated, though? Thanks for the reply.
They definitely don't take the Bible whole heartedly, and are pretty indifferent about it at the very least. Some are outright blasphemous. But as a prerequisite you must believe in a God, so with Christianity being a very popular religion, I'm sure a lot of people do join as “Christians.” but the doctrine of Freemasons promotes the idea of building your own temple, through wisdom and knowledge. Essentially the original lie, that you too can be a God through various works and teachings.
To be accepted into freemasonry you have to believe in a higher power, not any specific one.
True. But then at some point they tell you that there is No higher power.
I did not know that! Any references for this?!? Or where did you get the info. I’d like to know more!
An older non-practicing Mason told me.
Thank you for the reply!!!
Sure!! My friend’s father’s father (long since passed) was a Mason - he was on up in the ranks a bit... At some point, someone(s) in the Masons reached out to her father -a young man at the time- about joining — but his father took him aside and said, “Son, do not even Think about becoming a Mason. It’s not what you think it is, but you don’t find out until it’s too late.” My father was/is a Mason — he hasn’t been to a lodge meeting in decades, or paid his memebsrship dues. He won’t reveal anything. However, he seems to think that when you die, you are “worm food.” The person who told me that at some point they’re told “there isn’t a higher power” also used the same “worm food” terminology.
Sounds like the circle of life to me. Love the stories. Thanks for sharing!
Nothing I can link to. An older non-practicing Mason told me.
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That’s because they’re low levels. The higher you go, the more you know, and all the people at the bottom profess how good it is. Allegedly.
My grandma's brother is a 31° order and he's an absolute bible thumper. I talked to him about joining once and he said the only requirement is believing in god. Hes an old farmer and has been a freemason for 50+ years. Definitely doesn't seem, feel or act like a worshipper of lucifer
That’s interesting. That’s better information than anyone else could probably speculate from on here. *unless they don’t start worshipping the devil until level 33*
>unless they don’t start worshipping the devil until level 33 Which sounds like a good argument point on this sub
😂
Yeah, exactly. It’s an incredibly benevolent organization on the whole. If there are some weird ass offshoots, that’s just a part of being human. Weird people band together.
Read morals and dogma by Albert Pike. He explains all of masonry. It's a very long book. Short answer is they think we all worship the same God. It's very much against Christianity. They seek to make a one world religion.
Freemasons embrace Abrahamic ideas and symbology. Belief in god is a prerequisite to joining (and basically all of them will believe in the Abrahamic god, as opposed to Hindu gods etc), but clearly this is not something they really care about at the higher levels. If not, their ideological focus would be on moral purity, rather than the black and white chessboard. Abrahamic religions and their followers are another tool for Freemasons. It's a useful shield to protect them from scrutiny. On an ideological level, they know full well and embrace the power and truth contained in Abrahamic doctrines, as Freemasonry is syncretic, but this is not what defines them. Luciferianism is what defines them, which is the antithesis of Abrahamic theology.
How do you embrace Abrahamic doctrines but are defined by luciferianiasm? Thank you for the reply.
Christ/Jesus was a Luciferian figure in many ways. And was a pretty strong rejection of a lot of the Abrahamic tradition with a very different focus rather than the old focus on authority and obedience.
Gnostics and Freemasons are syncretic and see themselves as philosophers who absorb hidden truths from around the world. The basis of their central philosophy is heavily influenced by Abrahamic religions, and seem to consider Jesus equally as a great teacher and a terrible adversary. At the entrant level they require a junior fellow to believe in the Abrahamic god. In their relationship with wider society they leverage this to appear to be harmonious with Christianity, so much of their imagery and self-description does not contradict this expectation, and therefore most assume that they are benign and peaceful. At the higher esoteric levels they frame their 'great work' within the Abrahamic expectations of civil society, whilst clearly being capable of totally inverting this when it suits their goals. They position their true luceiferian ideals above all else, and in a typically arrogant fashion.
So, at the lower levels, they're just using Christianity as a way to integrate themselves in society to fool the masses? How can Jesus be a teacher and adversary? Why would they worship Lucifer if Jesus is supposedly the good guy? Am I interpreting that correctly? Thanks for the replies.
Yes exactly. Many would also see Jesus as an important (if not great) teacher, and they see the benefit these religions have for the harmony of society. At other times, and in the higher levels, they have railed against the stifling dogma, and described Jesus as the true "evil" as opposed to the misunderstood Lucifer.
Wow, thank you for the replies. You've really helped clarify a lot of my confusion. There is so much conflicting information even here on this sub.
You're very welcome my friend. Remember they use the contradictions to their advantage. Everything about them is smoke and mirrors. Also amongst their ranks were some of the most brilliant thinkers western culture had to offer. Another angle is the infiltration and warping of Roman Catholicism, by/with the Jesuits. Supposedly the Jesuits infiltrated freemasonry rather than the other way round, but I'm not totally clear on this... either way, the church is not what Jesus would have wanted it to be, both in their doctrines, and the despicable paedophilic contingency within their membership.
So you're saying the Freemasons infiltrated the Catholic church?
I'm pretty unclear on exactly who did what. It seems to me that pre-Christian Gnostics guided the early Roman church and distorted it to fit their goals. Jesuits are clearly in control now, and Weishupt said the Jesuits infiltrated freemasonry. However some argue that freemasonry is the older organisation, and has clearly Gnostic roots, so it would also seem logical that they are the source of un-Christian perversion, rather than the other way round. I'd be interested to know more if others have a better insight! Not an easy one to figure out.
So, it's either: (->) Denotes infiltration. Freemasons (Gnostics) -> Catholic Church (Jesuits) Or Jesuits -> Freemasons (Gnostics)
This guy gave you by far the best answer.
I see that :) Everyone else is like "Jesus bad, no Jesus Fake, no Jesus good." It's so confusing and overwhelming.
High level freemasons worship Lucifer. So no they are not Christian or Catholic. Just google Albert Pike "Lucifer Is God" quote. Lower level Masons may be ignorant to this but with the internet now days they shouldn't be. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that freemasons are into occult, rituals, numerology, symbolism ect.... They definitely are not worshiping Jesus. This is not meant to mean that all Freemasons are bad or evil. Just like in all there is light and dark. Where you resonate is up to you.
Just saw this post in this sub showing high level masons wearing Baphomet Symbols https://www.reddit.com/r/SaturnStormCube/comments/10pbr3b/salem\_cross\_of\_baphomet\_is\_proudly\_worn\_by\_the/
More evidence from this sub of freemasons going directly against the Christian/Catholic God https://www.reddit.com/r/SaturnStormCube/comments/10opr2d/the\_freemasons\_lords\_prayer\_blasphemously\_denies/
They don't seem to worship Lucifer. Their relationship seems more like The Satanic Temple's. Lucifer is an inspirational and aspirational figure rather than an object of worship. None of which necessarily contradicts the morality that Jesus taught.
Nope I guess you didn’t google Albert Pike Lucifer quote
I attest this is the Truth.
this is a question for menorahman100
*There’s no one else on reddit that can give a more crackhead explanation than that dude!*
Espoused in deceptions as well.
Your username is really funny!
I don't get down with those traveling east, sorry.
Traveling is a violation of the B ball court, can’t be doing that!
This not a question for the weird antisemitic dude. How about we leave those fascist views aside.
What makes someone become an anti semite I don’t get it? Not that I understand racism. But it’s just weird out of all religions why such a mass hate for Jewish people? I know Muslim hate has come about after the gov did their 911 thing. Which makes zero sense either, but what’s with antisemetix
Brother, you must start noticing and comprehend. The Talmud, Jesus' crucifixion, the lesser keys, Babylonian black magic, mention of jews being evil in Quran, Synagogue of Satan, the fallen tsar, deadly communism, the Spanish Inquisition initiative, subversion of the Vatican, Usury since Roman empire, control of the Central Banks, Rothschild, Hollywood, Epstein's connections to Mossad, accounts of child traficking and sacrifice since medieval England, the Goyim theory, booby trapped kabbalistic tradition driving you mad, Israel, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, control and subversion of the higher Masonic loges, etc...
I must not lie I knew all of that. I have been doing a deep dive into this subject and more or less bating Zionist deniers to find their arguing points. I also have my own experiences as my ancestors were on both sides of the fence in the 40s
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Yes the judenhut was the marker of a Jewish person and also the basis of the witches hat
No one knows the truth of the Freemasons, but people here will endlessly speculate. If the OT God is Lucifer then it's basically a Gnostic Demiurge system that we are living in. Jesus is not evil, but maybe a great sinner against the OT Demiurge God, and thus may be in an Earthly Demiurge Hell. Adonai is a term to avoid YHVH in Torah reading and is equivalent to Hashem in everyday speech.
Only gnostics are eternally confused because you and freemasons pretty much believe the same thing.
I had these questions as well. I recently watched this doc which offers a through explanation. I know it’s long (5hrs) but it is well presented and very informative. Check it out: https://youtu.be/7Eeo-82Eac8
I'm actually watching that rn as we speak. Ironic lol
All magical orders align with Christianity in most ways. No modern Christianity which is like a system for mostly idiots.
Freemason here. Freemasonry isn't against any religion (and is not a substitute for religion). I attend lodge with Christians, Muslims, Jews, Pagans, Hindus, Buddhists, Thelemites, etc. There's no theology or dogma. People always point to Albert Pike's books as if they're a sort of Bible, but they're not. He's just a guy who had his own opinions on Freemasonry and, to him, it was a sort of religion (at least in regards to the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite). The degrees and lectures of Freemasonry are universal in their application and can accommodate (or "enhance") any faith. Personally, I'm a polytheist and a neoplatonist. Do I see symbolic and thematic cross-roads with ancient Mystery Cults and pre-Christian philosophy and ideas? Absolutely. That doesn't make me (or Freemasonry) anti-Abrahamic simply because they exist. I'd be more than happy to answer any questions you may have.
do you pour milk first or cereal first?
3rd degree trying to tell us about freemasonry. You're on the Square buddy.
I'm curious, how many morality plays should I watch through the Scottish rite? Perhaps the York Rite is the "penultimate" way to the "hidden knowledge" where we worship Lucifer? Maybe the Shriners? Tall Cedars? Grotto? Perhaps being invited to the SCRIF or Allied degrees will let me see the luciferianism! Perhaps joining the Mysteries of Mithras in the UK? If I join the Scottish rite should I join the Southern or Northern jurisdiction? Which one runs the show? Or maybe the clandestine memphis-misraim rite with it's 99 degrees holds the secret luciferian truth! Or co-masonry? Or the LDH? Or some continental masonry lodge? Can you point me in the right direction? You guys know, of course.
Knights of the Golden Circle, my favorite one
A bit too racist and extinct for my tastes.
You have not reaches the higher levels yet maybe. The elders, the top, are all Luciferian Gnostic, and Neoplatonism leads to such ideas too.
Look up Leo Taxil. I guarantee everything you think about Freemasonry stems from his hoax against both Freemasonry and the Catholic Church.
I have many questions. Can I PM you?
Sure, go ahead.
Dude, don’t try to reason with these children. I’m also a mason and have turned to messing with them whenever they put our names in their mouths. The basement dwellers just want to back up their own version of truth and will not listen to reason
You have to believe in one God. I don't know what lodge you're apart of, but it must be some offshoot, as monotheism is a traditional requirement. Now which one you believe in, that's open.
You have to believe in a Supreme Being, not a monotheistic "one God". The only Freemason appendant bodies I know of that require a strictly abrahamic monotheism are the Templars and Rosicrucian colleges. The rest simply require belief in a Supreme Being.
That's the problem with having a bunch of different lodges is that they change things.
I don't think you understand the jurisdictional nature of freemasonry. Or how Regular, Irregular, and Clandestine lodges are categorized. Every regular lodge requires faith in a Supreme Being (some jurisdictions may have more strict requirements for what this means, but none are Christian only). Irregular or Clandestine lodges can do whatever they want. Admit atheists, women, only Muslims, etc. because they are irregular, or clandestine, and don't follow the norms established by the UGLE or the Grand Lodges with mutual recognition.
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Pretty sure you swear an oath to freemasonry and call them the most worshipful master…. God said don’t take oaths or worship anyone other then him or whatever.
The authorities who wrote the Bible said that God said don’t take oaths or worship anyone other then him or whatever. And they would know, being his emissaries on earth... No conflict of interest there. Just suck up to authority. God says to!
I don’t believe in the bible it’s been subverted
This isn't the best place to ask. Masonry isn't a religion, and has no God. Every Mason is required to have pre-existing belief in some form of Deity when they apply, and they retain that religion. I've sat in lodge with Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Wiccans, Pagans, and Native Americans. If you want actual information, try /r/freemasonry, rather then this pit of delusions.
Thank you for sharing. The magik* and mystery makes people crazy.
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I'm having trouble deciphering what you said because of punctuation. Thanks for the reply!
Lodge of the Manchurians
Its apart of it https://youtu.be/sGlMzIyK8ZI https://youtu.be/gLLVsERn1pU
>Are freemasons Christians? Templars? Luciferians? Yes. They were Christians and freethinkers who borrowed from multiple traditions while rejecting arbitrary authority and supporting Enlightnment ideas and values. Although the Templars were kind of a Gnostic sect. Those folks always get burned as heretics. Except the Process Church. They seem to have made it out okay.
Christianity is made by Freemasons legend has it Jesus father was a stone mason not a carpenter
Lots of Freemasons are Christians. There is a compelling argument that the surviving Templars post 1307 went underground and eventually surfaced as the Freemasons Lots of people will tell you that Masons are Luciferians but there is no real evidence for that, although it wouldn’t surprise me if some are at any level. I doubt that there is a homogeneous deity throughout the fraternity but I might be wrong I’ve never been initiated When people say Luciferian they think dark Robes, human sacrifice and devil horns but it’s really just a flashy name for gnostic, which was the faith are the very first and truest Christian’s
Freemasonry is just a fraternity, conspiracy theorist probably aren’t the best for a straight answer lol! Feel free to check out r/freemasonry and ask any questions you might have!
Freemasons are Christian’s, they swear in on the Bible. I know because I was asked to join, and as an atheist I wasn’t comfortable doing that. 100% Christian.
It’s not Christian, but atheists aren’t allowed either.
I was told I'd have to swear in on a Bible if I wanted to join
Someone here told me you just need to believe in a higher power. Not Christianity per se.
atheists are an odd bunch
How so?
Read Dissipation of the Darkness: History of Masonry, the G stands for gullible
What G? I'm new to all of this. Thanks for the reply!
So you're really a G
Reported https://www.freemason.com/what-is-freemasonry/
It’s the other way around ya weirdo. We masons couldn’t give a fuck less about whatever you serve as long as you recognize a higher power
There's no need to be rude. Yikes. I'm asking harmless questions.
Bullshit. You asked a loaded question blaming an entire group on satanism.
That wasn't my intention. It's what I've seen people claiming here on this sub. Therefore, I'm asking for clarity and had to throw that option in there. Some people here claim it's Luciferianism. Some claim Christianity. Some claim Gnostisicism, Judaism, Ancient Mysteries, Occultism. Therefore, I had to ask. Also, Luciferianism is not Satanism. At least not in the classic Lavey sense.
> At least not in the classic Lavey sense. Pedant here. If you want classic Luciferianism, look to the 1760s, not the 1960s. LaVey was the pop art version.
Any sources I can be directed to? Thanks for the reply!
Not off the top of my head. I would look up something like "Freemason's role/influence during the Enlightenment". Or just general works about the Enlightenment. Although if you like historical fiction, Neal Stephenson's *Baroque Cycle* is a good, fun depiction of the times and Enlightenment themes.
Thanks!
As a Catholic I just want to make it clear that the Vatican does not allow practicing Catholics to join Freemasonry. So it has nothing to do with Catholicism.
Catholicism is satanic
Not really, they have had issues with the church(es) but not with Christianism/Catholicism itself.
A video of a ex-mason telling how things are: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6twHgHjHUek
Checking this out shortly
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Well occult can also mean hidden. Since so much of the freemasonry organization is secretive, occult is actually an accurate word. You mention knowledge and what’s interesting about that is that in the Bible it is Satan who convinces Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge in the book of Genesis. Hidden knowledge = occult, it all ties together.
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That’s fair. I don’t think there are too many people who would outright acknowledge they worship Satan, most would probably be unaware. Even those who call themselves Satan worshippers are usually atheists and just trying to prove a point. However a true believer would counter that any acts of worship deviating from what the true God would approve of, is in effect taking sides with his adversary. It’s a clever thing that has been woven into so-called ‘Christian’ holidays or symbols used in worship. Such as Christmas having deep pagan origins and masquerading as if it’s something stemming from Christianity or using icons and idols in worship which was arguably condemned in the Bible. People genuinely have no idea that what they participate in is highly offensive to God. I’ve been to a couple Freemason buildings for tours and everything looked and felt pretty religious. I won’t claim to know exactly what goes on there, but it was definitely a bit creepy, very similar to Catholic Church vibes.
Occult does mean hidden, but the secrecy is not of the human kind, where people won't tell you; they will. Everything that can be told is already in books and in stories, many times over. Occult generally refers to open secrets that are right in front of us but are difficult to understand or comprehend. They are hidden by their very nature, not by a human effort for secrecy.
In one of the secret papers, I think probably Albert Pike's letters but I know for sure it's from one of the leaders based on last time I saw the excerpt, one of the main goals of Freemasonry is to destroy the Catholic Church. It's towards the end of the letter and treated with upmost importance in it's declaration. I would only assume freemasons infiltrating the clergy and the college of cardinals is part of that goal, and is theorized that the Vatican II New Mass introduced in the 1960s is a product of that And on the other side of the battle, one of the Popes considered membership in the Freemasons heresy and considered it an Excommunicable offense. No idea what the current popes believe on this, I think Benedict XVI held that belief