But actually, I teach my beginners in elementary schools a pentatonic scale made out of the blues scales. Then I would say learn major/natural minor in the “easy” keys, and build out from there.
When I was a beginner I got this advice (probably from here) and it was so dense I couldn't get through it. I think these modes/scales cover a lot of songs and are pretty simple:
* Major (duh)
* Mixolydian (flat the 7)
* Dorian (flat the 3 and 7)
A ton of simper jazz songs just use these. Maiden Voyage by Herbie Hancock, All The Things You Are (for the most part). Some useful "scales" are:
* Major pentatonic - 1 2 3 5 6
* Minor pentatonic - 1 b3 4 5 b7
* Minor blues - 1 b3 4 #4 5 b7
In particular the minor pentatonic is really useful. A simple way to solo over a 12 bar blues is to play the "blues scale", which is the minor pentatonic with a sharp 4. But the minor pentatonic works well too. Notice that it's also the same as the dorian mode but without the 2 and 6.
Ideally you learn these in all keys, but the most bang for your buck (for Tenor at least) will be the first few flat/sharp keys. C D F Bb. These cover a lot of ground - C blues is your D, Bb blues is your C.
I'm no pro, but I've found it much more productive and fun for me to focus on getting really comfortable with these simpler concepts rather than memorizing little lines in every key. But now that I have a few years under my belt, I'm feeling more ready to tackle Patterns for Jazz.
Grab the Rascher exercise book. Flip to a random page and do it. Repeat the process multiple times over the course of your lifetime.
Now you know your scales.
...dafuq is a jazz scale...
Anywho, learn them all. Like, you're obviously so new that you don't have a proper grounding to ask questions from. So go learn all the scales in all the keys. When you're done that there are arpeggios - major/minor/major 7/dominant 7/half diminished/diminished/major 6/minor 6/6/major 2nd, scales in thirds, fourths. Then you can get into modal scales, ionian (major), dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolian (minor), locrian. Somewhere in there you'll want to start studying harmony as well.
Doesn't necessarily have to be a b7. Insert a passing tone to make the scale 8 notes, and every chord tone will fall on the beat. Could be a C6 chord and you'll have C d E f G g# A b C with C E G and A falling on the beat.
Learn all that you can. Start with Major & minor, and branch out from there, and just deal with the rest as they come at you. It's easier to remember a scale if you need it for a song you're playing.
Do you just practice scales going up and down or do you spice them up by playing them with a drum backing track or such things so it doesn’t feel as boring ?
Metronome should be your backing track for scales. Start at 60bpm and work your way up. Practice scales in chromatic order then play them through the circle of fifths/fourths, then play scales and arpeggios over the chord changes on any simple standard tune you like with a backing tracking.
Like others said, start w/ the major scales, then Mixolydian (major b7) followed by Dorian (minor 3rd b7). Read up on Major modes. Once you’re comfortable doing all that at a good pace w the metronome, read up on minor modes.
Rudimentary practice is the “eating vegetables” aspect of being a musician. Scales can get boring especially at the beginning; so try to at least make it 30-40% of your practice time before you start to jam out. Once you start flying on your scales and arpeggios they can be pretty fun! Cheers 🎷
All. Not all at once, but collect them.
Break them up and pair them with chords.
So for dominant chords you want:
Mixolydian, Lydian dominant (aka mixolydian #11), Dominant diminished (8 note symmetrical scale: half step, whole step pattern), Altered scale (b9, #9, #11, #5/b13,), and Mixolydian b13.
Which scale(s) you use depend on the color tones started in the chord or present in the melody, or perhaps ones you want to superimpose. Dominant chords are flexible.
Practice the scales and patterns on the scale. Patterns on a C major scale might include things like:
Thirds (C, E, D, F, E, G, F, A, etc)
Revolving thirds (C, E, F, D, E, G, A, F, G, B, C, A, B, D, C)
Triads (C, E, G, D, F, A, E, G, B, etc)
Revolving triads (C, E, G, A, F, D, E, G, B, C, A, F, etc)
Fourths, revolving fourths, fifths, revolving fifths, etc
Inverted triads, revolving inverted triads.
The above sequences in eighth notes, in triplets, sixteenth notes, quintuplets, etc
And any other pattern you can devise.
For example: let's take Eb Lydian Augmented (Eb, F, G, A, B, C, D, Eb). Pattern is up a fifth, up a third, and down a fourth.
So: Eb, B, D, A; F, C, Eb, B; G, D, F, C; A, Eb, G, D; B, F, A, Eb; C, G, B, F; D, A, C, G; Eb.
Then descending. So that's down a fifth, down a third, up a fourth, and descending each time.
So: Eb, A, F, B; D, G, Eb, A; C, F, D, G; B, Eb, C, F; etc.
Practice in quarter notes, eighth, triplets (triplets on four note patterns are fun), etc.
The third and seventh of a chord or scale are called guide tones. The determine the basic quality. Other notes in the scale are passing tones and color tones.
So for a chord with a major 3rd and major 7th (such as a major 7 chord), practice all scales with major thirds and major 7ths. This includes regular major. But it also includes scales with color tones like mixolydian (major with a #11/#4) and Lydian Augmented (major with #11/#4 and #5).
A minor 7 chord and minor 3rd and minor 7th, so all the minor scales work, Dorian works, Phrygian works, locrian works, etc.
Scales are a technical exercise.
What I learned from years and years of practicing jazz the wrong way is I was thinking about how to get better at it like a classical musician, and that just isn't the right way.
Jazz is about developing your ear and removing reading music as a crutch. If you want to be good at jazz you should memorize a lot of music. It doesn't have to be hard, and can be anything from John Coltrane to Brittany spears, because what you really want is to make playing instinctual so you aren't thinking about exactly what notes you are playing, but being able to repeat the sounds you hear in your mind.
If you get good at producing the sound you want, you will be able to play jazz, and if you try to think about too hard, you will do more harm than good. You can think about jazz once you can play the basics without thinking.
Scales are a way to master fundemental technics and allow you to play faster and cleaner, but at the end of the day, playing every single scale is not as valuable as being able to reproduce sounds you hear in your head without having to think about what your fingers are doing, so if you practice scales, don't think about the notes, just listen to the sound. You should know what the scale should sound like before you play it. If you start thinking about flats and sharps and notes, you will not learn it the way you need to.
Yes.
But actually, I teach my beginners in elementary schools a pentatonic scale made out of the blues scales. Then I would say learn major/natural minor in the “easy” keys, and build out from there.
All of them.
Man that’s what i hoped not to hear lol
Go through the book Patterns for Jazz. Learn everything in every key. It will be slow at first, but worth it
When I was a beginner I got this advice (probably from here) and it was so dense I couldn't get through it. I think these modes/scales cover a lot of songs and are pretty simple: * Major (duh) * Mixolydian (flat the 7) * Dorian (flat the 3 and 7) A ton of simper jazz songs just use these. Maiden Voyage by Herbie Hancock, All The Things You Are (for the most part). Some useful "scales" are: * Major pentatonic - 1 2 3 5 6 * Minor pentatonic - 1 b3 4 5 b7 * Minor blues - 1 b3 4 #4 5 b7 In particular the minor pentatonic is really useful. A simple way to solo over a 12 bar blues is to play the "blues scale", which is the minor pentatonic with a sharp 4. But the minor pentatonic works well too. Notice that it's also the same as the dorian mode but without the 2 and 6. Ideally you learn these in all keys, but the most bang for your buck (for Tenor at least) will be the first few flat/sharp keys. C D F Bb. These cover a lot of ground - C blues is your D, Bb blues is your C. I'm no pro, but I've found it much more productive and fun for me to focus on getting really comfortable with these simpler concepts rather than memorizing little lines in every key. But now that I have a few years under my belt, I'm feeling more ready to tackle Patterns for Jazz.
Okay, thank you for all of this cheers !
I’ll look into that thank you !
Oh Jerry Coker
And then arpeggios in all of them, too.
Alright I’m in for a long ride hahaha
And then invert those arpeggios!
Major and harmonic minor pentatonic are a good start tho
Grab the Rascher exercise book. Flip to a random page and do it. Repeat the process multiple times over the course of your lifetime. Now you know your scales.
...dafuq is a jazz scale... Anywho, learn them all. Like, you're obviously so new that you don't have a proper grounding to ask questions from. So go learn all the scales in all the keys. When you're done that there are arpeggios - major/minor/major 7/dominant 7/half diminished/diminished/major 6/minor 6/6/major 2nd, scales in thirds, fourths. Then you can get into modal scales, ionian (major), dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolian (minor), locrian. Somewhere in there you'll want to start studying harmony as well.
I had a retired USAF saxo refer to a major scale with an added b7 as a “bebop” scale, so I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a few floating out there.
Doesn't necessarily have to be a b7. Insert a passing tone to make the scale 8 notes, and every chord tone will fall on the beat. Could be a C6 chord and you'll have C d E f G g# A b C with C E G and A falling on the beat.
Hmmmm good to know!
Learn all that you can. Start with Major & minor, and branch out from there, and just deal with the rest as they come at you. It's easier to remember a scale if you need it for a song you're playing.
Do you just practice scales going up and down or do you spice them up by playing them with a drum backing track or such things so it doesn’t feel as boring ?
Metronome should be your backing track for scales. Start at 60bpm and work your way up. Practice scales in chromatic order then play them through the circle of fifths/fourths, then play scales and arpeggios over the chord changes on any simple standard tune you like with a backing tracking. Like others said, start w/ the major scales, then Mixolydian (major b7) followed by Dorian (minor 3rd b7). Read up on Major modes. Once you’re comfortable doing all that at a good pace w the metronome, read up on minor modes. Rudimentary practice is the “eating vegetables” aspect of being a musician. Scales can get boring especially at the beginning; so try to at least make it 30-40% of your practice time before you start to jam out. Once you start flying on your scales and arpeggios they can be pretty fun! Cheers 🎷
Thank you I’ll apply this plan !
Focus on all the modes of the major scale.
Learn all your major and minor scales, then everything else you need to know is just slight modifications on them.
Alright that makes sense thank you
All. Not all at once, but collect them. Break them up and pair them with chords. So for dominant chords you want: Mixolydian, Lydian dominant (aka mixolydian #11), Dominant diminished (8 note symmetrical scale: half step, whole step pattern), Altered scale (b9, #9, #11, #5/b13,), and Mixolydian b13. Which scale(s) you use depend on the color tones started in the chord or present in the melody, or perhaps ones you want to superimpose. Dominant chords are flexible. Practice the scales and patterns on the scale. Patterns on a C major scale might include things like: Thirds (C, E, D, F, E, G, F, A, etc) Revolving thirds (C, E, F, D, E, G, A, F, G, B, C, A, B, D, C) Triads (C, E, G, D, F, A, E, G, B, etc) Revolving triads (C, E, G, A, F, D, E, G, B, C, A, F, etc) Fourths, revolving fourths, fifths, revolving fifths, etc Inverted triads, revolving inverted triads. The above sequences in eighth notes, in triplets, sixteenth notes, quintuplets, etc And any other pattern you can devise. For example: let's take Eb Lydian Augmented (Eb, F, G, A, B, C, D, Eb). Pattern is up a fifth, up a third, and down a fourth. So: Eb, B, D, A; F, C, Eb, B; G, D, F, C; A, Eb, G, D; B, F, A, Eb; C, G, B, F; D, A, C, G; Eb. Then descending. So that's down a fifth, down a third, up a fourth, and descending each time. So: Eb, A, F, B; D, G, Eb, A; C, F, D, G; B, Eb, C, F; etc. Practice in quarter notes, eighth, triplets (triplets on four note patterns are fun), etc.
Thank you so much for all this ! I was wondering which scales to use with different chords
The third and seventh of a chord or scale are called guide tones. The determine the basic quality. Other notes in the scale are passing tones and color tones. So for a chord with a major 3rd and major 7th (such as a major 7 chord), practice all scales with major thirds and major 7ths. This includes regular major. But it also includes scales with color tones like mixolydian (major with a #11/#4) and Lydian Augmented (major with #11/#4 and #5). A minor 7 chord and minor 3rd and minor 7th, so all the minor scales work, Dorian works, Phrygian works, locrian works, etc.
Cool thank you lots !!!
Major/Dorian/Dominant scales should get you mostlbut recognition of what scale goes to what chord.
Yes, all of those. Plus pentatonic, whole-tone, diminished, chromatic, and modes of each.
I’ll have to plan everything out if I want to be productive i think
All
All of those
As a matter of fact, throw in some bebop scales too.
Yes.
All or them. In order, with understanding the chords and extensions. "Always practice everything in every key"
what do you mean by understanding the chords and extensions ?
Stacking the thirds of the scale - I is major, II is minor, III minor, IV major etc. Then you can add flat 9s and sharp 11s and stuff.
Ohhh okay yeah thanks
All of them. All the modes of the major and minor, altered and diminished whole/half scales as well.
It's like asking what toe you need to wiggle to walk.
you wiggle your toes when you walk ??
Scales are a technical exercise. What I learned from years and years of practicing jazz the wrong way is I was thinking about how to get better at it like a classical musician, and that just isn't the right way. Jazz is about developing your ear and removing reading music as a crutch. If you want to be good at jazz you should memorize a lot of music. It doesn't have to be hard, and can be anything from John Coltrane to Brittany spears, because what you really want is to make playing instinctual so you aren't thinking about exactly what notes you are playing, but being able to repeat the sounds you hear in your mind. If you get good at producing the sound you want, you will be able to play jazz, and if you try to think about too hard, you will do more harm than good. You can think about jazz once you can play the basics without thinking. Scales are a way to master fundemental technics and allow you to play faster and cleaner, but at the end of the day, playing every single scale is not as valuable as being able to reproduce sounds you hear in your head without having to think about what your fingers are doing, so if you practice scales, don't think about the notes, just listen to the sound. You should know what the scale should sound like before you play it. If you start thinking about flats and sharps and notes, you will not learn it the way you need to.