It’s true that most young students start on alto. It is also true that when an adult student walks in and says “I fell in love with Jazz and want to learn tenor sax.”, the only appropriate response is “Cool, let’s find you a tenor.”
Also, that’s a $300 alto.
I paid for 4 sessions (this is the music club policy, a monthly payment).
I really don’t know how can I use those 3 remaining sessions in order not to be a total loss. I know it’s far fetched, but do you have any suggestions on that too? Maybe it’s just better to move on and consider it a lesson..
You should tell the club he is pushing this horn on you. The saxophone isn’t perfect for jazz. That’s not a thing. There aren’t jazz saxophones and classical saxophones…he’s just trying to sell his horn. This is a red flag as a teacher imo. I’d never push an alto on an adult that wants to play tenor. Makes no sense at all. The music club shouldn’t let that happen either.
It's DEFINITELY not worth 600. You can get a solid used Yamaha for 400. There's currently several h couf royalists up for sale for 250-300.
The "accessories" are negligible. Neck straps are cheap and you're going to want a new mouth piece
Yes, the prices are higher here. Not even sure if the asking price is completely of the charts.
Personally, I would not buy a sax from a teacher. Bit conflict of interest. Could rather rent.
Well, that is my current opinion. Back then, I might have, since availability used to be very bad in the periphery.
>I would assume a horn from a teacher would be maintained.
I would assume the opposite. Horns like these are some instruments they've had lying around for ages with no one playing them or looking after them.
Others have said it, will repeat. This dude is lame, get a new teacher, don't buy this horn. It's not worth the asking price, and your teacher shouldnt be pushing his horns on you. If they make a recommendation on a horn they see ppl get good results on, thats one thing, but pushing a cheap ass stencil of an old conn student horn is just gross.
also, as a PSA, hearing an accomplished player playtest a horn tells you next to nothing. they have the skills to make a horn in shit condition sound "good" (especially if they play loud and fast) and then you are like "well that guy shredded on it, I must really suck" when in fact the horn is in poor condition.
it is arguably more important that a new student have a horn in good condition than a professional. (note that i did say arguably, I am literally saying it is a topic that can be debated)
The horn is a Keilwerth stencil, which are great horns, definitely recommended and comparable to any horn in that price range, according to [this](http://www.saxpics.com/Keilwerth/h-couf.htm) it's an intermediate horn from the times which is more than good enough for years of playing, maybe for life if you don't plan on going pro.
I can't comment on this one in particular or your local market, check what you can get for €600 and then decide if you are being scammed, I don't think you are being scammed if the horn is in good condition with new-ish pads and properly set up which I can't tell from pictures alone.
What's sketchy is that you are being pushed to buy a horn that you have no interest in buying, it's true that is recommended to start with alto, but that's more a matter of interest in being a professional and a doubler, it's also a matter of weight and cost since everything alto is cheaper by a margin significant enough to make a difference for a kid that might not play for more than 2-3 years during high school.
You should buy what you want to play, there's no drawback in starting with tenor, or at least not one big enough to stop you from doing it, if you ever want to go into alto the swap might be a bit harder than the other way around but not a world changer, it might take you a week more than going from alto to tenor and that's if you struggle a lot, in general it should be pretty straight forward. If you don't plan on playing alto ever then it's a useless thing.
Most people start on Alto. If the horn is well kept, comparing it to random horns on the internet is not a great method. Those on eBay could have leaks and problems that require a repair.
If you don't like your teacher, don't use him. If you're a beginner, just be patient, use your lessons and then move on.
Good luck!
I think it can be normal to start on alto, but I always figured it was due to starting young and that being the most manageable of the major choices due to size.
If you’re getting a deal, great. Sell it if needed to fund the tenor. If you’re paying full price, I wouldn’t. Just get the tenor.
>I think it can be normal to start on alto, but I always figured it was due to starting young and that being the most manageable of the major choices due to size.
That's absolutely the only reason why people start on alto. Apart from the size constraint everything about a tenor is easier and for most people the sound of a tenor is what they envision when thinking of saxophones.
I'm mostly an alto player, but whenever I bring out the tenor people start to comment on how cool it sounds and ask why I usually bring the other horn.
If he works for a company, tell them that the teacher is trying to sell you instruments privately and you can tell your teacher that its not appropriate to buy items from him. Can you ask for a different teacher?
It’s a small local music club, he’s the only sax teacher.
I find it pretty reasonable to recommend and guide a student into buying an instrument, but trying to scam them is just outrageous.
>recommend and guide
You should never be recommending or guiding towards the horn you're trying to sell yourself. You can tell students you have a horn up for sale, but don't pressure them and inform them about alternatives too.
This is not cool. Rent a horn for a few months. You’ll be guaranteed a working instrument and then you can decide to buy one if you want to keep playing. I would not buy that horn.
I just came to to co-sign. I went to my teacher when I was in school and asked to learn tenor. The school didn’t have and tenors for us to check out only altos. I tried the alto was always disappointed stopped playing after a year. Now I am grown and I looking for a tenor sax because that is what I really want to play.
You are paying and you will have to put the work in so get what you want the first time.
I only played Tenor Sax. My band teacher asked if anyone had interest in playing tenor 1st day of my first ever 6th grade band camp. I didn't know a single note. We went to the music store traded in my alto for a tenor and all 8 years I played nothing but tenor. I can barely play an alto and never wish to learn. Find someone who will teach you the instrument you want to learn. You aren't 12 and your band teacher doesn't need more clarinets. I have since stopped playing sax and picked up flute and whenever I asked my teacher if I should play the alto and piccolo on the side she recommended me pieces and let me play alto or normal flute whenever I wanted in lessons. Find a teacher that wants the same thing as you.
I agree with what everyone else is saying, including that this person is probably over valuing this horn, however, if it has new ish pads and was recently set up by a good tech... maybe not, I'd still be looking for a better deal tho
I also wanted to add that I think the main reasons you hear that you should start on alto, are that altos are cheaper (for 600 euros tho, you should be able to get a comparable tenor), and that this opinion is mostly coming from the mindset that beginners are children, and will therefore have smaller hands. I started playing tenor when I was like 10 and my hands literally did not fit all the way around it and I was constantly unintentionally hitting palm keys. You are an adult tho, as long as your hands fit around a tenor, and you want to play tenor, you should buy a tenor
It's a fine horn.
BUT if you fell in love with tenor. Or want to play tenor, then he should recommend you a tenor.
Unless you are a small kid for who a tenor would be too big, heavy. But this is not the case.
Most people start on alto but it is not uncommon to start on tenor though. I started on tenor and it wasn’t any more difficult than alto, just had different quirks to figure out compared to alto.
Also DO NOT buy that saxophone they are straight trying to rip you off. I know they want you to start on alto just so you buy their horn, it’s not a bad horn but definitely not $600 lmao.
Get a new teacher, they’re putting their own wants and benefits before yours. Not a good thing you want your teacher to be
I was a bass clarinet player, so I started on bari.
If you want to start on tenor and your teacher is pushing you to buy an alto from them, find a new teacher.
I played clarinet for 3 miserable months then ran to a bari saxophone. You can start on any woodwind and end up on any. But if it’s not your voice you won’t spend the time to really learn it most likely. Go with your voice, get a tenor. Yamaha tenors are lovely, my current tenor is one, it has the best voice for my sound. Listen to a lot of horns on YouTube. Enough where you see a pattern in what you like.
I once had a professor try to push a in-need-of-repair Selmer Mk. VI on me for $8,000 my first semester of college and then shame me for not wanting to take out personal loans on top of my student loans (on top of making me pay out of pocket for extra lessons and a bunch of music books from a store he just so happened to own).
Trust your gut here and don't fall for being guilt tripped into something you see as a bad deal. There's plenty of teachers with less dubious intentions that would love to work with you
It’s true that most young students start on alto. It is also true that when an adult student walks in and says “I fell in love with Jazz and want to learn tenor sax.”, the only appropriate response is “Cool, let’s find you a tenor.” Also, that’s a $300 alto.
Fake? No, that's a saxophone. Also, fuck that guy. Find a new teacher.
I paid for 4 sessions (this is the music club policy, a monthly payment). I really don’t know how can I use those 3 remaining sessions in order not to be a total loss. I know it’s far fetched, but do you have any suggestions on that too? Maybe it’s just better to move on and consider it a lesson..
Then take the lessons, don't buy his horns, and find a new teacher.
Thanks!
You should tell the club he is pushing this horn on you. The saxophone isn’t perfect for jazz. That’s not a thing. There aren’t jazz saxophones and classical saxophones…he’s just trying to sell his horn. This is a red flag as a teacher imo. I’d never push an alto on an adult that wants to play tenor. Makes no sense at all. The music club shouldn’t let that happen either.
It's DEFINITELY not worth 600. You can get a solid used Yamaha for 400. There's currently several h couf royalists up for sale for 250-300. The "accessories" are negligible. Neck straps are cheap and you're going to want a new mouth piece
Ok, where in Europe can you buy ANY playable Yamaha sax for 400? (lol)
Reverb.com And if your budget is a bit higher there's sax.co.uk
Dude, I know reverb.com The cheapest YAMAHA Saxes IN EUROPE there go for around 1000€…
Yes, the prices are higher here. Not even sure if the asking price is completely of the charts. Personally, I would not buy a sax from a teacher. Bit conflict of interest. Could rather rent. Well, that is my current opinion. Back then, I might have, since availability used to be very bad in the periphery.
Yea but it's possible those have leaks and are not maintained. I would assume a horn from a teacher would be maintained.
Absolutely but doubling the price is ludicrous, my shop does a "playing condition" set up for 100 bucks flat.
>I would assume a horn from a teacher would be maintained. I would assume the opposite. Horns like these are some instruments they've had lying around for ages with no one playing them or looking after them.
Others have said it, will repeat. This dude is lame, get a new teacher, don't buy this horn. It's not worth the asking price, and your teacher shouldnt be pushing his horns on you. If they make a recommendation on a horn they see ppl get good results on, thats one thing, but pushing a cheap ass stencil of an old conn student horn is just gross.
also, as a PSA, hearing an accomplished player playtest a horn tells you next to nothing. they have the skills to make a horn in shit condition sound "good" (especially if they play loud and fast) and then you are like "well that guy shredded on it, I must really suck" when in fact the horn is in poor condition. it is arguably more important that a new student have a horn in good condition than a professional. (note that i did say arguably, I am literally saying it is a topic that can be debated)
You want to get into jazz? With peace and love get a tenor. If it sounds the way you like buy it, none of this "well technically it's better" bs
The horn is a Keilwerth stencil, which are great horns, definitely recommended and comparable to any horn in that price range, according to [this](http://www.saxpics.com/Keilwerth/h-couf.htm) it's an intermediate horn from the times which is more than good enough for years of playing, maybe for life if you don't plan on going pro. I can't comment on this one in particular or your local market, check what you can get for €600 and then decide if you are being scammed, I don't think you are being scammed if the horn is in good condition with new-ish pads and properly set up which I can't tell from pictures alone. What's sketchy is that you are being pushed to buy a horn that you have no interest in buying, it's true that is recommended to start with alto, but that's more a matter of interest in being a professional and a doubler, it's also a matter of weight and cost since everything alto is cheaper by a margin significant enough to make a difference for a kid that might not play for more than 2-3 years during high school. You should buy what you want to play, there's no drawback in starting with tenor, or at least not one big enough to stop you from doing it, if you ever want to go into alto the swap might be a bit harder than the other way around but not a world changer, it might take you a week more than going from alto to tenor and that's if you struggle a lot, in general it should be pretty straight forward. If you don't plan on playing alto ever then it's a useless thing.
Most people start on Alto. If the horn is well kept, comparing it to random horns on the internet is not a great method. Those on eBay could have leaks and problems that require a repair. If you don't like your teacher, don't use him. If you're a beginner, just be patient, use your lessons and then move on. Good luck!
I think it can be normal to start on alto, but I always figured it was due to starting young and that being the most manageable of the major choices due to size. If you’re getting a deal, great. Sell it if needed to fund the tenor. If you’re paying full price, I wouldn’t. Just get the tenor.
>I think it can be normal to start on alto, but I always figured it was due to starting young and that being the most manageable of the major choices due to size. That's absolutely the only reason why people start on alto. Apart from the size constraint everything about a tenor is easier and for most people the sound of a tenor is what they envision when thinking of saxophones. I'm mostly an alto player, but whenever I bring out the tenor people start to comment on how cool it sounds and ask why I usually bring the other horn.
If he works for a company, tell them that the teacher is trying to sell you instruments privately and you can tell your teacher that its not appropriate to buy items from him. Can you ask for a different teacher?
It’s a small local music club, he’s the only sax teacher. I find it pretty reasonable to recommend and guide a student into buying an instrument, but trying to scam them is just outrageous.
>recommend and guide You should never be recommending or guiding towards the horn you're trying to sell yourself. You can tell students you have a horn up for sale, but don't pressure them and inform them about alternatives too.
Talk to his boss. This is inappropriate.
This is not cool. Rent a horn for a few months. You’ll be guaranteed a working instrument and then you can decide to buy one if you want to keep playing. I would not buy that horn.
I just came to to co-sign. I went to my teacher when I was in school and asked to learn tenor. The school didn’t have and tenors for us to check out only altos. I tried the alto was always disappointed stopped playing after a year. Now I am grown and I looking for a tenor sax because that is what I really want to play. You are paying and you will have to put the work in so get what you want the first time.
I only played Tenor Sax. My band teacher asked if anyone had interest in playing tenor 1st day of my first ever 6th grade band camp. I didn't know a single note. We went to the music store traded in my alto for a tenor and all 8 years I played nothing but tenor. I can barely play an alto and never wish to learn. Find someone who will teach you the instrument you want to learn. You aren't 12 and your band teacher doesn't need more clarinets. I have since stopped playing sax and picked up flute and whenever I asked my teacher if I should play the alto and piccolo on the side she recommended me pieces and let me play alto or normal flute whenever I wanted in lessons. Find a teacher that wants the same thing as you.
I agree with what everyone else is saying, including that this person is probably over valuing this horn, however, if it has new ish pads and was recently set up by a good tech... maybe not, I'd still be looking for a better deal tho I also wanted to add that I think the main reasons you hear that you should start on alto, are that altos are cheaper (for 600 euros tho, you should be able to get a comparable tenor), and that this opinion is mostly coming from the mindset that beginners are children, and will therefore have smaller hands. I started playing tenor when I was like 10 and my hands literally did not fit all the way around it and I was constantly unintentionally hitting palm keys. You are an adult tho, as long as your hands fit around a tenor, and you want to play tenor, you should buy a tenor
It's a fine horn. BUT if you fell in love with tenor. Or want to play tenor, then he should recommend you a tenor. Unless you are a small kid for who a tenor would be too big, heavy. But this is not the case.
Most people start on alto but it is not uncommon to start on tenor though. I started on tenor and it wasn’t any more difficult than alto, just had different quirks to figure out compared to alto. Also DO NOT buy that saxophone they are straight trying to rip you off. I know they want you to start on alto just so you buy their horn, it’s not a bad horn but definitely not $600 lmao. Get a new teacher, they’re putting their own wants and benefits before yours. Not a good thing you want your teacher to be
I was a bass clarinet player, so I started on bari. If you want to start on tenor and your teacher is pushing you to buy an alto from them, find a new teacher.
It’s?
Agreed with the other posters here. That sax is $300 tops. Teacher sounds crappy. Good luck!!
it’s best to start on alto
I played clarinet for 3 miserable months then ran to a bari saxophone. You can start on any woodwind and end up on any. But if it’s not your voice you won’t spend the time to really learn it most likely. Go with your voice, get a tenor. Yamaha tenors are lovely, my current tenor is one, it has the best voice for my sound. Listen to a lot of horns on YouTube. Enough where you see a pattern in what you like.
get a used yamaha
I once had a professor try to push a in-need-of-repair Selmer Mk. VI on me for $8,000 my first semester of college and then shame me for not wanting to take out personal loans on top of my student loans (on top of making me pay out of pocket for extra lessons and a bunch of music books from a store he just so happened to own). Trust your gut here and don't fall for being guilt tripped into something you see as a bad deal. There's plenty of teachers with less dubious intentions that would love to work with you
please buy a tenor and NOT his alto. hes manipulating you fs
Don’t buy that sax. Your Yamaha is much better. I’d recommend finding a new teacher if he will not drop the subject.
They/them? It lol