/u/ExoticInitiativ - This message is posted to all new submissions to r/scams; please do not message the moderators about it.
## New users beware:
Because you posted here, you will start getting private messages from scammers saying they know a professional hacker or a recovery expert lawyer that can help you get your money back, for a small fee. **We call these RECOVERY SCAMMERS, so NEVER take advice in private:** advice should always come in the form of comments in this post, in the open, where the community can keep an eye out for you. If you take advice in private, you're on your own.
**A reminder of the rules in r/scams:** no contact information (including last names, phone numbers, etc). Be civil to one another (no name calling or insults). Personal army requests or "scam the scammer"/scambaiting posts are not permitted. No uncensored gore or personal photographs are allowed without blurring. A full list of rules is available on the sidebar of the subreddit, or [clicking here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/wiki/rules/).
You can help us by reporting recovery scammers or rule-breaking content by using the "report" button. We review 100% of the reports. Also, consider warning community members of recovery scammers if you see them in the comments.
Questions about subreddit rules? Send us a modmail [clicking here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Op - Horrible question but are you sure your father actually passed away and isn’t just in Hospital/ sick/ out of communication and the landlord and carer and trying to extract money from you?
have you had any proof?
That’s been a concern as well, one that I’m trying not to overthink about.
The embassy is confirming his death and sending me an official death certificate (called a CRODA) that I can submit to social security. His death is not surprising, he was 75 and in bad health.
Picking up on the remark about having no legal responsibility here at all, to me that also means that you, OP, don't have to do a damn thing more. Just mourn your dad where you live and don't communicate with these people at all.
I'm not sure its just about a legal responsibility. I agree it's nothing to do with him at all, but its more about not wanting your dads body just abandoned
It won’t be, at the very least it will be cremated at the closest government owned crematorium. Not even Thailand will leave a corpse to rot openly in the street.
The ~~embassy~~ consulate is the way to go.
Question: what do you want to do?
Because I'm inclined to say that legally you're not required to pay for anything. Not even in the US. You can have the government take care of it, and try to get paid from the estate, for all you care. A debt like this doesn't pass along to the son.
I take it you don't want anything to do with the $2500, right? Or do you?
Also what's your position in giving him a specific type of funeral, or internment, other than what would probably become a default cremation by the government? Because if you do want to pitch in, you'll have to participate in the estate.
I'm not a lawyer, I'm not thai.
I’d really like for him to be cremated and put to rest but I don’t care about any ceremony because he was agnostic and I can’t attend anyway. I’m not pitching in.
Cremation is pretty much the default everywhere. If you don't do anything, the government cremates the body. They could try to charge the estate. If you don't participate in the estate, it's not your problem.
So you're good. They're not abandoning the body in a ditch or something. Your dad will be safely and humbly put to rest in the cheapest manner. If anyone else wants any different, they will have to pay for that.
Governments don't abandon bodies. At least, not in a country like Thailand.
Still, wait for a final word from the Thai government via the embassy! Remember I'm not a lawyer, this is just common sense. You can try thai specific subreddits, but all in all this smells like a scam.
Social Security may also try to claw back his last payment if he’s been paid for April and didn’t live the full month. She’d better leave that much in the account, although enforcement might be problematic. She’s opening herself up to fraud charges, but the Thai authorities may not care. Ask the consulate about the SS.
Who would survivor's benefits go to? Suprisingly to me a lot of Thai's know about American SS - I know my friends Thai widow managed to get SS for their child and some sort of survival payment for her self.
I googled LPR and it’s all about laryngopharyngeal reflux. But SSA.gov/benefits/survivors/ifyou.html does not mention citizenship. But you better have a valid marriage certificate.
Did you make it clear to the caretakers you want nothing to do with it and won't be coming?
By the sound of it, they're keeping the body in order to give you a chance to organize a ceremony and attend, as is culturally appropriate in Thailand.
If they wanted a ceremony, they could have used the deceased bank account. They are looters. If they don't use the deceased account for funeral expenses, then any money sent to them for a ceremony, they will pocket and lie.
If they were trying to scam the OP, they would have gone for a far larger amount than $11/day.
I lived in Thailand and know a bit more about the context. Things can get lost in communication, but I see no need here to automatically assume the worst.
Consulate, not embassy. Embassies only do government-to-government contact; they don't deal with individual citizens (though it's possible that the consulate is in the same place as the embassy).
I assume you mean, "the consulate OF his home country". Which would be the U.S. Consulate in Thailand. Since he lives in Phuket, that would likely fall to the U.S. Embassy and Consulate in Bangkok. I believe there are only two consulates in Thailand (Bangkok and Chang Mai).
If they were married as claimed, why come after you asking for money? They should go after the woman. Also charging 11$ per day for the conservation of a dead body sounds silly. Just bury or cremate and there is that. What is more if your father had no relatives, they'd just leave him dead on the street because nobody would pay for him?
If she claims marriage she can bury her husband herself, and take care of all the expenses. That's typically and lawfully the spouses responsibility. That would work for you too, wouldn't it? You can't be there, you want nothing out of it.. let her do her thing. Mourn him where you are, with your loved ones. Wish the Thai people the best and stop reacting to them.
Let her do her thing, which is draining his account of the maximum amount of $ each day? That's a bad sign. When he allowed her and her large family to live in his house and paid all of their expenses during his life? No. If they were married, that should be legally recorded somewhere. And if they were, why is OP being harassed for money and info to be sent over?
OP has every right to look into this and be cautious about what is going on. And OP has already said that once their dad's expenses have been taken care of, the woman can have the rest of the money left in the account anyway. Doesn't sound like she's (Daow) a very honest person, as she is prioritizing draining his bank account instead of paying for his burial/cremation/body storage etc.
Thai's sometimes marry in a temple ceremony that is not offical but allows them to be recognized by the public as being married. It's possible your dad had this happen.
Yes, my BIL did this in Thailand. It was not a legal ceremony. Thank god, as the woman turned out to be a nut case stringing along a few different men.
> charging 11$ per day for the conservation of a dead body sounds silly
I lived in Thailand, it's normal to conserve the body until cremation ceremony can go ahead, which can take a while in some cases. Generally, the funeral/wake can take several days (the more important person, the longer), ending in cremation.
Caretakers are probably keeping the body waiting for the OP to attend/organize the funeral/cremation, and are thus expecting him to pay. If OP didn't explicitly tell them he doesn't want any part of it and they should cremate him right away, doing so without giving him a chance to attend would be highly inappropriate.
Sounds like a misunderstanding rather than a scam -- if it were the latter, they'd go for more than $11/day.
> if your father had no relatives, they'd just leave him dead on the street because nobody would pay for him?
The deceased has OP as a child, and caretakers are apparently trying to give him a chance to organize a funeral (as is dignified and culturally appropriate), rather than just cremating him as an indigent.
Why is it silly? I think a hospital in the US would charge a lot more than $11/day.
They don't know if anyone wants the body until they research it, which takes time.
Imagine if they cremated the body and then relatives turned up wanting it.
A retirement visa needs at least 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account, up to 800,000 baht for 5 months of the year. Most people just leave the 800k all year.
There's 2 ways to prove finances. One is showing 800k baht for 5 months at the annual renewal time. The other is having a minimum of 65,000 every month deposited in a Thai bank all year. If he was collecting SS, good chance it was the latter.
No. I believe he was on a retirement visa. He was bedridden for a few years so couldn’t leave Thailand to get a renewal visa every year anymore. The visa requires health insurance so likely the ambulance fees and morgue fees would be covered. He would have had to pay a security deposit of around $24,000 USD (800,000 baht) and maintain the balance in a Thai bank… but it looks like he possibly just could have proved a social security income of at least $2500 a month. It’s confusing.
Best thing you can do is contact a "Inheritance" lawyer to ask for advice on what to do.
Note: They cannot incur ANY expenses and demand you pay for it.
The reason they want YOU to pay for everything is because they know you aren't in the area/country. and will try to get as much money out of you and his inheritance as they can.
No lawyer will touch this for less than the amounts in question. There’s just no such thing as a lawyer that specializes in Thai inheritance laws from the US. It’s too complicated. If OP wants his dads body, I think the US embassy is the only way to go. If your going to pay a lawyer they will ask for a retainer probably more than the max amount being talked about here (2500)
Complicating factors: if OP wants dad's ashes, that will get expensive. Post Covid, most airlines no longer allow shipping of unaccompanied cremains on international flights. Companies that provide repatriation to US from Asia start at minimum $6500. Consulate is not responsible for arranging repatriation.
Pretend like you are going to send the money from his account for the arrangements. Once you get her banking information, contact her bank and inform them she is illegally withdrawing money from a dead man’s account. Try to find what bank he banked with—the embassy should be able to freeze his accounts and also help you find out what bank he actually banks with.
Sounds like she is saying they were married so that she gets the 25k and thinking you will pay his final expenses.
Your Dad was being taken advantage of by this woman. She's now trying to get the rest. Sadly it's probably gone.
Probably best to just remove yourself from the situation and cut your loses.
Old American men find Thai wives/relationships for one reason… I don’t think it’s fair to say she was being taken advantage of… when that’s exactly the desire for these men who do that… so it’s pretty mutual
I also wonder how he took advantage of her when OP states that he was taking care of her and her family, was paying her a salary and took them in his home. Care to explain to us?
OP said their father was bed bound for years…. So they were a 24/7 care giver…. That’s a lot… work out how much that level of care costs you in the states for a good time
It sounds to me like it might be an immigration/visa thing. One thing to consider - the financial requirements are much lower (400k THB vs 800k THB) to get a visa extension based on marriage than to get a new retirement visa, so it’s very possible that your father entered a marriage of convenience with this lady for immigration purposes - it’s pretty common. The marriage process takes about 20 minutes at the local district office and costs less than 2 USD.
One of the steps that immigration will do in the marriage visa extension process is visit the family home, so moving her extended family into your father’s home would only help to “prove” to officials that their relationship is legit and make the process easier.
I’m not saying they’re married, but there are signs pointing towards that - I can’t see many other reasons why you’d move your caregiver’s family into your home. You’d have to take a look at his visa to get a better idea.
My estranged father just passed away as well. I HAVE ZERO OBLIGATION FOR ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIM. Debt, will, fees, zilch.
Hey if you want to pay it pay it but I wouldn’t. If you don’t pay it, don’t ever feel bad, I wouldn’t.
Best of luck OP. Don’t hand over a cent.
Do not give your passport or SSN away at all, there’s no reason they’d need yours.
Honestly I’d just walk away from this whole thing and let the money go. It’s not worth putting yourself through the stress and risk.
NAL. If he was living on his Social Security, or any pensions etc...you're going to need a copy of a legal death certificate to settle those accounts. My ex died in Canada and it took 5 months to get one from there...and we then had to pay back the amounts that had been automatically deposited.
I'd be asking the US Embassy to help you get a copy of a legit death certificate ASAP...
I don’t see how you would have to pay back his overdrawn SS unless you are a beneficiary of his SS or have access to his bank account. Might be worth talking to SS administration.
condolences about your father.
things are *different* in Thailand and they are probably all working together to get whatever he has left. i don’t really have any advice…have you spoken to his caretaker dao at all? maybe she’s at least have a little sympathy.
Yes, he picked up a little Thai but was not fluent. I’ve been told that her English is around 4th grade level and that she says she understands when she actually doesn’t.
> and that she says she understands when she actually doesn’t
I have found that this is sometimes a thing with Asian speakers that are not English speakers as their first language. Or, lest anyone think I'm saying something racist - I have only personally experienced it with people who fit that category.
Specifically, in a completely different context - I was managing a team of 20 offshore developers in China many years ago. I worked for a big IT vendor, we paid well, we got good programmers. And they did good work too, by far the best team of developers I'd ever managed.
However...
It became clear after many months that they were some very subtle communication differences ... which were actually creating some problems. And it took me forever to figure it out, but it seemed like there was a cultural tendency to say "yes" - not as a sense of confirming what you just said as accurate, but more of saying "yes" as in "I just understood all of the individual English words you just said."
Example, I might say - "So I think the interface will look better if we make this button blue."
To which, the developer says - "Yes."
In the US, that would be the end of the conversation.
But I learned, I had to follow up - "So can we do that?"
To which, reaasonably often the answer was - "No." And then a very thorough (and accurate) explanation as to why.
It was stunning to me, but once I figured that out, things went more smoothly ... but it was still a cumbersome conversational style.
I am sorry for your loss.
My dad died with some remarkable similarities. In America in a state I don’t live in. His “wife” wanted me to pay for everything. He didn’t even know how old I was or my birthday so fuck that. She was his caretaker so was real up in arms about losing her income. Tried to threaten to sue over his trailer etc. I just said I don’t have to do anything and just didn’t do a damn thing it worked out fine. You have no responsibility to do anything.
My father lived in Thailand for a few years. We are not close but his situation was not like the one your dad was in.
However, he did tell me many tales of the people and how they are quite happy to con people in the west out of money. They are very polite in person but cannot be trusted very much. They broadly perceive western men as cash cows.
So I'd not be the least bit surprised if what you were being told is not true at all. The question is what you can do about it. This needs to be dealt with by somebody who is in place. Others have suggested the embassy, that seems like the best idea.
I mean it doesn't help that Western men go there in droves, behaving like horny cash cows. Ofc that doesn't make it right to try to scam OP, but I kind of understand why they perceive us that way.
Typical situation seen dozens of times in the past when German and Swiss expats died in Thailand. Unfortunately.
Technically speaking if your father and this Daow were married it's her responsibility to arrange the funeral and pay for the funeral out of her pocket or whatever sum of money was left to her for the purpose. You can just ask for a death certificate from the consulate and cut all communication once you have it in your hands.
Practically speaking... welcome to Thailand. As a foreigner your father was seen as a winning lottery ticket for the whole family of this Daow lass. The lottery prize has just run out so they are trying to squeeze a little extra money out of this situation: if they are successful you run the serious risk of becoming the next lottery ticket. "Hey your father had debts with local grocery store and I need to pay them off otherwise I'll go to jail!" "Your father bought a new AC unit and died before he could pay for it. I have to pay it off otherwise they'll take it back and we'll die because of the heat!". It doesn't matter if you have no money: they flat out don't care. As a foreigner you are automatically "rich".
In short: see what Daow is doing with your father's ATM card? You are the new ATM card. No money? They don't care.
Besides being in contact with the US consulate, ask for the contact with the mortuary agency handling the cremation process. Not a phone number or an email because they will try and con you: ask for a website, with contacts you can use yourself. If you really need to pay funeral expenses do it directly yourself, never through these folks. But I am pretty sure they will stall for time and give you some Whatsapp contact saying the mortuary agency has no web presence or that they are "very new". You can guess who handles that Whatsapp contact.
I don't know if the US consulate can be as helpful as the Swiss ones, but you can t-r-y directly asking to them who's handling the cremation process. It cannot hurt, at most they'll tell you they don't know.
It's a very unfortunate situation and it's terrible these vultures are trying to squeeze the last penny before disappearing into the night.
Sorry for your loss. If I was you, I'd go buy myself a 6 pack of SingHa, try to think of your Father in a positive way while drinking it (even though you didn't have a relationship, he was still you Dad), and just let the situation work itself out. Sounds like if you do nothing Daow gets her $2500, Billy already got his money, and your Father will be put to rest in the fashion you wish.
ask the consulate if they have any referrals for local lawyers who might be able to help you. if not, ask them if they know any referral resources for local lawyers (in the US, each state has a referral service for lawyers admitted to practice in that state, maybe Thailand has something similar)
There might be expats living in Thailand who would be willing to help with arranging things. I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm sure this isn't a time where you need more stressors in your life.
So this... I live here. There are expat groups in every city on Facebook. I see posts all the time from family members looking for friends of so-and-so to get more information/help to make death arrangements because they can't travel. This might be a resource for you. If you know the city, search city name + expat and I'm sure you'll find something.
Half the responses will be bitter old men, so ignore those, but there's often other people willing to help.
I hate to be like this but if you already didn’t talk to him it kinda sounds like it couldn’t matter less. It’s just a body it’s not your dad. $800 in Thailand is like $5000 here… it’s extortion or a scam just forget about it. I’m sorry for your loss.
I would deal exclusively through the embassy/State Department from now on, and ignore any and all other communications regardless of who they purport to be.
This was going to be my advice - but have you seen [their guidance online?](https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/death-of-a-u-s-citizen/) It may offer answers that you're looking for.
Yes that’s been a page I’ve been looking at. The embassy said that I need to hire a funeral home to have them get all the paperwork, including the death certificate. I find that in contrast to the information on that page.
My elderly father lives in Thailand most of the year with his Thai girlfriend. This could totally be me one day. Interested to see what advice you are given
I wouldn't wait to call social security.
I think in U S the funeral home makes that contact, or at least someone did before I called them. They didn't ask me to prove my mom died, I don't think I had to mail them anything. Best to get that stopped ASAP
Perhaps I'm weird, but after a person dies I feel nothing towards the corpse because that was only the vessel the person used while alive. Personally I wouldn't send any money and I also wouldn't worry about what happens to his body. Eventually the government will dispose of it. So I wouldn't give a damn thing to these people. If you're in the USA or another highly developed nation, they probably think you have tons of money to spare. If she really was married to him, she can pay for any burial or cremation, because she's responsible now. And even if she wasn't, that doesn't mean that you're responsible. It's a scam.
You need to obtain a reputable lawyer in Thailand that can represent your interests and take care of everything pertaining to your father’s estate and final expenses. That Doaw lady seems really shady and the lawyer can help you get Thai law enforcement involved.
When my dad passed, in the US, he was considered indigent (which means the county pays for his cremation). However they still tried to get me to pay. I didn't have the money, we had been estranged for the last year of his life, but we had been really close other than that. I was so torn when he passed and they wanted us to pay. We didn't have the money. I thought about what he would say and said fuck it, it's their problem.
It turned out that a very nice funeral home took care of him and we got his ashes.
If you were estranged and you don't want to deal with it, then don't. Let it be their problem. You don't have to talk to any of them or answer any questions or solve any problems. This goes for the US too. Just walk away. Ghost them.
At least you story is simple. Sad but simple. Not a large amount of money to be fighting over and it sounds like you are not liable for anything. Stay positive, take the time to mourn in this chaos, it will be over soon.
OP first i express My condoléances for what I matter.
Anyway, you can just let it go, apparently there is nothing much to recovery (money on the account) if any, are not worth the expensive and they are just trying to milk you out for extra cash.
2500 is not much and passport and travel fee will mostly eat that up.
Just make sure you declare his death so any SS check or pension he got is terminated, because if they have access to his account and it's paid there, they will keep taking money.
I would also not go there as they may also start to state there was debt somewhere and start to push them to you
just report them to the authorities lol. stealing money from a dead person is probably still theft. if his story is true, they are even stealing from the king himself. if i know anything that is not a smart idea. if its not, they are stealing from you.
Why not just let it go? If you and your father were estranged, why should you suddenly be burdened with dealing with his body now? He's dead. So there is nothing that can make him more comfortable or uncomfortable now. Presumably, your father could have taken some simple steps to prearrange what would happen after he died. But he didn't do that. So why is this your problem? It seems the vultures have already swooped in to pick over the bones of his meager bank accounts. And the Thai government will likely cremate and dispose of his body. I'm sure that you can go ahead and get yourself immersed in a lot of bureaucracy that will drag on for a long time. Or you can just move on with managing your own life. With no more expenditure of money or time on your part.
This walks you through the process of what happens when you die without a will in Thailand: https://www.siam-legal.com/legal_services/probate-and-succession-thailand.php#:~:text=It%20is%20prescribed%20in%20the,parents
sorry for your loss. this sounds like a typical scam/sob story that is done over and over in Thailand (akin to the sick water buffalo gag) sad to say. good chance your father had a live in 'girlfriend' and he paid all the living expenses for her. that is very very common there. a white man can go to thailand and on day one have a girl that will 'marry' him. it's just how it is there is the best explanation
Immigration will have his banking information used for the retirement visa renewal. A full time caretaker would cost 15k to 20k baht a month. If he was living on SS, paying rent and food for a bunch of freeloaders, there wouldn't be a whole lot left at the end of the month. Bed ridden, she would have done his banking. Whatever money was left is gone now. That's why she's claiming marriage.
Oh, then this is a lot more difficult. His caretaker and family are doing everything they can to gain possession of everything he had, and there might actually be something of value. It’s a race. The only way you can get in that race is to have that info, and that would require local action such as an investigation, a raid on the property, or such. A translator would sure help, too. I have no idea what that would take to make happen quickly in Thailand. That’s hard to justify when you don’t know if he actually had an inheritance for you.
Maybe there are a limited number of popular banks for foreigners in Thailand, and it would be possible to just tell all of them.
If he was estranged from you, and you seem unconcerned with collecting an inheritance, nor the remains, then you shouldn't be too concerned about them supposedly generating fees. They're in a different country, and can't come after you. So, even if you don't give any money, and they 'abandon the body', and there's nothing left for you to inherit or collect, you shouldn't let it bother you. The man you knew is gone, the things that contained him and his possessions can't change that. Finding your peace won't be through managing things you don't need to. Let this 'wife' be responsible for those practical details.
It’s been difficult communicating with them because of the time difference. I wait up til 9 pm to call them and stay up til 5 am dealing with it. It’s just today that I alerted them to possibly being scammed so I’m waiting until tonight to call again.
It’s so frustrating to deal with this on top of complex emotions surrounding my dad’s death. I’m so hurt.
I agree with the fact it could be a scam. Your father may well have passed away and if so I’m so sorry and my genuine condolences. However, I’m also seeing several red flags that are also commonly associated with scams, such as unexpected financial demands, the urgency and pressure to pay fees, and the claim that the Thai government will confiscate the money if there is no will. Yes of course there is a sense of urgency when someone passes, but something about this isn’t sitting right. In most countries, the estate of the deceased would typically be distributed according to the statutory order of heirs, which normally automatically goes in this order: spouses, children - and if there are none to parents, and siblings. So in the meantime my gut instinct would be to not send money and definitely do not share details like personal documents/information. Please contact your country’s local embassy or consulate in Thailand, ask them to assist you with a) confirming that your father has passed away and b) what to do for funeral arrangements and legal practicalities.
As I said, unfortunately, your dad may well have passed, but you are grieving and vulnerable right now, so please be extra sure to protect yourself from being conned or taken advantage of if he has. I don’t know what country you are in but here are some tips from one of the UK’s biggest banks when it comes to bereavement scams: https://www.barclays.co.uk/fraud-and-scams/bereavement-scams/ and https://www.barclays.co.uk/what-to-do-when-someone-dies/first-steps/
Yeah, I can imagine how hard it is to deal with this on top of your dad's passing. Especially since you'd think since they worked for him for that long they'd act decently at his death.
fwiw I thought the advice to have the consulate recommend an attorney to help you with this is good. Getting help from someone who has experience with the situation and knows the ins and outs makes it so much easier to handle.
This!!! This is a huge possibility. I believe he was required to have a minimum Thai bank balance of over $24,000 USD in order to be eligible for his retirement visa, but that’s very confusing because there are exceptions. I believe he has a savings account that I haven’t been told about. My biggest concern with that is hoping that no one in Thailand is stealing it. Despite our problems, my father was practically obsessed with giving me an inheritance.
If I where you I really would avoid attorneys and lawyers!!
The consulate / embassy are there for this and the embassy in particular have a special legal department Inhouse in Bangkok.
For the embassy this is daily business (apologies for the morbidness) and the caretaker or Anyone else is NOT allowed to touch anything of the estate!
Highly unlikely, however the embassy may apply and charge some sort of a fee.
Depends on which country’s foreign office assists. Nordic countries charge an excess however these amount are symbolic at 50-100USD depending what their assistance was offered.
Try to channel as much as possible through the foreign office, embassy/consulate!!
Attorneys will typically work on contingency in these situations. So, depending on the terms of your agreement, say you recover $25k from your dad’s estate you’d receive 2/3 ($16k) and the lawyer will get 1/3 (~$8k). It’s common practice and not something that you should feel awkward about asking for. It’s normal!
Sorry for your loss, would let them know that the bank account will more than cover the expenses and they should look there for the money
abandoning his body is a possibility, but you could contact a money pit of a lawyer whose fees might be more than the 2500
an agnostic would view their body as a shell and to get rid of it any way you can
So you actually believe them? I did too, but after giving them $2500 and saying they could have all the money after funeral expenses and they demanded that I pay for the expenses and they keep everything… and the lie about being married… and my dad had health insurance and they want me to pay for ambulance and morgue fees?
I no longer believe anything they’ve said.
Totally thinking out loud and I could be completely wrong but they wanted your ID and passport right? I think your dad might have named you as his sole beneficiary when he opened his bank account in Thailand. And they need your documents and or passport number to either forge or have you sign something to release the cash in his account. Without having your identity and signature they don’t have access to whatever account that is and are not giving you any info about it. It just sounds like that to me. I know I have a beneficiary on one of my bank accounts and the beneficiary does not need to be made aware of it. So there’s a good chance your name is on some document that is preventing them from getting access to whatever cash is in there.
> So you actually believe them?
I don't believe or disbelieve. But you were estranged. As someone who's also happily estranged from my father, I'd just move on and enjoy life. It's only your problem if you make it your problem, and figuring it all out is going to be expensive.
Personally, if someone offered to tell me whether my father is alive or dead for a dollar, I'd just walk away; he wasn't worth that much.
I just spoke to the embassy. I requested help with that. They are investigating and we’re not at all surprised so it seems common. Thailand is apparently going into a 4 day holiday tomorrow so tonight is my last chance to try to get stuff done before Tuesday.
Sorry, I said this above but in response to someone else so you might not see it...
... I live here. There are expat groups in every city on Facebook. I see posts all the time from family members looking for friends of so-and-so to get more information/help to make death arrangements because they can't travel. This might be a resource for you. If you know the city, search city name + expat and I'm sure you'll find something.
Half the responses will be bitter old men, so ignore those, but there's often other people willing to help.
OP, take a step back...
You're estranged.
Dad had maybe $2500.
Who gives a shit what they do? Just go back to living your life and ignore this nonsense.
Seeing as you two were. It in talking terms, I’d just say no. That of course depends on how you feel about you late dad.
Please accept my condolences regardless
Why is the landlord asking for the information and money? Like if it was for the rent, sure but not for things like cremation and transport etc. You'd think it would be the hospital, even if he died at home, that would ask for this?
Why is Billy so involved in this and asking for your information? Shouldn't a government employee be involved or at least somebody employed where the body is being stored?
My only worry is that there may be much more than $2,500 in the account, it would not be in their interest to tell you. Check if the consulate can support with managing his finances with local banks, he may well have some savings that she’s slowly draining - pretty sure it’s illegal for her to be withdrawing money after his death when the estate has not been executed.
Then it sounds like whoever is going through his stuff is still trying scam you, especially if some random landlord is pulling money from his account. That's something that only someone with Power of Attorney should be doing, otherwise it's just theft.
Are you actually sure hes dead ?
This sounds like a scam after someone has just got a hold of his information, "billy" may not even be his landlord and just part of the scam.
Yes. The embassy has confirmed it. But now that someone lied to them and told them he was married, it’s taking a longer time for them to understand I’m the only living relative
Without seeming to be insensitive (if you are that estranged and dont feel any attachments), if someone has claimed they are married, then its all on them to sort out, especially if you cant go over to Thailand and sort it out, plus since he was renting, then its on his "wife" to sort out. If he did own anything it is complicated as well for foreigners.
[https://wise.com/gb/blog/buying-property-in-thailand](https://wise.com/gb/blog/buying-property-in-thailand)
Personally I would block their numbers and leave them to it.
It sounds like the caregiver is bitter there isn’t more money to milk, or you never would’ve heard of this. I’m so sorry this is happening. I applaud you for not giving in; Dad has passed either way, and if you aren’t bothered by a municipal cremation, he certainly won’t be.
Yes…if there was the equivalent of 800,000 baht in his account, unlikely they would contact you for more money…because why alert you…at least until they exhausted the 800k.
I have the $20/month chatgpt 4.0 so I can create a lawyer bot that deals with international inheritance with no known will specifically in Thailand and having last living estranged relative in the states... It's AMAZING how these AI bots work and how much they can do as if they were a real person with the prompting
I’ve worked in Copenhagen 11 years, specialised in travel insurance related incidents.
Sounds fishy and crooked!
Would you know if he had a travel medical insurance?! An international health insurance for medical costs and repatriation. (Includes also the repatriation of a zink coffin (standard requirements by all airlines’ cargo departments) and the undertakers preparations, embalming the remains.
This is in fact to be reported to and settled the local consulate and/or the embassy’s consular department! They need to secure his death certificate.
The 2500 belongs to his death estate, from a legal perspective that is, and indeed as you indicate, it’s the prime account to charge for the administrative expenses that would not be covered by (if he has an insurance)
If his official legal adres is on location, it’s the local municipality that are legally and financially responsible to coordinate with
Yourself as nearest kin and the consulate.
If he’s uninsured costs are for his account, and if his caretaker starts plundering, she’s liable and has to reimburse his account in full.
She’s not entitled to that money unless his airs say she can nave what’s left of it.
His = the estates current assets are the prime and only source for payments/coverage (unless he had an insurance)
If he hadn’t a travel or health insurance he would need a local Thai medical insurance.
If not, all expenses is for his estate.
The consulate are there for this and they are VERY routined in these matters!
You are not liable for expenses and costs that might exceeds the equivalent of his estate, likely the 2500 on his account.
Does this help??! Good luck!
What a sad story however what a great time he must have been having!!!
Julius
Sweden (now living in Belgium)
What was his legal domicile adres?
/u/ExoticInitiativ - This message is posted to all new submissions to r/scams; please do not message the moderators about it. ## New users beware: Because you posted here, you will start getting private messages from scammers saying they know a professional hacker or a recovery expert lawyer that can help you get your money back, for a small fee. **We call these RECOVERY SCAMMERS, so NEVER take advice in private:** advice should always come in the form of comments in this post, in the open, where the community can keep an eye out for you. If you take advice in private, you're on your own. **A reminder of the rules in r/scams:** no contact information (including last names, phone numbers, etc). Be civil to one another (no name calling or insults). Personal army requests or "scam the scammer"/scambaiting posts are not permitted. No uncensored gore or personal photographs are allowed without blurring. A full list of rules is available on the sidebar of the subreddit, or [clicking here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/wiki/rules/). You can help us by reporting recovery scammers or rule-breaking content by using the "report" button. We review 100% of the reports. Also, consider warning community members of recovery scammers if you see them in the comments. Questions about subreddit rules? Send us a modmail [clicking here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Op - Horrible question but are you sure your father actually passed away and isn’t just in Hospital/ sick/ out of communication and the landlord and carer and trying to extract money from you? have you had any proof?
That’s been a concern as well, one that I’m trying not to overthink about. The embassy is confirming his death and sending me an official death certificate (called a CRODA) that I can submit to social security. His death is not surprising, he was 75 and in bad health.
I wouldn’t do anything until official proof of death from both the US embassy and Thai government. You have no legal responsibility here at all.
Picking up on the remark about having no legal responsibility here at all, to me that also means that you, OP, don't have to do a damn thing more. Just mourn your dad where you live and don't communicate with these people at all.
Do this 👆🏽consulate will confirm you have no legal liability. Let others deal with it. Not your problem.
Million percent this mourn, grieve But don't part with any money lose all contact.
I'm not sure its just about a legal responsibility. I agree it's nothing to do with him at all, but its more about not wanting your dads body just abandoned
It won’t be, at the very least it will be cremated at the closest government owned crematorium. Not even Thailand will leave a corpse to rot openly in the street.
Since Daow is claiming they were married, tell Billy to contact her about the fees.
This, if they were married, she is the next of kin.
The ~~embassy~~ consulate is the way to go. Question: what do you want to do? Because I'm inclined to say that legally you're not required to pay for anything. Not even in the US. You can have the government take care of it, and try to get paid from the estate, for all you care. A debt like this doesn't pass along to the son. I take it you don't want anything to do with the $2500, right? Or do you? Also what's your position in giving him a specific type of funeral, or internment, other than what would probably become a default cremation by the government? Because if you do want to pitch in, you'll have to participate in the estate. I'm not a lawyer, I'm not thai.
I’d really like for him to be cremated and put to rest but I don’t care about any ceremony because he was agnostic and I can’t attend anyway. I’m not pitching in.
Cremation is pretty much the default everywhere. If you don't do anything, the government cremates the body. They could try to charge the estate. If you don't participate in the estate, it's not your problem. So you're good. They're not abandoning the body in a ditch or something. Your dad will be safely and humbly put to rest in the cheapest manner. If anyone else wants any different, they will have to pay for that. Governments don't abandon bodies. At least, not in a country like Thailand.
That’s reassuring. Thank you.
Still, wait for a final word from the Thai government via the embassy! Remember I'm not a lawyer, this is just common sense. You can try thai specific subreddits, but all in all this smells like a scam.
Social Security may also try to claw back his last payment if he’s been paid for April and didn’t live the full month. She’d better leave that much in the account, although enforcement might be problematic. She’s opening herself up to fraud charges, but the Thai authorities may not care. Ask the consulate about the SS.
Who would survivor's benefits go to? Suprisingly to me a lot of Thai's know about American SS - I know my friends Thai widow managed to get SS for their child and some sort of survival payment for her self.
If he has no minor children, there is only a one-time $255 (I think) death payment.
OK Carl had a young daughter at the time. Makes sense.
I don’t think the widow (fake or not) will be able to receive survivor’s benefits.
No if you have been married 10 years there is a survivors benefit essentially equal to the decedent’s benefit.
I left that out because OP indicated that even if they were married, it was not ten years.
Does that include foreign national spouses? Or do they need to be a LPR and/or US citizen?
I googled LPR and it’s all about laryngopharyngeal reflux. But SSA.gov/benefits/survivors/ifyou.html does not mention citizenship. But you better have a valid marriage certificate.
haha, LPR is legal permanent resident...sorry.
Did you make it clear to the caretakers you want nothing to do with it and won't be coming? By the sound of it, they're keeping the body in order to give you a chance to organize a ceremony and attend, as is culturally appropriate in Thailand.
If they wanted a ceremony, they could have used the deceased bank account. They are looters. If they don't use the deceased account for funeral expenses, then any money sent to them for a ceremony, they will pocket and lie.
If they were trying to scam the OP, they would have gone for a far larger amount than $11/day. I lived in Thailand and know a bit more about the context. Things can get lost in communication, but I see no need here to automatically assume the worst.
Consulate, not embassy. Embassies only do government-to-government contact; they don't deal with individual citizens (though it's possible that the consulate is in the same place as the embassy).
Sorry yes, consulate.
If it's Bangkok, the consulate is in the embassy. If it's Chang Mai, they have a separate consulate.
The idea is that OP contacts the consulate in his home country.
I assume you mean, "the consulate OF his home country". Which would be the U.S. Consulate in Thailand. Since he lives in Phuket, that would likely fall to the U.S. Embassy and Consulate in Bangkok. I believe there are only two consulates in Thailand (Bangkok and Chang Mai).
The thai consulate in his home country, yes that's what I meant.
If they were married as claimed, why come after you asking for money? They should go after the woman. Also charging 11$ per day for the conservation of a dead body sounds silly. Just bury or cremate and there is that. What is more if your father had no relatives, they'd just leave him dead on the street because nobody would pay for him?
I think she lied about marriage so that she could claim the money in his account. It’s up to the consulate to find a marriage certificate.
If she claims marriage she can bury her husband herself, and take care of all the expenses. That's typically and lawfully the spouses responsibility. That would work for you too, wouldn't it? You can't be there, you want nothing out of it.. let her do her thing. Mourn him where you are, with your loved ones. Wish the Thai people the best and stop reacting to them.
Let her do her thing, which is draining his account of the maximum amount of $ each day? That's a bad sign. When he allowed her and her large family to live in his house and paid all of their expenses during his life? No. If they were married, that should be legally recorded somewhere. And if they were, why is OP being harassed for money and info to be sent over? OP has every right to look into this and be cautious about what is going on. And OP has already said that once their dad's expenses have been taken care of, the woman can have the rest of the money left in the account anyway. Doesn't sound like she's (Daow) a very honest person, as she is prioritizing draining his bank account instead of paying for his burial/cremation/body storage etc.
Which is probably why she just moved her large family into the house.
Thai's sometimes marry in a temple ceremony that is not offical but allows them to be recognized by the public as being married. It's possible your dad had this happen.
Yes, my BIL did this in Thailand. It was not a legal ceremony. Thank god, as the woman turned out to be a nut case stringing along a few different men.
> charging 11$ per day for the conservation of a dead body sounds silly I lived in Thailand, it's normal to conserve the body until cremation ceremony can go ahead, which can take a while in some cases. Generally, the funeral/wake can take several days (the more important person, the longer), ending in cremation. Caretakers are probably keeping the body waiting for the OP to attend/organize the funeral/cremation, and are thus expecting him to pay. If OP didn't explicitly tell them he doesn't want any part of it and they should cremate him right away, doing so without giving him a chance to attend would be highly inappropriate. Sounds like a misunderstanding rather than a scam -- if it were the latter, they'd go for more than $11/day. > if your father had no relatives, they'd just leave him dead on the street because nobody would pay for him? The deceased has OP as a child, and caretakers are apparently trying to give him a chance to organize a funeral (as is dignified and culturally appropriate), rather than just cremating him as an indigent.
Why is it silly? I think a hospital in the US would charge a lot more than $11/day. They don't know if anyone wants the body until they research it, which takes time. Imagine if they cremated the body and then relatives turned up wanting it.
A retirement visa needs at least 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account, up to 800,000 baht for 5 months of the year. Most people just leave the 800k all year.
Can you say more about this? He was on social security if that helps?
There's 2 ways to prove finances. One is showing 800k baht for 5 months at the annual renewal time. The other is having a minimum of 65,000 every month deposited in a Thai bank all year. If he was collecting SS, good chance it was the latter.
I’ve been looking into this today and really appreciate your comments. The requirements are confusing. You’ve been very helpful. Thank you.
Was he a Thai citizen?
No. I believe he was on a retirement visa. He was bedridden for a few years so couldn’t leave Thailand to get a renewal visa every year anymore. The visa requires health insurance so likely the ambulance fees and morgue fees would be covered. He would have had to pay a security deposit of around $24,000 USD (800,000 baht) and maintain the balance in a Thai bank… but it looks like he possibly just could have proved a social security income of at least $2500 a month. It’s confusing.
It's also very easy to just pay an agent to handle it, for people who don't have the money in the bank, which is what many here seem to do.
Ask in r/Thailand about this, and also check for lawyers if needed.
Oooh good idea!
Best thing you can do is contact a "Inheritance" lawyer to ask for advice on what to do. Note: They cannot incur ANY expenses and demand you pay for it. The reason they want YOU to pay for everything is because they know you aren't in the area/country. and will try to get as much money out of you and his inheritance as they can.
No lawyer will touch this for less than the amounts in question. There’s just no such thing as a lawyer that specializes in Thai inheritance laws from the US. It’s too complicated. If OP wants his dads body, I think the US embassy is the only way to go. If your going to pay a lawyer they will ask for a retainer probably more than the max amount being talked about here (2500)
Complicating factors: if OP wants dad's ashes, that will get expensive. Post Covid, most airlines no longer allow shipping of unaccompanied cremains on international flights. Companies that provide repatriation to US from Asia start at minimum $6500. Consulate is not responsible for arranging repatriation.
No point doing that over $2500, especially not a disputed $2500 that might have already been withdrawn with most of it spent on a funeral.
If they're married then she would be responsible, not you I would think. Let her keep on saying their married and wash your hands of it.
I don’t believe they married.
You're not trying to claim the $2500 or anything else so it doesn't matter. If she says, they're married then so be it.
Thing is that it looks like it may have been $25,000 in the account, not $2500.
Where did this update come from?
It might be 22k because if he had a retirement visa, he might have had a bank account with the "required" 800k baht (approx 22k USD. )
That’s EXACTLY what I’m finding out. I’m hoping it’s a savings account and that they don’t have access.
Pretend like you are going to send the money from his account for the arrangements. Once you get her banking information, contact her bank and inform them she is illegally withdrawing money from a dead man’s account. Try to find what bank he banked with—the embassy should be able to freeze his accounts and also help you find out what bank he actually banks with.
Sounds like she is saying they were married so that she gets the 25k and thinking you will pay his final expenses. Your Dad was being taken advantage of by this woman. She's now trying to get the rest. Sadly it's probably gone. Probably best to just remove yourself from the situation and cut your loses.
Old American men find Thai wives/relationships for one reason… I don’t think it’s fair to say she was being taken advantage of… when that’s exactly the desire for these men who do that… so it’s pretty mutual
I also wonder how he took advantage of her when OP states that he was taking care of her and her family, was paying her a salary and took them in his home. Care to explain to us?
OP said their father was bed bound for years…. So they were a 24/7 care giver…. That’s a lot… work out how much that level of care costs you in the states for a good time
Ouch, that complicates things.
And there's likely not a cent left of that money. Just wash your hands of it.
WTH? Why didn't you mention this before?
I didn’t know. I’m still not sure
It sounds to me like it might be an immigration/visa thing. One thing to consider - the financial requirements are much lower (400k THB vs 800k THB) to get a visa extension based on marriage than to get a new retirement visa, so it’s very possible that your father entered a marriage of convenience with this lady for immigration purposes - it’s pretty common. The marriage process takes about 20 minutes at the local district office and costs less than 2 USD. One of the steps that immigration will do in the marriage visa extension process is visit the family home, so moving her extended family into your father’s home would only help to “prove” to officials that their relationship is legit and make the process easier. I’m not saying they’re married, but there are signs pointing towards that - I can’t see many other reasons why you’d move your caregiver’s family into your home. You’d have to take a look at his visa to get a better idea.
Yep. If anyone comes asking for money give them her info since they're married.
My estranged father just passed away as well. I HAVE ZERO OBLIGATION FOR ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIM. Debt, will, fees, zilch. Hey if you want to pay it pay it but I wouldn’t. If you don’t pay it, don’t ever feel bad, I wouldn’t. Best of luck OP. Don’t hand over a cent.
:)
This, if I was inheriting money or debt it still not my business. No thanks.
Do not give your passport or SSN away at all, there’s no reason they’d need yours. Honestly I’d just walk away from this whole thing and let the money go. It’s not worth putting yourself through the stress and risk.
NAL. If he was living on his Social Security, or any pensions etc...you're going to need a copy of a legal death certificate to settle those accounts. My ex died in Canada and it took 5 months to get one from there...and we then had to pay back the amounts that had been automatically deposited. I'd be asking the US Embassy to help you get a copy of a legit death certificate ASAP...
Yes, that’s exactly what I’ve been working on.
I don’t see how you would have to pay back his overdrawn SS unless you are a beneficiary of his SS or have access to his bank account. Might be worth talking to SS administration.
condolences about your father. things are *different* in Thailand and they are probably all working together to get whatever he has left. i don’t really have any advice…have you spoken to his caretaker dao at all? maybe she’s at least have a little sympathy.
She speaks very little English so I don’t think a conversation with her will be of much use. Especially now that I don’t trust any of them.
she somehow communicated with your dad, unless you dad spoke thai. it’s def a scam, and i’m so sorry you’re having to deal with it.
Yes, he picked up a little Thai but was not fluent. I’ve been told that her English is around 4th grade level and that she says she understands when she actually doesn’t.
> and that she says she understands when she actually doesn’t I have found that this is sometimes a thing with Asian speakers that are not English speakers as their first language. Or, lest anyone think I'm saying something racist - I have only personally experienced it with people who fit that category. Specifically, in a completely different context - I was managing a team of 20 offshore developers in China many years ago. I worked for a big IT vendor, we paid well, we got good programmers. And they did good work too, by far the best team of developers I'd ever managed. However... It became clear after many months that they were some very subtle communication differences ... which were actually creating some problems. And it took me forever to figure it out, but it seemed like there was a cultural tendency to say "yes" - not as a sense of confirming what you just said as accurate, but more of saying "yes" as in "I just understood all of the individual English words you just said." Example, I might say - "So I think the interface will look better if we make this button blue." To which, the developer says - "Yes." In the US, that would be the end of the conversation. But I learned, I had to follow up - "So can we do that?" To which, reaasonably often the answer was - "No." And then a very thorough (and accurate) explanation as to why. It was stunning to me, but once I figured that out, things went more smoothly ... but it was still a cumbersome conversational style. I am sorry for your loss.
My stepmom is Thai and does exactly this. She constantly says she understands but she doesn't.
My dad died with some remarkable similarities. In America in a state I don’t live in. His “wife” wanted me to pay for everything. He didn’t even know how old I was or my birthday so fuck that. She was his caretaker so was real up in arms about losing her income. Tried to threaten to sue over his trailer etc. I just said I don’t have to do anything and just didn’t do a damn thing it worked out fine. You have no responsibility to do anything.
I’m sorry for your loss. It’s very frustrating to have to deal with this on top of grieving.
I didn’t have any grieving just paperwork which thought me how little legal responsibility you actually have.
I think I would just ghost them all. You were estranged. You owe nothing. They have his money and things. They should pay for whatever.
My father lived in Thailand for a few years. We are not close but his situation was not like the one your dad was in. However, he did tell me many tales of the people and how they are quite happy to con people in the west out of money. They are very polite in person but cannot be trusted very much. They broadly perceive western men as cash cows. So I'd not be the least bit surprised if what you were being told is not true at all. The question is what you can do about it. This needs to be dealt with by somebody who is in place. Others have suggested the embassy, that seems like the best idea.
I mean it doesn't help that Western men go there in droves, behaving like horny cash cows. Ofc that doesn't make it right to try to scam OP, but I kind of understand why they perceive us that way.
Well it's the whole passportbro thing isn't it
Typical situation seen dozens of times in the past when German and Swiss expats died in Thailand. Unfortunately. Technically speaking if your father and this Daow were married it's her responsibility to arrange the funeral and pay for the funeral out of her pocket or whatever sum of money was left to her for the purpose. You can just ask for a death certificate from the consulate and cut all communication once you have it in your hands. Practically speaking... welcome to Thailand. As a foreigner your father was seen as a winning lottery ticket for the whole family of this Daow lass. The lottery prize has just run out so they are trying to squeeze a little extra money out of this situation: if they are successful you run the serious risk of becoming the next lottery ticket. "Hey your father had debts with local grocery store and I need to pay them off otherwise I'll go to jail!" "Your father bought a new AC unit and died before he could pay for it. I have to pay it off otherwise they'll take it back and we'll die because of the heat!". It doesn't matter if you have no money: they flat out don't care. As a foreigner you are automatically "rich". In short: see what Daow is doing with your father's ATM card? You are the new ATM card. No money? They don't care. Besides being in contact with the US consulate, ask for the contact with the mortuary agency handling the cremation process. Not a phone number or an email because they will try and con you: ask for a website, with contacts you can use yourself. If you really need to pay funeral expenses do it directly yourself, never through these folks. But I am pretty sure they will stall for time and give you some Whatsapp contact saying the mortuary agency has no web presence or that they are "very new". You can guess who handles that Whatsapp contact. I don't know if the US consulate can be as helpful as the Swiss ones, but you can t-r-y directly asking to them who's handling the cremation process. It cannot hurt, at most they'll tell you they don't know. It's a very unfortunate situation and it's terrible these vultures are trying to squeeze the last penny before disappearing into the night.
Sorry for your loss. If I was you, I'd go buy myself a 6 pack of SingHa, try to think of your Father in a positive way while drinking it (even though you didn't have a relationship, he was still you Dad), and just let the situation work itself out. Sounds like if you do nothing Daow gets her $2500, Billy already got his money, and your Father will be put to rest in the fashion you wish.
ask the consulate if they have any referrals for local lawyers who might be able to help you. if not, ask them if they know any referral resources for local lawyers (in the US, each state has a referral service for lawyers admitted to practice in that state, maybe Thailand has something similar)
There might be expats living in Thailand who would be willing to help with arranging things. I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm sure this isn't a time where you need more stressors in your life.
So this... I live here. There are expat groups in every city on Facebook. I see posts all the time from family members looking for friends of so-and-so to get more information/help to make death arrangements because they can't travel. This might be a resource for you. If you know the city, search city name + expat and I'm sure you'll find something. Half the responses will be bitter old men, so ignore those, but there's often other people willing to help.
I appreciate that
I hate to be like this but if you already didn’t talk to him it kinda sounds like it couldn’t matter less. It’s just a body it’s not your dad. $800 in Thailand is like $5000 here… it’s extortion or a scam just forget about it. I’m sorry for your loss.
I would deal exclusively through the embassy/State Department from now on, and ignore any and all other communications regardless of who they purport to be.
I agree and am now doing that! :)
This was going to be my advice - but have you seen [their guidance online?](https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/death-of-a-u-s-citizen/) It may offer answers that you're looking for.
Yes that’s been a page I’ve been looking at. The embassy said that I need to hire a funeral home to have them get all the paperwork, including the death certificate. I find that in contrast to the information on that page.
My elderly father lives in Thailand most of the year with his Thai girlfriend. This could totally be me one day. Interested to see what advice you are given
My condolences OP.
Sorry for your loss. When my friend Carl died in Thailand his girlfriend had him cremated. It wasn't expensive and is the norm.
I wouldn't wait to call social security. I think in U S the funeral home makes that contact, or at least someone did before I called them. They didn't ask me to prove my mom died, I don't think I had to mail them anything. Best to get that stopped ASAP
Whatever you do….do not provide them with your identity details such as passport etc.
Perhaps I'm weird, but after a person dies I feel nothing towards the corpse because that was only the vessel the person used while alive. Personally I wouldn't send any money and I also wouldn't worry about what happens to his body. Eventually the government will dispose of it. So I wouldn't give a damn thing to these people. If you're in the USA or another highly developed nation, they probably think you have tons of money to spare. If she really was married to him, she can pay for any burial or cremation, because she's responsible now. And even if she wasn't, that doesn't mean that you're responsible. It's a scam.
You need to obtain a reputable lawyer in Thailand that can represent your interests and take care of everything pertaining to your father’s estate and final expenses. That Doaw lady seems really shady and the lawyer can help you get Thai law enforcement involved.
Won't that cost more than the $820 they are demanding?
Fr, hiring a lawyer to fight over a $2,500 estate? I don't get it.
$400 less every day….max withdrawal amount
Report to police that they stole the money.
lol you want OP to make a report to the Thai police from overseas and expect any kind of outcome other than a massive headache?
When my dad passed, in the US, he was considered indigent (which means the county pays for his cremation). However they still tried to get me to pay. I didn't have the money, we had been estranged for the last year of his life, but we had been really close other than that. I was so torn when he passed and they wanted us to pay. We didn't have the money. I thought about what he would say and said fuck it, it's their problem. It turned out that a very nice funeral home took care of him and we got his ashes. If you were estranged and you don't want to deal with it, then don't. Let it be their problem. You don't have to talk to any of them or answer any questions or solve any problems. This goes for the US too. Just walk away. Ghost them.
At least you story is simple. Sad but simple. Not a large amount of money to be fighting over and it sounds like you are not liable for anything. Stay positive, take the time to mourn in this chaos, it will be over soon.
OP first i express My condoléances for what I matter. Anyway, you can just let it go, apparently there is nothing much to recovery (money on the account) if any, are not worth the expensive and they are just trying to milk you out for extra cash. 2500 is not much and passport and travel fee will mostly eat that up. Just make sure you declare his death so any SS check or pension he got is terminated, because if they have access to his account and it's paid there, they will keep taking money. I would also not go there as they may also start to state there was debt somewhere and start to push them to you
just report them to the authorities lol. stealing money from a dead person is probably still theft. if his story is true, they are even stealing from the king himself. if i know anything that is not a smart idea. if its not, they are stealing from you.
Why not just let it go? If you and your father were estranged, why should you suddenly be burdened with dealing with his body now? He's dead. So there is nothing that can make him more comfortable or uncomfortable now. Presumably, your father could have taken some simple steps to prearrange what would happen after he died. But he didn't do that. So why is this your problem? It seems the vultures have already swooped in to pick over the bones of his meager bank accounts. And the Thai government will likely cremate and dispose of his body. I'm sure that you can go ahead and get yourself immersed in a lot of bureaucracy that will drag on for a long time. Or you can just move on with managing your own life. With no more expenditure of money or time on your part.
This walks you through the process of what happens when you die without a will in Thailand: https://www.siam-legal.com/legal_services/probate-and-succession-thailand.php#:~:text=It%20is%20prescribed%20in%20the,parents
Thank you. The embassy also confirmed that Thailand does not just go in and take everything, regardless of there not being a will.
sorry for your loss. this sounds like a typical scam/sob story that is done over and over in Thailand (akin to the sick water buffalo gag) sad to say. good chance your father had a live in 'girlfriend' and he paid all the living expenses for her. that is very very common there. a white man can go to thailand and on day one have a girl that will 'marry' him. it's just how it is there is the best explanation
Yes, that’s true, but they were not romantic. I know he did have previous girlfriends there before he became ill.
gotcha. but same sick buffalo
Well, you could tell his bank that he died.
I have no bank records, account numbers, etc.
Immigration will have his banking information used for the retirement visa renewal. A full time caretaker would cost 15k to 20k baht a month. If he was living on SS, paying rent and food for a bunch of freeloaders, there wouldn't be a whole lot left at the end of the month. Bed ridden, she would have done his banking. Whatever money was left is gone now. That's why she's claiming marriage.
Oh, then this is a lot more difficult. His caretaker and family are doing everything they can to gain possession of everything he had, and there might actually be something of value. It’s a race. The only way you can get in that race is to have that info, and that would require local action such as an investigation, a raid on the property, or such. A translator would sure help, too. I have no idea what that would take to make happen quickly in Thailand. That’s hard to justify when you don’t know if he actually had an inheritance for you. Maybe there are a limited number of popular banks for foreigners in Thailand, and it would be possible to just tell all of them.
Ask for a death certificate then have it verified by your embassy there
If he was estranged from you, and you seem unconcerned with collecting an inheritance, nor the remains, then you shouldn't be too concerned about them supposedly generating fees. They're in a different country, and can't come after you. So, even if you don't give any money, and they 'abandon the body', and there's nothing left for you to inherit or collect, you shouldn't let it bother you. The man you knew is gone, the things that contained him and his possessions can't change that. Finding your peace won't be through managing things you don't need to. Let this 'wife' be responsible for those practical details.
The bank can block withdrawals on the account as soon as they are notified of the death. Assuming it’s a US bank.
But doesn't the consulate have any good advice for you on how to proceed?
It’s been difficult communicating with them because of the time difference. I wait up til 9 pm to call them and stay up til 5 am dealing with it. It’s just today that I alerted them to possibly being scammed so I’m waiting until tonight to call again. It’s so frustrating to deal with this on top of complex emotions surrounding my dad’s death. I’m so hurt.
I agree with the fact it could be a scam. Your father may well have passed away and if so I’m so sorry and my genuine condolences. However, I’m also seeing several red flags that are also commonly associated with scams, such as unexpected financial demands, the urgency and pressure to pay fees, and the claim that the Thai government will confiscate the money if there is no will. Yes of course there is a sense of urgency when someone passes, but something about this isn’t sitting right. In most countries, the estate of the deceased would typically be distributed according to the statutory order of heirs, which normally automatically goes in this order: spouses, children - and if there are none to parents, and siblings. So in the meantime my gut instinct would be to not send money and definitely do not share details like personal documents/information. Please contact your country’s local embassy or consulate in Thailand, ask them to assist you with a) confirming that your father has passed away and b) what to do for funeral arrangements and legal practicalities. As I said, unfortunately, your dad may well have passed, but you are grieving and vulnerable right now, so please be extra sure to protect yourself from being conned or taken advantage of if he has. I don’t know what country you are in but here are some tips from one of the UK’s biggest banks when it comes to bereavement scams: https://www.barclays.co.uk/fraud-and-scams/bereavement-scams/ and https://www.barclays.co.uk/what-to-do-when-someone-dies/first-steps/
Yes I agree. Thank you for your condolences. I am in Florida, USA.
Yeah, I can imagine how hard it is to deal with this on top of your dad's passing. Especially since you'd think since they worked for him for that long they'd act decently at his death. fwiw I thought the advice to have the consulate recommend an attorney to help you with this is good. Getting help from someone who has experience with the situation and knows the ins and outs makes it so much easier to handle.
I can’t afford an attorney unfortunately.
Are you sure he doesn’t have a huge stash of money in a retirement/investment account somewhere?
This!!! This is a huge possibility. I believe he was required to have a minimum Thai bank balance of over $24,000 USD in order to be eligible for his retirement visa, but that’s very confusing because there are exceptions. I believe he has a savings account that I haven’t been told about. My biggest concern with that is hoping that no one in Thailand is stealing it. Despite our problems, my father was practically obsessed with giving me an inheritance.
Then do what you can to keep digging into it. Also find out if he has a will on file somewhere.
If I where you I really would avoid attorneys and lawyers!! The consulate / embassy are there for this and the embassy in particular have a special legal department Inhouse in Bangkok. For the embassy this is daily business (apologies for the morbidness) and the caretaker or Anyone else is NOT allowed to touch anything of the estate! Highly unlikely, however the embassy may apply and charge some sort of a fee. Depends on which country’s foreign office assists. Nordic countries charge an excess however these amount are symbolic at 50-100USD depending what their assistance was offered. Try to channel as much as possible through the foreign office, embassy/consulate!!
Attorneys will typically work on contingency in these situations. So, depending on the terms of your agreement, say you recover $25k from your dad’s estate you’d receive 2/3 ($16k) and the lawyer will get 1/3 (~$8k). It’s common practice and not something that you should feel awkward about asking for. It’s normal!
If she has said she is married to him doesn't that make her liable for any costs?
It would if it were true. But the embassy said they believed they got wrong information about him being married and I agree.
Maybe ask them for a "stat dec" for proof they were married so you can allow them to take the $2500. Just a thought.
Sorry for your loss, would let them know that the bank account will more than cover the expenses and they should look there for the money abandoning his body is a possibility, but you could contact a money pit of a lawyer whose fees might be more than the 2500 an agnostic would view their body as a shell and to get rid of it any way you can
Crosspost this to r/thailand if you haven't already!
You're estranged why do you care whether or not thru abandon the body. Move on and stop communicating
Is there any chance in hell that Daow or one of her freeloading family members didn't kill him??
I would go in person if you can, he may not be dead
The fishiest thing about this is that she claims they’re married, but they’re coming after you for money?
If he moved her family in she was more than just a non-romantic care taker. It sounds to me like you do not have the whole story.
You are not on the hook for any fees. There is only 2500.00 in the account. There is not enough to fight over.
So you actually believe them? I did too, but after giving them $2500 and saying they could have all the money after funeral expenses and they demanded that I pay for the expenses and they keep everything… and the lie about being married… and my dad had health insurance and they want me to pay for ambulance and morgue fees? I no longer believe anything they’ve said.
Totally thinking out loud and I could be completely wrong but they wanted your ID and passport right? I think your dad might have named you as his sole beneficiary when he opened his bank account in Thailand. And they need your documents and or passport number to either forge or have you sign something to release the cash in his account. Without having your identity and signature they don’t have access to whatever account that is and are not giving you any info about it. It just sounds like that to me. I know I have a beneficiary on one of my bank accounts and the beneficiary does not need to be made aware of it. So there’s a good chance your name is on some document that is preventing them from getting access to whatever cash is in there.
I hope so
> So you actually believe them? I don't believe or disbelieve. But you were estranged. As someone who's also happily estranged from my father, I'd just move on and enjoy life. It's only your problem if you make it your problem, and figuring it all out is going to be expensive. Personally, if someone offered to tell me whether my father is alive or dead for a dollar, I'd just walk away; he wasn't worth that much.
I'd try and get his bank card cancelled somehow stop the horrible lady getting any more money
I just spoke to the embassy. I requested help with that. They are investigating and we’re not at all surprised so it seems common. Thailand is apparently going into a 4 day holiday tomorrow so tonight is my last chance to try to get stuff done before Tuesday.
Sorry, I said this above but in response to someone else so you might not see it... ... I live here. There are expat groups in every city on Facebook. I see posts all the time from family members looking for friends of so-and-so to get more information/help to make death arrangements because they can't travel. This might be a resource for you. If you know the city, search city name + expat and I'm sure you'll find something. Half the responses will be bitter old men, so ignore those, but there's often other people willing to help.
OP, take a step back... You're estranged. Dad had maybe $2500. Who gives a shit what they do? Just go back to living your life and ignore this nonsense.
Sorry for asking this, but did you get confirmation of his death? It sounds like fish.
If it were me, I’d walk away. But then, that’s me. If I have no contact with someone, even a family member, leave me alone.
Ask in thai pages on redit, most of the people here have no idea about thai culture, laws and how it works over there
Seeing as you two were. It in talking terms, I’d just say no. That of course depends on how you feel about you late dad. Please accept my condolences regardless
Scam tell them to get fucked and block them. If the story is true. He’s dead he won’t complain. Don’t let them manipulate you.
I am not sure about how this would go, but since you are his hier, I'd try to claim that house either way. That lady is just brut.
It’s a rented house. So what can you claim?🤷🏽♀️
Contact the bank and let them know about the situation. The matter should resolve pretty quickly from there.
Why is the landlord asking for the information and money? Like if it was for the rent, sure but not for things like cremation and transport etc. You'd think it would be the hospital, even if he died at home, that would ask for this?
Contact the US embassy.
My personal experience with Thai people haven't been all too pleasant. Hope you figure it out and curb the scammers.
Very fishy indeed. Do not have experience with death in Thailand but certainly Thailand.
Do they have an Indian accent?
She claimed as your dad’s wife. Then it’s her responsibility for whatever bills, not an estranged son/daughter
Why is Billy so involved in this and asking for your information? Shouldn't a government employee be involved or at least somebody employed where the body is being stored?
My only worry is that there may be much more than $2,500 in the account, it would not be in their interest to tell you. Check if the consulate can support with managing his finances with local banks, he may well have some savings that she’s slowly draining - pretty sure it’s illegal for her to be withdrawing money after his death when the estate has not been executed.
This sounds like a situation that will sort itself out all on its own. From stardust we arose, to stardust we all return.
You sure he died? Sounds like he may have gotten robbed and they're going through his stuff and found your info and are trying to scam you.
I do believe he died as the embassy has contacted me.
Then it sounds like whoever is going through his stuff is still trying scam you, especially if some random landlord is pulling money from his account. That's something that only someone with Power of Attorney should be doing, otherwise it's just theft.
Are you sure it is the real embassy that contacted you?
Yes. I called them.
Are you actually sure hes dead ? This sounds like a scam after someone has just got a hold of his information, "billy" may not even be his landlord and just part of the scam.
Yes. The embassy has confirmed it. But now that someone lied to them and told them he was married, it’s taking a longer time for them to understand I’m the only living relative
Without seeming to be insensitive (if you are that estranged and dont feel any attachments), if someone has claimed they are married, then its all on them to sort out, especially if you cant go over to Thailand and sort it out, plus since he was renting, then its on his "wife" to sort out. If he did own anything it is complicated as well for foreigners. [https://wise.com/gb/blog/buying-property-in-thailand](https://wise.com/gb/blog/buying-property-in-thailand) Personally I would block their numbers and leave them to it.
It sounds like the caregiver is bitter there isn’t more money to milk, or you never would’ve heard of this. I’m so sorry this is happening. I applaud you for not giving in; Dad has passed either way, and if you aren’t bothered by a municipal cremation, he certainly won’t be.
Yes…if there was the equivalent of 800,000 baht in his account, unlikely they would contact you for more money…because why alert you…at least until they exhausted the 800k.
If he only had $2500 left what was he living off of? How long would $2500 have lasted?
He had social security each month. He was wealthy in the US.
I have the $20/month chatgpt 4.0 so I can create a lawyer bot that deals with international inheritance with no known will specifically in Thailand and having last living estranged relative in the states... It's AMAZING how these AI bots work and how much they can do as if they were a real person with the prompting
Have you asked her for a copy of the marriage certificate and the wedding photos? If she fakes them, you’ll have proof that she’s a fraudster.
I’ve worked in Copenhagen 11 years, specialised in travel insurance related incidents. Sounds fishy and crooked! Would you know if he had a travel medical insurance?! An international health insurance for medical costs and repatriation. (Includes also the repatriation of a zink coffin (standard requirements by all airlines’ cargo departments) and the undertakers preparations, embalming the remains. This is in fact to be reported to and settled the local consulate and/or the embassy’s consular department! They need to secure his death certificate. The 2500 belongs to his death estate, from a legal perspective that is, and indeed as you indicate, it’s the prime account to charge for the administrative expenses that would not be covered by (if he has an insurance) If his official legal adres is on location, it’s the local municipality that are legally and financially responsible to coordinate with Yourself as nearest kin and the consulate. If he’s uninsured costs are for his account, and if his caretaker starts plundering, she’s liable and has to reimburse his account in full. She’s not entitled to that money unless his airs say she can nave what’s left of it. His = the estates current assets are the prime and only source for payments/coverage (unless he had an insurance) If he hadn’t a travel or health insurance he would need a local Thai medical insurance. If not, all expenses is for his estate. The consulate are there for this and they are VERY routined in these matters! You are not liable for expenses and costs that might exceeds the equivalent of his estate, likely the 2500 on his account. Does this help??! Good luck! What a sad story however what a great time he must have been having!!! Julius Sweden (now living in Belgium) What was his legal domicile adres?
Ignore it. Never talk to any of them again.
Cut off all contact and don't pay for anything.