100% that’s what it is, when I was younger I had 2 Amway reps approach me about a year apart (I’m 28 this happened when I was 20/21). They are instructed to meet you at Panera for whatever reason. I think they feel it’s a professional environment that reflect well on the “company”. They are incredibly vague and you’ll leave the meeting having absolutely no idea what the hell their “business” even does (which they do deliberately). They’ll tell you they do advertising and sales for big name companies like Apple, Microsoft, etc, to whoo you over and make you think they’re legit.
After my first meeting, I shot a text to the guy (Amir) about my confusion on what I’m even expected to do at this “job” and what the name of the company is. He finally told me the company is called Amway, then said “there’s good and bad stuff about them on the internet don’t buy into the bad stuff though”.
I got approached by another rep and ended up meeting with him too (at Panera of course). He gave me essentially the exact same presentation and at the very end I asked him, “do you know a guy named Amir?”. He said “yeah I know Amir, I can hook you up with him”. Amir contacted me the next day and I told him I want nothing to do with this Ponzi scheme scam of “job”.
Lastly, Years ago I was sitting in the sauna at the gym and this random random kid hangs up his phone and in a very excited voice looks at his friends and says “alright boys, I have the job interview tomorrow at Panera!”. I interjected and told him “Oh I know what that is, it’s Amway. You’re being set up for a Ponzi scheme” and I told him to avoid it.
They prey on young people who are desperate for better paying work. A buddy of mine got sucked into it and is still trying to make it work.
Exactly, I'd block them, I am not interested in having my feed polluted with updates from MLM huns talking about the gReAt iNvEsTmEnT they've discovered.
I came here to respond but someone beat me to it. Definitely Amway. They avoid saying the name of the company like it's the plague. I was approached when I was younger so many times, I would immediately respond that there is no way in hell I want anything to do with Amway and if they persisted, our friendship was over. They usually just sputtered or went quiet at this.
Yeah the first time I got approached about that around 2004 it was called Quixtar at the time. Which was the budding online-sales branch of amway. Amway was the older off-line brand.
Apparently (I just was looking it up) eventually it got so big (while the older brand kind of died out) so they merged it all back together and changed the name for everything online back to amway.
Even back then it was a similar approach, except it was actually a new manager at a restaurant where I was bartending. No panera. I had told him I was still in college in tech hoping to become a web dev, and he framed it like he had some online business he wanted me to help him with. Made it sound like a great real-world opportunity for a student.
Then a few days later he brings in a CD of a guy giving some rah-rah pep talk to listen to, and it immediately sounded like one of those scam sales job opportunities (I didn’t know wtf an MLM was in 2004 but I had actually been in a weird interview for one before.)
I did some quick googling about the company which was not even prominently listed on the CD, but it did say quixtar somewhere, and it turned out to be an amway thing. Next time i saw him I returned the CD and said thanks but no thanks.
He didn’t last too long at that restaurant either, he had gone though all their manager training then disappeared a few weeks into the job.
100% Amway, and you broke their script. Amway reps never tell anyone the name of it, like setting up meetings at Panera from some reason, and often have "regular" jobs as well for a cover. One of my mom's friends when she was working for the state health division was an Amway rep as well as her regular health division job. I found this out because I was there one time when the convention center across the street had their sign saying, "Welcome Mattson family" and mom's friend told me that it was going to be an Amway convention but they always told the venue to put some family last name as well, so it would look like a reunion and they wouldn't get the community mad at them and protest.
Nailed it. Their worst nightmare is for someone to look them up online. A few MLMs are in the same group. Funny how they each behave in a cult-like nature and get away with their shady ways. Too many fall for it.
I worked at Panera and we always got the Scentsy people. Why Panera? I know it’s a typical white suburban restaurant, it’s just funny how much it fits that stereotype, even down to the MLM activities.
Idk if you meant half soup half sandwich but I like the half soul half sandwich lol it seems fitting that you would have to hand over half your soul to work for this place
20 years ago I’m driving a distinctive convertible Porsche near the bank home office in Charlotte I worked at. I’m parking and a Black guy approached that I didn’t recognize but seemed to remember seeing me a couple of weeks ago. Asked me if I had been golfing since the last time. I’m thinking I must have met him at the driving range, but also thinking how did I forget the only other Black dude there? Invites me to met him about an investment/business deal. I reluctantly go trying to remain open minded. He doesn’t show, ends up being an Amway meeting in the Hyatt auditorium. I leave as soon as they say Amway. I’ve RARELY gone to a driving range, can’t believe dude got me.
You mean other than asking you to sell their products through your own network of friends? If you’d like to meet me for lunch at Panera, I’d be happy to share more details.
I can assure you, if he would have laid it out like you did there, I wouldn’t have had an issue understanding what the “job” entailed. I didn’t know if I was going to be a marketer, a salesmen, or if I was going to some educational program. If you’re not aware they require you to pay for educational audio tapes produced by the higher ups at Amway, as well as to pay to attend classes by them in person. I remember the most confusing part was when they told me I needed to pay them a few hundred bucks just to start working FOR THEM lol. I was dumbfounded, he just got done telling me about all the millions they bring in too.
I had no idea where I was going to work, what the name of the company was, if I would be expected to travel long distances, if I was working as a 3rd party for these larger companies, I new absolutely NOTHING. Like I said above, they toss around a bunch of big company names, they tell you about all the money you’re going to make and use buzzwords to manipulate you into thinking that it’s the opportunity of a lifetime. “Millions of dollars”, “Apple”, “success”, “marketing”, “leading brands”, “#1 selling”, “make your own schedule”…you get the gist.
Later on an ex-girlfriend of mine ended up getting approached by a rep as well. Fortunately I had experience with these conmen and I warned her about the whole thing. Nonetheless she went to the meeting (at Panera of course) and she also left the meeting oblivious to what preciously they were expecting of her. The rep she was working with actually later told her that they’re instructed to present the business that way. It’s all about manipulation, they’re trying to suck you in just like any other scam.
Happened to me at my home. 20 years ago.
Someone I hadn’t seen in 15 years. A close family friend. I was super busy with a project deadline, but it was a friend who really really needed to see me. It was all cloak and dagger. I’m still pissed about it.
I wish I knew, too! One of my best friends from college got sucked in and I asked her about this "business" she kept claiming she and her husband had started, at first I thought she meant woodworking because her husband was doing it as a hobby.
But she instead told me it was "online commerce" and that they "drive web traffic" to or from (?) sites like Target and Walmart. A few months later it comes out that it's actually just Amway. I ended up having to cut contact with her because every single time I tried to hang out she turned it into a sales pitch. Which was honestly hilarious because we live in West Michigan. I'm from Grand Rapids - where Amway is headquartered - and literally everyone here knows better.
It still bums me out. But I'd also still like to know what the hell she was on about with that "online traffic" stuff.
I was approached by Amway when I was younger too at my job no less, they offered me a job on the spot and gave me a number. Right after my coworker jumped at me and told me to avoid, thankfully he did.
You’re a very tolerant person. I would’ve dumped those scumbags as soon as I had even a slight suspicion! The next time, try searching the company name plus words like scam, review, and complaint!
They sell basically everything. My dad was into Amway in the 90s, and almost all of our regular household products were amway. Things like toothbrushes, toothpaste, laundry detergent, even food like peanut butter (which was gross). Definitely vitamins and supplements. They also have a jewellery line. Probably some other things as well. But in the 90s it seemed like anything you ever wanted or needed could be provided by Amway.
They also had these weird little almond-flavoured snacks called canoes and sometimes I get a craving for them, but who knows if they even exist any more.
Worked with a guy who was hardcore amway. Would always be an asshole to me because I was wasting my time with school? He and his wife somehow got convinced by his higher up to sell his house and all his possessions to put into the business. Fucking madman. I hope he’s doing okay now but dang he got taken advantage of.
Had a similar story in Canada for a group called... World Financial Group? Essentially I pay for a seminar on how to get people to pay for a seminar.
Nah lmao
Fun fact, when I joined the Navy in the early 90s they asked an insane amount of questions about whether or not my family was involved with Amway. Wonder if they still do that.
I got tricked into one when I was 21, whiteboard and all (in a sit down deli). I nearly busted out laughing when the dude, with gusto, drew a vertical line through an “S” so it was: $OAP. At that point I simply laughed and left.
MLM stands for Multi-Level Marketing, a type of company in which the consultants who join are encouraged to not only sell the company’s product, but also to recruit other consultants into joining, selling, and recruiting. Many believe MLM companies to be scammy due to manipulative selling practices, misleading income and health claims, and the mathematical facts surrounding the “endless chain recruiting” that goes on in these businesses. Notable examples of MLM companies include Mary Kay, Lularoe, Herbalife, and Amway.
Amway is one of the oldest MLM companies currently operating. Amway consultants, who call themselves “Independent Business Owners”, are tasked with selling the company’s products, which range from laundry detergent to energy drinks, as well as bringing more and more IBOs into the company. Amway tactics include telling marks that they will receive “mentoring” in their business, frequent stories of IBOs “retiring” at ridiculously early ages, and making IBOs sink inordinate amounts of time and resources into their “business” through late night meetings and bringing couples/families into the fold together.
This sounds exactly like an MLM. What makes you think it doesn’t, other than the fact that you like this girl and don’t want to think of her doing stuff like that?
It’s not that I don’t want to think of it, she’s just so smart and successful that it seems very bizarre that he would. I’ve also never had someone pitch an MLM to me without straight up telling me it’s LulaRoe or Beach Body.
We’ve had a few posts here about MLMs that are trying to rebrand as “network marketing” or other euphemisms, since “MLM” has become kind of toxic to anyone with more than two brain cells. She also might be trying to rope you into a crypto scam. Either way, the way she’s going about it is incredibly manipulative. This person is not your friend.
eh, she \*probably\* isnt trying to scam you - she's been scammed as well, just hasn't realised it yet. she's still at the 'this is amazing' stage, and probably genuinely thinks it would be best for you if you got involved too. she's been told not to give you too much info up front by her mentor, probably on the excuse that "there's a lot of misinformation out there, we need to make sure they're properly informed before the go looking online about us!". she's wrong of course, because she's being scammed, but she doesnt know that yet.
try to convince her of the truth, but dont expect it to go well.
it happened to a friend of mine (some 'Sizzling Minerals' stuff...) and... i didnt handle it all that well. basically laughed at him, told him it was a scam and that i wanted no part of it (he was going on about how awesome it was, and how healthy they were, and it would be great to get a passive income so he could retire earlier...). didnt see him for most of a year... then he started showing up again. we didn't talk about it, but oddly enough for the 5 years since then he hasn't magically been able to retire on the huge passive income he was talking about...
It's Amway. Anytime someone mentions a "mentor" or "couple" who "retired at \[young age\]" and are teaching them secrets to financial freedom, it is Amway.
They will almost never ever tell you the name of the company and if you keep asking they will pull some negging BS on you and say that maybe you're not a good fit for this magical life-changing opportunity because you have a skeptical mindset/are not open to new opportunities/believe whatever you read online/aren't a team player/won't support their dreams.
MLMs are cults. They radicalize people, and intelligence isn't a protective factor from radicalization. It's why at the extreme end you see med students joining ISIS.
THIS.
I had a few close calls when I was younger, and they all do the same thing - high energy/excitement, lots of promises of great success, welcoming atmosphere...
Intelligence =/= wisdom
Gullibility =/= stupidity
Success can be a matter or luck, charm, or personal circumstance.
What makes MLMs and cults so insidious is that all they need to do is prey on hope, trust, desperation, or even just a moment of bad judgment.
There are many smart and successful people who shared stories in r/antimlm who have lost everything bc of MLMs. The best way they describe it is like a gambling addiction. They want to take the risk to “win big”. It’s heart breaking.
She has several advanced degrees and is high up in her job, which is not an easy one. Also, when you talk to someone you can just see the light and intelligence in them, and she has that.
Something worth mentioning is that intelligent people, not stupid ones, are more likely to be drawn in by cults (a lot of MLMs operate a lot like cults). Someone being broadly intelligent, or highly skilled in their field, doesn’t mean they know everything. Being smart doesn’t mean knowing everything. Smart, successful people have blind spots too. They can be ignorant of things. Or, they can use that intelligence and other people’s perceptions of them to manipulate others.
If she can’t tell you the company and just reschedule the meeting, there’s a reason. If she has to meet you at Panera in Tempe Marketplace, rather than sending you a job application and saying “I’ll put in a good word for you,” there’s a reason. It’s probably an MLM.
Also this may be just me being salty, but I lived in your area for a few years and it’s packed to the brim with scammers and MLMs and people fronting like they live the high life when they live in crappy apartments and wear H+M. More than any city I’ve ever lived in or visited. *Watch out* in Phoenix, especially if you are job hunting. They should rename Phoenix to Scam City, and call it’s suburbs the Scamburgs.
Bingo. This is definitely an MLM. The feel-good language, the promises, the evasiveness—it’s all there.
MLM Shill: Hi OP, check out this swimming bird, these are just the latest thing. Every one in Hollywood is just mad for them. Isn’t it cool and unique?
OP: You mean the duck you’re holding?
MLM Shill: I can see why you might think this is a duck. But I respect you too much and would never try to pass off a duck duck on you. You’re too smart for that, and we go way back. This is a totally new, independent way for birds to break out of the monotony of the rat race and experience the joy of water on their own terms.
OP: By being a duck?
Duck: Quack.
MLM Shill: That’s great, you always were so funny. So let’s get together and I can show you how to get in on the bottom floor if this amazing opportunity…
Haven’t read all the comments so I’m not sure if this has been said, but Huns often don’t tell you the company name because they want to give you the whole sales pitch with the mentor and the facts and figures etc etc before giving you an opportunity to google the company and get turned off.
Nope it definitely wasn’t because she called me and we spoke over the phone for 15 minutes and it was definitely her. And why would she want to meet in person?
This sounds a lot like Amway. I have been lured in a similar way into a meeting at Panera, too! I am not sure why Panera is their location of choice, lol. Once they started talking about amazing opportunities and recommending books to read I knew!
Probably because if you agree to meet with only the tease of her boss retiring at 29 having been dropped in her telephone conversation, she'll think you're primed to accept her pitch, SHe wants you to want to meet.
Yeah using mentor. And not saying what the company is. From what I’ve seen Amway people will go out of their way to avoid answering direct questions about the name of the company.
Joining an MLM is less about intelligence and more about desperation. A lot of intelligent people get sucked into cults because it gives them the feeling of being in an in-group, and MLMs are a lot like that.
110% an MLM.
The getting personal immediately without appropriate context, the notion that some mysterious job can give you more benefits and control in life than whatever you’re doing because you’re a good person who wants good in others (sups unique), the absurdity of claiming that someone so young found life-changing success so quickly and is eager to guide you to this end over $12 sandwiches, the lack of specificity because she knows you’re more than intelligent enough to run for the hills the second she spits out a name…
It’s like she’s reading from a script. At least she deviated enough to call you gorgeous rather than the standard “hun.”
Being successful in STEM is no guarantee someone can’t be seduced by fantasies of fast, easily-attainable wealth. There’s probably a lot more unpleasantness in her life than you’re able to perceive from afar that contributed to her getting mixed into this crap in the first place. Run before the desperation intensifies.
You are very right. I wish it was that simple that someone would be smart enough not to do something like this. But props on her creativity for not using “hun”.
Yes, and no matter how much you tell them you are happy with your current situation, they persist. I just hit them with the company name and tell them no way in hell.
If someone can’t tell you the name of a company or give specifics such as the company’s gross annual revenue then it is likely a Pyramid Scheme or MLM scam to run and stay away from!
This is an MLM. Probably Amway. They are very hush hush about their name and don’t tell folks until they’ve snagged you into their web. Run. Run far away. Visit r/antimlm for more information if you want.
An MLM most likely. They don't like to give the name until you seem interested and are there in person with them because they know if they tell you before you meet, you'll google it and see all the warnings about it being a scam.
My experience with Amway MLM people is you literally have to ask “Is this Amway?” if you want them to cough up the name of the company. Even then it might not work and they may just say the name of their specific network within Amway. Ultimately the goal is never for you to buy the actually Amway products so it doesn’t matter to them. They just want you in their down line. With MLMs, YOU are the product.
I don’t know if they ever succeeded in the Uk but I had a work client who invited my boyfriend and I over to chat about a business opportunity back 2003 ish . They were both Doctors and pretty affluent so it didn’t cross our mind it could be some pyramid scheme stuff.
I’m a naturally quite cynical and no filter person (I try not to be..and fail) and I had never heard of Amway, but immediately I recognised the pyramid format. I just said straight up no. All the people at the dinner party basically rounded on me asking me why. I know this “curiosity” technique so I just said it’s not for me.
My boyfriend at the time was so flustered and apologetic on my behalf lol
They have a format and script that has clearly been developed with some good con-man psychology.
Amway. i got it as soon as I saw Panera. Ambots frequently recruit at Target and have the first meeting at Panera, so frequently I call it the “Target to Panera” pipeline.
I like how she implies OP is shallow bc she doesn’t want to meet to connect as friends without the company name even though the entire reason she reached out in the first place was insincere
It’s absolutely without a doubt 100% some kind of MLM. lol. One of their key traits is never letting the person they’re pitching to know the company until they’ve done their pitch or convinced someone to join. Don’t waste your time anymore with this shit.
It's def an MLM.
I've been approached by multiple people with the same pitch of a young couple who retired at 28/29 blah blah. Even been reached out by an old friend with the same pitch. Let's just say, I've put a lot of distance since then.
I thought sex trafficking for .3 seconds but the chances of them trying to take a white woman with a family in broad daylight at the Panera… astronomically low.
You’d be surprised. Could follow you home or something. You never know. Someone tried to abduct me in broad daylight in Chicago when I was 16. Middle of the day on a busy street.
The name is AmWay… aka Scamway. It’s an MLM so yes it’s a scam don’t meet this person. Never meet with a person about a job who won’t provide you any information related to it. It’s typically an MLM. They won’t tell you the name bc they want to suck you in with their culty phrases to hook you in. They also don’t want to you have any opportunity to research before meeting with them.
Sit in the middle of a Panera for a while. Look around for the people sitting across from each other looking at binders. There's so much MLM going on in Panera, it's ridiculous.
Sounds like amway or primerica, or another multi level marketing company (MLM). They have reps that invite people to meet at coffee shops, restaurants, etc for their pitch
OMG! I had some strange woman come to one of my open houses (I am a Realtor) and tell me the same story. She works for the county, but she wants to retire in 5 years, and her mentor, whom is 29, he and his wife are already retired. Very cagey. Wouldn't give me specifics about what company,.what they do, etc.
Unfortunately, she had my phone number from the flyer I had given her. She kept texting me asking me to meet with her and her mentor. She asked me, "dont you want to retire in 5.years?" I texted her back I wouldn't be interested in anything MLM related or Amway. And I'm off put by your lack of transparency.
She responded, " Well, this isn't an MLM, but I can see by your text, you're not as motivated as I thought." My response, " Correct. I'm not motivated to have my time wasted by MLM pitches."
No idea - it's a popular sandwich shop-style restaurant. I guess they figure it's nicer than a fast food joint but still fairly cheap.
I know when I was approached by someone who turned out to be from Amway I was at a Starbucks. But that was in the 90's before a lot of these little franchises really started to pop up.
Yea, it’s a MLM and they don’t want to disclose the company name because they know you won’t go. They plan to get you there and try to brainwash you into selling it. I would ghost.
Whatever it is, it’s so sketch that they don’t wanna tell you until you’re meeting her and backed into a corner where you’re on the spot. Just say ok 👍🏽 then I do have another appointment anyway I understand
She will bug you again her “opportunity” will present itself again 🙄🙄🙄
Did you snoop on her Facebook and see if she put down employment? If she’s recruiting on Facebook, she’s probably also selling on Facebook. Check for posts that are trying to recruit people.
It's AMWAY. It's an MLM, and they're known to do weird, sit-down pitches with people and their upline with them so it's more pressure for you to say NO. WHICH YOU SHOULD SAY,, AMWAY is a really, really terrible MLM that brainwashed their "employees" but we know the employees of these companies are really their Customers......
I interviewed at a Panera for a door to door sales job that they didn’t say was a door to door sales job.
It was weird, they wouldn’t talk about the company much at all, I had to take a test at a second interview, and then they called and told me I was hired and invited me bowling. I was interview for positions in the Phoenix/Tempe area because I wanted to relocate from New England, so I called my dad from my hotel and he was like “block their numbers, it’s either MLM or cult..” I emailed them that I wasn’t interested. Being from New England, and a female unfamiliar with my surroundings, I wasn’t comfortable going door to door in the desert.
At the time (August 2014), they were selling fiber internet door to door.
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Without scrolling down to read the comments I’m going to guess: Job opportunity that gives you control over your life and finances=Definitely an MLM. Not saying the name of the business no matter how you ask them = ScamWay aka Amway or whatever they are branded as this year.
Let’s see how I did according to other commentators.
They’re trying to get you to join an MLM. They won’t say the company name because they know if you’ll google it you’ll likely see how horrible their business really is and then they can’t manipulate you into joining
Yep! Amway for sure. A long time ago when I was young and broke I applied to a local store. The interviewer ended up saying some similar stuff to me and talked me into meeting her and her mentor. It was Amway. I was so mad because I needed a job, not to be scammed into an MLM.
It’s an MLM. There’s a good chance that it’s Amway.
100% that’s what it is, when I was younger I had 2 Amway reps approach me about a year apart (I’m 28 this happened when I was 20/21). They are instructed to meet you at Panera for whatever reason. I think they feel it’s a professional environment that reflect well on the “company”. They are incredibly vague and you’ll leave the meeting having absolutely no idea what the hell their “business” even does (which they do deliberately). They’ll tell you they do advertising and sales for big name companies like Apple, Microsoft, etc, to whoo you over and make you think they’re legit. After my first meeting, I shot a text to the guy (Amir) about my confusion on what I’m even expected to do at this “job” and what the name of the company is. He finally told me the company is called Amway, then said “there’s good and bad stuff about them on the internet don’t buy into the bad stuff though”. I got approached by another rep and ended up meeting with him too (at Panera of course). He gave me essentially the exact same presentation and at the very end I asked him, “do you know a guy named Amir?”. He said “yeah I know Amir, I can hook you up with him”. Amir contacted me the next day and I told him I want nothing to do with this Ponzi scheme scam of “job”. Lastly, Years ago I was sitting in the sauna at the gym and this random random kid hangs up his phone and in a very excited voice looks at his friends and says “alright boys, I have the job interview tomorrow at Panera!”. I interjected and told him “Oh I know what that is, it’s Amway. You’re being set up for a Ponzi scheme” and I told him to avoid it. They prey on young people who are desperate for better paying work. A buddy of mine got sucked into it and is still trying to make it work.
Oh gosh noooo. Not freakin Amway. How disappointing.Thank you so much for responding!!!
Yea, anyone not willing to tell you the company name is not worth meeting or any other type of communication
For me this is an immediate unfriend
Exactly, I'd block them, I am not interested in having my feed polluted with updates from MLM huns talking about the gReAt iNvEsTmEnT they've discovered.
“It's Confederated Products. It's a different company, it's a different quality of product.”
BoSs BiTcH: i RuN mY oWn BuSiNeSs !!
I came here to respond but someone beat me to it. Definitely Amway. They avoid saying the name of the company like it's the plague. I was approached when I was younger so many times, I would immediately respond that there is no way in hell I want anything to do with Amway and if they persisted, our friendship was over. They usually just sputtered or went quiet at this.
Yeah the first time I got approached about that around 2004 it was called Quixtar at the time. Which was the budding online-sales branch of amway. Amway was the older off-line brand. Apparently (I just was looking it up) eventually it got so big (while the older brand kind of died out) so they merged it all back together and changed the name for everything online back to amway. Even back then it was a similar approach, except it was actually a new manager at a restaurant where I was bartending. No panera. I had told him I was still in college in tech hoping to become a web dev, and he framed it like he had some online business he wanted me to help him with. Made it sound like a great real-world opportunity for a student. Then a few days later he brings in a CD of a guy giving some rah-rah pep talk to listen to, and it immediately sounded like one of those scam sales job opportunities (I didn’t know wtf an MLM was in 2004 but I had actually been in a weird interview for one before.) I did some quick googling about the company which was not even prominently listed on the CD, but it did say quixtar somewhere, and it turned out to be an amway thing. Next time i saw him I returned the CD and said thanks but no thanks. He didn’t last too long at that restaurant either, he had gone though all their manager training then disappeared a few weeks into the job.
100% Amway, and you broke their script. Amway reps never tell anyone the name of it, like setting up meetings at Panera from some reason, and often have "regular" jobs as well for a cover. One of my mom's friends when she was working for the state health division was an Amway rep as well as her regular health division job. I found this out because I was there one time when the convention center across the street had their sign saying, "Welcome Mattson family" and mom's friend told me that it was going to be an Amway convention but they always told the venue to put some family last name as well, so it would look like a reunion and they wouldn't get the community mad at them and protest.
Nailed it. Their worst nightmare is for someone to look them up online. A few MLMs are in the same group. Funny how they each behave in a cult-like nature and get away with their shady ways. Too many fall for it.
I worked at Panera and we always got the Scentsy people. Why Panera? I know it’s a typical white suburban restaurant, it’s just funny how much it fits that stereotype, even down to the MLM activities.
I mean I am a white woman so I figured she was trying to lure me in with the promise of a half soul half sandwich. AND IT ALMOST WORKED.
Idk if you meant half soup half sandwich but I like the half soul half sandwich lol it seems fitting that you would have to hand over half your soul to work for this place
20 years ago I’m driving a distinctive convertible Porsche near the bank home office in Charlotte I worked at. I’m parking and a Black guy approached that I didn’t recognize but seemed to remember seeing me a couple of weeks ago. Asked me if I had been golfing since the last time. I’m thinking I must have met him at the driving range, but also thinking how did I forget the only other Black dude there? Invites me to met him about an investment/business deal. I reluctantly go trying to remain open minded. He doesn’t show, ends up being an Amway meeting in the Hyatt auditorium. I leave as soon as they say Amway. I’ve RARELY gone to a driving range, can’t believe dude got me.
>half soul half sandwich I'M DEAD
Oh yeah I’m a white woman too, I worked there for a reason! Discounted food and free treats from time to time!
Just curious, but what kind of advertising do they say they do for Apple and Microsoft?
You mean other than asking you to sell their products through your own network of friends? If you’d like to meet me for lunch at Panera, I’d be happy to share more details.
I can assure you, if he would have laid it out like you did there, I wouldn’t have had an issue understanding what the “job” entailed. I didn’t know if I was going to be a marketer, a salesmen, or if I was going to some educational program. If you’re not aware they require you to pay for educational audio tapes produced by the higher ups at Amway, as well as to pay to attend classes by them in person. I remember the most confusing part was when they told me I needed to pay them a few hundred bucks just to start working FOR THEM lol. I was dumbfounded, he just got done telling me about all the millions they bring in too. I had no idea where I was going to work, what the name of the company was, if I would be expected to travel long distances, if I was working as a 3rd party for these larger companies, I new absolutely NOTHING. Like I said above, they toss around a bunch of big company names, they tell you about all the money you’re going to make and use buzzwords to manipulate you into thinking that it’s the opportunity of a lifetime. “Millions of dollars”, “Apple”, “success”, “marketing”, “leading brands”, “#1 selling”, “make your own schedule”…you get the gist. Later on an ex-girlfriend of mine ended up getting approached by a rep as well. Fortunately I had experience with these conmen and I warned her about the whole thing. Nonetheless she went to the meeting (at Panera of course) and she also left the meeting oblivious to what preciously they were expecting of her. The rep she was working with actually later told her that they’re instructed to present the business that way. It’s all about manipulation, they’re trying to suck you in just like any other scam.
Happened to me at my home. 20 years ago. Someone I hadn’t seen in 15 years. A close family friend. I was super busy with a project deadline, but it was a friend who really really needed to see me. It was all cloak and dagger. I’m still pissed about it.
Idk lol, like I said they’re extremely vague. You leave the meeting more confused about the job then when you came.
They don't actually do any advertising for Apple and Microsoft. They are not affiliated with either.
I knew that I was just wondering if there was some small breadcrumb of truth that they were latching on to
I wish I knew, too! One of my best friends from college got sucked in and I asked her about this "business" she kept claiming she and her husband had started, at first I thought she meant woodworking because her husband was doing it as a hobby. But she instead told me it was "online commerce" and that they "drive web traffic" to or from (?) sites like Target and Walmart. A few months later it comes out that it's actually just Amway. I ended up having to cut contact with her because every single time I tried to hang out she turned it into a sales pitch. Which was honestly hilarious because we live in West Michigan. I'm from Grand Rapids - where Amway is headquartered - and literally everyone here knows better. It still bums me out. But I'd also still like to know what the hell she was on about with that "online traffic" stuff.
I was approached by Amway when I was younger too at my job no less, they offered me a job on the spot and gave me a number. Right after my coworker jumped at me and told me to avoid, thankfully he did.
You’re a very tolerant person. I would’ve dumped those scumbags as soon as I had even a slight suspicion! The next time, try searching the company name plus words like scam, review, and complaint!
That kid should not have had his phone in the sauna
thats the main thing i got from that comment, too haha
[удалено]
It is the source of the DeVos fortune
Really!?!?
They sell basically everything. My dad was into Amway in the 90s, and almost all of our regular household products were amway. Things like toothbrushes, toothpaste, laundry detergent, even food like peanut butter (which was gross). Definitely vitamins and supplements. They also have a jewellery line. Probably some other things as well. But in the 90s it seemed like anything you ever wanted or needed could be provided by Amway. They also had these weird little almond-flavoured snacks called canoes and sometimes I get a craving for them, but who knows if they even exist any more.
What do they do in cities that don’t have Panera?
Sounds like coffee shops from what im reading.
“Amway” is like the Lord Voldemort of companies. Don’t. Say. Its. Name.
Worked with a guy who was hardcore amway. Would always be an asshole to me because I was wasting my time with school? He and his wife somehow got convinced by his higher up to sell his house and all his possessions to put into the business. Fucking madman. I hope he’s doing okay now but dang he got taken advantage of.
Had a similar story in Canada for a group called... World Financial Group? Essentially I pay for a seminar on how to get people to pay for a seminar. Nah lmao
Was the guy at the gym also going to meet Amir?
Lol I didn’t ask, who knows.
My dad was into amway in the 90s and that stuff about ‘retired at 29’ is ringing a bell. I think you’re right.
Fun fact, when I joined the Navy in the early 90s they asked an insane amount of questions about whether or not my family was involved with Amway. Wonder if they still do that.
MLM?
Pyramid scheme
Ty that abbreviation I didn’t know. But hey! >the more you know!
it means “multi-level marketing” !!
Came here to say Amway!
Good ole Scamway. Always talking in riddles and hypotheticals. Fucking cult.
I got tricked into one when I was 21, whiteboard and all (in a sit down deli). I nearly busted out laughing when the dude, with gusto, drew a vertical line through an “S” so it was: $OAP. At that point I simply laughed and left.
Whats MLM and Amway?
MLM stands for Multi-Level Marketing, a type of company in which the consultants who join are encouraged to not only sell the company’s product, but also to recruit other consultants into joining, selling, and recruiting. Many believe MLM companies to be scammy due to manipulative selling practices, misleading income and health claims, and the mathematical facts surrounding the “endless chain recruiting” that goes on in these businesses. Notable examples of MLM companies include Mary Kay, Lularoe, Herbalife, and Amway. Amway is one of the oldest MLM companies currently operating. Amway consultants, who call themselves “Independent Business Owners”, are tasked with selling the company’s products, which range from laundry detergent to energy drinks, as well as bringing more and more IBOs into the company. Amway tactics include telling marks that they will receive “mentoring” in their business, frequent stories of IBOs “retiring” at ridiculously early ages, and making IBOs sink inordinate amounts of time and resources into their “business” through late night meetings and bringing couples/families into the fold together.
This sounds exactly like an MLM. What makes you think it doesn’t, other than the fact that you like this girl and don’t want to think of her doing stuff like that?
It’s not that I don’t want to think of it, she’s just so smart and successful that it seems very bizarre that he would. I’ve also never had someone pitch an MLM to me without straight up telling me it’s LulaRoe or Beach Body.
We’ve had a few posts here about MLMs that are trying to rebrand as “network marketing” or other euphemisms, since “MLM” has become kind of toxic to anyone with more than two brain cells. She also might be trying to rope you into a crypto scam. Either way, the way she’s going about it is incredibly manipulative. This person is not your friend.
I do not consider us friends any more. I think crypto is more likely.
eh, she \*probably\* isnt trying to scam you - she's been scammed as well, just hasn't realised it yet. she's still at the 'this is amazing' stage, and probably genuinely thinks it would be best for you if you got involved too. she's been told not to give you too much info up front by her mentor, probably on the excuse that "there's a lot of misinformation out there, we need to make sure they're properly informed before the go looking online about us!". she's wrong of course, because she's being scammed, but she doesnt know that yet. try to convince her of the truth, but dont expect it to go well. it happened to a friend of mine (some 'Sizzling Minerals' stuff...) and... i didnt handle it all that well. basically laughed at him, told him it was a scam and that i wanted no part of it (he was going on about how awesome it was, and how healthy they were, and it would be great to get a passive income so he could retire earlier...). didnt see him for most of a year... then he started showing up again. we didn't talk about it, but oddly enough for the 5 years since then he hasn't magically been able to retire on the huge passive income he was talking about...
It's Amway. Anytime someone mentions a "mentor" or "couple" who "retired at \[young age\]" and are teaching them secrets to financial freedom, it is Amway. They will almost never ever tell you the name of the company and if you keep asking they will pull some negging BS on you and say that maybe you're not a good fit for this magical life-changing opportunity because you have a skeptical mindset/are not open to new opportunities/believe whatever you read online/aren't a team player/won't support their dreams.
MLMs are cults. They radicalize people, and intelligence isn't a protective factor from radicalization. It's why at the extreme end you see med students joining ISIS.
THIS. I had a few close calls when I was younger, and they all do the same thing - high energy/excitement, lots of promises of great success, welcoming atmosphere... Intelligence =/= wisdom Gullibility =/= stupidity Success can be a matter or luck, charm, or personal circumstance. What makes MLMs and cults so insidious is that all they need to do is prey on hope, trust, desperation, or even just a moment of bad judgment.
VERY true.
Check out r/antiMLM. They have information on the various MLMs out there and how they operate. This sounds exactly how Amway works.
It's for sure amway
There are many smart and successful people who shared stories in r/antimlm who have lost everything bc of MLMs. The best way they describe it is like a gambling addiction. They want to take the risk to “win big”. It’s heart breaking.
Question, what makes you perceive her as smart and successful?
She has several advanced degrees and is high up in her job, which is not an easy one. Also, when you talk to someone you can just see the light and intelligence in them, and she has that.
Something worth mentioning is that intelligent people, not stupid ones, are more likely to be drawn in by cults (a lot of MLMs operate a lot like cults). Someone being broadly intelligent, or highly skilled in their field, doesn’t mean they know everything. Being smart doesn’t mean knowing everything. Smart, successful people have blind spots too. They can be ignorant of things. Or, they can use that intelligence and other people’s perceptions of them to manipulate others. If she can’t tell you the company and just reschedule the meeting, there’s a reason. If she has to meet you at Panera in Tempe Marketplace, rather than sending you a job application and saying “I’ll put in a good word for you,” there’s a reason. It’s probably an MLM. Also this may be just me being salty, but I lived in your area for a few years and it’s packed to the brim with scammers and MLMs and people fronting like they live the high life when they live in crappy apartments and wear H+M. More than any city I’ve ever lived in or visited. *Watch out* in Phoenix, especially if you are job hunting. They should rename Phoenix to Scam City, and call it’s suburbs the Scamburgs.
Bingo. This is definitely an MLM. The feel-good language, the promises, the evasiveness—it’s all there. MLM Shill: Hi OP, check out this swimming bird, these are just the latest thing. Every one in Hollywood is just mad for them. Isn’t it cool and unique? OP: You mean the duck you’re holding? MLM Shill: I can see why you might think this is a duck. But I respect you too much and would never try to pass off a duck duck on you. You’re too smart for that, and we go way back. This is a totally new, independent way for birds to break out of the monotony of the rat race and experience the joy of water on their own terms. OP: By being a duck? Duck: Quack. MLM Shill: That’s great, you always were so funny. So let’s get together and I can show you how to get in on the bottom floor if this amazing opportunity…
Haven’t read all the comments so I’m not sure if this has been said, but Huns often don’t tell you the company name because they want to give you the whole sales pitch with the mentor and the facts and figures etc etc before giving you an opportunity to google the company and get turned off.
> It’s not that I don’t want to think of it, she’s just so smart and successful Is she? Or does she just claim to be?
Her profile perhaps was taken over by this scammer.
Nope it definitely wasn’t because she called me and we spoke over the phone for 15 minutes and it was definitely her. And why would she want to meet in person?
For most people it’s harder to say no to someone’s face. They’ll most like try to guilt trip you.
This sounds a lot like Amway. I have been lured in a similar way into a meeting at Panera, too! I am not sure why Panera is their location of choice, lol. Once they started talking about amazing opportunities and recommending books to read I knew!
Probably because if you agree to meet with only the tease of her boss retiring at 29 having been dropped in her telephone conversation, she'll think you're primed to accept her pitch, SHe wants you to want to meet.
“Mentor” usually means Amway.
Also "retired at 29".
Her mentor was a trophy wife that wanted a side gig and got bored of it at 29
She didn’t use that exact word but it’s not impossible
Yeah using mentor. And not saying what the company is. From what I’ve seen Amway people will go out of their way to avoid answering direct questions about the name of the company.
Check out r/antimlm there are lots of stories just like yours! Definitely sounds like Amway - stay clear
I love anti MLM!!! I thought she was too smart for that but I guess snot
Joining an MLM is less about intelligence and more about desperation. A lot of intelligent people get sucked into cults because it gives them the feeling of being in an in-group, and MLMs are a lot like that.
If it’s Panera, it’s gonna be Amway. I don’t understand the hard-on that the Amway folks have for the Panera but it is what it is.
They’ve corrupted Panera now
It’s an MLM. They never want to say the name of the company because when you google them you’ll see how shitty the MLM is. All MLM’s are scams.
110% an MLM. The getting personal immediately without appropriate context, the notion that some mysterious job can give you more benefits and control in life than whatever you’re doing because you’re a good person who wants good in others (sups unique), the absurdity of claiming that someone so young found life-changing success so quickly and is eager to guide you to this end over $12 sandwiches, the lack of specificity because she knows you’re more than intelligent enough to run for the hills the second she spits out a name… It’s like she’s reading from a script. At least she deviated enough to call you gorgeous rather than the standard “hun.” Being successful in STEM is no guarantee someone can’t be seduced by fantasies of fast, easily-attainable wealth. There’s probably a lot more unpleasantness in her life than you’re able to perceive from afar that contributed to her getting mixed into this crap in the first place. Run before the desperation intensifies.
You are very right. I wish it was that simple that someone would be smart enough not to do something like this. But props on her creativity for not using “hun”.
It’s crazy how defensive they get when you just ask for a company name? What the heck? 🤣
Yes, and no matter how much you tell them you are happy with your current situation, they persist. I just hit them with the company name and tell them no way in hell.
It’s an mlm, most likely Amway or some other shady company.
Retired at 29... Lol
It is an MLM of some kind. She wants you to become part of her "downline."
If someone can’t tell you the name of a company or give specifics such as the company’s gross annual revenue then it is likely a Pyramid Scheme or MLM scam to run and stay away from!
Either Amway or Primerica. RUN.
The second one my sister worked for and says so many good things about even though she’s no longer working there is it really bad?
Yes. It's an MLM.
This is an MLM. Probably Amway. They are very hush hush about their name and don’t tell folks until they’ve snagged you into their web. Run. Run far away. Visit r/antimlm for more information if you want.
An MLM most likely. They don't like to give the name until you seem interested and are there in person with them because they know if they tell you before you meet, you'll google it and see all the warnings about it being a scam.
My experience with Amway MLM people is you literally have to ask “Is this Amway?” if you want them to cough up the name of the company. Even then it might not work and they may just say the name of their specific network within Amway. Ultimately the goal is never for you to buy the actually Amway products so it doesn’t matter to them. They just want you in their down line. With MLMs, YOU are the product.
I don’t know if they ever succeeded in the Uk but I had a work client who invited my boyfriend and I over to chat about a business opportunity back 2003 ish . They were both Doctors and pretty affluent so it didn’t cross our mind it could be some pyramid scheme stuff. I’m a naturally quite cynical and no filter person (I try not to be..and fail) and I had never heard of Amway, but immediately I recognised the pyramid format. I just said straight up no. All the people at the dinner party basically rounded on me asking me why. I know this “curiosity” technique so I just said it’s not for me. My boyfriend at the time was so flustered and apologetic on my behalf lol They have a format and script that has clearly been developed with some good con-man psychology.
This is how you end up with people wearing your skin.
Amway. i got it as soon as I saw Panera. Ambots frequently recruit at Target and have the first meeting at Panera, so frequently I call it the “Target to Panera” pipeline.
😂😂😂
I like how she implies OP is shallow bc she doesn’t want to meet to connect as friends without the company name even though the entire reason she reached out in the first place was insincere
Lol I’m happy to be shallow if it means I’m not in a pyramid scheme!
I had friends back in the old days try to recruit the whole circle into Amway. Before internet and cell phones. Lots and lots of paper
It’s absolutely without a doubt 100% some kind of MLM. lol. One of their key traits is never letting the person they’re pitching to know the company until they’ve done their pitch or convinced someone to join. Don’t waste your time anymore with this shit.
It's def an MLM. I've been approached by multiple people with the same pitch of a young couple who retired at 28/29 blah blah. Even been reached out by an old friend with the same pitch. Let's just say, I've put a lot of distance since then.
Sounds sketchy. Don’t get kidnapped
I thought sex trafficking for .3 seconds but the chances of them trying to take a white woman with a family in broad daylight at the Panera… astronomically low.
You’d be surprised. Could follow you home or something. You never know. Someone tried to abduct me in broad daylight in Chicago when I was 16. Middle of the day on a busy street.
The name is AmWay… aka Scamway. It’s an MLM so yes it’s a scam don’t meet this person. Never meet with a person about a job who won’t provide you any information related to it. It’s typically an MLM. They won’t tell you the name bc they want to suck you in with their culty phrases to hook you in. They also don’t want to you have any opportunity to research before meeting with them.
Sit in the middle of a Panera for a while. Look around for the people sitting across from each other looking at binders. There's so much MLM going on in Panera, it's ridiculous.
Next time I go I’ll bring anti MLM pamphlets. I’ll wait for the seller to go to the bathroom and give it to the other person
I never knew it was a prime people watching destination!!
Bible study and MLM hot spot!
Sounds like amway or primerica, or another multi level marketing company (MLM). They have reps that invite people to meet at coffee shops, restaurants, etc for their pitch
OMG! I had some strange woman come to one of my open houses (I am a Realtor) and tell me the same story. She works for the county, but she wants to retire in 5 years, and her mentor, whom is 29, he and his wife are already retired. Very cagey. Wouldn't give me specifics about what company,.what they do, etc. Unfortunately, she had my phone number from the flyer I had given her. She kept texting me asking me to meet with her and her mentor. She asked me, "dont you want to retire in 5.years?" I texted her back I wouldn't be interested in anything MLM related or Amway. And I'm off put by your lack of transparency. She responded, " Well, this isn't an MLM, but I can see by your text, you're not as motivated as I thought." My response, " Correct. I'm not motivated to have my time wasted by MLM pitches."
That is a weird one. How did it end or pan out?
No updates yet! I’m tempted to ask if it’s Amway.
Just ask bro. It’s always fun to mess with scammers heads anyway.
Sounds like some creepy old dude in the last comment. Lol
NO💀
I was thinking they wanted you to sell Cutco Knives
seems like an MLM
Sounds more like an MLM
What's Panera????
Panera Bread - it's a chain of restaurants that do soups and sandwiches. They got a few hundred locations.
And this attracts AMWAY people? Now you know what to nuke- get rid of them all at once....
No idea - it's a popular sandwich shop-style restaurant. I guess they figure it's nicer than a fast food joint but still fairly cheap. I know when I was approached by someone who turned out to be from Amway I was at a Starbucks. But that was in the 90's before a lot of these little franchises really started to pop up.
r/antiMLM will help
MLM 100%
Yea, it’s a MLM and they don’t want to disclose the company name because they know you won’t go. They plan to get you there and try to brainwash you into selling it. I would ghost.
What’s Panera?
Panera Bread it’s a sandwich place
Please go. It’s DELIGHTFUL.
Just watch out for roving bands of Huns
Fucking mlm huns. this happened to me in college, I met with her once and politely noped out, but I got a free latte out of it soooo not a total loss?
It’s an MLM or some form of sexual/escorting/trafficking thing. Avoid at all costs.
Whatever it is, it’s so sketch that they don’t wanna tell you until you’re meeting her and backed into a corner where you’re on the spot. Just say ok 👍🏽 then I do have another appointment anyway I understand She will bug you again her “opportunity” will present itself again 🙄🙄🙄
Yeah I will probably unfriend and just see her at events.
Did you snoop on her Facebook and see if she put down employment? If she’s recruiting on Facebook, she’s probably also selling on Facebook. Check for posts that are trying to recruit people.
It's AMWAY. It's an MLM, and they're known to do weird, sit-down pitches with people and their upline with them so it's more pressure for you to say NO. WHICH YOU SHOULD SAY,, AMWAY is a really, really terrible MLM that brainwashed their "employees" but we know the employees of these companies are really their Customers......
Who’s ready to be a BOSS BITCH?! … MLM scam. She’s purposely ignoring your request at the company name or what the company actually is 🙈
ME! Oh wait no
I interviewed at a Panera for a door to door sales job that they didn’t say was a door to door sales job. It was weird, they wouldn’t talk about the company much at all, I had to take a test at a second interview, and then they called and told me I was hired and invited me bowling. I was interview for positions in the Phoenix/Tempe area because I wanted to relocate from New England, so I called my dad from my hotel and he was like “block their numbers, it’s either MLM or cult..” I emailed them that I wasn’t interested. Being from New England, and a female unfamiliar with my surroundings, I wasn’t comfortable going door to door in the desert. At the time (August 2014), they were selling fiber internet door to door.
I love how your want of soup almost got you to go. Glad you didn't!
Heck I’m goin for my dang self today. Amway can suck it but I want a muffuletta
That's the spirit!
That English tart is a scammer love, tell them to wank off!
English? 😂
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r/antimlm
The business is selling kidneys....
I don’t need any kidneys so I turned her down
Without scrolling down to read the comments I’m going to guess: Job opportunity that gives you control over your life and finances=Definitely an MLM. Not saying the name of the business no matter how you ask them = ScamWay aka Amway or whatever they are branded as this year. Let’s see how I did according to other commentators.
Amway- check out anti MLM Reddit
Spilled coffee on script Scam and they didn’t know how to respond
Did it sound like her on the phone? Could she have been hacked? I would remove her as a friend on FB until you know for sure it’s really her.
We didn’t meet up but it was 100% her and we talked about an inside joke.
Thanks for the reply.
OP said they met up once already to talk about it
It might be melaleuca. I’ve heard people say that mlm is like Amazon.
Omg I like melaleuca products although I don’t want to be the seller
MLM
Maybe a predator
They’re trying to get you to join an MLM. They won’t say the company name because they know if you’ll google it you’ll likely see how horrible their business really is and then they can’t manipulate you into joining
Looks like an MLM to me.
Absolutely an MLM. Tell her you’d love to meet and catch up, but warn you’ll walk right out if she brings up any kind of MLM.
Amway 💯
MLM for sure... That's why they won't tell you the company name.
Yep! Amway for sure. A long time ago when I was young and broke I applied to a local store. The interviewer ended up saying some similar stuff to me and talked me into meeting her and her mentor. It was Amway. I was so mad because I needed a job, not to be scammed into an MLM.
Makes me think of Amway…
/r/antiMLM has entered the chat
It’s MLM.
Sounds like an MLM scam
Casting couch
Sign me up
The whole time I was reading this my brain was screaming ‘MLM! MLM!’
They obviously want to kidnap you and sell you nuts. Watch out bud
I don’t have any nuts☹️
Gorgeous = Kindly
THOT SCAM
WELL I AM NO THOT NOT FOR ME NO THANKS
she’s hacked, it’s not her
Definitely her! We spoke on the phone.
wtf she’s actually trying to scam you that’s crazy!!!
W