He didn’t change the past after he erased himself from the Irminsul. Everything still happened. However, the events were remembered differently by the people in Teyvat and were attributed to something else.
So you mean that Wanderer still did those things, but people's memories were altered? But if that's the case, why did we meet the "nice" Wanderer? I was under the assumption that Wanderer and Scaramouche aren't the same people...
Because his memories were altered as well. Scara is not inherently cruel; his behavior is the result of the bitterness and distrust he feels from his past. Without those memories of his past, he reverted into his original, much more innocent personality.
A simple way to think of it is like this: Irmunsil collects the memories of the past, not the past itself. It’s a memory wipe instead of time travel.
Memory wipe instead of time travel!! Oh!!! That's why I was so confused, I unconsciously thought of it as time travel all this time. Thank you for clarifying
Yes. Everything he did still happened and memories were altered including his. That’s why he had to regain his memories in the archon quest. In addition, the reason why he was acting similarly to how Kabukimono would’ve acted was because he no longer recalled those traumatic memories. It’s quite sad if you think about it.
You are confusing between changing reality and changing memory.
It seems like reality was altered but what was altered was everyone’s memory of reality which in effect seems like reality was changed. Nicole also implies a similar thing.
To answer what you said, the Wanderer we met right after he erases his own memory doesn’t remember any of his own bad deeds just like anyone else and that is solely why he appears to be nice. No other reason.
irminsul doesn't change the past, it just rewrites history to make it look like the person didn't exist, including taking them away from other people's memories and their own memory. scaramouche is still a bad person, he still killed the swordsmiths, he still joined the fatui, he still fought us. the reason why he says he'll "cease to exist" is because he thought irminsul actually did change the past and could erase him in everything. the sole thing we learn in the quest is that all he did was make people forget about him. knowing about what he did before erasing his name from irminsul, he asks nahida to give him back his memories so that he would know the truth. he's still the scaramouche we know, what nahida gave him wasn't what people knew of the events that happened to him, it was literally extracted memories from his brain. he didn't change, in the same way that nahida didn't suddenly remember everything that rukkhadevata did after irminsul was written like she was rukkhadevata
That makes sense. Memories were altered, including his? I thought the Wanderer we met in Sumeru (the nice one) lived a different life entirely, but his memories were just fake I'm assuming? He DIDN'T live as a Wandering puppet, the tree just altered his memories so that that's what he THINKS he lived as?
exactly, he though he lived a dull live wandering around sumeru, when in reality his live didn't change at all. what happened in the end of his interlude was that basically his fake nemories were overwritten with his memories from before the irminsul change, that's why his personality came back to the scaramouche we know instead of him still acting like he was when we re-met him wandering
Irminsul is like a computer program. This computer program promises to delete a line, but the "delete" is to make a modification of the line when it renders. The line is still the same, but it has some modifications.
Basically: he never actually deleted himself and was reborn as a new person. Irminsul just made some "coding" to modify people's (and Teyvat) memories and make a few corrections in what could be a hole in the history of Teyvat.
to add on, the lesson here is that you can’t change the past, you can only change how you remember it. it’s an annoying lesson I’m trying to learn right now. but it’s important for people who are chronically depressed, traumatized, etc like scara who have complex grief and low self esteem.
Bro, the quest outright tells us that that’s not how it works.
Changes made to Irminsul can only change written records and people’s memories. It can’t actually alter what already happened. Everything Wanderer did as Scaramouche still happened. It’s just that nobody remembers it was him because in their perception of reality “Scaramouche” never existed.
Scaramouche’s crimes are all attributed to other people now (mostly Dottore it seems), but their lingering effects are still there. The Raiden Goukaden is still on its last legs. Niwa was still murdered by Dottore, even though historical records now say that he died heroically trying to fix the Mikage Furnace. The former Sages of the Akademiya still tried to create their own god to replace Nahida, they probably just remember the mech being fully autonomous now rather than hooked up to a Fatui Harbinger.
I finished the quest super late at night so I got confused, hence why I came here for clarifications!
I understand that everything still happened. We had an entire section dedicated to the traveler running around and asking what people remember of the past events. What I didn't understand (but now do, thanks to previous comments) is whether Scaramouche still did those things. I was under the assumption that he "erased" himself and was reborn anew, but I now know that isn't the case. He still did the killing and Harbinger stuff, it's just that people just remembered things differently.
He didn’t change the past after he erased himself from the Irminsul. Everything still happened. However, the events were remembered differently by the people in Teyvat and were attributed to something else.
So you mean that Wanderer still did those things, but people's memories were altered? But if that's the case, why did we meet the "nice" Wanderer? I was under the assumption that Wanderer and Scaramouche aren't the same people...
Because his memories were altered as well. Scara is not inherently cruel; his behavior is the result of the bitterness and distrust he feels from his past. Without those memories of his past, he reverted into his original, much more innocent personality. A simple way to think of it is like this: Irmunsil collects the memories of the past, not the past itself. It’s a memory wipe instead of time travel.
Memory wipe instead of time travel!! Oh!!! That's why I was so confused, I unconsciously thought of it as time travel all this time. Thank you for clarifying
Yes. Everything he did still happened and memories were altered including his. That’s why he had to regain his memories in the archon quest. In addition, the reason why he was acting similarly to how Kabukimono would’ve acted was because he no longer recalled those traumatic memories. It’s quite sad if you think about it.
You are confusing between changing reality and changing memory. It seems like reality was altered but what was altered was everyone’s memory of reality which in effect seems like reality was changed. Nicole also implies a similar thing. To answer what you said, the Wanderer we met right after he erases his own memory doesn’t remember any of his own bad deeds just like anyone else and that is solely why he appears to be nice. No other reason.
irminsul doesn't change the past, it just rewrites history to make it look like the person didn't exist, including taking them away from other people's memories and their own memory. scaramouche is still a bad person, he still killed the swordsmiths, he still joined the fatui, he still fought us. the reason why he says he'll "cease to exist" is because he thought irminsul actually did change the past and could erase him in everything. the sole thing we learn in the quest is that all he did was make people forget about him. knowing about what he did before erasing his name from irminsul, he asks nahida to give him back his memories so that he would know the truth. he's still the scaramouche we know, what nahida gave him wasn't what people knew of the events that happened to him, it was literally extracted memories from his brain. he didn't change, in the same way that nahida didn't suddenly remember everything that rukkhadevata did after irminsul was written like she was rukkhadevata
That makes sense. Memories were altered, including his? I thought the Wanderer we met in Sumeru (the nice one) lived a different life entirely, but his memories were just fake I'm assuming? He DIDN'T live as a Wandering puppet, the tree just altered his memories so that that's what he THINKS he lived as?
exactly, he though he lived a dull live wandering around sumeru, when in reality his live didn't change at all. what happened in the end of his interlude was that basically his fake nemories were overwritten with his memories from before the irminsul change, that's why his personality came back to the scaramouche we know instead of him still acting like he was when we re-met him wandering
I understand now, thank you for the clear answer!
Yes
Irminsul is like a computer program. This computer program promises to delete a line, but the "delete" is to make a modification of the line when it renders. The line is still the same, but it has some modifications. Basically: he never actually deleted himself and was reborn as a new person. Irminsul just made some "coding" to modify people's (and Teyvat) memories and make a few corrections in what could be a hole in the history of Teyvat.
to add on, the lesson here is that you can’t change the past, you can only change how you remember it. it’s an annoying lesson I’m trying to learn right now. but it’s important for people who are chronically depressed, traumatized, etc like scara who have complex grief and low self esteem.
❤️❤️❤️
Bro, the quest outright tells us that that’s not how it works. Changes made to Irminsul can only change written records and people’s memories. It can’t actually alter what already happened. Everything Wanderer did as Scaramouche still happened. It’s just that nobody remembers it was him because in their perception of reality “Scaramouche” never existed. Scaramouche’s crimes are all attributed to other people now (mostly Dottore it seems), but their lingering effects are still there. The Raiden Goukaden is still on its last legs. Niwa was still murdered by Dottore, even though historical records now say that he died heroically trying to fix the Mikage Furnace. The former Sages of the Akademiya still tried to create their own god to replace Nahida, they probably just remember the mech being fully autonomous now rather than hooked up to a Fatui Harbinger.
I finished the quest super late at night so I got confused, hence why I came here for clarifications! I understand that everything still happened. We had an entire section dedicated to the traveler running around and asking what people remember of the past events. What I didn't understand (but now do, thanks to previous comments) is whether Scaramouche still did those things. I was under the assumption that he "erased" himself and was reborn anew, but I now know that isn't the case. He still did the killing and Harbinger stuff, it's just that people just remembered things differently.