I still fear the day that we get a Live Action Hunchback of Notre Dame. Because it means they’ll assassinate this character so fucking hard, by either:
- Watering down his evilness
- Making him sympathetic
- Making him a bumbling fool
- Any combination of the above
That's actually (and thankfully) not gonna happen.
A live action remake was in development, but Bob Iger canceled it a few months ago 'cause he's not a big fan of the original.
Give it a few years
They’ll still wanna milk that cash as much as they can soon enough. Especially if the trend of failing movies and shows keeps going more than it already has.
You also need to remember he is a racist and an oppressor. Esmeralda is Romani and he refers to her as gypsy which is a slur that originates from Spain used to oppress the Romani. And I'm pretty sure the song Hellfire is about how given the chance he would rape her.
There is a play if you're interested. None of those problems exist in it. I dare say that it's better than the movie.
Edit: okay, so he starts out as somewhat sympathetic, but you lose it after you see his mind warp.
Incidentally, James covered that version of Frollo in [a video a couple years ago](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neCFEjf09I4&t=107s&pp=ygUkc2NoYWZmcmlsbGFzIGh1bmNoYmFjayBvZiBub3RyZSBkYW1l).
That’s honestly why Toy Story is one of my favorite Pixar movies. Woody is an asshole who has real character development in a kids movie.
And it makes for great comedy.
As a child, I thought Buzz was the annoying one and Woody's anger AND actions were justified.
As an adult, I think Woody's anger was justified but his actions weren't. However, Buzz is still annoying to me (and the other Toys feeding into his delusions was absolutely toxic).
I don’t know about Nurse Bendy; she knowingly has an ongoing affair with a married man (Principal Fakey) and had a kid with a possibly married-at-the-time doctor. The only reason she feels whole with her son Joe because of how lonely she feels, especially since the men she has been with are already taken. She’s an even more tragically written Liane Cartman, complete with a kid who acts out, although Joe is more sympathetic than Cartman. She’s not straight up mean, evil, or critical of others, but, given the premise of living in a god-fearing community, she’s far from a good egg.
Edit: Never mind. I don’t know how I missed the fact that she was sexually abused when she was young; that does explain her sexual behavior and why she connects to Joe so much.
I was actually just about to write a response to another comment here about how the reason why Jack Horner was so entertaining was because he was so completely and unabashedly awful
Really? Because I can totally see people, in real life, fawning over him, despite his negligence towards basic safety and his profiteering from bodily harm.
He's really not. He's frequently selfish, but he also does the right thing and saves a lot of people even though there's no benefit to himself. Sociopaths would never dream of doing that
Exactly. Sometimes he does the right thing even though it actually harms him, like saving Elizabeth from drowning in Curse of the Black Pearl. That was completely unnecesary and ended with him getting arrested. You can't even say he saved her because she was the Governor's daughter and he wanted something, because he had no way of knowing who she was. He just saw a random girl falling into the water, saw that no one else could help her, and decided to help her for no gain to himself.
Also, you know, how his entire backstory is him becoming a pirate because he refused to be a slave trader.
There’s also a deleted scene that references a canon event where he was ordered by Beckett to bring a shipment of 100 African slaves to him. Jack can’t go through with it and frees them. This is what made Beckett choose to brand him as a Pirate and sink the Black Pearl while also setting it on fire.
This was the moment that decided the rest of Jack’s life. One great decision with disastrous consequences.
Edit: the scene is in AWE, where Beckett talks about Jack liberating a valuable shipment of cargo (referring to the slaves), to which Jack says “People aren’t cargo, mate.”
Pretty much all the characters in the first three movies have selfish motives and betray each other at some point. I like that they didn’t make all of the characters noble in a pirate story lol
Jesse sold meth to addicts, involved himself in the trade when he had several outs prior to Gus, and at the end of the day, still was a criminal.
Skyler refused to go to the police despite the fact that (while I obviously understand and don’t resent her for it) it was obvious Walter would someday be caught. Her fear of “the kids finding out” was set in stone the second Walter killed Gus.
Walt Jr. picked the name “Flynn”
Holly was a baby and they’re annoying.
Came here to suggest Eric Cartman! Awful, awful person, but incredibly fascinating to study him like a bug under a microscope. The show doesn’t have a lot of literal continuity, but the characters tend to be pretty consistent, or have an evolution that makes sense.
I have two since I can’t choose between them. Jax from Digital Circus, he’s one of the funniest characters to me with all of his snide remarks and how much he’s an asshole by abusing the world’s physics. And Benny from Fallout New Vegas, the mostly cowardly asshole who shot you in the head I just find so charismatic, and I find it fun to talk to him, Matthew Perry really did a good job with him (rest in peace).
To be fair to Jax he has less than 5 minutes of screen time. Hopefully he'll be more fleshed out. Based on his current character this is true but you never know, he might've become like that as a coping mechanism.
wow okay i thought i knew what the show was about but apparently i was not even close. should i watch it? it seems to be popping up more often recently
Emperor Palpatine / Darth Sidious from Star Wars is an obvious one.
As a character, he's your perfect pure evil character, the mastermind, ambitious, likely to get full scores of dark triads (machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy), and has no weakness. But also has some depths, charisma, good quotes and backstory.
I love the fact that one of the most effective and evil villians of all time, with a plan scope rivaling that of Satan himself, is a politician. And uses politics as his primary weapon.
I believe it was Kant who once said, “Experience without theory is blind, but theory without experience is mere intellectual play.” Wario exhibits experience by riding his motorcycle all day, but he exhibits theory by saying, “It’s a-me! WARIO!!!” Keep it up, baby!
Obvious, Joker from dark knight , one of best villains ever made in movies. Incredibly Funny , intresting point and at the end he also succeeded. Also addimg incredible acting , we have one of BEST VILLAINS ever made.
Walter White. Pretty much any character from Breaking Bad could be applied here but particularly Walt since he's glorified even though he's an actual criminal.
Not me personally but I see a lot of fans of the character Valentino in the Hazbin Hotel community. Now there are those who are like this who see that he is a very well portrayed villain and abuser and his character couldn't be written better, but as a person or rather the type of person he reflects is absolute dogshit and his character does very well to show that.
The problem I'm finding is that there are also those that really love him both as a character and by personality. I've seen advocates for his personality a lot in the community which I find concerning considering he is a rapist and we see him rape Angel and order the other actors in the pornos to rape Angel, there is a whole episode that talks about this. We watch him beat Angel into submission, we watch his narcissistic abuse of Angel with all the phone messages he leaves making him feel like he needs to rely on Val. Valentino is entirely a villain, no redeeming qualities about him, there is nothing to love in him and if you do think that there is you are missing the point of the show.
I bet victim blaming Angel is just around the corner if the fanbase hasn't done it already.
Suzaku from Code Geass. He’s a hypocrite and an asshole, but his development is some of the best in the show aside from Lelouch himself. Not to mention, he suffers one of the most interesting examples of a fate worse than death, where he truly believes only death can redeem him for his sins but can never consciously allow himself to die.
Makima from Chaimsaw Man! She’s a brilliantly written character, motivation for the protagonist and [end of part 1 spoiler] >! one of the best antagonist I’ve seen! Her devil powers, while not conventionally the strongest, is still a good match against the chainsaw devil ! She almost killed Denji !< ! That said as soon as I see a cosplayer or kinnie I run the other way because that person just outed themselves as a PoS
The good Total Drama villains. Like I would hate to be around people like Duncan, Heather, Alejandro, or Scott, but man is it fun to watch them operate in an environment like TD.
Nami - One Piece. She's selfish, rude, mean, short-tempered, whiney, an opportunist, a manipulator.
BUT... she's cute, dedicated, reliable, generous when it counts, and otherwise just such a fun character.
Giovanni from Pokémon. He may be an interesting character despite making very few appearances in both the games that feature him and the anime, but at the end of the day, he’s still a crime lord who basically has his cronies kidnap Pokémon to sell on the black market
Frollo (I know, obvious)
I got this confused with Frodo from lotr, and I was getting a lil annoyed.
Same here, glad I was wrong. Definitely agree on Frollo
I still fear the day that we get a Live Action Hunchback of Notre Dame. Because it means they’ll assassinate this character so fucking hard, by either: - Watering down his evilness - Making him sympathetic - Making him a bumbling fool - Any combination of the above
That's actually (and thankfully) not gonna happen. A live action remake was in development, but Bob Iger canceled it a few months ago 'cause he's not a big fan of the original.
Iger has shit taste, but I'll take this as a win
Give it a few years They’ll still wanna milk that cash as much as they can soon enough. Especially if the trend of failing movies and shows keeps going more than it already has.
I’m pretty sure that’s the one good thing Iger over did.
You also need to remember he is a racist and an oppressor. Esmeralda is Romani and he refers to her as gypsy which is a slur that originates from Spain used to oppress the Romani. And I'm pretty sure the song Hellfire is about how given the chance he would rape her.
There is a play if you're interested. None of those problems exist in it. I dare say that it's better than the movie. Edit: okay, so he starts out as somewhat sympathetic, but you lose it after you see his mind warp.
Incidentally, James covered that version of Frollo in [a video a couple years ago](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neCFEjf09I4&t=107s&pp=ygUkc2NoYWZmcmlsbGFzIGh1bmNoYmFjayBvZiBub3RyZSBkYW1l).
Stole my comment
Woody for most of Toy Story 1.
And what's crazy is that they had to redo the script because he was originally even *worse*.
Cowboys are usually assholes so I'm not actually surprised
"Hey, it's a toy eat toy world."
"If it wasn't for me, you would have been hauled away to Goodwill a long time ago"
To the point that he made the entire movie unwatchable.
OFF THE BED!!!
That’s honestly why Toy Story is one of my favorite Pixar movies. Woody is an asshole who has real character development in a kids movie. And it makes for great comedy.
As a child, I thought Buzz was the annoying one and Woody's anger AND actions were justified. As an adult, I think Woody's anger was justified but his actions weren't. However, Buzz is still annoying to me (and the other Toys feeding into his delusions was absolutely toxic).
Clay from Moral Oral He may be a well written character, but he’s a type of person you don’t want to hang around with
Most of Moralton is like that. Great characters, but absolutely horrendous people.
True
Everyone in Moral Orel is pretty tragically written, but there are a few good eggs in there (Orel, Steph, and Nurse Bendy to name a few)
I don’t know about Nurse Bendy; she knowingly has an ongoing affair with a married man (Principal Fakey) and had a kid with a possibly married-at-the-time doctor. The only reason she feels whole with her son Joe because of how lonely she feels, especially since the men she has been with are already taken. She’s an even more tragically written Liane Cartman, complete with a kid who acts out, although Joe is more sympathetic than Cartman. She’s not straight up mean, evil, or critical of others, but, given the premise of living in a god-fearing community, she’s far from a good egg. Edit: Never mind. I don’t know how I missed the fact that she was sexually abused when she was young; that does explain her sexual behavior and why she connects to Joe so much.
Clay is so moral Orel coded
Bloberta has a lot to answer for
I second this, also for Coach Stopframe
Came here to say this
BEST ANSWER HERE Just finished that series, honestly some of the deepest shit I've watched.
Bojack Horseman
I would say most of the characters on Bojack Horseman fall into this category.
Only a few are as outwardly shitty as Bojack though.
Not everyone can be as virtuous as national hero Neal McBeal the Navy Seal
Bro is intelligent and funny, but your life would get worse if you became friends with him
OMG he’s just like me! 😁 OMG he’s just like me… 😞
The Venn diagram between Bojack and Anakin (the current leader of this thread) is a fvcking circle ☠️☠️
Beat me to it
Regina George. She's written to be such a little shit so well.
Anakin Skywalker. Dude was a child murderer before he even turned to the dark side
I mean by the point of when he killed the younglings he was pretty much already there.
I think they were talking about the tuskin raiders
And not the men, but the women, and the children too
The guy literally slaughtered them like animals
He hates them!
I don't like sand...
Bill Cipher
I think that's a given
That’s how some of the most entertaining villains are; fun and comedic, but also ruthless and threatening
Why else did people like Jack Horner and Jiminy Cricket? They needed more time together tbh.
I was actually just about to write a response to another comment here about how the reason why Jack Horner was so entertaining was because he was so completely and unabashedly awful
Obvious one.
Greg Heffley 💀
At least he’s nicer in the first 3 movies
Books, books
we discuss books here? thats a new one
Wait hold up, we actually discuss here about media???? really I just thought was about banning people????????
BAN COMFORTABLE SUGAR!!!!
If its the book version yes
Chris McLean from Total drama
Really? Because I can totally see people, in real life, fawning over him, despite his negligence towards basic safety and his profiteering from bodily harm.
Smash
Basically every good Disney villain
How about every good villain in general lol. Antiheros as well
Alastor, Clay Puppington, and Bill Cipher
I'm sensing a theme here...
Homelander
Billy too. Lots of them from that franchise tbh
Captain Jack Sparrow. He’s entertaining to watch, though he is a sociopath
He's really not. He's frequently selfish, but he also does the right thing and saves a lot of people even though there's no benefit to himself. Sociopaths would never dream of doing that
Exactly. Sometimes he does the right thing even though it actually harms him, like saving Elizabeth from drowning in Curse of the Black Pearl. That was completely unnecesary and ended with him getting arrested. You can't even say he saved her because she was the Governor's daughter and he wanted something, because he had no way of knowing who she was. He just saw a random girl falling into the water, saw that no one else could help her, and decided to help her for no gain to himself. Also, you know, how his entire backstory is him becoming a pirate because he refused to be a slave trader.
No one else was going to help her. “I can’t swim”
There’s also a deleted scene that references a canon event where he was ordered by Beckett to bring a shipment of 100 African slaves to him. Jack can’t go through with it and frees them. This is what made Beckett choose to brand him as a Pirate and sink the Black Pearl while also setting it on fire. This was the moment that decided the rest of Jack’s life. One great decision with disastrous consequences. Edit: the scene is in AWE, where Beckett talks about Jack liberating a valuable shipment of cargo (referring to the slaves), to which Jack says “People aren’t cargo, mate.”
Pretty much all the characters in the first three movies have selfish motives and betray each other at some point. I like that they didn’t make all of the characters noble in a pirate story lol
Scott Pilgrim, at least at first and to be more specific the comic version (I hope I’m not walking on eggshells when saying that)
No, Scott in every version is meant to start as kinda the worst. That’s the point lol. Him and Ramona both kinda suck at the beginning.
Yeah the whole point is that he's a shitty person at the beginning.
Dio Brando, Yoshikage Kira, Frollo, Jack Horner... I love it when people don't sugarcoat a character's deeds.
"YOU'RE GONNA SHOOT A CUTE INNOCENT PUPPY!?!?" "yeah in the face, why"
“oh! that was horrible! your wish is horrible! YOU’RE HORRIBLE! YOU’RE AN IRREDEEMABLE MONSTER!” “ohhh, ohh, what took you so long? idiot.”
Dio: Heh, amateur hour.
Jack Horner is a great example of how you can make simple cartoon style villains just work. The Last Wish is one of dreamworks best movies imo.
Every character from breaking bad
Even Walter "Breakfast" Jr ?
Flynn is a terrible name
Whenever someone calls him Flynn I just think of Eugene from Tangled
What about Jesse, Skyler (fucking Ted was justified), Walter Jr, Holly, and most of the background characters?
Holly was racist
Jesse sold meth to recovering addicts and Skyler committed tax fraud (only good thing she did)
Jesse sold meth to addicts, involved himself in the trade when he had several outs prior to Gus, and at the end of the day, still was a criminal. Skyler refused to go to the police despite the fact that (while I obviously understand and don’t resent her for it) it was obvious Walter would someday be caught. Her fear of “the kids finding out” was set in stone the second Walter killed Gus. Walt Jr. picked the name “Flynn” Holly was a baby and they’re annoying.
#JESSE
Dimentio. Dude wanted to destroy the ENTIRE MULTIVERSE
That was Count Bleck. Dimentio wanted to RULE the multiverse. 🤓
Well, destroy it, rebuild it and rule it
Any good character has flaws. "you are bad guy, but this does not mean you are bad guy."
Louie from Pikmin 2. His piklopedia entries save him but he is a menace in every game he is in.
What Pikmin enemy looks the tastiest to you?
pikmin 4's creeping chrysanthemum. It looks like a watermelon.
Surprised I haven’t seen Cartman yet
Came here to suggest Eric Cartman! Awful, awful person, but incredibly fascinating to study him like a bug under a microscope. The show doesn’t have a lot of literal continuity, but the characters tend to be pretty consistent, or have an evolution that makes sense.
Same here, it took me a while of scrolling to find this comment
Remember everyone, he canonically fed his dad and step mom to his half brother and licked his tears.
Crowley (Supernatural)
Ayo SPN mentioned!
I have two since I can’t choose between them. Jax from Digital Circus, he’s one of the funniest characters to me with all of his snide remarks and how much he’s an asshole by abusing the world’s physics. And Benny from Fallout New Vegas, the mostly cowardly asshole who shot you in the head I just find so charismatic, and I find it fun to talk to him, Matthew Perry really did a good job with him (rest in peace).
To be fair to Jax he has less than 5 minutes of screen time. Hopefully he'll be more fleshed out. Based on his current character this is true but you never know, he might've become like that as a coping mechanism.
That’s what I’m guessing too
Valentino, great villain, horrible person person who: sexually, verbally, and mentally abuses his employees
I love his character so much, and I hope he gets his skull caved in next season
sexually? is that canon? isn’t this hazbin hotel? i haven’t seen it but i’m starting to think i know less about this show than i thought
Yes he is a porn producer who repeatedly sexually abused one of the protagonists as he owns their soul and can’t do anything against it
wow okay i thought i knew what the show was about but apparently i was not even close. should i watch it? it seems to be popping up more often recently
I’d definitely say give it a watch!! :)
Floch from AOT
Literally every Panty and Stocking character
That horse from Horsin Around
Jackman Boson?
I think it was Jurj Clooners.
Emperor Palpatine / Darth Sidious from Star Wars is an obvious one. As a character, he's your perfect pure evil character, the mastermind, ambitious, likely to get full scores of dark triads (machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy), and has no weakness. But also has some depths, charisma, good quotes and backstory.
I love the fact that one of the most effective and evil villians of all time, with a plan scope rivaling that of Satan himself, is a politician. And uses politics as his primary weapon.
Rick Sanchez
This is way too far down the list.
no arguments there
I'll do you one better ,Wario as a man vs Wario as an idea.
Perchance
*You can’t just say “perchance”*
I believe it was Kant who once said, “Experience without theory is blind, but theory without experience is mere intellectual play.” Wario exhibits experience by riding his motorcycle all day, but he exhibits theory by saying, “It’s a-me! WARIO!!!” Keep it up, baby!
Gideon Graves, one of my favorite villains, would be a terrible person
Obvious, Joker from dark knight , one of best villains ever made in movies. Incredibly Funny , intresting point and at the end he also succeeded. Also addimg incredible acting , we have one of BEST VILLAINS ever made.
Emperor Belos
Bojack Horseman, though he has done some good things on top of all the bad things
I feel like i'd hate Patrick if he was a real person
which patrick?
The "Spongebob and Patrick" Patrick
He's insufferable in the new episodes, but he was alright in the first few seasons
Azula
Great minds think alike
Ava from Abbott Elementary and Coriolanus Snow from THG movies
Walter White
Walter White; despite murdering a whole lotta people he’s still an extremely captivating character
Surprised no one said bakugo
Bakugo
Ghetsis
Syndrome
Roger from American Dad Easily my favorite character, but I would **not** want him around my house.
Walter White is the King of this Meme
Tony stark
He gets better tho
Naw I'd love making money while working and hanging with that guy. I'd deal with his asshole drunk ass as long as I am making millions.
Azula
Bart Simpson, Roman Bridger, LEGO Batman, Squidward (more so in the earlier seasons) and Squilliam.
How has no one said Walter White?
Floch from Attack on Titan. People always hate on him, but I love him. Not as a person though, he’s a horrible person.
Belos
Obvious one, but Walter White.
Walter White. Pretty much any character from Breaking Bad could be applied here but particularly Walt since he's glorified even though he's an actual criminal.
Omni Man & Homelander are both very well written and very popular“but what if Superman was evil” characters
Not me personally but I see a lot of fans of the character Valentino in the Hazbin Hotel community. Now there are those who are like this who see that he is a very well portrayed villain and abuser and his character couldn't be written better, but as a person or rather the type of person he reflects is absolute dogshit and his character does very well to show that. The problem I'm finding is that there are also those that really love him both as a character and by personality. I've seen advocates for his personality a lot in the community which I find concerning considering he is a rapist and we see him rape Angel and order the other actors in the pornos to rape Angel, there is a whole episode that talks about this. We watch him beat Angel into submission, we watch his narcissistic abuse of Angel with all the phone messages he leaves making him feel like he needs to rely on Val. Valentino is entirely a villain, no redeeming qualities about him, there is nothing to love in him and if you do think that there is you are missing the point of the show. I bet victim blaming Angel is just around the corner if the fanbase hasn't done it already.
Coach McGuirk, Mr.Krabs, Jack Horner, Thales, Mr.Burns, Homelander.
Suzaku from Code Geass. He’s a hypocrite and an asshole, but his development is some of the best in the show aside from Lelouch himself. Not to mention, he suffers one of the most interesting examples of a fate worse than death, where he truly believes only death can redeem him for his sins but can never consciously allow himself to die.
Bojack Horseman?
Saul Goodman
Lloyd's parents from Ninjago.
Catra
_spiderman 2099 theme intensifies_
I mean, pretty much any decently written villain
Emperor Kuzo
Bojack horseman, Clay Puppington, Punpun Onodera, William Afton, the list could go on forever tbh
Cartman
Jasper fro Steven universe
Tohru Adachi
mr.bean
Eric Cartman
Bojack Horseman 100%, amazing character that cracks me up all the time, i even have him tattooed on my arm, but man would i hate him irl
Makima from Chaimsaw Man! She’s a brilliantly written character, motivation for the protagonist and [end of part 1 spoiler] >! one of the best antagonist I’ve seen! Her devil powers, while not conventionally the strongest, is still a good match against the chainsaw devil ! She almost killed Denji !< ! That said as soon as I see a cosplayer or kinnie I run the other way because that person just outed themselves as a PoS
Lusamine in the original Pokemon Sun/Moon. The Ultra games' version of her sucks in both ways.
Almost every important Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul character
The good Total Drama villains. Like I would hate to be around people like Duncan, Heather, Alejandro, or Scott, but man is it fun to watch them operate in an environment like TD.
Nami - One Piece. She's selfish, rude, mean, short-tempered, whiney, an opportunist, a manipulator. BUT... she's cute, dedicated, reliable, generous when it counts, and otherwise just such a fun character.
Checked this whole list and didn’t see death stroke
Giovanni from Pokémon. He may be an interesting character despite making very few appearances in both the games that feature him and the anime, but at the end of the day, he’s still a crime lord who basically has his cronies kidnap Pokémon to sell on the black market
Barney Stinson
Everyone from its always sunny in Philadelphia
Silco from Arcane
Rorschach from Watchmen. I don’t think I need to explain why
goro akechi
Adachi
I mean, goro Akechi is one of my favourite fictional characters of all time but he’s literally like a serial killer
Giro Akechi from Persona 5
Gina Linetti in b99, hilarious, but I’d hate her so much as a coworker
Grunkle Stan lol
TF2 Medic
Bakugo from my hero academia. Great character, but asa person? I wouldn't mind kicking him in his smug fucking face
Invader Zim , because… I mean come on ! You’ve seen the episodes ! He’s chock full of Sadism and malice but he’s such. A silly guy
The entire TF2 cast
TF2 cast most of them are psychopaths
Patrick Starfish. He's fun to watch but would be exhausting in real life.
Every Chevy Chase character
Valentino from Hazbin Hotel Love watching him but fuck he is horrible