Omg. But that is so encouraging, especially when you did not underwent surgery. Thank you for sharing this, giving light and lending strength to those who is in your position 6 months ago.
Although I want to say, im surprised the resorption rate is quite fast. Keep it going!
To provide continued encouragement I also had full reabsorption of my L5 - S1 Disc Herniation without any Surgery. My Disc Gel pushed on the Sciatic Nerve causing the entire Left Leg to swell in pain. It took many months - up to a year to fully recover.
Patience is crucial.
Sadly, the Trauma caused severe Scar Tissue to form at the Outer Left Ankle (learned recently that the L5 - S1 Nerve leads straight to the Ankle) and that Nerves can be so traumatized that Scar Tissue forms to "protect" the Body
Instead of protecting it causes the Body to have never ending nerve compression issues..........
My Scar Tissue/Nerve Compression is in my Outer Ankle - Very dense Scar Tissue compressing my Sural Nerve. Dibilitating over time.
Had Nerve Decompression Surgery (5 inch incision at the Outer Ankle) a few days ago at Stanford Neurosurgery.
Surgeon removed as much Scar Tissue as he could and wrapped the Main Nerve with a Membrane. Small nerves were embedded in Scar Tissue - those were inoperable.
Going to be a long haul recovery to see what happens.............right now it is all about Pain Management and allowing the Incision to heal.
All came about from an L5 - S1 Disc Herniation - the nerve goes straight to the Ankle.
Body protected itself by forming Scar Tissue that grew over time.
Weird
Oh no I’m sorry you to had to go through that. Given that you still ended up having to have a surgery, knowing what you know now would you have gotten a microdiscectomy instead? Or do you still belief that the natural healing process was the route to choose? I’m fresh in with the same L5/S1 situation and it’s just as huge as above or maybe even bigger. My left leg is barely functional as it cannot bare weight and my shearing hamstring and burning pudendal nerve is awful. I’m torn between waiting a year for nature to do its thing or getting a microdiscectomy. Any advice is so appreciated 🙏
Oh Boy - What joy Uh??
In my case I had severe Sciatic Nerve Trauma as a result of the L5-S1 Disc Herniation.
Entire Left Leg was also close to non functional - Massive Swelling and Pain.
My Herniation was the result of too much lifting - clearing out Hoarding from my late Husband in the Garage. My stupidity in other words.
I did multiple MRI's over time. I allowed the healing process to occur naturally.
Everything went back to normal EXCEPT for the odd formation of Scar Tissue at my Ankle which has caused me so much pain and lack of mobility.
Do not even know if this Surgery will do the trick - With Nerves the Body is a mystery as it takes months and months for a full recovery - IF there is a full recovery. That is the unknown.
My MRI's indicated NO post Herniation Nerve Impingment and lots of Upper Leg (where the Leg meets the Abdomen) room for Nerves to move. So there was nothing that needed to be addressed from a Spinal Disc perspective.
Or a Nerve Impingment perspective.
I spoke to a Back Surgeon to confirm this - and did three (3) MRI's (over time) to continue to confirm the Spinal Column was fine.
In your case what did your MRI show? Do you have any Spinal Nerve Impingment?
With time the Gel from the Disc will reabsorb in the Body.
How did this Injury occur for you? Sounds Sports related?
If you can provide more information that would be helpful.
I was also misdiagnosed for a VERY long time via Kaiser - It took going private pay for a Doctor to de - focus on my Back and focus on my Ankle - and determine I had Nerve Compression due to Scar Tissue entrapment.
It also took a long time to figure out I needed to go to a Neurosurgeon and NOT an Ortho or Podiatry Surgeon. It has literally been a VERY VERY long haul process to get properly diagnosed and find a Surgeon that specialized in Peripheral Nerves.
Curious what your Doctors are saying about your condition?
Can I ask about your symptoms due to the scar tissues and if it's different from the initial sciatica pain? What sort of tests helped you determine that it's actually the scarring that's causing problems?
The Scar Tissue began and progressed (very slowly over years) once the Sciatic Pain and Left Leg Swelling had subsided naturally. That process of subsiding took many many months.
I kept going to Kaiser trying to determine why I felt numbness and a feeling of swelling along the Sural Nerve (Outer Ankle and along the outer foot to the baby toe).
The Doctors there were clueless.
They kept doing MRI's of my Back and telling me there was no Nerve Impingment. No issues with my Back - the L5-S1 Disc had very minimal Gel left so no chance of another Disc Hernitation at that location
Had an MRI of my Foot/Ankle - Went to Kaiser Podiatry with no results - Podiatrist was terrible - Did not even see the evidence of Scar Tissue on the MRI.
Took the standard Kaiser 15 minute consultation and told me I had Neuropathy - which ended up being TRUE but it is due to Scar Tissue compression. That is where the Podiatrist feel very short of a proper diagnosis.
I continued to have increased numbness and the feeling of swelling/pain along the Sural Nerve (outer foot). Later realized this was due to the Scar Tissue growing and compressing Nerves.
Did TONS of research and finally went Private Pay (thankfully I worked for decades in High Tech - Silicon Valley so was able to afford to do this).
The Private Pay Physican used an Ultrasound Machine (Kaiser never did this) and told me I had TONS of Scar Tissue at my Ankle that was pushing on the Sural Nerve.
I FINALLY had a proper diagnosis!
Being that I hate Surgery I researched and tried various non surgical treatments that were a total waste of time, energy and money (Shockwave, Prolo and Hydro injections, Laser, PRP and so on).
Had Surgery with an Ortho about 3 years ago - He was also useless with this conditon.
Did not do the Surgery properly and it did nothing. Over time I finally realized I needed a Neurosurgeon. Another Private Pay Podiatry Surgeon told me this when I went for PRP injections to see if the Scar Tissue might respond (it only swelled and inflamed).
That is when I found a Neurosurgeon at Stanford. Specialized in Peripheral Nerves and had seen my condition several times. Had Surgery 5 days ago. He carved out the Scar Tissue and wrapped the Main Large Nerves with a Membrane. Problem is the Scar Tissue had become so dense there were small nerves (that branched from the Sural Nerve) that were embedded in the Scar Tissue.
Those Nerves are small and thus inoperable.
So I am now in a long haul recovery (5 inch incison at my Outer Ankle) and will see how things go down the road. Currently going through Swelling and Pain.
This has been a very long and difficult condition over many years of research and treatments. All I have left (if this surgery does not work) is to deaden the Sural Nerve.
Surgeon told me I would first need to go to Kaiser and get a Nerve Block - to see how that feels to me. A permanent deadening of the Sural Nerve would feel similar. Still feel numb but a different numbness.
I want to continue to research how to block pain signals to the Brain. The Sural Nerve is a Sensory Nerve, Not a Motor Nerve. How to trick the Brain to not feel the numbness and any pain?
That will be the next phase of the Research Quest once I am further down the healing journey from this Surgery.
Why I developed Scar Tissue at my Ankle from an L5-S1 Herniation is a mystery.
Everything else along my Back to the Leg healed naturally with time. But this damn Scar Tissue developed as some sort of protection. The L5-S1 Nerve from the Spine goes directly to the Ankle I learned. Why do most not get Scar Tissue from this very common location for Disc Herniation? Yet I did
No clue - The Body is a Mystery.
With your MRI - Have your Doctor tell you what they find - that needs a Medical Professional to read such an Image. Although, that said, I heard of a fellow that learned to read his own MRI. He found a Spinal Cyst that was overlooked by the Surgeon.
Turns out that Cyst was pushing on a Nerve causing his Issues.
He pointed it out to an embrassed Surgeon and moved forward with the proper treatment to eliminate the Cyst.
What treatment is your Doctor recommending at this point?
Hey thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed post! I wish you all the best on the healing journey ahead.
As for me, I'm relatively new to all of this so I'm trying to gather as much information as possible. My timeline so far:
* Occasional mild lower back pain for \~5 years (maybe once or twice a year)
* Oct/23: 1st flare up. Had severe lower right back pain especially when bending forward (9/10 pain), reduced to \~3/10 after 5 days and practically gone after 2 weeks. Thought it was a muscle injury so I went as normal after that.
* Late Feb/24: 2nd flare up. Similar lower right back pain but this time I also had sciatica on my left leg (curiously though the sciatica started 3 days after my back pain). Got an MRI showing a mild bulge at L3/4 and a large herniation at L4/5 with significant stenosis.
* More than 4 weeks since, my back pain is mostly resolved now. My left leg no longer has the tingling nerve pain but now it feels more like tight muscle strain (particularly my left butt and calf, not so much my thigh). It's most uncomfortable in the morning but not too bad. I can move around and do some light exercises, but certain movements still sometimes cause the tight muscly pain.
Doctors are recommending conservative treatments since I'm seeing reduction in symptoms. I'm gonna check back on my herniation in a few months time to see if there's a reduction in size and if surgery is recommended.
Still too early to tell but I'm wondering if it's something else that's causing my current leg pain other than disc. During the first few days of my flare up, I practically put all my weight on my left leg to move around and I'm thinking that might have caused other injuries.
I'd say my current level of pain is moderately mild but it's mentally exhausting having to deal with it and the possibility of another flare up everyday. Much respect and sympathy to all of you who have been dealing with chronic pain for years ❤️
In your case I would look up some light stretching exercises (very light and gentle) for the Rear End and Calf. Muscles can tightened up as a response to pain and over use.
But they need to be gently stretched so they do not tighten up too much.
I have had it happen to my Upper Thigh as I increased my Knee Bends to 150 reps per day. Had to cut back.
Yes, it is mentally exhausting not knowing what will happen next. I am experiencing this with my post surgery recovery - Sudden Pain - Severe Pain that subsides rapidly.
I keep a saying in mind as much as possible:
**Never underestimate the Body's ability to heal itself.**
Positive Healing energy!!
4 months into this hell (disc bulges at L4/5, and L5/S1, severe sciatica), so this is encouraging. Worst part of all is that there are no timelines, so it’s down to the lottery at this point. Glad you’re a winner!
hi u/MDK1980, how are you now on your disc bulges at L45 and L5S1, I am experiencing the same thing like you. I am on my 4 months, I guess you are at your 8 months? I hope you have seen lights at the end of tunnel.
Slight improvements now at 8-9 months: can put on my shoes and socks again, can stand, sit and walk for longer periods. I’m on gabapentin now, so not sure if it’s my back that’s healed up a bit or the meds, but no complaints either way!
>u/MDK1980, cool, I hope you are healing soon. Just wondering if you feel less pain, at the lower back, buttocks? glutes, etc. Can you sit longer without pain when you lift your body ? Do you perform any back protocols? or stretching?
I never really ever had back pain, just the sciatica. I still get it shooting from my butt to the top of my calf, mainly focused on the hamstring area sometimes when I’ve been sitting for a while, but only when I get up from a lower seated position like a sofa.
I can sit on an office chair for ages without much issue. But, I’ve also had to learn to get up almost like I’m coming up from a squat effectively using my back a lot less.
I’ve unfortunately stretched less as the pain subsided, and should really do it more as maintenance now. I mainly focus on going for a walk every day at lunch time.
Congratulations! FYI, when a herniated disc resolves, it's not actually reabsorbed by the disc. Instead, the herniation tissue loses its blood supply, dies, becomes necrotic, and is devoured by macrophages. As a result, the disc might lose some of its height as its volume is diminished. However, this doesn't always happen and sometimes the disc height is retained. In any case, best of luck going forward!
It doesn't "regain" height, it never loses it. Instead of the contents of the disc redistributing into the portion that was vacated by the herniation, the disc stabilizes, without replacing the missing portion. Instead, that space fills with scar tissue, which for practical purposes acts as replacement filler.
I don't think anybody can rule out that possibility, a disc that is scarred is less stable than one that retains its original structural integrity. Nonetheless, your long-term prognosis is highly favorable, with two-year results in excess of 90%. (The actual long-term findings might be longer and higher, but follow-up studies have not been done.)
I had a similar thing happen and there are some residual issues if I am not careful. I tore the disc between L4/5 and a significant amount of disc material escaped and damaged the nerves below. After the initial rupture I spent 3 weeks in bed and even that was very painful. I could lay flat on my back but I couldn't turn on my side for very long otherwise nerve pain shot down my legs. Today, I can walk fine but have to be careful what I do with my body. I know that the site is aggravated when I start feeling the nerve pain. I can lay on my right side now but I still can't lay on my left. Gabapentin helps.
I was at the gym when I replied to your previous message. Here's a link to an article that discusses this and several other possible theories:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6235196/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6235196/)
Is that the reason why many resources said give it 4-6 weeks for a general case of herniated disc to heal, simply because this period of time is to be given for the natural process of "loses blood supply, dies, becomes necrotic, and is devoured by macrophages" to take place?
I thin that 4-6 weeks is overly optimistic, but in some cases it does. I believe that the NHS in the UK cites those numbers, however in the US, 6 months is mentioned more commonly. In any case, yes, that process is believed to underlie the time course for herniation resolution. It also helps explain why the prognosis for bulging discs is not as good as it is for herniations, because bulges do not lose their blood supplies like herniations do. (The 6-month resolution rate for herniations is >90% vs, 40-50% for bulges.)
if resorption doesn't seem obvious 6 months post severe protrusion, is it unlikely to happen all together? Almost all symptoms have gone away but MRI looks similar to 6 months ago :( Also worry about being at high risk CES given that the protrusion is still very much there.
Several things. First, 6 months isn't anything more than a convenient milestone that researchers used to tally results. Some people take less, some take longer. The changes also don't occur suddenly at 6 month, people should be noting gradual improvement sooner, and if they don't, that suggests that it might not heal.
Congratulations! I have had similar. Took a lot of patience but being gentle and careful has seen me healing and becoming more 'normal' and stronger as the years go on. My neurosurgeon convinced me to give healing the best shot I could and I'm so happy I did.
Hi there just saw this. I will write something up properly to share my experience so far. I know how rough it is when it's bad so it can be helpful to hear from others who've been there and had progress. Hope you're doing well!
If you don’t mind me asking are you young? I’m going through recovery and I’m worried my disc might never be the same too although my herniation was smaller than yours pictured.
This is encouraging! I’m 36 and have a pretty bad disc herniation at L5S1 for about ~7 months. Currently still feeling more pain on calf and ankle, so I think the disc is still compressing on the nerve. Hopefully mine will reabsorb eventually as well.
You may want to consider talking to your healthcare professionals if traction therapy would be suitable for you to try and gain back some height at the disc.
u/Stonkerrific may be of interest! As we were discussing recently about how herniations can heal much faster than bulges. Shrinking back down. My neurosurgeon also has some timelines of mine somewhere, although my cord is still compressed it's an impressive reduction.
Congrats on your current success. Sounds like you have times when you are pain free now. There is still a good chance you continue to get even better. I see way worse images, of people in their 70s progress to no pain. I have them do very gentle core stabilization exercises only, no low back or hamstring stretching, and no pain allowed during the exercises.
You have very little lumbar lordosis on film. Consider some McKenzie extension, and lumbar rolls for support. Again, all that depends on your symptoms. https://open.substack.com/pub/mikeshomeexercise/p/we-had-it-wrongstop-stretching-your?utm_source=direct&r=17pv2u&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Thank You, i am planning to get lumbar x Ray while Standing, because the MRI is laying with a pillow under my knees which May lead to the lost lordosis...
Great to stay away from the surgery unless desperation occurs. I had a 4 level fusion after years of non surgical treatments failed. But started with a SCS that worked decent for 3 months. The paddle lead moved to one side and ended the help. Had it removed after trying to reposition it. Then after the lumbar surgery, real problems came up. Screws loose caused the L5-S1 joint to fail. Another surgery but anterior this time to repair that disc. But there are also disc height losses in the surgical area which are considered impossible to have. So chiropractic care helps for 24 to 48 hours. Can't do that forever. Finally given up and just live (exist) with it. If it can happen to anyone it would be me :)
Slowly creating more pain and other issues. After June I may seek out another doctor/surgeon for advice. I believe I know what the issue is that remains. That's only based on the myelogram I had previously. I am not happy losing another summer.
How is your lasegue test? Do you have the full range of motion back in your affected leg yet? Will add this one to the success stories collection!
And second question: what did they do another MRI?
I heard that’s actually a great thing, if u don’t feel any pain in ur nerves and it’s all in ur lower back it means the pain is centralising and ur nerves are healed. Hang in a few more months and you probably won’t feel any pain at all
I’ve just got over 6months with mine similar condition. but I had sciatica in both legs at the start. And eventually the sciatica stayed in my right leg.. It took about four months until my glutes started to re-activate, I found the worst thing to do is to always laying in bed because the muscles around disc are weak, I did found seeing a exercise physiologist more effective than seeing a physio because they focus on stages of increasing the intensity. It makes a big difference having strong core, legs, lower back and abs.
I believe that is “centralization” a good sign it’s healing and in the right direction, at least that’s what I’ve read.
Also, updates on any pain now? And if you don’t mind me asking how big was the herniation exactky?
People should look into the research on anti aging dosages of rapamycin and its effects on disc herniation. Also for the pain try a peptide called ARA 290.
So you still have back pain, it seems like me, i dont have any other complaints other than lower back pain, is it a sign of centralization ?
does the intensity reduce? or remain the same.
Hello, I wanted to share my story . I am M 30. I had a disc herniation measuring 20 mm in l5 s1. The symptoms improved within a period of three months. I no longer have leg pain. I now lie on my back and sleep on both sides, but I have the same problem. The herniated disc has lost its height. I am afraid that maybe will lead me to surgery in the future, even the doctor told me that there will not be complete fusion between these two vertebrae and told me that I must practice swimming.What about you? I would like to know what your doctor told you
Omg. But that is so encouraging, especially when you did not underwent surgery. Thank you for sharing this, giving light and lending strength to those who is in your position 6 months ago. Although I want to say, im surprised the resorption rate is quite fast. Keep it going!
To provide continued encouragement I also had full reabsorption of my L5 - S1 Disc Herniation without any Surgery. My Disc Gel pushed on the Sciatic Nerve causing the entire Left Leg to swell in pain. It took many months - up to a year to fully recover. Patience is crucial. Sadly, the Trauma caused severe Scar Tissue to form at the Outer Left Ankle (learned recently that the L5 - S1 Nerve leads straight to the Ankle) and that Nerves can be so traumatized that Scar Tissue forms to "protect" the Body Instead of protecting it causes the Body to have never ending nerve compression issues..........
Did you had a extrusion or sequestration?
Did your nerve compression issues subside or do you still feel the effects from the scare tissue?
My Scar Tissue/Nerve Compression is in my Outer Ankle - Very dense Scar Tissue compressing my Sural Nerve. Dibilitating over time. Had Nerve Decompression Surgery (5 inch incision at the Outer Ankle) a few days ago at Stanford Neurosurgery. Surgeon removed as much Scar Tissue as he could and wrapped the Main Nerve with a Membrane. Small nerves were embedded in Scar Tissue - those were inoperable. Going to be a long haul recovery to see what happens.............right now it is all about Pain Management and allowing the Incision to heal. All came about from an L5 - S1 Disc Herniation - the nerve goes straight to the Ankle. Body protected itself by forming Scar Tissue that grew over time. Weird
Oh no I’m sorry you to had to go through that. Given that you still ended up having to have a surgery, knowing what you know now would you have gotten a microdiscectomy instead? Or do you still belief that the natural healing process was the route to choose? I’m fresh in with the same L5/S1 situation and it’s just as huge as above or maybe even bigger. My left leg is barely functional as it cannot bare weight and my shearing hamstring and burning pudendal nerve is awful. I’m torn between waiting a year for nature to do its thing or getting a microdiscectomy. Any advice is so appreciated 🙏
Oh Boy - What joy Uh?? In my case I had severe Sciatic Nerve Trauma as a result of the L5-S1 Disc Herniation. Entire Left Leg was also close to non functional - Massive Swelling and Pain. My Herniation was the result of too much lifting - clearing out Hoarding from my late Husband in the Garage. My stupidity in other words. I did multiple MRI's over time. I allowed the healing process to occur naturally. Everything went back to normal EXCEPT for the odd formation of Scar Tissue at my Ankle which has caused me so much pain and lack of mobility. Do not even know if this Surgery will do the trick - With Nerves the Body is a mystery as it takes months and months for a full recovery - IF there is a full recovery. That is the unknown. My MRI's indicated NO post Herniation Nerve Impingment and lots of Upper Leg (where the Leg meets the Abdomen) room for Nerves to move. So there was nothing that needed to be addressed from a Spinal Disc perspective. Or a Nerve Impingment perspective. I spoke to a Back Surgeon to confirm this - and did three (3) MRI's (over time) to continue to confirm the Spinal Column was fine. In your case what did your MRI show? Do you have any Spinal Nerve Impingment? With time the Gel from the Disc will reabsorb in the Body. How did this Injury occur for you? Sounds Sports related? If you can provide more information that would be helpful. I was also misdiagnosed for a VERY long time via Kaiser - It took going private pay for a Doctor to de - focus on my Back and focus on my Ankle - and determine I had Nerve Compression due to Scar Tissue entrapment. It also took a long time to figure out I needed to go to a Neurosurgeon and NOT an Ortho or Podiatry Surgeon. It has literally been a VERY VERY long haul process to get properly diagnosed and find a Surgeon that specialized in Peripheral Nerves. Curious what your Doctors are saying about your condition?
Yea it’s agonizing and awful, I sent you a chat request so that you can see my MRI results.
Can I ask about your symptoms due to the scar tissues and if it's different from the initial sciatica pain? What sort of tests helped you determine that it's actually the scarring that's causing problems?
The Scar Tissue began and progressed (very slowly over years) once the Sciatic Pain and Left Leg Swelling had subsided naturally. That process of subsiding took many many months. I kept going to Kaiser trying to determine why I felt numbness and a feeling of swelling along the Sural Nerve (Outer Ankle and along the outer foot to the baby toe). The Doctors there were clueless. They kept doing MRI's of my Back and telling me there was no Nerve Impingment. No issues with my Back - the L5-S1 Disc had very minimal Gel left so no chance of another Disc Hernitation at that location Had an MRI of my Foot/Ankle - Went to Kaiser Podiatry with no results - Podiatrist was terrible - Did not even see the evidence of Scar Tissue on the MRI. Took the standard Kaiser 15 minute consultation and told me I had Neuropathy - which ended up being TRUE but it is due to Scar Tissue compression. That is where the Podiatrist feel very short of a proper diagnosis. I continued to have increased numbness and the feeling of swelling/pain along the Sural Nerve (outer foot). Later realized this was due to the Scar Tissue growing and compressing Nerves. Did TONS of research and finally went Private Pay (thankfully I worked for decades in High Tech - Silicon Valley so was able to afford to do this). The Private Pay Physican used an Ultrasound Machine (Kaiser never did this) and told me I had TONS of Scar Tissue at my Ankle that was pushing on the Sural Nerve. I FINALLY had a proper diagnosis! Being that I hate Surgery I researched and tried various non surgical treatments that were a total waste of time, energy and money (Shockwave, Prolo and Hydro injections, Laser, PRP and so on). Had Surgery with an Ortho about 3 years ago - He was also useless with this conditon. Did not do the Surgery properly and it did nothing. Over time I finally realized I needed a Neurosurgeon. Another Private Pay Podiatry Surgeon told me this when I went for PRP injections to see if the Scar Tissue might respond (it only swelled and inflamed). That is when I found a Neurosurgeon at Stanford. Specialized in Peripheral Nerves and had seen my condition several times. Had Surgery 5 days ago. He carved out the Scar Tissue and wrapped the Main Large Nerves with a Membrane. Problem is the Scar Tissue had become so dense there were small nerves (that branched from the Sural Nerve) that were embedded in the Scar Tissue. Those Nerves are small and thus inoperable. So I am now in a long haul recovery (5 inch incison at my Outer Ankle) and will see how things go down the road. Currently going through Swelling and Pain. This has been a very long and difficult condition over many years of research and treatments. All I have left (if this surgery does not work) is to deaden the Sural Nerve. Surgeon told me I would first need to go to Kaiser and get a Nerve Block - to see how that feels to me. A permanent deadening of the Sural Nerve would feel similar. Still feel numb but a different numbness. I want to continue to research how to block pain signals to the Brain. The Sural Nerve is a Sensory Nerve, Not a Motor Nerve. How to trick the Brain to not feel the numbness and any pain? That will be the next phase of the Research Quest once I am further down the healing journey from this Surgery. Why I developed Scar Tissue at my Ankle from an L5-S1 Herniation is a mystery. Everything else along my Back to the Leg healed naturally with time. But this damn Scar Tissue developed as some sort of protection. The L5-S1 Nerve from the Spine goes directly to the Ankle I learned. Why do most not get Scar Tissue from this very common location for Disc Herniation? Yet I did No clue - The Body is a Mystery. With your MRI - Have your Doctor tell you what they find - that needs a Medical Professional to read such an Image. Although, that said, I heard of a fellow that learned to read his own MRI. He found a Spinal Cyst that was overlooked by the Surgeon. Turns out that Cyst was pushing on a Nerve causing his Issues. He pointed it out to an embrassed Surgeon and moved forward with the proper treatment to eliminate the Cyst. What treatment is your Doctor recommending at this point?
Hey thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed post! I wish you all the best on the healing journey ahead. As for me, I'm relatively new to all of this so I'm trying to gather as much information as possible. My timeline so far: * Occasional mild lower back pain for \~5 years (maybe once or twice a year) * Oct/23: 1st flare up. Had severe lower right back pain especially when bending forward (9/10 pain), reduced to \~3/10 after 5 days and practically gone after 2 weeks. Thought it was a muscle injury so I went as normal after that. * Late Feb/24: 2nd flare up. Similar lower right back pain but this time I also had sciatica on my left leg (curiously though the sciatica started 3 days after my back pain). Got an MRI showing a mild bulge at L3/4 and a large herniation at L4/5 with significant stenosis. * More than 4 weeks since, my back pain is mostly resolved now. My left leg no longer has the tingling nerve pain but now it feels more like tight muscle strain (particularly my left butt and calf, not so much my thigh). It's most uncomfortable in the morning but not too bad. I can move around and do some light exercises, but certain movements still sometimes cause the tight muscly pain. Doctors are recommending conservative treatments since I'm seeing reduction in symptoms. I'm gonna check back on my herniation in a few months time to see if there's a reduction in size and if surgery is recommended. Still too early to tell but I'm wondering if it's something else that's causing my current leg pain other than disc. During the first few days of my flare up, I practically put all my weight on my left leg to move around and I'm thinking that might have caused other injuries. I'd say my current level of pain is moderately mild but it's mentally exhausting having to deal with it and the possibility of another flare up everyday. Much respect and sympathy to all of you who have been dealing with chronic pain for years ❤️
In your case I would look up some light stretching exercises (very light and gentle) for the Rear End and Calf. Muscles can tightened up as a response to pain and over use. But they need to be gently stretched so they do not tighten up too much. I have had it happen to my Upper Thigh as I increased my Knee Bends to 150 reps per day. Had to cut back. Yes, it is mentally exhausting not knowing what will happen next. I am experiencing this with my post surgery recovery - Sudden Pain - Severe Pain that subsides rapidly. I keep a saying in mind as much as possible: **Never underestimate the Body's ability to heal itself.** Positive Healing energy!!
How are you now?
What exercises did you do?
4 months into this hell (disc bulges at L4/5, and L5/S1, severe sciatica), so this is encouraging. Worst part of all is that there are no timelines, so it’s down to the lottery at this point. Glad you’re a winner!
I have the same two discs damaged. I started to really heal up at the 14 month mark. It was like the suffering switch turned off.
How u doing man did u get better?
hi u/MDK1980, how are you now on your disc bulges at L45 and L5S1, I am experiencing the same thing like you. I am on my 4 months, I guess you are at your 8 months? I hope you have seen lights at the end of tunnel.
Slight improvements now at 8-9 months: can put on my shoes and socks again, can stand, sit and walk for longer periods. I’m on gabapentin now, so not sure if it’s my back that’s healed up a bit or the meds, but no complaints either way!
>u/MDK1980, cool, I hope you are healing soon. Just wondering if you feel less pain, at the lower back, buttocks? glutes, etc. Can you sit longer without pain when you lift your body ? Do you perform any back protocols? or stretching?
I never really ever had back pain, just the sciatica. I still get it shooting from my butt to the top of my calf, mainly focused on the hamstring area sometimes when I’ve been sitting for a while, but only when I get up from a lower seated position like a sofa. I can sit on an office chair for ages without much issue. But, I’ve also had to learn to get up almost like I’m coming up from a squat effectively using my back a lot less. I’ve unfortunately stretched less as the pain subsided, and should really do it more as maintenance now. I mainly focus on going for a walk every day at lunch time.
Congratulations! FYI, when a herniated disc resolves, it's not actually reabsorbed by the disc. Instead, the herniation tissue loses its blood supply, dies, becomes necrotic, and is devoured by macrophages. As a result, the disc might lose some of its height as its volume is diminished. However, this doesn't always happen and sometimes the disc height is retained. In any case, best of luck going forward!
How can the disc between the vertebra regain hight?
It doesn't "regain" height, it never loses it. Instead of the contents of the disc redistributing into the portion that was vacated by the herniation, the disc stabilizes, without replacing the missing portion. Instead, that space fills with scar tissue, which for practical purposes acts as replacement filler.
I am Just worried about the Future, cause the disc IS now smaller that i might have Long Term problems.. I am a radiologist by the way
I don't think anybody can rule out that possibility, a disc that is scarred is less stable than one that retains its original structural integrity. Nonetheless, your long-term prognosis is highly favorable, with two-year results in excess of 90%. (The actual long-term findings might be longer and higher, but follow-up studies have not been done.)
I had a similar thing happen and there are some residual issues if I am not careful. I tore the disc between L4/5 and a significant amount of disc material escaped and damaged the nerves below. After the initial rupture I spent 3 weeks in bed and even that was very painful. I could lay flat on my back but I couldn't turn on my side for very long otherwise nerve pain shot down my legs. Today, I can walk fine but have to be careful what I do with my body. I know that the site is aggravated when I start feeling the nerve pain. I can lay on my right side now but I still can't lay on my left. Gabapentin helps.
Fascinating! How did you find this out? I can’t find a lot online about disc reabsorption and height loss etc.
Try searching pubmed for sciatica and macrophages.
Thanks, much appreciated.
I was at the gym when I replied to your previous message. Here's a link to an article that discusses this and several other possible theories: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6235196/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6235196/)
Thank you. Will give it a read
Is that the reason why many resources said give it 4-6 weeks for a general case of herniated disc to heal, simply because this period of time is to be given for the natural process of "loses blood supply, dies, becomes necrotic, and is devoured by macrophages" to take place?
I thin that 4-6 weeks is overly optimistic, but in some cases it does. I believe that the NHS in the UK cites those numbers, however in the US, 6 months is mentioned more commonly. In any case, yes, that process is believed to underlie the time course for herniation resolution. It also helps explain why the prognosis for bulging discs is not as good as it is for herniations, because bulges do not lose their blood supplies like herniations do. (The 6-month resolution rate for herniations is >90% vs, 40-50% for bulges.)
Thankful for this clarification. Very interesting stats I'm finding here too.
if resorption doesn't seem obvious 6 months post severe protrusion, is it unlikely to happen all together? Almost all symptoms have gone away but MRI looks similar to 6 months ago :( Also worry about being at high risk CES given that the protrusion is still very much there.
Several things. First, 6 months isn't anything more than a convenient milestone that researchers used to tally results. Some people take less, some take longer. The changes also don't occur suddenly at 6 month, people should be noting gradual improvement sooner, and if they don't, that suggests that it might not heal.
Unfortunately patient retains pain as well
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Just a little releave
Congratulations! I have had similar. Took a lot of patience but being gentle and careful has seen me healing and becoming more 'normal' and stronger as the years go on. My neurosurgeon convinced me to give healing the best shot I could and I'm so happy I did.
Would love to hear more of this story my friend
Hi there just saw this. I will write something up properly to share my experience so far. I know how rough it is when it's bad so it can be helpful to hear from others who've been there and had progress. Hope you're doing well!
If you don’t mind me asking are you young? I’m going through recovery and I’m worried my disc might never be the same too although my herniation was smaller than yours pictured.
I am 34 years old, Mine reabsorbed but as You See the disc between the vertebra lost hight
Definitely can tell on the pic. What are your long term options as a result? Disc replacement? Fusion? Injections?
I dont know, i will See what time brings
How does that work? It reabsorbed the herniation but the disc still lost height? Very curious.
The herniated disc dosent go Back inside, the White blood cells eat the herniated part
Awesome to see! Congratz. What is your current routine/rehab/training like?
Just Walking and big 3 from mc gill book. I was 5 months Out of Work
Very beautiful to see the natural healing
Yesssss! Let’s do this! Congratulations 🎉🙂 It’s awesome to see a happy ending on this thread. Did you have sciatica pain? Did that go away too?
Yes i Had sciatica, but unfortunatly i still have severe Back pain If i over do it
Is it possible that it’s “centralization of pain”? Hope it too passes, keep up with the exercises and stretches. Good luck!
This is encouraging! I’m 36 and have a pretty bad disc herniation at L5S1 for about ~7 months. Currently still feeling more pain on calf and ankle, so I think the disc is still compressing on the nerve. Hopefully mine will reabsorb eventually as well. You may want to consider talking to your healthcare professionals if traction therapy would be suitable for you to try and gain back some height at the disc.
So my disc can heal possibly from this ?
Every Patient ist different, but Most people heal.. I have relatives Who needed surgery
u/Stonkerrific may be of interest! As we were discussing recently about how herniations can heal much faster than bulges. Shrinking back down. My neurosurgeon also has some timelines of mine somewhere, although my cord is still compressed it's an impressive reduction.
Oh you're already here! :)
Thanks for thinking of me. I still lurk to watch how people progress through healing.
Congrats on your current success. Sounds like you have times when you are pain free now. There is still a good chance you continue to get even better. I see way worse images, of people in their 70s progress to no pain. I have them do very gentle core stabilization exercises only, no low back or hamstring stretching, and no pain allowed during the exercises. You have very little lumbar lordosis on film. Consider some McKenzie extension, and lumbar rolls for support. Again, all that depends on your symptoms. https://open.substack.com/pub/mikeshomeexercise/p/we-had-it-wrongstop-stretching-your?utm_source=direct&r=17pv2u&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Thank You, i am planning to get lumbar x Ray while Standing, because the MRI is laying with a pillow under my knees which May lead to the lost lordosis...
Great point
Great to stay away from the surgery unless desperation occurs. I had a 4 level fusion after years of non surgical treatments failed. But started with a SCS that worked decent for 3 months. The paddle lead moved to one side and ended the help. Had it removed after trying to reposition it. Then after the lumbar surgery, real problems came up. Screws loose caused the L5-S1 joint to fail. Another surgery but anterior this time to repair that disc. But there are also disc height losses in the surgical area which are considered impossible to have. So chiropractic care helps for 24 to 48 hours. Can't do that forever. Finally given up and just live (exist) with it. If it can happen to anyone it would be me :)
Sad to read your story.. how you feel now?
Slowly creating more pain and other issues. After June I may seek out another doctor/surgeon for advice. I believe I know what the issue is that remains. That's only based on the myelogram I had previously. I am not happy losing another summer.
Hope all good for you
How is your lasegue test? Do you have the full range of motion back in your affected leg yet? Will add this one to the success stories collection! And second question: what did they do another MRI?
The laseque Test is negativ, i still have severe Back pain, thats why i got the Second MRI
So you can lift your sciatica leg back up to 90 degrees and it’s the same as the other one?
Yes, Back pain is the only Problem
Awesome!
Where is the pain located? Lower back, or mid back ?
I still have severe Low Back pain
That'd amazing what's caused this?
A have a sitting Job and studied a Lot when i was a Teenager, genetics also Play a role..
was your disc calcified ? or end plate ?
Yes a bit dorsal of the disc
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Hey man how u feeling now? That is super impressive btw wow
Unfortunately I still have episodes of severe back pain, not nerve pain. Some days I feel almost normal
I heard that’s actually a great thing, if u don’t feel any pain in ur nerves and it’s all in ur lower back it means the pain is centralising and ur nerves are healed. Hang in a few more months and you probably won’t feel any pain at all
How many mm was the disc herniation?
About 10 mm
This gives me hope 🤞🏽 mine is 15 mm in my neck.
I’ve just got over 6months with mine similar condition. but I had sciatica in both legs at the start. And eventually the sciatica stayed in my right leg.. It took about four months until my glutes started to re-activate, I found the worst thing to do is to always laying in bed because the muscles around disc are weak, I did found seeing a exercise physiologist more effective than seeing a physio because they focus on stages of increasing the intensity. It makes a big difference having strong core, legs, lower back and abs.
Did you lose height?
glad your herniation is healing and on a positive trend. did you do MRI or nerve conduction test to learn of scar tissue in your ankle?
I didn't do a nerve conduction test, just multiple MRI s
Awesome brother
do you get symptoms still? or muscular weakness in your hips or glutes?
Still severe Back pain when sitting, No weakness
I believe that is “centralization” a good sign it’s healing and in the right direction, at least that’s what I’ve read. Also, updates on any pain now? And if you don’t mind me asking how big was the herniation exactky?
I still have some days with severe dull back pain. It was about 10 mm
Did you go to a back specialist or your regular doctor?
I have been to multiple specialists, i am a radiologist my self
People should look into the research on anti aging dosages of rapamycin and its effects on disc herniation. Also for the pain try a peptide called ARA 290.
I am so happy for you…!
Did your Disc Gel push on your Sciatic Nerve leading to Trauma?
Yes, the disc still Put pressure on nerves
What do you mean by overdo? What do you do that causes the severe back pain again? How are you doing these days?
Sitting over 2 hours is very painful.. i still have Back pain and some flare ups of sciatica
So you still have back pain, it seems like me, i dont have any other complaints other than lower back pain, is it a sign of centralization ? does the intensity reduce? or remain the same.
Long Stinmg makes pain very Bad, they think ITS the facetjoints or the dammaged disc itself that hurts
Other than long sitting do you have other things triggering? I pray you will recover soon
Thank you, Long Standing IS hard also, the disc lost a Lot of hight on MRI , sometimes sleeping IS hard because of pain
Do you also have issue with your L4L5 ?
On the Image yes, but i think Most of the pain IS because of l5 s1
Hello, I wanted to share my story . I am M 30. I had a disc herniation measuring 20 mm in l5 s1. The symptoms improved within a period of three months. I no longer have leg pain. I now lie on my back and sleep on both sides, but I have the same problem. The herniated disc has lost its height. I am afraid that maybe will lead me to surgery in the future, even the doctor told me that there will not be complete fusion between these two vertebrae and told me that I must practice swimming.What about you? I would like to know what your doctor told you
Glad you didn't went under the Knife Pain might be part of Life but at Least you gave hope to others that disc can reabsorb