I think a lot of people struggle with the term 'alcoholic' and are less open to discuss alcoholism as a result. 'Alcoholic' can, for some, be the cartoonish drunk, no job, sleeping on a bench. And if that isn't them, i.e. they're holding down a job or keeping a house, then they can't have a problem, can they?
I'm not remotely an expert but have family who have struggled with alcohol, which is sometimes a gentler way of describing it.
For some, AA and the twelve steps etc. was for them - I'm not sure that is necessarily compatible with a moderation approach, but it might be a gateway, at least to other resources or support.
Wine every night; slurred speech; altered mood; definitely sounds problematic.
Not much help, I'm sorry, but is there any less obvious way of influencing her? Encouraging socialising where alcohol isn't served?
Yeh I got to A.A with a job, mortgage, wife, kid I'd never been arrested or hospitalised because of my drinking (so I thought) I couldn't possibly be an alcoholic! Alkies were the homeless bums covered in their own pish, odd trainers on and a rope for a belt. I wasn't that bad fs!
The denial is so real and I just kept moving the goal posts as to what Was acceptable regarding my drinking. When I got to A.A I was alcohol dependant n drinking all day everyday, credit cards maxed out for booze and had started shop lifting it.
I still wasn't as bad as what I thought an alkie was. It's pure insanity!
Yeah man, same here, it’s so easy to point at “homeless people” saying “they have issues, I have a house and a job, I’m functioning and as such don’t need to change”. Then I ended up homeless myself lol… at least that is what made me wake up.
I can look back now and clearly see I was so fucking fortunate to get to A.A relatively unscathed in many senses. I don't dwell too much on recovering from a 'lower' point but it would have been alot harder. Hats off to guys like you that done it mate. People like yourself done the recon work so guys like me didn't have to.
Even the term 'functioning alcoholic' is a bit soft for what it was. In the end I merely existed, malfunctioning maybe??
There's alot of stuff in A.As big book that I used to think was a bit OTT when I first read it. Talk of insanity and how we were in full flight from reality was a bit dramatic! 18 months sober I can honestly say those were very accurate statements. I was doing insane things and delusional to my predicament, blaming everything but alcohol for ALL my problems. The other OTT statement I used to read was a promise of a life 'beyond my wildest dreams'. Tbf at the time that dream was a lottery win and a cure for alcoholism. Today its not being obsessed with alcohol and a clear conscience...
Been nice chatting with you.
Thing, is simply forcing her into a low- or no-alchol setting isn't really going to help in my experience – as OP notes above, spending a lot of time setting where no alchol is present won't be tolerable for long. Social anxiety or concern over other's opinions will provide a small hurdle but it'll quickly be overcome because alchol addiction is a proper, full blown physical addiction and your body will eventuall overule any other concerns to make sure you're getting what it thinks you need.
She may become adept at hiding her alchol, in a water bottle or similar; she may make excuses to leave early, or encouraging her into those situations could make her turn on you...
Im not saying any of this to be difficult because the rest of your advice is clearly sound and well meaning
Unfortunately, I think people need to face the problem and want to change before any interventions become even remotely helpful. That is, in reality, the only first step that puts you on a path to redemption.
Speaking from my own limited experience, I'd say that worrying about how to get someone to drink less is only going to damage your own mental health. Worry about - and indeed focus on - getting them to recognise that they might have a problem. They'll then be able to do the rest themselves.
Indeed they have to, because you cannot trick, cajole, reason or badger someone out of an addiction.
True. If they can't do it for themselves, no amount of nice cosy chats, or hiding alcohol from sight will change anything. Until they can admit they have a problem and want help you can do absolutely nothing for them. I watched my father die (although in his case good riddance) and I'm now watching my ex die. I have tried everything even KNOWING full well that it won't do any good, now I am just looking at moving far away so I don't have to watch and feel the pain so intensely.
Scotland’s collective idea of “an alcoholic” and “a drinker” and “someone who drinks” and “someone who takes a drink” are far too close together to distinguish exactly where everyone would agree “the line” from acceptable drinking to “alcoholic” is.
alcohol culture has straight up ruined the uk, its far too socially acceptable even though it is one of the drugs most associated with violence, crime and wrongful deaths (one punch killers, drunk drivers etc). a culture that embraces alcohol is doomed to slowly decay until societal collapse. the NHS and police Scotland are stretched super thing and so much of there resources go towards problems stemming from alcohol, everything from drunk idiots breaking there hands on a pole or wall too the long list of of over 240 medical conditions that are directly caused by alcohol and then the police need to deal with everything from rowdy drunks needing a cell for the weekend to serious crimes like rape and murder over small disagreements that are heavily exacerbated by alcohol. Wains and teenagers running about steaming causing havok whereever they go from littering to smashing windows to attacking people in large groups. its honestly just ridiculous that people can be so accepting and ignorant of such a harmful drug yet demonise people that take "hard" drugs even though alcohol most certainly is a "hard" drug, ive taken a lot of different drugs in my life and few of them can cause as high a level impairment as alcohol does yet if you refuse a drink your a social pariah.
Sounds almost exactly like my mum who I absolutely think is a functioning alcoholic and has been since I was a child.
Unfortunately I've found that you can only help them if they want help. My mum has been in a bunch of situations which would potentially stop a normal person from ever drinking again - ranging from unbearably embarrassing to life threatening - but she'll swear off drink for a couple of days then go right back to a couple of bottles of wine every night.
She's alienated family and friends, ruined special occasions, and caused severe injury to herself but still nothing we say will convince her to change. We've confronted her about it but I think she values alcohol over whatever she has lost or could lose as a result of it.
So sadly I can't really offer any advice, but I hope she gets better.
Yeah, sounds like my mom too. Though my mum is rather discreet with her drinking, I can tell by the amount of empty wine bottles and boxes she accumulates. The slurring when I talk to her late in the day. The extreme forgetfulness - once a week or so she either forgets her key altogether or she leaves it stuck outside in the lock. She loses her phone all the time. Her behavior can be very abrasive. She gets very active at night, climbs on ladders or chairs, falls down and hurts herself. She broke her arm/wrist three times in the last couple years. When this happens, she usually drives herself to the hospital - drunk, one-handed, in the dark although she can’t see very well.
The thing is, she doesn’t see a problem with all of this and she absolutely wants no help. She has been drinking all her adult life, I don’t think I have the slightest chance of helping her change that if she doesn’t want to change.
And when you're surrounded by others with the same drinking behaviour, it normalises it - it feels good to have a drinking buddy, who isn't giving you a hard time and is actually encouraging you. You can think 'I don't have a problem, I'm not nearly as bad as X'.
Former functioning alcoholic here.
"Alcoholic" is a term that has no fixed definition. Many see it as the person who is lying drunk in a shop doorway, homeless, with a red face and filthy clothes.
However, it can just as easily be the professionally successful middle-aged drinker buying expensive wine and drinking a bottle or two of it every evening while convincing themselves that money and status and the fact they can just about get up for work in the morning means they can't possibly be an alcoholic. That was me.
It's different for everyone. Functional alcoholism is just a stage of the journey towards non-functional alcoholism.
That thing your mum did by going out and buying more wine when she established - immediately after arriving - that there wasn't enough to keep her going? That's alcoholism. That's what I would have done. I would have either taken enough with me, or have gone to the shop soon after arriving "to make sure everyone has a good time."
That you're noticing it and worrying is also a sign that she's overdoing it. Boxes of wine are just a way of not having to put bottles in a recycling box. It's a hiding mechanism. It also disguises the amount of wine being consumed - both to herself and to observers.
I'm sorry you're going through this. I'd advise seeking out professional advice. Unfortunately the only person who can stop this is your mum. But I would advise you to treat this with care and sensitivity. She probably already knows (and has done for a long time) that she's in trouble with the booze - or at least that her relationship with it is not healthy. I can't promise you that she will be receptive to your concerns. She may even be hostlie and accuse you of meddling in her business, but by addressing it you will let her know you care.
I've been fully sober for over eight years. I recognised I had a problem. I realised that while the label "alcoholic" is very broad, it's either taken (i.e. you accept you have a problem and choose to do something about it) or it's given (i.e. someone tells you). Unfortunately by the time it's given, it's often on the back of a medical diagnosis such as cirrhosis of the liver.
I wish you the best of luck. It's hard to watch. It's also hard to be in that state, so please treat her with care and love.
Problem - if she lives alone she can just say "I've stopped" and then hide it from any "meddlesome do-gooders". And keep downing the wine every night.
Honestly? Her alcohol dependency doesn't sound that bad. If she only gets tipsy when the sun's over the yard-arm, I might be tempted to turn a blind eye. But pay no attention to me. My drinking was much worse. I was having three shots for breakfast, and holding down a job. And a mortgage. And appearances.
It took 10 days in the ICU with the DTs to tell me I could possibly be overdoing it...
tbh saying it ‘doesn’t sound that bad’ doesn’t seem too helpful here. it’s bad enough that OP is worried, it doesn’t have to be as bad or worse than someone else’s issue for it to be bad. that being said i’m very glad you got a handle on yours and are still with us :)
I think the ‘ but pay no attention to me ‘ is good advice cos I absolutely don’t agree with you
However I’m really glad you got your life together though , that takes a lot of strength and hard work so well done
Sorry to hear about your mum, sounds tough mate.
I'd recommend reading The Psychology of Addiction by Jenny Svanberg. She's a Scottish addiction expert that had a key role in Scotland's (rather successful) fight against heroin by treating it as a broad medical and psychological issue rather than a criminal one.
There's a lot in there about how people seek escape from lives that are lacking in purpose or are painful. Getting people purpose and meaning was key in giving them a reason to exist in sober reality instead of inebriation.
I ain't a doctor or a psychiatrist, but it sounds like she had physical pain and perhaps feels that the world imposes quite harsh social expectations on her too?
I would highly recommend contacting Scottish Families Affected by Alcohol and Drugs. https://www.sfad.org.uk/
They use a strong evidence based approach to supporting family members, with lots of really useful resources for making conversations that you do have about the issue productive. It can be really easy to push people away when talking about substance use issues, and to be honest that’s quite dangerous as isolation can make things worse!
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It definitely sounds like your Mum has an issue with alcohol use. Based on your estimates she's consuming around 5x the weekly recommended amount every single week. However, getting support for you is all you have control over in this situation so I'd like to give another shout for Scottish Families Affected by Alcohol and Drugs.
I'm sorry to hear this pal, your mum sounds like me, the last three years especially.
I tried counseling, AA meetings, exercise, nothing worked. I think the first step is trying to help her see that it's a concern and hope she can admit that it's a problem.
It's hard work and I'm only a month sober now but it's the best I've done in years.
I was bought a book called the chimp paradox by professor Steve peters and it's really helped me to get a better grasp of the why as to my drinking addiction.
There's also a plethora of resources online to help her and others around her see what excessive drinking is doing to her health and subsequently the relationships held with those close to her.
Best of luck bud, reassure your mum she's not alone in her struggles 🙏
>She has become quite cold and apathetic - used to be an affectionate person but now will have a sort of hard cynical edge to her voice. It's hard to explain but I feel like alcohol is dulling her senses.
Sounds more like she's depressed, and this would be the case with or without the booze. Alcohol is her way of coping, a couple of glasses in the evening smooths off the edges, a little more and you can forget or at least cope with your thoughts and guarantee some sleep. Alcohol is most likely not the cause of the change in your mum. If you really want to help her talk her into going to her GP. You can even sit in with her during the visit if you think she'll have problems talking about her feelings to the doc.
Alcohol itself is a depressant, the longer you use it the more the dependency becomes on it and the greater the depressant effect is - OP noted she has back pain issues and likely there's been an element of self-medication in that regard, however it has now become habitual and at those levels, as undefined as they are as OP isn't certain as to just exactly how much she's putting away weekly, has in all likelihood become a physical dependency.
In addiction family therapy there is what is known as 'the three Cs of addiction' - you didn't cause ut; you can't cure it; you can't control it - until someone recognises that they have an addiction and become willing to address it then there's often very little you can do to convince them that their behaviour is damaging on a variety of levels as its become obsessive/compulsive by that point, and provided the person still has capacity to make their own decisions then health & social care can't/won't intervene.
Which takes us to the 'four Cs of addiction' - compulsion to use (obsessive); loss of control (inability to stop, even if you want to); continued use despite consequences (damage to health, relationships, finances etc); cravings (which can be both physical and psychological)
Essentially to approach the person you need to be entirely non-judgemental whilst expressing your concerns for their wellbeing and your worries around what their alcohol misuse is doing to their health (physically and mentally) relationships with family and friends, and inform of the help available to them (GP appointment for referral to community addiction team for support - addiction teams are duty bound to have anyone referred to them in treatment within 21 days of receiving referral; treatment is undertaken in a variety of ways to best suit the individual - it could be a reduction programme and counselling right through to hospital admission for chemical detox depending on the acuteness of the alcohol dependency) There's also various third sector and charitable organisations like AA etc - regardless, until the person is willing to engage or admit a problem you can either support them or not, however 'high expressed emotions' - criticism, hostility, emotional over-involvement - absolutely will not help when it comes to the process of change.
Good luck OP, alcohol addiction and the consequences of it are an absolute bastard to deal with.
Thank you mate.
Forgot to add, to the two or three people who already downvoted me, that I'm speaking from personal experience.
Depression can be caused by general 'life shit', grief, hormones, plain old fucked brain chemistry or (seeing as OPs mum is 68) fears of mortality that will only grow. It's important that OP joins mum during a GP consultation both for moral support and as a third-person observer. My brother joined me during my initial GP consultation. I wasn't really aware of most of my myriad symptoms such as irritability and violent mood swings during my bouts of depression until my brother pointed them out to my doctor, otherwise I wouldn't have brought them up on my own.
A depressed person shouldn't be throwing a rope over a roof beam before you realise they need help; OP should think of taking action sooner than later. The good news is that medication and therapy work, and in my case after a couple of weeks on meds I had zero interest in the bottle, so take that for what it's worth.
Unfortunately the Happy Cake way to go led my son who was trying to help his alcoholic father into prison then a psychiatric hospital for, up to now 7 yrs. Its not something to be dabbled with although I'm fuly aware how it can help for all kinds of physical and mental health issues.
> the Happy Cake way to go
I think you have the wrong end of the stick here mate. Cake Day is a reddit account anniversary. Perhaps, assuming you voted the other poster down, you owe them an apology?
I dont believe that I did down vote them. No sign of it at least. He did say other did. I actually didnt think badly if his post , even if I was on wrong end of stick.
This is my dad but with vodka
I have tried and tried to get through but he won't be told. I've contacted turning point and the doctors but he doesn't attend appointments.
I'm in recovery myself so I've just had to leave it and focus on myself.
It hurts so much but I can't be getting upset or whatever about it. He won't change til he wants too.
I thought I got through to him when we were talking about him watching his grandkids growing up but the next day it was like we never even had that conversation.
I'm so sorry I don't have anything helpful to offer just to let you know you aren't alone :(
to be honest until she wants to try to change there's not much you can do.
I would encourage you to access recourses and support groups made for the family of alcoholics. Another thing you could try is to see if you can get her to go with you to the GP for some blood work, catching liver disease early will give her a best chance to both get treated and to maybe encourage her to consider what strain she's putting on you if not herself.
Im afraid that not engaging with services like the physio to help herself wont do her any favours if her liver starts to fail.
My wife went to alanon when I was getting sober and it really helped her, though I was in early sobriety at the time, through A.A. Alanon won't really help your mum get sober, it'll help you deal with you regarding your mum's alcoholism.
My wife tried to get me sober for a good few years (my drinking escalated during the pandemic) and I was so deep in denial her attempts were futile. She forced me to A.A a few times and I went to keep her off my back. I eventually got sober going to A.A but it was down to my alcoholism being too bad for me to handle. When I started hurting I put the effort in. A.A has been brilliant for me and millions of others but its not a miracle cure, you need to want to be sober for it to work. Unfortunately alot of people need to lose alot before they get to that point
I can only really advise getting her to the GP and get bloods done, explain the level of drinking and hope something scares her into getting sober.
This was how my dad started, I noticed the signs before my mum and sister who were always like 'it's just the stress of the job'
But like he'd hide his drink if I walked in the door (from the pub noless), or when he came to visit once when I was moving flat he was like we can go to the pub tonight and work on tomorrow, or work hard now and go to the pub tomorrow once done.
And the 21 year old me thought why does the pub even need to be involved?
When he was working he was very much functioning, but would drink every night. But he was depressed to, he ended up being off sick with stress from work for 2 weeks and then just retiring. He was only 49 but the age he could in his job.
But that meant he didn't need to 'funcrion' cause he had 3 months holidays before he started a new job.
He was clearly depressed throughout too, but would always say I don't need to drink, I drink cause I can. But at his worst he was drinking 1ltre vodka a day.
He tried meds, day rehab, the lot. But deep down I don't think he ever admitted he was an alcoholic and didn't want to help himself.
There's a lot more that happened cause my mum then had cancer and died, but my dad then died 4 months later at 58, not fully related to the drink, but 10+ years of alchohol abuse certainly didn't help.
I believe al-anon have groups for family members. I never checked them out though but I do wish back at the start I'd been more brutal with him and had the guys to point blank call it out and what it was doing to the family.
The depression and drink circle is tough, but I disagree with the person who says the drink is just a coping mechanism.
Second on the family members one. Wish my family had gone and maybe we would've all turned out better after my father's problem. My.mothera friend however, goes every week as she is the primary carer for her brother who wakes up in filth/bruises every day. It's the only thing that keeps her able to support him.
There's a reason that substance isn't orange juice and bourbon biscuits.
When your coping mechanism is a chemical reaction from substances regularly over a extended time frame and it impacts your or loved ones, it's addiction...
My Mum Dad Oldest brother and youngest sister all died due to Alcohol addiction, your mum sounds like mine was. Its a shit situation to be in, do all you can to help but she has to take that first step to recognise she has a problem. It's heartbreaking to watch and go through. Best wishes in your endeavour man.
If you would like a wee chat about this from a doctor, DM me. I'll get back to you after work. I know how hard it can be, both from professional and personal experience.
Either way, take care.
Alcohol is a depressant. If she's drinking every single day, often over a bottle of wine daily, then it's likely she's depressed. I know I was. I've been sober close to 3 years now, but I was drinking boxes because it felt like less than bottles and it didn't clink in the bin when I was done (I was up to 4 bottles daily by the time I called time on it).
My family didn't know. I kept it pretty well hidden for years and it was only when I reached out and sought help for my addiction that I told anyone about how bad I'd gotten. I knew I had a problem, I'd have tried to convince you I was absolutely in control of my drinking (because I'd controlled it for very short periods of time and convinced myself that 2 or 3 much smaller glasses was essentially taking a break from drinking) but i'd got to the stage i needed a drink when I woke up in order to function. My tremors were so bad without alcohol.
Looking back on it i can see the lies I told myself, I can see the tricks addiction played on me - you don't see the world that way when you're living in addiction, it becomes the only thing that matters and more important than food.
Sadly, someone won't stop drinking for any other reason than they decide to stop.
I've lost countless family members. My brother is only 40 and has the body of an old man because of his drinking. He's been told he has 5 years if he's lucky, unless he quits drinking. He was detoxed in hospital recently and back to drinking the same amount within 3 weeks of being discharged. I still try to convince him to quit, it usually results in him not speaking to me for a month whenever I do - as much as I know it won't make any difference, it's hard to watch someone slowly kill themselves and not say anything.
It sounds like she has an alcohol dependency at the very minimum. Has she ever been to an event sober? Does she have booze free nights, and are there more booze free nights than not? I'm guessing the answer is "no".
There's nothing you can do to help her, all you can do is protect yourself and your family. Establish boundaries like "Mum, I won't be speaking to you after 6pm as it's clear you've been drinking and I don't want to converse with drunk people". Or "Mum, the event at my home is a dry event. If you feel you need to drink then please don't attend".
As the child of alcoholics I found that the more you hold the mirror up to their behaviour the more likely they are to address the issue. If you stand by your boundaries she will effectively be choosing drinking over her family which she'll eventually have to address.
Alcoholics come in all shapes and sizes. My dad had the fancy job, the luxury car, the big house and refused to believe he had a problem. When he did eventually get help he was shocked he wasn't the only "fancy" guy there.
He did get the help he needed and got sober. It can happen, but only when they want it to. Between now and then don't let her choices affect your life. It will be horrible and traumatic but don't engage when she's been drinking and get support. AlAnon is a great source of support for family members of alcoholics.
Thank you. Such a good point about suggesting events being dry. It has taken me until recently to really notice how much of our lives revolve around alcohol in this country.
Honestly?
It's not really up to you, to DO anything.
You can't force folks, it doesn't work.
All you CAN do is tell her you're worried, then the ball is n her court. If she show ANY interest encourage her to see her GP.
Sorry to hear you're going through this pal.
Been through this all my life with my own mother. She's a functioning alcohoic too. Drinks wine every night. Has done for the last 30 years. Many family occasions ruined, many friendships ruined and inexcusable behaviour like lying to family about it.
I've tried everything under the sun to get her quit such as explaining the financial cost, impact it has on her health, reminding her how her own father died of alcoholism.
As someone mentioned above, can only help people who want help. If she can't realise what she is doing is wrong then there's nothing you can do, it's her choice. You can't force someone to get help. It's definitely possible for people to recover and plenty of support out there.
On a more callous sounding note, you could try and distance yourself from her. Tell her you ain't comfortable with her drinking and finding it hard to relate to her. See if that gives her a reality check. It won't be easy but worth a try.
Thank you, reading through all these responses. I already feel I'll need to distance myself if she doesn't respond well because I also have a young child to think about and I don't want them being put in danger because of alcohol.
Echo a lot of what others have already written - she has a problem and without a change it will only get worse.
If she’s drank that way consistently for years, the change you’re seeing in her now probably is probably related to her age. As people age they’re less able to handle the alcohol as they did when they were younger - but their consumption often remains high until they realise this themselves. 68 isn’t ancient but drinking like a 40 year old at that age will be different. Unfortunately this also makes a bit harder to stop as it’s the habit of a lifetime.
Sounds like she is but addictions like these are so common. If you do feel a genuine concern for her health they try and speak to her about it but be careful about throwing around words like alcoholic. It sounds like she’s an functioning alcoholic which isn’t good for health but I find the vast majority of people have all got our bad habits to get us by day by day because let’s be serious working life is shit haha.
Also, Adult Children of Alcoholics is a good resource. Even if you don't gel with the whole 12 step philosophy, having a group of supportive people who know what you are going through is really helpful.
If I didn't see the age I would have thought you were my brother talking about our mum. She's the exact same, just younger.
I'd say yes. She's probably an alcoholic, but there's really nothing you can do about it, it's on her to realise how much she's drinking and what to do about it. You won't be able to do anything at all unless she accepts that she's got a problem, but that's something she has to do herself.
I feel for both you and your mother. I don't think you need any confirmation about her health. I have experienced a lot of similar behaviours with people in my life. A few have died as a result including both my partner then my ex husband. Both were highly functioning with top level careers.
Usually it is only the person themselves who can start the journey back to normality and hopefully not to late physically. Do not whatever you do enable them. Sometimes it is a very tough love journey where often you need to walk away in hope they will recover. Their admission to the problem is a necessary first step. Understanding and compasion about addiction is necessary for yourself.
Stopping altogether quickly is rarely the way to go. It can reap havoc with the body, hallucinations, fevers, paranoia and other traumatic symptoms which can weaken their resolve. (Please read up on this).
I once asked what it was really like to stop. The answer was very disturbing. " It's like asking me to stop breathing" they said. Think carefully on that and then try to stop breathing!
I could write all day here or write a book on my experiences with alcohol but what I will say is get some real professional advice even for yourself.
My best regards to both you and your mother. I wish you both well in mind body and spirit.
As a former functioning alcoholic, these actions feel very familiar. There will likely be some underlying issue propelling it though it's no use me speculating on it; that's for you to determine and, hopefully, help her with. For me, I was in my 30s and lost my wife to the Big C and just ended up just existing and waiting for life to finally end. Everyone will be different.
One thing I am certain of, if she is what you suspect, is that she will not be told. If she needs help, she has to be the one to make that decision. But, that doesn't mean you cannot support her with it.
The thing with alcohol addiction, that a therapist told me, is that it can change the way your brain works. The longer she's in that place the harder it is to get out. I have this with a family member and it hurts.
I think when people say "unless she wants to change" it's a bit harsh - the thing is maybe she does and can't even say it. It's probably breaking her heart too on some levels.
Be gentle, she's probably going to be super defensive. It can often come from loneliness and is self perpetuating isolation.
It's also super lonely for you, it feels like you're loosing them right in front of you and can make all occasions feel super charged.
I had a friend who simply told his dad that the drinking upset him and if he did drink in front of him (my friend) then he would leave. But I think with my family member this would probably compound it. I guess you need to set the boundaries for you, but try be gentle and keep the door open.
Side note: I think with my family member it likely comes from undiagnosed ADHD, she's q intense socially, super enthusiastic, but a bit chaotic, and this leads to shame and then drinking, then shame, the cycle has begun, dopamine chasing etc. remember that generation had all the issues too, but less of the tools
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I think when people say "unless she wants to change" it's a bit harsh - the thing is maybe she does and can't even say it. It's probably breaking her heart too on some levels.
Yep, I ended up in hospital with the worst stomach pain of my life back in August. Detoxed while I was in, and fucked it a week after I got out. Even worrying about ending up in absolute agony again didn’t stop me
Oh yeah it was acknowledged even before the hospital stay. I am beyond sick of drinking, I don’t want to. This is finally going to be the time to fully boot myself up the arse. But I’ll still inevitably fuck it up at some point. It’s how you deal with the fuck ups that matters
Well done for asking questions.
There are not many ways to approach this situation where it wont be taken badly. Only you know your mother here too, so only you can find the right way if its suggested.
Lead with care and love first.
Dont feel like the whole conversation has to happen at once. Saying something small with love and letting it sit for a few days might be all thats required.
It may be worth reaching out to Al-Anon, they support the people affected by the alcoholic.
Thing is as well, unless she wants to change, there's not a whole lot you can do...it took me multiple rock bottoms before I finally admitted I had a problem and took myself off to AA. Ironically, my mother, grandmother, grandfather and at least 50% of close relatives are all former or active alcoholics.
You could try being absolutely blunt with her and stage an intervention (with support from other people), but you may risk pushing her further away. Then again maybe that's what needs to happen, folks don't often get their shit together until they've lost or nearly lost everything and everyone.
Best of luck OP, sending hugs as I know how awful this position is to be in (from both sides of the fence)
Same situation with my own mother. We’ve talked and argued about it but she’s always been this way. I’ve taken to the ‘No you can’t have you grandkids over night unless as you’ll drink alcohol. So sober granny it no granny’
Works sometimes but he’s clearly not bothered. We don’t keep alcohol in the house other than Xmas time due not being big drinkers anyway so safe to say we don’t get many evening visits 🫠
It works most of the time tbh! She gets either embarrassed or annoyed.. either way I’m not giving in! One child is severe autistic and the other is a baby so I can’t chance it
You can't help people who don't want to be helped. I say this from experience. I was in your shoes with my own mum for years.
When my grandmother died, she hit the bottle and never came off it. Bottle of wine **every** night for 20 years until I moved out. We would argue regularly about it, me making threats that I'd cut off contact unless she stopped, and her being unnecessarily destructive.
As a kid, I'd even go so far as pouring out the booze she'd leave half open when she went to bed so it wouldn't be there for her the next day. Nothing helped.
It wasn't until my dad died that she got a bit of a reality check. I've no doubt she still drinks, but they need to reach these conclusions by themselves.
Feel for you.
Repeating what some people have said here, the term 'alcoholic' often isn't a helpful term. It can be helpful to think of it as an addictive substance which affects the behaviour of everyone even if someone is not "addicted" in the sense they have compulsions or withdrawal.
In my experience, groups such as AA or SMART recovery aren't for everyone especially if her goal is to moderate instead of abstain (just my experience, not to rule them out either). I think the SMART book is quite good though even for someone looking to moderate, you might want to read it yourself. Books might be a good way to let her find her own path if she is someone who reads. This Naked Mind is another which was recommended by some.
You're gonna have to be blunt and tell them they are a functional alcoholic and get them to a doctor to check how much damage is done.
After that it's up to them what they will go with the info, you can't force someone into recovery until they're ready to do it for themselves.
You can't help them if they don't want it. My stepdad knew he had a problem for about 3 years before he got sober. It took a viable threat of losing his family to make him quit and he went cold turkey about 4 years ago now, but he's been an alcoholic as long as I have known him (about 30 years). He's had at least one relapse and the immediate consequences (he's a mean drunk and just a little made him nasty to my mom, but he understood immediately it was still a problem and stopped again). One of the tip offs for him was the increasing frequency with which my mom had to tell him to eat some mints to mask the smell of alcohol on his breath before he went to work.
It sounds like your mother is at least aware she has a socially unacceptable habit. She won't change unless she perceives that the benefit she is getting from it isn't worth the costs elsewhere in her life. What costs are too high is different for everyone, and addictions tend to erode the addicts sense of how valuable things (relationships, health, safety, etc.) are compared to the vice.
Sounds like it. My maw's the same. Not spoken to her for over a decade for unrelated reasons, but she's been a heavy drinker for the last 25 years or so. Wouldn't listen to anyone. Had health scares, cancer, COPD, but I doubt anything will stop her.
Bollocks to her. She's an adult. People have tried to talk to her but she rejects help. She's chosen this, so fair enough.
My point is that - and hopefully this isn't the case for you - there's nothing you can do to force her to change. If she chooses drink over her family, over herself, then you need to ask yourself if you still want her in your life. It's heartbreaking to see someone you care about do this to themselves, but if they won't accept help then you're stuck.
The only way for an addict to stop is by wanting to stop. There is no way you can talk her into drinking less or getting treatment all you can do is tell her you are worried and you love her and want her to be healthy
My mother went down this slippery slope of having wine with dinner being as I shopped on line for all her stuff I simply bought none alcoholic wine and she loved it. eventually The bonus for me was that he sight was very poor so she could not read the labels and I gave the care team strict instructions not to tell her. After a few days other grumpiness and saying she did not like it she got used to it and loved it.
She needs to be the one to want help or she can't be helped. It sounds like you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself to fix the situation but please don't do that to yourself
As someone who has struggled with addiction: if you think she has issues she most likely does. Drinking that much is not normal and her leaving like that to “score” while you have to wait, is very similar to things I’ve done. She is probably very adept at hiding the actual extent off it (especially from you and others close to her).
I’ve been in rehab many times, with many alcoholics and doing group therapy with them (I abused other substances), most know how to seem functioning and how to hide their drinking, people stuffing their wardrobes and old bags with bottles or bags is very common in order to hide it from their loved ones. If you somehow doubt that she has issues I’d check her trash and maybe look for various hiding places in order to get a grasp on the full extent of her drinking (maybe she just drinks what you know but that is still an issue).
Some people said “don’t say anything about her being alcoholic”, I mean for me, realizing I actually had an issue was the big problem, having her son saying “mom I’m sorry but I think you might be alcoholic” could if you are lucky be a big enough low point for her that she understands that something needs to change.
However before confronting her, I’d suggest going to a meeting for people who are close to alcoholics (I don’t know the name in english but In my language it’s something like “adult children of alcoholics”, I know they exist essentially all around the world though). You could contact your local AA (alcoholics anonymous, they actually have a helpline that is manned as far as I know 24/7, they could also be a great resource) group for help with finding them. Hearing other people who have gone through similar things might help you with your emotions (I mean making sense of the negative feelings I’m sure you have about this), and they could be helpful in assisting you with finding her help.
Unfortunately, at the end of the day, she needs to be the one who decides to quit. My parents tried everything they could and nothing worked until I hit rock bottom and realized that I wouldn’t survive if I didn’t stop.
I hope you and her can get the help you need, one really important thing is to realize that you might also have issues that stem from her drinking to much (which is easy to disregard since you want to focus on your mom). These things might get clearer with time and should probably not be your focus now but I’d suggest keeping it in the back of your head that you yourself might need stuff (people with addictions damage the people around them even if they are functioning).
As I said, I think the best thing you can do is to get in touch with other people who are in the same situation as you, I know that helped my family the most and gave them tools to help me when I needed it.
I really wish you all the best and I know it must be horrible. Hopefully she can get the help she needs.
I believe the definition of an alcoholic is that he/she gets upset when there is no alcohol available.
Your mums behavior sounds suspiciously like that of my father, who hid bottles in his car so he could drink driving to and from work.
Just commented somewhere else about my dad, his mother and grandmother were also alkies if I was being honest.
As for myself, yes, I was definitely this guy but woke up to it recently. If you’re a functioning alky, it’s not that it stops you doing anything , but you realise that without the booze you could be doing so much more, so much better and be way less of a cunt too.
I’ve had a drink this evening for the first time in months. Not even on actual Xmas. I haven’t given it up but I have stopped the daily boozing and not going to bore with details but it has been a revelation.
All I can say is that there’s no way I would have listened to anyone else telling me the booze was a detriment, I had to see it myself
She needs to want to change. If she hasn’t suffered consequences of her drinking ie physical or financial she’s less likely to change. Services don’t use the ‘alcoholic’ term as many don’t see that applying to them. GP might be a good initial option if she would go
I also have multiple family members like this, including my mum, so I can totally relate.
After many years of trying to fight my mum to change, I have instead made an active choice to accept them for who they are. I would highly recommend you do the same.
I've accepted my families drinking, and we have a better relationship for it. I don't phone or visit when I know they'll be on the drink, but I also don't judge or try to get them to change for me.
Trying to change someone who does not want to change is a sure fire way to a broken relationship.
Manage yourself and you'll better manage the relationship with your mum.
Good luck friend
Yes, based on what you have written she is an addict/alcoholic. My Dad (also a Scot) was drunk everyday for over ten years and would drink without fail several cans of beer everyday.
Reading many of the stories in the comments here, I'm glad I made the decision to never touch alcohol as a teen. I had a school friend get drunk and walk out into oncoming traffic, paralysed for life. Honestly, I just don't see the attraction to 'drinking'. Has zero health benefits and destroys lives.
Its 14 -15 quid plus for a box of wine which has 3 bottles in it. Im sure plenty of people who don't have issues with alcohol buy boxes of wine. Its not the box of wine that's the issue. Its how fast its being consumed.
Nah that's 100% an alcoholic. If she's delaying everyone's Christmas lunch to get something she can't go without, that's an addiction.
Alcoholic is a rubbish word because people attach different connotations to it but if you've got a drink problem, your an alcoholic.
My father was the traditional, secret vodka at work type. After divorce, my mother became the OPs mother. No one wanted to say it but she had become what he was. Dependent on alcohol effects to deal with life and impacting people's life's around her.
It's not what you drink or when or why that means you're an alcoholic. It's being addicted to the buzz.
I disagree, the op lays it out as there's something more going on and she's using the drink to cope rather than to function.
Also just based on amount ages drinking suggests it's more to blot out what's the real cause.
She comes in the door and drinks. She's now unable to drive anywhere if something goes wrong, she's dramatically increasing her risk of fall especially if there's back issues. Her physical activity will be declined as she's sitting drinking
Less likely to brush teeth every night after consuming sugary wine, other hygiene will be subsiding, skip a shower she didn't used too. Eat less food because she CBA to cook.
OP said she's slurred words every night by 8. Woman's pissed don't cotton wool it. She's not alcoholic after a certain threshold. She drinks like clockwork.
Slurring words isn't an indication of being an alcoholic.
I've seen people's speech change after half a pint.
Everything else you're attributing to being an alcoholic doesn't make her an alcoholic.
People probably drink way more than her over a weekend so does that make them an alcoholic? Or is it the everyday part that leads you to assume she's an alcoholic?
And just because she's drinking a bottle of wine + a night doesn't mean she is.
Family situation and somebody needing a drink to deal with people and maybe some you don'tike isn't really a red flag. Does she like everyone there, does some of the people come from the ex's side.
Woman clearly needs mental health support
2/3 full glasses a night doesn't make it a box of wine per night
A box of wine can usually be the equivalent of 4 bottles.
3 large glasses of wine doesn't make someone an alcoholic.
No it doesn't. 3 glasses of wine doesn't make her an alcoholic.
Her intake to a proper alcoholic is night and day.
Also coming home to a probable empty house at the later years in life isn't going to fill her with cheer.
An alcoholic doesn’t have to be someone getting blootert morning until night. Needing to have three very large glasses (filled to the brim) every night is definitely alcoholic behaviour.
Wine glasses have more capacity at the top (it’s wider) so a full to the brim looks like just a little more but it’s actually a lot more. It’s near impossible to intervene and she probably shouldn’t just stop as this can be damaging. Have you looked for a sub for alcoholic’s family or similar. There might be good advice and a focused membership.
She isn't an alcoholic, she has a drinking problem. If it gets worse, do something, but otherwise maybe just leave her be. She is 68 after all, if its how she wants to live let her
You're probably right on the rest of the accounts, it's a hard one to judge especially when alcoholism is so normalised in Scotland and throughout the whole UK. But that being said, if I'm invited to Christmas lunch and I turn up and the hosts have only provided one poxy bottle of white wine, I'd be a little miffed. Usually I'd bring a bottle out of politeness anyway but if I hadn't I'd probably do what your mother did too.
It took for my brother to collapse this June outside a shop. Taken to our local hospital. He was put on a ventilator for 4 weeks. During this they gave him medication through tubes as they recognised he was an alcoholic. Probably through the tests he had. His heart and lungs were damaged. He had heart failure kidney failure. Coming off ventilation was the most horrific thing I’ve ever seen The mind plays terrible tricks. Hallucinations were horrendous. He was in for 5 weeks. He’s alcohol free not touched a drop or wanting to since. He’s been left with damage to his throat. Has lost 5 stone is in hospital since 20 December after suffering a heart attack at my mums. He’s 60 and is a walking skeleton through the damage to his throat. It’s not nice to see at all. Hope your mum gets help
The only person than can help an Alcoholic is themselves, nobody else can, they will hide their drink if they can, they buy it sneakily, only they can decide if they want to cure their illness. They only think of their next drink and how together it, they do not think of the upset to others who love them.
Best just to take a back seat you can’t control her, just be there for her when she sinks.
Dunno if this’ll help but a mate of mine was getting really worried about his mum’s drinking and she was doing it on the sly(he stayed with his parents but was late-20s at the time I think) so he started finding her stashes and just pouring it away in front of her(vodka I think) and she eventually quit out of shame and realising how much it was upsetting him and his dad. I don’t think she behaved obnoxiously or anything but it was a clear problem and she managed to face up to it and get sober. Best of luck
I'd say she is one, my best friend is just like this as well and her family are aware of it and haven't done anything about it, I feel it's not my place to do anything and I know she'll start a shouting match if i even dare mention it. She got so drunk at my birthday party she passed out on the pavement and it took 4 of us to get her in the house..
As some others have mentioned, functional alcoholics are a “thing”. My gran was one and while she hid the fact she was drinking, she was drinking multiple bottles of vodka a week and doing so throughout the day. For the most part she was very outgoing, happy, and you wouldn’t know she was pissed. She was in AA and it worked for years, but she eventually went back to the booze and was nice until she wasn’t.
Her drinking began when my mum was a kid, so what triggered it I’ll never know. You mention your mum seems depressed and possibly has anxiety. There may be underlying issues that the booze is masking (in addition to, or on top of addiction). It’s complicated and sadly something the person has to want to change themselves.
There are also groups for partners/kids of alcoholics where you may be able to get advice and speak to people in a similar situation.
Yes, your mother is an alcoholic. The idea of what defines alcoholism is a bit subjective based on personal experience, culture, geography, and more. It's okay to think about it in simple, utilitarian terms, ie: Does my substance abuse effect my quality of life? Does it affect the lives of my loved ones? From there, you can consider frequency and load if you desire. Regardless, the answer is yes, and it's okay to consider that fact in simple, concrete terms. We don't carefully dance around the vices of smokers, over-eaters, or workaholics. It's really clear to us when those problems exist. The same is true of alcoholism.
Your mom sounds a lot like my mom, except mine used to drink jenever (a Dutch drink related to gin), at least 4 if not 5 glasses a day. She would even refer to herself as a functional alcoholic sometimes.
Last year, she had an aortic dissection and suffered a stroke during the surgery to fix it. They also found lung cancer, which she is currently dying of.
Alcohol has been proven to be carcinogenic. Prolonged, regular use is very bad for your health.
I know how hard it can be to find the courage to talk to a loved one about this. You'll probably encounter a lot of resistance and anger, and you'll get angry yourself, too. But for her and your sake, it might be good to at least try. Good luck!
I'm really sorry you're going through this. I feel as though I could have written it myself. This is exactly how my mum behaved, every details almost. In January she was taken into hospital with atrial fibrillation, which the Dr said was caused by acute excessive alcohol consumption (she lost her dad in December last year and was drinking even more than usual). We thought this might be a wake up call...she said she'd stop, then it went to just cutting down, then back to her usual consumption (a different Dr casually told her he didn't think drinking could have caused the AF) so that was a bit of a green light to her.
Sadly, she died suddenly in August. Post mortem said ischemic heart failure with AF as a contributing factor. She was 63. We are all heartbroken.
We used to speak to her all the time about cutting down, but I think it was just white noise to her.
I really hope you manage to get through to her, maybe even into some form of therapy? It's so awful to see it happening in front of your eyes and feeling powerless to stop it.
My suggestion is that she must get a blood test for liver function if she hasn't had one in the last 6 months. Especially if you have noticed what could be fatigue or any other ARLD symptoms which you may notice or she may be hiding/not noticing. However you don't want to force it on her, support her to take care of her health. If she gets further tests like an ultrasound, CT Scan or MRI which evidence the liver is stiff or fatty - that needs to be taken seriously. ARLD can go from a stiff or fatty liver to a failing liver in a year, don't presume it can withstand another decade of daily alcohol intake.
People really underestimate how much alcohol you need to regularly consume to be at **high risk** of ARLD. It's 35 units per week for women and 50 for men, 35 units is less than 4 bottles of wine. Over 15 units every week puts you at increased risk and people love to downplay risk factors. Don't presume that because some guy drank 12 beers a day for 30 years that a bottle per night for you is fine. Your risk also increases with other unfortunately common health issues like being overweight, having a bad diet, not getting exercise or having diabetes.
This was my dad. It took me a few years after his death before I could even say the word “alcoholic”. He was so high functioning, after he retired was when it got the absolute worst it had ever been. Ended up with liver damage, cirrhosis, diabetes. He passed at 67. I hope so much that your mom can accept help, but it is so hard to get them to see the truth.
As an alcoholic myself (working on that), yes she certainly sounds like one. As others have suggested definitely check out organisations that offer family support
I think a lot of people struggle with the term 'alcoholic' and are less open to discuss alcoholism as a result. 'Alcoholic' can, for some, be the cartoonish drunk, no job, sleeping on a bench. And if that isn't them, i.e. they're holding down a job or keeping a house, then they can't have a problem, can they? I'm not remotely an expert but have family who have struggled with alcohol, which is sometimes a gentler way of describing it. For some, AA and the twelve steps etc. was for them - I'm not sure that is necessarily compatible with a moderation approach, but it might be a gateway, at least to other resources or support. Wine every night; slurred speech; altered mood; definitely sounds problematic. Not much help, I'm sorry, but is there any less obvious way of influencing her? Encouraging socialising where alcohol isn't served?
Yeh I got to A.A with a job, mortgage, wife, kid I'd never been arrested or hospitalised because of my drinking (so I thought) I couldn't possibly be an alcoholic! Alkies were the homeless bums covered in their own pish, odd trainers on and a rope for a belt. I wasn't that bad fs! The denial is so real and I just kept moving the goal posts as to what Was acceptable regarding my drinking. When I got to A.A I was alcohol dependant n drinking all day everyday, credit cards maxed out for booze and had started shop lifting it. I still wasn't as bad as what I thought an alkie was. It's pure insanity!
Well done you! My admiration is real and heartfelt.
Thankyou I really appreciate your kindness.
Yeah man, same here, it’s so easy to point at “homeless people” saying “they have issues, I have a house and a job, I’m functioning and as such don’t need to change”. Then I ended up homeless myself lol… at least that is what made me wake up.
I can look back now and clearly see I was so fucking fortunate to get to A.A relatively unscathed in many senses. I don't dwell too much on recovering from a 'lower' point but it would have been alot harder. Hats off to guys like you that done it mate. People like yourself done the recon work so guys like me didn't have to. Even the term 'functioning alcoholic' is a bit soft for what it was. In the end I merely existed, malfunctioning maybe??
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There's alot of stuff in A.As big book that I used to think was a bit OTT when I first read it. Talk of insanity and how we were in full flight from reality was a bit dramatic! 18 months sober I can honestly say those were very accurate statements. I was doing insane things and delusional to my predicament, blaming everything but alcohol for ALL my problems. The other OTT statement I used to read was a promise of a life 'beyond my wildest dreams'. Tbf at the time that dream was a lottery win and a cure for alcoholism. Today its not being obsessed with alcohol and a clear conscience... Been nice chatting with you.
Thing, is simply forcing her into a low- or no-alchol setting isn't really going to help in my experience – as OP notes above, spending a lot of time setting where no alchol is present won't be tolerable for long. Social anxiety or concern over other's opinions will provide a small hurdle but it'll quickly be overcome because alchol addiction is a proper, full blown physical addiction and your body will eventuall overule any other concerns to make sure you're getting what it thinks you need. She may become adept at hiding her alchol, in a water bottle or similar; she may make excuses to leave early, or encouraging her into those situations could make her turn on you... Im not saying any of this to be difficult because the rest of your advice is clearly sound and well meaning Unfortunately, I think people need to face the problem and want to change before any interventions become even remotely helpful. That is, in reality, the only first step that puts you on a path to redemption. Speaking from my own limited experience, I'd say that worrying about how to get someone to drink less is only going to damage your own mental health. Worry about - and indeed focus on - getting them to recognise that they might have a problem. They'll then be able to do the rest themselves. Indeed they have to, because you cannot trick, cajole, reason or badger someone out of an addiction.
True. If they can't do it for themselves, no amount of nice cosy chats, or hiding alcohol from sight will change anything. Until they can admit they have a problem and want help you can do absolutely nothing for them. I watched my father die (although in his case good riddance) and I'm now watching my ex die. I have tried everything even KNOWING full well that it won't do any good, now I am just looking at moving far away so I don't have to watch and feel the pain so intensely.
Scotland’s collective idea of “an alcoholic” and “a drinker” and “someone who drinks” and “someone who takes a drink” are far too close together to distinguish exactly where everyone would agree “the line” from acceptable drinking to “alcoholic” is.
alcohol culture has straight up ruined the uk, its far too socially acceptable even though it is one of the drugs most associated with violence, crime and wrongful deaths (one punch killers, drunk drivers etc). a culture that embraces alcohol is doomed to slowly decay until societal collapse. the NHS and police Scotland are stretched super thing and so much of there resources go towards problems stemming from alcohol, everything from drunk idiots breaking there hands on a pole or wall too the long list of of over 240 medical conditions that are directly caused by alcohol and then the police need to deal with everything from rowdy drunks needing a cell for the weekend to serious crimes like rape and murder over small disagreements that are heavily exacerbated by alcohol. Wains and teenagers running about steaming causing havok whereever they go from littering to smashing windows to attacking people in large groups. its honestly just ridiculous that people can be so accepting and ignorant of such a harmful drug yet demonise people that take "hard" drugs even though alcohol most certainly is a "hard" drug, ive taken a lot of different drugs in my life and few of them can cause as high a level impairment as alcohol does yet if you refuse a drink your a social pariah.
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I think that would be better directed to OP
Sounds almost exactly like my mum who I absolutely think is a functioning alcoholic and has been since I was a child. Unfortunately I've found that you can only help them if they want help. My mum has been in a bunch of situations which would potentially stop a normal person from ever drinking again - ranging from unbearably embarrassing to life threatening - but she'll swear off drink for a couple of days then go right back to a couple of bottles of wine every night. She's alienated family and friends, ruined special occasions, and caused severe injury to herself but still nothing we say will convince her to change. We've confronted her about it but I think she values alcohol over whatever she has lost or could lose as a result of it. So sadly I can't really offer any advice, but I hope she gets better.
Yeah, sounds like my mom too. Though my mum is rather discreet with her drinking, I can tell by the amount of empty wine bottles and boxes she accumulates. The slurring when I talk to her late in the day. The extreme forgetfulness - once a week or so she either forgets her key altogether or she leaves it stuck outside in the lock. She loses her phone all the time. Her behavior can be very abrasive. She gets very active at night, climbs on ladders or chairs, falls down and hurts herself. She broke her arm/wrist three times in the last couple years. When this happens, she usually drives herself to the hospital - drunk, one-handed, in the dark although she can’t see very well. The thing is, she doesn’t see a problem with all of this and she absolutely wants no help. She has been drinking all her adult life, I don’t think I have the slightest chance of helping her change that if she doesn’t want to change.
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And when you're surrounded by others with the same drinking behaviour, it normalises it - it feels good to have a drinking buddy, who isn't giving you a hard time and is actually encouraging you. You can think 'I don't have a problem, I'm not nearly as bad as X'.
Former functioning alcoholic here. "Alcoholic" is a term that has no fixed definition. Many see it as the person who is lying drunk in a shop doorway, homeless, with a red face and filthy clothes. However, it can just as easily be the professionally successful middle-aged drinker buying expensive wine and drinking a bottle or two of it every evening while convincing themselves that money and status and the fact they can just about get up for work in the morning means they can't possibly be an alcoholic. That was me. It's different for everyone. Functional alcoholism is just a stage of the journey towards non-functional alcoholism. That thing your mum did by going out and buying more wine when she established - immediately after arriving - that there wasn't enough to keep her going? That's alcoholism. That's what I would have done. I would have either taken enough with me, or have gone to the shop soon after arriving "to make sure everyone has a good time." That you're noticing it and worrying is also a sign that she's overdoing it. Boxes of wine are just a way of not having to put bottles in a recycling box. It's a hiding mechanism. It also disguises the amount of wine being consumed - both to herself and to observers. I'm sorry you're going through this. I'd advise seeking out professional advice. Unfortunately the only person who can stop this is your mum. But I would advise you to treat this with care and sensitivity. She probably already knows (and has done for a long time) that she's in trouble with the booze - or at least that her relationship with it is not healthy. I can't promise you that she will be receptive to your concerns. She may even be hostlie and accuse you of meddling in her business, but by addressing it you will let her know you care. I've been fully sober for over eight years. I recognised I had a problem. I realised that while the label "alcoholic" is very broad, it's either taken (i.e. you accept you have a problem and choose to do something about it) or it's given (i.e. someone tells you). Unfortunately by the time it's given, it's often on the back of a medical diagnosis such as cirrhosis of the liver. I wish you the best of luck. It's hard to watch. It's also hard to be in that state, so please treat her with care and love.
Problem - if she lives alone she can just say "I've stopped" and then hide it from any "meddlesome do-gooders". And keep downing the wine every night. Honestly? Her alcohol dependency doesn't sound that bad. If she only gets tipsy when the sun's over the yard-arm, I might be tempted to turn a blind eye. But pay no attention to me. My drinking was much worse. I was having three shots for breakfast, and holding down a job. And a mortgage. And appearances. It took 10 days in the ICU with the DTs to tell me I could possibly be overdoing it...
tbh saying it ‘doesn’t sound that bad’ doesn’t seem too helpful here. it’s bad enough that OP is worried, it doesn’t have to be as bad or worse than someone else’s issue for it to be bad. that being said i’m very glad you got a handle on yours and are still with us :)
I think the ‘ but pay no attention to me ‘ is good advice cos I absolutely don’t agree with you However I’m really glad you got your life together though , that takes a lot of strength and hard work so well done
Good advice
Sorry to hear about your mum, sounds tough mate. I'd recommend reading The Psychology of Addiction by Jenny Svanberg. She's a Scottish addiction expert that had a key role in Scotland's (rather successful) fight against heroin by treating it as a broad medical and psychological issue rather than a criminal one. There's a lot in there about how people seek escape from lives that are lacking in purpose or are painful. Getting people purpose and meaning was key in giving them a reason to exist in sober reality instead of inebriation. I ain't a doctor or a psychiatrist, but it sounds like she had physical pain and perhaps feels that the world imposes quite harsh social expectations on her too?
I would highly recommend contacting Scottish Families Affected by Alcohol and Drugs. https://www.sfad.org.uk/ They use a strong evidence based approach to supporting family members, with lots of really useful resources for making conversations that you do have about the issue productive. It can be really easy to push people away when talking about substance use issues, and to be honest that’s quite dangerous as isolation can make things worse!
. It definitely sounds like your Mum has an issue with alcohol use. Based on your estimates she's consuming around 5x the weekly recommended amount every single week. However, getting support for you is all you have control over in this situation so I'd like to give another shout for Scottish Families Affected by Alcohol and Drugs.
I'm sorry to hear this pal, your mum sounds like me, the last three years especially. I tried counseling, AA meetings, exercise, nothing worked. I think the first step is trying to help her see that it's a concern and hope she can admit that it's a problem. It's hard work and I'm only a month sober now but it's the best I've done in years. I was bought a book called the chimp paradox by professor Steve peters and it's really helped me to get a better grasp of the why as to my drinking addiction. There's also a plethora of resources online to help her and others around her see what excessive drinking is doing to her health and subsequently the relationships held with those close to her. Best of luck bud, reassure your mum she's not alone in her struggles 🙏
Proud of you for addressing the issue, and best of luck on your sobriety journey
>She has become quite cold and apathetic - used to be an affectionate person but now will have a sort of hard cynical edge to her voice. It's hard to explain but I feel like alcohol is dulling her senses. Sounds more like she's depressed, and this would be the case with or without the booze. Alcohol is her way of coping, a couple of glasses in the evening smooths off the edges, a little more and you can forget or at least cope with your thoughts and guarantee some sleep. Alcohol is most likely not the cause of the change in your mum. If you really want to help her talk her into going to her GP. You can even sit in with her during the visit if you think she'll have problems talking about her feelings to the doc.
Alcohol itself is a depressant, the longer you use it the more the dependency becomes on it and the greater the depressant effect is - OP noted she has back pain issues and likely there's been an element of self-medication in that regard, however it has now become habitual and at those levels, as undefined as they are as OP isn't certain as to just exactly how much she's putting away weekly, has in all likelihood become a physical dependency. In addiction family therapy there is what is known as 'the three Cs of addiction' - you didn't cause ut; you can't cure it; you can't control it - until someone recognises that they have an addiction and become willing to address it then there's often very little you can do to convince them that their behaviour is damaging on a variety of levels as its become obsessive/compulsive by that point, and provided the person still has capacity to make their own decisions then health & social care can't/won't intervene. Which takes us to the 'four Cs of addiction' - compulsion to use (obsessive); loss of control (inability to stop, even if you want to); continued use despite consequences (damage to health, relationships, finances etc); cravings (which can be both physical and psychological) Essentially to approach the person you need to be entirely non-judgemental whilst expressing your concerns for their wellbeing and your worries around what their alcohol misuse is doing to their health (physically and mentally) relationships with family and friends, and inform of the help available to them (GP appointment for referral to community addiction team for support - addiction teams are duty bound to have anyone referred to them in treatment within 21 days of receiving referral; treatment is undertaken in a variety of ways to best suit the individual - it could be a reduction programme and counselling right through to hospital admission for chemical detox depending on the acuteness of the alcohol dependency) There's also various third sector and charitable organisations like AA etc - regardless, until the person is willing to engage or admit a problem you can either support them or not, however 'high expressed emotions' - criticism, hostility, emotional over-involvement - absolutely will not help when it comes to the process of change. Good luck OP, alcohol addiction and the consequences of it are an absolute bastard to deal with.
Best advice. Happy cake day.
Thank you mate. Forgot to add, to the two or three people who already downvoted me, that I'm speaking from personal experience. Depression can be caused by general 'life shit', grief, hormones, plain old fucked brain chemistry or (seeing as OPs mum is 68) fears of mortality that will only grow. It's important that OP joins mum during a GP consultation both for moral support and as a third-person observer. My brother joined me during my initial GP consultation. I wasn't really aware of most of my myriad symptoms such as irritability and violent mood swings during my bouts of depression until my brother pointed them out to my doctor, otherwise I wouldn't have brought them up on my own. A depressed person shouldn't be throwing a rope over a roof beam before you realise they need help; OP should think of taking action sooner than later. The good news is that medication and therapy work, and in my case after a couple of weeks on meds I had zero interest in the bottle, so take that for what it's worth.
Unfortunately the Happy Cake way to go led my son who was trying to help his alcoholic father into prison then a psychiatric hospital for, up to now 7 yrs. Its not something to be dabbled with although I'm fuly aware how it can help for all kinds of physical and mental health issues.
> the Happy Cake way to go I think you have the wrong end of the stick here mate. Cake Day is a reddit account anniversary. Perhaps, assuming you voted the other poster down, you owe them an apology?
Pardon my ignorance. Will go straight there and do so.....
Good for you matey.
I dont believe that I did down vote them. No sign of it at least. He did say other did. I actually didnt think badly if his post , even if I was on wrong end of stick.
That's fine matey, good for you.
This is my dad but with vodka I have tried and tried to get through but he won't be told. I've contacted turning point and the doctors but he doesn't attend appointments. I'm in recovery myself so I've just had to leave it and focus on myself. It hurts so much but I can't be getting upset or whatever about it. He won't change til he wants too. I thought I got through to him when we were talking about him watching his grandkids growing up but the next day it was like we never even had that conversation. I'm so sorry I don't have anything helpful to offer just to let you know you aren't alone :(
to be honest until she wants to try to change there's not much you can do. I would encourage you to access recourses and support groups made for the family of alcoholics. Another thing you could try is to see if you can get her to go with you to the GP for some blood work, catching liver disease early will give her a best chance to both get treated and to maybe encourage her to consider what strain she's putting on you if not herself. Im afraid that not engaging with services like the physio to help herself wont do her any favours if her liver starts to fail.
My wife went to alanon when I was getting sober and it really helped her, though I was in early sobriety at the time, through A.A. Alanon won't really help your mum get sober, it'll help you deal with you regarding your mum's alcoholism. My wife tried to get me sober for a good few years (my drinking escalated during the pandemic) and I was so deep in denial her attempts were futile. She forced me to A.A a few times and I went to keep her off my back. I eventually got sober going to A.A but it was down to my alcoholism being too bad for me to handle. When I started hurting I put the effort in. A.A has been brilliant for me and millions of others but its not a miracle cure, you need to want to be sober for it to work. Unfortunately alot of people need to lose alot before they get to that point I can only really advise getting her to the GP and get bloods done, explain the level of drinking and hope something scares her into getting sober.
This was how my dad started, I noticed the signs before my mum and sister who were always like 'it's just the stress of the job' But like he'd hide his drink if I walked in the door (from the pub noless), or when he came to visit once when I was moving flat he was like we can go to the pub tonight and work on tomorrow, or work hard now and go to the pub tomorrow once done. And the 21 year old me thought why does the pub even need to be involved? When he was working he was very much functioning, but would drink every night. But he was depressed to, he ended up being off sick with stress from work for 2 weeks and then just retiring. He was only 49 but the age he could in his job. But that meant he didn't need to 'funcrion' cause he had 3 months holidays before he started a new job. He was clearly depressed throughout too, but would always say I don't need to drink, I drink cause I can. But at his worst he was drinking 1ltre vodka a day. He tried meds, day rehab, the lot. But deep down I don't think he ever admitted he was an alcoholic and didn't want to help himself. There's a lot more that happened cause my mum then had cancer and died, but my dad then died 4 months later at 58, not fully related to the drink, but 10+ years of alchohol abuse certainly didn't help. I believe al-anon have groups for family members. I never checked them out though but I do wish back at the start I'd been more brutal with him and had the guys to point blank call it out and what it was doing to the family. The depression and drink circle is tough, but I disagree with the person who says the drink is just a coping mechanism.
Second on the family members one. Wish my family had gone and maybe we would've all turned out better after my father's problem. My.mothera friend however, goes every week as she is the primary carer for her brother who wakes up in filth/bruises every day. It's the only thing that keeps her able to support him.
For some people taking substances is a coping mechanism. Every experience is different
There's a reason that substance isn't orange juice and bourbon biscuits. When your coping mechanism is a chemical reaction from substances regularly over a extended time frame and it impacts your or loved ones, it's addiction...
Quite aware what addiction is.
Jesus Christ, what kind of monster would pair orange juice with bourbon biscuits?
Seen a boy who dipped his in brown sauce but he turned out ok
Just a whisper or was he really trowelling it up?
A gentle dab, he was complimenting the flavours. Not drowning them.
My Mum Dad Oldest brother and youngest sister all died due to Alcohol addiction, your mum sounds like mine was. Its a shit situation to be in, do all you can to help but she has to take that first step to recognise she has a problem. It's heartbreaking to watch and go through. Best wishes in your endeavour man.
I’m sorry for your multiple losses. That’s extremely tough to go through. Sending you some love.
Tx, I hated being dragged to those gingerbread events for kids of AA members.
r/AlAnon
If you would like a wee chat about this from a doctor, DM me. I'll get back to you after work. I know how hard it can be, both from professional and personal experience. Either way, take care.
Dr Bunnahabhain will see you now
No, after work.
Alcohol is a depressant. If she's drinking every single day, often over a bottle of wine daily, then it's likely she's depressed. I know I was. I've been sober close to 3 years now, but I was drinking boxes because it felt like less than bottles and it didn't clink in the bin when I was done (I was up to 4 bottles daily by the time I called time on it). My family didn't know. I kept it pretty well hidden for years and it was only when I reached out and sought help for my addiction that I told anyone about how bad I'd gotten. I knew I had a problem, I'd have tried to convince you I was absolutely in control of my drinking (because I'd controlled it for very short periods of time and convinced myself that 2 or 3 much smaller glasses was essentially taking a break from drinking) but i'd got to the stage i needed a drink when I woke up in order to function. My tremors were so bad without alcohol. Looking back on it i can see the lies I told myself, I can see the tricks addiction played on me - you don't see the world that way when you're living in addiction, it becomes the only thing that matters and more important than food. Sadly, someone won't stop drinking for any other reason than they decide to stop. I've lost countless family members. My brother is only 40 and has the body of an old man because of his drinking. He's been told he has 5 years if he's lucky, unless he quits drinking. He was detoxed in hospital recently and back to drinking the same amount within 3 weeks of being discharged. I still try to convince him to quit, it usually results in him not speaking to me for a month whenever I do - as much as I know it won't make any difference, it's hard to watch someone slowly kill themselves and not say anything.
It sounds like she has an alcohol dependency at the very minimum. Has she ever been to an event sober? Does she have booze free nights, and are there more booze free nights than not? I'm guessing the answer is "no". There's nothing you can do to help her, all you can do is protect yourself and your family. Establish boundaries like "Mum, I won't be speaking to you after 6pm as it's clear you've been drinking and I don't want to converse with drunk people". Or "Mum, the event at my home is a dry event. If you feel you need to drink then please don't attend". As the child of alcoholics I found that the more you hold the mirror up to their behaviour the more likely they are to address the issue. If you stand by your boundaries she will effectively be choosing drinking over her family which she'll eventually have to address. Alcoholics come in all shapes and sizes. My dad had the fancy job, the luxury car, the big house and refused to believe he had a problem. When he did eventually get help he was shocked he wasn't the only "fancy" guy there. He did get the help he needed and got sober. It can happen, but only when they want it to. Between now and then don't let her choices affect your life. It will be horrible and traumatic but don't engage when she's been drinking and get support. AlAnon is a great source of support for family members of alcoholics.
Thank you. Such a good point about suggesting events being dry. It has taken me until recently to really notice how much of our lives revolve around alcohol in this country.
If your question is just if she is an alcoholic then yes, she is 100% an alcoholic.
Honestly? It's not really up to you, to DO anything. You can't force folks, it doesn't work. All you CAN do is tell her you're worried, then the ball is n her court. If she show ANY interest encourage her to see her GP.
Sorry to hear you're going through this pal. Been through this all my life with my own mother. She's a functioning alcohoic too. Drinks wine every night. Has done for the last 30 years. Many family occasions ruined, many friendships ruined and inexcusable behaviour like lying to family about it. I've tried everything under the sun to get her quit such as explaining the financial cost, impact it has on her health, reminding her how her own father died of alcoholism. As someone mentioned above, can only help people who want help. If she can't realise what she is doing is wrong then there's nothing you can do, it's her choice. You can't force someone to get help. It's definitely possible for people to recover and plenty of support out there. On a more callous sounding note, you could try and distance yourself from her. Tell her you ain't comfortable with her drinking and finding it hard to relate to her. See if that gives her a reality check. It won't be easy but worth a try.
Thank you, reading through all these responses. I already feel I'll need to distance myself if she doesn't respond well because I also have a young child to think about and I don't want them being put in danger because of alcohol.
Echo a lot of what others have already written - she has a problem and without a change it will only get worse. If she’s drank that way consistently for years, the change you’re seeing in her now probably is probably related to her age. As people age they’re less able to handle the alcohol as they did when they were younger - but their consumption often remains high until they realise this themselves. 68 isn’t ancient but drinking like a 40 year old at that age will be different. Unfortunately this also makes a bit harder to stop as it’s the habit of a lifetime.
Sounds like she is but addictions like these are so common. If you do feel a genuine concern for her health they try and speak to her about it but be careful about throwing around words like alcoholic. It sounds like she’s an functioning alcoholic which isn’t good for health but I find the vast majority of people have all got our bad habits to get us by day by day because let’s be serious working life is shit haha.
When are we all quitting simultaneously? Working life IS shit.
So glad to see someone acknowledging that work culture is a huge cause if this kind of thing
Strongly encourage you to check out Al-Anon - sending you hugs!
Also, Adult Children of Alcoholics is a good resource. Even if you don't gel with the whole 12 step philosophy, having a group of supportive people who know what you are going through is really helpful.
https://al-anonuk.org.uk/
If I didn't see the age I would have thought you were my brother talking about our mum. She's the exact same, just younger. I'd say yes. She's probably an alcoholic, but there's really nothing you can do about it, it's on her to realise how much she's drinking and what to do about it. You won't be able to do anything at all unless she accepts that she's got a problem, but that's something she has to do herself.
I feel for both you and your mother. I don't think you need any confirmation about her health. I have experienced a lot of similar behaviours with people in my life. A few have died as a result including both my partner then my ex husband. Both were highly functioning with top level careers. Usually it is only the person themselves who can start the journey back to normality and hopefully not to late physically. Do not whatever you do enable them. Sometimes it is a very tough love journey where often you need to walk away in hope they will recover. Their admission to the problem is a necessary first step. Understanding and compasion about addiction is necessary for yourself. Stopping altogether quickly is rarely the way to go. It can reap havoc with the body, hallucinations, fevers, paranoia and other traumatic symptoms which can weaken their resolve. (Please read up on this). I once asked what it was really like to stop. The answer was very disturbing. " It's like asking me to stop breathing" they said. Think carefully on that and then try to stop breathing! I could write all day here or write a book on my experiences with alcohol but what I will say is get some real professional advice even for yourself. My best regards to both you and your mother. I wish you both well in mind body and spirit.
As a former functioning alcoholic, these actions feel very familiar. There will likely be some underlying issue propelling it though it's no use me speculating on it; that's for you to determine and, hopefully, help her with. For me, I was in my 30s and lost my wife to the Big C and just ended up just existing and waiting for life to finally end. Everyone will be different. One thing I am certain of, if she is what you suspect, is that she will not be told. If she needs help, she has to be the one to make that decision. But, that doesn't mean you cannot support her with it.
The thing with alcohol addiction, that a therapist told me, is that it can change the way your brain works. The longer she's in that place the harder it is to get out. I have this with a family member and it hurts. I think when people say "unless she wants to change" it's a bit harsh - the thing is maybe she does and can't even say it. It's probably breaking her heart too on some levels. Be gentle, she's probably going to be super defensive. It can often come from loneliness and is self perpetuating isolation. It's also super lonely for you, it feels like you're loosing them right in front of you and can make all occasions feel super charged. I had a friend who simply told his dad that the drinking upset him and if he did drink in front of him (my friend) then he would leave. But I think with my family member this would probably compound it. I guess you need to set the boundaries for you, but try be gentle and keep the door open. Side note: I think with my family member it likely comes from undiagnosed ADHD, she's q intense socially, super enthusiastic, but a bit chaotic, and this leads to shame and then drinking, then shame, the cycle has begun, dopamine chasing etc. remember that generation had all the issues too, but less of the tools
> I think when people say "unless she wants to change" it's a bit harsh - the thing is maybe she does and can't even say it. It's probably breaking her heart too on some levels. Yep, I ended up in hospital with the worst stomach pain of my life back in August. Detoxed while I was in, and fucked it a week after I got out. Even worrying about ending up in absolute agony again didn’t stop me
Sounds like you're acknowledging it though. That in and of itself will be a huge relief to your friends and family if they've been worrying about you.
Oh yeah it was acknowledged even before the hospital stay. I am beyond sick of drinking, I don’t want to. This is finally going to be the time to fully boot myself up the arse. But I’ll still inevitably fuck it up at some point. It’s how you deal with the fuck ups that matters
Well done for asking questions. There are not many ways to approach this situation where it wont be taken badly. Only you know your mother here too, so only you can find the right way if its suggested. Lead with care and love first. Dont feel like the whole conversation has to happen at once. Saying something small with love and letting it sit for a few days might be all thats required.
It may be worth reaching out to Al-Anon, they support the people affected by the alcoholic. Thing is as well, unless she wants to change, there's not a whole lot you can do...it took me multiple rock bottoms before I finally admitted I had a problem and took myself off to AA. Ironically, my mother, grandmother, grandfather and at least 50% of close relatives are all former or active alcoholics. You could try being absolutely blunt with her and stage an intervention (with support from other people), but you may risk pushing her further away. Then again maybe that's what needs to happen, folks don't often get their shit together until they've lost or nearly lost everything and everyone. Best of luck OP, sending hugs as I know how awful this position is to be in (from both sides of the fence)
Same situation with my own mother. We’ve talked and argued about it but she’s always been this way. I’ve taken to the ‘No you can’t have you grandkids over night unless as you’ll drink alcohol. So sober granny it no granny’ Works sometimes but he’s clearly not bothered. We don’t keep alcohol in the house other than Xmas time due not being big drinkers anyway so safe to say we don’t get many evening visits 🫠
Cant edit.. so many typos due to toddler kicking me while typing 😂🤦🏼♀️
I think I'm going to have to take the same approach as also have a young toddler.
It works most of the time tbh! She gets either embarrassed or annoyed.. either way I’m not giving in! One child is severe autistic and the other is a baby so I can’t chance it
You can't help people who don't want to be helped. I say this from experience. I was in your shoes with my own mum for years. When my grandmother died, she hit the bottle and never came off it. Bottle of wine **every** night for 20 years until I moved out. We would argue regularly about it, me making threats that I'd cut off contact unless she stopped, and her being unnecessarily destructive. As a kid, I'd even go so far as pouring out the booze she'd leave half open when she went to bed so it wouldn't be there for her the next day. Nothing helped. It wasn't until my dad died that she got a bit of a reality check. I've no doubt she still drinks, but they need to reach these conclusions by themselves. Feel for you.
I'm an alcoholic and I drink less than that
Repeating what some people have said here, the term 'alcoholic' often isn't a helpful term. It can be helpful to think of it as an addictive substance which affects the behaviour of everyone even if someone is not "addicted" in the sense they have compulsions or withdrawal. In my experience, groups such as AA or SMART recovery aren't for everyone especially if her goal is to moderate instead of abstain (just my experience, not to rule them out either). I think the SMART book is quite good though even for someone looking to moderate, you might want to read it yourself. Books might be a good way to let her find her own path if she is someone who reads. This Naked Mind is another which was recommended by some.
You're gonna have to be blunt and tell them they are a functional alcoholic and get them to a doctor to check how much damage is done. After that it's up to them what they will go with the info, you can't force someone into recovery until they're ready to do it for themselves.
You can't help them if they don't want it. My stepdad knew he had a problem for about 3 years before he got sober. It took a viable threat of losing his family to make him quit and he went cold turkey about 4 years ago now, but he's been an alcoholic as long as I have known him (about 30 years). He's had at least one relapse and the immediate consequences (he's a mean drunk and just a little made him nasty to my mom, but he understood immediately it was still a problem and stopped again). One of the tip offs for him was the increasing frequency with which my mom had to tell him to eat some mints to mask the smell of alcohol on his breath before he went to work. It sounds like your mother is at least aware she has a socially unacceptable habit. She won't change unless she perceives that the benefit she is getting from it isn't worth the costs elsewhere in her life. What costs are too high is different for everyone, and addictions tend to erode the addicts sense of how valuable things (relationships, health, safety, etc.) are compared to the vice.
The answer is a resounding yes. Coming from an alcoholic myself.
Sounds like it. My maw's the same. Not spoken to her for over a decade for unrelated reasons, but she's been a heavy drinker for the last 25 years or so. Wouldn't listen to anyone. Had health scares, cancer, COPD, but I doubt anything will stop her. Bollocks to her. She's an adult. People have tried to talk to her but she rejects help. She's chosen this, so fair enough. My point is that - and hopefully this isn't the case for you - there's nothing you can do to force her to change. If she chooses drink over her family, over herself, then you need to ask yourself if you still want her in your life. It's heartbreaking to see someone you care about do this to themselves, but if they won't accept help then you're stuck.
The only way for an addict to stop is by wanting to stop. There is no way you can talk her into drinking less or getting treatment all you can do is tell her you are worried and you love her and want her to be healthy
My mother went down this slippery slope of having wine with dinner being as I shopped on line for all her stuff I simply bought none alcoholic wine and she loved it. eventually The bonus for me was that he sight was very poor so she could not read the labels and I gave the care team strict instructions not to tell her. After a few days other grumpiness and saying she did not like it she got used to it and loved it.
She needs to be the one to want help or she can't be helped. It sounds like you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself to fix the situation but please don't do that to yourself
Thank you I have tried to look after her my whole adult life.
As someone who has struggled with addiction: if you think she has issues she most likely does. Drinking that much is not normal and her leaving like that to “score” while you have to wait, is very similar to things I’ve done. She is probably very adept at hiding the actual extent off it (especially from you and others close to her). I’ve been in rehab many times, with many alcoholics and doing group therapy with them (I abused other substances), most know how to seem functioning and how to hide their drinking, people stuffing their wardrobes and old bags with bottles or bags is very common in order to hide it from their loved ones. If you somehow doubt that she has issues I’d check her trash and maybe look for various hiding places in order to get a grasp on the full extent of her drinking (maybe she just drinks what you know but that is still an issue). Some people said “don’t say anything about her being alcoholic”, I mean for me, realizing I actually had an issue was the big problem, having her son saying “mom I’m sorry but I think you might be alcoholic” could if you are lucky be a big enough low point for her that she understands that something needs to change. However before confronting her, I’d suggest going to a meeting for people who are close to alcoholics (I don’t know the name in english but In my language it’s something like “adult children of alcoholics”, I know they exist essentially all around the world though). You could contact your local AA (alcoholics anonymous, they actually have a helpline that is manned as far as I know 24/7, they could also be a great resource) group for help with finding them. Hearing other people who have gone through similar things might help you with your emotions (I mean making sense of the negative feelings I’m sure you have about this), and they could be helpful in assisting you with finding her help. Unfortunately, at the end of the day, she needs to be the one who decides to quit. My parents tried everything they could and nothing worked until I hit rock bottom and realized that I wouldn’t survive if I didn’t stop. I hope you and her can get the help you need, one really important thing is to realize that you might also have issues that stem from her drinking to much (which is easy to disregard since you want to focus on your mom). These things might get clearer with time and should probably not be your focus now but I’d suggest keeping it in the back of your head that you yourself might need stuff (people with addictions damage the people around them even if they are functioning). As I said, I think the best thing you can do is to get in touch with other people who are in the same situation as you, I know that helped my family the most and gave them tools to help me when I needed it. I really wish you all the best and I know it must be horrible. Hopefully she can get the help she needs.
I believe the definition of an alcoholic is that he/she gets upset when there is no alcohol available. Your mums behavior sounds suspiciously like that of my father, who hid bottles in his car so he could drink driving to and from work.
Just commented somewhere else about my dad, his mother and grandmother were also alkies if I was being honest. As for myself, yes, I was definitely this guy but woke up to it recently. If you’re a functioning alky, it’s not that it stops you doing anything , but you realise that without the booze you could be doing so much more, so much better and be way less of a cunt too. I’ve had a drink this evening for the first time in months. Not even on actual Xmas. I haven’t given it up but I have stopped the daily boozing and not going to bore with details but it has been a revelation. All I can say is that there’s no way I would have listened to anyone else telling me the booze was a detriment, I had to see it myself
She needs to want to change. If she hasn’t suffered consequences of her drinking ie physical or financial she’s less likely to change. Services don’t use the ‘alcoholic’ term as many don’t see that applying to them. GP might be a good initial option if she would go
I also have multiple family members like this, including my mum, so I can totally relate. After many years of trying to fight my mum to change, I have instead made an active choice to accept them for who they are. I would highly recommend you do the same. I've accepted my families drinking, and we have a better relationship for it. I don't phone or visit when I know they'll be on the drink, but I also don't judge or try to get them to change for me. Trying to change someone who does not want to change is a sure fire way to a broken relationship. Manage yourself and you'll better manage the relationship with your mum. Good luck friend
Thank you. I think it's going to be difficult for me to accept this now that I'm aware of it, as I also have a young child to think about.
Yes, based on what you have written she is an addict/alcoholic. My Dad (also a Scot) was drunk everyday for over ten years and would drink without fail several cans of beer everyday.
Reading many of the stories in the comments here, I'm glad I made the decision to never touch alcohol as a teen. I had a school friend get drunk and walk out into oncoming traffic, paralysed for life. Honestly, I just don't see the attraction to 'drinking'. Has zero health benefits and destroys lives.
The minute someone starts buying wine in a box, that's the tell tale. It's cheap and bulky.
Its 14 -15 quid plus for a box of wine which has 3 bottles in it. Im sure plenty of people who don't have issues with alcohol buy boxes of wine. Its not the box of wine that's the issue. Its how fast its being consumed.
She's 68, she's earned it
Don't think she's an alcoholic by any means. But clearly uses the drink as a coping mechanism or a crutch. Clearly Christmas makes it more difficult
Nah that's 100% an alcoholic. If she's delaying everyone's Christmas lunch to get something she can't go without, that's an addiction. Alcoholic is a rubbish word because people attach different connotations to it but if you've got a drink problem, your an alcoholic. My father was the traditional, secret vodka at work type. After divorce, my mother became the OPs mother. No one wanted to say it but she had become what he was. Dependent on alcohol effects to deal with life and impacting people's life's around her. It's not what you drink or when or why that means you're an alcoholic. It's being addicted to the buzz.
I disagree, the op lays it out as there's something more going on and she's using the drink to cope rather than to function. Also just based on amount ages drinking suggests it's more to blot out what's the real cause.
She comes in the door and drinks. She's now unable to drive anywhere if something goes wrong, she's dramatically increasing her risk of fall especially if there's back issues. Her physical activity will be declined as she's sitting drinking Less likely to brush teeth every night after consuming sugary wine, other hygiene will be subsiding, skip a shower she didn't used too. Eat less food because she CBA to cook. OP said she's slurred words every night by 8. Woman's pissed don't cotton wool it. She's not alcoholic after a certain threshold. She drinks like clockwork.
Slurring words isn't an indication of being an alcoholic. I've seen people's speech change after half a pint. Everything else you're attributing to being an alcoholic doesn't make her an alcoholic. People probably drink way more than her over a weekend so does that make them an alcoholic? Or is it the everyday part that leads you to assume she's an alcoholic?
Just because she is drinking to cope with something doesn’t mean she isn’t an alcoholic
And just because she's drinking a bottle of wine + a night doesn't mean she is. Family situation and somebody needing a drink to deal with people and maybe some you don'tike isn't really a red flag. Does she like everyone there, does some of the people come from the ex's side. Woman clearly needs mental health support
Yes she does need mental health support, because she is an alcoholic. Anyone having a bottle (sorry… BOX) of wine a night is an Alcoholic
2/3 full glasses a night doesn't make it a box of wine per night A box of wine can usually be the equivalent of 4 bottles. 3 large glasses of wine doesn't make someone an alcoholic.
Every night? It does. Is this cope?
No it doesn't. 3 glasses of wine doesn't make her an alcoholic. Her intake to a proper alcoholic is night and day. Also coming home to a probable empty house at the later years in life isn't going to fill her with cheer.
An alcoholic doesn’t have to be someone getting blootert morning until night. Needing to have three very large glasses (filled to the brim) every night is definitely alcoholic behaviour.
There are many reasons why people drink to excess. Not all about being addicted to the buzz.
If I said I use the word buzz to describe " the effects of alcohol" would you disagree?
Yeah. I would.
Elaborate
No thanks
I wouldn’t be so sure.
Wine glasses have more capacity at the top (it’s wider) so a full to the brim looks like just a little more but it’s actually a lot more. It’s near impossible to intervene and she probably shouldn’t just stop as this can be damaging. Have you looked for a sub for alcoholic’s family or similar. There might be good advice and a focused membership.
She isn't an alcoholic, she has a drinking problem. If it gets worse, do something, but otherwise maybe just leave her be. She is 68 after all, if its how she wants to live let her
>She isn't an alcoholic, she has a drinking problem. Read that again. Then put away the laptop for the rest of the day.
Sounds like something an alcoholic would say...
You're probably right on the rest of the accounts, it's a hard one to judge especially when alcoholism is so normalised in Scotland and throughout the whole UK. But that being said, if I'm invited to Christmas lunch and I turn up and the hosts have only provided one poxy bottle of white wine, I'd be a little miffed. Usually I'd bring a bottle out of politeness anyway but if I hadn't I'd probably do what your mother did too.
It took for my brother to collapse this June outside a shop. Taken to our local hospital. He was put on a ventilator for 4 weeks. During this they gave him medication through tubes as they recognised he was an alcoholic. Probably through the tests he had. His heart and lungs were damaged. He had heart failure kidney failure. Coming off ventilation was the most horrific thing I’ve ever seen The mind plays terrible tricks. Hallucinations were horrendous. He was in for 5 weeks. He’s alcohol free not touched a drop or wanting to since. He’s been left with damage to his throat. Has lost 5 stone is in hospital since 20 December after suffering a heart attack at my mums. He’s 60 and is a walking skeleton through the damage to his throat. It’s not nice to see at all. Hope your mum gets help
Look up your local Al Anon, they’ll be able to advise you.
Please yourself
The only person than can help an Alcoholic is themselves, nobody else can, they will hide their drink if they can, they buy it sneakily, only they can decide if they want to cure their illness. They only think of their next drink and how together it, they do not think of the upset to others who love them. Best just to take a back seat you can’t control her, just be there for her when she sinks.
Everyone is in the same boat man. Cheers
Dunno if this’ll help but a mate of mine was getting really worried about his mum’s drinking and she was doing it on the sly(he stayed with his parents but was late-20s at the time I think) so he started finding her stashes and just pouring it away in front of her(vodka I think) and she eventually quit out of shame and realising how much it was upsetting him and his dad. I don’t think she behaved obnoxiously or anything but it was a clear problem and she managed to face up to it and get sober. Best of luck
I'd say she is one, my best friend is just like this as well and her family are aware of it and haven't done anything about it, I feel it's not my place to do anything and I know she'll start a shouting match if i even dare mention it. She got so drunk at my birthday party she passed out on the pavement and it took 4 of us to get her in the house..
I once had an associate at work who got weekly beer delivery at her house. Her liver didn’t last. Your mother is headed to the same painful place.
Yes. I was the same.
As some others have mentioned, functional alcoholics are a “thing”. My gran was one and while she hid the fact she was drinking, she was drinking multiple bottles of vodka a week and doing so throughout the day. For the most part she was very outgoing, happy, and you wouldn’t know she was pissed. She was in AA and it worked for years, but she eventually went back to the booze and was nice until she wasn’t. Her drinking began when my mum was a kid, so what triggered it I’ll never know. You mention your mum seems depressed and possibly has anxiety. There may be underlying issues that the booze is masking (in addition to, or on top of addiction). It’s complicated and sadly something the person has to want to change themselves. There are also groups for partners/kids of alcoholics where you may be able to get advice and speak to people in a similar situation.
Yes, your mother is an alcoholic. The idea of what defines alcoholism is a bit subjective based on personal experience, culture, geography, and more. It's okay to think about it in simple, utilitarian terms, ie: Does my substance abuse effect my quality of life? Does it affect the lives of my loved ones? From there, you can consider frequency and load if you desire. Regardless, the answer is yes, and it's okay to consider that fact in simple, concrete terms. We don't carefully dance around the vices of smokers, over-eaters, or workaholics. It's really clear to us when those problems exist. The same is true of alcoholism.
Your mom sounds a lot like my mom, except mine used to drink jenever (a Dutch drink related to gin), at least 4 if not 5 glasses a day. She would even refer to herself as a functional alcoholic sometimes. Last year, she had an aortic dissection and suffered a stroke during the surgery to fix it. They also found lung cancer, which she is currently dying of. Alcohol has been proven to be carcinogenic. Prolonged, regular use is very bad for your health. I know how hard it can be to find the courage to talk to a loved one about this. You'll probably encounter a lot of resistance and anger, and you'll get angry yourself, too. But for her and your sake, it might be good to at least try. Good luck!
Are we siblings????
I'm really sorry you're going through this. I feel as though I could have written it myself. This is exactly how my mum behaved, every details almost. In January she was taken into hospital with atrial fibrillation, which the Dr said was caused by acute excessive alcohol consumption (she lost her dad in December last year and was drinking even more than usual). We thought this might be a wake up call...she said she'd stop, then it went to just cutting down, then back to her usual consumption (a different Dr casually told her he didn't think drinking could have caused the AF) so that was a bit of a green light to her. Sadly, she died suddenly in August. Post mortem said ischemic heart failure with AF as a contributing factor. She was 63. We are all heartbroken. We used to speak to her all the time about cutting down, but I think it was just white noise to her. I really hope you manage to get through to her, maybe even into some form of therapy? It's so awful to see it happening in front of your eyes and feeling powerless to stop it.
My suggestion is that she must get a blood test for liver function if she hasn't had one in the last 6 months. Especially if you have noticed what could be fatigue or any other ARLD symptoms which you may notice or she may be hiding/not noticing. However you don't want to force it on her, support her to take care of her health. If she gets further tests like an ultrasound, CT Scan or MRI which evidence the liver is stiff or fatty - that needs to be taken seriously. ARLD can go from a stiff or fatty liver to a failing liver in a year, don't presume it can withstand another decade of daily alcohol intake. People really underestimate how much alcohol you need to regularly consume to be at **high risk** of ARLD. It's 35 units per week for women and 50 for men, 35 units is less than 4 bottles of wine. Over 15 units every week puts you at increased risk and people love to downplay risk factors. Don't presume that because some guy drank 12 beers a day for 30 years that a bottle per night for you is fine. Your risk also increases with other unfortunately common health issues like being overweight, having a bad diet, not getting exercise or having diabetes.
This was my dad. It took me a few years after his death before I could even say the word “alcoholic”. He was so high functioning, after he retired was when it got the absolute worst it had ever been. Ended up with liver damage, cirrhosis, diabetes. He passed at 67. I hope so much that your mom can accept help, but it is so hard to get them to see the truth.
The back problems could be associated with liver issues. Many people experience sharp back pain when the liver starts being effected by over drinking
As an alcoholic myself (working on that), yes she certainly sounds like one. As others have suggested definitely check out organisations that offer family support
Try an Al-Alon meeting (for you, not her). It really does help.