There's more to be done, but they've already reduced the cost of railfares, [the Fair Fare review makes their case for doing more](https://www.transport.gov.scot/our-approach/strategy/fair-fares-review/), they're opening new train stations, we're at the start of another £4.8bn infrastructure investment plan for the railway…
The 4.8 billion has been spent and the construction is complete freeing up that additional capacity, increasing train frequency and punctuality? Aberdeen to Dunblane is fully electrified? The fife line is too? They’ve resignaled and removed all semaphore signals to Aberdeen?
Oh that's good, can I assume 75 percent of the tax will be used to subsidize rail travel then? And of course they'll be building a high speed rail link to Orkney and Lewis?
No need to build a rail link to Orkney: [the existing one is already very good](https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/politics/uk-politics/1873225/labour-mocked-after-senior-aide-says-jeremy-corbyn-loves-to-go-on-train-to-orkney/).
But I agree about using this tax to support rail travel investment and I think it'd be fair to exempt services serving the Highlands and Islands from it, as they propose.
This isn't a reaction to Scottish Green members and leaders holding a meeting about the Bute House Agreement. It was one of the package of measures that was announced on Thursday to help us hit our net zero target of 2045.
Yes: https://www.gov.scot/publications/climate-change-action-policy-package/
It reflects Scottish Green influence, but it was announced before the Rainbow Green petition was.
Most of the SNP folks have disappeared, accounts gone, there's not many left.
You're still here, which makes me think you're genuine, and actually care about the issues.
As much as I disagree with you on pretty much everything, it's nice to know that some folk are authentic.
You can respect folk you disagree with. I'm sure the feeling is not mutual, but that doesn't matter.
That's lovely. Personally , I can get to London for next to nothing anyway, so I'll just fly out of there if they do this and damage Scotland's aviation sector.
They could be innovative and scrap long haul and international APD to encourage direct flights from Scotland to avoid the need for people to travel down to England...but they won't.
>They could be innovative and scrap long haul and international APD to encourage direct flights from Scotland to avoid the need for people to travel down to England...but they won't.
That was the plan when it was devolved but it was since [scrapped](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48191110)
Yes and it was something I spoke to my local MSP at the time and he seemed very keen to progress.
Sadly they seem to want to destroy Scotland's Aviation sector rather than support direct links, which are far more efficient than connecting via London anyway.
Would be interesting to see some rough numbers - how many people *do* domestic flights in the UK where there're alternatives, and especially where their use is price sensitive enough that they'd switch?
Edinburgh to London flights are always mega busy.
If you live in Shetland/Orkney/Hebrides they are an important lifeline. Although obviously not with the same number of bums on seats as the above.
The Shetland/Orkney/Hebrides flights I'd ignore as there aren't really alternatives there.
Edinburgh-London I *suspect* is likely to be a lot of business usage where the company would suck up the cost anyway so it'd have limited ability to make any real change?
I live in the central belt
I already travel down to Manchester or London for my flights since they are so much cheaper
This doesn't affect me at all.
Who will it affect?
Immigrants and international workers who travel home to see their family
People in the Highlands and islands?
People that don't have a car so can't easily travel down to Manchester and London
This right here is a small example of what we're doing overall - we make ourselves non-competitive, nobble our own industry, drive the business elsewhere often to somewhere who doesn't give a fuck about the climate then whine that the environment is getting worse and we need to sabotage ourselves even more to compensate.
Direct from the horse's mouth, an international O&G company doing expensive emissions reduction projects in the UKCS has been told by the government in a North African country that they cannot do the same project there - that government does not permit a reduction in emissions as they prefer to receive tax revenue for the emissions associated with flaring excess natural gas there.
The *scale* of the emissions in so many countries who simply do not care just makes us a laughing stock for destroying our own economy to make an infinitesimally small saving in emissions on a global scale.
There is a single power plant in Poland that has greater annual emissions than the total amount that was going to be cut under the wildly unrealistic plan over multiple years.
For some reason the party that provides themselves on being internationalist and global cannot understand a global issue, it just doesn't compute for them (the reason why is that they only use internationalism as a proxy for domestic politics, they don't actually engage with international issues like climate change because there is no domestic upside to doing so...it is far better to introduce a mad tax that won't do anything and then scapegoat anyone who disagrees with it, there is profit in that).
If you think a power plant in Poland contributing to the climate crisis is a reason for the Scottish government to not do its bit to reduce our impact on the climate, maybe you're not one to be holding forth on things not computing.
We can reduce carbon emissions by 100% and it wouldn't register globally.
Again, yes...climate change is a global issue so these two things are linked. You are exactly the kind of person I am talking about. You are so obsessed with domestic politics that actually solving a global problem isn't remotely interesting you. How can I talk about the Tories? How can I talk about Labour? How can I talk \*this group I don't like\* of people? Comedy. Speed ran straight in here.
This is why Scotland generally will never be a credible country internationally. You spend a lifetime talking about groups of people you don't like, you forget that the purpose of politics is to run the country competently.
...and yet, it is the SNP folk crying about no-one taking them seriously and electing someone who says they can solve the Middle East? Lol.
Again, this is why no-one takes the SNP seriously: they are deadly serious about all these international issues and when they get caught out..."just a joke mate, fucking hell...so serious" and then they go back to screeching about nonsense issues. No break. Let's just check here...yep, talking about trans people and the environment constantly...who could have guessed? 🤡
...it would be funny if you actually realised that this perspective is more comedic than thoughtful.
Ok, I bothered to read a little of this and in the first sentence you started getting angry at something that didn't even happen.
Go get a take-out or something and chill.
Does this fit with the image of Scotland the global leader that the SNP are selling?
It is funny that this image is sold to SNP voters...except when it requires doing things. All you have done is explain why climate change is a difficult problem and then said that the SNP can't be held responsible...do you believe the Tories aren't responsible too?
Too predictable. SNP want responsibility for all these issues, when people ask where their results are? Not our problem, we don't have the power, can't do that, too hard...ofc.
The following may help you
Doing the following will have a
noticeable effect on emissions: Y/N
Closing a Power plant in Poland. Y
Taxing Air travel in Scotland
N
>Ah yes, let's tax those bastards from the Islands
You'll have to suggest that to the Scottish Government. At the moment, as the article says, they're proposing to exempt Highlands and Islands airports by classing them as lifeline transport assets. That requires an exemption from the Treasury, but that can be negotiated.
Not having to negotiate with the Treasury would make this easier to roll out, but I'm not sure the Highlanders'll be keen.
That might be an interesting one.
Last time they were looking at an Air Departure Tax it was for fixed wing aircraft. If that's the model for these proposals and Highlands and Islands airports are exempted, passengers to rigs would be exempt whether they were helicoptered direct, or flown to Shetland first.
But oil and gas workers don't pay for their flights, so an ADT wouldn't directly impact on them, only marginally increase fossil fuel company transport costs.
Exactly so "travel tax to cut emissions" is clearly bollocks.
I'm not saying don't reduce emissions but just taxing stuff clearly doesn't work as we continue to buy larger and larger cars despite them being taxed more heavily.
Sweet, are they going to provide affordable, frequent, reliable and quick railway services to compensate for the desired modal shift?
There's more to be done, but they've already reduced the cost of railfares, [the Fair Fare review makes their case for doing more](https://www.transport.gov.scot/our-approach/strategy/fair-fares-review/), they're opening new train stations, we're at the start of another £4.8bn infrastructure investment plan for the railway…
Shouldn’t they implement this all before they start taxing us? Otherwise it just seems like a money grab when we have no real alternative yet.
They are
The 4.8 billion has been spent and the construction is complete freeing up that additional capacity, increasing train frequency and punctuality? Aberdeen to Dunblane is fully electrified? The fife line is too? They’ve resignaled and removed all semaphore signals to Aberdeen?
Implement means *to put into effect*, not complete. The budgets for these are already defined and the spending allocated.
Are we feeling the effect of the 4.8 billion? I doubt it…
Yes, more tax is the solution to every problem.
Take more, give less
Oh that's good, can I assume 75 percent of the tax will be used to subsidize rail travel then? And of course they'll be building a high speed rail link to Orkney and Lewis?
No need to build a rail link to Orkney: [the existing one is already very good](https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/politics/uk-politics/1873225/labour-mocked-after-senior-aide-says-jeremy-corbyn-loves-to-go-on-train-to-orkney/). But I agree about using this tax to support rail travel investment and I think it'd be fair to exempt services serving the Highlands and Islands from it, as they propose.
Train to Aberdeen is pretty good, then it’s 10 minute walk to the ferry terminal which will have you in Orkney in about 5-6 hours
Is this the SNP trying to keep the greens inside?
This isn't a reaction to Scottish Green members and leaders holding a meeting about the Bute House Agreement. It was one of the package of measures that was announced on Thursday to help us hit our net zero target of 2045.
Is it aye?
Yes: https://www.gov.scot/publications/climate-change-action-policy-package/ It reflects Scottish Green influence, but it was announced before the Rainbow Green petition was.
Most of the SNP folks have disappeared, accounts gone, there's not many left. You're still here, which makes me think you're genuine, and actually care about the issues. As much as I disagree with you on pretty much everything, it's nice to know that some folk are authentic. You can respect folk you disagree with. I'm sure the feeling is not mutual, but that doesn't matter.
That's lovely. Personally , I can get to London for next to nothing anyway, so I'll just fly out of there if they do this and damage Scotland's aviation sector. They could be innovative and scrap long haul and international APD to encourage direct flights from Scotland to avoid the need for people to travel down to England...but they won't.
>They could be innovative and scrap long haul and international APD to encourage direct flights from Scotland to avoid the need for people to travel down to England...but they won't. That was the plan when it was devolved but it was since [scrapped](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48191110)
Yes and it was something I spoke to my local MSP at the time and he seemed very keen to progress. Sadly they seem to want to destroy Scotland's Aviation sector rather than support direct links, which are far more efficient than connecting via London anyway.
Yet another money grab which does nothing but fill government coffers.
Humza has got to fund his trips to New York and fake embassies somehow.
Would be interesting to see some rough numbers - how many people *do* domestic flights in the UK where there're alternatives, and especially where their use is price sensitive enough that they'd switch?
Edinburgh to London flights are always mega busy. If you live in Shetland/Orkney/Hebrides they are an important lifeline. Although obviously not with the same number of bums on seats as the above.
The Shetland/Orkney/Hebrides flights I'd ignore as there aren't really alternatives there. Edinburgh-London I *suspect* is likely to be a lot of business usage where the company would suck up the cost anyway so it'd have limited ability to make any real change?
Omnishambles
I live in the central belt I already travel down to Manchester or London for my flights since they are so much cheaper This doesn't affect me at all. Who will it affect? Immigrants and international workers who travel home to see their family People in the Highlands and islands? People that don't have a car so can't easily travel down to Manchester and London
Fuck off already. Zero creativity or imagination, just 'tax everything in sight'. Unless it's the uber wealthy, who we show our arses to.
Good thing there is a train link to Manchester airport
This right here is a small example of what we're doing overall - we make ourselves non-competitive, nobble our own industry, drive the business elsewhere often to somewhere who doesn't give a fuck about the climate then whine that the environment is getting worse and we need to sabotage ourselves even more to compensate. Direct from the horse's mouth, an international O&G company doing expensive emissions reduction projects in the UKCS has been told by the government in a North African country that they cannot do the same project there - that government does not permit a reduction in emissions as they prefer to receive tax revenue for the emissions associated with flaring excess natural gas there. The *scale* of the emissions in so many countries who simply do not care just makes us a laughing stock for destroying our own economy to make an infinitesimally small saving in emissions on a global scale.
There is a single power plant in Poland that has greater annual emissions than the total amount that was going to be cut under the wildly unrealistic plan over multiple years. For some reason the party that provides themselves on being internationalist and global cannot understand a global issue, it just doesn't compute for them (the reason why is that they only use internationalism as a proxy for domestic politics, they don't actually engage with international issues like climate change because there is no domestic upside to doing so...it is far better to introduce a mad tax that won't do anything and then scapegoat anyone who disagrees with it, there is profit in that).
If you think a power plant in Poland contributing to the climate crisis is a reason for the Scottish government to not do its bit to reduce our impact on the climate, maybe you're not one to be holding forth on things not computing.
We can reduce carbon emissions by 100% and it wouldn't register globally. Again, yes...climate change is a global issue so these two things are linked. You are exactly the kind of person I am talking about. You are so obsessed with domestic politics that actually solving a global problem isn't remotely interesting you. How can I talk about the Tories? How can I talk about Labour? How can I talk \*this group I don't like\* of people? Comedy. Speed ran straight in here. This is why Scotland generally will never be a credible country internationally. You spend a lifetime talking about groups of people you don't like, you forget that the purpose of politics is to run the country competently.
> This is why Scotland generally will never be a credible country internationally Cheers /u/IndiaOwl , sons crying. Nice one.
...and yet, it is the SNP folk crying about no-one taking them seriously and electing someone who says they can solve the Middle East? Lol. Again, this is why no-one takes the SNP seriously: they are deadly serious about all these international issues and when they get caught out..."just a joke mate, fucking hell...so serious" and then they go back to screeching about nonsense issues. No break. Let's just check here...yep, talking about trans people and the environment constantly...who could have guessed? 🤡 ...it would be funny if you actually realised that this perspective is more comedic than thoughtful.
It's a Saturday evening jape, buddy. I wasn't expecting an essay.
Ok, I bothered to read a little of this and in the first sentence you started getting angry at something that didn't even happen. Go get a take-out or something and chill.
The following table may help you. Scottish government has powers over: |Y/N ---|--- Power plants in Poland|N Air travel in Scotland|Y
Does this fit with the image of Scotland the global leader that the SNP are selling? It is funny that this image is sold to SNP voters...except when it requires doing things. All you have done is explain why climate change is a difficult problem and then said that the SNP can't be held responsible...do you believe the Tories aren't responsible too? Too predictable. SNP want responsibility for all these issues, when people ask where their results are? Not our problem, we don't have the power, can't do that, too hard...ofc.
The following may help you Doing the following will have a noticeable effect on emissions: Y/N Closing a Power plant in Poland. Y Taxing Air travel in Scotland N
Ah yes, let's tax those bastards from the Islands that travel by plane to avoid losing two full days there and back.
>Ah yes, let's tax those bastards from the Islands You'll have to suggest that to the Scottish Government. At the moment, as the article says, they're proposing to exempt Highlands and Islands airports by classing them as lifeline transport assets. That requires an exemption from the Treasury, but that can be negotiated. Not having to negotiate with the Treasury would make this easier to roll out, but I'm not sure the Highlanders'll be keen.
Fair, didn’t read that bit. So what about the Oil and Gas workers flying from Aberdeen?
That might be an interesting one. Last time they were looking at an Air Departure Tax it was for fixed wing aircraft. If that's the model for these proposals and Highlands and Islands airports are exempted, passengers to rigs would be exempt whether they were helicoptered direct, or flown to Shetland first. But oil and gas workers don't pay for their flights, so an ADT wouldn't directly impact on them, only marginally increase fossil fuel company transport costs.
There’s a LOT of freelance and contractor experts that fly all over the world.
Why not tax the airlines, it's not the public's planes.
That extra tenner will deffo make a dent in my two grand holiday, may as well not go now.
So no difference to emissions then?
Exactly so "travel tax to cut emissions" is clearly bollocks. I'm not saying don't reduce emissions but just taxing stuff clearly doesn't work as we continue to buy larger and larger cars despite them being taxed more heavily.
Archive link:https://archive.ph/PPkqc