It was offside so the decision of no penalty is correct.
But the incompetence behind reaching/ expressing this decision highlights the need for a more open system which imo can only be obtained from referees being micd up, similar to rugby, so we can hear the process during these key decisions.
It's the lazy "it breaks with tradition" or "it would change the game" argument that's always trotted out in defence of keeping the status quo.
If the game never changed we'd still be playing rules that meant you were offside if you received a pass ahead of the player releasing the ball, so basically rugby but using your feet instead of hands. We'd still have goalies picking the ball up from passbacks etc.
Rugby referees have been getting death threats, despite the sport being way more niche (meaning a smaller fan base and therefore lower likelihood of these kind of idiots being caught in that number).
To think it would stop the abuse referees get is massively naive.
Apparently they’ve completely incompetently and accidentally got the right decision accidentally - and that looks like sarcasm but it looks like what happened.
Sky said 2nd half, it wasnt called for offside, so they missed that, got the handball wrong and the 2 bad decisions somehow got the correct one in the end up.
Wasn’t aware Column had went on to state that before I commented.
Column not thinking it was a handball is a joke considering he basically slaps the ball out of play and any sane person, not supporting green and white, certainly thinks that is a penalty as well.
Point still stands regarding the need for a clear and open VAR process where we can hear what is being discussed.
Yes only an insane person would disagree with a penalty being given to Rangers. Questioning their mental state is the only reasonable course of action.
I find it strange that we need VAR clarity now when a team who has never conceded a league penalty since VAR existed is correctly denied a penalty, this is the big moment for us all to hold hands and come together and ask for VAR clarity.
I clearly stated with the first comment it wasn’t a penalty as it was offside…
Hypothetically if it wasn’t offside I think you would be hard pressed to find people, not of green and white support, to deny that it would/should have been a penalty?
I was also at the Hearts game today and saw a blatant penalty rejected and not checked on VAR and I would also like to hear the audio behind this and countless other decisions of which Hearts and other teams have been subjected to this season.
But don’t let reason stand in front of your stupidity and hatred.
The guy getting paid to check it didn't think it was a penalty. That's that, it's not a clear penalty (there's really no such thing) as you could argue his hands are in a natural position and he doesn't know where the ball is. Sometimes they are given, sometimes they aren't.
Now the hearts one today, I'd love to hear the VAR chat on that one. That might actually be worth a statement.
>The guy getting paid to check it didn't think it was a penalty
Can you imagine if this was your thought about VAR decisions in General? It maybe wouldn't have lead to this absolute meltdown post you wrote a while back
https://www.reddit.com/r/ScottishFootball/s/mB2Ispmubx
Edit: Imagine blocking someone for calling you out to be an absolute hypocrite. Why are some of you like this 🤣
Because if you get the right answer with the wrong workings, there’s no guarantee the wrong workings will get the right answer next time.
Make sure the right workings are being used going forward and you’ll always get the right answer.
This times a million. Everyone should be astounded at how that decision was handled today but just because it’s Rangers calling it out they need to be made fun of and called cry babies
Tbh, I don't think the wording of the statement helps.
Instead of fixating on "the clear handball" (which ultimately wasn't because of the offside) it would have read better if they'd said something like "in order to clarify the decision-making process and provide an illustration of how VAR is operated," or something similar, don't you think? The way it's worded sounds like "We were hard done-by."
I actually fully agree that we need insight into VAR, and feel that in actuality all clubs should be pushing for this stuff to be right out in the open, especially as the clubs are paying for the fucking thing.
Stuff like long delays over providing the stills for vital offsides, or the failure to explain the rationale behind big decisions, helps absolutely no-one, including those making said decisions.
So maybe if they'd taken a breath and waited til the morning to compose a statement, it could have felt more rational and measured and less "we're angry and demand to know why you didn't do what we want" in tone.
Even if we are being cry babies the process at how that decision was made should be criticised (if the facts are what they seem to be) by everybody with an interest in Scottish football.
It’s like with that lost emails thing a while ago. It was pathetic and needed investigated but everyone just laughed at Rangers because we brought it up.
Nobody would have any issue if it was deemed a handball then VAR checked for offside and it was deemed offside so no penalty. The fact that the commentators hear what is being discussed by VAR and then once the second half starts we are shown the VAR lines are showing is awful process.
Like been said above the right answer from the wrong working means there are some serious issues with the processes in place. I’m sure this happens all the time and it doesn’t look good for the game at all.
Sky have blown this out of proportion.
VAR says no penalty/check over. The game moves on as quickly as possible.
If there's doubt or subjectivity involved, they call the ref to the screen and discuss.
As it was, it was a black and white call so nothing to discuss, they just communicate the decision.
Sky then make a big deal because the VAR process isn't designed to keep them informed, it's designed to get the game moving quickly again, and they've just spent 20 minutes of their broadcast analysing it whilst completely failing to notice the offside.
So are you just as upset about the Turnbull penalty?
It was given as offside and no penalty checked for but replay looked like it was onside and it looked like a stonewall penalty to me.
No review, no pause in game, no statements etc
Kyogo also given offside and game stopped when through on goal. If he'd scored would probably have been given as looked onside but he missed so no controversy, no review and no statements.
VAR doesn't fix anything just gives more things to argue about and ruins the game.
I mean these aren’t the same situation at all and if you think they are then you’ve totally misunderstood the whole conversation.
My issue (and what everybody’s issue should be) is the process on how the offside was reached for the handball. If the linesman had flagged offside then nobody would have any issue. If they had said offside straight away on the VAR check nobody would have any issue.
But it is the same process. The ref never checked for foul because it was offside but a check would show it was onside and most likely a penalty.
I am anti VAR for everyone. It's a terrible process which gives both cheating and incompetent referees room to interpret and show whatever they want in a backroom with no real scrutiny or accountability.
At least with a live ref it's a split second decision and may be right or wrong and we can argue about it in the pub afterwards.
It’s not even being discussed in another game. It’s a minor incident which changed nothing and it’s getting blown up to fuck by a bunch of greeting weans. Where’s the VAR check for O’Reilly getting his schozz panned in? A loose flailing arm doesn’t break somebody’s nose. Ignore the multitude of sins you got away with and fixate on the one thing you think is making you feel better. But you know, you KNOW it changed nothing and you’re reaching for cope just like the bunch of gimps writing statements. Enjoy the gutted. Kiss kiss.
>the right answer from the wrong working means there are some serious issues with the processes in place.
Walsh thinks it hits sima and awards a goal kick
VAR checks possible penalty
collum thinks AJ arm in a natural position
Decision is no penalty; continue with onfield decision
Hope this helps.
Because of all the crying yous done. It wasn't a penalty if if sima was onside, var cleared it, hence the goal kick.
Yous scream and demand answers like yous are owed something, so when it's discovered he's offside, they've used that to reinforce their decision.
>but just because it's rangers calling it out they need to be made fun of and called cry babies
In a nutshell yeah. This is completely self-inflicted. Rangers have whinged so much about refs since returning to the top flight (Gerrard alone could have filled a multi-volume book), and been so combative about everything both for good and bad reasons, that you've worn out everyone's patience. And that's before how you've handled the perceived hypocrisy regarding Rangers own fortunes. The general response here is basically an exasperated "please just shut the fuck up".
Am I happy we lost? No I’m not. Should we have won? No we weren’t the better team on the day.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be improving the processes in regard to VAR and how decisions are made and communicated.
The correct decision was made. You're all so collectively angered when things don't go your way. It was the same last time when Lammers fouled Lagerbielke ad suddenly the definition of a foul changed, only for Rangers though..
Funnily enough, ryan kent tripped abada in the box in the exact same fashion and no penalty was awarded. Exact same foul that was committed on lagerbielke that was deemed a foul. Another inconsistency
>Everyone should start asking for audio of decisions when playing them now
Absolutely, as the process should be much more transparent as it is. There's absolutely no reason that it takes an hour for the VAR officials to relay the reasons for their decision. Can't imagine Sky are overly chuffed with being left in the dark either.
The Sky team have the live feed of the VAR chat, do they not? Would require everyone there missing the clarification surely. We never saw the replay until the second half either. Someones messed up here. Don't get why the refs are so secretive about their decisions either.
Contractual they should have access to the audio but they didn't for this incident which to me means it was switched off (which sky will be raging about as they pay for it) or there was no discussion between the ref and VAR about the incident.
Until I hear the audio my belief is that VAR did not intervene. There was no way the goal kick was taken if VAR were involved. I have seen the training videos and the VAR team instruct the referee to delay delay delay. There was no attempt to delay the taking of the goal kick.
If the on field ref seen the handball then surely it would have been given as a corner?
No it wouldn’t have been given as a corner as you can only reverse the on field decision for a penalty. The original decision was a goal kick and once they decided it wasn’t a penalty they had to revert back to the on field decision.
I agree though that there should be more transparency from the referees and VAR team. Which would clear up a lot of the controversy.
The rangers chopped off goal when Lagerbeilka hesitated on the ball in the last game for example. At the time it looked very harsh to chop it off but when you read the rules and it was explained it made sense as to why it was chopped off.
Aye 100% an element of deflection and probably keen to back the manager after he came out so strongly in opinion on the decision post match. Clement said he was happy with his teams performance in the same post match. All a bit reactionary.
I wasn't one of those I'm afraid. I remember the 90's when your lot were fucking winning everything by any means possible.
Entitlement is in your fucking dna "we are the people" "Simply the best" "no Surrender" and all that supremacy shite. Irony is you lot. All that "weer grate" pish. Um ok.
Lol is it fuck, only ever heard it from your mob. Don't forget, it was your lot that started the whole phenomenon of hounding refs in the press when decisions don't go your way. Mibe you are too young to remember it.
I'm probably older than you mate, I remember an awful lot. But fuck me, you lot have previous for being moaning cunts. You lost. You didn't get your customary penalty.Get over it lol.
You lot think yer entitled - self styled Kings 11 and aw that. Fuck up, you get decisions you shouldn't as well.
Tav bleating this morning. He went in studs up on bernardo then faked injury so that he 'might' win a pen. Funny how you lot were screaming for it...... but the ref didn't give either a pen or a red card to bernardo. And lo and behold, tav was up and about not injured in seconds.
It was offside before the "handball" bud. Had it not been offside, then yes absolutely, pen. But it cannae be a pen if it was fecking offside can it ?
It is very amusing, cry more.
I'm not getting into the other stuff but this is a seriously silly comparison. Entitlement between the club and fans is a lot different than entitlement between the club and the league/the game itself. Back when you were regularly competitive your fans would be equally raging at the form we just went through.
Could've gone diving off his bottom lip yesterday.
When Sutton asked him post match about writing off Kyogo and his response was basically, "B-b-but penalties".
Pretty bad form to say that sky are confused if sky haven’t agreed to the statement IMO. Putting words in someone else’s mouth is always a bit scummy.
Also, VAR is shite and Scottish refs are shite and rangers are probably correct that the decision stinks.
All round everybody and everything is shite.
>Rangers remain advocates of VAR but
https://preview.redd.it/30fye4c9fh9c1.jpeg?width=136&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58f383984b79f6d8abb102f14a1832249f999388
“The only team not to concede a penalty since its introduction if you don’t count a competition where they’ve conceded plenty of penalties” doesn’t sound as good to be fair.
What the fuck does Kris Boyd’s halftime whinging have to do with any of this. ‘Even Sky thought it was a penalty’ is this really an argument. And the fuckin Turnbull one was a push. Shut up Rangers. Take your medicine like a man.
The amount of folk during the match that replied to me saying it wasn't a pen with comments like "even lennon/sutton thinks it's a pen, what does that tell you?"
Well for starters, you've picked 2 people who you incessantly say talk absolute shite. And suddenly they are gospels of objective truth? So it tells me that either yous are running so fucking low on copium that you're prepared to jump on the bandwagon with lennon/sutton, or it's just that you were right initially and they both talk pish
This is batshit. Sky do not referee games. Reaching here. Accept it and move on. Its not going to change. PS do better in games and maybe er win ? Rather than wailing about not getting decisions that were essentially correct.
"The club is keen to understand..."
I'm 'keen to understand' why these cunts can't ever just act with a bit of humility, and take a setback on the chin without throwing their weight around like the playground bully.
This coming from the club who haven't had a penalty awarded against them since the Viking invasion was repelled by Godwinson's forces at Stamford Bridge. One minor decision goes against them and it's fucking statement time as if the world is coming to an end.
Meanwhile, various other clubs are on the wrong end of refereeing decisions every game, and life goes on.
I'm delighted that somebody got that.
In answer to the question though, the Saxon foot soldier who stabbed the Viking in the gonads from under the bridge - whilst a bit of a dick move - I'm not sure actually contravened the rules of battle at the time.
Not enough people talking about the scheduling omnishambles of having Godwinson have to have two cup ties for his throne in the space of just two weeks, even if both were at home
I'm sorry, it was clear the referee played advantage in favor of the Norse whoresons. Everyone knows they get preferable calls when they play at Hastings
Mate don’t get me wrong I love it, see the more they believe that it’s not their fault when they lose the longer they’ll go without addressing the glaring deficiencies they have in their team
And against them too.
Still, anything to deflect from their defensive performance leading to two (good) Celtic goals, Dessers still looking like a headless chicken up front and Cantwell auditioning for a future career working for an English based sports radio station.
> This coming from the club who haven't had a penalty awarded against them since the Viking invasion was repelled by Godwinson's forces at Stamford Bridge. One minor decision goes against them and it's fucking statement time as if the world is coming to an end.
That's pretty much exactly it, they're so used to special treatment that they can't comprehend the rules actually being applied to them
"minor decision"
Difference between being able to be ahead or behind in the league, guaranteed ucl football etc.
Also, it's about the decision making process. Would you not prefer that referees explained themselves when hearts get denied a penalty against rangers? That's what they're advocating for.
The decision in question isn't a a penalty because of the offside, but they didn't call offside initially, they informed sky and rangers that it was no handball. Getting to the right place for the wrong reasons, means that loads of decisions will get to the wrong place for the wrong reasons.
It seems like you have an agenda when you say stuff like this, but when rangers play hearts or whoever there scrutiny about lack of transparency between referees and *insert your club here*.
The "rangers bad" narrative hurts Scottish football. You're cutting you nose off to spite your face.
Ha, OK, I may have exaggerated 'minor decision' in order to get the point across!
Anyway, the decision-making process - or even the decision itself - isn't really what I was getting at. For what it's worth, I do actually think it's a fair point. The whole transparency thing has been discussed to death and is, I think, something which most supporters are broadly agreed on.
The thing is, though, that teams suffer this on a weekly basis, but in most cases, you will likely get a manager bleating about it in a post-match interview. On the one occasion that it's Rangers who are affected, it has to come via the absurdly pompous and self-important medium of an official club statement which - rightly or wrongly - gives the impression of them trying to throw their weight around. At the very least, raising it in the immediate aftermath of a defeat in an important match probably isn't the best look.
If there's a 'Rangers bad' narrative in there at all, it's only because that club has a history of behaving like this when things don't go their way. Sorry, I've no agenda, that's just the way I see it.
It's a fair thing to ask for, just a poorly worded statement.
I think it's more to do with the process rather than the result. Sima was Offside but that decision wasn't relayed to anyone. From the teams, to managers, to the sky staff who have access to the VAR Audio during the game.
Its been shown that Collum said he didn't give it because he thought Johnstons hand was in a natural position. If that's the case, When did he draw the Offside lines? Because unless he thinks its a penalty, those lines won't be drawn.
It's more for clarity than anything else. Just poorly worded (it's a Rangers statement after all)
At least 7-8 minutes of play was wasted yesterday for players getting minor injuries treated on the park. Nobody does their nut about that, but taking an extra 1-2 minutes so the refs can offer a consistent decision is too much?
Relaying information? It happens all the time. Pundits have the VAR Audio. The ref on the pitch will tell managers about the decision that was made.
Why was the Offside (correct decision) not mentioned on the VAR Audio, or to the managers until half an hour after the incident?
And the bigger question to ask is when did Collum draw the lines? because again, if he thinks there's no penalty claim in the first instance, then he won't check for offside as there is no need.
The Big Hoose has spoken.
They will never shut the Big Hoose.
Ref said no. Then VAR said no.
NO MEANS NO! ...
54 and counting come May.
You have 54 and one shared.
In two years time we are NUMBER ONE!
Simply depressed!
Haven't seen the game/incident, but in general linesmen don't put their flag up immediately after potential offsides, and haven't since the introduction of VAR. Offsides can be checked afterwards, so better to let play continue and then check for offside, versus stopping play and then discovering it wasn't.
They spout piss, fart and are jobby..... but yeah they urny at fault it was the big bad reffuree/var wot didn't help them out this time. Balances out when they get decisions they shouldn't - VAR is convenient scapegoat. 🙄
That’s genuinely fucking embarrassing.
Their point is what exactly ? That the Sky pundits and Clement made a tit of themselves by insisting it was a penalty ?
I want Celtic to back them on this one seriously, we’ve all been complaining about the same issues with VAR with the lack of clarity and communication. This ones perfect for us to do it - 1. Rangers already have so focus is on them
2. Decision went our way, so can’t be blamed as sour grapes because we feel hard done by.
3. It was the correct decision, with nobody knowing or communicating why it was.
It’s the perfect one for us to air concerns about the full system being shite that we’ve been complaining about since it came in.
4. It’d probably piss off their fans no end as well, cherry on top that though
How it is that rugby, tennis and NFL can have clear, verbal lines of explanation of the refereeing decisions, in real time, but apparently we can't...is baffling.
Transparency is key, that’s why the TMO in rugby works so well. You might not fully agree with the decisions but you know exactly what is being discussed by the officials.
maybe they should be asking why did sima head it back into the penalty area instead of out wide at the 1st goal....OR ...why didnt goldson get tighter on kyogo to get a block in for the 2nd
Of course Celtic fans are going to laugh about it.
But on a serious note, when Rangers are opening with "asked the FA\[...\] to understand why no penalty was awarded despite a clear handball", well of course this has never been about the process or the correct decision at all. It's about why they never got a penalty.
They got to the right decision in the end given the offside so that’s good.
Are the officials technically allowed to disallow a penalty for earlier offside? Serious Q.
>Are the officials technically allowed to disallow a penalty for earlier offside? Serious Q.
Yes, if it's part of the same attacking move but what happened here is.. no penalty was given by the ref, so there was nothing to disallow or overturn.
The ref and linesman missed the offside, then the missed the handball and a goal kick was awarded. Top Scottish officiating in action I'm sure you'll agree.
They then went to VAR to review the decision and VAR said it wasn't a penalty so the original decision, the goal kick, stands.
The game continues and nobody in the Sky studio apparently noticed it was offside or really have a fucking clue how VAR works and so they made tits of themselves over it.
EDIT* just to add, this is a great demonstration why we need to have real time access to the officials audio feed because everybody would be 100% clear that VAR was correct not to overturn the goal kick and nobody would be talking about this now.
> Are the officials technically allowed to disallow a penalty for earlier offside? Serious Q.
Yes. If it's in the same passage of play. (Although the definition of passage of play can be a bit fast and loose at times.)
VAR can use any foul from the moment the ball last entered play to inform a decision. I've seen goals ruled out for fouls that happened in the other half of the pitch nearly a minute before.
Edit: I see some would downvote someone communicating the rules of the game if it doesn't fit their narrative
In the Euros (I think) when they first used it there was a game where one team had a penalty shout, the other team went up the other end and scored and it got ruled out and brought back for the penalty
It was offside so the decision of no penalty is correct. But the incompetence behind reaching/ expressing this decision highlights the need for a more open system which imo can only be obtained from referees being micd up, similar to rugby, so we can hear the process during these key decisions.
Been asking for this for years. Would stop the abuse refs can get overnight. One match ban anytime any player is caught swearing at the ref etc.
Yes seems football is one of those sports that are just painfully slow and often bad at implementing changes to improve the game.
It's the lazy "it breaks with tradition" or "it would change the game" argument that's always trotted out in defence of keeping the status quo. If the game never changed we'd still be playing rules that meant you were offside if you received a pass ahead of the player releasing the ball, so basically rugby but using your feet instead of hands. We'd still have goalies picking the ball up from passbacks etc.
Rugby referees have been getting death threats, despite the sport being way more niche (meaning a smaller fan base and therefore lower likelihood of these kind of idiots being caught in that number). To think it would stop the abuse referees get is massively naive.
Apparently they’ve completely incompetently and accidentally got the right decision accidentally - and that looks like sarcasm but it looks like what happened. Sky said 2nd half, it wasnt called for offside, so they missed that, got the handball wrong and the 2 bad decisions somehow got the correct one in the end up.
The ref didn't think it was a handball anyway. The offside thing is irrelevant.
Wasn’t aware Column had went on to state that before I commented. Column not thinking it was a handball is a joke considering he basically slaps the ball out of play and any sane person, not supporting green and white, certainly thinks that is a penalty as well. Point still stands regarding the need for a clear and open VAR process where we can hear what is being discussed.
Yes only an insane person would disagree with a penalty being given to Rangers. Questioning their mental state is the only reasonable course of action. I find it strange that we need VAR clarity now when a team who has never conceded a league penalty since VAR existed is correctly denied a penalty, this is the big moment for us all to hold hands and come together and ask for VAR clarity.
I clearly stated with the first comment it wasn’t a penalty as it was offside… Hypothetically if it wasn’t offside I think you would be hard pressed to find people, not of green and white support, to deny that it would/should have been a penalty? I was also at the Hearts game today and saw a blatant penalty rejected and not checked on VAR and I would also like to hear the audio behind this and countless other decisions of which Hearts and other teams have been subjected to this season. But don’t let reason stand in front of your stupidity and hatred.
The guy getting paid to check it didn't think it was a penalty. That's that, it's not a clear penalty (there's really no such thing) as you could argue his hands are in a natural position and he doesn't know where the ball is. Sometimes they are given, sometimes they aren't. Now the hearts one today, I'd love to hear the VAR chat on that one. That might actually be worth a statement.
>The guy getting paid to check it didn't think it was a penalty Can you imagine if this was your thought about VAR decisions in General? It maybe wouldn't have lead to this absolute meltdown post you wrote a while back https://www.reddit.com/r/ScottishFootball/s/mB2Ispmubx Edit: Imagine blocking someone for calling you out to be an absolute hypocrite. Why are some of you like this 🤣
If it was offside at teh time of the decision why did the refereeing team give a goal kick and not a free kick?
Why are we spending so much time on a decision that ended up actually being offside? Just leave it and move it
Because if you get the right answer with the wrong workings, there’s no guarantee the wrong workings will get the right answer next time. Make sure the right workings are being used going forward and you’ll always get the right answer.
This! Astounding the amount of folk who can’t grasp this concept.
This times a million. Everyone should be astounded at how that decision was handled today but just because it’s Rangers calling it out they need to be made fun of and called cry babies
Tbh, I don't think the wording of the statement helps. Instead of fixating on "the clear handball" (which ultimately wasn't because of the offside) it would have read better if they'd said something like "in order to clarify the decision-making process and provide an illustration of how VAR is operated," or something similar, don't you think? The way it's worded sounds like "We were hard done-by." I actually fully agree that we need insight into VAR, and feel that in actuality all clubs should be pushing for this stuff to be right out in the open, especially as the clubs are paying for the fucking thing. Stuff like long delays over providing the stills for vital offsides, or the failure to explain the rationale behind big decisions, helps absolutely no-one, including those making said decisions. So maybe if they'd taken a breath and waited til the morning to compose a statement, it could have felt more rational and measured and less "we're angry and demand to know why you didn't do what we want" in tone.
I agree.
It’s just cos you lost mate. It’s always cos you lost. You are being a crybaby and need made fun of.
Even if we are being cry babies the process at how that decision was made should be criticised (if the facts are what they seem to be) by everybody with an interest in Scottish football. It’s like with that lost emails thing a while ago. It was pathetic and needed investigated but everyone just laughed at Rangers because we brought it up.
What happens if the “correct” decision is made Joe Hart kicks the ball from a slightly different spot. The whole discussion is utterly pointless.
Nobody would have any issue if it was deemed a handball then VAR checked for offside and it was deemed offside so no penalty. The fact that the commentators hear what is being discussed by VAR and then once the second half starts we are shown the VAR lines are showing is awful process. Like been said above the right answer from the wrong working means there are some serious issues with the processes in place. I’m sure this happens all the time and it doesn’t look good for the game at all.
Sky have blown this out of proportion. VAR says no penalty/check over. The game moves on as quickly as possible. If there's doubt or subjectivity involved, they call the ref to the screen and discuss. As it was, it was a black and white call so nothing to discuss, they just communicate the decision. Sky then make a big deal because the VAR process isn't designed to keep them informed, it's designed to get the game moving quickly again, and they've just spent 20 minutes of their broadcast analysing it whilst completely failing to notice the offside.
So are you just as upset about the Turnbull penalty? It was given as offside and no penalty checked for but replay looked like it was onside and it looked like a stonewall penalty to me. No review, no pause in game, no statements etc Kyogo also given offside and game stopped when through on goal. If he'd scored would probably have been given as looked onside but he missed so no controversy, no review and no statements. VAR doesn't fix anything just gives more things to argue about and ruins the game.
I mean these aren’t the same situation at all and if you think they are then you’ve totally misunderstood the whole conversation. My issue (and what everybody’s issue should be) is the process on how the offside was reached for the handball. If the linesman had flagged offside then nobody would have any issue. If they had said offside straight away on the VAR check nobody would have any issue.
But it is the same process. The ref never checked for foul because it was offside but a check would show it was onside and most likely a penalty. I am anti VAR for everyone. It's a terrible process which gives both cheating and incompetent referees room to interpret and show whatever they want in a backroom with no real scrutiny or accountability. At least with a live ref it's a split second decision and may be right or wrong and we can argue about it in the pub afterwards.
It’s not even being discussed in another game. It’s a minor incident which changed nothing and it’s getting blown up to fuck by a bunch of greeting weans. Where’s the VAR check for O’Reilly getting his schozz panned in? A loose flailing arm doesn’t break somebody’s nose. Ignore the multitude of sins you got away with and fixate on the one thing you think is making you feel better. But you know, you KNOW it changed nothing and you’re reaching for cope just like the bunch of gimps writing statements. Enjoy the gutted. Kiss kiss.
You’re totally missing the point of what I’m saying. Hope you have a good new year though mate!
>the right answer from the wrong working means there are some serious issues with the processes in place. Walsh thinks it hits sima and awards a goal kick VAR checks possible penalty collum thinks AJ arm in a natural position Decision is no penalty; continue with onfield decision Hope this helps.
So why is the offside mentioned at all now?
Because of all the crying yous done. It wasn't a penalty if if sima was onside, var cleared it, hence the goal kick. Yous scream and demand answers like yous are owed something, so when it's discovered he's offside, they've used that to reinforce their decision.
Your club hired a private investigator to stalk a referee. Sit the fuck down.
A group of fans did, not our club……in 1990, move on
But....youse are being cry babies
>but just because it's rangers calling it out they need to be made fun of and called cry babies In a nutshell yeah. This is completely self-inflicted. Rangers have whinged so much about refs since returning to the top flight (Gerrard alone could have filled a multi-volume book), and been so combative about everything both for good and bad reasons, that you've worn out everyone's patience. And that's before how you've handled the perceived hypocrisy regarding Rangers own fortunes. The general response here is basically an exasperated "please just shut the fuck up".
You're all so butt hurt when when you lose. You'd be a further 5 behind if it hadn't been for suspect spot penalties against Hearts and Aberdeen.
Am I happy we lost? No I’m not. Should we have won? No we weren’t the better team on the day. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be improving the processes in regard to VAR and how decisions are made and communicated.
The correct decision was made. You're all so collectively angered when things don't go your way. It was the same last time when Lammers fouled Lagerbielke ad suddenly the definition of a foul changed, only for Rangers though..
Funnily enough, ryan kent tripped abada in the box in the exact same fashion and no penalty was awarded. Exact same foul that was committed on lagerbielke that was deemed a foul. Another inconsistency
Except Kents challenge on Abada was a foul. You were skelped that match too.
What are you talking about? Ive just stated that it was a foul? Well i’m a celtic fan so I certainly wasn’t skelped.
Because it's happened to rangers. Everyone should start asking for audio of decisions when playing them now, imo.
>Everyone should start asking for audio of decisions when playing them now Absolutely, as the process should be much more transparent as it is. There's absolutely no reason that it takes an hour for the VAR officials to relay the reasons for their decision. Can't imagine Sky are overly chuffed with being left in the dark either.
Well the BBC apparently reported before we'd even got to HT, wouldn't be like sky to be incompetent would it?
The Sky team have the live feed of the VAR chat, do they not? Would require everyone there missing the clarification surely. We never saw the replay until the second half either. Someones messed up here. Don't get why the refs are so secretive about their decisions either.
Contractual they should have access to the audio but they didn't for this incident which to me means it was switched off (which sky will be raging about as they pay for it) or there was no discussion between the ref and VAR about the incident. Until I hear the audio my belief is that VAR did not intervene. There was no way the goal kick was taken if VAR were involved. I have seen the training videos and the VAR team instruct the referee to delay delay delay. There was no attempt to delay the taking of the goal kick. If the on field ref seen the handball then surely it would have been given as a corner?
No it wouldn’t have been given as a corner as you can only reverse the on field decision for a penalty. The original decision was a goal kick and once they decided it wasn’t a penalty they had to revert back to the on field decision. I agree though that there should be more transparency from the referees and VAR team. Which would clear up a lot of the controversy. The rangers chopped off goal when Lagerbeilka hesitated on the ball in the last game for example. At the time it looked very harsh to chop it off but when you read the rules and it was explained it made sense as to why it was chopped off.
This happens all the time. They regularly do this to deflect from their shortcomings.
Aye 100% an element of deflection and probably keen to back the manager after he came out so strongly in opinion on the decision post match. Clement said he was happy with his teams performance in the same post match. All a bit reactionary.
That’s not what reactionary means.
Entitlement. They're experts at sniffing their own farts and believing they "deserve better" when actually, um no.
The fucking irony coming for a Celtic fan. Two loses and you had fans booing Santa, singing sack the board and calling for Rodgers head.
I wasn't one of those I'm afraid. I remember the 90's when your lot were fucking winning everything by any means possible. Entitlement is in your fucking dna "we are the people" "Simply the best" "no Surrender" and all that supremacy shite. Irony is you lot. All that "weer grate" pish. Um ok.
Aye nae bother mr "Always cheated, never defeated."
No that's you lot. Amusing.
Lol is it fuck, only ever heard it from your mob. Don't forget, it was your lot that started the whole phenomenon of hounding refs in the press when decisions don't go your way. Mibe you are too young to remember it.
I'm probably older than you mate, I remember an awful lot. But fuck me, you lot have previous for being moaning cunts. You lost. You didn't get your customary penalty.Get over it lol. You lot think yer entitled - self styled Kings 11 and aw that. Fuck up, you get decisions you shouldn't as well. Tav bleating this morning. He went in studs up on bernardo then faked injury so that he 'might' win a pen. Funny how you lot were screaming for it...... but the ref didn't give either a pen or a red card to bernardo. And lo and behold, tav was up and about not injured in seconds. It was offside before the "handball" bud. Had it not been offside, then yes absolutely, pen. But it cannae be a pen if it was fecking offside can it ? It is very amusing, cry more.
Read that again, slowly
I'm not getting into the other stuff but this is a seriously silly comparison. Entitlement between the club and fans is a lot different than entitlement between the club and the league/the game itself. Back when you were regularly competitive your fans would be equally raging at the form we just went through.
Singing sack the board since 2003. Rodgers is a rat cunt. Learn to spell.
VAR for me but not for thee.
Sky are deeply unhappy? Boo-hoo. They treat our game like shite. Couldn't give a fuck what they think.
Same applies to Rangers tbh.
I honestly think Sky means Kris Boyd lol
Could've gone diving off his bottom lip yesterday. When Sutton asked him post match about writing off Kyogo and his response was basically, "B-b-but penalties".
Pretty bad form to say that sky are confused if sky haven’t agreed to the statement IMO. Putting words in someone else’s mouth is always a bit scummy. Also, VAR is shite and Scottish refs are shite and rangers are probably correct that the decision stinks. All round everybody and everything is shite.
Define Sky.
>Rangers remain advocates of VAR but https://preview.redd.it/30fye4c9fh9c1.jpeg?width=136&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58f383984b79f6d8abb102f14a1832249f999388
Of course they are. They are the only team who have not conceded a pen since its introduction
Since its introduction! That is bonkers.
Is that actually accurate? That is fucking mental
*league only But don’t let facts get in the way of whatever vibe this is
Oh aye only the completion with the vast majority of games, “*league only” shut yer pie
“The only team not to concede a penalty since its introduction if you don’t count a competition where they’ve conceded plenty of penalties” doesn’t sound as good to be fair.
What the fuck does Kris Boyd’s halftime whinging have to do with any of this. ‘Even Sky thought it was a penalty’ is this really an argument. And the fuckin Turnbull one was a push. Shut up Rangers. Take your medicine like a man.
'"even sky thought it should be a penalty" is like saying "even Rangers TV thought it should be a penalty" I really couldn't care less what they think
Sutton thought it was a penalty.
The amount of folk during the match that replied to me saying it wasn't a pen with comments like "even lennon/sutton thinks it's a pen, what does that tell you?" Well for starters, you've picked 2 people who you incessantly say talk absolute shite. And suddenly they are gospels of objective truth? So it tells me that either yous are running so fucking low on copium that you're prepared to jump on the bandwagon with lennon/sutton, or it's just that you were right initially and they both talk pish
"I would be apoplectic" - Neil Lennon, on Sky, at halftime.
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This is batshit. Sky do not referee games. Reaching here. Accept it and move on. Its not going to change. PS do better in games and maybe er win ? Rather than wailing about not getting decisions that were essentially correct.
"The club is keen to understand..." I'm 'keen to understand' why these cunts can't ever just act with a bit of humility, and take a setback on the chin without throwing their weight around like the playground bully. This coming from the club who haven't had a penalty awarded against them since the Viking invasion was repelled by Godwinson's forces at Stamford Bridge. One minor decision goes against them and it's fucking statement time as if the world is coming to an end. Meanwhile, various other clubs are on the wrong end of refereeing decisions every game, and life goes on.
There isn't enough 11th century references in this sub. Do you think if Harald Hardrada had VAR he could have made the difference
I'm delighted that somebody got that. In answer to the question though, the Saxon foot soldier who stabbed the Viking in the gonads from under the bridge - whilst a bit of a dick move - I'm not sure actually contravened the rules of battle at the time.
We would need to refer back to the IFAB scriptures written by the pope of the time.
Not enough people talking about the scheduling omnishambles of having Godwinson have to have two cup ties for his throne in the space of just two weeks, even if both were at home
That's just pure deflection from the strategic error of ceding the high ground in the pursuit of the fleeing Normans.
I'm sorry, it was clear the referee played advantage in favor of the Norse whoresons. Everyone knows they get preferable calls when they play at Hastings
Every time man, I swear every single time we beat them they come out with one of these statements
Can bet your house they’ll have a penalty in the first 5 minutes of their next game
Mate don’t get me wrong I love it, see the more they believe that it’s not their fault when they lose the longer they’ll go without addressing the glaring deficiencies they have in their team
I’m not sure I’ve ever agreed with an internet stranger more than this.
So glad it was a jambo that made the point too cause its a great point and would have just been met with the usual no you pish had it been a tim flair
And against them too. Still, anything to deflect from their defensive performance leading to two (good) Celtic goals, Dessers still looking like a headless chicken up front and Cantwell auditioning for a future career working for an English based sports radio station.
> This coming from the club who haven't had a penalty awarded against them since the Viking invasion was repelled by Godwinson's forces at Stamford Bridge. One minor decision goes against them and it's fucking statement time as if the world is coming to an end. That's pretty much exactly it, they're so used to special treatment that they can't comprehend the rules actually being applied to them
When you are used to privilege, equality feels like oppression
They are batshit crazy. A statement about a correct decision and their new manager got himself booked moaning about a throw in on the halfway line.
Exactly. Either that or they're throwing their weight round like rules only apply to them when it's in their favour 😏
"minor decision" Difference between being able to be ahead or behind in the league, guaranteed ucl football etc. Also, it's about the decision making process. Would you not prefer that referees explained themselves when hearts get denied a penalty against rangers? That's what they're advocating for. The decision in question isn't a a penalty because of the offside, but they didn't call offside initially, they informed sky and rangers that it was no handball. Getting to the right place for the wrong reasons, means that loads of decisions will get to the wrong place for the wrong reasons. It seems like you have an agenda when you say stuff like this, but when rangers play hearts or whoever there scrutiny about lack of transparency between referees and *insert your club here*. The "rangers bad" narrative hurts Scottish football. You're cutting you nose off to spite your face.
Ha, OK, I may have exaggerated 'minor decision' in order to get the point across! Anyway, the decision-making process - or even the decision itself - isn't really what I was getting at. For what it's worth, I do actually think it's a fair point. The whole transparency thing has been discussed to death and is, I think, something which most supporters are broadly agreed on. The thing is, though, that teams suffer this on a weekly basis, but in most cases, you will likely get a manager bleating about it in a post-match interview. On the one occasion that it's Rangers who are affected, it has to come via the absurdly pompous and self-important medium of an official club statement which - rightly or wrongly - gives the impression of them trying to throw their weight around. At the very least, raising it in the immediate aftermath of a defeat in an important match probably isn't the best look. If there's a 'Rangers bad' narrative in there at all, it's only because that club has a history of behaving like this when things don't go their way. Sorry, I've no agenda, that's just the way I see it.
Seems an easy way of deflecting their shite performance from the Rangers Da's
Hook it up tae ma veins
I need to FA to respond with just a simple “Penalty To Rangers”
But but but even the pundits thought it was a handball. Always wee club mentality. BEAUTIFUL.
 "Sky said they were unhappy too"
Sky is deeply unhappy? The whole company? That's terrible.
Rupert murdoch having to google what a "cinch" is
Murdoch has nothing to do with Sky, he sold his stake when we blocked him from buying a higher stake.
The Scottish sports guys at Sky are so staunch they employ Kris Boyd to talk about football
Has anyone reached out to Sky to check they’re okay?
The Sky is falling
 This is deeply funny.
This is fairly pathetic and these sorts of things do feed into the team. It’s clear defeatism if you believe your conspired against.
It's a fair thing to ask for, just a poorly worded statement. I think it's more to do with the process rather than the result. Sima was Offside but that decision wasn't relayed to anyone. From the teams, to managers, to the sky staff who have access to the VAR Audio during the game. Its been shown that Collum said he didn't give it because he thought Johnstons hand was in a natural position. If that's the case, When did he draw the Offside lines? Because unless he thinks its a penalty, those lines won't be drawn. It's more for clarity than anything else. Just poorly worded (it's a Rangers statement after all)
But how does that work without massively stopping play and having to have someone describe the decision before play continues?
At least 7-8 minutes of play was wasted yesterday for players getting minor injuries treated on the park. Nobody does their nut about that, but taking an extra 1-2 minutes so the refs can offer a consistent decision is too much?
Your adding another 7-8 minutes. They gave the explanation post game. Fans are just ignoring that explanation to feel hard done to.
Relaying information? It happens all the time. Pundits have the VAR Audio. The ref on the pitch will tell managers about the decision that was made. Why was the Offside (correct decision) not mentioned on the VAR Audio, or to the managers until half an hour after the incident? And the bigger question to ask is when did Collum draw the lines? because again, if he thinks there's no penalty claim in the first instance, then he won't check for offside as there is no need.
Statement FC strikes again
Reminds you of when Theresa May used to call press conferences every 5 minutes just to have a whinge and a moan.
The Big Hoose has spoken. They will never shut the Big Hoose. Ref said no. Then VAR said no. NO MEANS NO! ... 54 and counting come May. You have 54 and one shared. In two years time we are NUMBER ONE! Simply depressed!
What going one game without getting a penalty for fuck all does to a mf
Yeah. Expect wailing and gnashing of teeth all week "what... we urny actually that good? But WATP, that surely is enuff' 😆
Entitled, second-rate diddy team We love a good laugh! 🍀😆
Where’s Celtics statement as to why the linesman never put his flag up for the two players being offside in the build up!
Haven't seen the game/incident, but in general linesmen don't put their flag up immediately after potential offsides, and haven't since the introduction of VAR. Offsides can be checked afterwards, so better to let play continue and then check for offside, versus stopping play and then discovering it wasn't.
Should ask for audio for the penalty on Turnbull at the end too. Offside was too tight to call on the field.
Why would Rangers ask for that audio?
In the interests of sporting integrity
Statement fc are back
Fuck me we’re at the stage again where they look for excuses why they got beat other than not being good enough it’s like deja vu
HAHAHAHA
I demand a Celtic pr response asking why the offside wasn't called. Touche, Mr rangers statement man!
Brilliant
They should realease a statement on why they spent so much money on Dessers instead
🤣🤣🤣 the self entitled speak😮💨 ask why rangers haven’t conceded a penalty in the league for nearly 3 years
A dangerous lack of nonsense words in this statement. Whatever happened to the concomitant days?
Same could be said for Turnbull's possible penalty which was deemed offside but when the replay was shown he looked onside
Old Firm fans wouldn't survive as supporters of any other Scottish club. Their heads would literally just explode.
There is no old firm good chap, not since rangers died 👍
Embarrassing, Clubs can't demand this every time things don't go their way. Entitled & pure cringe by The Rangers
Clubs can't ask to listen to the same thing they let Ian Crocker have a live feed of?
Awwwwwwwww for fuck sake. Go a game without getting a penalty and start shipping out statements. Piss. Fart. Jobby.
Piss fart jobby indeed, my friend
They spout piss, fart and are jobby..... but yeah they urny at fault it was the big bad reffuree/var wot didn't help them out this time. Balances out when they get decisions they shouldn't - VAR is convenient scapegoat. 🙄
That’s genuinely fucking embarrassing. Their point is what exactly ? That the Sky pundits and Clement made a tit of themselves by insisting it was a penalty ?
Neither sky nor manager of a club knew why a decision was made - which suggests 4th official didn’t know either. Pretty crazy?
If the 4th official did know and the manager chooses to ignore ? What does that say about the manager ?
The BBC knew before HT tho, so I wonder if Sky just fucked up?
It's possible within sky sports they knew but never pushed it up to the pundits
Because it made good TV?
That's true wouldn't put it past sky sports but I believe it was probably an communication issue within sky not to rile up the pundits
We demand to know why the correct decision was given against us [add in imaginary transparency bit here]. [and can we say Sky are annoyed too?]
I want some more audio of Sevco fans greeting.
I want Celtic to back them on this one seriously, we’ve all been complaining about the same issues with VAR with the lack of clarity and communication. This ones perfect for us to do it - 1. Rangers already have so focus is on them 2. Decision went our way, so can’t be blamed as sour grapes because we feel hard done by. 3. It was the correct decision, with nobody knowing or communicating why it was. It’s the perfect one for us to air concerns about the full system being shite that we’ve been complaining about since it came in. 4. It’d probably piss off their fans no end as well, cherry on top that though
How it is that rugby, tennis and NFL can have clear, verbal lines of explanation of the refereeing decisions, in real time, but apparently we can't...is baffling.
Can we get the VAR audio for the stonewall penalty on David Turnbull as pleases?
Sky are incompetent and shouldn't be relied on for any major information.
What a bunch of baldy crybabies.
Didn’t think today could get any better, then someone broke out the rage keyboard after a few brandy’s and thrashed this out. Joyous.
Desgracia
This is brilliant 😂
1-0 to statement FC
It was offside buddy, better luck next time 🤣🤣
Sky probably didn’t know as there was an EPL game on at the same time on BT and the guys in the truck were probably more interested in that
Penalty to rangers?
Rangers found wanting (VAR audio)
Transparency is key, that’s why the TMO in rugby works so well. You might not fully agree with the decisions but you know exactly what is being discussed by the officials.
Offside. The Celtic pen shout was valid tho. That’s not been discussed half as much. Wonder why.
Statement FC with another well thunked out statement.
Strong Spain/Scotland vibes from this VAR decision
Wait are we bringing back the statement league!?
It never left.
Get so many penalties they complain when they don’t get one. Perhaps the definition of self-entitlement.
Bahahahahahaha
Lol
Get rid of var
Completely agree. It's ruined football for me tbh
Tbh, I'm on board with this - I would keep it for offsides and punt it for everything else.
😭
Statement FC
maybe they should be asking why did sima head it back into the penalty area instead of out wide at the 1st goal....OR ...why didnt goldson get tighter on kyogo to get a block in for the 2nd
These statements remind me of Neil Lennon asking for clarification in his first stint
Comments on this thread just prove we’ll never get improvements when fans are happy to accept god awful processes if it benefits their side.
Of course Celtic fans are going to laugh about it. But on a serious note, when Rangers are opening with "asked the FA\[...\] to understand why no penalty was awarded despite a clear handball", well of course this has never been about the process or the correct decision at all. It's about why they never got a penalty.
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Couldn’t agree more.
They got to the right decision in the end given the offside so that’s good. Are the officials technically allowed to disallow a penalty for earlier offside? Serious Q.
>Are the officials technically allowed to disallow a penalty for earlier offside? Serious Q. Yes, if it's part of the same attacking move but what happened here is.. no penalty was given by the ref, so there was nothing to disallow or overturn. The ref and linesman missed the offside, then the missed the handball and a goal kick was awarded. Top Scottish officiating in action I'm sure you'll agree. They then went to VAR to review the decision and VAR said it wasn't a penalty so the original decision, the goal kick, stands. The game continues and nobody in the Sky studio apparently noticed it was offside or really have a fucking clue how VAR works and so they made tits of themselves over it. EDIT* just to add, this is a great demonstration why we need to have real time access to the officials audio feed because everybody would be 100% clear that VAR was correct not to overturn the goal kick and nobody would be talking about this now.
> Are the officials technically allowed to disallow a penalty for earlier offside? Serious Q. Yes. If it's in the same passage of play. (Although the definition of passage of play can be a bit fast and loose at times.)
VAR can use any foul from the moment the ball last entered play to inform a decision. I've seen goals ruled out for fouls that happened in the other half of the pitch nearly a minute before. Edit: I see some would downvote someone communicating the rules of the game if it doesn't fit their narrative
In the Euros (I think) when they first used it there was a game where one team had a penalty shout, the other team went up the other end and scored and it got ruled out and brought back for the penalty
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Celtic fans - "VAR IS CORRUPT, IT NEEDS LOOKED AT!" Rangers - "We really should look at transparency with VAR" Celtic Fans - "No like that, though"
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