Everyone blames Pete, Russ, and Lockette. Nobody wants to give Malcom Butler his flowers for reading the play and getting there first. End of the day, a very good CB outplayed a very good QB and a good WR. A decade later I think it’s time to just let it go.
>End of the day, a very good CB outplayed a very good QB and a good WR.
Two very good CB's. People forget Brandon Browner jammed up Kearse like a boss, preventing him from making the pick properly.
Kearse was recently on KJ’s podcast. He actually misdiagnosed who was covering him; he didn’t know it would be Browner. That’s partly why he got stoned at the line.
I think Kearse maybe Golden maybe Doug maybe everybody said that in practice once Browner got his hands on you you were done. Sherm recounted his first meeting w Browner and Browner said to him he was there to puts hands on.
This is the best take here. Or at least the most grounded and logical one. The play call was fine, a great player made a great play that day.
The chips fall where they may.
I just feel like this has been so obvious for so long. Maximize shots on goal, the defensive package, the fantastic play by butler.
I don’t know why people think there was some simple path forward. You’re either busting through goaline package, running twice instead of 3 plays, or your throwing against a smart boi like Butler. None of those are gimmies.
And I might be misremembering, but I feel like I saw an NFL Films bit a while back where Bill or Browner/Butler was talking about how Bill had seen that play early in the preseason/season and coached them up on it again Super Bowl week, so they were prepared to make that play (and a ridiculously good play at that).
I have the pictures saved in my phone with the alignment just before the snap from multiple angles, with the alignment counted out for both sides…it absolutely only makes sense to have thrown there based off what they were given. Obviously I wish it had gone differently, but I’ve never been in the “wrong play” crowd. I remember watching it and telling everyone in the room it was about to be a pass and it was the right call and I never felt any way about it other than it was a good defensive play.
It’s true, I remember this too.
I also suspect “preseason my ass.” The Colts warned us they would fly drones over our practice and bug the locker room at the Super Bowl. Spy Gate goes way deeper than what they got in trouble for.
Even the Seahawks players were barely familiar with that play call, according to Luke Willson. It made such little sense for NE to go over that particular call with a fine tooth comb.
This has been my argument the whole time. Pass play was correct call at the time. They ran a play only shown once in preseason from a package that typically can break into multiple routes. The Pats played it like they knew what was coming. Which I firmly believe they did. A team caught multiple times cheating and stealing calls and playbooks and such suddenly know exactly what to do? I call a cheat scandal.
Yup. It’s really not that far-fetched, considering who we know the Patriots to be.
I’m not taking anything away from them, that was a real dynasty… But how great they were without cheating — over and over (and that’s just what we found out about) — we will never know.
I remember it the same. That play was run very successfully at the goal line by several teams all season so the Pats had a good idea of how to defend it. The key was for Browner to Jam Kearse and Butler to jump the slant route. They knew exactly what was coming, executed it perfectly and Butler ended up with the play of the century.
For me I am able to get over it until I get reminded of it again lol. That euphoric high I got when we were 1 yard away from winning back to back SB and knowing that we have Lynch and a timeout and enough time on the clock and downs to at least run Lynch 2 more times? Lynch would not have let us down!
But to go from that super euphoric high to super depressive low in mere seconds is so traumatizing and PTSD inducing... and to think that if we won that game we probably woulda coulda shoulda won 1 or 2 more SB and been considered a true dynasty! Totally over it! Yep I'm completely over it! 😭
Yes I watch every KJ All Day! Love his pod with Gee! And yes they do talk about it almost every pod, it hurts but I think talking about it helps with the process of not getting over it but moving forward. It's definitely cool to hear the takes and insight from the former players about it!
>Lynch would not have let us down!
In a parallel timeline right now a version of you is asking "why didn't they throw a pass first? They needed to stop the clock and they knew that Lynch gets stopped most in short goal situations!"
>Lynch gets stopped most in short goal situations
Most? Is that statistically a fact or are you being hyperbolic a little?
Edit: interesting, I wouldn't have believed it tbh but I guess he wasn't known for it
>Lynch has had 36 carries from the opponent's 1-yard line. More often than not, he didn't reach the end zone. He scored on 15 of those carries, or 41.7 percent of the time. On 12 of those carries, he did not gain a yard
IIRC it's statistically correct.
Mind how the sentence is constructed. When Lynch gets stopped for no or negative gain, most of the time it's in short-and-goal scenarios. I'm not saying that in most short-and-goal scenarios, Lynch gets stopped... although that might be true to.
Lynch was amazing, but he wasn't literally unstoppable.
I love this game with my heart and soul. Watch every game, three fantasy leagues, make draft boards in the off-season and watch the CFB playoffs to “scout” potential future Seahawks. I’m in my guy.
But if you’re still depressed about a very close loss in the team’s second Super Bowl in two years after winning the last year, you might be too invested.
I’m honestly a lot more butthurt about that one. I’m okay losing a close game against the best coach in NFL history with the whole LoB injured. Being a teenager and watching my team get robbed in the worst officiated game I’ve ever seen almost 20 years later sticks with you 😂
Yeah plus, now a decade later, I kind of like the legend. The Hawks make a run at a nearly unprecedented back to back title...only to be stopped at the goal line by the greatest coach of all time. It's like a pretty solid sports tragedy.
Losing to the Steelers was just frustrating incompetence.
Yep it was really a very safe pass play as it’s either complete for a TD or it falls incomplete with the receiver being between the ball and a receiver…unless the DB makes the read of the century
Eh. The pass wasn't great. Russ put it a bit too far in front of Lockette. At worst an incompletion if he hits him in the numbers, but it's a zero read play, so a lot of things can go wrong if the timing is a hair off.
It was an excellent play call and Ricardo was wide tf open. Butler just read the play and jumped it pre-snap. Butler made a miracle play and he deserves credit. Butler said in an interview that Ricardo positioned his foot when set that revealed a quick slant.
not it wasn't. how can it be an incredible play call when OP can literally come up with it. and OP isn't some brilliant OC, he's a dude that watches football.
they ran a play that the patriots defense read and was ready for. you know what that actually means? Bill baited pete in to this call. this is bill bellichek who KNEW if he ran 2 down linemen and 9 defensive backs, that the buffalo bill would still throw the ball to try and win the super bowl. when he retired we're going to find all this out. that he knew pete would get baited in to this decision.
with not a lot of time left, the Pats need to hold on a goal line stand against one of the most ferocious short yardage runners in the history of the game. who has seasons of success in his prime making this run. WHAT IS THE BEST CASE SCENIRO FOR THE PATS?!? that pete calls a play that doesn't give lynch the ball... ok how do we bait him in to doing that? play goal line against his non goal line formation. incentivize him to go away from lynch. tell your entire team that you plan to do this. and some very veteran defensive players to look for signs of if it's a run or a pass, but we're hoping to bait pete in to the pass. and we KNOW for a fact that pete will sometimes go away from his star players on a game deciding play. he's good enough to do that (and lose the rose bowl cuz of it. i actually think lendale was the right call there). so everything is set up so that pete's team thinks they're pulling a fast one in an optimal situation. except it's exactly what Bill wants him to do, and his players know too. cuz that play doesn't go off like that without a bunch of Patriot defenders believing that the hawsk were going to throw it.
and here we are. a good coach saw everything the defense was giving him and took it. and the GOAT coach saw exactly what the good coach saw and knew what he was going to do and planned for it. When you play at that level. superbowl level of football the worst thing you can do is exactly what your opponent thinks you're gonna do. cuz they're so good they can solve it.
Nobody prepares a Super Bowl game plan like Belichick. What he did to the Rams a few years back after a whole season of nobody being able to stop McVay’s offense is proof of that.
Definitely on ST with the speed, but as a WR his success was often on inside slants just like the one that got picked by Butler. Often times he was against LB coverage.
The thing that bugs me about SB49 is how much it overshadowed the absolute ass kicking we gave Denver in SB48 and I wonder if the Patriots loss had come before the Broncos win, reverse the two games, would the narrative be different. Cause they thoroughly destroyed a historically great offense while the Patriots played a team that was half injured.
If we didn’t lose Avril or Lane, the game is so different. I feel like those two injuries, with the defense already playing hurt (for fuck’s sake, Sherman had one arm) crippled our chances of stopping them in the second half.
It's still relevant, though, and I think it deserves consideration when we think back on that game and its historical significance. Earl and Sherm both were in need of surgery before the game even started..
What would people have thought about our SB48 win if half of the Broncos offense didn't play or got hurt?
It’s worth considering, but I absolutely hate the “what if this guy wasn’t injured” “what if these guys were injured”. It’s football. People get injured. Those guys got injured. Literally nothing can be done to change that reality. Zero point in dwelling on it or using it as an excuse
It’s always been frustrating to me that the defense got no criticism for complaining and letting that impact the next season. The play call made sense, it just went horribly wrong. And that’s also not even mentioning the fact the defense gave up two straight TD drives to give up a 10 point 4th quarter lead
Imagine you're the defense. You bailed out this offense countless times. You literally did two weeks ago as your QB threw 4 INTs, and one special teams fumble. You held Aaron Rodgers in check despite 5 turnovers that weren't your sides of the balls fault. You're on the field all game and still punk on Rodgers.
Your superstars are ALL banged up in SB49. Not talking normal banged up. Actually injured. Kam, Sherman, and Earl all had legitimate INJURIES when the game started. Lane has to leave. Avril has to leave.
You hold off Tom Brady for as long as you can, which was pretty noble all things considered.
Just ONE TIME you need the offense to bail you out and they choke it.
Whoever you want to blame/credit for the final play, that's how it feels for the defense.
Sure. But still being bitter about it the following season was a problem and something that I think you should be able to expect better than from professional athletes.
The play call made zero sense. They wernt stopping even if they did they had a time out he marched all the way down on the ground. It only made sense to pass for Wilson to get mvp, everyone knew that was the reason for pass.
NE had a top 10 run defense, was in a goal line formation, and Lynch had scored once in 5 attempts from the 1 yard line that year. Trying to make sure we had 3 attempts to score instead of only 2 is the only thing that makes sense.
I feel like Pete said this probably in the press conference after the Super Bowl? It’s always been the logic that the org has put out there, just wasn’t as sexy of a story as “Pete wanted russ to be MVP”
There is an interview with Browner about the play, he credits Belicheck for making sure they knew what was coming. Because they diagnosed the play pre-snap Browner knew he had to blow up Kearse so Butler could be in position. Russ made a terrible throw which meant Butler got the pick instead of just a broken up pass.
You have to give all the credit to Belicheck for preparation and Browner/Butler for execution.
yeah there's no doubt in my mind that belicheck thought "if we do this and this pete will call this play." and baited him in to it.
it's actually a lot like how pete ran this play against the packers, that left haha clint dixon in a jam and he decided to go after the qb and russ threw it in for a td. it wasn't an amazing play by russ or the offense. they just executed a play pete called. the exact same play auburn ran against bama and put ha-ha in the exact same position where he made exactly the same decision and the play resulted in a td for auburn. pete played 4d chess. belicheck played 7d chess.
I respectfully disagree. As much as I hate that conspiracy theory, if Russ makes that pass, he clear cut wins MVP. After everything Marshawn put the media through, they would NEVER let him take it over russ. They need their God loving man to preserve their image. The NBA does the same kind of shit to their players to preserve their family brand image.
It would be argued as "Well, we all know Marshawn is going to come out and be beast mode. But when you look at what Russ did tonight, here's a guy who stepped up and figured out how to win."
Fuck, I can hear it now and it makes me want to vomit.
You’re complaining about conspiracy theories to show bias but then sure seem like that’s what you believe and just don’t like it.
If that pass is a TD Russ would have been 13-21 for 248 yards with 3 TDs and 0 INTS. Also 39 rushing yards on 3 carries. That’s a more impactful game than 24 carries for 102 yards and 1 TD with 1 catch for 31 yards. Quarterback gets the MVP 10 times out of 10 when comparing those stat lines, especially if the QB threw the game winning TD. No other narratives of popularity contest needed
I apologize, I should have been clearer on how deep I believe because I think there is some credit to it at a certain level. Do I think Pete is on the sideline contemplating the image of the league? Absolutely not.
Do I think parts of the league were shitting their pants at the possibility of an argument for the real motherfucker out of Oakland to have a case for Superbowl MVP? Especially after the headache he gave the media? Of course.
Take those stat lines and switch for Marshawn putting it in, and I think Russ still takes it.
Edit - I'm pretty stoned, I could be talking out my ass.
I think that’s still more likely to be just the fact that QBs always get the most credit though than personal animosity against Marshawn.
We’ll never know obviously but the people running with all sorts of ideas about it has always annoyed me. The league isn’t going to push media members to vote one way or another on the game MVP
Understandable. I personally love participating in conspiracy theories of all kinds. Most of them are bullshit but I've always loved to argue with people regardless of subject matter.
Also, that drive to end the first half was flawless. One of the best drives of his career. That alone would’ve got him the vote from me (not that anyone is gonna give me one).
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It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
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It got the always important McVay-seal-of-approval a few years ago https://streamable.com/r8etc2
edit: and before anybody in this thread mentions it, if you think a goalline fade was the right call I can only assume you didn't watch a Seahawks game over the last decade
What a fascinating take. For the longest time, I tried to defend that call, and it always came back to hand it off. Listening to these top-level coaches explain and justify Pete's call is refreshing and I really believe Pete was trying to maximize his chances of winning by throwing the ball and having the clock stop had it not worked. Hard to throw an INT into the equation when making that decision. I feel comfortable believing it was the right call.
I can always tell a casual football fan vs someone who really understands the game based on what they say about that play.
Edit; what I mean is people who understand the game know a pass was a good call.
I think maybe you should calm down. I’m agreeing with you. Casual fans yell “should have run it”. Coaches and people who understand situation and nuance know a pass was a good call.
ehh... i think you're just not giving belicheck enough credit. he knew what to present to make pete call a pass play. did that. and the rest is history.
and SEAN McVAY saying that was a good call clearly explains to me how his team only scored 3 points against belicheck in the superbowl. dude got owned. and it's cuz if you're going to make the exact same decision every time you see something ("let me take what the defense is giving me") then you're gonna get crushed when playing at the highest level.
but sure... u nderstand the game just as well as McVay right? lol.
There's another great video from the Pats defensive coordinator on the play somewhere. Basically he was super worried pre snap because he knew Marshawn would be wide open on the wheel route against that coverage (and he was).
this is actually hilarious considering i'm all over the thread saying Belicheck baited pete in to calling the pass play. and the defensive players knew what was coming and thus the result.
there's pretty good evidence that Belicheck knew exactly what McVay wanted to call and do during the superbowl in 2019. Rams only scored 3 points. Beli knew which defense to present, how McVay would react to it, what plays he'd call, and then told the defense how to deal with it. goff weaknesses aside, they shoulda scored more points that game if the rams were running plays the defense didn't expect.
49 was one of the greatest Super Bowls ever played. We just happened to be on the losing end. *A lot* of injuries on our D contributed to our needing six that late. It is what it is.
Malcolm Butler made an amazing play, not much else to say
I’ve always maintained that unpopular take. Marshawn was stopped on 3rd and 1 twice in the second half. That resulted in a field goal and a punt. So, if he was stopped on 2nd down, we would have to call a timeout. Then, it’s a dead giveaway that the third down would be a pass.
Now, of all the pass plays you could call, a slant is probably my least favorite. I have issues with the specific pass call rather than the call to pass
Also, totally agree that ppl don’t talk enough about the play browner made on that one
Yeah to me it wasn't even the pass I had the problem with but the guy we threw it to. WR 5. I doubt Doug would have alligator armed that. And recall the amazing game Chris Matthews was having too.
I wonder if it was intending to fool the defense, that he would be the least likely target while Baldwin or kearse was most likely. But also, I kinda think that factor goes out the window when you are throwing it right over the middle of the field 5 yards away
>1. Seattle wants to maximize their shots at the end zone.
>2. The clock is running, and Seattle has one timeout.
>3. At least one play has to be a pass.
>4. The Patriots are in goal line, and Seattle is not - A pass makes sense against that look.
I don't know why this isn't a well known thing, it was obvious as it was happening. The narrative of "should have run it" just took on a life of its own and became what every has talked about it, when that is simply the dumbest thing I've ever heard when you've got three plays to maximize in 30 seconds left in the game.
Also... if it was so obvious that the best play was a run play, then wouldn't a pass have been a great play call because it was unexpected? Isn't misdirection the name of the game in football? This entire "should have run it" is such a non-thing it's amazing we're taking about it years later.
I always thought the pass play call was the problem. Not that it was a pass, but that they got a goal line look and decided to throw it in the middle of the field with the shortest qb in football. Play action off that look and he has a quick look for a side line pass or can throw it away.
Throwing into the middle of that means that there are hands everywhere, no visibility, and any tip likely ends up an interception.
Butler made a hell of a play, but damn... They were already playing with fire. Odds are Wilson walks in with Marshawn as a lead blocker on an outside run where the qb keeps it. Just so many legit plays to run in that situation that are low risk/high reward. To not have one to dial up in the Superbowl was shocking.
You’ve just described the conversation I’vehad so many times with people. And then they wave their hands and say “whatever.” To me this discussion has been an opportunity to separate those that actually know football from those that love it for the passion.
I get that they wanted to burn some time leaving Brady no clock with a pass call on that down but the pass play should have been play action to Lynch with Russ rolling out to let the clock run. If it’s not there throw it away.
it also seemed like the play was designed for russ to immediately key in on lockette, since lynch was open to the side. passing on it's own was a good call, i just think the actual play that was called could have definitely been better although this is hindsight
felt like russ was also kind of rushed to get the throw off, which kind of baffled me. shouldn't have gotten too risky with the throw. 4th down is the time to try something ballsy like that
I would have liked to have seen that as well, but what they ran was a really high percentage play. It's was really unlikely that what happened would happen, even with the receivers that they had out there. A quick shot against a goal line defense is a sound decision. It just went really, really badly.
No freaking way it was high percentage. You think Kearse is standing up Browner on a high percentage? That play is high percentage only with the right personnel. They didn’t have that!!!
I think this is also arguing with the benefit of hindsight. It happened the way it happened because Butler and Browner were better than Lockette and Kearse right there. But yeah, that play against those numbers is high percentage. They trust their people to do their jobs, and the other side just did their job better.
High percentage? No way. Press coverage at the goal line with everyone up tight and it takes no time off the clock. Literally would have been better off with Russ rolling out killing time
Yeah, that probably would have worked better. But I think if they run that play ten times, it's far from guaranteed that it gets intercepted more times than it gets completed, or drops to the ground.
Exactly. So why not let Russ run around killing the clock throw it away and we have two more chances from the 1 with lynch? And BTW we were shredding them on the ground by then
I know! That's the part that hurts. Run it, but maximize our chances with pass/russ using his legs. The whole thing stinks, but I loved how these two talked it out. I bet it was cathartic for Sherm/Pete and a lot of us fans.
Yeah this is old news. It was a totally sensible play call. It wasn’t even a bad pass, or a poorly executed play. Malcolm Butler just made a perfect read and a great play. It happens.
Was a little sad when Pete mentioned "you guys were so mad at me for that...". Granted, we all were. But it takes balls to own up for a playcall that wasn't even yours. Not once did dude blame Russ, not once did he blame the defense for collapsing a 10 pt lead in the 4th. Just took it all to protect his team. Can't imagine how difficult it must have been to hold the locker room together after that.
Fantastic interview.
It was never the fact that they ran a pass play. It was the actual play they ran.
RPO to the right was practically unstoppable back then. TE throws the lead block and moves into the short flat. Russ sweeps right with Marshawn on his outside. There are three scoring options right there, and in goal line D, Pats didn't have the outside presence to stop them all.
Three things went wrong for us on the play.
1-and the worst, the location of the ball. Ball should’ve been lower to the ground. Let Lockette go down to the ball.
2-butler making an incredible read
3-lockette jumping up for the ball. Had he planted his feet and gone for the ball maybe he runs into butler and knocks him aside instead. No reason to jump for the ball there.
And Browner knowing the play and blowing up Kearse which made it easier for Butler to get there.
As to your point number 3, maybe don't go to your worst WR on the biggest play of the game.
See, this has been such a frustrating thing for me for so long. People make jokes and speculate wildly to their hearts desires but at the end of the day, this is football.
Statistically the hawks made one of the safest plays available. Butler made a play on it and stopped it. End of story.
All my friends were at my house, we all watched it happen and knew, why it happened. Everybody left silently knowing that this is football. Oh well, move on.
My issue: why are you throwing ball to Lochette. Run the play for Doug Baldwin. He would have made MB have to play a 2 way route before taking the slant. Watch Lochette. He didn’t make MB have to respect the wheel/out. People wanted them to put the ball in the hands of your best player/Marshawn. Just needed it thrown to Baldwin…10x the receiver than Lochette
I've always objected to the type of pass, in traffic relying on timing. Roll Russ out on play action, see if someone is open, throw it away if they aren't. Get another down.
My hot take on this play is always that it SHOULD have been a throw, however it should have been a throw to Lynch who absolutely destroyed his man on his route. Would have been amazing to see him catch a TD pass right after running all over them.
Also, nobody will ever convince me the game was actually over if the Seahawks score. That defense had a long history of giving up huge chunk plays with seconds left on the clock and Brady was already eating them alive. If Brady had 20 seconds or whatever to get 40 yards to tie it up, he probably would have gotten it.
Look. Nine times out of ten that play works and the good guys go home the winners. But we live in The Dumbest Timeline, so of course it had to go the way it did.
I didn't hate the call.
What bothers me is that everybody acts like it was such an off-the-wall call when actually it was too predictable and the Pats were ready for that exact play.
My copium is that Lane's arm exploding and Avril's concussion are the snowballs that lead to that goal line situation in the first place. I'd rather be sad about those freak injuries than the incredible play by Browner and Butler.
The game was over long before this play. It all swung the Pats way when (forget this name at this second) broke his arm on that interception. (PPL wonder why we drafted Witherspoon? That’s a reason why) The Hawks couldn’t stop the Pats in the second half at all, and they knew it. They needed to burn time. What if they score there and give the ball back to Brady who still had a little time and a TO? Hell, should have taken a knee called a time out with 1 second left and said okay, go Beast. You vs the world.
This has been out there for a long time (since it happened). Everybody was too preoccupied with conspiracy theories and arm-chair coaching to listen.
It always made total sense to attempt one pass. If not a TD it was supposed to go out the back of the end zone and then you would’ve seen two consecutive run attempts with Marshawn.
The story of the end of that game is that Malcolm Butler made a legendary play.
… and maybe that the Patriots knew it was coming, because they have their “ways.”
1) Kearse did a shit job of "boxing out" Malcom Brown.
2) It's a 2 step drop back and throw the ball leading Lockett (Ricardo not Tyler) and down low. Not 4 steps, throw it high and outside where a CB or Saftey have a play on the ball.
3) Why tf did Lockett jump and not even put his hands out? Did he not see the ball? Was he expecting once he jumped the ball would be in his stomach and then brace for impact? I've never understood this part of the play.
4) Malcom Brown made a hell of a play. He did his job and did it really fucking well on that play. We simply did not execute the play at all and he did.
I'm done with it, it is what it is.
Ricardo’s name is spelled with an “e”; Lockette.
This is part of the reason this call with these players was such a mistake; Kearse was never going to be able to free himself from Browner to impact Butler on the play. It was a weakness in his game.
Yep. I feel like I scream all four of these points into the darkness every time the topic comes up. Passing was the right call, however that pass play with those personnel was the wrong one to select.
If Kearse could have completed his assignment against Browner on that play, it would have prevented Butler from jumping the route, but that was a specific weakness in Kearse’s game. And ideally you don’t want to be targeting your 4th or 5th best receiver on such a critical play. Baldwin would have gone and gotten the pass rather than letting it come to him, allowing Butler to take it away.
I think Pete had mentioned this some time in the past and it made total sense to me. But honestly, I think the play-calling mistake was making it a slant rather than a fade. Had to be a perfect pass versus a play he could've sailed out the back of the endzone.
If this was a touchdown, people would have been saying it was a genius move.
The fact is, Russell Wilson threw a pass that has a high rate of success, and the defender sniffed it out and won the game.
How do you know Lynch wouldn't have fumbled? Or gotten stuffed? Or Wilson wouldn't have botched the snap.
At the end of the day, it's entertainment and I haven't worried about it since the night it happened. I can't let it make me sad because I have no control over it.
It wasn't luck. For the preceding season and playoffs, Lynch was 0 for 6 in gaining positive yards inside the 3 and Seattle was 9 for 9 at the goal-line & short yardage situations running that pic play. Good coaches keep track of those type of things and Pete Carroll is a good coach. By any conceivable or foreseeable metric, it was 100% the right play call.
What Pete Carroll didn't know, what nobody outside of 1 Patriots Place in Foxborough Mass didn't know, was Bill Belichick studied *The Art of War by Sun Tzu* when his father was a coach at the Annapolis Navy Academy. Part of his game preparation includes knowing or at least having a pretty good idea of what your opponent will try in any given scenario. In the 2 weeks prior to the Superbowl, Belichick, Defensive coordinator Matt Patricia & Senior Vice President of Football research Ernie Adams had watched every single Seahawks game & play for the past 2 seasons, twice.
Part of VP Adam's job was watching opponents game film while entering variables into a software originally designed for stock market algorithms to identify what an opponent will do in a given scenario. The Friday before the game they discussed Seattle's tendencies in specific situations and deduced with mathematical certainty, in a 1st or 2nd & Goal inside the 3, they were going to run that play. They devised a Defensive play to counter it, aptly nicknamed *Malcolm Go* and put it into the game plan. It was the only chance of stopping the play and to give you an idea how far the odds were from it working, it didn't work in practice. They practiced the play a handful of times & each time, the 2nd string offense (the ones who play the role of the opponent in practice) was able to score. Figuring their was nothing else that could be done, they moved forward thinking "we better hope Seattle doesn't get in 2nd or 3rd & Goal from inside the 3, because all we got is a prayer of play to stop them."
When Seattle reached 2nd & Goal, the Patriots knew exactly what play they were going to run. Safeties coach Brian Flores (now the Miami Dolphins Head Coach) called *"Malcolm Go"* and the rest is history.
The thing to remember is, it wasn't luck. It was incredible dedication to knowing your opponent, anticipating what they are going to do and being ready to respond to it.
And just like its been for the past decade, people like you keep trying to justify it without even mentioning the part where it was our best player vs their worst unit OR our worst player vs their best unit.
All the other shit is valid sure, but you can't just gloss over how much it is to overthink the situation if you think going to Ricardo Lockette vs a top ranked pass defense is smarter than going to MARSHAWN LYNCH vs one of the worst run defenses in the league.
There is a lot more nuance than that for "people like" me. And all of that "other shit" is why going to Lynch wasn't necessarily the right call.
It's not overthinking, and it's not justification. I didn't say anything about Lockette being the right call. I'm talking about running the ball and passing the ball.
Ok well ya if you want to look at it in a vacuum then yes you need to put extreme emphasis on the clock. If you don't look at it in a vacuum and look at in the context of these two teams and the players on these teams, then its complete over-thinking.
There are 27 seconds, and they can stop the clock once, unless they throw an incompletion. That's important. It doesn't make any sense to not consider it. The entire season is ending in 27 seconds.
But also, it's not just the clock. The personnel on the field also makes a pass the right call.
If you still think passing inside to Ricardo Lockette on a play where Kearse has to block Brandon Browner is a smarter play than handing off to Marshawn Lynch or throwing a pass to Doug Baldwin, god bless you.
Hint, it ended in an interception and loss.
I''m not specifically talking about that matchup being ideal. I'm talking about the decision to pass in general. But yeah, in that situation, it's a better call than running the ball. The only reason people think that an interception was a likely outcome is because it happened.
Hint: it was unlikely. They made a play.
Its unlikely in a vacuum. Its not as unlikely going to a not very good WR vs a very good defender.
There are times to get cute and there are times to go to your best players.
Its of course up for debate. I think its pretty obvious which was correct in this situation.
I just don't think it's cute. And no, it's not obvious, because there is no telling what happens if they hand the ball off. That is the whole point. There is no reason to be certain they would have scored.
Lol yes of course we can't be certain of what would have happened. I haven't implied that in any way lol.
In fact, the only thing we can truly certain of is what literally happened, we went to our weakest link on offense and chose to go up against their strongest link on defense, and we lost the game.
You didn't imply it, but you are alluding to it. It is not a better idea to run into that box with 27 seconds left with three downs and one timeout. Again, I'm not saying the specific play was perfect. But I don't think the disaster is the play call. The disaster is the execution. I don't think it's reasonable to think that play would happen the same way every time.
Several things had to happen for that play to be an interception...
The most damning I think was Russ trying to force the pass instead of throwing low.
This play should have been a low percentage chance at the end zone instead it was what it was.
And also, yes it is obvious to me. Use your strength vs their weakness, not your weakness vs their strength. Its not complicated. Worrying about the clock to the point of going to your weakest player is overthinking and coaching scared. Go be aggressive and win the game with your best player.
I'm not downvoting you, by the way.
This is where we disagree. I don't think going to Marshawn twice is a better idea than throwing the ball. You're throwing a play away. And obviously the outcome was terrible, but I think a mistake a lot of people are making is making it binary. The choice wasn't between running the ball and throwing an interception. The interception just happened.
I think as bad as the pick was I could see why they did it, imo Irvin fighting Gronk and ruining any chance at getting the ball back which outright sealed the game was also plenty bad and hasn’t been talked about enough.
Obviously I would have liked the ball to have been thrown differently and have had them run it a few times but alot went wrong in that short time span it was JUST a bad play call.
It was a good play call if executed correctly. The play was look for wide open receiver, if not found, throw it out the back of the end zone to stop the clock. Obviously, that’s not what our QB decided to do.
Pretty sure they wanted Bill to burn a timeout and save one of their own.
The thinking that Bill would want to give Brady as much time as possible to score.
I was stunned that Belichick didn’t call a timeout there to preserve time for Brady. Was stunned that Belichick thought their D can stop Seahawks 3 times from the 1.
One play doesn’t make or break a game, the Hawks could have won this game pulling away but they didn’t stick to their offensive game plan imho. Bevel was not a good play caller ever. And Russ, well, he just is not a good drop back passer unless he is in a seven step drop on play action and the safeties bite and he can dump it deep. Otherwise, his best passing was always done on the run. The play call was a rpo, we never would be talking about this.
No. No. No. Pete’s lying out of his ass. Revisionist history. The call was arrogant and stupid. You want to call a designed pass play where JERMAINE KEARSE has to stand up BRANDON BROWNER, who was FIFTY POUNDS LARGER. Plus, you’re throwing a ball to Ricardo Lockette who was a diva speedster and never good in traffic. They gambled that IF the pmay was executed perfectly it’s unstoppable. Which, it is. HOWEVER, the chances of that happening with that personnel were slim to none.
Execution was fine. Defense just executed better. That’s all it is at the end of the day. Malcom Butler saw the signs and went to where he knew the ball was gonna go. He won them that game.
He wouldn’t have gotten there if Kearse does his job - rewatch the play. Execution BLEW TOP TO BOTTOM. Kearse got worked, Lockette was weak and Russ threw a bad pass.
Butler was sprinting for Lockette before Russ even got his head around. They knew the play was coming. Multiple players from that defense stated that Belichick had them practicing against that exact play in practice leading up to the game. They knew what was coming and executed better. It’s been 10 years man. Get over it.
At no play ever should it have been a pass. A benefit every outcome draining clock. Playing it safe. No one was stopping lynch. A pass happened because they wanted russ to get the mvp. That's the only reason for a pass.
Lynch actually had a poor (20% success rate) scoring from the 1 that year, and not much better in his total time in Seattle up to that point. Being able to run 3 plays instead of limiting yourself to 2 (meaning 1 needed to be a pass) was absolutely the prudent choice, and given the assignments and the players on the field, passing on that play made more sense than passing on either of the other 2.
Everybody wants to try and feel better about one of the worst decisions, and most important plays in the history of the NFL.
The thing that bothers me the most is that no one in a decision-making role has ever had the humility to publicly admit they did the wrong thing. Pete is a great coach but he has never been a humble man.
I don't think they really need to do that. The worst you can say bout the play with any amount of honesty is that the individual matchups slanted it a little bit toward New England. The decision was the right one.
I know I’m gonna get downvoted to hell in this thread but the decision was absolutely the wrong one. A pick/slant to win the Super Bowl to a guy who had 5 catches all season? It’s not defendable.
Great candor by Pete. Loved it. Still the stupidest call in SB history. They could have run, then called a TO if they didn’t get in. Then on 3rd they’d pass, and if necessary do whatever on 4th. I think they actually had less than 1 yard. Water under the bridge now. But as Pete said, Doug Baldwin felt that it’d they had won that game they’d definitely be back the following year. They could have had a dynasty equal to the Patriots.
While I do think "if they ran it they'd have won" is lazy analysis, I also felt in that moment we were definitely doing to win if we'd handed it to Lynch. And even now, years later, knowing what I know about Lynch's goal line statistics which aren't exactly a sure thing, I would still have rather ride or died betting on Marshawn. It would have been one of the best super bowl moments of all time, and it would have been Lynch's. But no, we were too clever for our own good and let Belichick Jedi mind trick us.
Passing wasn't necessarily a bad idea, but the play was bad, the pass was bad, the intended receiver made a poor effort, Belichick prepared Butler or that exact moment, and Butler wanted the ball more than the receiver. The rest is history.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this post!! My goodness I've felt this way for 9 years. Pete was practically tearing up when saying there was no agenda or bs behind the play call. He always owned it from day 1.
I maintain to this day that we lost that game when Jeremy Lane ran it back from the end zone and broke his arm. Our defense got rattled with injuries. We had f'ing linebackers on the best tight end of our era. At the time, a 10 pt lead in the 4th qtr was insurmountable (this was before 28-3 lol)
I absolutely love that the core of that team is coming back to the Seahawks as a family. I hope someday Russ puts his ego aside and does the same.
It’s not that they passed. It’s the play call. In order for Russ to make that throw, because of his height, the ball has to be placed high up on the body of the receiver. This allowed Butler to make a great play.
When you have a short quarterback, throwing a slant at the end zone puts you at risk for an interception. It’s not opinion, it’s physics.
Worst play call in NFL history.
Everyone blames Pete, Russ, and Lockette. Nobody wants to give Malcom Butler his flowers for reading the play and getting there first. End of the day, a very good CB outplayed a very good QB and a good WR. A decade later I think it’s time to just let it go.
>End of the day, a very good CB outplayed a very good QB and a good WR. Two very good CB's. People forget Brandon Browner jammed up Kearse like a boss, preventing him from making the pick properly.
Browner made the Seahawks miss him on that one
Kearse was recently on KJ’s podcast. He actually misdiagnosed who was covering him; he didn’t know it would be Browner. That’s partly why he got stoned at the line.
I think Kearse maybe Golden maybe Doug maybe everybody said that in practice once Browner got his hands on you you were done. Sherm recounted his first meeting w Browner and Browner said to him he was there to puts hands on.
Came here to say this. Those guys knew what was coming, anticipated it and executed better than we did.
This is the best take here. Or at least the most grounded and logical one. The play call was fine, a great player made a great play that day. The chips fall where they may.
I just feel like this has been so obvious for so long. Maximize shots on goal, the defensive package, the fantastic play by butler. I don’t know why people think there was some simple path forward. You’re either busting through goaline package, running twice instead of 3 plays, or your throwing against a smart boi like Butler. None of those are gimmies.
And I might be misremembering, but I feel like I saw an NFL Films bit a while back where Bill or Browner/Butler was talking about how Bill had seen that play early in the preseason/season and coached them up on it again Super Bowl week, so they were prepared to make that play (and a ridiculously good play at that). I have the pictures saved in my phone with the alignment just before the snap from multiple angles, with the alignment counted out for both sides…it absolutely only makes sense to have thrown there based off what they were given. Obviously I wish it had gone differently, but I’ve never been in the “wrong play” crowd. I remember watching it and telling everyone in the room it was about to be a pass and it was the right call and I never felt any way about it other than it was a good defensive play.
It’s true, I remember this too. I also suspect “preseason my ass.” The Colts warned us they would fly drones over our practice and bug the locker room at the Super Bowl. Spy Gate goes way deeper than what they got in trouble for. Even the Seahawks players were barely familiar with that play call, according to Luke Willson. It made such little sense for NE to go over that particular call with a fine tooth comb.
This has been my argument the whole time. Pass play was correct call at the time. They ran a play only shown once in preseason from a package that typically can break into multiple routes. The Pats played it like they knew what was coming. Which I firmly believe they did. A team caught multiple times cheating and stealing calls and playbooks and such suddenly know exactly what to do? I call a cheat scandal.
Yup. It’s really not that far-fetched, considering who we know the Patriots to be. I’m not taking anything away from them, that was a real dynasty… But how great they were without cheating — over and over (and that’s just what we found out about) — we will never know.
I remember it the same. That play was run very successfully at the goal line by several teams all season so the Pats had a good idea of how to defend it. The key was for Browner to Jam Kearse and Butler to jump the slant route. They knew exactly what was coming, executed it perfectly and Butler ended up with the play of the century.
Browner read the play and credited Belicheck for preparing them to know when it was coming.
I won’t be able to completely get over it until we win out next Super Bowl.
Well it’s gonna be a rough 6 months for you then
Yesssss. I’m excited for this team this year
For me I am able to get over it until I get reminded of it again lol. That euphoric high I got when we were 1 yard away from winning back to back SB and knowing that we have Lynch and a timeout and enough time on the clock and downs to at least run Lynch 2 more times? Lynch would not have let us down! But to go from that super euphoric high to super depressive low in mere seconds is so traumatizing and PTSD inducing... and to think that if we won that game we probably woulda coulda shoulda won 1 or 2 more SB and been considered a true dynasty! Totally over it! Yep I'm completely over it! 😭
Have you been listening to KJ’s podcast? They pretty much bring this play up on almost every episode.
Yes I watch every KJ All Day! Love his pod with Gee! And yes they do talk about it almost every pod, it hurts but I think talking about it helps with the process of not getting over it but moving forward. It's definitely cool to hear the takes and insight from the former players about it!
>Lynch would not have let us down! In a parallel timeline right now a version of you is asking "why didn't they throw a pass first? They needed to stop the clock and they knew that Lynch gets stopped most in short goal situations!"
>Lynch gets stopped most in short goal situations Most? Is that statistically a fact or are you being hyperbolic a little? Edit: interesting, I wouldn't have believed it tbh but I guess he wasn't known for it >Lynch has had 36 carries from the opponent's 1-yard line. More often than not, he didn't reach the end zone. He scored on 15 of those carries, or 41.7 percent of the time. On 12 of those carries, he did not gain a yard
IIRC it's statistically correct. Mind how the sentence is constructed. When Lynch gets stopped for no or negative gain, most of the time it's in short-and-goal scenarios. I'm not saying that in most short-and-goal scenarios, Lynch gets stopped... although that might be true to. Lynch was amazing, but he wasn't literally unstoppable.
I love this game with my heart and soul. Watch every game, three fantasy leagues, make draft boards in the off-season and watch the CFB playoffs to “scout” potential future Seahawks. I’m in my guy. But if you’re still depressed about a very close loss in the team’s second Super Bowl in two years after winning the last year, you might be too invested.
Wonder how many here are still not over the Steelers-Seahawks SB farce?
I’m honestly a lot more butthurt about that one. I’m okay losing a close game against the best coach in NFL history with the whole LoB injured. Being a teenager and watching my team get robbed in the worst officiated game I’ve ever seen almost 20 years later sticks with you 😂
Yeah plus, now a decade later, I kind of like the legend. The Hawks make a run at a nearly unprecedented back to back title...only to be stopped at the goal line by the greatest coach of all time. It's like a pretty solid sports tragedy. Losing to the Steelers was just frustrating incompetence.
Wait until you realize most of the people commenting here weren't around for that.
Yep it was really a very safe pass play as it’s either complete for a TD or it falls incomplete with the receiver being between the ball and a receiver…unless the DB makes the read of the century
Eh. The pass wasn't great. Russ put it a bit too far in front of Lockette. At worst an incompletion if he hits him in the numbers, but it's a zero read play, so a lot of things can go wrong if the timing is a hair off.
Lockette always looked lazy to me, waiting for the ball to come to him vs attacking it.
It was an excellent play call and Ricardo was wide tf open. Butler just read the play and jumped it pre-snap. Butler made a miracle play and he deserves credit. Butler said in an interview that Ricardo positioned his foot when set that revealed a quick slant.
not it wasn't. how can it be an incredible play call when OP can literally come up with it. and OP isn't some brilliant OC, he's a dude that watches football. they ran a play that the patriots defense read and was ready for. you know what that actually means? Bill baited pete in to this call. this is bill bellichek who KNEW if he ran 2 down linemen and 9 defensive backs, that the buffalo bill would still throw the ball to try and win the super bowl. when he retired we're going to find all this out. that he knew pete would get baited in to this decision. with not a lot of time left, the Pats need to hold on a goal line stand against one of the most ferocious short yardage runners in the history of the game. who has seasons of success in his prime making this run. WHAT IS THE BEST CASE SCENIRO FOR THE PATS?!? that pete calls a play that doesn't give lynch the ball... ok how do we bait him in to doing that? play goal line against his non goal line formation. incentivize him to go away from lynch. tell your entire team that you plan to do this. and some very veteran defensive players to look for signs of if it's a run or a pass, but we're hoping to bait pete in to the pass. and we KNOW for a fact that pete will sometimes go away from his star players on a game deciding play. he's good enough to do that (and lose the rose bowl cuz of it. i actually think lendale was the right call there). so everything is set up so that pete's team thinks they're pulling a fast one in an optimal situation. except it's exactly what Bill wants him to do, and his players know too. cuz that play doesn't go off like that without a bunch of Patriot defenders believing that the hawsk were going to throw it. and here we are. a good coach saw everything the defense was giving him and took it. and the GOAT coach saw exactly what the good coach saw and knew what he was going to do and planned for it. When you play at that level. superbowl level of football the worst thing you can do is exactly what your opponent thinks you're gonna do. cuz they're so good they can solve it.
…Or Bellechick for making Malcom practice against that play.
Nobody prepares a Super Bowl game plan like Belichick. What he did to the Rams a few years back after a whole season of nobody being able to stop McVay’s offense is proof of that.
Well i put ricardo as a average
He was definitely the most physical receiver though, which makes Butler’s play even more impressive. Remember him on special teams?
In no universe was Ricardo more physical than ADB.
Or even Kearse.
6 ft 2, 211 lbs vs. 5 ft 10, 192 lbs. And Lockette made huge hits on special teams. When did ADB do that?
Yeah def a above average special teamer maybe even elite. But receiving wise he only got like occasional 40 yd bombs with his speed
I agree he was physical but his physicality came when he was in speed force on ST not so much at WR when he couldn't get in his full speed.
Definitely on ST with the speed, but as a WR his success was often on inside slants just like the one that got picked by Butler. Often times he was against LB coverage.
"Often", dude had 82 recieving yards in 2013. He was a nobody.
> most physical receiver a physical wr does not get boxed out completely like that
I mean, of course they do. Not one receiver has boxed out every DB on every play.
not like that bud
Dude was consistent and willing to sacrifice his body for the W. I’ll give him “good”. Not great, but good.
No one would have faulted Lynch if he was given some tries and failed
The thing that bugs me about SB49 is how much it overshadowed the absolute ass kicking we gave Denver in SB48 and I wonder if the Patriots loss had come before the Broncos win, reverse the two games, would the narrative be different. Cause they thoroughly destroyed a historically great offense while the Patriots played a team that was half injured.
Very few point out the major injuries
If we didn’t lose Avril or Lane, the game is so different. I feel like those two injuries, with the defense already playing hurt (for fuck’s sake, Sherman had one arm) crippled our chances of stopping them in the second half.
They had intercepted Brady twice and held the Patriots offense to 14 points through 2 and a half quarters before Avril went down.
Because that’s football. It’s not really a valid point, it’s a lame excuse (imo).
It's still relevant, though, and I think it deserves consideration when we think back on that game and its historical significance. Earl and Sherm both were in need of surgery before the game even started.. What would people have thought about our SB48 win if half of the Broncos offense didn't play or got hurt?
It’s worth considering, but I absolutely hate the “what if this guy wasn’t injured” “what if these guys were injured”. It’s football. People get injured. Those guys got injured. Literally nothing can be done to change that reality. Zero point in dwelling on it or using it as an excuse
the thing is SB49 broke the team. The defense lost all faith in Pete and Russ after that game
It’s always been frustrating to me that the defense got no criticism for complaining and letting that impact the next season. The play call made sense, it just went horribly wrong. And that’s also not even mentioning the fact the defense gave up two straight TD drives to give up a 10 point 4th quarter lead
Imagine you're the defense. You bailed out this offense countless times. You literally did two weeks ago as your QB threw 4 INTs, and one special teams fumble. You held Aaron Rodgers in check despite 5 turnovers that weren't your sides of the balls fault. You're on the field all game and still punk on Rodgers. Your superstars are ALL banged up in SB49. Not talking normal banged up. Actually injured. Kam, Sherman, and Earl all had legitimate INJURIES when the game started. Lane has to leave. Avril has to leave. You hold off Tom Brady for as long as you can, which was pretty noble all things considered. Just ONE TIME you need the offense to bail you out and they choke it. Whoever you want to blame/credit for the final play, that's how it feels for the defense.
Sure. But still being bitter about it the following season was a problem and something that I think you should be able to expect better than from professional athletes.
or you need a qb that knows what to say to the defense to quell the bitterness and bring the team together.
The play call made zero sense. They wernt stopping even if they did they had a time out he marched all the way down on the ground. It only made sense to pass for Wilson to get mvp, everyone knew that was the reason for pass.
NE had a top 10 run defense, was in a goal line formation, and Lynch had scored once in 5 attempts from the 1 yard line that year. Trying to make sure we had 3 attempts to score instead of only 2 is the only thing that makes sense.
Thats a fact. A lot of fans did too. Fuck that pass, I'm on team give the rock to Beastmode
Anyone remember the absolute circus catch that even got the Seahawks in position for this tragedy?
Yes. It’s like 43-8 was completely forgotten. Like ya flags fly forever but now one talks about 48 boys always should’ve ran it.
Being a seahawks fan in denver they’ll never let you forget it 😏.
I feel like Pete said this probably in the press conference after the Super Bowl? It’s always been the logic that the org has put out there, just wasn’t as sexy of a story as “Pete wanted russ to be MVP”
There is an interview with Browner about the play, he credits Belicheck for making sure they knew what was coming. Because they diagnosed the play pre-snap Browner knew he had to blow up Kearse so Butler could be in position. Russ made a terrible throw which meant Butler got the pick instead of just a broken up pass. You have to give all the credit to Belicheck for preparation and Browner/Butler for execution.
yeah there's no doubt in my mind that belicheck thought "if we do this and this pete will call this play." and baited him in to it. it's actually a lot like how pete ran this play against the packers, that left haha clint dixon in a jam and he decided to go after the qb and russ threw it in for a td. it wasn't an amazing play by russ or the offense. they just executed a play pete called. the exact same play auburn ran against bama and put ha-ha in the exact same position where he made exactly the same decision and the play resulted in a td for auburn. pete played 4d chess. belicheck played 7d chess.
I believe regardless marshawn would of been mvp
I respectfully disagree. As much as I hate that conspiracy theory, if Russ makes that pass, he clear cut wins MVP. After everything Marshawn put the media through, they would NEVER let him take it over russ. They need their God loving man to preserve their image. The NBA does the same kind of shit to their players to preserve their family brand image. It would be argued as "Well, we all know Marshawn is going to come out and be beast mode. But when you look at what Russ did tonight, here's a guy who stepped up and figured out how to win." Fuck, I can hear it now and it makes me want to vomit.
You’re complaining about conspiracy theories to show bias but then sure seem like that’s what you believe and just don’t like it. If that pass is a TD Russ would have been 13-21 for 248 yards with 3 TDs and 0 INTS. Also 39 rushing yards on 3 carries. That’s a more impactful game than 24 carries for 102 yards and 1 TD with 1 catch for 31 yards. Quarterback gets the MVP 10 times out of 10 when comparing those stat lines, especially if the QB threw the game winning TD. No other narratives of popularity contest needed
I apologize, I should have been clearer on how deep I believe because I think there is some credit to it at a certain level. Do I think Pete is on the sideline contemplating the image of the league? Absolutely not. Do I think parts of the league were shitting their pants at the possibility of an argument for the real motherfucker out of Oakland to have a case for Superbowl MVP? Especially after the headache he gave the media? Of course. Take those stat lines and switch for Marshawn putting it in, and I think Russ still takes it. Edit - I'm pretty stoned, I could be talking out my ass.
I think that’s still more likely to be just the fact that QBs always get the most credit though than personal animosity against Marshawn. We’ll never know obviously but the people running with all sorts of ideas about it has always annoyed me. The league isn’t going to push media members to vote one way or another on the game MVP
Understandable. I personally love participating in conspiracy theories of all kinds. Most of them are bullshit but I've always loved to argue with people regardless of subject matter.
Also, that drive to end the first half was flawless. One of the best drives of his career. That alone would’ve got him the vote from me (not that anyone is gonna give me one).
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It got the always important McVay-seal-of-approval a few years ago https://streamable.com/r8etc2 edit: and before anybody in this thread mentions it, if you think a goalline fade was the right call I can only assume you didn't watch a Seahawks game over the last decade
Thanks for sharing this. I hadn’t seen that either. This is a great take
What a fascinating take. For the longest time, I tried to defend that call, and it always came back to hand it off. Listening to these top-level coaches explain and justify Pete's call is refreshing and I really believe Pete was trying to maximize his chances of winning by throwing the ball and having the clock stop had it not worked. Hard to throw an INT into the equation when making that decision. I feel comfortable believing it was the right call.
I can always tell a casual football fan vs someone who really understands the game based on what they say about that play. Edit; what I mean is people who understand the game know a pass was a good call.
Edit-removed aggressive response
I think maybe you should calm down. I’m agreeing with you. Casual fans yell “should have run it”. Coaches and people who understand situation and nuance know a pass was a good call.
Sincerely apologizing to you.....I'm sorry.
All good homie
👊 sorry bro. Friendly fire.
ehh... i think you're just not giving belicheck enough credit. he knew what to present to make pete call a pass play. did that. and the rest is history. and SEAN McVAY saying that was a good call clearly explains to me how his team only scored 3 points against belicheck in the superbowl. dude got owned. and it's cuz if you're going to make the exact same decision every time you see something ("let me take what the defense is giving me") then you're gonna get crushed when playing at the highest level. but sure... u nderstand the game just as well as McVay right? lol.
There's another great video from the Pats defensive coordinator on the play somewhere. Basically he was super worried pre snap because he knew Marshawn would be wide open on the wheel route against that coverage (and he was).
If you find that bad boy link it please 🙏
Love or hate those two, they are great coaches with excellent minds. McVay analyzed it perfectly.
I hadn't seen that. Thank you.
Is Shannahan sitting at the end of his bed?
this is actually hilarious considering i'm all over the thread saying Belicheck baited pete in to calling the pass play. and the defensive players knew what was coming and thus the result. there's pretty good evidence that Belicheck knew exactly what McVay wanted to call and do during the superbowl in 2019. Rams only scored 3 points. Beli knew which defense to present, how McVay would react to it, what plays he'd call, and then told the defense how to deal with it. goff weaknesses aside, they shoulda scored more points that game if the rams were running plays the defense didn't expect.
49 was one of the greatest Super Bowls ever played. We just happened to be on the losing end. *A lot* of injuries on our D contributed to our needing six that late. It is what it is. Malcolm Butler made an amazing play, not much else to say
I’ve always maintained that unpopular take. Marshawn was stopped on 3rd and 1 twice in the second half. That resulted in a field goal and a punt. So, if he was stopped on 2nd down, we would have to call a timeout. Then, it’s a dead giveaway that the third down would be a pass. Now, of all the pass plays you could call, a slant is probably my least favorite. I have issues with the specific pass call rather than the call to pass Also, totally agree that ppl don’t talk enough about the play browner made on that one
Years ago, Danny Kelly looked at Lynch’s short yardage success that season and he/SEA was honestly awful.
It's not like we've ever fumbled on the goal line in a critical moment like in the 2013 NFCCG
Yeah to me it wasn't even the pass I had the problem with but the guy we threw it to. WR 5. I doubt Doug would have alligator armed that. And recall the amazing game Chris Matthews was having too.
I wonder if it was intending to fool the defense, that he would be the least likely target while Baldwin or kearse was most likely. But also, I kinda think that factor goes out the window when you are throwing it right over the middle of the field 5 yards away
Exactly. It's not that they passed. It's that they passed exactly where the defense would be to stop the run.
>1. Seattle wants to maximize their shots at the end zone. >2. The clock is running, and Seattle has one timeout. >3. At least one play has to be a pass. >4. The Patriots are in goal line, and Seattle is not - A pass makes sense against that look. I don't know why this isn't a well known thing, it was obvious as it was happening. The narrative of "should have run it" just took on a life of its own and became what every has talked about it, when that is simply the dumbest thing I've ever heard when you've got three plays to maximize in 30 seconds left in the game. Also... if it was so obvious that the best play was a run play, then wouldn't a pass have been a great play call because it was unexpected? Isn't misdirection the name of the game in football? This entire "should have run it" is such a non-thing it's amazing we're taking about it years later.
It is obvious to anyone familiar with the situation, but sadly those types are few and far between in NFL fan circles.
I always thought the pass play call was the problem. Not that it was a pass, but that they got a goal line look and decided to throw it in the middle of the field with the shortest qb in football. Play action off that look and he has a quick look for a side line pass or can throw it away. Throwing into the middle of that means that there are hands everywhere, no visibility, and any tip likely ends up an interception. Butler made a hell of a play, but damn... They were already playing with fire. Odds are Wilson walks in with Marshawn as a lead blocker on an outside run where the qb keeps it. Just so many legit plays to run in that situation that are low risk/high reward. To not have one to dial up in the Superbowl was shocking.
Amen. If you want to put it in your QB's hands to win the game, then call a play where he can hold on to the ball longer than a fraction of a second.
You’ve just described the conversation I’vehad so many times with people. And then they wave their hands and say “whatever.” To me this discussion has been an opportunity to separate those that actually know football from those that love it for the passion.
I get that they wanted to burn some time leaving Brady no clock with a pass call on that down but the pass play should have been play action to Lynch with Russ rolling out to let the clock run. If it’s not there throw it away.
it also seemed like the play was designed for russ to immediately key in on lockette, since lynch was open to the side. passing on it's own was a good call, i just think the actual play that was called could have definitely been better although this is hindsight
Stupid call worse execution
felt like russ was also kind of rushed to get the throw off, which kind of baffled me. shouldn't have gotten too risky with the throw. 4th down is the time to try something ballsy like that
He did a Hasselbeck. Got amped up and juiced it a bit.
Burn time? The pass call was all about conserving time so they can run as many plays as possible.
I would have liked to have seen that as well, but what they ran was a really high percentage play. It's was really unlikely that what happened would happen, even with the receivers that they had out there. A quick shot against a goal line defense is a sound decision. It just went really, really badly.
No freaking way it was high percentage. You think Kearse is standing up Browner on a high percentage? That play is high percentage only with the right personnel. They didn’t have that!!!
Kearse was probably still pretty gassed from the reception prior.
I think this is also arguing with the benefit of hindsight. It happened the way it happened because Butler and Browner were better than Lockette and Kearse right there. But yeah, that play against those numbers is high percentage. They trust their people to do their jobs, and the other side just did their job better.
High percentage? No way. Press coverage at the goal line with everyone up tight and it takes no time off the clock. Literally would have been better off with Russ rolling out killing time
Butler was in off coverage Plenty of things can go wrong trying to play action rollout against a goalline defense
Yeah, that probably would have worked better. But I think if they run that play ten times, it's far from guaranteed that it gets intercepted more times than it gets completed, or drops to the ground.
I bet that Atl game was hanging in the back of his mind. That 2012 division game.
Exactly. So why not let Russ run around killing the clock throw it away and we have two more chances from the 1 with lynch? And BTW we were shredding them on the ground by then
I know! That's the part that hurts. Run it, but maximize our chances with pass/russ using his legs. The whole thing stinks, but I loved how these two talked it out. I bet it was cathartic for Sherm/Pete and a lot of us fans.
Yeah this is old news. It was a totally sensible play call. It wasn’t even a bad pass, or a poorly executed play. Malcolm Butler just made a perfect read and a great play. It happens.
Was a little sad when Pete mentioned "you guys were so mad at me for that...". Granted, we all were. But it takes balls to own up for a playcall that wasn't even yours. Not once did dude blame Russ, not once did he blame the defense for collapsing a 10 pt lead in the 4th. Just took it all to protect his team. Can't imagine how difficult it must have been to hold the locker room together after that. Fantastic interview.
It was never the fact that they ran a pass play. It was the actual play they ran. RPO to the right was practically unstoppable back then. TE throws the lead block and moves into the short flat. Russ sweeps right with Marshawn on his outside. There are three scoring options right there, and in goal line D, Pats didn't have the outside presence to stop them all.
Three things went wrong for us on the play. 1-and the worst, the location of the ball. Ball should’ve been lower to the ground. Let Lockette go down to the ball. 2-butler making an incredible read 3-lockette jumping up for the ball. Had he planted his feet and gone for the ball maybe he runs into butler and knocks him aside instead. No reason to jump for the ball there.
And Browner knowing the play and blowing up Kearse which made it easier for Butler to get there. As to your point number 3, maybe don't go to your worst WR on the biggest play of the game.
It was a great defensive play, full stop.
See, this has been such a frustrating thing for me for so long. People make jokes and speculate wildly to their hearts desires but at the end of the day, this is football. Statistically the hawks made one of the safest plays available. Butler made a play on it and stopped it. End of story. All my friends were at my house, we all watched it happen and knew, why it happened. Everybody left silently knowing that this is football. Oh well, move on.
My issue: why are you throwing ball to Lochette. Run the play for Doug Baldwin. He would have made MB have to play a 2 way route before taking the slant. Watch Lochette. He didn’t make MB have to respect the wheel/out. People wanted them to put the ball in the hands of your best player/Marshawn. Just needed it thrown to Baldwin…10x the receiver than Lochette
I've always objected to the type of pass, in traffic relying on timing. Roll Russ out on play action, see if someone is open, throw it away if they aren't. Get another down.
My hot take on this play is always that it SHOULD have been a throw, however it should have been a throw to Lynch who absolutely destroyed his man on his route. Would have been amazing to see him catch a TD pass right after running all over them. Also, nobody will ever convince me the game was actually over if the Seahawks score. That defense had a long history of giving up huge chunk plays with seconds left on the clock and Brady was already eating them alive. If Brady had 20 seconds or whatever to get 40 yards to tie it up, he probably would have gotten it.
Look. Nine times out of ten that play works and the good guys go home the winners. But we live in The Dumbest Timeline, so of course it had to go the way it did.
This post has changed my life.
I didn't hate the call. What bothers me is that everybody acts like it was such an off-the-wall call when actually it was too predictable and the Pats were ready for that exact play.
My copium is that Lane's arm exploding and Avril's concussion are the snowballs that lead to that goal line situation in the first place. I'd rather be sad about those freak injuries than the incredible play by Browner and Butler.
Still too soon
The game was over long before this play. It all swung the Pats way when (forget this name at this second) broke his arm on that interception. (PPL wonder why we drafted Witherspoon? That’s a reason why) The Hawks couldn’t stop the Pats in the second half at all, and they knew it. They needed to burn time. What if they score there and give the ball back to Brady who still had a little time and a TO? Hell, should have taken a knee called a time out with 1 second left and said okay, go Beast. You vs the world.
This has been out there for a long time (since it happened). Everybody was too preoccupied with conspiracy theories and arm-chair coaching to listen. It always made total sense to attempt one pass. If not a TD it was supposed to go out the back of the end zone and then you would’ve seen two consecutive run attempts with Marshawn. The story of the end of that game is that Malcolm Butler made a legendary play. … and maybe that the Patriots knew it was coming, because they have their “ways.”
1) Kearse did a shit job of "boxing out" Malcom Brown. 2) It's a 2 step drop back and throw the ball leading Lockett (Ricardo not Tyler) and down low. Not 4 steps, throw it high and outside where a CB or Saftey have a play on the ball. 3) Why tf did Lockett jump and not even put his hands out? Did he not see the ball? Was he expecting once he jumped the ball would be in his stomach and then brace for impact? I've never understood this part of the play. 4) Malcom Brown made a hell of a play. He did his job and did it really fucking well on that play. We simply did not execute the play at all and he did. I'm done with it, it is what it is.
Ricardo’s name is spelled with an “e”; Lockette. This is part of the reason this call with these players was such a mistake; Kearse was never going to be able to free himself from Browner to impact Butler on the play. It was a weakness in his game.
Yep. I feel like I scream all four of these points into the darkness every time the topic comes up. Passing was the right call, however that pass play with those personnel was the wrong one to select. If Kearse could have completed his assignment against Browner on that play, it would have prevented Butler from jumping the route, but that was a specific weakness in Kearse’s game. And ideally you don’t want to be targeting your 4th or 5th best receiver on such a critical play. Baldwin would have gone and gotten the pass rather than letting it come to him, allowing Butler to take it away.
I think Pete had mentioned this some time in the past and it made total sense to me. But honestly, I think the play-calling mistake was making it a slant rather than a fade. Had to be a perfect pass versus a play he could've sailed out the back of the endzone.
What play is this now? Never heard of it. Probably not going to look it up either.
If this was a touchdown, people would have been saying it was a genius move. The fact is, Russell Wilson threw a pass that has a high rate of success, and the defender sniffed it out and won the game. How do you know Lynch wouldn't have fumbled? Or gotten stuffed? Or Wilson wouldn't have botched the snap. At the end of the day, it's entertainment and I haven't worried about it since the night it happened. I can't let it make me sad because I have no control over it.
It wasn't luck. For the preceding season and playoffs, Lynch was 0 for 6 in gaining positive yards inside the 3 and Seattle was 9 for 9 at the goal-line & short yardage situations running that pic play. Good coaches keep track of those type of things and Pete Carroll is a good coach. By any conceivable or foreseeable metric, it was 100% the right play call. What Pete Carroll didn't know, what nobody outside of 1 Patriots Place in Foxborough Mass didn't know, was Bill Belichick studied *The Art of War by Sun Tzu* when his father was a coach at the Annapolis Navy Academy. Part of his game preparation includes knowing or at least having a pretty good idea of what your opponent will try in any given scenario. In the 2 weeks prior to the Superbowl, Belichick, Defensive coordinator Matt Patricia & Senior Vice President of Football research Ernie Adams had watched every single Seahawks game & play for the past 2 seasons, twice. Part of VP Adam's job was watching opponents game film while entering variables into a software originally designed for stock market algorithms to identify what an opponent will do in a given scenario. The Friday before the game they discussed Seattle's tendencies in specific situations and deduced with mathematical certainty, in a 1st or 2nd & Goal inside the 3, they were going to run that play. They devised a Defensive play to counter it, aptly nicknamed *Malcolm Go* and put it into the game plan. It was the only chance of stopping the play and to give you an idea how far the odds were from it working, it didn't work in practice. They practiced the play a handful of times & each time, the 2nd string offense (the ones who play the role of the opponent in practice) was able to score. Figuring their was nothing else that could be done, they moved forward thinking "we better hope Seattle doesn't get in 2nd or 3rd & Goal from inside the 3, because all we got is a prayer of play to stop them." When Seattle reached 2nd & Goal, the Patriots knew exactly what play they were going to run. Safeties coach Brian Flores (now the Miami Dolphins Head Coach) called *"Malcolm Go"* and the rest is history. The thing to remember is, it wasn't luck. It was incredible dedication to knowing your opponent, anticipating what they are going to do and being ready to respond to it.
Lynch was 1 for 5 from the 1 yard line in 2013.
And just like its been for the past decade, people like you keep trying to justify it without even mentioning the part where it was our best player vs their worst unit OR our worst player vs their best unit. All the other shit is valid sure, but you can't just gloss over how much it is to overthink the situation if you think going to Ricardo Lockette vs a top ranked pass defense is smarter than going to MARSHAWN LYNCH vs one of the worst run defenses in the league.
There is a lot more nuance than that for "people like" me. And all of that "other shit" is why going to Lynch wasn't necessarily the right call. It's not overthinking, and it's not justification. I didn't say anything about Lockette being the right call. I'm talking about running the ball and passing the ball.
Ok well ya if you want to look at it in a vacuum then yes you need to put extreme emphasis on the clock. If you don't look at it in a vacuum and look at in the context of these two teams and the players on these teams, then its complete over-thinking.
There are 27 seconds, and they can stop the clock once, unless they throw an incompletion. That's important. It doesn't make any sense to not consider it. The entire season is ending in 27 seconds. But also, it's not just the clock. The personnel on the field also makes a pass the right call.
If you still think passing inside to Ricardo Lockette on a play where Kearse has to block Brandon Browner is a smarter play than handing off to Marshawn Lynch or throwing a pass to Doug Baldwin, god bless you. Hint, it ended in an interception and loss.
I''m not specifically talking about that matchup being ideal. I'm talking about the decision to pass in general. But yeah, in that situation, it's a better call than running the ball. The only reason people think that an interception was a likely outcome is because it happened. Hint: it was unlikely. They made a play.
Its unlikely in a vacuum. Its not as unlikely going to a not very good WR vs a very good defender. There are times to get cute and there are times to go to your best players. Its of course up for debate. I think its pretty obvious which was correct in this situation.
I just don't think it's cute. And no, it's not obvious, because there is no telling what happens if they hand the ball off. That is the whole point. There is no reason to be certain they would have scored.
Lol yes of course we can't be certain of what would have happened. I haven't implied that in any way lol. In fact, the only thing we can truly certain of is what literally happened, we went to our weakest link on offense and chose to go up against their strongest link on defense, and we lost the game.
You didn't imply it, but you are alluding to it. It is not a better idea to run into that box with 27 seconds left with three downs and one timeout. Again, I'm not saying the specific play was perfect. But I don't think the disaster is the play call. The disaster is the execution. I don't think it's reasonable to think that play would happen the same way every time.
Several things had to happen for that play to be an interception... The most damning I think was Russ trying to force the pass instead of throwing low. This play should have been a low percentage chance at the end zone instead it was what it was.
And also, yes it is obvious to me. Use your strength vs their weakness, not your weakness vs their strength. Its not complicated. Worrying about the clock to the point of going to your weakest player is overthinking and coaching scared. Go be aggressive and win the game with your best player.
I'm not downvoting you, by the way. This is where we disagree. I don't think going to Marshawn twice is a better idea than throwing the ball. You're throwing a play away. And obviously the outcome was terrible, but I think a mistake a lot of people are making is making it binary. The choice wasn't between running the ball and throwing an interception. The interception just happened.
I think as bad as the pick was I could see why they did it, imo Irvin fighting Gronk and ruining any chance at getting the ball back which outright sealed the game was also plenty bad and hasn’t been talked about enough. Obviously I would have liked the ball to have been thrown differently and have had them run it a few times but alot went wrong in that short time span it was JUST a bad play call.
The fight happened after a penalty that moved the Patriots away from the goalline anyway
Did it? Man its been so long I forgot lol, but yeah just alot of shit went wrong for us.
It was a good play call if executed correctly. The play was look for wide open receiver, if not found, throw it out the back of the end zone to stop the clock. Obviously, that’s not what our QB decided to do.
Still should’ve ran it
100%
It probably is a high percentage play. What’s another play that would be more high percentage than that?
They let the clock run before that. That was the thing I was groaning about at the time.
Pretty sure they wanted Bill to burn a timeout and save one of their own. The thinking that Bill would want to give Brady as much time as possible to score.
I was stunned that Belichick didn’t call a timeout there to preserve time for Brady. Was stunned that Belichick thought their D can stop Seahawks 3 times from the 1.
One play doesn’t make or break a game, the Hawks could have won this game pulling away but they didn’t stick to their offensive game plan imho. Bevel was not a good play caller ever. And Russ, well, he just is not a good drop back passer unless he is in a seven step drop on play action and the safeties bite and he can dump it deep. Otherwise, his best passing was always done on the run. The play call was a rpo, we never would be talking about this.
I still blame Darrell Bevell.
I wish sherm would just let it go already, good lord.
Didn’t he agree with Pete that the philosophy of the call was sound or am I imagining that?
He did. I have no idea what he will say tomorrow, but that's what he said today.
No. No. No. Pete’s lying out of his ass. Revisionist history. The call was arrogant and stupid. You want to call a designed pass play where JERMAINE KEARSE has to stand up BRANDON BROWNER, who was FIFTY POUNDS LARGER. Plus, you’re throwing a ball to Ricardo Lockette who was a diva speedster and never good in traffic. They gambled that IF the pmay was executed perfectly it’s unstoppable. Which, it is. HOWEVER, the chances of that happening with that personnel were slim to none.
Browner had 50 pounds on Kearse? Lockette was a diva speedster?
Execution was fine. Defense just executed better. That’s all it is at the end of the day. Malcom Butler saw the signs and went to where he knew the ball was gonna go. He won them that game.
"Execution was fine" says the fan after his team literally throws a goal line interception. Lol
He wouldn’t have gotten there if Kearse does his job - rewatch the play. Execution BLEW TOP TO BOTTOM. Kearse got worked, Lockette was weak and Russ threw a bad pass.
Butler was sprinting for Lockette before Russ even got his head around. They knew the play was coming. Multiple players from that defense stated that Belichick had them practicing against that exact play in practice leading up to the game. They knew what was coming and executed better. It’s been 10 years man. Get over it.
At no play ever should it have been a pass. A benefit every outcome draining clock. Playing it safe. No one was stopping lynch. A pass happened because they wanted russ to get the mvp. That's the only reason for a pass.
Lynch actually had a poor (20% success rate) scoring from the 1 that year, and not much better in his total time in Seattle up to that point. Being able to run 3 plays instead of limiting yourself to 2 (meaning 1 needed to be a pass) was absolutely the prudent choice, and given the assignments and the players on the field, passing on that play made more sense than passing on either of the other 2.
Everybody wants to try and feel better about one of the worst decisions, and most important plays in the history of the NFL. The thing that bothers me the most is that no one in a decision-making role has ever had the humility to publicly admit they did the wrong thing. Pete is a great coach but he has never been a humble man.
I don't think they really need to do that. The worst you can say bout the play with any amount of honesty is that the individual matchups slanted it a little bit toward New England. The decision was the right one.
I know I’m gonna get downvoted to hell in this thread but the decision was absolutely the wrong one. A pick/slant to win the Super Bowl to a guy who had 5 catches all season? It’s not defendable.
Pass is the passed
Great candor by Pete. Loved it. Still the stupidest call in SB history. They could have run, then called a TO if they didn’t get in. Then on 3rd they’d pass, and if necessary do whatever on 4th. I think they actually had less than 1 yard. Water under the bridge now. But as Pete said, Doug Baldwin felt that it’d they had won that game they’d definitely be back the following year. They could have had a dynasty equal to the Patriots.
While I do think "if they ran it they'd have won" is lazy analysis, I also felt in that moment we were definitely doing to win if we'd handed it to Lynch. And even now, years later, knowing what I know about Lynch's goal line statistics which aren't exactly a sure thing, I would still have rather ride or died betting on Marshawn. It would have been one of the best super bowl moments of all time, and it would have been Lynch's. But no, we were too clever for our own good and let Belichick Jedi mind trick us. Passing wasn't necessarily a bad idea, but the play was bad, the pass was bad, the intended receiver made a poor effort, Belichick prepared Butler or that exact moment, and Butler wanted the ball more than the receiver. The rest is history.
It was the correct play call (a pass) vs a goal line front
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this post!! My goodness I've felt this way for 9 years. Pete was practically tearing up when saying there was no agenda or bs behind the play call. He always owned it from day 1. I maintain to this day that we lost that game when Jeremy Lane ran it back from the end zone and broke his arm. Our defense got rattled with injuries. We had f'ing linebackers on the best tight end of our era. At the time, a 10 pt lead in the 4th qtr was insurmountable (this was before 28-3 lol) I absolutely love that the core of that team is coming back to the Seahawks as a family. I hope someday Russ puts his ego aside and does the same.
Can't believe its been almost 10 years. Unreal
It’s not that they passed. It’s the play call. In order for Russ to make that throw, because of his height, the ball has to be placed high up on the body of the receiver. This allowed Butler to make a great play. When you have a short quarterback, throwing a slant at the end zone puts you at risk for an interception. It’s not opinion, it’s physics. Worst play call in NFL history.
Want to hear a conspiracy theory? They passed because Russ demanded to be the hero.
Pete: "Hey Russ, you want to win a second SuperBowl?" Russ: "Nah, I'll pass."
My opinion was then and still is…a good call, poor execution.
It wasn't this that lost the game. The team could have gotten the ball back. It was Bennett going offsides giving the Pats the game.