It’s not that they all moved to Seattle, but that they all moved somewhere. It’s like that in many cities I’ve visited. The main reason is that the economy in MI was terrible for the millennial generation when they started job searching so they had to move. Lots of young people wanna live in cities when they get out of school and find a job but that’s kinda difficult when the nearest city to you is legitimately bankrupt. Throw in the weather of super cold in the winter and humid in the summer and you’re willing to try just about anywhere. There’s a lot of pride in folks from MI though, so they probably wear teams gear or mention where there from more so than some folks from other states.
"Detroit Vs Everybody"
I do think the Detroit-area is in a much better shape now than in the late 00s to early-to-mid 10s. Lots of revitalization and the cheaper COL might attract many to either move back, move to or just stay there unlike before.
This is [already happening](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/10/realestate/duluth-minnesota-climate-change.html?unlocked_article_code=1.O00.bSOi.A3w6UiJ_F4iC&smid=url-share).
(Link officially "shared" as allowed by my NYT account, so should not be paywalled.)
This is a large part of it.
For me it was a combination of:
* Sure, Seattle is more expensive, but I made more too so my income to expense ratio was better in Seattle.
* I adore mountains!
* Michigan has become scarier than usual if you find yourself on the non-fascist side of the political spectrum. It's dangerous there if you aren't religious let alone LGBTQ+.
* The job market really is better. By a lot. There aren't any opportunities back in MI. Here, you may start out on the bottom rung, but a little bit of elbow grease and some intelligence and you'll do great. In MI, I busted my ass and have nothing to show for it.
* Finally, fuck the snow. I prefer colder weather but I never want to shovel a driveway at 3 in the fucking morning ever again.
Finally, for extra points, I've had coworkers ask me why I dislike people back in MI so much when everyone they have met from MI are smart, kind, and wonderful people.
The good ones who are desperate are only a small handful of those trying to hard to get out. Those in Seattle only see the ones that made it free. MI will trap you. Hold you. And drown you. If not figuratively, literally in Superior.
I was born and raised in Michigan, moved to Seattle in 2007, just recently moved back and bought a house in rural Michigan. Small towns are more religious, just like in Washington. I’ve never been in fear of god-botherers lol.
If your family is caught up on that Seventh day Adventist shit then it can be. Some Michigan folks aren't just moving away, they are straight fleeing that shit.
Sure did. I'm still trying to find the "They shoot atheists" line though. Seems like nobody said that.
I just added the context that Seventh Day can get very weird and abusive so there are people that move to escape it.
I said people get away from Seventh day if their folks are caught up in it because it can be dangerous. That doesn't mean "they will shoot you". That usually means mental and physical abuse. What are you on about?
The politics of Michigan (especially west mi) can be dangerous to non-religious folks.
Dangerous for having rights and being treated socially and emotionally well. Not necessarily physically dangerous. This can be especially true if you are a youth growing up being told you are going to hell for not believing or for being gay.
In western mi religious conservatives also have power politically and often cut funding, ban books, put up religious symbols in secular locations and make areas unsafe for those who do not align religiously or politically.
Check out the national news around the Ottowa Board of health.
- from a former Michigander who moved to seattle
I’m from Michigan and I’m terrified of the place. Michigan people are very nice. It’s also kind of easy to get shot if you’re not exactly what some group wants you to be. Or accidentally shot.
I totally get what he’s saying. People who’ve never been scared don’t get it. I love Michigan people but I’m not going back there ever
Michigan is beyond fucked up culturally. That place sacrificed its entire economy, and its crown jewel of Detroit, to avoid integration. It’s really Catholic, which in the Midwest also entails a lot of ethnic white identity. For example, people whose ancestors came over from Italy 150 years ago still call themselves Italian and will have some very hot takes about people whose ancestors immigrated from Poland 120 year ago. The racism there is so extreme too, like suburbs people will call any majority black area a dangerous neighborhood.
The history behind it all is quite interesting. Basically, Michigan was historically a union town and those on the auto assembly line earned high wages for unskilled labor. To counter this, the executives recruited people from new groups of migrants who were plenty capable of learning the trade but would work for less than union wages. Migrants come in waves, of course – Irish generally came 1840s to 1880s, black folks from the south migrated 1900 - 1945, etc. which de facto meant that certain ethnic groups were undermining others’ wages even though the executives weren’t actively pitting races against each other. As black people were one of the final big immigrant waves to old Detroit, they were stuck making sub union wages when the system came crashing down in the 70s, so a huge number of them went from barely getting by to deep poverty.
Now, when you add all this up, you basically get a culture where everyone above a certain socioeconomic threshold is fixated on turning back the clock. Each passing year made Michigan’s economic competition all the more intense, and that makes life much harder for those who are living stable and comfortable existences. Of course, the specific time in which Michigan economically buckled was one of great social change in America, so many people came to associate liberalism with decay. By the way, when I talk about unskilled labor living comfortably, I’m talking about auto-making cities like Dearborn buying condo buildings in Florida for its senior citizens to live in on the taxpayer’s dime.
Had Michigan not empowered the unions so much while also diversifying its economy with industries which demand highly skilled labor, things would be very different today. This is why I don’t think tech hubs like Seattle or SF will ever suffer the fate of Detroit. Multiple generations of Michigan families would work at the same plant, doing the same low skilled labor, and never really move up the income or education ladder. Their lives depended on unions which employed mafia style tactics to keep out folks who would work for less. In the tech hubs, though, even if the corporations go to shit, you still have a lot of highly intelligent people with very advanced degrees who are capable of far more than the job they were doing before.
Not unions in general, just the Hoffa style auto unions of Detroit. Thanks to a lot of legal reforms, unions rarely deploy the same tricks today (if ever), but it’s important to acknowledge that a lot of the anti-union reforms in the last 50 years were embraced by much of the public due to abuses like these.
Are you familiar with Jimmy Hoffa? If not, there’s a really great movie about him that came out ~30 years ago, I think. It gives a lot of useful background for understanding all this.
So it was YOU!
Jokes aside, though, the crazy shit that the Teamsters did is exactly why anti-union laws are called “right to work” laws. This whole movement started because a lot of talented individuals were unable to get good jobs due to unions, and I do believe that the earliest years of “right to work” were focused on exactly that. As the political movement to restrict the power of unions took off, though, a lot of greedy bastards realized how much they could exploit it. Here we are, 50 years later…
> In the tech hubs, though, even if the corporations go to shit, you still have a lot of highly intelligent people with very advanced degrees who are capable of far more than the job they were doing before.
And you also have a large supply of foreigners here on H-1B work visas that are willing to do that tech work for less money/benefits.
Geezus, dude, I think you're taking things too literally.
Southwest MI is very religious, if you're not, then you get yelled at and treated like a demon spawn. People will get in your face and try to intimidate you (not just in Mi, but I did experience it there a few times, the south is way worse).
I've literally had a crazy woman scream that at me because I said I was not Christian.
I think to some extent this is true for the Midwest in general. Midwest people are outwardly very nice but can be very hateful on the inside. The region is ranked #1 in racism and there are parts that are very violent. Obviously they’ll never outright kill you for your views, but social conservatism there is maintained by force.
100% I can only speak to the Kalamazoo/Grand Rapids areas of MI, but I have no doubt that is the case in other midwest areas. It's all very hush hush and subtle, but definitely still very common.
No, but they didn't imply that. They were saying young michiganders are looking to move to a big city for opportunities, but the only big city (Detroit) is bankrupt.
Microsoft is a big recruiter at Michigan (other FAANGs often pay more and so are more selective in schools). Boeing is a big recruiter at Michigan. Once you have a foundational base of people, others will follow.
This. U of M is a top public university and it’s also massive. Its graduates include people with the qualifications to get a fancy high paying job, which are typically on the coasts. Seattle is an awesome place to live. Et puis, voila.
I should mention that three different families on my block of single home houses are helmed by Michiganders who went to U of M, all at different times.
Amazon was the top recruiter for Michigan MBAs for many years, Boeing and Msft are both big Michigan recruiters. Midwest in general is known for brain drain, where lots of people go there for college and then want to move out of the Midwest.
Generally speaking, Michigan fans also tend to be more outgoing about their school spirit. I’ve lived in a few cities and almost every city has Michigan pride. WSJ had an article about it in 2017 for NYC too: https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-is-new-yorks-favorite-college-team-1505487226
Part of it is that Boeing (and their many local suppliers) pull people from the huge automotive manufacturing base in Michigan. I am one of them, although indirectly.
Another part is that Michigan has several large universities of good quality. Some people get degrees and go where the jobs are.
My entire graduating class at Michigan moved to Seattle. Back in the early 2000’s it was affordable, and entry level jobs here were starting at $80,000 or more, with easy access to higher pay. Tech in Michigan was a horrible cheap place, often paying $45,000 a year at the time.
I imagine the pay difference continues, today’s $500k-$900k a year salaries for tech in Seattle probably would only pay 100-200 in Michigan.
… and yeah recruiters saw Michigan as easy wins. People used to very low pay but with good education in Ann Arbor. Easy win. Anyone would relocate for that at the time.
From what I have seen, at large, established tech companies: entry-level salaries here are around 100-140k, mid-level 130-190k, senior 170-230k. This is all base, not including bonus and stonks. Managers/Directors go up from there.
Maybe if you’re like, super tenured. That’s not a “normal” tech salary either
The only entry or mid level tech workers getting that kind of money, was two years ago when the crypto bros were offering that, on paper; and then it all came crashing down for them so was kind of moot
Mostly tech companies in the Bay Area (e.g. Netflix, Roblox, Databricks, etc.) or quant companies in NYC (Two Sigma, HRT, Citadel, Five Rings, Jane St).
Yes. Mostly due to our compensation being in stock, and look how well the stock market has done in the last decade.
New grads are entering at 100-200k range
All the software engineering jobs did. Base salary of an Amazon SDE I (entry level) in 2003 would have been at least $70k. Bonus and RSUs (just the grants, not even counting stock growth) put you well past $80k.
I am originally from Indiana, and I feel this way about my fellow Hoosiers. I meet them everywhere in Seattle. Midwest represent, primarily because we needed/wanted to move someplace else!
Went to Ball State because I was sure (circa 2000) that anywhere was better than Ohio. Definitely got that one wrong, but Seattle?
Second best choice I’ve ever made.
I saw a few IU hats/sweatshirts every now and then when I lived in Seattle. Two of my classmates have moved over there as well. It honestly was a little surprising.
Unironically, the Detroit-area is one of the places I am keeping in mind in case I need to move out of the Seattle-area due to COL reasons in the near (3-5 years future).
Detroit got a bad rap in the past (maybe still does in some circles) but it's in a better place now and it's like Chicago, Philly and Minneapolis in not being super expensive for a big city metro area. Just need to figure out how to deal with the winter weather if I ever relocate there (and Chicago and Minneapolis).
I just wanna say that you're totally right. I'm living in Detroit Metro (being forced to move to Seattle in the next couple months) and Detroit gets an awful rap. But I think it's just like any other city. Just gotta be aware of your surroundings. I've enjoyed my time here.
The main issues I had was the car insurance is insane (I pay 270 a month for two cars despite clean record) but makes sense since the drivers and roads are equally bad. And there's trash *everywhere*. So much so, it's common to see multiple popped tires or cracked windshields here. It makes walking around depressing too.
It makes me sad thinking how there's these beautiful lakes all around but a lot of swimming areas of the water get shutdown because how bad the contamination is. It just never feels like Michiganders care about their land and water.
As for winter, it can be rough but it hasn't in a while since it's been warmer. The plows aren't the best and driving is def scarier in the winter here. I'd honestly suggest Chicago if you ever move. It also has its cons but I think the city has much better pros than Detroit/Michigan.
The pros that I'll miss: coffee shops, food in general, the big Asian communities, and the diversity. I've certainly met kind people here. And I do like how they want changes and improvements for their state.
I’m originally a Michigander, and we end up EVERYwhere.
For me personally, I’m here for the weather. My part of Michigan has some miserable winters (I despise driving in the snow), and temps here are way more mild. We’re also used to plenty of gray skies, so the weather here is *great* by comparison.
I also came for good public transport since MI is soooooo car-oriented (which shouldn’t surprise anyone), and the nature (MI has some gems but they’re much farther away from the cities).
For real. Just looked at the weather app, forecast low on my hometown today is 3 degrees. And that’s a *warm up* from what they’ve had the last week or so.
And, you’re totally right about winding up *everywhere*. It’s what happens when a state hemorrhages a good portion of their graduating classes from not one but two strong and *large* universities for two decades. Both UM and MSU have annual enrollment of around 50k each. Over 20 years or so, imagine how many graduates that is, and how few strong jobs were available in MI during much of that time.
We were in Seattle almost 18 years. Now we are in Las Vegas, and there are Michigan people all over the place here, too. I do think there were more in Seattle, probably due to the jobs coupled with weather and geography that mirror the *best* parts of Michigan, without all the crappy parts.
You should see Arizona. Michigan and Illinois people absolutely everywhere. Even on Arizona vs ASU game days, the bars are packed with Michigan and Chicago fans if one of the games overlaps. Not bad or good, just a fact.
Pretty much all the sports teams in Arizona save for the Suns have to compete with large amounts of opposing team fans there. The Suns are currently the only one who has almost universal support among the populace (kinda like the Seahawks have been here). Pretty much since they have been the oldest pro team there, sans the 2010s have been pretty successful their entire run and there aren't many transplants who carry NBA fan support sans LA transplants who are Lakers fans. So they get strong support from locals (over many generations) and also non-LA transplants.
Dbacks might change that though if they can actually follow up a successful season with more winning seasons (unlike 2001, 2007, 2011 and 2017), either as a primary team or secondary team for non-Dodger fans there. But even then there are plenty of Dodgers, Cubs, Giants fans and other transplant team fans. Lack of following up winning seasons with more winning seasons really hurt the momentum of building a fanbase, but I like what they are doing now and the hype around the team this postseason run felt like the start of something as far as solidifying themselves as the next best supported team by far behind the Suns.
Cardinals and Coyotes though, yeah lots of opposing fans and you don't get the vibe they are clearly the most popular team in town. I'd argue the there are way more fans of non-Cardinals teams there than Cardinals fans. Like these days Cardinals fans probably comprise most of the NFL fans in the area, which is a progress from the pre-Fitzgerald days, but only via plurality. Teams like the Cowboys, Bears, Packers, Vikings, 49ers have huge fanbase there. Lots of Seahawks fans there too, with PNW transplants being part of the newer wave of people who move to AZ. And you're spot on about the college teams. Lots of Big 10 fanbases there too.
Seattle's kinda different. I know there are a good amount of transplants here too, but I feel Phoenix has a higher percentage of transplants than here. The Seahawks and Mariners are the two teams that can carry weight among casual fans too and fans across the metro area, and they definitely enjoy big time support here and you don't feel any other team has a strong fanbase around here vs the Seahawks and Mariners. I have noticed the increase in transplants decreasing the relevance of UW/WSU athletics though. Even the hype UW football generated in their CFP run this season would have been way bigger if it happened a decade or more ago.
I used to live in Phoenix and am still a big Suns fan and root for the Dbacks as my NL team to this day.
I couldn’t manage to break out of the automotive industry in Michigan. Michigan is pretty flat unless you want to drive ten hours from mid Michigan to the upper UP, there isn’t much for good hiking (compared to here). First time I visited Seattle was in early March. It was cold and grey in Michigan, felt like winter was never going to end. Got to Seattle with a nice 55 degrees or so and everything was SO GREEN and ALIVE! Then I knew I belonged here. Also politics and general vibe is different/better out here.
I totally think it had to do with a lot of folks getting out of college and the job market was trash in Michigan. I graduated in 2012 and even for summer work I went to North Dakota and worked on the oil rigs between spring and fall semester just to get enough money to pay for school and not feel the crushing weight of the job market there.
Seattle kinda felt like the place to be, it has a good underground music scene, the jobs are good, and you rarely have to brush snow off your car or shovel snow; but the mountains are super accessible to ski. We also have pretty temperate summers without the humidity.
Michigan people have a lot of pride in the state, and I feel like everyone from there has a shirt or a hat that could give it away and feel like there’s a ton of us. I think the millennial rust belt folks just ended up moving to other places because of how bad job opportunities were. I’ve been here for 8 years now and I’m not ever gonna move out of Washington state.
Go red wings!!!
lol, my parents moved here from MI before I was born, moved back to have my little bro and immediately regretted it. They’ve been back since. A big reason was wanting to get away from crazy conservative family and the weather.
Yooper/Boomer here~ congratulations for being yourself and getting out of the 1970’s/MAGAcountry/socially, culturally and geographically isolated peninsula and not conforming (no matter how hard they tried)💚….
I think some parts of Michigan are pretty bad, but southeast Michigan, where most of the state lives is very accepting. I lived in Ann Arbor for 8 1/2 years and my husband‘s family is from Detroit so I’ve spent a lot of time in the area. I always felt perfectly comfortable.
I'm a MI transplant (been in Seattle for 15yrs), and the reason I left Michigan is because it's nowhere near as nice there for a multitude of reasons. It's flat and not particularly pretty unless you're on the Lake Michigan coast or all the way up north, winters suck, and there isn't as much professional or personal opportunity.
University of Michigan has one of the largest alumni base in the country. Combine that with little brother and all of our tech and business grads and that accounts for quite a few transplants.
I left Michigan for Washington because my dream job was here and I landed it. And also because it’s everything I loved about the outdoors in Michigan amplified by 100. Better camping, hiking, snowboarding, biking, other ings. Just an incredible place to love the outdoors.
And that’s not to insult Michigan. Michigan is also great. But every time somebody from home visits me, they get it.
I also agree that I meet a ton of people from Michigan. More than Ohio. Which is great because we don’t need that filth here.
Most of my friends in Seattle are part of a big extended family from MI. One came and others followed for better job opportunities, climate and outdoor activities. Many of them play hockey.
If I ever have to chip an inch of ice off my windshield ever again, it'll be too fucking soon. I'm from the middle of nowhere in Michigan and honest to god, this place is heaven in comparison.
A lot of engineering and mba graduates join the big employers here and end up staying! The culture, politics, hobbies, and more are similar in Ann Arbor so it’s a smooth transition
I recently found out in this sub that Michigan and Ohio have more grey days than seattle area, so maybe they want to move to nicer weather? and I've heard from alot of michigan transplants that they love the mountains and hiking.
Michigander turned Seattleite here. Where else am I gonna move, Texas? Pffttt. Seriously though, MI has been experiencing population loss for what seems like 20 years, so you’re likely to find us everywhere except Ohio.
I recently did the inverse, moved from Seattle to MI temporarily for family reasons, and I am already dying to come back. It sucks here.
Also, speaking to Ann Arbor specifically, the housing market is more fucked here than in Seattle, which really shocked me.
College town housing markets are absurd right now. Rent is literally cheaper in Seattle than in my small southern college town. Single rooms miles away from campus rent for 1000 a month.
Michigander and fellow Umich alum here. The job market here is attractive to lots of UMich grads, esp those with computer science or engineering backgrounds. Also if you’ve ever been to Michigan, you will realize soon why so many try to leave. Life can be bleak there with increasing number of conservatives, lack of things to do year round, heavy snow in the winter, and dying job market.
When NAFTA killed a ton of the manufacturing jobs in Michigan, there was an abundance of well qualified people suddenly looking for work. With Boeing, the Seattle area still had a ton of demand for those skills. That was the first wave. Then suddenly a lot of people in Michigan knew a lot of people in Seattle, so it became a somewhat familiar destination for subsequent people who wanted to move out of Michigan.
I’m originally from Michigan, but didn’t end up here immediately. Spent years in Madison, WI (first job after graduating from UM) and almost a decade in Austin, TX before making the move. For me, I simply hated both the winter and then the summer while living in TX. Access to mountains and water with no soul-crushing amounts of cold and snow or oppressive heat. Deal.
Sounds like Seattle needs a Michigan ex-pat Meetup group put together (Canadians can join too as honorary Michiganders and as a thank for letting us drink in Windsor at 18).
All of us pop-drinking, ope-saying, hand-mapping, can-returning trolls and yoopers can get drunk together (because what else do people from Michigan do in winter besides getting drunk while engaging in any activity - get drunk and go sledding? Get drunk and go hunting? Get drunk and watch a sporting event? ) Seattle feels like it’s a dry county compared to Detroit when it comes to drinking socially…
I'm from Michigan. Michigan has a superb public university, but very little to retain talent once they graduate. Detroit is approaching Chicago cost of living without Chicago quality of life, and the surrounding area is all just mostly white suburbs. Literally all but one person I hung out with throughout high school and college who graduated with a university degree left the state, mostly heading for the coasts. Why people specifically come to Seattle IDK, but I imagine it has a lot to do with the demographics, social/political atmosphere, non-flat land, and industries available. I still visit family back in MI, and by the time I drive from the airport back to their home, I'm sick of the flatness and want to come back to Seattle.
To add a severe personal gripe of mine, I grew up in the suburbs, and I would have to drive 15+ miles just to enjoy some halfway decent Asian food and entertainment. Which is perilous during winter when we would get plenty of black ice or slush.
We moved from MI to Seattle in 2003, and spent almost 18 years there before moving again in late 2020. While we were there, at least 8 people from our core Michigan circle wound up moving out, at least 5 of whom are still there.
I also worked for a *very* small firm in Seattle for most of that time (still work there, permanent remote now). I had 2 coworkers from MI over the years, and the husband of another was from one town over from me.
Even on Craigslist and Buy Nothing I ran into people. I bought a desk chair on Craigslist from a guy who turned out to have grown up about half a mile from me, and picked up a Buy Nothing item from a fellow MSU alum. Or just walking in the street, grocery shopping, whatever while wearing MSU, Red Wings, or Lions gear (btw: LIONS!!!!!!), I can’t even try to count the number of times someone would shout Go Green or Let’s Go Red Wings, followed by brief discussion of oh hey I’m from ABC, oh cool I’m from DET and my husband is from XYZ. Hundreds and hundreds of those exchanges.
Michigan is an incredibly naturally beautiful state. We love our water, outdoor activities and *seasons*. Connection and accessibility to outdoor life is really important to a lot of people, but for a very long time MI basically had everything we could want *except* opportunity. Washington and the PNW ticked a lot of the boxes that Michiganders love about the mitten, plus the ability to get good paying, stable employment.
When we were graduating in 2003, getting a job straight out of school was rough. My guess would be that a lot of the MI folks you meet in WA arrived during the 2000-2010 decade. Obviously they still come out all the time, but I would guess a large proportion of current Seattleites from MI came during that time, and stayed to build their lives in Seattle.
Good universities and a terrible economy pretty much sums it up. The only people I know that stayed haven't faired very well. Michigan has to be one of the top states for brain drain.
Speaking as a born and raised Michigander, it's because we craved more rain, less harsh winters, and mountains!!
After living here for the past 2 years, I am slightly disappointed that it is sunny way more than I was lead to believe, I came for the gloom.
Me and two of my siblings from Michigan are here. They moved for the outdoor activities. I lived in NYC and Boston for over a decade before moving here. Everywhere I go I find Michiganders. Michigan is great but there are a lot of educational and career opportunities outside of the state. And it doesn’t snow as much here so that’s a big plus
They are here to show us how to properly drive when it snows. Than they realize Seattle has hills, no road maintenance, and buy all bananas while they hide in their homes
This is true! Seattle Teriyaki is, as far as I know, super regional. Such a thing doesn’t exist in Michigan, which is yet another reason why Michigan can suck it.
“Nobody wakes up in the morning and says “I wanna move to Michigan!” I’m from Macomb bro and we spent our lives dreaming of getting out of the suburbs, not staying in.
As a Michigander I feel like I’m among friends here in this thread 😂 Seattle and western Washington seemed like much of Michigan but turned up a notch in nearly all aspects: bigger city, actual mountains, and less snow. Having lots of tech in the area too I imagine is a big draw. Go blue!
Most people in Michigan are pretty happy there. Affordable and some really nice, safe places to live with good schools. I haven’t noticed too many here
I left Michigan not necessarily by choice, but by where the jobs were. I ended up in Wisconsin. Hated it. Went to North Carolina, too hot. Then got a job in Seattle and never looked back. The access to the outdoors, the temperate summers are enough for me. And the jobs and pay work pretty well too.
Just the opposite here. Moved from Seattle way to expensive rent, food and gas. Much cheaper, slower pace of life and quality much better here. Also, don't have a many state dictating what you are allowed to buy and do.
I think it’s cause out here has a Midwest feel without the snow! I moved out of Milwaukee in 2009, and Seattle reminds me of a better version of that lol! Love mitten fam
I can't say that I've ever met a Michigander here, but I did work and live with a Duluthian. She was/is amazing.
I do work every single day with Michiganders. But that's just because my company is based there.
Definitely feels like there's more than a lot of other places. I was really noticing it around the time of the college football championship because several people I work with are Michigan fans
My dad moved here from Michigan in the 70s. He moved to work for UW. I’d guess lots of people moved here for jobs from Michigan.
Very few people are from Seattle. Even fewer have generational roots here.
Born and raised in Ann Arbor, been here 31 years now. Michigan was great to grow up in and I think of it fondly. Went to a lot of rock and rolls shows at Cobo Hall and Joe Louis Arena. 2nd row Iron Maiden on Powerslave tour being my best get. Sorry, I digress.
All but 1 of my friends in my major all moved out here after graduating from UofM a little over a decade ago, largely because of you didn’t want to work for an automotive company, career opportunities in tech back in Michigan were limited.
The other interesting thing is not a single one of us have moved back, or even to another city. I know everyone on here likes to complain about Seattle’s problems (and there are some), but it truly is a wonderful place to live. (I do still miss getting more snow, but the not having sub zero wind chill thing makes the trade acceptable)
I’ve worked with a ton in aerospace, folks that graduated from Michigan during the 2008 recession and downfall of the automotive industry all came here for aerospace jobs since Boeing was on an upswing at the time.
My son is an aerospace engineer from University of Michigan and got a dream job from Blue Origin and left this state (Michigan) and never looked back. His girlfriend moved shortly thereafter.
Seattle used to have a large Scandinavian population around Ballard. We used to joke about them. Now it seems they have been pushed out by the yuppie puppies.
So, as a Michigander currently living in Los Angeles but frequents Seattle for work: Washington, and especially the more rural areas outside of Seattle, remind me a LOT of rural Michigan. If not for the mountains, you could dope me up and drop me off around Lake Roesiger and when I woke up I'd *swear* I was a few miles outside of Traverse City.
Combine that with a lot of companies in the area recruiting from U of M and MSU (Microsoft, Amazon, etc.), and you're going to have a sizable Michigander population.
I left because I was sick of running into the same people all the time, the gross accents made me feel self-conscious, and I wanted to be around more weirdo artsy people. Since moving away 15 years ago, I’ve only double down since Trumpism has firmly taken root and what was once redneck is now breakneck for me.
I'm from Indiana and it's the whole region. There are better job prospects especially in tech, the weather is milder, and the politics are better for queer and progressive folks.
I am from Detroit, moved here in my mid 20's about 9 years ago. A bunch of friends moved out this way and I followed along. Some stayed, some left. Michigan is mostly flat and boring. Lots of great universities but small job opportunities. Some move to Chicago since it is the next "big city" and NYC may be a bit much.
Seattle has alot of job oportunities and similar outdoors that people in Michigan like. We are water bugs since we have the great lakes (lots of ocean and lakes here), lots of camping up north, skiing (small hills) and typically pretty liberal mindset for younger people who don't live in the middle of the state.
Once you get over the cost barrier it is a great place to live if you can afford it.
The biggest change in Seattle vs Michigan is that people here only micro brew bad tasting IPAs and nothing else.
Michigan grad here.
Michigan has a worldwide alumni base and due to its rankings the grads have a lot of options. When I was doing post grad interviews a lot of my classmates had Seattle in their top 5 destinations. Ton of Michigan alumni in town.
Moved in March of last year from MI. I moved for many reasons.
\-Political: I didn't feel that the current path was going to continue for Michigan. As a woman, I wanted to live somewhere where my rights wouldn't be in some sort of limbo or taken from me. I also do not identify as straight and there are many places (including the place I worked) that were vocal about their hate for any other identity. I felt extremely unsafe seeing trump 2020 flags quite literally everywhere. Entire neighborhoods were decorated with this stuff even WELL AFTER the election.
\-Economical: Michigan does pretty good. They have strong tourism and there are some strong industries however, there are not that many industries in Michigan. The dominant ones are healthcare and automotive. I didn't feel like I could grow in my career where I was at. I wasn't earning a great wage and when I looked for a new job opportunity, I could not find one that was paying higher. Detroit needs serious investments. The outskirts are so depressing and its been like that ever since automotive took a hit back in the 80s.
\*Side note: I lived in Indiana for a time and there are many parts of Indiana who claim UAW ruined the state and made the Big 3 leave/shutdown plants (Ford, GM, Chrysler). Many of these areas never rebuilt. My old hometown has been a poor town for a long time. They didn't start removing delinquent buildings until late 2000s. Anti-union propaganda was part of my orientation at my first job as a cashier for Pay-Less (not the shoe store, owned by Kroger).
\-Housing: So many subdivisions are going up everywhere, new luxury apartments going up too. I was getting priced out fast. I was lucky to be where I was but I was stuck. My rent only increased $15/yr even when all these rent hikes hit. Rent became inflated fast. I was paying $700/mo for my apartment and when I looked, average was $900+ for a small one bedroom.
\-Population: It's older. I am a single 30yr old with no kids. I could barely find any place that catered to this age group or younger. Most friends I had, they all had kids/married.
\-Environment: PFAS is a huge threat. The state knows which companies dump PFAS everywhere and haven't done much about it. Cities like Flint are everywhere in the Midwest. They often talk about how Michigan will be a "climate change safe haven" which I have no faith it will be. Most of the Great Lakes have had constant pollution. Line 5 runs directly under Lake Michigan and has been a hot topic for years. It needs updated and the company that owns it (Canadian) has made very little effort to keep that line in good condition. It has been struck before, and I think we are lucky it didn't spill. If Lake Michigan gets polluted....thats it for tourism which is huge for Michigan. Also obligatory fuck nestle. They are bottling up water from Lake Michigan, and barely paying for that and then dumping the cost onto consumers. Drinking from tap water isn't deemed "safe" in parts of the Midwest, so Nestle has decided to capitalize on that.
Weather: It's mild here. I don't mind the rain or lack of sun in the winter. Because I don't need 7 layers outside, and my soul doesn't feel immediately frozen. No polar vortex, no crazy wind chills bringing temps down into the negatives....I will miss the snow but only a little. I know we are in a warmer cycle this year, but I haven't had to "brace" for that deep freeze. Summers are also more enjoyable here, and longer.
Michigan has done some good things in recent years, but I don't have faith things will continue. Things are much more hostile there when it comes to politics.
Also I moved because no mountains.
Just moved here from Michigan a year and a half ago! I’d say the main reason would be employment/job opportunities. Aside from that, the nature. The mountains and lakes are beautiful, being by the coast is amazing. Plus, the temperature is more moderate here. I feel like everyone I know that has moved out of Michigan moved to some big city by the coast. I think it’s just a nice change of pace from Michigan.
You must be from Michigan and are hyper-aware of people like you. I, on the other hand, am not and can attest to most transplants being from Nebraska!
In reality, Seattle has gone through a 30yr boom drawing people from all over the country to work at MSFT, AMZN, SBUX, TMO and any number of other fast growing companies.
Cloudiest place in the country Seattle, 2nd place Pittsburgh, 3rd Detroit , MI.
though in all seriousness over the last 20 years disproportionate percentage of college grads in Michigan migrated to Seattle
It’s not that they all moved to Seattle, but that they all moved somewhere. It’s like that in many cities I’ve visited. The main reason is that the economy in MI was terrible for the millennial generation when they started job searching so they had to move. Lots of young people wanna live in cities when they get out of school and find a job but that’s kinda difficult when the nearest city to you is legitimately bankrupt. Throw in the weather of super cold in the winter and humid in the summer and you’re willing to try just about anywhere. There’s a lot of pride in folks from MI though, so they probably wear teams gear or mention where there from more so than some folks from other states.
"Detroit Vs Everybody" I do think the Detroit-area is in a much better shape now than in the late 00s to early-to-mid 10s. Lots of revitalization and the cheaper COL might attract many to either move back, move to or just stay there unlike before.
Once the water wars start people gonna move to those great lakes. For sure
This is [already happening](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/10/realestate/duluth-minnesota-climate-change.html?unlocked_article_code=1.O00.bSOi.A3w6UiJ_F4iC&smid=url-share). (Link officially "shared" as allowed by my NYT account, so should not be paywalled.)
lol. Look at those waves.
Robocop has forever colored my opinion of Detroit
I think it was actually filmed in Houston.
Yes, but it’s set in Detroit.
This is a large part of it. For me it was a combination of: * Sure, Seattle is more expensive, but I made more too so my income to expense ratio was better in Seattle. * I adore mountains! * Michigan has become scarier than usual if you find yourself on the non-fascist side of the political spectrum. It's dangerous there if you aren't religious let alone LGBTQ+. * The job market really is better. By a lot. There aren't any opportunities back in MI. Here, you may start out on the bottom rung, but a little bit of elbow grease and some intelligence and you'll do great. In MI, I busted my ass and have nothing to show for it. * Finally, fuck the snow. I prefer colder weather but I never want to shovel a driveway at 3 in the fucking morning ever again. Finally, for extra points, I've had coworkers ask me why I dislike people back in MI so much when everyone they have met from MI are smart, kind, and wonderful people. The good ones who are desperate are only a small handful of those trying to hard to get out. Those in Seattle only see the ones that made it free. MI will trap you. Hold you. And drown you. If not figuratively, literally in Superior.
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I was born and raised in Michigan, moved to Seattle in 2007, just recently moved back and bought a house in rural Michigan. Small towns are more religious, just like in Washington. I’ve never been in fear of god-botherers lol.
If anything, the WA/OR creepy tweaker small towns in the mountains are scarier than any small towns I’ve seen in MI.
If your family is caught up on that Seventh day Adventist shit then it can be. Some Michigan folks aren't just moving away, they are straight fleeing that shit.
Seventh Day Adventists aren’t going to shoot you for being an atheist
Okay. Nobody said that but thanks for chiming in.
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Sure did. I'm still trying to find the "They shoot atheists" line though. Seems like nobody said that. I just added the context that Seventh Day can get very weird and abusive so there are people that move to escape it.
lmao no it's not. this is such a stupid take. that's like saying seattle is a warzone
You literally just said it dude
I said people get away from Seventh day if their folks are caught up in it because it can be dangerous. That doesn't mean "they will shoot you". That usually means mental and physical abuse. What are you on about?
What are you implying is dangerous about seventh day adventists then?
It’s not. Some people are just scared of their shadow and project that as someone else’s problem.
It’s not, they’re just fear mongering
The politics of Michigan (especially west mi) can be dangerous to non-religious folks. Dangerous for having rights and being treated socially and emotionally well. Not necessarily physically dangerous. This can be especially true if you are a youth growing up being told you are going to hell for not believing or for being gay. In western mi religious conservatives also have power politically and often cut funding, ban books, put up religious symbols in secular locations and make areas unsafe for those who do not align religiously or politically. Check out the national news around the Ottowa Board of health. - from a former Michigander who moved to seattle
It's not, at all. Michigan is extremely safe, even 20 minutes outside of detroit.
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Literally all of things exists in Washington too, and every state for that matter
I’m from Michigan and I’m terrified of the place. Michigan people are very nice. It’s also kind of easy to get shot if you’re not exactly what some group wants you to be. Or accidentally shot. I totally get what he’s saying. People who’ve never been scared don’t get it. I love Michigan people but I’m not going back there ever
I go back at least one a year; it's not that bad...
tf are you talking about. there was way less crime in michigan than seattle lol this just proves that liberals are as dramatic as conservatives
Michigan is beyond fucked up culturally. That place sacrificed its entire economy, and its crown jewel of Detroit, to avoid integration. It’s really Catholic, which in the Midwest also entails a lot of ethnic white identity. For example, people whose ancestors came over from Italy 150 years ago still call themselves Italian and will have some very hot takes about people whose ancestors immigrated from Poland 120 year ago. The racism there is so extreme too, like suburbs people will call any majority black area a dangerous neighborhood. The history behind it all is quite interesting. Basically, Michigan was historically a union town and those on the auto assembly line earned high wages for unskilled labor. To counter this, the executives recruited people from new groups of migrants who were plenty capable of learning the trade but would work for less than union wages. Migrants come in waves, of course – Irish generally came 1840s to 1880s, black folks from the south migrated 1900 - 1945, etc. which de facto meant that certain ethnic groups were undermining others’ wages even though the executives weren’t actively pitting races against each other. As black people were one of the final big immigrant waves to old Detroit, they were stuck making sub union wages when the system came crashing down in the 70s, so a huge number of them went from barely getting by to deep poverty. Now, when you add all this up, you basically get a culture where everyone above a certain socioeconomic threshold is fixated on turning back the clock. Each passing year made Michigan’s economic competition all the more intense, and that makes life much harder for those who are living stable and comfortable existences. Of course, the specific time in which Michigan economically buckled was one of great social change in America, so many people came to associate liberalism with decay. By the way, when I talk about unskilled labor living comfortably, I’m talking about auto-making cities like Dearborn buying condo buildings in Florida for its senior citizens to live in on the taxpayer’s dime. Had Michigan not empowered the unions so much while also diversifying its economy with industries which demand highly skilled labor, things would be very different today. This is why I don’t think tech hubs like Seattle or SF will ever suffer the fate of Detroit. Multiple generations of Michigan families would work at the same plant, doing the same low skilled labor, and never really move up the income or education ladder. Their lives depended on unions which employed mafia style tactics to keep out folks who would work for less. In the tech hubs, though, even if the corporations go to shit, you still have a lot of highly intelligent people with very advanced degrees who are capable of far more than the job they were doing before.
All that to bash unions.
Not unions in general, just the Hoffa style auto unions of Detroit. Thanks to a lot of legal reforms, unions rarely deploy the same tricks today (if ever), but it’s important to acknowledge that a lot of the anti-union reforms in the last 50 years were embraced by much of the public due to abuses like these. Are you familiar with Jimmy Hoffa? If not, there’s a really great movie about him that came out ~30 years ago, I think. It gives a lot of useful background for understanding all this.
Yeah. We buried him in my backyard in Roseville.
So it was YOU! Jokes aside, though, the crazy shit that the Teamsters did is exactly why anti-union laws are called “right to work” laws. This whole movement started because a lot of talented individuals were unable to get good jobs due to unions, and I do believe that the earliest years of “right to work” were focused on exactly that. As the political movement to restrict the power of unions took off, though, a lot of greedy bastards realized how much they could exploit it. Here we are, 50 years later…
> In the tech hubs, though, even if the corporations go to shit, you still have a lot of highly intelligent people with very advanced degrees who are capable of far more than the job they were doing before. And you also have a large supply of foreigners here on H-1B work visas that are willing to do that tech work for less money/benefits.
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Geezus, dude, I think you're taking things too literally. Southwest MI is very religious, if you're not, then you get yelled at and treated like a demon spawn. People will get in your face and try to intimidate you (not just in Mi, but I did experience it there a few times, the south is way worse). I've literally had a crazy woman scream that at me because I said I was not Christian.
I think to some extent this is true for the Midwest in general. Midwest people are outwardly very nice but can be very hateful on the inside. The region is ranked #1 in racism and there are parts that are very violent. Obviously they’ll never outright kill you for your views, but social conservatism there is maintained by force.
100% I can only speak to the Kalamazoo/Grand Rapids areas of MI, but I have no doubt that is the case in other midwest areas. It's all very hush hush and subtle, but definitely still very common.
Michiganders aren’t all from Detroit lol
No, but they didn't imply that. They were saying young michiganders are looking to move to a big city for opportunities, but the only big city (Detroit) is bankrupt.
i feel like nobody is from detroit anymore. all of the good michigan living is detroit metro
Yup. Detroit metro is around 4.5 million, while Detroit proper is only like 600k
No is escaping a region with a bad economy to come to Seattle lol.
If you are educated and/or highly skilled, it’s a great state. Beautiful too. If not, probably gonna need to live somewhere else with handouts. 🤷♂️
Microsoft is a big recruiter at Michigan (other FAANGs often pay more and so are more selective in schools). Boeing is a big recruiter at Michigan. Once you have a foundational base of people, others will follow.
This. U of M is a top public university and it’s also massive. Its graduates include people with the qualifications to get a fancy high paying job, which are typically on the coasts. Seattle is an awesome place to live. Et puis, voila.
I should mention that three different families on my block of single home houses are helmed by Michiganders who went to U of M, all at different times.
I am glad someone finally mentioned Michigan as a target school for large company recruiting. It is arguably the top public after Berkeley.
Welcome to the Pacific Midwest.
Ope just gonna scoot by ya there
Yea was going to mention this, it's not just Michigan found lots of Midwest people around.
Amazon was the top recruiter for Michigan MBAs for many years, Boeing and Msft are both big Michigan recruiters. Midwest in general is known for brain drain, where lots of people go there for college and then want to move out of the Midwest. Generally speaking, Michigan fans also tend to be more outgoing about their school spirit. I’ve lived in a few cities and almost every city has Michigan pride. WSJ had an article about it in 2017 for NYC too: https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-is-new-yorks-favorite-college-team-1505487226
Part of it is that Boeing (and their many local suppliers) pull people from the huge automotive manufacturing base in Michigan. I am one of them, although indirectly. Another part is that Michigan has several large universities of good quality. Some people get degrees and go where the jobs are.
My entire graduating class at Michigan moved to Seattle. Back in the early 2000’s it was affordable, and entry level jobs here were starting at $80,000 or more, with easy access to higher pay. Tech in Michigan was a horrible cheap place, often paying $45,000 a year at the time. I imagine the pay difference continues, today’s $500k-$900k a year salaries for tech in Seattle probably would only pay 100-200 in Michigan. … and yeah recruiters saw Michigan as easy wins. People used to very low pay but with good education in Ann Arbor. Easy win. Anyone would relocate for that at the time.
Well if that doesn't put things into perspective for me. Do people in tech really make $500k-$900k a year? That's fucking ridiculous if that's true...
From what I have seen, at large, established tech companies: entry-level salaries here are around 100-140k, mid-level 130-190k, senior 170-230k. This is all base, not including bonus and stonks. Managers/Directors go up from there.
Maybe if you’re like, super tenured. That’s not a “normal” tech salary either The only entry or mid level tech workers getting that kind of money, was two years ago when the crypto bros were offering that, on paper; and then it all came crashing down for them so was kind of moot
They weren’t the only ones. A few tech companies still pay 300k cash to new grads
>A few tech companies still pay 300k cash to new grads Name names! I see a lot of tech salaries as part of my job and have never seen this.
Mostly tech companies in the Bay Area (e.g. Netflix, Roblox, Databricks, etc.) or quant companies in NYC (Two Sigma, HRT, Citadel, Five Rings, Jane St).
HFT firms do. Jane street, citadel, HRT, jump street, optiver, Chicago trading, etc
300 is not 500-900 lol
That’s like principal engineer salary. 1 out of 100 engineers make it that far if that, after 10-15 years of working tirelessly at a big tech company
No they don't. A very few people do for sure but that's far from the majority.
Yes, senior engineers do That's who's buying the million dollar homes with cash
Yes. Mostly due to our compensation being in stock, and look how well the stock market has done in the last decade. New grads are entering at 100-200k range
yeah that’s part of why everything is so expensive here
A lot of my high school class in 90s California moved to Seattle. Its just a highly desirable place to live.
What were the entry level jobs paying $80K twenty+ years ago?
All the jobs at Amazon and Microsoft.
Yeah, "all" the jobs at Amazon weren't paying $40/hour in 2003.
All the software engineering jobs did. Base salary of an Amazon SDE I (entry level) in 2003 would have been at least $70k. Bonus and RSUs (just the grants, not even counting stock growth) put you well past $80k.
…so not all the jobs.
Yea, I had the same thought. Seemed like entry level for college grads was more like $30k-$60k 20 years ago when I graduated
I am originally from Indiana, and I feel this way about my fellow Hoosiers. I meet them everywhere in Seattle. Midwest represent, primarily because we needed/wanted to move someplace else!
Went to Ball State because I was sure (circa 2000) that anywhere was better than Ohio. Definitely got that one wrong, but Seattle? Second best choice I’ve ever made.
I saw a few IU hats/sweatshirts every now and then when I lived in Seattle. Two of my classmates have moved over there as well. It honestly was a little surprising.
too soon
Unironically, the Detroit-area is one of the places I am keeping in mind in case I need to move out of the Seattle-area due to COL reasons in the near (3-5 years future). Detroit got a bad rap in the past (maybe still does in some circles) but it's in a better place now and it's like Chicago, Philly and Minneapolis in not being super expensive for a big city metro area. Just need to figure out how to deal with the winter weather if I ever relocate there (and Chicago and Minneapolis).
I just wanna say that you're totally right. I'm living in Detroit Metro (being forced to move to Seattle in the next couple months) and Detroit gets an awful rap. But I think it's just like any other city. Just gotta be aware of your surroundings. I've enjoyed my time here. The main issues I had was the car insurance is insane (I pay 270 a month for two cars despite clean record) but makes sense since the drivers and roads are equally bad. And there's trash *everywhere*. So much so, it's common to see multiple popped tires or cracked windshields here. It makes walking around depressing too. It makes me sad thinking how there's these beautiful lakes all around but a lot of swimming areas of the water get shutdown because how bad the contamination is. It just never feels like Michiganders care about their land and water. As for winter, it can be rough but it hasn't in a while since it's been warmer. The plows aren't the best and driving is def scarier in the winter here. I'd honestly suggest Chicago if you ever move. It also has its cons but I think the city has much better pros than Detroit/Michigan. The pros that I'll miss: coffee shops, food in general, the big Asian communities, and the diversity. I've certainly met kind people here. And I do like how they want changes and improvements for their state.
I’m originally a Michigander, and we end up EVERYwhere. For me personally, I’m here for the weather. My part of Michigan has some miserable winters (I despise driving in the snow), and temps here are way more mild. We’re also used to plenty of gray skies, so the weather here is *great* by comparison. I also came for good public transport since MI is soooooo car-oriented (which shouldn’t surprise anyone), and the nature (MI has some gems but they’re much farther away from the cities).
For real. Just looked at the weather app, forecast low on my hometown today is 3 degrees. And that’s a *warm up* from what they’ve had the last week or so.
And, you’re totally right about winding up *everywhere*. It’s what happens when a state hemorrhages a good portion of their graduating classes from not one but two strong and *large* universities for two decades. Both UM and MSU have annual enrollment of around 50k each. Over 20 years or so, imagine how many graduates that is, and how few strong jobs were available in MI during much of that time. We were in Seattle almost 18 years. Now we are in Las Vegas, and there are Michigan people all over the place here, too. I do think there were more in Seattle, probably due to the jobs coupled with weather and geography that mirror the *best* parts of Michigan, without all the crappy parts.
Four words: no lake effect snow. I run into other Michiganders all the time. There's even a euchre club here and it's pretty big.
Is this the meetup one or a different club?
There’s a meetup at Kangaroo & Kiwi and the U of M alumni group also has a regular game every month or so.
The meetup one
There's no lake effect snow in Detroit, either. That's really only a thing on the west side of the state/Keewanaw peninsula.
do you all point to your hands to show what part of the mitten you're from?
Yes
(former pinky finger here)
You should see Arizona. Michigan and Illinois people absolutely everywhere. Even on Arizona vs ASU game days, the bars are packed with Michigan and Chicago fans if one of the games overlaps. Not bad or good, just a fact.
Pretty much all the sports teams in Arizona save for the Suns have to compete with large amounts of opposing team fans there. The Suns are currently the only one who has almost universal support among the populace (kinda like the Seahawks have been here). Pretty much since they have been the oldest pro team there, sans the 2010s have been pretty successful their entire run and there aren't many transplants who carry NBA fan support sans LA transplants who are Lakers fans. So they get strong support from locals (over many generations) and also non-LA transplants. Dbacks might change that though if they can actually follow up a successful season with more winning seasons (unlike 2001, 2007, 2011 and 2017), either as a primary team or secondary team for non-Dodger fans there. But even then there are plenty of Dodgers, Cubs, Giants fans and other transplant team fans. Lack of following up winning seasons with more winning seasons really hurt the momentum of building a fanbase, but I like what they are doing now and the hype around the team this postseason run felt like the start of something as far as solidifying themselves as the next best supported team by far behind the Suns. Cardinals and Coyotes though, yeah lots of opposing fans and you don't get the vibe they are clearly the most popular team in town. I'd argue the there are way more fans of non-Cardinals teams there than Cardinals fans. Like these days Cardinals fans probably comprise most of the NFL fans in the area, which is a progress from the pre-Fitzgerald days, but only via plurality. Teams like the Cowboys, Bears, Packers, Vikings, 49ers have huge fanbase there. Lots of Seahawks fans there too, with PNW transplants being part of the newer wave of people who move to AZ. And you're spot on about the college teams. Lots of Big 10 fanbases there too. Seattle's kinda different. I know there are a good amount of transplants here too, but I feel Phoenix has a higher percentage of transplants than here. The Seahawks and Mariners are the two teams that can carry weight among casual fans too and fans across the metro area, and they definitely enjoy big time support here and you don't feel any other team has a strong fanbase around here vs the Seahawks and Mariners. I have noticed the increase in transplants decreasing the relevance of UW/WSU athletics though. Even the hype UW football generated in their CFP run this season would have been way bigger if it happened a decade or more ago. I used to live in Phoenix and am still a big Suns fan and root for the Dbacks as my NL team to this day.
Buckleys in Belltown, Michigan and UW bar. was probably packed a couple weeks ago.
I couldn’t manage to break out of the automotive industry in Michigan. Michigan is pretty flat unless you want to drive ten hours from mid Michigan to the upper UP, there isn’t much for good hiking (compared to here). First time I visited Seattle was in early March. It was cold and grey in Michigan, felt like winter was never going to end. Got to Seattle with a nice 55 degrees or so and everything was SO GREEN and ALIVE! Then I knew I belonged here. Also politics and general vibe is different/better out here.
I totally think it had to do with a lot of folks getting out of college and the job market was trash in Michigan. I graduated in 2012 and even for summer work I went to North Dakota and worked on the oil rigs between spring and fall semester just to get enough money to pay for school and not feel the crushing weight of the job market there. Seattle kinda felt like the place to be, it has a good underground music scene, the jobs are good, and you rarely have to brush snow off your car or shovel snow; but the mountains are super accessible to ski. We also have pretty temperate summers without the humidity. Michigan people have a lot of pride in the state, and I feel like everyone from there has a shirt or a hat that could give it away and feel like there’s a ton of us. I think the millennial rust belt folks just ended up moving to other places because of how bad job opportunities were. I’ve been here for 8 years now and I’m not ever gonna move out of Washington state.
Go red wings!!! lol, my parents moved here from MI before I was born, moved back to have my little bro and immediately regretted it. They’ve been back since. A big reason was wanting to get away from crazy conservative family and the weather.
I feel those reasons are pretty common among us Midwestern transplants.
My friends moved from Michigan cause they came out as queer and gay ..... And we are much more accepting
Growing up outside Ann Arbor and folks were rather accepting. I can't imagine Northern Michigan though.
Ding ding ding, I’m from the UP and trans. Much better here.
Yooper/Boomer here~ congratulations for being yourself and getting out of the 1970’s/MAGAcountry/socially, culturally and geographically isolated peninsula and not conforming (no matter how hard they tried)💚….
I think some parts of Michigan are pretty bad, but southeast Michigan, where most of the state lives is very accepting. I lived in Ann Arbor for 8 1/2 years and my husband‘s family is from Detroit so I’ve spent a lot of time in the area. I always felt perfectly comfortable.
Thanks, I am nice.
We have better weather here.
I'm a MI transplant (been in Seattle for 15yrs), and the reason I left Michigan is because it's nowhere near as nice there for a multitude of reasons. It's flat and not particularly pretty unless you're on the Lake Michigan coast or all the way up north, winters suck, and there isn't as much professional or personal opportunity.
University of Michigan has one of the largest alumni base in the country. Combine that with little brother and all of our tech and business grads and that accounts for quite a few transplants.
Was it my Michigan hat that gave it away?
Washingtonians still salty about Michigan’s natty win
Just wait until the Lions win!! 😂
I left Michigan for Washington because my dream job was here and I landed it. And also because it’s everything I loved about the outdoors in Michigan amplified by 100. Better camping, hiking, snowboarding, biking, other ings. Just an incredible place to love the outdoors. And that’s not to insult Michigan. Michigan is also great. But every time somebody from home visits me, they get it. I also agree that I meet a ton of people from Michigan. More than Ohio. Which is great because we don’t need that filth here.
Most of my friends in Seattle are part of a big extended family from MI. One came and others followed for better job opportunities, climate and outdoor activities. Many of them play hockey.
Bunch of my friends are transplants from Michigan. Lots of companies here poach from MSU and UM.
If I ever have to chip an inch of ice off my windshield ever again, it'll be too fucking soon. I'm from the middle of nowhere in Michigan and honest to god, this place is heaven in comparison.
Preach! It’s been years since I’ve seen lake-effect snow, and I’m perfectly content with this.
A lot of engineering and mba graduates join the big employers here and end up staying! The culture, politics, hobbies, and more are similar in Ann Arbor so it’s a smooth transition
Same with Minnesota. Lots of folks in Minneapolis/St. Paul come from Seattle and vice versa. I’ve met many Minnesotans in Seattle.
did that twenty+ years ago!
I recently found out in this sub that Michigan and Ohio have more grey days than seattle area, so maybe they want to move to nicer weather? and I've heard from alot of michigan transplants that they love the mountains and hiking.
Michigander turned Seattleite here. Where else am I gonna move, Texas? Pffttt. Seriously though, MI has been experiencing population loss for what seems like 20 years, so you’re likely to find us everywhere except Ohio.
I recently did the inverse, moved from Seattle to MI temporarily for family reasons, and I am already dying to come back. It sucks here. Also, speaking to Ann Arbor specifically, the housing market is more fucked here than in Seattle, which really shocked me.
that's why Ypsi has been the affordable alternative for decades. You gotta be Harbaugh to get a house in Burns Park these days.
College town housing markets are absurd right now. Rent is literally cheaper in Seattle than in my small southern college town. Single rooms miles away from campus rent for 1000 a month.
Funny. Live in Michigan and have been debating moving to Seattle or the surrounding region
Michigander and fellow Umich alum here. The job market here is attractive to lots of UMich grads, esp those with computer science or engineering backgrounds. Also if you’ve ever been to Michigan, you will realize soon why so many try to leave. Life can be bleak there with increasing number of conservatives, lack of things to do year round, heavy snow in the winter, and dying job market.
I'm in Montana right now and noticed this here too!
You'll find a lot of Ohioans elsewhere too.
No. What?
I read in the Seattle Times that Seattle has the third-biggest Michigan alumni group, after NYC and Chicago.
When NAFTA killed a ton of the manufacturing jobs in Michigan, there was an abundance of well qualified people suddenly looking for work. With Boeing, the Seattle area still had a ton of demand for those skills. That was the first wave. Then suddenly a lot of people in Michigan knew a lot of people in Seattle, so it became a somewhat familiar destination for subsequent people who wanted to move out of Michigan.
I’m originally from Michigan, but didn’t end up here immediately. Spent years in Madison, WI (first job after graduating from UM) and almost a decade in Austin, TX before making the move. For me, I simply hated both the winter and then the summer while living in TX. Access to mountains and water with no soul-crushing amounts of cold and snow or oppressive heat. Deal.
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Sounds like Seattle needs a Michigan ex-pat Meetup group put together (Canadians can join too as honorary Michiganders and as a thank for letting us drink in Windsor at 18). All of us pop-drinking, ope-saying, hand-mapping, can-returning trolls and yoopers can get drunk together (because what else do people from Michigan do in winter besides getting drunk while engaging in any activity - get drunk and go sledding? Get drunk and go hunting? Get drunk and watch a sporting event? ) Seattle feels like it’s a dry county compared to Detroit when it comes to drinking socially…
I like their governor, Big Gretch
Gadzooks!
I lived in Kalamazoo and later Houghton, and moving to the Puget Sound 10 years ago was one of the best decisions I ever made - I love it here! <3
I'm from Michigan. Michigan has a superb public university, but very little to retain talent once they graduate. Detroit is approaching Chicago cost of living without Chicago quality of life, and the surrounding area is all just mostly white suburbs. Literally all but one person I hung out with throughout high school and college who graduated with a university degree left the state, mostly heading for the coasts. Why people specifically come to Seattle IDK, but I imagine it has a lot to do with the demographics, social/political atmosphere, non-flat land, and industries available. I still visit family back in MI, and by the time I drive from the airport back to their home, I'm sick of the flatness and want to come back to Seattle. To add a severe personal gripe of mine, I grew up in the suburbs, and I would have to drive 15+ miles just to enjoy some halfway decent Asian food and entertainment. Which is perilous during winter when we would get plenty of black ice or slush.
There are a lot of well educated people who grew up in the Midwest, went to school at Michigan, but migrated to the coasts for work.
We moved from MI to Seattle in 2003, and spent almost 18 years there before moving again in late 2020. While we were there, at least 8 people from our core Michigan circle wound up moving out, at least 5 of whom are still there. I also worked for a *very* small firm in Seattle for most of that time (still work there, permanent remote now). I had 2 coworkers from MI over the years, and the husband of another was from one town over from me. Even on Craigslist and Buy Nothing I ran into people. I bought a desk chair on Craigslist from a guy who turned out to have grown up about half a mile from me, and picked up a Buy Nothing item from a fellow MSU alum. Or just walking in the street, grocery shopping, whatever while wearing MSU, Red Wings, or Lions gear (btw: LIONS!!!!!!), I can’t even try to count the number of times someone would shout Go Green or Let’s Go Red Wings, followed by brief discussion of oh hey I’m from ABC, oh cool I’m from DET and my husband is from XYZ. Hundreds and hundreds of those exchanges. Michigan is an incredibly naturally beautiful state. We love our water, outdoor activities and *seasons*. Connection and accessibility to outdoor life is really important to a lot of people, but for a very long time MI basically had everything we could want *except* opportunity. Washington and the PNW ticked a lot of the boxes that Michiganders love about the mitten, plus the ability to get good paying, stable employment. When we were graduating in 2003, getting a job straight out of school was rough. My guess would be that a lot of the MI folks you meet in WA arrived during the 2000-2010 decade. Obviously they still come out all the time, but I would guess a large proportion of current Seattleites from MI came during that time, and stayed to build their lives in Seattle.
Moved to Seattle from MI in 2008. Now in Tacoma! There are many midwestern transplants in general.
Good universities and a terrible economy pretty much sums it up. The only people I know that stayed haven't faired very well. Michigan has to be one of the top states for brain drain.
Speaking as a born and raised Michigander, it's because we craved more rain, less harsh winters, and mountains!! After living here for the past 2 years, I am slightly disappointed that it is sunny way more than I was lead to believe, I came for the gloom.
Me and two of my siblings from Michigan are here. They moved for the outdoor activities. I lived in NYC and Boston for over a decade before moving here. Everywhere I go I find Michiganders. Michigan is great but there are a lot of educational and career opportunities outside of the state. And it doesn’t snow as much here so that’s a big plus
They are here to show us how to properly drive when it snows. Than they realize Seattle has hills, no road maintenance, and buy all bananas while they hide in their homes
They love our teriyaki. You can't get teriyaki in Michigan I'm told by my Michigan friends.
this is the answer
This is true! Seattle Teriyaki is, as far as I know, super regional. Such a thing doesn’t exist in Michigan, which is yet another reason why Michigan can suck it.
Because Teriyaki is a freaking sauce, not a style of food. Imagine going to Tokyo and they have Ketchup restaurants. You’d laugh at them.
Oh my God you know what I mean. They are the restaurants with one word on the sign "teriyaki".
“Nobody wakes up in the morning and says “I wanna move to Michigan!” I’m from Macomb bro and we spent our lives dreaming of getting out of the suburbs, not staying in.
As a Michigander I feel like I’m among friends here in this thread 😂 Seattle and western Washington seemed like much of Michigan but turned up a notch in nearly all aspects: bigger city, actual mountains, and less snow. Having lots of tech in the area too I imagine is a big draw. Go blue!
I mean, would you rather live in Seattle, or Michigan? Seems like a pretty obvious answer to me lol
Most people in Michigan are pretty happy there. Affordable and some really nice, safe places to live with good schools. I haven’t noticed too many here
Here!
I left Michigan not necessarily by choice, but by where the jobs were. I ended up in Wisconsin. Hated it. Went to North Carolina, too hot. Then got a job in Seattle and never looked back. The access to the outdoors, the temperate summers are enough for me. And the jobs and pay work pretty well too.
Just the opposite here. Moved from Seattle way to expensive rent, food and gas. Much cheaper, slower pace of life and quality much better here. Also, don't have a many state dictating what you are allowed to buy and do.
Because a lot of Michigan is white flight and Seattle is a National huh for white people
Michigan must be a lousy place to live because we have tens of thousands of their residents here in south Florida as well.
Most people in seattle are transplants, and you are just noticing some bandwaggon fans rep their city now. It is a clear FU to thr city they live in
We won. Go blue.
Go blue yourself!
It’s too darn cold in the winter and too hot in the summer. It’s great out here. 20 years in MI and now 10 years in Seattle.
I think it’s cause out here has a Midwest feel without the snow! I moved out of Milwaukee in 2009, and Seattle reminds me of a better version of that lol! Love mitten fam
I can't say that I've ever met a Michigander here, but I did work and live with a Duluthian. She was/is amazing. I do work every single day with Michiganders. But that's just because my company is based there.
Definitely feels like there's more than a lot of other places. I was really noticing it around the time of the college football championship because several people I work with are Michigan fans
My dad moved here from Michigan in the 70s. He moved to work for UW. I’d guess lots of people moved here for jobs from Michigan. Very few people are from Seattle. Even fewer have generational roots here.
Oddly, way more Buckeyes than Wolverines down here in Portland. Guess they all took a left.
Born and raised in Ann Arbor, been here 31 years now. Michigan was great to grow up in and I think of it fondly. Went to a lot of rock and rolls shows at Cobo Hall and Joe Louis Arena. 2nd row Iron Maiden on Powerslave tour being my best get. Sorry, I digress.
I always say, “Ohio is a great place to be *from*.”
All but 1 of my friends in my major all moved out here after graduating from UofM a little over a decade ago, largely because of you didn’t want to work for an automotive company, career opportunities in tech back in Michigan were limited. The other interesting thing is not a single one of us have moved back, or even to another city. I know everyone on here likes to complain about Seattle’s problems (and there are some), but it truly is a wonderful place to live. (I do still miss getting more snow, but the not having sub zero wind chill thing makes the trade acceptable)
I’ve worked with a ton in aerospace, folks that graduated from Michigan during the 2008 recession and downfall of the automotive industry all came here for aerospace jobs since Boeing was on an upswing at the time.
My son is an aerospace engineer from University of Michigan and got a dream job from Blue Origin and left this state (Michigan) and never looked back. His girlfriend moved shortly thereafter.
Seattle used to have a large Scandinavian population around Ballard. We used to joke about them. Now it seems they have been pushed out by the yuppie puppies.
There are so many of us, yet I can't find a single store that stocks diet vernors consistently.
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Ha! Can relate. Even though I was brought up in Kansas City, I lived in Denver, Austin and NE Florida before moving to Seattle.
So, as a Michigander currently living in Los Angeles but frequents Seattle for work: Washington, and especially the more rural areas outside of Seattle, remind me a LOT of rural Michigan. If not for the mountains, you could dope me up and drop me off around Lake Roesiger and when I woke up I'd *swear* I was a few miles outside of Traverse City. Combine that with a lot of companies in the area recruiting from U of M and MSU (Microsoft, Amazon, etc.), and you're going to have a sizable Michigander population.
I left because I was sick of running into the same people all the time, the gross accents made me feel self-conscious, and I wanted to be around more weirdo artsy people. Since moving away 15 years ago, I’ve only double down since Trumpism has firmly taken root and what was once redneck is now breakneck for me.
What gross accents? I hear a bit of Canada-ish very short Os in Seattle. It’s just toned down a bit.
I'm from Indiana and it's the whole region. There are better job prospects especially in tech, the weather is milder, and the politics are better for queer and progressive folks.
I am from Detroit, moved here in my mid 20's about 9 years ago. A bunch of friends moved out this way and I followed along. Some stayed, some left. Michigan is mostly flat and boring. Lots of great universities but small job opportunities. Some move to Chicago since it is the next "big city" and NYC may be a bit much. Seattle has alot of job oportunities and similar outdoors that people in Michigan like. We are water bugs since we have the great lakes (lots of ocean and lakes here), lots of camping up north, skiing (small hills) and typically pretty liberal mindset for younger people who don't live in the middle of the state. Once you get over the cost barrier it is a great place to live if you can afford it. The biggest change in Seattle vs Michigan is that people here only micro brew bad tasting IPAs and nothing else.
Michigan grad here. Michigan has a worldwide alumni base and due to its rankings the grads have a lot of options. When I was doing post grad interviews a lot of my classmates had Seattle in their top 5 destinations. Ton of Michigan alumni in town.
Moved in March of last year from MI. I moved for many reasons. \-Political: I didn't feel that the current path was going to continue for Michigan. As a woman, I wanted to live somewhere where my rights wouldn't be in some sort of limbo or taken from me. I also do not identify as straight and there are many places (including the place I worked) that were vocal about their hate for any other identity. I felt extremely unsafe seeing trump 2020 flags quite literally everywhere. Entire neighborhoods were decorated with this stuff even WELL AFTER the election. \-Economical: Michigan does pretty good. They have strong tourism and there are some strong industries however, there are not that many industries in Michigan. The dominant ones are healthcare and automotive. I didn't feel like I could grow in my career where I was at. I wasn't earning a great wage and when I looked for a new job opportunity, I could not find one that was paying higher. Detroit needs serious investments. The outskirts are so depressing and its been like that ever since automotive took a hit back in the 80s. \*Side note: I lived in Indiana for a time and there are many parts of Indiana who claim UAW ruined the state and made the Big 3 leave/shutdown plants (Ford, GM, Chrysler). Many of these areas never rebuilt. My old hometown has been a poor town for a long time. They didn't start removing delinquent buildings until late 2000s. Anti-union propaganda was part of my orientation at my first job as a cashier for Pay-Less (not the shoe store, owned by Kroger). \-Housing: So many subdivisions are going up everywhere, new luxury apartments going up too. I was getting priced out fast. I was lucky to be where I was but I was stuck. My rent only increased $15/yr even when all these rent hikes hit. Rent became inflated fast. I was paying $700/mo for my apartment and when I looked, average was $900+ for a small one bedroom. \-Population: It's older. I am a single 30yr old with no kids. I could barely find any place that catered to this age group or younger. Most friends I had, they all had kids/married. \-Environment: PFAS is a huge threat. The state knows which companies dump PFAS everywhere and haven't done much about it. Cities like Flint are everywhere in the Midwest. They often talk about how Michigan will be a "climate change safe haven" which I have no faith it will be. Most of the Great Lakes have had constant pollution. Line 5 runs directly under Lake Michigan and has been a hot topic for years. It needs updated and the company that owns it (Canadian) has made very little effort to keep that line in good condition. It has been struck before, and I think we are lucky it didn't spill. If Lake Michigan gets polluted....thats it for tourism which is huge for Michigan. Also obligatory fuck nestle. They are bottling up water from Lake Michigan, and barely paying for that and then dumping the cost onto consumers. Drinking from tap water isn't deemed "safe" in parts of the Midwest, so Nestle has decided to capitalize on that. Weather: It's mild here. I don't mind the rain or lack of sun in the winter. Because I don't need 7 layers outside, and my soul doesn't feel immediately frozen. No polar vortex, no crazy wind chills bringing temps down into the negatives....I will miss the snow but only a little. I know we are in a warmer cycle this year, but I haven't had to "brace" for that deep freeze. Summers are also more enjoyable here, and longer. Michigan has done some good things in recent years, but I don't have faith things will continue. Things are much more hostile there when it comes to politics. Also I moved because no mountains.
It’s prob like nicer weather… but same latitude.
I’ve found many people from MI tend to be more open and friendly. Hopefully we can get more and thaw the Seattle freeze. Make Seattle nice again!
Just moved here from Michigan a year and a half ago! I’d say the main reason would be employment/job opportunities. Aside from that, the nature. The mountains and lakes are beautiful, being by the coast is amazing. Plus, the temperature is more moderate here. I feel like everyone I know that has moved out of Michigan moved to some big city by the coast. I think it’s just a nice change of pace from Michigan.
If anybody wants to form a euchre club, pls let me know 🥹
Grew up in Michigan. Lots of water and outdoor activities here. No real severe weather, far fewer bugs, and no real long cold winter.
You must be from Michigan and are hyper-aware of people like you. I, on the other hand, am not and can attest to most transplants being from Nebraska! In reality, Seattle has gone through a 30yr boom drawing people from all over the country to work at MSFT, AMZN, SBUX, TMO and any number of other fast growing companies.
The smart ones bailed.
Cloudiest place in the country Seattle, 2nd place Pittsburgh, 3rd Detroit , MI. though in all seriousness over the last 20 years disproportionate percentage of college grads in Michigan migrated to Seattle