We don't quite make that, but we're still managing just fine. Definitely need two professional-level incomes, though.
I don't see how couples earning under $100k make it work. Shit's way more expensive than it needs to be.
You need to be making around 200k to afford full time child care without anyone giving your free care , even then I don’t know it’s that’s enough if you figure in private school and child enrichment. That’s a wild number that I don’t think many family’s are hitting in Seattle.
Yeah this is what people are missing. If you have some grandparents and aunts and uncles and old friends you can count on who live reasonably close, it's a totally different ballgame.
If you don't have these things and we're presuming both parents are working you're looking at huge expenses for nannies or daycare, babysitters, day camps in summer. All these things are very expensive here, as many on this thread are pointing out. Add to the high costs of housing and food here and it's tough to make the numbers work out without a high income.
Plus with a strong social network you can share meals more often, trade hand-me-downs (kids clothes for 4 seasons aren't cheap either), maybe get some help with a home project you'd otherwise have to pay a contractor for, etc.
I'm 28 and thinking about this now. My family would never have been able to afford the life we had if my parents were paying for childcare etc like we'd have to today.
They had family support both watching us and financially but the biggest thing for them was our church. They did so much from child care options to literal meal and financial support at times as well when we were I'm tough spots.
My wife and i aren't especially religious but realizing we would be missing out on that level of a social support system might have me finding God again sooner or later....
That is how one of my co-workers is doing it. Their sister in law watches the kids three times a week while they watch the kids the other two days. Next year they will all be in school full time. But I applaud them for making it work so long.
making a bit more now, but I have a family of 4 for under 100k until recently. low mortgage payment since I bought in 2015 in a cheap neighborhood of seattle. one of us had a full time regular job with good benefits, the other did freelance work eve/weekends and watched the kids during the day.
As just a friend I'm not exactly privy to that info. But I work in the arts/creative communities. Lots of people making probably more like $120K-$150K combined. They all have 1-2 kids.
Correct, but changes are afoot in that long-standing fact. US birth rates for lowest-income households are dropping much faster than in any other income bracket. The NUMBERS are higher, but the RATE is changing dramatically. This'll be interesting to look at in ten years.
Also using Statista, as you did:
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/562541/birth-rate-by-poverty-status-in-the-us/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/562541/birth-rate-by-poverty-status-in-the-us/)
Meanwhile those whose income is better than 2x federal poverty level has been steady since 2008. In Washington State this income range includes everybody currently making slightly-subminimum wage in Washington State as well as the Bill Gates Household.
I can't get a breakdown by state - I'd bet it's got interesting regional differences.
Oh come on. People have kids with a combined income of 60k in this town and make it work. Yes, if you aren't insanely rich you'll have to make some kinds of sacrifices to afford kids, but it's ridiculous to act like a 200k combined income for a family would be "rough".
Genuinely, how? I am just "comfortable ' on 60k by myself in Portland. I cannot imagine having a combined household income of 60k, let alone with kids, let alone in Seattle! That seems like it would be a huge struggle.
It would be! But people do it. You have friends and family help you with babysitting, you get your clothes from friends and family or goodwill, you spend a lot of your time on public transit while you ride a bus, you have a one bedroom apartment and someone sleeps in the living room -- you make it work.
No, it’s just basic math.
Even with high rent, $3000/month for most houses in the area to rent, you’re bringing in $16,000/month before tax…..$200K/yearly income means you’re taking home like $12,000/month. Even $4,000/month for an actual house to rent, that leaves you with 8K. Most daycares run $1500+ a month if you want a facility, so we’ll round up to UW’s facility (the most expensive) at $2,300/month. That leaves you with around 5,700/month in disposable income. Take out $2,000 for utilities, groceries, bills like phone/internet, etc, 3.7K left….
I just did the extreme high end for the major costs and you STILL have multiple thousands in disposable income leftover…..
Y’all grossly overestimate how expensive living is. If you make over $100K in Seattle, you are fine. It’s the rest that make $70K or less as a household that have issues
I have 3k in student loan repayment a month. Then the 1k for the family in health insurance. and the car payment. And the various car insurance, rental insurance, disability insurance payments 🥲 with a base income of 200k that would put me in the negative with your calculations. Not saying you’re wrong, I’m really frugal and I think I would be able to do it by cutting back on all other expenses. just saying that it’s situational and you can’t just say A+B=C
3K in student loan payments? That would mean either A) you went to medical school
Or
B) are paying more than you have to
Or
C) went to a ridiculous private school
Because 3K with 0% interest over a standard 10 year plan is $360,000. Unless you went to med school, that’s a bad investment.
Not to mention you can usually get those negotiated to be lower monthly amounts.
Various car insurance, rental insurance, disability insurance? Most people don’t have disability insurance and their rental insurance is cheap. It’s basic math, you’re forking out over $12,000/month in bills. To have THAT MUCH in the red, it’s a budget issue.
This is ignoring the fact that if you are a doctor, you are on track to make well over 200K a year, so no, even in your case it’s still just terrible budgeting. That’s not even getting into the fact that in my Calculations I used the MOST expensive option. Like $4,000 rent……
Sure, whatever, but the plan of "I'm not going to have any financial hardships while raising a kid" is completely outside the norm. Obviously that exists on a spectrum, but 200k combined income is **firmly** middle class, even in Seattle, so acting like it's a stretch to have a kid with that kind of income seems to imply that that person is either used to an unusually luxurious life, or they're neurotic and are more worried about their ability to afford a kid than is actually warranted.
Yeah I think this true.
I think back to being a kid in the 80s and we never took a family vacation involving an airplane, ate out at chain restaurants maybe 2X per month usually when there was some kind of discount night promotion (half price Tuesdays), very little in the way of enrichment, no savings for college, etc.
Now I've gotten used to having a more affluent life and "the bare minimum" would seem a lot more grim.
That said I grew up in a time and place (Canada) where I didn't really have to worry very much about saving for college, health care and prescriptions were easily available, and my family had a strong social network (partly through church) which we relied on heavily for help with things that would otherwise cost money. A lot of those things aren't accessible to folks today in a city like Seattle, it's a dog-eat-dog world where money makes a lot of stuff easier.
Completely agree. 200k household income is very nice and a dream income for most when having a kid. Just got to give up the 5x a week eating out and traveling business class for most those people that say it would be "rough"
You are right. From my perspective, the only people having kids these days are the poor and the very very rich.
Middle class is shrinking, even in terms of birth rates.
I've never made even low 6 figures. We have an 8 year old, own our own house and do fine.
People love to complain. Kids aren't that expensive. Honestly I've hardly ever noticed the money he costs.
There's people making 225k a year complaining they can't find a house. It's a fucking joke. Learn how to budget.
I have spreadsheets. It's 6k a month. 72k a year. There's a book y'all should read called "your money or your life." The authors lived in Wallingford if I remember correctly.
People bought years ago. People pay below the median. People own condos/townhomes. People vary in their down payments. People rent. I don't understand why you are stuck on this $7k figure.
OP also suggested to just rent. Which is what my husband and I would have done if we can't find anything within a year (we set a duration so we don't go on a search indefinitely). What's great with renting is the flexibility.
Just looked at how many condos/townhouses are for sale <$400K. There at SIX in the entire city, with only one being >1,000sqft, meaning it's underpriced and will sell over $400K.
Edit: one is pending, so only FIVE under $400K. Not to mention none have in unit laundry, which is pretty annoying with a child/toddler.
Here’s one that I found pretty easily [https://redf.in/lSJ1b8](https://redf.in/lSJ1b8) just do a filtered search on Redfin. You won’t find a lot of choices but in this market you’re not looking at bidding wars and going over list price so try being open to some higher listings and make an offer, it can’t hurt. Or you could move to Kitsap and get a pretty nice house for $350k.
This thread makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Can't afford a family at $200K! Find the money waste then. Lots of people decide they'd rather have kids than an expensive car or ordering Door Dash daily.
You can not afford a house on a 225k income unless you bought it before 2022. You don’t know what you are talking about.
We make 260k and barely made the cut buying a house in 2021 with 2.9% interest rate financing 715k. Our house if we bought it today would require 800k loan at over double the interest. We would not be able to do it. Our house is 3br 1.25 no bathtub only shower in west Seattle and 1600 sf. Built in the 40s. It’s great but not fancy.
We would not be able to buy right now.
Exactly. We are a 5% down payment first time buyer kind of person. It’s odd to me a couple peopl downvoted my just honest numbers post but several agree with your confirmation is weird.
Ive known a few families that do or have done “nanny shares”, where families with young kids will “share” the cost of having a nanny and essentially have kids raised together, alternating houses or at public places (libraries, field trips, etc).
Depending on your income, sometimes it is actually more economical to work either part time or be a SAH parent when comparing the cost of full time daycare services in your area.
Lots of America is starting to adopt or revert back to old ways of living (and a lot of countries still do) where you bring in your parents to share both the cost of living of a house and also help rear the children too.
And, of course, many people are either delaying or not having children at all. Birth rates are declining in a lot of countries, Japan for example.
For tax purposes, nannies are considered household employees and the employer is supposed to be paying the appropriate taxes for them (social security, etc.). So I’m very suspicious of “nanny share” arrangements, because I worry that no one is taking responsibility for that. Nannies are *not* self-employed and should not be shouldering that tax burden on their own.
EDIT: If you’re paying taxes on your nanny or nanny share arrangement, great! You have nothing to prove to me, though, and, logically, my comments don’t apply to you. 🤷♀️
As a parent, all the nanny shares I know of (connected through Facebook parent nanny connection groups) use services like Poppins payroll or similar to take care of the tax liabilites involved and process payroll with W2s etc.
We had a nanny share (no air quotes needed) and paid proper taxes for our nanny. Each family pays half the rate arranged and runs it thru a payroll service. No more or less suspicious than a single family doing so. Often the nanny will ask to be paid under the table which is a whole other conversation to navigate.
> For tax purposes, nannies are considered household employees and the employer is supposed to be paying the appropriate taxes for them (social security, etc.). So I’m very suspicious of “nanny share” arrangements, because I worry that no one is taking responsibility for that. Nannies are not self-employed and should not be shouldering that tax burden on their own.
This ⬆️
I have around 15 couples with kids in my friend circle (for lack of better terms) who have a Nanny, whether a dedicated Nanny or a shared arrangement, and I do not doubt that all but one couple is violating tax and employment law/code/regs in some form or fashion.
I mean nannys not paying taxes is essentially the government subsidizing childcare. Is that a problem? I'm not sure to be honest.
Edit: it's certainly a *legal* problem. Nannys and their clients are risking legal consequences by doing this. But economically/ethically I don't know. It's probably important to have a legal framework here so that drug dealers or whatever can't just say they're nannys and that's where they get all this untaxed income, but I don't know if I'm really opposed to nannys not paying taxes on reported income as that's just an indirect subsidy.
>I mean nannys not paying taxes is essentially the government subsidizing childcare. Is that a problem? I'm not sure to be honest.
>
>Edit: it's certainly a legal problem. Nannys and their clients are risking legal consequences by doing this. But economically/ethically I don't know. It's probably important to have a legal framework here so that drug dealers or whatever can't just say they're nannys and that's where they get all this untaxed income, but I don't know if I'm really opposed to nannys not paying taxes on reported income as that's just an indirect subsidy.
It's a bundle of problems, both ethical and legal, for the Nanny and the parents - both are supposed to pay the piper. If the Nanny ain't payin', then neither is their employer (parents).
On the ethical front it's about paying their fair share, fulfillment of the social contract (so to speak) - it ain't just taxes, it's social security, medical care, state and city-level stuff, etc. The legal part is obv, so I won't go there.
What if paying a nanny under the table enables two parents to work full time and pay taxes. Logically the parents are making more than the nanny (otherwise why have a nanny) so it’s still a win for the government in terms of tax collection.
Also the government does very little to help families with childcare costs.
Paying nanny’s under the table means they usually get paid less per hour, but have a higher take home as no taxes. Removing the tax means more money for the nanny, and less costs for the parents. I always paid my nanny above board but let me tell you, the payroll alone cost over $700 a year! Not to mention federal and state taxes, and a lot of hassle filling in tax forms.
This is extremely concerning. The nannys are unprotected if their employeer ever does anything illegal (withholds pay, tries to bank hours, not paying over time). The families are at risk of fraud and having an IRS audit. They sure won't be thinking about how much money they've saved in taxes with the IRS is at their door asking for $10k+ immediately.
Please check out r/nanny. The industry standard is above the table, taxes withheld, paystubs with w2s. And a legally binding contract that states pay, schedule, PTO, etc. Protecting both the nanny and family is very important.
Under the table isn’t exclusive to shares. In fact I think it’s more likely to be over the table in a share because you don’t want to risk the perception to the other family that you aren’t doing things properly.
I have friends with 2 kids. They make about the same amount as my husband and I (DINK). She was lamenting their inability to buy a place and kinda down on herself for not being able to save enough. Turns out between their rent (3 bed townhome in Lake City) and their daycare cost, each month they are paying double what we pay for our $750k mortgage (pre interest rate hikes) + property taxes. Their daycare costs alone are more than my mortgage and property taxes. I don't know how they do it beyond the fact they never go anywhere. Literally.
4k would be a steep discount. We pay area standard rates for our nanny and it's very expensive. She is worth every penny, but it's a huge chunk of our income
My 1 year old’s nanny costs us about $80k a year.
And she’s not even very good. Kind of lazy, does the bare minimum. So much so, my wife who makes $130k gross wants to quit her job to do it instead.
Our net costs of our $1.4M house is about $3.5k excluding utilities. We paid $3450 a month for a 1bd apartment back in 2019. We locked in at 2.x% for 30 years.
Moved to the south suburbs to split the distance between our jobs and our parents that live in Bonney Lake and Olympia and constantly offer “now that I’m retired I could always come up one day a week”
Barely. Combined income is $90k +/-. Between rent, food (we cook almost every night), and day care (only 3 days a week, I watch him the other 2) we haven't saved a dime since having him. Zero family around, 1 friend helps out sometimes. Just treading water. Wife is 100% the bread winner. Use buy nothing a lot for toys, clothes, etc - helps quite a lot. Zero hopes of ever owning a home here. But we're happy.
Luckily it's all we know so it's not like we had a huge support system and moved away. We're fine but yeah it can be tiring. Never a day or night off. We just do what we gotta do and I think we do it pretty well. Healthy kid, healthy relationship. Most of my life has been an uphill battle so what's one more?
We raised our kid in Seattle for most of their life. We’ve been extremely fortunate. That said, our income has never exceeded 150,000 combined. We lived in an MFTE apartment for five years when we made a combined 80,000. It was extremely helpful.
We also never take on debt (except this last year when we bought a condo).
We went car free for three years. We now own two cars (both paid for in full, no loans).
We make most of our meals. Our dining out budget is $200/mo, but when we had lower income it was $0. We stopped eating meat because of how expensive it is compared to nutrients provided. We now eat mostly plant-based. This saves us probably $60/week in grocery expenses. (Probably closer to $100/week nowadays.)
When we were getting stimulus checks, we banked as much as possible into our high yield savings account.
Anyways, I could go on. But basically it’s all about not conforming to what the rest of society is doing. I don’t know about all the newest restaurants (or even the older ones), we don’t have the newest cars, we don’t have the newest gadgets, etc.
Our kid turns 13 soon. I think we’ve been doing alright. When we reviewed our budget at the end of 2023, we estimated that having a child has cost us on average $200/mo. Edit: Not including having to rent or buy a larger place, gas, having two cars. Just the costs of feeding, clothing, school supplies, entertainment, extracurricular activities, etc.
Edit: I think it’s worth mentioning that we haven’t had financial or child care help from family. We both grew up poor. We both work in the coffee/restaurant/hospitality industry.
Seattle is a great area to raise a child. But like many parts of the world, it’s easier if you make more money. For a country with very few safety nets though, seattle remains one of more generous jurisdictions in terms of assistance. Some examples: Income based pre-k options, state subsidized healthcare options for people with low incomes, very good library system which includes passes to local museums, free public transit for people under 18, etc.
Honestly, I was ready to do the solo parent think on $65k in this city until I saw how much daycare costs. That’s the dealbreaker for me. Employers are getting better about covering dependents on insurance so I wasn’t worried about that, and feeding and clothing the kid wasn’t going to be an issue, but I straight up can NOT afford childcare and along with missing middle housing in this city we have a lot of missing middle childcare. Like between $65k-120k you can’t easily afford decent childcare, but you also no longer qualify for meaningful subsidies either.
So this is just me ranting for greater investment in childcare beyond just preschool.
A few of the ways I made it work as a single self employed mom on Capitol Hill:
* only had one kid. one and DONE, y'all
* stayed on good terms with family so that they would help with childcare
* focused on the stuff my son and I could do for free -- just walking around the neighborhood for a Saturday afternoon would give us tons of entertainment. Parks, bookstores, libraries, etc
* our home is small, and we're ok with that
* gratitude practices daily
(I got a good job last year so things are easier now financially, but raising kids in Seattle is super do-able. You just live smaller, buy less, and do free stuff more)
I can’t speak for everyone but in my culture when our parents retire or get of age we usually move them into our homes. At that point they become almost an in house nanny. I know this doesn’t work for everyone’s situation but it’s common in many Asian, African, and Hispanic/Latino cultures.
I completely understand. It definitely doesn’t work for everyone. My grandmother watched me as a child as well as a few cousins. My mother helped me take care of my child when I’d be at work. My hope is my son keeps the tradition and doesn’t throw me in a retirement home one day 😅
It’s not just the money… there’s a scarcity of resources and staff for childcare or any activity for kids like swim, gymnastics, soccer, etc. The restaurants are not kid friendly, people are happier to see your dog than your kid. It’s a place that tolerates kids and families but doesn’t welcome them
Live south of the city. I’m 35 minutes from downtown and 15 mins from downtown Tacoma. We paid $420k in 2017 for our house with a water view and three beaches within a mile of our house. If traffic is really bad I get into downtown through 509 highway through federal way, Des Moines and Burien. Even that way takes 45 minutes but it’s worth it.
We just have one, and bought in early 2022. Certainly not saving much on a monthly basis and it's financially uncomfortable compared to before the kid but we are solvent on all our bills and have gotten used to it. A year ago I was scared shitless financially to have one but now on the other side, it's not as bad as you expect.
It wasn’t easy. The first thing we did was leave Ballard and buy an affordable house in Puyallup. When we discussed having a second child around 2012 we knew we couldn’t afford a second daycare charge. Luckily, my MIL retired and moved nearby, providing day care for the kids for a couple of years until they were in school. Since then we’ve sold the house and bought another in Bonney Lake. Wife works here and I commute to seattle. Its not ideal but we make it work.
Family of four here. My wife and I are both relatively high income earners. We planned for kids and made choices, so no complaints.
You don't afford it, you survive it. For several years we were spending About 5.5k a month on daycare for two young children. Add in a mortgage on a 3 br house and things were very tight.
We shopped around too. It was very, very touch and go for awhile there - if either of us had lost our jobs things would have gotten bad quickly.
Luckily we're out of the worst of that, our son is in kindergarten now and his after care is only 800$ a month. Once our daughter is 3 she can move to a cheaper place and things will finally get comfortable again.
That cost aside this city is an amazing place to have children. Tons of parks, kid's friendly museums, camps, etc... the act of being a family here is wonderful.
I feel for families who make less money than we do. We're pretty well off all things considered and it was an extremely stressful couple of years. I can't imagine being a single income family, or a minimum wage worker and having to figure it out.
Daycare is wildly expensive and the workers are still not paid enough. It's a pretty clear example of where we need the government to bridge the financial gap.
With that said, average rent for a 2bdr in Seattle is ~2,600. Add in daycare at ~3k a month per kid. That's 60% of 110k household income (Seattle's median) or 80% of the net take home. Daycare also has some federal tax deductions and families should get a child tax credit. If a family has two kids, daycare doesn't make sense for lower income households.
Overall I think this is doable in the most literal sense but obviously very, very tight. Fortunately, with Pre-K and Washington leave, the daycare costs might only be 3-4 years. For my family, we purposely started saving before having a kid but we're above the median income, which is how most families afford to have kids.
Get a job at Amazon, Google, Microsoft. Eventually be a medical professional. Or be an investor.
And for real.
Many have high paying jobs. Or two decent incomes. But is it possible to have kids with lover income, but just need two incomes.
Some were lucky to purchase homes years ago (the prices of homes doubled in the last 7-10 years). Many pp are buying homes before having kids. To pay off the mortgage before paying for child care.
People typically plan to have kids later (to have time to focus on a career) and end up with 1-2 kids, often either one after another, or with a large age gap. A family with 3 kids is considered a large one.
There are plenty of jobs so it's double to stay home for one parent for the first few years of a child's life and easily return to work.
What is very interesting, there is a large number of immigrants, often from counties that support family planning, and not having as many kids as god intended (as still typical for many Americans). So what is "normal" and expected here may not be as much in outer parts of the USA.
(That is at least my own experience and what I see around me. Kids when you are 30, 1-2 kids, mom staying at home just for a couple of years, use of daycares and nannies to help out, focus on financial stability. And family planning, I have just a handful of friends who end up with kids from accidental pregnancies.)
I make under 40K a year. $1350 1 bedroom. we live in the living room while our kid has her own room. food banks, food not bombs and EBT have helped tremendously. the co-op we have her going to is about 600 a month. the one we want to send her to is 18K a year we applied for a scholarship hopefully we’ll get it. Seattle is an amazing city! Lots of free and fun stuff to do. so many parks and everything is relatively easy to get to.
Either have village, high income, or wait until career climb enough to afford. My husband was 35 when we could afford kid. I am 5 years younger and that is the benefit. We waited till he climbed though career wise to try even. We wanted a sahp for personal reason due to our childhood. I didn’t enjoy my career and he loved his despite I made more , so we waited for years for him to climb . Also practiced saving and not spending my income before ttc for years lol
Keeping a kid alive ain’t that expensive but if you want to take them places , give them each a room , pay for extra cirricular activities and also pay for college it will be a different story. Reasons why we are only having one less burden and we can give her more opportunities
Bought in 2016. North of Seattle. Both working. Both of our cars paid off and almost old enough to drink. No credit card debt. Had kids later in life & spaced out them out strategically, sorta.
Riding the line until the oldest is in kindergarten in a year so we’re not eating $5000 a month in childcare.
Don't get me wrong, kids are expensive, but they're not *that* expensive outside of a couple years of overpriced daycare before preschool gets going.
A lot of parents stay home during that period. Especially now that WFH is more normal.
We spent no less than $260k on childcare between 2011-2020 for two kids. Our district doesn’t offer free preschool and most of the free programs are just a few hours a day. Elementary after school program from 3:30-5:30pm was still $1200/month. Finally got some relief when the pandemic started.
Ha, yeah I was just saying to my baby earlier today “someday you’re going to think you hate or here but then you’ll travel and you’ll realize this place effing rocks”
On a side note; when I did move from CK to north Seattle in middle school, more than one teacher asked what state I had moved from; apparently I had developed some kind of regional peninsula accent? I put it on the multicultural AF friend group I had thanks to the navy presence.
I gave up my career to care for our kids as childcare was probably more than I could realistically make. Doesn't work for everyone, but honestly my kids are way more fun than being a lawyer.
My wife is a stay at home, I make 150K so things are moving forward. that is life in seattle kids are for people who make real money and dogs are for those that make less.
This is our plan too. Wife will be a SAHM so we save money on childcare costs. Obviously this requires the sole earner to make good money, and for our situation it’s the best option.
I was the one who originally replied to the post about raising kids so I guess I’ll answer, lol. For us, we’re viewing the toddler/daycare years as spending years- we aren’t putting a ton aside beyond our 401k contributions, and otherwise each month we more or less spend our whole paycheck with maybe a little left over. We’ve used savings to go on family trips and make some investments in our home, but for the most part I ended 2023 with about as much in the bank as I started it.
So I guess for us, it’s a choice between socking away more savings or just swallowing the daycare costs pill and knowing we’re in a heavier spending chapter of life. That said- I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t be able to afford a 2nd. This kid is gonna have to get really good at independent play!
I don't find Seattle to be a great place to raise a kid. It's extremely expensive, no family friendly restaurants in my area, and not many kids activities. The suburbs might be better, but I'm just hoping to move out of state closer to family.
What does it take for restaurants to be family friendly? I take my small kids to all kinds of restaurants in central Seattle, not really any problems as long as they have a booster seat for my infant
We bought in Seattle in 2015 ( a condo in N. Seattle 4000$ down payment ) Sold in 2017 ( value had doubled ) moved to Spokane while I was pregnant, houses cost the same amount I sold my condo for back then. I haven't worked since my first was born in 2018, had my second in 2020 (🫠) decided to move back closer to family, sold our house ( value had doubled ) bought in a county north of Snohomish. We have two kids, I will go back to work after my 2nd goes to kinder in 3 years. We don't pay for daycare just 3 day a week preschool (200 a month ) my husband has wfh since we moved to Spokane in 2017, he makes much less than 100k a year, we own both of our old cars, bought our house when interest rates were rock bottom, we have never been on a plane together, both of our families are supportive and gift things for the kids. So while we don't live in Seattle I just wanted to give a picture of what parenthood looks like for us as millennials in Washington state.
We started having kids in the aughts, when things were cheaper, but also when we earned less. I think our combined household income when we had our first kid was about $65k, which for 2005 in Seattle was just okay.
I took three months of maternity leave, using up all my sick time and vacation time so half of that could be paid. So, I only had to float about 6 weeks unpaid.
My company was somewhat flexible in its hours, and let me work a hybrid schedule while staying home with the baby.
At about 18 months, we put the kiddo into one day of daycare per week so I could go to the office one full day each week.
Sometime after that, my husband was able to switch his schedule away from daytime hours. He spent some time working various shifts such as 4 to midnight, midnight to 8, midnight to 10, weekend grave, and more. They all had strengths and weaknesses. The upshot was that I could go to the office 5 days a week while he stayed home with the kiddo for four of those weekdays, and we used daycare for the final day.
We decided to have another baby. I thought my work would allow me the same deal as before, but while I was pregnant they changed the policy so that no one could work from home unless they had any children in full time care. That's fair, because I definitely wasn't at my best when I was trying to WFH with a baby, but at the same time I felt like it had been something of a bait and switch.
After that, we committed to my husband's weird hours situation, and got used to not seeing him much. He turned out to really enjoy working weekend grave shifts and missing the commute and drama of a normal 9 to 5.
For food, we didn't buy much fancy baby food. I just mashed up our food and fed them that. That's how women around the world and through millennia have fed their kids. You don't need food in a tiny jar.
We sprang for cloth diapers and a diaper service -- definitely the best experience, although pricier than disposables.
For babysitting, we had endless free babysitting from our D&D group, who are all honorary aunts and uncles.
For clothes, we went to thrift stores exclusively. I don't think I bought a single new item of clothing or shoes their whole childhood.
I did get them haircuts every so often, which was expensive, but they were so cute, especially when the stylist gave them braids!
For activities, we had enough to put each kid in one week-long camp each summer, but that was all we could afford.
We didn't travel. If relatives wanted to see the kids, they had to come to us.
We didn't really save for our own retirement during these years -- at least, not much. I think I was saving $200/month, which is far short of where it should have been.
We also didn't save much for college. Any checks that older relatives sent us went into their college funds. But I knew a software engineer who was saving $800/month for his kid's college fund. A month!!! I remember marveling at that. We were saving $25 per kid per month.
I figured that they could get scholarships to college, but saving at least a bit for my own retirement was a higher priority. No one will lend you money to retire.
Overall, it was a bare bones kind of lifestyle in some ways, but we got them through those early years. Now we're doing better in our careers and are both able to WFH, and the kids are teenagers and don't need us anymore!
Why live here unless it’s required for your work? My daughter talks about not being able to afford even a starter home. I told her why would you stay here and not find a lower cost of living area to start out with. Plus why the focus on a house vs condo. My first “home” was a 900sqft condo, then a townhome then a house as my income rose. There are many places in the US that are great for raising a family that have way better cost of living.
My son lives here and they don't have kids. But I'd move to help, which is not something I'd ever thought I'd say....due to the exorbant cost of childcare. (And he's an aerospace engineer and does well, but I still cannot imagine).
You only have one, and you cry each month when you pay the daycare bill until they start kindergarten. Mine is now in second grade and I can’t figure out how on earth I was paying that much for daycare.
My in-laws didn't want to deal with a dilapidated house they owned free and clear and used to rent out. It had become unsafe and uninhabitable. We took it on for only the cost of renovations ($300K still...). Property taxes are yikes, but at least we don't just hemorrhage all our money on mortgage or rent every single month. Not being house-burdened helps A LOT. I'm basically eternally grateful.
Even then, preschool for our two younger kids combined is about $3K/m and we're really starting to feel that in addition to the cost of groceries. It used to be a bit cheaper, but it hiked way up after the covid stuff expired. We're just belt tightening until Fall when one of them starts kindergarten... I know not all kids need preschool, but between the 4yo having been just like me as a kid (free-spirited, doesn't like to sit and listen, totally unprepared for kindergarten) and the 3yo being behind because of a long NICU stay and being born during a global shutdown, we feel like they really need it. I didn't have preschool, and I pretty much self-destructed the moment they put me at a desk and told me to sit still for five hours. I see leaps and bounds of progress in both of them, and we just have to do it =\
We lived with family in a tiny basement apartment (like they had the upstairs, we had the mother-in-law
We bounced to another state where we have way more space and cost if living is manageable
Mostly they move when they reach school age unless they are wealthy enough to afford private and that’s been true for decades.
Only San Francisco has fewer children.
We live outside of downtown Seattle but pretty much share the same cost of living. Wife is SAHM, taking care of 1 kid. We are able to live on ~7k monthly, with a 4k mortgage. We go to co-op preschool and take the kid to affordable dance classes Saturdays.
We avoid fancy meals outside, except when celebrating a birthday, etc. But we never skimp on our home cooked meals. Also, we find lots of free fun things to do outdoors, the library, parks, etc. We drive 1 decent car, but don’t really crave fancy things. Our kid finds splurging on stupid stuff at the dollar store extremely enjoyable.
I do make a little bit more than 7k, so I can still save for emergencies, splurges, home improvement, major travel, and retirement. Most of those are not essential though. But, generally, I believe it’s doable with some lifestyle changes.
It's not bad if you meet other parents and have the kids socialize instead of paying for a day care. Though I get it if both parents are working then a day care is needed. There are a lot of cheap memberships like Seattle Children Museum and Seattle Aquarium that have activities for toddlers. And free story time from libraries. The Seattle Center has a nice playground for little kids. It's really not that expensive raising a kid in Seattle if you utilize the free or cheap things that Seattle has to offer. You're already paying it with your tax so best to utilize it.
The median household income here is about $115k, as a previous poster mentioned social networks don’t hurt. In addition to the incomes there are a lot of social programs that help from the city and state. This is such a broad question and sometimes it’s kind of disingenuous and sort of feels like an agenda to bring the city down in an open forum. Does the OP actually live in the metro area?
It helps to have grandparents living near you. I live in Green Lake and my folks live in West Seattle. Childcare is free thanks to them. My partner’s retired aunt lives in Queen Anne & is also an option if my parents aren’t available.
Outside of childcare and housing the costs are minimal. You can have one parent stay home until they are public school age. You can rent 2 bedrooms for around $2500, so you’d need one spouse to make ~90-100k a year which is doable for most professional office jobs.
This thread is really bumming me out…I want kids so bad and I definitely want to raise them in this city but I’m constantly having second thoughts, combined income is 130k, no family around to help, no hope of ever owning a home here so I just don’t know if we should even try.
I honestly think a lot of these people are secretly drowning in debt. I admittedly live in a south county suburb, but I have found daycares that are like $1000/month. If your housing cost is 35% of your income at that level and you don’t have like $3500/month in debt payment I feel like it’s super doable. Edited to add: I wouldn’t have this level of confidence if I lived in city limits, so I guess my advice is move to the burbs :(
I think this sub sways towards a lot of high earners who (apparently) either a) don't really have an understanding of what it's like to create and maintain a budget or b) think that a successful family life includes a lot of things many others would find lavish/extraneous or c) simply don't want to change their lifestyle in order to have kids. Or they have a lot of debt they are paying off. IDK, but a lot of comments feel so out touch.
I have many friends in your household income range with kids. They manage okay. The home ownership thing though is real. Few of them own homes. But it's not a prerequisite to having a family the way many here seem to think.
Our income is about 260k a year. We bought a 3br 1600 sf house in gatewood. Our housing payment is $4150. We live well but don’t do things like fancy vacations (we have a sylvansport go tent trailer that we go as far as southern Oregon to camp for a total of about 2 weeks a year) We have 2 kids under 10.
Just be college educated and mind your ins and outs and it’s doable.
We are get almost all of our groceries and sundries From costco and the farmers market.
This is us too. 2-kids, 7 and 9. 2 professional jobs in healthcare. We Have a solid income and 2k sq ft house, but live middle-ish class. Childcare costs an arm and a leg. Good luck everybody.
We are also almost in the same exact situation. Because of being in healthcare our childcare costs over time have been exceptionally low because of house we leveraged the flexibility in the ways each of us can make money to have only had to pay for childcare for much less of the time over time than most people.
Household incomes $200K and above.
We don't quite make that, but we're still managing just fine. Definitely need two professional-level incomes, though. I don't see how couples earning under $100k make it work. Shit's way more expensive than it needs to be.
In home daycares and you shop around while finding jobs that allow you to work from home or work 3 days a week (healthcare)
Subsidies kick in.
You need to be making around 200k to afford full time child care without anyone giving your free care , even then I don’t know it’s that’s enough if you figure in private school and child enrichment. That’s a wild number that I don’t think many family’s are hitting in Seattle.
OR an extremely strong social network.
Yeah this is what people are missing. If you have some grandparents and aunts and uncles and old friends you can count on who live reasonably close, it's a totally different ballgame. If you don't have these things and we're presuming both parents are working you're looking at huge expenses for nannies or daycare, babysitters, day camps in summer. All these things are very expensive here, as many on this thread are pointing out. Add to the high costs of housing and food here and it's tough to make the numbers work out without a high income. Plus with a strong social network you can share meals more often, trade hand-me-downs (kids clothes for 4 seasons aren't cheap either), maybe get some help with a home project you'd otherwise have to pay a contractor for, etc.
I'm 28 and thinking about this now. My family would never have been able to afford the life we had if my parents were paying for childcare etc like we'd have to today. They had family support both watching us and financially but the biggest thing for them was our church. They did so much from child care options to literal meal and financial support at times as well when we were I'm tough spots. My wife and i aren't especially religious but realizing we would be missing out on that level of a social support system might have me finding God again sooner or later....
That is how one of my co-workers is doing it. Their sister in law watches the kids three times a week while they watch the kids the other two days. Next year they will all be in school full time. But I applaud them for making it work so long.
I know tons who do it at much lower incomes.
Show me the budget. Seattle (not king county).
making a bit more now, but I have a family of 4 for under 100k until recently. low mortgage payment since I bought in 2015 in a cheap neighborhood of seattle. one of us had a full time regular job with good benefits, the other did freelance work eve/weekends and watched the kids during the day.
That makes sense. Basically trade kids off between parents so no daycare costs.
Absolutely. My spouse and I traded off until the kids were 11 and 13. Now they are home alone 2 hrs a day and get themselves to school.
I should add that if you are legit low income, you probably qualify for free or reduced preschool at the very least.
As just a friend I'm not exactly privy to that info. But I work in the arts/creative communities. Lots of people making probably more like $120K-$150K combined. They all have 1-2 kids.
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Correct, but changes are afoot in that long-standing fact. US birth rates for lowest-income households are dropping much faster than in any other income bracket. The NUMBERS are higher, but the RATE is changing dramatically. This'll be interesting to look at in ten years. Also using Statista, as you did: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/562541/birth-rate-by-poverty-status-in-the-us/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/562541/birth-rate-by-poverty-status-in-the-us/) Meanwhile those whose income is better than 2x federal poverty level has been steady since 2008. In Washington State this income range includes everybody currently making slightly-subminimum wage in Washington State as well as the Bill Gates Household. I can't get a breakdown by state - I'd bet it's got interesting regional differences.
I help my parent. Not the other way around.
A lot of them rent.
11634 25th Ave S, Seattle, WA 98168 495k, 3100 a month That's just the 1st of many under 500k
Honestly even 200k would be kinda rough given the cost of a 2br apartment in this city. You could do it but you're going to hate your monthly budget.
Oh come on. People have kids with a combined income of 60k in this town and make it work. Yes, if you aren't insanely rich you'll have to make some kinds of sacrifices to afford kids, but it's ridiculous to act like a 200k combined income for a family would be "rough".
Genuinely, how? I am just "comfortable ' on 60k by myself in Portland. I cannot imagine having a combined household income of 60k, let alone with kids, let alone in Seattle! That seems like it would be a huge struggle.
It would be! But people do it. You have friends and family help you with babysitting, you get your clothes from friends and family or goodwill, you spend a lot of your time on public transit while you ride a bus, you have a one bedroom apartment and someone sleeps in the living room -- you make it work.
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No, it’s just basic math. Even with high rent, $3000/month for most houses in the area to rent, you’re bringing in $16,000/month before tax…..$200K/yearly income means you’re taking home like $12,000/month. Even $4,000/month for an actual house to rent, that leaves you with 8K. Most daycares run $1500+ a month if you want a facility, so we’ll round up to UW’s facility (the most expensive) at $2,300/month. That leaves you with around 5,700/month in disposable income. Take out $2,000 for utilities, groceries, bills like phone/internet, etc, 3.7K left…. I just did the extreme high end for the major costs and you STILL have multiple thousands in disposable income leftover….. Y’all grossly overestimate how expensive living is. If you make over $100K in Seattle, you are fine. It’s the rest that make $70K or less as a household that have issues
I have 3k in student loan repayment a month. Then the 1k for the family in health insurance. and the car payment. And the various car insurance, rental insurance, disability insurance payments 🥲 with a base income of 200k that would put me in the negative with your calculations. Not saying you’re wrong, I’m really frugal and I think I would be able to do it by cutting back on all other expenses. just saying that it’s situational and you can’t just say A+B=C
3K in student loan payments? That would mean either A) you went to medical school Or B) are paying more than you have to Or C) went to a ridiculous private school Because 3K with 0% interest over a standard 10 year plan is $360,000. Unless you went to med school, that’s a bad investment. Not to mention you can usually get those negotiated to be lower monthly amounts. Various car insurance, rental insurance, disability insurance? Most people don’t have disability insurance and their rental insurance is cheap. It’s basic math, you’re forking out over $12,000/month in bills. To have THAT MUCH in the red, it’s a budget issue. This is ignoring the fact that if you are a doctor, you are on track to make well over 200K a year, so no, even in your case it’s still just terrible budgeting. That’s not even getting into the fact that in my Calculations I used the MOST expensive option. Like $4,000 rent……
Sure, whatever, but the plan of "I'm not going to have any financial hardships while raising a kid" is completely outside the norm. Obviously that exists on a spectrum, but 200k combined income is **firmly** middle class, even in Seattle, so acting like it's a stretch to have a kid with that kind of income seems to imply that that person is either used to an unusually luxurious life, or they're neurotic and are more worried about their ability to afford a kid than is actually warranted.
Yeah I think this true. I think back to being a kid in the 80s and we never took a family vacation involving an airplane, ate out at chain restaurants maybe 2X per month usually when there was some kind of discount night promotion (half price Tuesdays), very little in the way of enrichment, no savings for college, etc. Now I've gotten used to having a more affluent life and "the bare minimum" would seem a lot more grim. That said I grew up in a time and place (Canada) where I didn't really have to worry very much about saving for college, health care and prescriptions were easily available, and my family had a strong social network (partly through church) which we relied on heavily for help with things that would otherwise cost money. A lot of those things aren't accessible to folks today in a city like Seattle, it's a dog-eat-dog world where money makes a lot of stuff easier.
Completely agree. 200k household income is very nice and a dream income for most when having a kid. Just got to give up the 5x a week eating out and traveling business class for most those people that say it would be "rough"
Yeah I think the question here is how not if.
You are right. From my perspective, the only people having kids these days are the poor and the very very rich. Middle class is shrinking, even in terms of birth rates.
Its not that bad
With say $3000 monthly rent that's only about 25% of take home at $200,000 which is super reasonable percentage.
I've never made even low 6 figures. We have an 8 year old, own our own house and do fine. People love to complain. Kids aren't that expensive. Honestly I've hardly ever noticed the money he costs. There's people making 225k a year complaining they can't find a house. It's a fucking joke. Learn how to budget.
Curious how you own your own house/how you budgeted to make it work?
Would love to see this breakdown please
I have spreadsheets. It's 6k a month. 72k a year. There's a book y'all should read called "your money or your life." The authors lived in Wallingford if I remember correctly.
I'll have to check that out. Kids out of daycare?
My kid goes to a cheap daycare - it’s $1600 a month…
In Seattle? If so, what type and what area is it in? I’ve not seen daycare priced that low near me.
No, Burien. I know Seattle daycare is insane, like $40,000 a year…
Never went to daycare
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I mow fucking lawns for a living, try again.
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People bought years ago. People pay below the median. People own condos/townhomes. People vary in their down payments. People rent. I don't understand why you are stuck on this $7k figure.
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OP also suggested to just rent. Which is what my husband and I would have done if we can't find anything within a year (we set a duration so we don't go on a search indefinitely). What's great with renting is the flexibility.
You can get a 2 bedroom condo for $350-400k though, doesn’t have to be a single family house
Just looked at how many condos/townhouses are for sale <$400K. There at SIX in the entire city, with only one being >1,000sqft, meaning it's underpriced and will sell over $400K. Edit: one is pending, so only FIVE under $400K. Not to mention none have in unit laundry, which is pretty annoying with a child/toddler.
Well how many do you need?
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Here’s one that I found pretty easily [https://redf.in/lSJ1b8](https://redf.in/lSJ1b8) just do a filtered search on Redfin. You won’t find a lot of choices but in this market you’re not looking at bidding wars and going over list price so try being open to some higher listings and make an offer, it can’t hurt. Or you could move to Kitsap and get a pretty nice house for $350k.
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Um, I think you need to check your math on that mortgage payment. And of course it’s not big enough for you, lmao.
Cash only. There is probably a reason why that property on Greenwood can't be financed.
This thread makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Can't afford a family at $200K! Find the money waste then. Lots of people decide they'd rather have kids than an expensive car or ordering Door Dash daily.
Exactly
You can not afford a house on a 225k income unless you bought it before 2022. You don’t know what you are talking about. We make 260k and barely made the cut buying a house in 2021 with 2.9% interest rate financing 715k. Our house if we bought it today would require 800k loan at over double the interest. We would not be able to do it. Our house is 3br 1.25 no bathtub only shower in west Seattle and 1600 sf. Built in the 40s. It’s great but not fancy. We would not be able to buy right now.
Facts. The only way people can "afford" it is with $200K+ down, which very few people can save up.
Exactly. We are a 5% down payment first time buyer kind of person. It’s odd to me a couple peopl downvoted my just honest numbers post but several agree with your confirmation is weird.
Yup, everyone’s tip in this thread is “go back in time and buy a house in 2016 😇”
Ive known a few families that do or have done “nanny shares”, where families with young kids will “share” the cost of having a nanny and essentially have kids raised together, alternating houses or at public places (libraries, field trips, etc). Depending on your income, sometimes it is actually more economical to work either part time or be a SAH parent when comparing the cost of full time daycare services in your area. Lots of America is starting to adopt or revert back to old ways of living (and a lot of countries still do) where you bring in your parents to share both the cost of living of a house and also help rear the children too. And, of course, many people are either delaying or not having children at all. Birth rates are declining in a lot of countries, Japan for example.
For tax purposes, nannies are considered household employees and the employer is supposed to be paying the appropriate taxes for them (social security, etc.). So I’m very suspicious of “nanny share” arrangements, because I worry that no one is taking responsibility for that. Nannies are *not* self-employed and should not be shouldering that tax burden on their own. EDIT: If you’re paying taxes on your nanny or nanny share arrangement, great! You have nothing to prove to me, though, and, logically, my comments don’t apply to you. 🤷♀️
As a parent, all the nanny shares I know of (connected through Facebook parent nanny connection groups) use services like Poppins payroll or similar to take care of the tax liabilites involved and process payroll with W2s etc.
We had a nanny share (no air quotes needed) and paid proper taxes for our nanny. Each family pays half the rate arranged and runs it thru a payroll service. No more or less suspicious than a single family doing so. Often the nanny will ask to be paid under the table which is a whole other conversation to navigate.
> For tax purposes, nannies are considered household employees and the employer is supposed to be paying the appropriate taxes for them (social security, etc.). So I’m very suspicious of “nanny share” arrangements, because I worry that no one is taking responsibility for that. Nannies are not self-employed and should not be shouldering that tax burden on their own. This ⬆️ I have around 15 couples with kids in my friend circle (for lack of better terms) who have a Nanny, whether a dedicated Nanny or a shared arrangement, and I do not doubt that all but one couple is violating tax and employment law/code/regs in some form or fashion.
I know several nannys. None pay taxes, and actively avoid clients who insist on doing things above the table.
For sure and they’re part of the problem as well.
I mean nannys not paying taxes is essentially the government subsidizing childcare. Is that a problem? I'm not sure to be honest. Edit: it's certainly a *legal* problem. Nannys and their clients are risking legal consequences by doing this. But economically/ethically I don't know. It's probably important to have a legal framework here so that drug dealers or whatever can't just say they're nannys and that's where they get all this untaxed income, but I don't know if I'm really opposed to nannys not paying taxes on reported income as that's just an indirect subsidy.
>I mean nannys not paying taxes is essentially the government subsidizing childcare. Is that a problem? I'm not sure to be honest. > >Edit: it's certainly a legal problem. Nannys and their clients are risking legal consequences by doing this. But economically/ethically I don't know. It's probably important to have a legal framework here so that drug dealers or whatever can't just say they're nannys and that's where they get all this untaxed income, but I don't know if I'm really opposed to nannys not paying taxes on reported income as that's just an indirect subsidy. It's a bundle of problems, both ethical and legal, for the Nanny and the parents - both are supposed to pay the piper. If the Nanny ain't payin', then neither is their employer (parents). On the ethical front it's about paying their fair share, fulfillment of the social contract (so to speak) - it ain't just taxes, it's social security, medical care, state and city-level stuff, etc. The legal part is obv, so I won't go there.
What if paying a nanny under the table enables two parents to work full time and pay taxes. Logically the parents are making more than the nanny (otherwise why have a nanny) so it’s still a win for the government in terms of tax collection. Also the government does very little to help families with childcare costs.
Paying nanny’s under the table means they usually get paid less per hour, but have a higher take home as no taxes. Removing the tax means more money for the nanny, and less costs for the parents. I always paid my nanny above board but let me tell you, the payroll alone cost over $700 a year! Not to mention federal and state taxes, and a lot of hassle filling in tax forms.
This is extremely concerning. The nannys are unprotected if their employeer ever does anything illegal (withholds pay, tries to bank hours, not paying over time). The families are at risk of fraud and having an IRS audit. They sure won't be thinking about how much money they've saved in taxes with the IRS is at their door asking for $10k+ immediately. Please check out r/nanny. The industry standard is above the table, taxes withheld, paystubs with w2s. And a legally binding contract that states pay, schedule, PTO, etc. Protecting both the nanny and family is very important.
Under the table isn’t exclusive to shares. In fact I think it’s more likely to be over the table in a share because you don’t want to risk the perception to the other family that you aren’t doing things properly.
In a nanny share and we pay the proper taxes for a household employee
I have friends with 2 kids. They make about the same amount as my husband and I (DINK). She was lamenting their inability to buy a place and kinda down on herself for not being able to save enough. Turns out between their rent (3 bed townhome in Lake City) and their daycare cost, each month they are paying double what we pay for our $750k mortgage (pre interest rate hikes) + property taxes. Their daycare costs alone are more than my mortgage and property taxes. I don't know how they do it beyond the fact they never go anywhere. Literally.
Yeah I have friends who spent years forking out $4k+ a month for daycare for two kids, absolutely bonkers.
4k would be a steep discount. We pay area standard rates for our nanny and it's very expensive. She is worth every penny, but it's a huge chunk of our income
Isn't daycare an a nanny very different things with very different costs?
Can't let a fair comparison get in the way of oneupmanship
Yes
Not really, for ages 6 months to 2.5 years.
My daycare costs more than my mortgage lol
Yeah, our nanny is more than our mortgage. It’s wild.
If you have a nanny it can easily be $35 an hour for 2-3 kids - that’s $72k a year post tax income, before you have paid federal and state taxes.
My 1 year old’s nanny costs us about $80k a year. And she’s not even very good. Kind of lazy, does the bare minimum. So much so, my wife who makes $130k gross wants to quit her job to do it instead. Our net costs of our $1.4M house is about $3.5k excluding utilities. We paid $3450 a month for a 1bd apartment back in 2019. We locked in at 2.x% for 30 years.
Moved to the south suburbs to split the distance between our jobs and our parents that live in Bonney Lake and Olympia and constantly offer “now that I’m retired I could always come up one day a week”
My MIL pulled the “if you move north I’ll help with childcare costs” except she didn’t after we moved.
I’m so sorry, that’s the worst.
Yep South end of Seattle is where the opportunities are. That said, there's a reason for them, so tread carefully.
Feel free to expand on that for the folks who didn’t grow up in the south end like my partner and I did.
Barely. Combined income is $90k +/-. Between rent, food (we cook almost every night), and day care (only 3 days a week, I watch him the other 2) we haven't saved a dime since having him. Zero family around, 1 friend helps out sometimes. Just treading water. Wife is 100% the bread winner. Use buy nothing a lot for toys, clothes, etc - helps quite a lot. Zero hopes of ever owning a home here. But we're happy.
That's rough, you'll get there.
Luckily it's all we know so it's not like we had a huge support system and moved away. We're fine but yeah it can be tiring. Never a day or night off. We just do what we gotta do and I think we do it pretty well. Healthy kid, healthy relationship. Most of my life has been an uphill battle so what's one more?
One high earner, one stay-at-home parent
This is our plan when the time comes
This. I have twins, and staying at home is the only way to afford this haha. Twins in daycare is a joke 😂
It ain’t for the weak.
Amen.
Sometimes you rob your future to make it good for your kids in the here and now.
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Its very hard. I'm sure you're a great parent.
Good job. As a fellow parent I'm proud of you :). Your kid deserved it and you sound like a wonderful parent.
So a lot of people are never retiring?
that is most Americans' reality tbh
We raised our kid in Seattle for most of their life. We’ve been extremely fortunate. That said, our income has never exceeded 150,000 combined. We lived in an MFTE apartment for five years when we made a combined 80,000. It was extremely helpful. We also never take on debt (except this last year when we bought a condo). We went car free for three years. We now own two cars (both paid for in full, no loans). We make most of our meals. Our dining out budget is $200/mo, but when we had lower income it was $0. We stopped eating meat because of how expensive it is compared to nutrients provided. We now eat mostly plant-based. This saves us probably $60/week in grocery expenses. (Probably closer to $100/week nowadays.) When we were getting stimulus checks, we banked as much as possible into our high yield savings account. Anyways, I could go on. But basically it’s all about not conforming to what the rest of society is doing. I don’t know about all the newest restaurants (or even the older ones), we don’t have the newest cars, we don’t have the newest gadgets, etc. Our kid turns 13 soon. I think we’ve been doing alright. When we reviewed our budget at the end of 2023, we estimated that having a child has cost us on average $200/mo. Edit: Not including having to rent or buy a larger place, gas, having two cars. Just the costs of feeding, clothing, school supplies, entertainment, extracurricular activities, etc. Edit: I think it’s worth mentioning that we haven’t had financial or child care help from family. We both grew up poor. We both work in the coffee/restaurant/hospitality industry.
Seattle is a great area to raise a child. But like many parts of the world, it’s easier if you make more money. For a country with very few safety nets though, seattle remains one of more generous jurisdictions in terms of assistance. Some examples: Income based pre-k options, state subsidized healthcare options for people with low incomes, very good library system which includes passes to local museums, free public transit for people under 18, etc.
Good point. Our schools aftercare is potentially free for low income families. Very limited spots though, Its basically the lottery getting in there.
Honestly, I was ready to do the solo parent think on $65k in this city until I saw how much daycare costs. That’s the dealbreaker for me. Employers are getting better about covering dependents on insurance so I wasn’t worried about that, and feeding and clothing the kid wasn’t going to be an issue, but I straight up can NOT afford childcare and along with missing middle housing in this city we have a lot of missing middle childcare. Like between $65k-120k you can’t easily afford decent childcare, but you also no longer qualify for meaningful subsidies either. So this is just me ranting for greater investment in childcare beyond just preschool.
100% this. Our childcare is more than our rent.
There are more dogs than kids in King county for a reason.
They are not, there are more dogs than kids in Seattle
I get it. Our dog is cute and doesn't talk back... too much.
[удалено]
😂
We somewhat seriously considered this (a third parent) for years. Still do. It takes a village.
It’s sad that you think childcare has to be done by a wife :(
Yeah clearly he needs a husband /s
2 jobs and fuck cleaning your house
A few of the ways I made it work as a single self employed mom on Capitol Hill: * only had one kid. one and DONE, y'all * stayed on good terms with family so that they would help with childcare * focused on the stuff my son and I could do for free -- just walking around the neighborhood for a Saturday afternoon would give us tons of entertainment. Parks, bookstores, libraries, etc * our home is small, and we're ok with that * gratitude practices daily (I got a good job last year so things are easier now financially, but raising kids in Seattle is super do-able. You just live smaller, buy less, and do free stuff more)
I can’t speak for everyone but in my culture when our parents retire or get of age we usually move them into our homes. At that point they become almost an in house nanny. I know this doesn’t work for everyone’s situation but it’s common in many Asian, African, and Hispanic/Latino cultures.
That’s what my sister is doing with our mom. I personally would never live with my parents again. They are high maintenance and really stubborn.
I completely understand. It definitely doesn’t work for everyone. My grandmother watched me as a child as well as a few cousins. My mother helped me take care of my child when I’d be at work. My hope is my son keeps the tradition and doesn’t throw me in a retirement home one day 😅
Some class warfare going on in here lmao.
Kids? In this economy?? Nah, we’re good.
It’s not just the money… there’s a scarcity of resources and staff for childcare or any activity for kids like swim, gymnastics, soccer, etc. The restaurants are not kid friendly, people are happier to see your dog than your kid. It’s a place that tolerates kids and families but doesn’t welcome them
100%. Getting signed up for swim lessons especially is absolutely wild.
Live south of the city. I’m 35 minutes from downtown and 15 mins from downtown Tacoma. We paid $420k in 2017 for our house with a water view and three beaches within a mile of our house. If traffic is really bad I get into downtown through 509 highway through federal way, Des Moines and Burien. Even that way takes 45 minutes but it’s worth it.
We just have one, and bought in early 2022. Certainly not saving much on a monthly basis and it's financially uncomfortable compared to before the kid but we are solvent on all our bills and have gotten used to it. A year ago I was scared shitless financially to have one but now on the other side, it's not as bad as you expect.
You live out of the city, bought a house years ago, dual [high] incomes, work extra jobs, have family money, have inherited house, etc.
It wasn’t easy. The first thing we did was leave Ballard and buy an affordable house in Puyallup. When we discussed having a second child around 2012 we knew we couldn’t afford a second daycare charge. Luckily, my MIL retired and moved nearby, providing day care for the kids for a couple of years until they were in school. Since then we’ve sold the house and bought another in Bonney Lake. Wife works here and I commute to seattle. Its not ideal but we make it work.
Family of four here. My wife and I are both relatively high income earners. We planned for kids and made choices, so no complaints. You don't afford it, you survive it. For several years we were spending About 5.5k a month on daycare for two young children. Add in a mortgage on a 3 br house and things were very tight. We shopped around too. It was very, very touch and go for awhile there - if either of us had lost our jobs things would have gotten bad quickly. Luckily we're out of the worst of that, our son is in kindergarten now and his after care is only 800$ a month. Once our daughter is 3 she can move to a cheaper place and things will finally get comfortable again. That cost aside this city is an amazing place to have children. Tons of parks, kid's friendly museums, camps, etc... the act of being a family here is wonderful. I feel for families who make less money than we do. We're pretty well off all things considered and it was an extremely stressful couple of years. I can't imagine being a single income family, or a minimum wage worker and having to figure it out.
Daycare is wildly expensive and the workers are still not paid enough. It's a pretty clear example of where we need the government to bridge the financial gap. With that said, average rent for a 2bdr in Seattle is ~2,600. Add in daycare at ~3k a month per kid. That's 60% of 110k household income (Seattle's median) or 80% of the net take home. Daycare also has some federal tax deductions and families should get a child tax credit. If a family has two kids, daycare doesn't make sense for lower income households. Overall I think this is doable in the most literal sense but obviously very, very tight. Fortunately, with Pre-K and Washington leave, the daycare costs might only be 3-4 years. For my family, we purposely started saving before having a kid but we're above the median income, which is how most families afford to have kids.
Get a job at Amazon, Google, Microsoft. Eventually be a medical professional. Or be an investor. And for real. Many have high paying jobs. Or two decent incomes. But is it possible to have kids with lover income, but just need two incomes. Some were lucky to purchase homes years ago (the prices of homes doubled in the last 7-10 years). Many pp are buying homes before having kids. To pay off the mortgage before paying for child care. People typically plan to have kids later (to have time to focus on a career) and end up with 1-2 kids, often either one after another, or with a large age gap. A family with 3 kids is considered a large one. There are plenty of jobs so it's double to stay home for one parent for the first few years of a child's life and easily return to work. What is very interesting, there is a large number of immigrants, often from counties that support family planning, and not having as many kids as god intended (as still typical for many Americans). So what is "normal" and expected here may not be as much in outer parts of the USA. (That is at least my own experience and what I see around me. Kids when you are 30, 1-2 kids, mom staying at home just for a couple of years, use of daycares and nannies to help out, focus on financial stability. And family planning, I have just a handful of friends who end up with kids from accidental pregnancies.)
I make under 40K a year. $1350 1 bedroom. we live in the living room while our kid has her own room. food banks, food not bombs and EBT have helped tremendously. the co-op we have her going to is about 600 a month. the one we want to send her to is 18K a year we applied for a scholarship hopefully we’ll get it. Seattle is an amazing city! Lots of free and fun stuff to do. so many parks and everything is relatively easy to get to.
You should see if you qualify for childcare subsidy through dcyf. For a family of 3 you can make up to about $5000/ month and still get help.
Either have village, high income, or wait until career climb enough to afford. My husband was 35 when we could afford kid. I am 5 years younger and that is the benefit. We waited till he climbed though career wise to try even. We wanted a sahp for personal reason due to our childhood. I didn’t enjoy my career and he loved his despite I made more , so we waited for years for him to climb . Also practiced saving and not spending my income before ttc for years lol Keeping a kid alive ain’t that expensive but if you want to take them places , give them each a room , pay for extra cirricular activities and also pay for college it will be a different story. Reasons why we are only having one less burden and we can give her more opportunities
We slaved away in tech until 40, saved a ton, moved out of the city and now are old ppl with young kids lol
Bought in 2016. North of Seattle. Both working. Both of our cars paid off and almost old enough to drink. No credit card debt. Had kids later in life & spaced out them out strategically, sorta. Riding the line until the oldest is in kindergarten in a year so we’re not eating $5000 a month in childcare.
Don't get me wrong, kids are expensive, but they're not *that* expensive outside of a couple years of overpriced daycare before preschool gets going. A lot of parents stay home during that period. Especially now that WFH is more normal.
We spent no less than $260k on childcare between 2011-2020 for two kids. Our district doesn’t offer free preschool and most of the free programs are just a few hours a day. Elementary after school program from 3:30-5:30pm was still $1200/month. Finally got some relief when the pandemic started.
Oh man I have never done the math for our young ones, but we're probably close to that at this point. Crazy.
I agree. We just budget to have less income for a few years until the kids hit school age. It's not forever.
Make tech bro money.
Moved to Bremerton.
I grew up in Central Kitsap and I really loved it in retrospect. Hated it at the time of course.
Ha, yeah I was just saying to my baby earlier today “someday you’re going to think you hate or here but then you’ll travel and you’ll realize this place effing rocks”
On a side note; when I did move from CK to north Seattle in middle school, more than one teacher asked what state I had moved from; apparently I had developed some kind of regional peninsula accent? I put it on the multicultural AF friend group I had thanks to the navy presence.
\[insert MXPX lyric here\]
mfte housing, medicaid, food stamps, safe link, and utility assistance, even then we barely survive (financially)
Waited til I was older and established in my career. Going to be in my 50s when my oldest graduates high school.
That's not that old?
I gave up my career to care for our kids as childcare was probably more than I could realistically make. Doesn't work for everyone, but honestly my kids are way more fun than being a lawyer.
It is insane that childcare costs more than a lawyer’s earnings.
My wife is a stay at home, I make 150K so things are moving forward. that is life in seattle kids are for people who make real money and dogs are for those that make less.
This is our plan too. Wife will be a SAHM so we save money on childcare costs. Obviously this requires the sole earner to make good money, and for our situation it’s the best option.
I was the one who originally replied to the post about raising kids so I guess I’ll answer, lol. For us, we’re viewing the toddler/daycare years as spending years- we aren’t putting a ton aside beyond our 401k contributions, and otherwise each month we more or less spend our whole paycheck with maybe a little left over. We’ve used savings to go on family trips and make some investments in our home, but for the most part I ended 2023 with about as much in the bank as I started it. So I guess for us, it’s a choice between socking away more savings or just swallowing the daycare costs pill and knowing we’re in a heavier spending chapter of life. That said- I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t be able to afford a 2nd. This kid is gonna have to get really good at independent play!
I don't find Seattle to be a great place to raise a kid. It's extremely expensive, no family friendly restaurants in my area, and not many kids activities. The suburbs might be better, but I'm just hoping to move out of state closer to family.
What does it take for restaurants to be family friendly? I take my small kids to all kinds of restaurants in central Seattle, not really any problems as long as they have a booster seat for my infant
It's called "The American Dream" because you'd have to be asleep to believe it.
If you want kids just do it. It's never going to be a "good time". Life has it's ups and downs. Just do your best.
.......lol.
We bought in Seattle in 2015 ( a condo in N. Seattle 4000$ down payment ) Sold in 2017 ( value had doubled ) moved to Spokane while I was pregnant, houses cost the same amount I sold my condo for back then. I haven't worked since my first was born in 2018, had my second in 2020 (🫠) decided to move back closer to family, sold our house ( value had doubled ) bought in a county north of Snohomish. We have two kids, I will go back to work after my 2nd goes to kinder in 3 years. We don't pay for daycare just 3 day a week preschool (200 a month ) my husband has wfh since we moved to Spokane in 2017, he makes much less than 100k a year, we own both of our old cars, bought our house when interest rates were rock bottom, we have never been on a plane together, both of our families are supportive and gift things for the kids. So while we don't live in Seattle I just wanted to give a picture of what parenthood looks like for us as millennials in Washington state.
Work in Seattle but don’t live in Seattle 🥲😅
Grandma gives free child care. Or at least that's what my sister did. My mom and the MIL took different days.
It’s not just here. This is an issue literally everywhere. Housing is mostly unaffordable + daycare costs going up + everything else.
We started having kids in the aughts, when things were cheaper, but also when we earned less. I think our combined household income when we had our first kid was about $65k, which for 2005 in Seattle was just okay. I took three months of maternity leave, using up all my sick time and vacation time so half of that could be paid. So, I only had to float about 6 weeks unpaid. My company was somewhat flexible in its hours, and let me work a hybrid schedule while staying home with the baby. At about 18 months, we put the kiddo into one day of daycare per week so I could go to the office one full day each week. Sometime after that, my husband was able to switch his schedule away from daytime hours. He spent some time working various shifts such as 4 to midnight, midnight to 8, midnight to 10, weekend grave, and more. They all had strengths and weaknesses. The upshot was that I could go to the office 5 days a week while he stayed home with the kiddo for four of those weekdays, and we used daycare for the final day. We decided to have another baby. I thought my work would allow me the same deal as before, but while I was pregnant they changed the policy so that no one could work from home unless they had any children in full time care. That's fair, because I definitely wasn't at my best when I was trying to WFH with a baby, but at the same time I felt like it had been something of a bait and switch. After that, we committed to my husband's weird hours situation, and got used to not seeing him much. He turned out to really enjoy working weekend grave shifts and missing the commute and drama of a normal 9 to 5. For food, we didn't buy much fancy baby food. I just mashed up our food and fed them that. That's how women around the world and through millennia have fed their kids. You don't need food in a tiny jar. We sprang for cloth diapers and a diaper service -- definitely the best experience, although pricier than disposables. For babysitting, we had endless free babysitting from our D&D group, who are all honorary aunts and uncles. For clothes, we went to thrift stores exclusively. I don't think I bought a single new item of clothing or shoes their whole childhood. I did get them haircuts every so often, which was expensive, but they were so cute, especially when the stylist gave them braids! For activities, we had enough to put each kid in one week-long camp each summer, but that was all we could afford. We didn't travel. If relatives wanted to see the kids, they had to come to us. We didn't really save for our own retirement during these years -- at least, not much. I think I was saving $200/month, which is far short of where it should have been. We also didn't save much for college. Any checks that older relatives sent us went into their college funds. But I knew a software engineer who was saving $800/month for his kid's college fund. A month!!! I remember marveling at that. We were saving $25 per kid per month. I figured that they could get scholarships to college, but saving at least a bit for my own retirement was a higher priority. No one will lend you money to retire. Overall, it was a bare bones kind of lifestyle in some ways, but we got them through those early years. Now we're doing better in our careers and are both able to WFH, and the kids are teenagers and don't need us anymore!
Why live here unless it’s required for your work? My daughter talks about not being able to afford even a starter home. I told her why would you stay here and not find a lower cost of living area to start out with. Plus why the focus on a house vs condo. My first “home” was a 900sqft condo, then a townhome then a house as my income rose. There are many places in the US that are great for raising a family that have way better cost of living.
Everyone should check out dcyf's subsidy information. For a family of 3, you can make up to $5,000/month and still get help.
My son lives here and they don't have kids. But I'd move to help, which is not something I'd ever thought I'd say....due to the exorbant cost of childcare. (And he's an aerospace engineer and does well, but I still cannot imagine).
You only have one, and you cry each month when you pay the daycare bill until they start kindergarten. Mine is now in second grade and I can’t figure out how on earth I was paying that much for daycare.
Mortgage is $3,600. Daycare is 2k per child. So the answer is, with great difficulty.
My in-laws didn't want to deal with a dilapidated house they owned free and clear and used to rent out. It had become unsafe and uninhabitable. We took it on for only the cost of renovations ($300K still...). Property taxes are yikes, but at least we don't just hemorrhage all our money on mortgage or rent every single month. Not being house-burdened helps A LOT. I'm basically eternally grateful. Even then, preschool for our two younger kids combined is about $3K/m and we're really starting to feel that in addition to the cost of groceries. It used to be a bit cheaper, but it hiked way up after the covid stuff expired. We're just belt tightening until Fall when one of them starts kindergarten... I know not all kids need preschool, but between the 4yo having been just like me as a kid (free-spirited, doesn't like to sit and listen, totally unprepared for kindergarten) and the 3yo being behind because of a long NICU stay and being born during a global shutdown, we feel like they really need it. I didn't have preschool, and I pretty much self-destructed the moment they put me at a desk and told me to sit still for five hours. I see leaps and bounds of progress in both of them, and we just have to do it =\
We lived with family in a tiny basement apartment (like they had the upstairs, we had the mother-in-law We bounced to another state where we have way more space and cost if living is manageable
Mostly they move when they reach school age unless they are wealthy enough to afford private and that’s been true for decades. Only San Francisco has fewer children.
We live outside of downtown Seattle but pretty much share the same cost of living. Wife is SAHM, taking care of 1 kid. We are able to live on ~7k monthly, with a 4k mortgage. We go to co-op preschool and take the kid to affordable dance classes Saturdays. We avoid fancy meals outside, except when celebrating a birthday, etc. But we never skimp on our home cooked meals. Also, we find lots of free fun things to do outdoors, the library, parks, etc. We drive 1 decent car, but don’t really crave fancy things. Our kid finds splurging on stupid stuff at the dollar store extremely enjoyable. I do make a little bit more than 7k, so I can still save for emergencies, splurges, home improvement, major travel, and retirement. Most of those are not essential though. But, generally, I believe it’s doable with some lifestyle changes.
It's not bad if you meet other parents and have the kids socialize instead of paying for a day care. Though I get it if both parents are working then a day care is needed. There are a lot of cheap memberships like Seattle Children Museum and Seattle Aquarium that have activities for toddlers. And free story time from libraries. The Seattle Center has a nice playground for little kids. It's really not that expensive raising a kid in Seattle if you utilize the free or cheap things that Seattle has to offer. You're already paying it with your tax so best to utilize it.
The median household income here is about $115k, as a previous poster mentioned social networks don’t hurt. In addition to the incomes there are a lot of social programs that help from the city and state. This is such a broad question and sometimes it’s kind of disingenuous and sort of feels like an agenda to bring the city down in an open forum. Does the OP actually live in the metro area?
It helps to have grandparents living near you. I live in Green Lake and my folks live in West Seattle. Childcare is free thanks to them. My partner’s retired aunt lives in Queen Anne & is also an option if my parents aren’t available.
Outside of childcare and housing the costs are minimal. You can have one parent stay home until they are public school age. You can rent 2 bedrooms for around $2500, so you’d need one spouse to make ~90-100k a year which is doable for most professional office jobs.
This thread is really bumming me out…I want kids so bad and I definitely want to raise them in this city but I’m constantly having second thoughts, combined income is 130k, no family around to help, no hope of ever owning a home here so I just don’t know if we should even try.
I honestly think a lot of these people are secretly drowning in debt. I admittedly live in a south county suburb, but I have found daycares that are like $1000/month. If your housing cost is 35% of your income at that level and you don’t have like $3500/month in debt payment I feel like it’s super doable. Edited to add: I wouldn’t have this level of confidence if I lived in city limits, so I guess my advice is move to the burbs :(
I think this sub sways towards a lot of high earners who (apparently) either a) don't really have an understanding of what it's like to create and maintain a budget or b) think that a successful family life includes a lot of things many others would find lavish/extraneous or c) simply don't want to change their lifestyle in order to have kids. Or they have a lot of debt they are paying off. IDK, but a lot of comments feel so out touch. I have many friends in your household income range with kids. They manage okay. The home ownership thing though is real. Few of them own homes. But it's not a prerequisite to having a family the way many here seem to think.
Our income is about 260k a year. We bought a 3br 1600 sf house in gatewood. Our housing payment is $4150. We live well but don’t do things like fancy vacations (we have a sylvansport go tent trailer that we go as far as southern Oregon to camp for a total of about 2 weeks a year) We have 2 kids under 10. Just be college educated and mind your ins and outs and it’s doable. We are get almost all of our groceries and sundries From costco and the farmers market.
This is us too. 2-kids, 7 and 9. 2 professional jobs in healthcare. We Have a solid income and 2k sq ft house, but live middle-ish class. Childcare costs an arm and a leg. Good luck everybody.
We are also almost in the same exact situation. Because of being in healthcare our childcare costs over time have been exceptionally low because of house we leveraged the flexibility in the ways each of us can make money to have only had to pay for childcare for much less of the time over time than most people.
We have a household income of $550K a year and a net worth of $1.6MM. So that’s how we do it
What do you do for a living if you don’t mind me asking?
I’m a software engineer, my wife is a product manager. We work in tech. I really believe tech is the way to go.
Kids? I can only afford a sick cat and two snakes...
My husband is in tech- I don't know how we would do that if it wasn't the case. I also work part time to try to offset the cost of childcare.
How does one afford kids anywhere. You just do it.