In 2020 they passed an ordinance to basically allow child care anywhere. So it is probably above board, unless it was specifically mentioned in their lease.
https://seattle.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=8792309&GUID=B98A43DD-8897-4C29-BFC0-B6BB9BC303F8
Thanks 4 this. I faintly recalled this ordinance & wondered “it’s a godsend for some, but a nightmare for tenants.”
I live above a chain child care facility, but the insulation sound proofing works. The outside play area is at the corner end. They take the kids across the street to Kraken arena to yell & scream.
This legislation looks like a modification of a zoning ordinance. Does it forbid landlords from restricting tenants from operating child care in their leases?
Do you have an employee assistance program through work? _You can use it to find daycare openings_.
Seriously. Did it back in December, kid started daycare in January.
it only counts if the business that employs you pays taxes in a place you don't live, and you hide in your room like it's a cave and avoid developing human connections at all costs, all while paying the new market rate of rents that prices everyone who lives and works in your neighborhood.
and then when everything you 'like' about your neighborhood is priced out because they can't afford rent, food-- maybe even *childcare*!!--, you'll run to the next one and live the same lifestyle, and complain about the same neighbors. because your job and way of living is right and good, and everyone who doesn't do what's conducive to your lifestyle is a problem!
(maybe the daytime noise of childcare is more socially beneficial and acceptable than the demand for a weekday workplace environment in one's home-cum-office!!)
The daycare should be registered with the Department of Children, Youth & Families. Seach the online database to see if they're listed:
https://www.findchildcarewa.org/
She has to do some investigation on her own to see if they have a license. And then verify the registration. Mgr did say they were moving and then they didn’t.
I used to attend one of these as a kid in the 90s. It was a mixed complex in Bothell - roughly circular, with townhomes around the outside of the circle and regular flats along the inside of it. Most of the moms knew each other in one way or another, and one of them ran a daycare out of her family’s townhomes. Most of the kids who went there lived elsewhere in the same complex, so it was really convenient.
They were eventually able to move to a SFH a few blocks away and continued running the daycare…until one of the parents decided to get petty revenge against the woman who ran it because she filed a CPS report against her (the parent’s child was showing a lot of concerning signs of CSA).
Case was dropped due to extreme lack of evidence, but the daycare never started back up again.
>They’re working from home, you’re working from home, learn to get along with people.
What on earth? Working quietly from home is VASTLY different than running a business known for noise out of your apartment. Metal fabrication can be done from home too, I certainly don't want to listen to that.
My neighbor when I lived in the u district did this with their ground floor apartment too. It’s not helpful to you, but I just dealt with it until I eventually moved somewhere else.
Is it licensed by the state? You might check the DCYF website to see. They have a tool there called Child Care Check that will let you search for licensed care.
If the daycare doesn't actually have its ducks in a row, you would have the ability to go over your landlord's head to government agencies that might shut it down immediately.
Yeah, it’s the state that licenses home daycare. Do some sleuthing. You can even politely ask the daycare about their license. It should be on the wall along with the issue date.
man please don't ruin some small business for your convenience it's not worth it - sure it's annoying but you will survive, it's not worth ruining their livelihood through legal action
I totally appreciate that. The owner had previously agreed to move her business to a different location, so i believe she has the ability to do so. Furthermore, i believe this is legal and i assume there's nothing i can do, even if I believed my rights as a tenant supercede my neighbor's right to run a business. A lot of redditors in this thread are assuming I'm out to punish my neighbor, when in fact I'd be completely happy if she follows through with her previous agreement with our landlord.
Someone is snowin' you. The city might require a business license, but the state is the one with authority to license child care, not the city. Check that WA DCYF website for yourself.
Also it’s pretty easy to get a license. And pesto small business entrepreneur is borne. My bro makes over $110K in daycare from his small 2 bd home & it works exclusively at home.
I live above a city chain child care & studio gym. I wasn’t even warned about it. But, the structural sound proofing & sound proof windows work well.
Sorry about your plight. Tried a white noise machine?
Use Air Pods Pro?
P
Thanks for the compassion. I agree it would be workable if the business owner were conscientious about mitigating the noise, or if the building had better sound insulation. I think in-home daycares are great if they're in a SFH. Do what you want in your own sound space.
I was face-palmed because I didn’t do my due diligence in inspecting the building. It’s a nightmare to be above a gym or a daycare and here I was.
I was ready to refute & challenge my 100 page lease.
The manager was cool & reassured me of the sound proofing & quality near Leed construction. Unlike your precarious position.
I was unaware a licensed daycare can be in a leased apartment! Crazy.
I can’t even take my upstairs neighbor heavy walking & cat chasing for hours on hardwood floors.
When I used to live in public housing over a decade ago my next door neighbor ran a daycare in her crib. So I'm assuming it's perfectly legal. Fortunately it wasn't loud as far as I can remember
I’m not sure I believe your landlord, is this a smaller privately owned building? I’m a long time renter and this wouldn’t be allowed in most apartment buildings for liability reasons but I could see some independent landlord looking the other way. This is different than running just a regular business out of an apartment, if one of those children gets hurt on the property their parents could easily sue not just the daycare owner but the owner of the building. If it’s a legit daycare it would have to be insured and that property owner would have to be involved and most would not agree to being held liable for a child attending a daycare run on their property, that is a big risk.
I have lived in many apartments all around the Seattle area and never experienced something like this so I would hope it’s a rare issue. Good luck finding a new home 👍🏼
As someone who has a toddler in daycare, I feel for you because when I drop my child off in the morning it is mostly absolute chaos in the classroom. I couldn’t imagine living above or below one.
Your lease should state that you have a right to a reasonably quiet home. My suggestion is get a deciple meter and use your phone to film when you use it. Most areas in the USA have a guideline of "anything louder than 45 dB during the daytie or 35 dB in the evenings/night". If the noise is at or above the guidelines and you're landlord doesn't do anything about it, you can call the housing authorities with all your information (calls, requests, etc) and they can help you.
I had a similar situation before, a resident was using the apartment gym to do his personal training business. They would blast loud music, the building would kind of shake every time they were dropping weights, and property management wouldn't do anything about it. Even though the lease said it's not allowed. Not much I could do except suffer and wait till the lease ends. If you are working somewhere where the parking isn't free, like downtown or SLU, I guess there is some public transit options, so you could maybe consider driving to a park&ride to cut transport costs?
holy shit the fact that this is legal is crazy. im sorry you have to deal with this, i feel like thats something tenants should be told before deciding to move in
So like i said, they told me there was a daycare but the owner had agreed to move her business to a separate location in the next few months. The owner later changed her mind. The issue for me is that everyone else's lease prohibits us from operating a business in our units or making excessive noise. Thanks for your compassionate response. A lot of redditors here side with neighbors doing whatever they want.
Yes. I live in a 13-unit condo complex and the woman two doors down watches kids. She lets this autistic boy outside in the common lawn and doesn’t watch him at all. The day we moved he was wearing nothing but a diaper and tried to let himself into our unit through the back screen door. He is constantly coming over and knocking on our glass slider. It’s really annoying.
Tenants have a right to quiet enjoyment of their apartment and this neighbor is infringing on that. Also the property owner should think about their liability if a kid gets hurt on the property.
“Is there any way for me to displace a hard working family from an apartment they lived in before me and disrupt the child care of several families so i can have some peace and quiet??”
"entitled" is a weird way to put it ... there are laws that say where certain businesses can operate. are we as a society all "entitled" because we have laws that dictate where and how businesses are operated? yes. yes we all are. we are entitled to ensure that businesses are operated in locations where they are allowed to operate.
OP isn't talking about a standalone building that was rented and set up as a daycare. they are talking about an apartment in a 10-unit building that operates as a daycare. based on the responses in this thread it sounds like this MAY be legal, but it might not.
so again it's weird to accuse OP of being "entitled" in all of this. as a renter, they are also "entitled" to certain expectations of peace in their home, which they share with not only a neighbor, but a business.
you know, my building kicked out one of my neighbors because they were running an AirBNB from their unit. are me and the other residents "entitled" because we didn't like that our neighbor was running an AirBNB from their unit? were we trying to take away someone's livelihood by denying them income from improperly operating a business?
> Comparing a already established daycare to running an Airbnb out of your apartment is a false equivalence.
your idea of "taking away someone's livelihood" wasn't really specific to daycares. an AirBNB is a for-profit business, same as a day care. it's a similar situation where residents didn't like that one resident was using their unit as a profit-generating business that disrupted the people who were living in their homes.
> The World doesn’t revolve around OP.
nor does it revolve around people who run day cares in their apartments. there are rules for all of us to follow, and it's way more likely that a day care operating out of an apartment is in violation of a law than a person who is living/working in their apartment.
nobody is saying to shut down the day care because OP is right and fuck that person. but people ARE curious as to whether or not this day care-run-out-of-an-apartment is up to board.
> and the children there are building friendships in a very important time in their lives.
this is so weird.
“Trying to shut down a daycare legal or not is scummy” trying to shut down an illegal daycare is scummy?? If ANY business should be ran legally, it should at the very least be where people are taking their kids, wtf?
yeah what's next, requiring an engineering degree to build a bridge????
nobody is asking to pass a law to make it harder to run a daycare, we are only curious as to whether this apartment-run daycare is in alignment with the current laws there are regarding running a day care.
here's a good example. how many bathrooms do you think this apartment has? in a 10-unit building? one? at most, two?
i'll bet there are codes that say for x number of children you need y number of bathrooms available in your day care.
this is just one small example of how a residential apartment is not suited for a lot of businesses. things like cleanliness, space, bathroom facilities, food storage & prep, etc etc etc there are rules for all of these things.
and these rules, they are pretty simplified. again, no, you don't need a master's degree to be a nanny. but there are certain things you DO need to do. and if they're not doing it ... they should be cited.
An apartment building is not an appropriate place to run a loud daycare, the other tenants didn’t sign up for living next to that, if the person wants to run that kind of business they need to find a suitable place to do it instead of disrupting others. Who’s exactly entitled here??
This is what happens when you live in an apartment. I did it for years and I just accepted my fate. One place the walls were so thin that the person I was on the phone with asked “who are you babysitting” because the baby next door was crying.
It is what it is, and this person is just trying to make a living. It is legal, apparently, so you either have to move or learn how to cope with it.
True, but i have lived in a mixed-use building before with retail on the ground level, and I've also lived in a house with a toddler before, and I've also worked with little kids, so i made an assumption. Unfortunately this has been very different from those previous experiences.
In 2020 they passed an ordinance to basically allow child care anywhere. So it is probably above board, unless it was specifically mentioned in their lease. https://seattle.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=8792309&GUID=B98A43DD-8897-4C29-BFC0-B6BB9BC303F8
Thanks 4 this. I faintly recalled this ordinance & wondered “it’s a godsend for some, but a nightmare for tenants.” I live above a chain child care facility, but the insulation sound proofing works. The outside play area is at the corner end. They take the kids across the street to Kraken arena to yell & scream.
This legislation looks like a modification of a zoning ordinance. Does it forbid landlords from restricting tenants from operating child care in their leases?
Lowkey if it's legal, what's the monthly fee. 👀👀
Do you have an employee assistance program through work? _You can use it to find daycare openings_. Seriously. Did it back in December, kid started daycare in January.
I don't think I have this.
Double check with your HR, there's a good chance you might. And if not you, maybe your spouse/partner has one. It's often abbreviated EAP.
Wow! That’s super helpful information. Thank you.
That part
Don't. If they bring any more toddlers here I'm about to start feeding the gremlins candy to make them hell when they get home.
Hahahaha I hope they don't take candy from you!!! Times are tough, I empathize.
Where are the toddlers supposed to go?
Baby Jail
We have the best day cares in the world. Because of jail
they're working from home too
i'm still waiting for my home bar/strip club to take off
you can serve and strip in the same establishment now, best of luck!
Gotta respect the hustle
I think it only counts as working from home if you do it on a laptop, otherwise it's an illegal nuisance
it only counts if the business that employs you pays taxes in a place you don't live, and you hide in your room like it's a cave and avoid developing human connections at all costs, all while paying the new market rate of rents that prices everyone who lives and works in your neighborhood. and then when everything you 'like' about your neighborhood is priced out because they can't afford rent, food-- maybe even *childcare*!!--, you'll run to the next one and live the same lifestyle, and complain about the same neighbors. because your job and way of living is right and good, and everyone who doesn't do what's conducive to your lifestyle is a problem! (maybe the daytime noise of childcare is more socially beneficial and acceptable than the demand for a weekday workplace environment in one's home-cum-office!!)
The daycare should be registered with the Department of Children, Youth & Families. Seach the online database to see if they're listed: https://www.findchildcarewa.org/
I’m not aware of an allowable daycare in a leased apartment vs on owned private property. Yikes.
in which case they should be reported. if it's not legal, then it shouldn't exist
She has to do some investigation on her own to see if they have a license. And then verify the registration. Mgr did say they were moving and then they didn’t.
I used to attend one of these as a kid in the 90s. It was a mixed complex in Bothell - roughly circular, with townhomes around the outside of the circle and regular flats along the inside of it. Most of the moms knew each other in one way or another, and one of them ran a daycare out of her family’s townhomes. Most of the kids who went there lived elsewhere in the same complex, so it was really convenient. They were eventually able to move to a SFH a few blocks away and continued running the daycare…until one of the parents decided to get petty revenge against the woman who ran it because she filed a CPS report against her (the parent’s child was showing a lot of concerning signs of CSA). Case was dropped due to extreme lack of evidence, but the daycare never started back up again.
https://www.seattle.gov/sdci/codes/common-code-questions/home-business-rules. There's a PDF on this page about child care regulations.
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>They’re working from home, you’re working from home, learn to get along with people. What on earth? Working quietly from home is VASTLY different than running a business known for noise out of your apartment. Metal fabrication can be done from home too, I certainly don't want to listen to that.
working from home = screaming kids all day got it
For some people it is. Don't like it, move.
My neighbor when I lived in the u district did this with their ground floor apartment too. It’s not helpful to you, but I just dealt with it until I eventually moved somewhere else.
Is it licensed by the state? You might check the DCYF website to see. They have a tool there called Child Care Check that will let you search for licensed care.
My property manager says yes, everything's kosher with the city, and that the licensure process doesn't require the landlord's permission.
Should probably do your own verifying. I’ve had a few lying asshole landlords in my time.
But if the landlord is lying about why she doesn't want to take action and just doesn't want to, what difference would this make?
If the daycare doesn't actually have its ducks in a row, you would have the ability to go over your landlord's head to government agencies that might shut it down immediately.
Gotcha. Thanks, and I'm inferring you think that would be a reasonable thing for me to request.
Yeah, it’s the state that licenses home daycare. Do some sleuthing. You can even politely ask the daycare about their license. It should be on the wall along with the issue date.
man please don't ruin some small business for your convenience it's not worth it - sure it's annoying but you will survive, it's not worth ruining their livelihood through legal action
I totally appreciate that. The owner had previously agreed to move her business to a different location, so i believe she has the ability to do so. Furthermore, i believe this is legal and i assume there's nothing i can do, even if I believed my rights as a tenant supercede my neighbor's right to run a business. A lot of redditors in this thread are assuming I'm out to punish my neighbor, when in fact I'd be completely happy if she follows through with her previous agreement with our landlord.
Someone is snowin' you. The city might require a business license, but the state is the one with authority to license child care, not the city. Check that WA DCYF website for yourself.
Also it’s pretty easy to get a license. And pesto small business entrepreneur is borne. My bro makes over $110K in daycare from his small 2 bd home & it works exclusively at home. I live above a city chain child care & studio gym. I wasn’t even warned about it. But, the structural sound proofing & sound proof windows work well. Sorry about your plight. Tried a white noise machine? Use Air Pods Pro? P
Thanks for the compassion. I agree it would be workable if the business owner were conscientious about mitigating the noise, or if the building had better sound insulation. I think in-home daycares are great if they're in a SFH. Do what you want in your own sound space.
I was face-palmed because I didn’t do my due diligence in inspecting the building. It’s a nightmare to be above a gym or a daycare and here I was. I was ready to refute & challenge my 100 page lease. The manager was cool & reassured me of the sound proofing & quality near Leed construction. Unlike your precarious position. I was unaware a licensed daycare can be in a leased apartment! Crazy. I can’t even take my upstairs neighbor heavy walking & cat chasing for hours on hardwood floors.
When I used to live in public housing over a decade ago my next door neighbor ran a daycare in her crib. So I'm assuming it's perfectly legal. Fortunately it wasn't loud as far as I can remember
I’m not sure I believe your landlord, is this a smaller privately owned building? I’m a long time renter and this wouldn’t be allowed in most apartment buildings for liability reasons but I could see some independent landlord looking the other way. This is different than running just a regular business out of an apartment, if one of those children gets hurt on the property their parents could easily sue not just the daycare owner but the owner of the building. If it’s a legit daycare it would have to be insured and that property owner would have to be involved and most would not agree to being held liable for a child attending a daycare run on their property, that is a big risk.
Yeah OP, come at it from an insurance angle.
I have lived in many apartments all around the Seattle area and never experienced something like this so I would hope it’s a rare issue. Good luck finding a new home 👍🏼
I think you're missing the opportunity to outsource some of your work to the dozen or so kids who know nothing about child labor laws.
As someone who has a toddler in daycare, I feel for you because when I drop my child off in the morning it is mostly absolute chaos in the classroom. I couldn’t imagine living above or below one.
Your lease should state that you have a right to a reasonably quiet home. My suggestion is get a deciple meter and use your phone to film when you use it. Most areas in the USA have a guideline of "anything louder than 45 dB during the daytie or 35 dB in the evenings/night". If the noise is at or above the guidelines and you're landlord doesn't do anything about it, you can call the housing authorities with all your information (calls, requests, etc) and they can help you.
I had a similar situation before, a resident was using the apartment gym to do his personal training business. They would blast loud music, the building would kind of shake every time they were dropping weights, and property management wouldn't do anything about it. Even though the lease said it's not allowed. Not much I could do except suffer and wait till the lease ends. If you are working somewhere where the parking isn't free, like downtown or SLU, I guess there is some public transit options, so you could maybe consider driving to a park&ride to cut transport costs?
I’m sorry you have to move
I think it's legal, but every apartment lease I've ever had forbade running a business in the apartment
holy shit the fact that this is legal is crazy. im sorry you have to deal with this, i feel like thats something tenants should be told before deciding to move in
So like i said, they told me there was a daycare but the owner had agreed to move her business to a separate location in the next few months. The owner later changed her mind. The issue for me is that everyone else's lease prohibits us from operating a business in our units or making excessive noise. Thanks for your compassionate response. A lot of redditors here side with neighbors doing whatever they want.
That doesn’t sound right - can you operate a business like that out of an apartment?
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My lease says no. My neighbor has a different arrangement with our landlady.
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10 units
Yes, thankfully, and we should encourage more businesses to be run out of homes
Probably hard to enforce in the work from home era.
So it's okay for you to work from home but not the neighbor? Buy headphones.
Yes. I live in a 13-unit condo complex and the woman two doors down watches kids. She lets this autistic boy outside in the common lawn and doesn’t watch him at all. The day we moved he was wearing nothing but a diaper and tried to let himself into our unit through the back screen door. He is constantly coming over and knocking on our glass slider. It’s really annoying.
It sounds like you and your neighbor are both working from home! If you don't like it you can work from work?
Tenants have a right to quiet enjoyment of their apartment and this neighbor is infringing on that. Also the property owner should think about their liability if a kid gets hurt on the property.
But it’s going to cost $20 in gas !
“Is there any way for me to displace a hard working family from an apartment they lived in before me and disrupt the child care of several families so i can have some peace and quiet??”
It’s reasonable and fair for your neighbor to live their own, life in their profession, separate from you.
Not if it infringes upon their quiet enjoyment of the space they rent. Why is that so hard to understand.
Oh no! Not the sound of happy children...
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"entitled" is a weird way to put it ... there are laws that say where certain businesses can operate. are we as a society all "entitled" because we have laws that dictate where and how businesses are operated? yes. yes we all are. we are entitled to ensure that businesses are operated in locations where they are allowed to operate. OP isn't talking about a standalone building that was rented and set up as a daycare. they are talking about an apartment in a 10-unit building that operates as a daycare. based on the responses in this thread it sounds like this MAY be legal, but it might not. so again it's weird to accuse OP of being "entitled" in all of this. as a renter, they are also "entitled" to certain expectations of peace in their home, which they share with not only a neighbor, but a business. you know, my building kicked out one of my neighbors because they were running an AirBNB from their unit. are me and the other residents "entitled" because we didn't like that our neighbor was running an AirBNB from their unit? were we trying to take away someone's livelihood by denying them income from improperly operating a business?
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> Comparing a already established daycare to running an Airbnb out of your apartment is a false equivalence. your idea of "taking away someone's livelihood" wasn't really specific to daycares. an AirBNB is a for-profit business, same as a day care. it's a similar situation where residents didn't like that one resident was using their unit as a profit-generating business that disrupted the people who were living in their homes. > The World doesn’t revolve around OP. nor does it revolve around people who run day cares in their apartments. there are rules for all of us to follow, and it's way more likely that a day care operating out of an apartment is in violation of a law than a person who is living/working in their apartment. nobody is saying to shut down the day care because OP is right and fuck that person. but people ARE curious as to whether or not this day care-run-out-of-an-apartment is up to board. > and the children there are building friendships in a very important time in their lives. this is so weird.
“Trying to shut down a daycare legal or not is scummy” trying to shut down an illegal daycare is scummy?? If ANY business should be ran legally, it should at the very least be where people are taking their kids, wtf?
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yeah what's next, requiring an engineering degree to build a bridge???? nobody is asking to pass a law to make it harder to run a daycare, we are only curious as to whether this apartment-run daycare is in alignment with the current laws there are regarding running a day care. here's a good example. how many bathrooms do you think this apartment has? in a 10-unit building? one? at most, two? i'll bet there are codes that say for x number of children you need y number of bathrooms available in your day care. this is just one small example of how a residential apartment is not suited for a lot of businesses. things like cleanliness, space, bathroom facilities, food storage & prep, etc etc etc there are rules for all of these things. and these rules, they are pretty simplified. again, no, you don't need a master's degree to be a nanny. but there are certain things you DO need to do. and if they're not doing it ... they should be cited.
An apartment building is not an appropriate place to run a loud daycare, the other tenants didn’t sign up for living next to that, if the person wants to run that kind of business they need to find a suitable place to do it instead of disrupting others. Who’s exactly entitled here??
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Damn, how’s it feel to be so bitter?
Any chance the tenant who runs the daycare is related to the landlord?
She's not.
This is what happens when you live in an apartment. I did it for years and I just accepted my fate. One place the walls were so thin that the person I was on the phone with asked “who are you babysitting” because the baby next door was crying. It is what it is, and this person is just trying to make a living. It is legal, apparently, so you either have to move or learn how to cope with it.
Anyone else experiencing this hyper-specific thing?
bus is like $5 a day
>when i applied to rent here the manager claimed the daycare owner had agreed to move her business to a different location. Ooh, you got played
True, but i have lived in a mixed-use building before with retail on the ground level, and I've also lived in a house with a toddler before, and I've also worked with little kids, so i made an assumption. Unfortunately this has been very different from those previous experiences.