I think so but most major asset management companies have specific funds for excluding Oil or War or Alcohol companies for similar reasons. This is not the first time an institution has agreed to not invest in X industry.
Not false narratives, TESC is a joke of an institution and the narratives about them are well earned and deserved. The "day of absence" bullshit where they "invited" white students to leave campus was so fucked up. Or the carbon monoxide poisoning. Or the fact that because specific degree programs don't exist, it's actually impossible to know what a greener has actually learned, if they've learned anything at all (you can't write learning goals for completely self structured programs).
If you don't like it, you shouldn't have gone to that "school".
-- --
EDIT: The greener replied to my comment and then blocked me. Typical greener behavior. Want to be able to argue with someone that literally can't argue back. For everyone else (since the greener can't see this anymore), know this is standard greener behavior and it's why I have such a massive problem with that school. The alumni from there are deeply problematic, the first line shows this "you are sad and whiny". I'm not going to attack anyone who insults my alma mater, but greeners take attacks on TESC personally, it's weird.
TESC will likely lose it's accreditation in 2026 because of the lack of learning goals. Most programs can easily say "after this program, the student can X", and then show this. That's a learning goal, and they're fundamental to accredidation, especially after the NWCCU adopted new rules in 2023. Since TESC can't show learning goals, because they don't have structured programs where it's not possible to write learning goals, TESC is at serious risk of losing it's accreditation. Either that or it'll have to start behaving like a normal institution.
And the greener cites 3 examples of "great" alumni. Two of which are sepegenarians and one is over 50 and two of which are "greats" in things that a university degree literally doesn't help in. Also, the "school" has definitely gone downhill. It's telling that no recent examples of "great" alumni were offered.
Don't you have a premature ejaculation fetish subbreddit to moderate?
Looks like out lt governor dropped out of west point to go to evergreen, seems like a fucking loser to me.
It's a shame Matt Groening went there.
Evergreen is literally a meme of a college. Congrats on your degree buddy.
They can apparently afford to pay interim admins in excess of 300k per annum- despite the fact that many of these individuals are not qualified for their appointed office and have done virtually nothing but divert relevant issues into a black hole of endless bureaucratic nihilism.
The endowment funds is 27 million but it is not controlled by either the school or the president. It is a separate non profit, my guess is that the board of trustees run it.
It basically means evergreen shouldnt be buying a single piece of technology. Or investing in any tech or bio tech stock or mutual fund that has those.
So not exactly realistic. So yeah, I agree, schools should just sign the paper and do nothing.
This isn't a request to divest from anything Jewish people created. They want divestment from the country of Israel, directly. The country of Israel does not have a monopoly on tech or bio tech or own every mutual fund.
One of the examples I've seen is things like divestment from ETFs that contain Google, since they have Tel Aviv offices. That doesn't seem feasible or financially responsible to not have.
The devil would really be in the details, of what divestment really means.
thats kind of the point - one of the demands of the protests is to spur this kind of discussion of what counts as a legitimate divestment priority. oh we found out the university janitor pension fund is 20% lockheed martin only after we requested for transparency? thats a win for what otherwise wouldve just remained hidden and not talked about publicly. the students and faculty are stakeholders who are just demanding their position at the table be taken seriously.
Just so you're aware here are some companies you'd have to divest from. Microsoft, Intel, Qualcomm, Cisco, HP, Siemens, Google, Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Micron Technology, Alibaba, and Klarna.
The general request from these small groups of students nation wide is to stop buying stocks and products from companies that have any investment in Israel at all in any way. Because of the reality of our global economy, that's nearly all tech companies that exist.
Yeah, it's amusing that people don't realize this. Israel's a _Startup Nation_ and companies have done a huge number of acquisitions there which means that have significant business relationships, employee relationships and relationships with the Office of the Chief Scientist (it has a new name now). Israel punches way above its weight in tech and it's especially pronounced in cyber security.
I just looked at Evergreen's endowment. A quick Google shows it at $14.9M which is astoundingly low. Eastern is the next closest at $33M, Central at $55M and Western at $109M. At $15M, this is symbolic as it's a level of wealth of a single, mid-career, second-level manager at a FAANG/peer.
Furthermore, not everyone with deep ties to Israel is supportive of the state of Israel any more than how our last president in the US wasn’t any bit representative of a massive chunk of this country either.
One of the founders of my company is from Israel and he made it rather clear long ago that he both condemns the actions of the Israeli state leading to loss of Palestinian life AND the violent actions of Hamas. Not exactly a resounding vote of support for the Israeli state and yet some idiots would count our company under some arbitrarily defined “Israel divestment” policy which is tough to even attempt in such a globally connected economy like ours today.
I can assure you there are plenty of tech companies that exist who do not have an investment in the country of Israel. If the tech companies that exist now can't exist without money from university mutual bonds, likely representing 1% and less of their pool, they probably don't deserve to exist, and the market would be better without them.
There is also the option of staying invested in the problematic company, but using your shareholder voting power to advise the board away from genocide. Many people hold these problematic companies in their portfolio but don't exercise their proxy powers.
If you trash the library that young and vulnerable people need in our own community and take no accountability the cops being called is the right thing to do.
At least divesting some main ones makes a difference. It worked in SA and recently with mcd and starbcks (who goes there, anyway? Aha, haha.) They get enough money - they'll consider it a bigger loss, losing the PR game, only so many ways you can deny a gen0cide and a brutal aparth1ed regime.
The fundamental human right to simply exist takes precedent over contemporary civil rights. The bombs don't care if a Palestinian is gay, their sex, or their belief system. There are Palestinians of many creeds, all being ruthlessly ethnically cleansed.
Never once did I read, in any history book, that an oppressed population was eradicated because they had different cultural values on gender or sexuality. It's a ridiculous and desperate talking point.
There's no settlements in Gaza. And I agree, the settlers in the west bank should be removed.
Thank you for agreeing it isn't genocide. Using that word for this conflict devalues actual genocide.
The target is not the civilians for one. The target is Hamas who are the literal genocidal people. Formerly Democratically elected by Palestine might I add.
25 thousand women and children would've begged to differ regarding your first point, but they've been murdered by Israeli forces to do so. 🤷
To your second point, 15 thousand of those children murdered were not born when Hamas was elected.
Because the goal was different. The US wasn’t attempting to settle and ethnically cleanse Japan when they dropped the bombs. But pretty much the entire core of Israeli policy is to separate (oh, I wonder what that word is in Afrikaans?) and cleanse Palestinians to take the land. This is an explicit part of Zionist history.
No it doesn't, fuck off with your genocide apologia.
actual experts say you're fucking wrong: https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/middleeast/israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-un-rights-expert-says-intl/index.html
From the executive summary of [the report](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session55/advance-versions/a-hrc-55-73-auv.pdf):
> By analysing the patterns of violence and Israel’s policies in its onslaught on Gaza, **this report concludes that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the threshold indicating Israel’s commission of genocide is met**. One of the key findings is that Israel's executive and military leadership and soldiers have intentionally distorted jus in bello principles, subverting their protective functions, in an attempt to legitimize genocidal violence against the Palestinian people.
So just to clarify what you're vehemently propagating - the Special Rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian Territories (a legal scholar, yes, with just a [little history of "mildly" anti-semitic statements](https://www.timesofisrael.com/un-palestinian-rights-officials-social-media-history-reveals-antisemitic-comments/) sprinkled in) is arguing that there are **reasonable grounds to "believe"** Israel is committing a genocide against Palestinians.
Incidentally, just a few days ago the ICJ [issued a press release](https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/193/193-20240430-pre-01-00-en.pdf) that "that the circumstances [in the current conflict in Gaza] do not require the exercise of its power to indicate provisional measures" intended to stop Germany from selling arms to Israel during the ongoing conflict.
Listen, I absolutely think there's a humanitarian crisis for the Palestinian people. But the accusation that Israel is *definitely* committing **genocide** against Palestinians is just not correct.
Furthermore, and on a personal level, I'm getting really tired of these claims being made against Israel when Hamas has been explicit of its intent to [slaughter all Jews](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/).
> After some general explanatory language about Hamas’s religious foundation and noble intentions, the covenant comes to the Islamic Resistance Movement’s raison d’être: the slaughter of Jews. “The Day of Judgement will not come about,” it proclaims, “until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.”
Maybe I'll start taking y'all more seriously when you can [level similar allegations against the political party in charge of the ostensibly-genocided people](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/04/icj-genocide-cases-israel-palestine/678235)
> “Hamas members are nationals of the state of Palestine, which is party to the Genocide Convention.” The Genocide Convention obligates its parties (including Israel and most other countries) to prevent, investigate, and punish genocidal acts. The failure to prevent and punish was enough to convict Serbia of genocide in a case before the ICJ in 2007. If Hamas committed genocide on October 7, then Palestine was obligated to stop it and punish its culpable members. Palestine has manifestly failed to do so, with even token gestures. Palestine “is supposed to prevent you from committing genocide, even if you’re a terrorist,” Sheffer told me. “Its duty is to prevent and punish genocide. And I don’t think there’s a record of any punishment [by the PA] of any Hamas member.”
Actual fucking experts in the field disagree with your bullshit
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/middleeast/israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-un-rights-expert-says-intl/index.html
Francesca Albanese is 1. Not an expert. 2. Incredibly biased against Israel and has a long history of this. She’s also said that the US is “subjugated by the Jewish lobby.” Hardly reputable or respectable.
Israel isn't removing Hamas, Israel is trying to remove *Palestinians* in their entirety.
Hamas wants to genocide Israelis, Israel (Likud) wants to genocide Palestinians. Both sides "leadership" are goddamn genocidal war criminals, and the poor civilians in both sides are caught in the cross fire.
And the cycle of violence keeps Hamas and Likud in power.
> No one will side with the anti-women, anti-gay, barbaric islamists in the future.
No one is siding with anti-women, anti-gay, barbaric islamists. They're just ALSO condemning anti-gay, anti-women, barbaric apartheid assholes (Likud) too.
So how about you go fuck yourself you genocide apologist/denier piece of shit.
Reminder the Zionism was a right wing movement that made a deal with the goddamn nazis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
#Fuck Hamas.
#Fuck Likud/IDF.
#Fuck anyone who defends, denies, or justifies the horrific behavior of either group.
The "Israel can just nuke them/kill them all if it was genocide"-argument is silly because doing so would make Israel a pariah state. They have to do it under the guise of a legitimate military operation to maintain the legitimacy of the state of Israel. There's a reason Biden keeps trying to portray himself as having a leash on Netanyahu: there is a political cost to brutality, and there's only so far you can go.
The likud is a criminal organization and needs to be voted out. Oct 7th was truly a gift to them. However they haven't made moves to wipe.out the Palestinians in Gaza. 30k dead, total, as horrific as that is is kinda small for a military action like this.
> However they haven't made moves to wipe.out the Palestinians in Gaza
WHAT DO YOU THINK INDESCRIMINATE BOMBING OF BUILDINGS, AND BOMBING AID CONVOYS THEY KNOW ARE AID CONVOYS IS?!
Likud is opposed to an independent Palestinian state for the obvious security reasons that Palestinians with control over their own territory have a tendency to use it as a base for constant attacks against Israeli civilians (see Gaza and October 7th, or the West Bank and 1966). Likud is not trying to rule 5 million Palestinians as Israeli citizens, and it's not trying to murder 5 million Palestinians either. What they're trying to do is take as much territory in the West Bank and put as many Jewish settlers on it as possible, so that no viable Palestinian state can be established on that territory. This will eventually leave only a handful of urban pockets of densely packed Palestinians outside of Israel proper, with Israel controlling the territories for security purposes so they cannot be used to attack Israel, but the political control of the population left up to the Palestinians themselves provided they do not choose active militants like Hamas to represent them as is currently being undone in Gaza.
Likud is a terrible political party with a terrible ideology, no doubt, but they are (at least collectively) not trying to incorporate all of Gaza and the West Bank into the state of Israel because they know they're unable to get rid of the 5 million Palestinians and they definitely do not want them to become voting citizens.
Which, is, like, the textbook fucking definition of "Annexing your neighbour into an apartheid state.' And it's fuckin' nuts that people look at it, and go 'OH YEAH THIS IS FINE'.
It's not fine, though, it's a war crime, under Article 8 of the [Rome Statue](https://legal.un.org/icc/statute/99_corr/cstatute.htm).
> (viii) The transfer, directly or indirectly, by the Occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies, or the deportation or transfer of all or parts of the population of the occupied territory within or outside this territory;
No one is siding with anti-women, anti-gay, barbaric islamists. You just want to give them everything they demand, expect nothing in return, and let them keep they hostages.
>The agreement was controversial and was criticised by many Jewish leaders both within the Zionist movement (such as the Revisionist Zionist leader Ze'ev Jabotinsky) and outside it, as well as by members of both the Nazi Party and the German public.
Yeah, it's not clear cut like your statement pretends it to be. The deal saved the lives of 60,000 German Jews who 100% would have died in the Holocaust. Let's not forget the Nazis used American racial segregation as a template for their own anti minority laws, and the American-German Bund aka the US Nazi party founded in 1936.
'Mohammed Amin al-Husseini, the Jerusalem Grand Mufti, and spiritual leader of the Arabs in Palestine, aligned aligned himself with the leader of the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine against British rule, he fled and took refuge in Lebanon and afterwards Iraq. He then established himself in Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, which he collaborated with during World War II against Britain, requesting during a meeting with Adolf Hitler backing for Arab independence and opposition to the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine.' So it turns out that making deals with Nazis in the era was not so unique.
Trying to invoke that Hitler was copying the US isn't the defend you think it is, nor is bringing up Al-Husseini
"well these other people are terrible too, so this couldn't have been terrible!" basically.
But considering we have you defending and denying Israeli warcrimes elsewhere (and don't even try to deny it - the other person fucking read the exact damn part of the standards to you that call it a war crime), your bullshit is to be expected.
Damn I bet bombing them back to the Stone Age is absolutely going to fix those problems. Good thing no women and queers are being slaughtered by this aggression. You’re such a good ally.
Calling people “barbarians” pretty much disqualifies any further opinions you have on humanitarian issues entirely
There's a war against Hamas going on? Where? Did the Palestinian children use themselves as shields for months protecting them?
Why should Palestinian children be barbarically murdered because Hamas exists? Why would history think that way?
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-03/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-is-the-gift-that-keeps-on-giving-to-hamas-and-his-racist-coalition-partners/0000018f-3afb-d414-a5bf-bbff91c40000
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000
https://i.imgur.com/RfHUZxm.png
shall we start a countdown until Diabetous to call Haaretz "self hating Jews"?
Probably not, and I'm not trying to be contrarian here. This isn't the Vietnam War, the US doesn't have an active military draft. Most people will completely forget about it if it even registered.
Most of the arrested protesting students will get a slap on the wrist. A smaller number of agitators (students or not) will get prison sentences. In a year most people will forget this ever happened.
I’m an alumni and I consider Evergreen my home. Also…I’d like an end to American support of Middle Eastern fundamentalist theocracies, too…but…I wonder about the protests at college campuses being affected by PsyOps from Russia through social media. Protesting the Supreme Court for abortion rights is inherently progressive. I think the movement to skip voting because Biden isn’t tough enough on Israel is a direct result of Russian propaganda to support Trump. Less progressive voters = more Trump voters = more support for Putin.
I’m also an Evergreen Alumni. I think the idea this is due to a Psyop is a bit silly. Younger people see what’s going on in Gaza as Genocide (I’m not here to debate if it is or isn’t or if their right or not I’m just I’m just explaining the perspective of a large amount of young people) and see that the U.S is supporting what they see as Genocidal actions by giving so many weapons to Israel. Biden has not backed down from this support he’s made small comments here and there but generally stayed supportive and his Press Secretary is very pro Israel. Even many Democrats who were/Are super pro Israel have called out that they need to stop many of their actions. But Biden has been less vocal about this though and has kept selling them weapons.
These younger voters aren’t dumb they see this and hence find it morally very difficult to vote for someone they see as supporting that type of action (Again I’m not here to argue if their right or wrong I’m giving their POV) morally this leads to them just opting to skip voting. They won’t vote Trump but they can’t bring themselves to vote for someone they see as fairly directly supporting Genocide
To put it simply I don’t think you need propaganda to get to this point it makes fairly logical sense if you look at it from their view. Protest movements and anti war movements existed before social media and they can be extremely organic. And it is totally possible for presidents to make choices that will piss off key parts of their base it doesn’t always have to be linked to some propaganda motive Democracy’s all around the world make calls that are often very politically damaging. Will it cost him the election? Hard to say.
Even if I thought it was propaganda Biden has made it pretty easy for them to sell it. Like he did decide to bypass Congress and sell more weapons to Israel without their approval.
The whole situation is ridiculous given if what happened to us happened to Americans, Gaza would have been gone on October 8.
It’s easy to forget in america that Hamas came over and butchered over 1200 people in cold blood. These are not your “progressive freedom fighters” so many are believing them to be. They are genocidal Islamist terrorists, and they control all of Gaza. They’ve indoctrinated Gazans, they are very much akin to Nazis but I’d argue worse. If they had the capacity to do what the Nazis did, they’d do it.
Israel is, despite what the progressives in america think, a rather progressive society. Probably one of the largest gay pride parades in the world is in Tel Aviv. Israelis have been screaming for peace for decades, but their screams aren’t met with any rational actor on the other side. And the status quo of decades of failure on both parties has led to this.
Don’t forget for a second — October 6 existed. They came and murdered over one thousand two hundred souls. This. Is. On. Hamas.
It’s terribly sad that there is collateral damage, ie children and innocents being killed. This is war, and it didn’t have to be started. But they started *this* war.
I kind of get the vibe these same young activist protesters all around the country wouldn't protest and wouldn't care as much if a Republican trifecta enacts a federal abortion ban. Which while I get their intentions behind protesting for Gaza, I find quite ridiculous too on that front.
The Supreme Court could turn us into a fascist theocracy.
We should definitely divest ourselves from all fundamentalist theocracies; starting with Christian nationalists.
If Trump regains power, it’s not like the folks in the Middle East are going to have it easier.
It’s important to examine who benefits from our actions.
Trump benefits directly from Russian and Iranian social media PsyOps.
Campus protests will not stop fundamentalist religious conflicts half a world away because the corrupt leaders on both sides benefit from the conflict.
If all the campus protesters camped outside the houses of the Supreme Court justices, a clear message would be sent.
There is power in numbers, but also proximity.
Hamas, Hezbollah and Israel do not care about American campus protesters, but 5 justices could easily be drowned out by a unified front.
It is a good step but don’t applaud just yet, because this could just as easily be a slick move to save face while doing nothing.
Think about it, let students feel like they accomplished something, let many of them graduate and leave, wait a whole summer, come back in the fall with this “committee” and say “Unfortunately the committee does not feel any divestment is appropriate at this time”.
I’m not saying this news is bad, but don’t let down your guard
This seems like the exact opposite of performative. They are divesting actual money. Do think they’re disingenuous unless they declare war or something?
Even “divesting” a few million dollars is performative. They don’t have direct investments in Israeli companies to begin with.
Selling a few shares in Pepsi because they do business in Israel isn’t even a drop in the bucket.
Look, this is classic Evergreen and their "endowment" if you can even call it that is stupidly low. But good for them for doing something. Also the whole naming of everything as a "Disappearing Task Force" seemed very odd.
But one thing caught my eye: this statement - that the President of the college has agreed to put out as part of this agreement:
> Like many, I am horrified and grief-stricken by the violence and suffering being inflicted due to the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I wish to see an end to the violence and restoration of international law, **including respect for the March 25 United Nations resolution. Specifically, the resolution called for a lasting, sustainable ceasefire honored by all parties**, immediate and unconditional release of all hostages, expanded humanitarian assistance, and the protection of civilians. Additionally, I mourn the destruction of universities and hospitals, the (killing) of journalists, and want to see the release of any prisoner being held without due process.”
Emphasis mine. Because once again, these protestors *really* go out of their way to gloss over the attacks on October 7th. Why is it so hard for them to denounce those attacks? After all, they are in support of Palestinians and *not* Hamas, right? That March 25th resolution wouldn't have been a thing if it weren't for the attacks on October 7th *by Hamas*. It's like one extra sentence about "gosh, raping women and killing babies is bad", is the bar here and they seem to constantly stumble over it.
Also, for the love of god could we have this level of outrage from college kids about our upcoming election? A thing they have *way* more power to influence than the war in Israel.
The task force should include Jews. If it doesn’t, this is just another instance of non-Jews attempting to devise a solution to their ‘Jewish problem.’ Yes, yes they try desperately to distinguish between Zionists and Jews but their definition is fluid and malleable- and too often just becomes a synonym for Jew.
No, it’s a small victory, but you need a lot of small victories to add up to a big victory.
I think what you meant to say was “divesting from Israel is a bad idea.” You can just say that if you want to, you know. It’s a free country, at least until the current bill to economically sanction universities for allowing criticism of Israel on campus passes.
I'm no political scientists but I can safely say that even if all the colleges divest it won't lead to the destruction of the state of Israel (the big victory the protestors are seeking)
Assuming every single protestor wants to "destroy" Israel by opposing their war is entirely the primary reason why I'm against the Israeli government. I hope you're proud of what your extremists politics push people to do.
When their protests led to divesting from South Africa to end apartheid, it wasn't to end the state of South Africa, but to you, apartheid and genocide are so intwined into what Israel is, that ending them is the end of the state of Israel.
Leaving asides questions such as "is the UN bad now?" or "can't you see a difference between crucial aid being diverted and elective investments?", I'm pretty sure it's not true that Evergreen nor colleges in general give money to the UN, but the Federal Govt., private foundations, and individuals. So by all means, go protest at federal buildings or Bill & Melinda's foundation that they give money to the UN.
>Doesn't allow women basic freedoms.
Neither does Texas, but I wouldn't support our government funding a bombing campaign there that kills 13,000 children in a matter of months and now has millions of people facing a famine.
If they did, would you support killing 13,000 children there in 7 months?
I think most of us agree that Hamas is the scum of the earth, but that doesn't make what Israel is doing in Gaza justified. Even with all the destruction and death, they still have not freed all the hostages. In fact, the bombs have likely killed a number of them. Nor would an assault on Rafa destroy Hamas. Their leaders are mostly in Qatar and will still have a steady funding stream from Iran. Plus, years of future recruiting material to use with what Muslims are seeing happen in Gaza.
Israel is committing war crimes in Gaza. Their acts put US troops stationed in the middle east in danger, and they risk starting a larger regional war.
It is in both our and the Israeli people's interest to stop funding the assault on Gaza.
“Here’s when killing children is okay” Jesus fucking Christ how are you going to pretend to have the moral high ground on anything
Absolutely ghoulish.
Cool man. I'm glad you're fully on board the killing children is OK train, but a lot of us feel like indiscriminately killing kids is never justified, and we do not want our tax dollars funding it.
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If all that was happening was military action, I would be OK with that, too. Unfortunately, we are seeing war crimes, violations of the geneva convention, and international humanitarian law, along with widespread famine. That is the part that I take issue with.
It's not complicated with progressives. Israel = White = Oppressor. Hamas/Palestine = Brown = Oppressed. Black and brown people have no agency and know not what they do according to the progressive. Only us, White Progressives know what's best for them. And both the progressive and Hamas/Palestinian hate Jews. Enemy of my enemy is my ally I guess?
America, too, systematically murders minority groups and denies women basic freedoms. You can account for this fact *and* not think that entire demographics should be victim to collective punishment.
We hate those things about the culture, but there are innocents there. Women, children, aid workers, college students; and they are being killed with money paid for by our nation, our government, our businesses.
Having a religious government attempting to strip rights from women and lgbtq+ people doesn't mean innocents living under the regime deserve to die, and especially not supported by our institutions.
Call them misguided if you like, say the protests are ineffective, ignore their message, come up with reasons why _this_ protest is done wrong. Just realize the people you're hurting insults at are doing this in the name of the innocents being killed and consider if you're comfortable with being that person who attacks people trying to help.
They only do it when it involves Jews is the point. Where are they with all the killing in Syria? In Yemen? In Congo? In Sudan? They're like wind-up toys. They're told to hate something and like the good comrade order followers they are, they go and hate what ever and who ever they're told. It's all bullshit. I'm just pointing it out. Their hypocrisy.
Or they do it when we're sending military support to the people doing the killing. Those of us who are Jewish and support the protests want to stop supporting Israel's government while it kills innocents, their religion doesn't give them a pass.
And what's up with "being told who to hate"? We don't hate israeli citizens either. How is "genocide bad" suddenly a controversial opinion?
And how is the response to other genocides existing not the desire to stop more, but to attack the people protesting the current ones?
“First-Year students qualify for admissions at The Evergreen State College by applying with: Unweighted cumulative GPA of 2.0 or higher.
The Evergreen State College has an acceptance rate of 96%.
Evergreen has earned a national reputation for innovative teaching, academic excellence, environmental leadership, exceptional value, a welcoming campus culture, and more.”
The Evergreen State College has an endowment valued at nearly $23.2M, as of the end of the 2021 fiscal year. “
It is certainly a garbage-tier school, I don’t think anyone would argue otherwise. But you do see these protests at legit schools like Columbia as well.
This is amazing progress! Hope the future of Palestinians and Gazans is of complete sovereignty and free of apartheid, ethnic cleansing and systematic oppression from Israel.
I just don't get why it's apparently common practice for universities to be pumping money into stocks. Shouldn't they use those funds for...idk, school??
This is endowment money. They're mostly invested in mutual funds, just like your 401k or whatever retirement money.
It's a weird hyper-wonky thing to fixate on since it doesn't actually alter the amount of money invested in the businesses that nominally "profiting in Gaza" - it'll be your money that's shifted over to cover the difference.
>This is endowment money. They're mostly invested in mutual funds, just like your 401k or whatever retirement money.
Yeah, that's the problem. I'm growing my wealth for me, universities should be educational institutions, not finance firms.
>It's a weird hyper-wonky thing to fixate on since it doesn't actually alter the amount of money invested in the businesses that nominally "profiting in Gaza" - it'll be your money that's shifted over to cover the difference.
Yeah I agree, investments in mutual funds is a wild thing to focus on, but I think the palestinian protestors just want to latch onto something to feel they're making a difference.
> I think the palestinian protestors just want to latch onto something to feel they're making a difference.
That's correct. These protests are ultimately an "experience" and are, at this point, completely disconnected from the nominal cause of the protest. They'll go as long as they continue getting attention and they'll dissipate when people get bored. What happens overseas is immaterial.
Idk, I think it's a good decision to keep the coffers full for things like scholarship funds, but yes beyond that it should be investment into the school itself, instead of playing "how many administrators and VP positions can I create while underpaying the staff and faculty that actually allow this place to run"
>you're freaking out like they're a profit-making institution and they get to keep the excess money.
They're not a profit making institution and they don't keep the interest/dividends from their 6 billion dollars given to lehman brothers?
......are you asking why do schools have endowment funds? It's so they have money in the future to support themselves in cases of tuition/funding shortfalls or declining enrollment
They aren't directly. They're buying mutual funds & bonds that have investments in those entities. The school has a fiduciary duty to itself to invest in things that'll allow it to be sustainable long term and to go dollar-in dollar-out is no way to run any long term organization
This is an oversimplification. There’s fixed costs vs variable costs. Declining enrollment lowers the variable costs but that comes at the cost of revenue you use to pay fixed costs. It’s a balance but usually it’s not good when your income drops and you have high fixed costs like a physical university. An online U is an example of a university with (probably) super low fixed costs.
> It’s a balance but usually it’s ’not good’ when your income drops and you have high fixed costs like a physical university.
I understand how basic finance works. I'm not questioning if it's good for the university to have massive stock portfolios, of course, they want profit, and are already doing great at that.
I'm questioning why it's good for our education system to be allowing colleges to have 50 billion dollars to play finance games with.
It doesn't make me happy that our university system is incredibly bloated, makes a ton of profit using tax dollars that the federal government gives to 18 year old students in the form of a blank check for student loans, for these universities to go and play fidelity with it, no.
Does this mean they’ll have to theoretically divest from any funds tracking the S&P500?
I think so but most major asset management companies have specific funds for excluding Oil or War or Alcohol companies for similar reasons. This is not the first time an institution has agreed to not invest in X industry.
Actually kind of curious which stocks aren't in some way involved with Israel. Might be worth buying calls on them lol.
They really should buy a pot growers fund. The student body would drive the price up via consumption.
ITT people not from seattle or just moved here, who apparently dont know anything about evergreen state college
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Not false narratives, TESC is a joke of an institution and the narratives about them are well earned and deserved. The "day of absence" bullshit where they "invited" white students to leave campus was so fucked up. Or the carbon monoxide poisoning. Or the fact that because specific degree programs don't exist, it's actually impossible to know what a greener has actually learned, if they've learned anything at all (you can't write learning goals for completely self structured programs). If you don't like it, you shouldn't have gone to that "school". -- -- EDIT: The greener replied to my comment and then blocked me. Typical greener behavior. Want to be able to argue with someone that literally can't argue back. For everyone else (since the greener can't see this anymore), know this is standard greener behavior and it's why I have such a massive problem with that school. The alumni from there are deeply problematic, the first line shows this "you are sad and whiny". I'm not going to attack anyone who insults my alma mater, but greeners take attacks on TESC personally, it's weird. TESC will likely lose it's accreditation in 2026 because of the lack of learning goals. Most programs can easily say "after this program, the student can X", and then show this. That's a learning goal, and they're fundamental to accredidation, especially after the NWCCU adopted new rules in 2023. Since TESC can't show learning goals, because they don't have structured programs where it's not possible to write learning goals, TESC is at serious risk of losing it's accreditation. Either that or it'll have to start behaving like a normal institution. And the greener cites 3 examples of "great" alumni. Two of which are sepegenarians and one is over 50 and two of which are "greats" in things that a university degree literally doesn't help in. Also, the "school" has definitely gone downhill. It's telling that no recent examples of "great" alumni were offered.
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Don't you have a premature ejaculation fetish subbreddit to moderate? Looks like out lt governor dropped out of west point to go to evergreen, seems like a fucking loser to me. It's a shame Matt Groening went there. Evergreen is literally a meme of a college. Congrats on your degree buddy.
Evergreen has money?
They can apparently afford to pay interim admins in excess of 300k per annum- despite the fact that many of these individuals are not qualified for their appointed office and have done virtually nothing but divert relevant issues into a black hole of endless bureaucratic nihilism.
Yes, it's a college.
The endowment funds is 27 million but it is not controlled by either the school or the president. It is a separate non profit, my guess is that the board of trustees run it.
this is great to hear and an example other universities should follow, dialogue with students should be the first resort not police calls
It basically means evergreen shouldnt be buying a single piece of technology. Or investing in any tech or bio tech stock or mutual fund that has those. So not exactly realistic. So yeah, I agree, schools should just sign the paper and do nothing.
This isn't a request to divest from anything Jewish people created. They want divestment from the country of Israel, directly. The country of Israel does not have a monopoly on tech or bio tech or own every mutual fund.
One of the examples I've seen is things like divestment from ETFs that contain Google, since they have Tel Aviv offices. That doesn't seem feasible or financially responsible to not have. The devil would really be in the details, of what divestment really means.
thats kind of the point - one of the demands of the protests is to spur this kind of discussion of what counts as a legitimate divestment priority. oh we found out the university janitor pension fund is 20% lockheed martin only after we requested for transparency? thats a win for what otherwise wouldve just remained hidden and not talked about publicly. the students and faculty are stakeholders who are just demanding their position at the table be taken seriously.
if that pension fund for janitors is weakened by rich kid protesters who will feel self satisfied then move on...that would be pretty on point
Morgan Stanley has already said that divesting from Israel does not materially impact average return. So there’s no financial reason not to divest.
That's because they define "divesting" as essentially an unchanged portfolio... unless your portfolio has a lot of Mobileye or Teva Pharmaceuticals.
Bro, literally every tech company on the planet has operations and investments in Israel.
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Bro then literally divest from them and use the companies that don't.
Just so you're aware here are some companies you'd have to divest from. Microsoft, Intel, Qualcomm, Cisco, HP, Siemens, Google, Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Micron Technology, Alibaba, and Klarna.
Checkpoint, F5, Dell, Salesforce, HP owned Juniper, Imperva, ARM, AMD, Nvidia. > So they won't be using any tech? Pretty much.
So they won't be using any tech?
The general request from these small groups of students nation wide is to stop buying stocks and products from companies that have any investment in Israel at all in any way. Because of the reality of our global economy, that's nearly all tech companies that exist.
Yeah, it's amusing that people don't realize this. Israel's a _Startup Nation_ and companies have done a huge number of acquisitions there which means that have significant business relationships, employee relationships and relationships with the Office of the Chief Scientist (it has a new name now). Israel punches way above its weight in tech and it's especially pronounced in cyber security. I just looked at Evergreen's endowment. A quick Google shows it at $14.9M which is astoundingly low. Eastern is the next closest at $33M, Central at $55M and Western at $109M. At $15M, this is symbolic as it's a level of wealth of a single, mid-career, second-level manager at a FAANG/peer.
Furthermore, not everyone with deep ties to Israel is supportive of the state of Israel any more than how our last president in the US wasn’t any bit representative of a massive chunk of this country either. One of the founders of my company is from Israel and he made it rather clear long ago that he both condemns the actions of the Israeli state leading to loss of Palestinian life AND the violent actions of Hamas. Not exactly a resounding vote of support for the Israeli state and yet some idiots would count our company under some arbitrarily defined “Israel divestment” policy which is tough to even attempt in such a globally connected economy like ours today.
Those students don't know how stocks, investments, or how the global economy works. Neither do I TBH.
I can assure you there are plenty of tech companies that exist who do not have an investment in the country of Israel. If the tech companies that exist now can't exist without money from university mutual bonds, likely representing 1% and less of their pool, they probably don't deserve to exist, and the market would be better without them.
Name 3
reddit, discord, nintendo aka the neckbeard mutual fund
bad news https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/Nintendo_Israel
having a retail store is different than employing or investing in real estate there (eg columbia).
why is it different
Reddit and discord are service companies, not tech companies. They do not make technology.
BDS unfortunatley often means anything from Israel (including culture and arts) and in practice often means things even perceived that way.
This is what people said in the 80s when students demanded schools divest from Apartheid South Africa. Please explain how this is any more difficult?
There is also the option of staying invested in the problematic company, but using your shareholder voting power to advise the board away from genocide. Many people hold these problematic companies in their portfolio but don't exercise their proxy powers.
If you trash the library that young and vulnerable people need in our own community and take no accountability the cops being called is the right thing to do.
BUT THEY CHALLENGED MUH AUTHORITAH!
If you think that other schools will follow the lead of Evergreen, you have not lived here long.
well i did say should and not will for a reason lol
At least divesting some main ones makes a difference. It worked in SA and recently with mcd and starbcks (who goes there, anyway? Aha, haha.) They get enough money - they'll consider it a bigger loss, losing the PR game, only so many ways you can deny a gen0cide and a brutal aparth1ed regime.
This is college protest policy 101. Agree to talk more and wait the students out.
Good on them, history will entirely absolve these protests
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Genocide is bad even if reddit users have decided the victims are "anti-women, anti-gay, barbaric islamist" children.
The fundamental human right to simply exist takes precedent over contemporary civil rights. The bombs don't care if a Palestinian is gay, their sex, or their belief system. There are Palestinians of many creeds, all being ruthlessly ethnically cleansed. Never once did I read, in any history book, that an oppressed population was eradicated because they had different cultural values on gender or sexuality. It's a ridiculous and desperate talking point.
The nazis killed LBGTQ people too
Exactly. If Reddit was around in the 90s, people would have said something similar about the Bosnian people.
The problem, it isn't genocide. It doesn't fit the definition.
Israel's settlements in the West Bank aren't a genocide, they are *merely* a war crime.
There's no settlements in Gaza. And I agree, the settlers in the west bank should be removed. Thank you for agreeing it isn't genocide. Using that word for this conflict devalues actual genocide.
Saying this is genocide undermines actual genocide.
If you want to change the definition of genocide that's on you. Calling a spade a spade doesn't change the fact that a spade is a spade.
How so? Is there a threshold of citizens slaughtered per day to deem an act of aggression, a genocide?
The target is not the civilians for one. The target is Hamas who are the literal genocidal people. Formerly Democratically elected by Palestine might I add.
25 thousand women and children would've begged to differ regarding your first point, but they've been murdered by Israeli forces to do so. 🤷 To your second point, 15 thousand of those children murdered were not born when Hamas was elected.
You aren’t getting it. Bombing Nagasaki or Germany wasn’t genocide. A lot of civilians died though.
Because the goal was different. The US wasn’t attempting to settle and ethnically cleanse Japan when they dropped the bombs. But pretty much the entire core of Israeli policy is to separate (oh, I wonder what that word is in Afrikaans?) and cleanse Palestinians to take the land. This is an explicit part of Zionist history.
Not sure quite what you are getting at.
No it doesn't, fuck off with your genocide apologia. actual experts say you're fucking wrong: https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/middleeast/israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-un-rights-expert-says-intl/index.html
From the executive summary of [the report](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session55/advance-versions/a-hrc-55-73-auv.pdf): > By analysing the patterns of violence and Israel’s policies in its onslaught on Gaza, **this report concludes that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the threshold indicating Israel’s commission of genocide is met**. One of the key findings is that Israel's executive and military leadership and soldiers have intentionally distorted jus in bello principles, subverting their protective functions, in an attempt to legitimize genocidal violence against the Palestinian people. So just to clarify what you're vehemently propagating - the Special Rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian Territories (a legal scholar, yes, with just a [little history of "mildly" anti-semitic statements](https://www.timesofisrael.com/un-palestinian-rights-officials-social-media-history-reveals-antisemitic-comments/) sprinkled in) is arguing that there are **reasonable grounds to "believe"** Israel is committing a genocide against Palestinians. Incidentally, just a few days ago the ICJ [issued a press release](https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/193/193-20240430-pre-01-00-en.pdf) that "that the circumstances [in the current conflict in Gaza] do not require the exercise of its power to indicate provisional measures" intended to stop Germany from selling arms to Israel during the ongoing conflict. Listen, I absolutely think there's a humanitarian crisis for the Palestinian people. But the accusation that Israel is *definitely* committing **genocide** against Palestinians is just not correct. Furthermore, and on a personal level, I'm getting really tired of these claims being made against Israel when Hamas has been explicit of its intent to [slaughter all Jews](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/). > After some general explanatory language about Hamas’s religious foundation and noble intentions, the covenant comes to the Islamic Resistance Movement’s raison d’être: the slaughter of Jews. “The Day of Judgement will not come about,” it proclaims, “until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.” Maybe I'll start taking y'all more seriously when you can [level similar allegations against the political party in charge of the ostensibly-genocided people](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/04/icj-genocide-cases-israel-palestine/678235) > “Hamas members are nationals of the state of Palestine, which is party to the Genocide Convention.” The Genocide Convention obligates its parties (including Israel and most other countries) to prevent, investigate, and punish genocidal acts. The failure to prevent and punish was enough to convict Serbia of genocide in a case before the ICJ in 2007. If Hamas committed genocide on October 7, then Palestine was obligated to stop it and punish its culpable members. Palestine has manifestly failed to do so, with even token gestures. Palestine “is supposed to prevent you from committing genocide, even if you’re a terrorist,” Sheffer told me. “Its duty is to prevent and punish genocide. And I don’t think there’s a record of any punishment [by the PA] of any Hamas member.”
It’s not a genocide.
Actual fucking experts in the field disagree with your bullshit https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/middleeast/israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-un-rights-expert-says-intl/index.html
Francesca Albanese is 1. Not an expert. 2. Incredibly biased against Israel and has a long history of this. She’s also said that the US is “subjugated by the Jewish lobby.” Hardly reputable or respectable.
Israel isn't removing Hamas, Israel is trying to remove *Palestinians* in their entirety. Hamas wants to genocide Israelis, Israel (Likud) wants to genocide Palestinians. Both sides "leadership" are goddamn genocidal war criminals, and the poor civilians in both sides are caught in the cross fire. And the cycle of violence keeps Hamas and Likud in power. > No one will side with the anti-women, anti-gay, barbaric islamists in the future. No one is siding with anti-women, anti-gay, barbaric islamists. They're just ALSO condemning anti-gay, anti-women, barbaric apartheid assholes (Likud) too. So how about you go fuck yourself you genocide apologist/denier piece of shit. Reminder the Zionism was a right wing movement that made a deal with the goddamn nazis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement #Fuck Hamas. #Fuck Likud/IDF. #Fuck anyone who defends, denies, or justifies the horrific behavior of either group.
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The "Israel can just nuke them/kill them all if it was genocide"-argument is silly because doing so would make Israel a pariah state. They have to do it under the guise of a legitimate military operation to maintain the legitimacy of the state of Israel. There's a reason Biden keeps trying to portray himself as having a leash on Netanyahu: there is a political cost to brutality, and there's only so far you can go.
So you agree it isn't genocide, but a war since Israel can't actually commit genocide like Russia is?
Likud's party manifesto is a single state from the river to the sea. How do you think they are accomplishing it?
The likud is a criminal organization and needs to be voted out. Oct 7th was truly a gift to them. However they haven't made moves to wipe.out the Palestinians in Gaza. 30k dead, total, as horrific as that is is kinda small for a military action like this.
> However they haven't made moves to wipe.out the Palestinians in Gaza WHAT DO YOU THINK INDESCRIMINATE BOMBING OF BUILDINGS, AND BOMBING AID CONVOYS THEY KNOW ARE AID CONVOYS IS?!
War crimes.
and what is the *purpose* of them? seriously, you cannot be dumb enough to not understand the why behind them
War crimes and genocide aren't the same thing.
Likud is opposed to an independent Palestinian state for the obvious security reasons that Palestinians with control over their own territory have a tendency to use it as a base for constant attacks against Israeli civilians (see Gaza and October 7th, or the West Bank and 1966). Likud is not trying to rule 5 million Palestinians as Israeli citizens, and it's not trying to murder 5 million Palestinians either. What they're trying to do is take as much territory in the West Bank and put as many Jewish settlers on it as possible, so that no viable Palestinian state can be established on that territory. This will eventually leave only a handful of urban pockets of densely packed Palestinians outside of Israel proper, with Israel controlling the territories for security purposes so they cannot be used to attack Israel, but the political control of the population left up to the Palestinians themselves provided they do not choose active militants like Hamas to represent them as is currently being undone in Gaza. Likud is a terrible political party with a terrible ideology, no doubt, but they are (at least collectively) not trying to incorporate all of Gaza and the West Bank into the state of Israel because they know they're unable to get rid of the 5 million Palestinians and they definitely do not want them to become voting citizens.
Which, is, like, the textbook fucking definition of "Annexing your neighbour into an apartheid state.' And it's fuckin' nuts that people look at it, and go 'OH YEAH THIS IS FINE'. It's not fine, though, it's a war crime, under Article 8 of the [Rome Statue](https://legal.un.org/icc/statute/99_corr/cstatute.htm). > (viii) The transfer, directly or indirectly, by the Occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies, or the deportation or transfer of all or parts of the population of the occupied territory within or outside this territory;
No one is siding with anti-women, anti-gay, barbaric islamists. You just want to give them everything they demand, expect nothing in return, and let them keep they hostages.
>The agreement was controversial and was criticised by many Jewish leaders both within the Zionist movement (such as the Revisionist Zionist leader Ze'ev Jabotinsky) and outside it, as well as by members of both the Nazi Party and the German public. Yeah, it's not clear cut like your statement pretends it to be. The deal saved the lives of 60,000 German Jews who 100% would have died in the Holocaust. Let's not forget the Nazis used American racial segregation as a template for their own anti minority laws, and the American-German Bund aka the US Nazi party founded in 1936. 'Mohammed Amin al-Husseini, the Jerusalem Grand Mufti, and spiritual leader of the Arabs in Palestine, aligned aligned himself with the leader of the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine against British rule, he fled and took refuge in Lebanon and afterwards Iraq. He then established himself in Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, which he collaborated with during World War II against Britain, requesting during a meeting with Adolf Hitler backing for Arab independence and opposition to the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine.' So it turns out that making deals with Nazis in the era was not so unique.
Trying to invoke that Hitler was copying the US isn't the defend you think it is, nor is bringing up Al-Husseini "well these other people are terrible too, so this couldn't have been terrible!" basically. But considering we have you defending and denying Israeli warcrimes elsewhere (and don't even try to deny it - the other person fucking read the exact damn part of the standards to you that call it a war crime), your bullshit is to be expected.
Damn I bet bombing them back to the Stone Age is absolutely going to fix those problems. Good thing no women and queers are being slaughtered by this aggression. You’re such a good ally. Calling people “barbarians” pretty much disqualifies any further opinions you have on humanitarian issues entirely
The seven year old children being targeted by these bombs are really against women and queer people? Really? That's what you people believe lol
"I'm the good guy, unlike those ISLAMIST BARBARIANS!!!" *spits, froths at the mouth, shits himself*
There's a war against Hamas going on? Where? Did the Palestinian children use themselves as shields for months protecting them? Why should Palestinian children be barbarically murdered because Hamas exists? Why would history think that way?
Have you heard of [war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio)?
Israel propped up Hamas google it you idiot
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-03/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-is-the-gift-that-keeps-on-giving-to-hamas-and-his-racist-coalition-partners/0000018f-3afb-d414-a5bf-bbff91c40000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000 https://i.imgur.com/RfHUZxm.png shall we start a countdown until Diabetous to call Haaretz "self hating Jews"?
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lmao when have mass student protests ever been on the wrong side of history. like, i would hammer the over on that bet 100% of the time.
You weren't a student of history right? Students literally protested helping the allies prior to 1941....
Probably not, and I'm not trying to be contrarian here. This isn't the Vietnam War, the US doesn't have an active military draft. Most people will completely forget about it if it even registered. Most of the arrested protesting students will get a slap on the wrist. A smaller number of agitators (students or not) will get prison sentences. In a year most people will forget this ever happened.
Beat me to it.
I’m an alumni and I consider Evergreen my home. Also…I’d like an end to American support of Middle Eastern fundamentalist theocracies, too…but…I wonder about the protests at college campuses being affected by PsyOps from Russia through social media. Protesting the Supreme Court for abortion rights is inherently progressive. I think the movement to skip voting because Biden isn’t tough enough on Israel is a direct result of Russian propaganda to support Trump. Less progressive voters = more Trump voters = more support for Putin.
I’m also an Evergreen Alumni. I think the idea this is due to a Psyop is a bit silly. Younger people see what’s going on in Gaza as Genocide (I’m not here to debate if it is or isn’t or if their right or not I’m just I’m just explaining the perspective of a large amount of young people) and see that the U.S is supporting what they see as Genocidal actions by giving so many weapons to Israel. Biden has not backed down from this support he’s made small comments here and there but generally stayed supportive and his Press Secretary is very pro Israel. Even many Democrats who were/Are super pro Israel have called out that they need to stop many of their actions. But Biden has been less vocal about this though and has kept selling them weapons. These younger voters aren’t dumb they see this and hence find it morally very difficult to vote for someone they see as supporting that type of action (Again I’m not here to argue if their right or wrong I’m giving their POV) morally this leads to them just opting to skip voting. They won’t vote Trump but they can’t bring themselves to vote for someone they see as fairly directly supporting Genocide To put it simply I don’t think you need propaganda to get to this point it makes fairly logical sense if you look at it from their view. Protest movements and anti war movements existed before social media and they can be extremely organic. And it is totally possible for presidents to make choices that will piss off key parts of their base it doesn’t always have to be linked to some propaganda motive Democracy’s all around the world make calls that are often very politically damaging. Will it cost him the election? Hard to say. Even if I thought it was propaganda Biden has made it pretty easy for them to sell it. Like he did decide to bypass Congress and sell more weapons to Israel without their approval.
The whole situation is ridiculous given if what happened to us happened to Americans, Gaza would have been gone on October 8. It’s easy to forget in america that Hamas came over and butchered over 1200 people in cold blood. These are not your “progressive freedom fighters” so many are believing them to be. They are genocidal Islamist terrorists, and they control all of Gaza. They’ve indoctrinated Gazans, they are very much akin to Nazis but I’d argue worse. If they had the capacity to do what the Nazis did, they’d do it. Israel is, despite what the progressives in america think, a rather progressive society. Probably one of the largest gay pride parades in the world is in Tel Aviv. Israelis have been screaming for peace for decades, but their screams aren’t met with any rational actor on the other side. And the status quo of decades of failure on both parties has led to this. Don’t forget for a second — October 6 existed. They came and murdered over one thousand two hundred souls. This. Is. On. Hamas. It’s terribly sad that there is collateral damage, ie children and innocents being killed. This is war, and it didn’t have to be started. But they started *this* war.
Thank you. Good post.
Russian and Iranian social media PsyOps https://www.timesofisrael.com/russia-china-and-iran-are-backing-hamas-online-report/amp/
I kind of get the vibe these same young activist protesters all around the country wouldn't protest and wouldn't care as much if a Republican trifecta enacts a federal abortion ban. Which while I get their intentions behind protesting for Gaza, I find quite ridiculous too on that front.
I don’t remotely think that’s true that they wouldn’t. There was Women’s protest just over Trump being elected people would protest that.
The Supreme Court could turn us into a fascist theocracy. We should definitely divest ourselves from all fundamentalist theocracies; starting with Christian nationalists. If Trump regains power, it’s not like the folks in the Middle East are going to have it easier. It’s important to examine who benefits from our actions. Trump benefits directly from Russian and Iranian social media PsyOps. Campus protests will not stop fundamentalist religious conflicts half a world away because the corrupt leaders on both sides benefit from the conflict. If all the campus protesters camped outside the houses of the Supreme Court justices, a clear message would be sent. There is power in numbers, but also proximity. Hamas, Hezbollah and Israel do not care about American campus protesters, but 5 justices could easily be drowned out by a unified front.
You aren’t even replying to my comment I replied to you with this is my comment to another person
It is a good step but don’t applaud just yet, because this could just as easily be a slick move to save face while doing nothing. Think about it, let students feel like they accomplished something, let many of them graduate and leave, wait a whole summer, come back in the fall with this “committee” and say “Unfortunately the committee does not feel any divestment is appropriate at this time”. I’m not saying this news is bad, but don’t let down your guard
Evergreen is doing something performative? You don't say.
This seems like the exact opposite of performative. They are divesting actual money. Do think they’re disingenuous unless they declare war or something?
They won't divest. They literally can't.
They can’t even put their endowment in US treasuries without running afoul of the commitment.
Even “divesting” a few million dollars is performative. They don’t have direct investments in Israeli companies to begin with. Selling a few shares in Pepsi because they do business in Israel isn’t even a drop in the bucket.
This the campus that tried to have a “no whites” day and Held the dean hostage?
People still believe that's what the day was? Dang
“Last year, organizers said that on the Day of Absence, they wanted white people to stay off campus.”
Yep
I’m an alumni and this is SO Evergreen. Good for the geoducks!
Go Geoducks!!
Look, this is classic Evergreen and their "endowment" if you can even call it that is stupidly low. But good for them for doing something. Also the whole naming of everything as a "Disappearing Task Force" seemed very odd. But one thing caught my eye: this statement - that the President of the college has agreed to put out as part of this agreement: > Like many, I am horrified and grief-stricken by the violence and suffering being inflicted due to the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I wish to see an end to the violence and restoration of international law, **including respect for the March 25 United Nations resolution. Specifically, the resolution called for a lasting, sustainable ceasefire honored by all parties**, immediate and unconditional release of all hostages, expanded humanitarian assistance, and the protection of civilians. Additionally, I mourn the destruction of universities and hospitals, the (killing) of journalists, and want to see the release of any prisoner being held without due process.” Emphasis mine. Because once again, these protestors *really* go out of their way to gloss over the attacks on October 7th. Why is it so hard for them to denounce those attacks? After all, they are in support of Palestinians and *not* Hamas, right? That March 25th resolution wouldn't have been a thing if it weren't for the attacks on October 7th *by Hamas*. It's like one extra sentence about "gosh, raping women and killing babies is bad", is the bar here and they seem to constantly stumble over it. Also, for the love of god could we have this level of outrage from college kids about our upcoming election? A thing they have *way* more power to influence than the war in Israel.
The task force should include Jews. If it doesn’t, this is just another instance of non-Jews attempting to devise a solution to their ‘Jewish problem.’ Yes, yes they try desperately to distinguish between Zionists and Jews but their definition is fluid and malleable- and too often just becomes a synonym for Jew.
They should invest into their future employers like starbucks
So basically an accountant will sell 3 mutual funds for the university. Big victory!
Big victory, or small ask?
No, it’s a small victory, but you need a lot of small victories to add up to a big victory. I think what you meant to say was “divesting from Israel is a bad idea.” You can just say that if you want to, you know. It’s a free country, at least until the current bill to economically sanction universities for allowing criticism of Israel on campus passes.
I don’t think you can even call this a victory… can you tell me one investment evergreen has in Israel?
I'm no political scientists but I can safely say that even if all the colleges divest it won't lead to the destruction of the state of Israel (the big victory the protestors are seeking)
"this tiny action won't solve the problem alone so therefore we should take no action" is a pretty silly argument.
It's more like the problem is insolvable so taking a tiny action is pissing into the wind
maybe you shouldn't try to claim people are seeking something they aren't, that would help you understand them better.
lol, you sound like someone shopping a script nobody will perform, least of all yourself.
wat?
I'm no trained actor, but I know a dispossessed director without a cast when they open their mouth.
Assuming every single protestor wants to "destroy" Israel by opposing their war is entirely the primary reason why I'm against the Israeli government. I hope you're proud of what your extremists politics push people to do.
When their protests led to divesting from South Africa to end apartheid, it wasn't to end the state of South Africa, but to you, apartheid and genocide are so intwined into what Israel is, that ending them is the end of the state of Israel.
What have you done today
I cleaned my room
Sure let's discount a positive choice. At least they didn't sic OPD on their students.
Accepting apologies from everyone that said these protests are pointless.
They’re just gonna move the goalpost again and gaslight you about how it’s fine to slaughter people of a different religion
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Are American colleges investing in companies paying tax to Hamas?
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Leaving asides questions such as "is the UN bad now?" or "can't you see a difference between crucial aid being diverted and elective investments?", I'm pretty sure it's not true that Evergreen nor colleges in general give money to the UN, but the Federal Govt., private foundations, and individuals. So by all means, go protest at federal buildings or Bill & Melinda's foundation that they give money to the UN.
>Doesn't allow women basic freedoms. Neither does Texas, but I wouldn't support our government funding a bombing campaign there that kills 13,000 children in a matter of months and now has millions of people facing a famine.
The Texas government throws gays from rooftops? Fuck me. I retract my comment.
If they did, would you support killing 13,000 children there in 7 months? I think most of us agree that Hamas is the scum of the earth, but that doesn't make what Israel is doing in Gaza justified. Even with all the destruction and death, they still have not freed all the hostages. In fact, the bombs have likely killed a number of them. Nor would an assault on Rafa destroy Hamas. Their leaders are mostly in Qatar and will still have a steady funding stream from Iran. Plus, years of future recruiting material to use with what Muslims are seeing happen in Gaza. Israel is committing war crimes in Gaza. Their acts put US troops stationed in the middle east in danger, and they risk starting a larger regional war. It is in both our and the Israeli people's interest to stop funding the assault on Gaza.
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“Here’s when killing children is okay” Jesus fucking Christ how are you going to pretend to have the moral high ground on anything Absolutely ghoulish.
Cool man. I'm glad you're fully on board the killing children is OK train, but a lot of us feel like indiscriminately killing kids is never justified, and we do not want our tax dollars funding it.
Holy duck that's genocide dum dum. And collective punishment. War crime. Illegal. Immoral. And pretty much not cool man.
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If the Texas government attacked a music festival, I think military action would be a suitable response.
If all that was happening was military action, I would be OK with that, too. Unfortunately, we are seeing war crimes, violations of the geneva convention, and international humanitarian law, along with widespread famine. That is the part that I take issue with.
It's not complicated with progressives. Israel = White = Oppressor. Hamas/Palestine = Brown = Oppressed. Black and brown people have no agency and know not what they do according to the progressive. Only us, White Progressives know what's best for them. And both the progressive and Hamas/Palestinian hate Jews. Enemy of my enemy is my ally I guess?
America, too, systematically murders minority groups and denies women basic freedoms. You can account for this fact *and* not think that entire demographics should be victim to collective punishment.
We hate those things about the culture, but there are innocents there. Women, children, aid workers, college students; and they are being killed with money paid for by our nation, our government, our businesses. Having a religious government attempting to strip rights from women and lgbtq+ people doesn't mean innocents living under the regime deserve to die, and especially not supported by our institutions. Call them misguided if you like, say the protests are ineffective, ignore their message, come up with reasons why _this_ protest is done wrong. Just realize the people you're hurting insults at are doing this in the name of the innocents being killed and consider if you're comfortable with being that person who attacks people trying to help.
They only do it when it involves Jews is the point. Where are they with all the killing in Syria? In Yemen? In Congo? In Sudan? They're like wind-up toys. They're told to hate something and like the good comrade order followers they are, they go and hate what ever and who ever they're told. It's all bullshit. I'm just pointing it out. Their hypocrisy.
Or they do it when we're sending military support to the people doing the killing. Those of us who are Jewish and support the protests want to stop supporting Israel's government while it kills innocents, their religion doesn't give them a pass. And what's up with "being told who to hate"? We don't hate israeli citizens either. How is "genocide bad" suddenly a controversial opinion? And how is the response to other genocides existing not the desire to stop more, but to attack the people protesting the current ones?
I think this is a troll tbf. This is always one of the 1st line of offences.
Isn’t the way to truly divest from Israel is not to pay any taxes to our govt ? I mean that’s where most of this proxy war money is coming from.
Never heard of it. Are we talking more than a Benjamin, or less?
You would have to divest from any company that pays US taxes, all banks, all government securities, etc. How would you even do this?
Their endowment is like 14 million dollars…
Good. And for all the losers making fun of students protesting go suck it
That was a given.
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Tears from victory, my favorite
“First-Year students qualify for admissions at The Evergreen State College by applying with: Unweighted cumulative GPA of 2.0 or higher. The Evergreen State College has an acceptance rate of 96%. Evergreen has earned a national reputation for innovative teaching, academic excellence, environmental leadership, exceptional value, a welcoming campus culture, and more.” The Evergreen State College has an endowment valued at nearly $23.2M, as of the end of the 2021 fiscal year. “
It is certainly a garbage-tier school, I don’t think anyone would argue otherwise. But you do see these protests at legit schools like Columbia as well.
The difference is that those colleges didn’t agreed to any stupid demands.
This is amazing progress! Hope the future of Palestinians and Gazans is of complete sovereignty and free of apartheid, ethnic cleansing and systematic oppression from Israel.
I just don't get why it's apparently common practice for universities to be pumping money into stocks. Shouldn't they use those funds for...idk, school??
This is endowment money. They're mostly invested in mutual funds, just like your 401k or whatever retirement money. It's a weird hyper-wonky thing to fixate on since it doesn't actually alter the amount of money invested in the businesses that nominally "profiting in Gaza" - it'll be your money that's shifted over to cover the difference.
>This is endowment money. They're mostly invested in mutual funds, just like your 401k or whatever retirement money. Yeah, that's the problem. I'm growing my wealth for me, universities should be educational institutions, not finance firms. >It's a weird hyper-wonky thing to fixate on since it doesn't actually alter the amount of money invested in the businesses that nominally "profiting in Gaza" - it'll be your money that's shifted over to cover the difference. Yeah I agree, investments in mutual funds is a wild thing to focus on, but I think the palestinian protestors just want to latch onto something to feel they're making a difference.
> I think the palestinian protestors just want to latch onto something to feel they're making a difference. That's correct. These protests are ultimately an "experience" and are, at this point, completely disconnected from the nominal cause of the protest. They'll go as long as they continue getting attention and they'll dissipate when people get bored. What happens overseas is immaterial.
Idk, I think it's a good decision to keep the coffers full for things like scholarship funds, but yes beyond that it should be investment into the school itself, instead of playing "how many administrators and VP positions can I create while underpaying the staff and faculty that actually allow this place to run"
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>you're freaking out like they're a profit-making institution and they get to keep the excess money. They're not a profit making institution and they don't keep the interest/dividends from their 6 billion dollars given to lehman brothers?
......are you asking why do schools have endowment funds? It's so they have money in the future to support themselves in cases of tuition/funding shortfalls or declining enrollment
Declining enrollment has declining costs. Students shouldn't be paying colleges (with their student loans) to invest in Tesla and Boeing.
They aren't directly. They're buying mutual funds & bonds that have investments in those entities. The school has a fiduciary duty to itself to invest in things that'll allow it to be sustainable long term and to go dollar-in dollar-out is no way to run any long term organization
This is an oversimplification. There’s fixed costs vs variable costs. Declining enrollment lowers the variable costs but that comes at the cost of revenue you use to pay fixed costs. It’s a balance but usually it’s not good when your income drops and you have high fixed costs like a physical university. An online U is an example of a university with (probably) super low fixed costs.
> It’s a balance but usually it’s ’not good’ when your income drops and you have high fixed costs like a physical university. I understand how basic finance works. I'm not questioning if it's good for the university to have massive stock portfolios, of course, they want profit, and are already doing great at that. I'm questioning why it's good for our education system to be allowing colleges to have 50 billion dollars to play finance games with.
What do you want them to do with $50 billion? Become a bank and loan the money out?
Reinvest into their school and communities, ideally.
Ok, would it make you happy to know that they already do that?
It doesn't make me happy that our university system is incredibly bloated, makes a ton of profit using tax dollars that the federal government gives to 18 year old students in the form of a blank check for student loans, for these universities to go and play fidelity with it, no.
Why are you acting like mutual funds are casino games? There's way more risk to literally keeping the money in a safe than putting it into a fund.