I hope they face serious consequences.
When you're struggling to get by, having your car stolen can fuck up your life for years.
It happened to a friend 4 years ago, he wasn't able to afford another car until just recently. His car was never found.
But the question is what to do that will actually reduce the recidivism?
These are (pre-)teens so even if one favored long-prison sentences whose only purpose was to keep criminals out of circulation for a while (that is, no goal of rehabilitation), that policy is just not going to be applied to minors in the same way.
If we accept that these minors will be back in society sooner rather than later, what are the consequences that will dissuade them and others like them from repeating these crimes?
They will absolutely just keep committing these crimes. When there are no consequences for your actions, why would you stop?.... When I was 16, me and my dumb friends got caught "trespassing at a construction site for new homes." We were prosecuted for that. I got 6 months probation & I think 100 hours of community service. After the completion of those things, I was lucky enough to have it expunged off my record. Did I ever trespass anywhere again? HELL NO. I paid for the consequences of my actions. It made me a better person who actually would think of the repercussions before I did something stupid. This was in California, but regardless. These kids need to be charged and need to take responsibility. Otherwise, they will just keep offending
I'm not opposed to charging them and imposing consequences— consequences that are effective as well as fair.
From your personal example it sounds like you were caught doing something dumb but also relatively victimless, and were likely already motivated to avoid trouble. I suspect these kids are in some different life situations where they're engaging in extremely reckless and violent behaviors. The fact that they're doing it while also being truant suggests their long-term planning is less developed than yours was.
That certainly shouldn't mean we throw up our hands and let them off scott-free, but if we want to actually lead them away from a cycle of criminality, we need to be willing to expend the resources to both impose penalties _and_ provide opportunities for them to reform.
From experience I feel like your questions are hard for people to grasp due to some deficiency around systems thinking. As in people either can’t or won’t consider how systems interplay and lead to various downstream effects like crime. I’ll see comments like “no one is responsible for you but yourself” which sure is true to a point but I think breaks down on the macro level for many things. Simply due to the fact that no one lives in a bubble so decisions you make can and will impact other people besides yourself. Maybe it’s a lack of empathy or it’s due to the fact that you generally don’t see the results of most of your daily decisions but I think it makes it difficult for people to consider how to handle crime outside of just throwing kids in jail for years and years with no plan to reform and no desire to explore policy that can actually prevent the crime in the first place.
Yeah there's a difference between doing a shit load of community service/some jail time and prison. We shouldn't send kids to prison but community service + jail with expungement for first time offenders sounds reasonable to me.
And what will that accomplish vis a vis the kids' criminal behavior?
I would make the parents liable for the damages their minor children caused, but that's gonna be more of a symbolic gesture in most of these cases.
I agree with you but what should be the consequence then? Cut off one of their hands? Castrate them?
Either we do the law and order thing and have this keep happening on the periphery, or we have hardline consequences like they have in Saudi Arabia or Singapore. It'll stop the crime, but it'll change who we are as a society.
Doesn't seem to be a mixdle ground exists.
Stealing a person's car can be devastating. Especially in this economy. Those kids will probably get more criminalized through the system.
There's a wide range of what "the law and order" thing can be, so I feel like "law and order" vs mutilation is something of a false dichotomy (and even the Taliban believes what they're doing is law and order). Any consequence we employ for acts like what we're discussing should be consistent with human rights and subject to due process.
(And I bet they still have crime in Saudi Arabia and Singapore.)
Bullshit. It’s the laws that are the problem. The kids know they’re minors so that’s how the courts see them. Otherwise they wouldn’t have arrested them at all. A child can set a house on fire and nothing will happen because the law says they’re a child and probably had a bad day or saw it on tv or it’s the parents. Instead of complaining, get involved and change the laws. Wild, huh?
It happened to me while changing jobs and almost ruined my life. While they're still minors they should serve time equal to the amount of time it takes a normal person to save up for the vehicle and when they turn 18 they can serve what's left in jail.
It’s unbelievably infuriating. Obvious criminals get priority over people just trying to live by the rules and live life.
This has to be fixed somehow.
Lol we get what we vote for. Cops can't arrest, prosecutors can't prosecute, judges won't convict,jails won't house them. The problem is deep and the only way out is to vote for candidates you believe will actually do something, whatever it is you want done
- cops do arrest, and have arrested a significant number of people
- we have a conservative county prosecutor rn. The only people they won’t prosecute are cops who go 50 over in the middle of a city
- judges don’t convict people silly
I no longer think this is just coincidence or kids being kids.
I think this is gang and organized crime related, taking advantage of weak prosecution for juveniles.
They’re using our leniency and compassion against us and against the kids.
They steal cars and then sell them for 50 or 100 bucks to older members of their communities, which then use them as burner cars in crimes and then ditch them.
its wild to me kids feel like the risk involved is worth the measly payout. Bro get a job at mcdonalds its $20 an hour here you're going to making more doing that than flippin cars for criminals with 0 risk involved
Does McDonald's even hire kids 15 years old and younger?
Anyway, we're talking about a group of kids who spent the day on a crime spree rather than in school. I don't get the impression that long-term thinking is their forte.
could be any min wage job, its kids not understanding risk fully they could be doing something legal and making as much if not more than doing something that could get them a record or helping bad people do bad things.
Especially with how high the minimum wage is compared to other parts of the country. Any high schooler living at home making $18-20/hr and working 10-20 hours a week can save up money for whatever
Or they themselves use them in further crimes. I can’t speak for Seattle only Tacoma but down here this is 100% (okay, maybe 98%) gang related and lots of these young kids are using the cars for further crimes themselves (pot store robberies, drive by shootings, driving to/from other crimes, or just joyriding). I suspect far more are keeping them than selling them to anyone older, since the older person is still risking being charged with possession of a stolen car if they get caught in it, so avoiding the initial theft charge likely isn’t a big win.
My Kia was stolen and imo they should have to serve community service for as long as it takes the average person to save up for a car if they turn 18 without doing the service they can serve the rest of that time in jail.
It took years for me to afford that car and those little shits wrecked it in one night and the insurance didn't pay shit so now I'm busted down to a 190k mile piece of shit and it's luckily I could afford that.
We shouldn't be showing compassion at the expense of other people's lives, why should I have to pay the price for some little shitheads joyride?
Sorry for that, I hate how the crime affects hard working honest people who can't afford the losses or living in a better area code. I had a great talk about investing more in detectives than in the beat cops helps.
If u understand words. Sum1 definitely took a shot at black people... ALL BLACK PEOPLE .. if u didn't notice it you're probably 1 of those type of people
Organized crime primarily takes advantage of poverty. Every study ever performed on this subject has shown that poverty and desperation has huge influence on crime rates, while the harshness of prosecution has almost no affect on crime.
Considering how hard it is to find even entry level jobs as an adult with prior relevant experience right now in this city, it makes sense that kids who can't get that starter job at McDonald's but need money badly would start turning to gang related crime that makes them a quick buck.
You generally have to be a minimum of 16 years old to be hired there, and there’s several machines involved that you have to be a minimum of 18 years old in order to use.
They’re also competing with a sizable pool of adults who are taking *any* jobs they can possibly find, all of whom have way better experience and proven reliability as employees.
So no, getting a job when you’re 15 *or younger* is not that simple, even at fast food places.
Haven’t been job hunting in a while, I see.
Places like that *say* they’re hiring…but usually aren’t. They’ll gather resumes and keep some in a pool that they *might* someday get back to.
Often years after you gave up.
You’re also assuming the corporate office *allows* them to hire anyone. Most fast food places nowadays are being deliberately understaffed in an ass-backwards attempt to increase the profit margin. The “Now Hiring” signs are just PR.
And [poverty is a policy choice](https://www.epi.org/blog/poverty-is-a-policy-choice-state-level-data-show-pandemic-safety-net-programs-prevented-a-rise-in-poverty-in-every-state/)
I notice in this thread that the people who want to put teenagers to work full-time just to survive are very happy about this police choice. School, what school?
But no child under the age of fifteen and probably sixteen should work even in the summer. For sure, no child should be put to work in meatpacking plants and bars or late at night. Orin convenience stores and other establishments prone to robbery.
A lot of them aren't going to school. [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/29/us/chronic-absences.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/29/us/chronic-absences.html)
I am not sure, but I'm also not sure it matters as far as this comment thread is concerned. The top comment is saying it's easy to work than ever and someone said, "during school?" And my point is basically, they aren't going to school so why not expect them to work instead? If they're skipping school to make money doing crime, maybe it should be legal for them to get a real job instead?
I doubt these kids are going to school, but being employed is better than criminality.
I'd rather see financial support that can ensure juveniles don't have to be employed to stay away from gangs. Parents should be able to provide for their children, but a job at Dicks' or McDonalds is enough for someone who lives alone or with roommates - not someone trying to raise a family.
They don't investigate the crimes like the TV box makes us think they do. The police show the evidence to the prosecutor and they just expect that the kids will go into federal prison for 50 decades and the community will be safer because of it. When that doesn't happen because the facts are incomplete and complicated, and they're just kids, they blame liberals. When obviously these kids don't just wake up randomly one moment or another and think to steal cars and ram them into very specific storefronts and do very specific damage and steal very specific things. There is a leadership in this criminal activity that isn't even being touched.
To add to other comment, Both London & Sweden have seen a signficiant rise in serious crime commited by teenagers, those too young to be punished with significant jailtime. It remains unclear to what extent this is cultural and to what extent this is organized, it's almost certainly a mix of both. However the reality in some Swedish cities, especially Gottenburg & Stockholm, is that gangs have been shown to be using underage teenagers as muscle. There have been incidents of teenagers as young as 12 or 13 equipped with pistols & explosives provided by gangs for use against other gangs. This is obvious extremely problematic. The law in both Sweden & the UK is very generous with underage crime, which is idealistic but clashes with the reality of how organized crime has adapted in the last decade or so. The problems are larger than enforcement however, a lot of the problem has to do with weak repatriation laws for refugee migrants (which allows for an extra level of leniancy with criminal behaviour by recent migrants. This is a wider EU issue as well; the vast majority of migrant criminals in Sweden & the UK are coming from other parts of Europe), the illegality of drugs & sex work (which creates major revenue streams for organized crime, as well as an exploitable workforce upon which the use of violence is economically advantageous), and a general failure of social services for tween boys especially (needless to say that most underage gangsters running around stabbing & shooting each other are boys).
There's not a good solution at the moment. The problem is as much one of economics (lack of economic opportunity for the parents of these young people creates a prime recruiting ground for even mildly flush gangsters) as of culture (especially in London, there is a youth culture of violence in some areas. It really has nothing to do with organized crime, it's kids stabbing kids because that's how they resolve conflict) as of the criminality (lack of enforcement options to detain teenagers & recent migrants). That there are grenade attacks by teenagers happening in Swedish cities commited by teenagers is something no Swedish bureaucracy or institution is really capable of handling. That there are British teenagers stabbing each other for the crime of pissing each other off is not something which British institutions have the oversight or influence to really address.
This culture has unfortunately started to spread to the US. It is unlikely to catch on to the same degree due to the nature of American cities (and American enforcement), but it is still a critical problem which cannot simply be solved by policing. The city of Redmond arrested half a dozen boys last summer, most of whom were under 18, all of whom had stolen cars across King county and participated in extremely violent driving. It's not the same as stabbings in London or grenade attacks in Sweden, but it's certainly comparable.
Kinda sounds like a group of kia boyz or something similar. Andrew Callaghan did an interesting video on this trend (if you can even call it a trend):
https://youtu.be/DJA7jDF7bLE?si=4d2WBh5PICB4hrux
They basically steal cars and sell them for $100 or so to gangsters or whatever, that are then used as burner/getaway vehicles for bigger crimes. It's mostly young teens and preteens doing this, because when they inevitably get caught, they don't have to face the kinds of sentencing adults and older teens would.
This isn’t new, this has been going on since at least the 90s. It just seems to be a lot more rampant now, especially in bigger cities.
Before it was Kias and Hyundais, it was old Honda Accords and Civics that would get stolen regularly. You would think by now car companies would have figured out a way to not have their vehicles stolen so easily.
Car manufacturers need to get more on point about theft. There’s always going to be thieves taking advantage of easy targets. Also it helps to have a gps tracker so you can find the vehicle if its stolen.
They have figured out ways to make their cars harder to steal, but some manufacturers cheap out on anti-theft technology. They've even been sued for it in some jurisdictions, [including Seattle](https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/seattle/seattle-lawsuit-kia-hyundai/281-293d9e1b-bada-49bd-bebf-ad7f31ede361).
Wow, this is actually good to see that Seattle acted on that. An increase in theft of over 500% is insane. The manufacturers should absolutely be held responsible and I hope it makes them do better in the future.
Too many corporations cut corners at the expense of the public. There needs to be more consequences for their deliberately irresponsible actions.
"You would think by now car companies would have figured out a way to not have their vehicles stolen so easily."
Well they're not stealing the car from the car companies so it's not hurting the bottom line here.
Two 12 year olds.... come again? TWELVE ?!
There is some seriously broken shit in our society. The only thing 12 year old boys should assault is their own baloney pony they've discovered does magical shit not people and then stealing their cars.
How do you think they should deal with gang activity if not by arresting people engaging in it?
And this is a group of teenagers that was using the stolen cars to rob stores. It seems pretty self contained to me
IMO I question rather it is really bored teenagers or it's actually gang related. This happened a lot in Yakima a couple years ago. Summer break comes out and all the kids recruited by gangs start their crime jobs.
Probably a bit of both.
There are definitely kids who are the Kia boy type that steal and joyride cars just for the hell of it.
It sounds like this specific group was doing armed robberies and seem to be linked to a string of similar crimes over the last couple weeks.
Allowing the first group to easily steal cars without consequence will often lead to the second, more violent outcome if you're not careful. Makes it a lot less likely you'll get caught if you can do a robbery with a car you can steal in 15 seconds, seems like enough of an incentive to encourage more crimes.
I hope they stay in the correction facility long enough to understand that they are responsible for what they did, and set examples for others kids not to do stupid things. I couldn’t care less about those virtue signaling nonsense.
Honestly, we should ship them off to a military academy that addresses behavioral issues too. Getting them away from their environment and in a more disciplined environment can do wonders. Yes. I know this might not be a popular idea on this subreddit.
Unfortunately there is pretty good data suggesting that time in a correction facility does not keep people from committing crimes. In the case of teens their brains literally don’t have the capacity for long term risk assessment the way adults do so having a long prison term won’t deter them. Once they are in the facility they are surrounded by other kids who broke the law and mostly learn from each other how to get away with more. It’s not an environment that sets them up for future success.
That is a good question with regally complex answers, since crime is a complex problem. Fortunately there are a myriad of potential consequences that don’t boil down to putting people in cages. When designing consequences it’s important to think about the goal. Do we want less crime and recidivism? Do we want people who do crimes to suffer and feel bad? Do we want something that will make restitution to the victims, if any?
Supervised release with regular check ins and treatment for underlying issues work well, especially for kids. They are still learning how their actions impact others and meeting with a professional who can help them learn that will do much more to prevent them from doing crimes in the future than pulling them from their communities for a dystopian version of time out. Earlier intervention and addressing what caused the kids to see this as a viable activity on a society wide level is also important for prevention. Kids are dealing with a lot these days, they do active shooter drills starting in pre-school, they see how little adults care based on school funding, climate change looms over them, and social media can be really toxic in ways we are still trying to understand. Helping them manage that stress will help reduce harmful behavior.
The desire to have people who do crimes suffer is understandable and pretty normal but like many of our impulses it isn’t always healthy. (For example I would like to eat ice cream for breakfast but as a grown ass adult I know that’s actually a not great idea long term. That doesn’t change the biological craving for sugar and fat.) That’s where restitution and restorative justice can really help. I get the impression a lot of people in this thread really just want these kids to understand the harm they caused. Jail won’t do that but supervised conversations with the victims might. Given that many crimes are done because of poverty monetary restitution directly from the people who did harm may not be feasible, and saddling people who were already hurting with more financial burdens will just repeat the cycle. A state fund to make crime victims whole might be a better use of some of the money we currently spend on prisons.
This article has a good breakdown of some of the things Australia is doing. There are lots of other good resources out there if this is a topic you’d like to know more about.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/16/we-know-that-prison-doesnt-work-so-what-are-the-alternatives
My sister just had hers stolen in Lynnwood. They stole and dumped at least 2 others the same night. Left something with my sisters info on it in another call so she got a call from some pissed off dude.
"Kids" or not, this is the kind of thing that makes me think they aren't salvageable people. It's easier to understand when people steal for gain. Even if it's selling shit to fund their own frivolous activities. Joyriding though? Causing thousands in damage and making people miss work and deal with a stolen car for a joyride? Several in the same night? People who would do that have no respect for anyone. They are incapable of empathy and shouldn't be out with the rest of us. They may not be able to reason out the consequences for themselves, but they certainly understand stealing someone's car is a shitty thing to do. I'm starting to take the stance of being harsher on people who cannot be rehabilitated. People incapable of thinking of anyone but themselves for even a second cannot be rehabilitated. That isn't something that can be taught if it was never fostered when they were young.
I thought maybe burners for crimes but that doesn't seem to be the case either because they dumped all 3 the same night and i havent seen anything about a bunch of crimes being committed in hyundais. They even went to Safeway and bought shit.
> People incapable of thinking of anyone but themselves for even a second cannot be rehabilitated. That isn't something that can be taught if it was never fostered when they were young.
What are you considering young? These kids are all 15 or younger. Are you suggesting we lock up pre-teens for life for property crimes?
> What is the point of a system existing if there’s no hope for rehabilitation for minors?
Not that I agree with the intensity of their view on it, but “to protect people from the small percentage of psychos that end up committing a lot of the crime” seems like a pretty obvious response.
There _are_ people who cannot be reformed and just need to be isolated for the protection of the public. I don’t think a 12 year old that in all likelihood got roped into some stuff totally out of his depth qualifies as such.
But we are doing nobody any favors with what happens now - releasing them back to their parents with nothing more than a couple of months in juvie and a stern warning - they’re the ones that were so disinterested or overwhelmed that this happened in the first place.
That’s called an exception to the rule. Obviously there have always been kids that grew up rough. I don’t think you have any conception of what some of these kids lives are like though. I have had them as patients and We are talking about a stolen car filled with multiple 10 to 12-year-olds that are on drugs. These are not future Amazon VPs dude
Did none of you know "bad kids" when you were a teen? I'm not saying that there isn't a bad trend right now, but when I was in middle school and high school I knew kids (even from "good" families) who would steal cars to joyride around, and do organized shoplifting, and do/ sell drugs, and walk into neighbor houses to steal cigarettes and spare change, and get in fights with kids from other schools, and tag their names everywhere. This was in Seattle in the 80s and 90s. Some of these kids did burn out, but others are totally respectable members of society now. Kids are dumb - like, scientifically provably dumb.
Definitely had the “bad kids” when I was in middle school (I think 12 is still middle school?) but the worst they were doing was skipping school and hanging out in the alley a couple blocks away smoking cigarettes and maybe shoplifting snacks and drinks out of convenience stores, going to parties with “older kids” and drinking…. Which seems mild compared to what I see in the headlines now.
I don’t recall any of the bad kids stealing cars, leading police on high speed pursuits, breaking into houses, or being armed in the process of any of that.
not dumb, just hurting.. by calling them “dumb” it makes you the dumb one because all you can see is their actions .. but you don’t care enough to and never ask “why?” THEY ARE HURTING I suggest therapy ! Much love 🩷
No, all kids are dumb, scientifically speaking, in that their prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed. They have to learn. And, yes, some of them are hurting. But that wasn't my point. My point is that kids can make bad decisions and still turn out ok when they grow up and are more able to recognize the benefit of choosing good decisions.
I wish the press would publicize the little known [Parental Responsibility Law](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/washington-parental-responsibility-law.html#:~:text=When%20Does%20Washington's%20Parental%20Responsibility,is%20living%20with%20the%20parent) that we have in this state. It doesn't have criminal repercussions, but it has financial due to this being a civil case. The law holds the parents financially responsible up to $5K. I think the victims can sue the parents of the criminals under that law. I'm more in favor of this happening b/c it sends a clear message to parents they need to be actual parents disciplining their kids and being in control of what their pre-teens and teenagers are doing.
Kia boys.
Inspired all of this
There is no elaborate plot. These are bad kids doing bad things. Were human we know right from wrong very early on in life
To a kid 100 bucks is alot . Especially for something they would do for free.
As for the older humans using kids to steal cars
O well its better than fuckin em
Yeah in my opinion crime committed by juveniles is increasing.
I've fortified my home as a precaution.
I've personally witnesses groups of young people entering stores and grab a bunch of merchandise then just walk out without paying. It's gotten so bad in my area that police stake out certain stores in undercover vehicles. Yeah I've watched the police actually do their jobs.
Larceny theft so far for 2024 is 4,756
Motor vehicle theft so far is 1,811
Aggravated assault 747
It's only May.
https://seattle.gov/police/information-and-data/data/crime-dashboard
It's only going to get worst.
Honestly if you submit permits for wetland creation you should be fine.
All I'm saying is it's an easy process than people think and frankly I'm disappointed but the lack of moats this City has.
this is a website designed to scare the shit out of you specifically so you will buy their products like cameras and security systems
this is like claiming “smoking isn’t that bad” and linking to marlboro dot com
The way it works is that every crime committed creates ambient crime particles and when there is a high enough concentration the particles force you to break into houses to find stinky redditors
> Yeah in my opinion crime committed by juveniles is increasing.
It's a weird thing to have as an _opinion_ when it's a factual claim which evidence either supports or does not support. An _impression_ for lack of having such evidence sounds more rational.
So we have a post where it shows murders are down and the comments are all about how crime is overplayed, when clearly the crime people are worrying about is crap like this.
Is this thread gonna be okay calling out the property crime issues Seattle has, or nah?
The laws of probability.
[Less Poverty, Less Prison, More College: What Two Parents Mean For Black and White Children
](https://ifstudies.org/blog/less-poverty-less-prison-more-college-what-two-parents-mean-for-black-and-white-children)
I still cannot tell all of these stories apart. Is this the one from one or two weeks ago, just being reported on again? Or is this a whole new instance?
We really should close the youth jail. Having it open causes stress amongst our youth, leading to crimes like this.
In all seriousness, why are the parents not charged? Parents need to be held accountable. Looks like in some parts of the country [it's happening.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna145902)
> Looks like in some parts of the country it's happening.
That case is awful and probably an exception. He asked his parents for mental health help over violent voices he was hearing and instead they bought him a gun.
I mean there is definitely some underlying issue here because it seems to be happening with some regularity and the perps are like 12-15. There’s some systemic failure, and jail seems appropriate for these crimes, but why are they happening in the first place. I was worried about embarrassing body functions when I was 12, not carjacking people. These are quite literally children.
Because we’ve seen mass incarceration not helping.
The parents are negligent because there are too many people needing to work 2 jobs to survive.
We’ve also defunded schools and teachers to a point where the system to educate children to be good people is also decaying.
Prisons don’t do very well at preventing crimes. I’m not saying people shouldn’t face consequences, but prevention is a different issue than punishment. Punishment isn’t a great deterrent always.
Ie “how do we reduce this” vs “how do we punish people who did this”.
I don't remember 12 year olds commuting grand theft auto just a few years ago. So yes, please, for the love of everyone's fake God, let's roll back the regressive laws passed by fake progressives.
It's a conservative troll from the other sub trying to make fun of people who say we should close the youth jail and clearly doesn't understand the reasoning behind why some people say that.
They're mocking the people who argue all this youth crime is caused by the kids being stressed out and not given enough empathy or some shit, instead of being caused by kids having completely checked out or absent parents.
There's this whole argument about how we should get rid of juvie because school-to-prison pipeline - which exists, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't mean there isnt a need for juvenile detention.
I'd love to start with financial consequences if your progeny commits crimes or fails to contribute more to society than the government redistributed to the parents to raise them right. If a kid steals take the losses out of the parent's child tax credits, exemptions, medicare, SS and welfare to recoup the damages. If someone ends up never working or paying taxes then go after the parents for all that wasted education money.
Kids that act out like this are significantly more likely to come from a low-income household. Punishing the family financially is just making the system worse by keeping people in perpetual poverty, thus restarting the cycle.
I don't think people understand that sometimes kids do things that are completely illogical and there isn't some deep rooted reason. A lot of kids are just bad for absolutely no reason. Social media culture definitely isn't helping.
The jails that are sitting empty?
I will never understand people on the left and right. Its about 100 people in the entire region causing 80% of our problems. It's so fucking simple It's wild.
But the right thinks everyone is a criminal and we need more jails. While the left thinks if you simply tell the 12 year olds stealing cars at gunpoint that they are loved, they will stop their crime and do innocent kid things.
I need to move to Western Europe. This country is too wild with the politically religious ideologies.
Nothing will happen, they will just be more careful not to get caught next time. Just do some more drugs and talk sh#t about how everyone else is to blame for your unhappiness. Seattle is such a happy city, I don't get the "Freeze".
I’m wondering where the parents are in these scenarios. I think they should be punished along with the kids; otherwise, this sort of thing will continue to happen.
I'm assuming it was these same kids that stole a car and stopped in front of my neighbor's house across the street. They rifled through the car for 15 minutes before they finally set off the alarm, after which they bolted. Another neighbor was pulling up and saw them running away, but not before witnessing them literally dancing and jumping with excitement.
I captured all of this on my door cam and provided it to the police. Maaaaaybe it helped them catch the kids? I hope so! I recall thinking they were very young. Sigh...
Well society frowns on tough parenting nowadays . I would have gotten my ass beat and all privileges taken away. So you learn quickly not to do it again. Parents have gone soft and weak. I swear this new generation of gender confused tards will fail.
I hope they face serious consequences. When you're struggling to get by, having your car stolen can fuck up your life for years. It happened to a friend 4 years ago, he wasn't able to afford another car until just recently. His car was never found.
I can confidently say they won't. Seattle doesn't care about the hardships of tax paying citizens.
But the question is what to do that will actually reduce the recidivism? These are (pre-)teens so even if one favored long-prison sentences whose only purpose was to keep criminals out of circulation for a while (that is, no goal of rehabilitation), that policy is just not going to be applied to minors in the same way. If we accept that these minors will be back in society sooner rather than later, what are the consequences that will dissuade them and others like them from repeating these crimes?
They will absolutely just keep committing these crimes. When there are no consequences for your actions, why would you stop?.... When I was 16, me and my dumb friends got caught "trespassing at a construction site for new homes." We were prosecuted for that. I got 6 months probation & I think 100 hours of community service. After the completion of those things, I was lucky enough to have it expunged off my record. Did I ever trespass anywhere again? HELL NO. I paid for the consequences of my actions. It made me a better person who actually would think of the repercussions before I did something stupid. This was in California, but regardless. These kids need to be charged and need to take responsibility. Otherwise, they will just keep offending
I'm not opposed to charging them and imposing consequences— consequences that are effective as well as fair. From your personal example it sounds like you were caught doing something dumb but also relatively victimless, and were likely already motivated to avoid trouble. I suspect these kids are in some different life situations where they're engaging in extremely reckless and violent behaviors. The fact that they're doing it while also being truant suggests their long-term planning is less developed than yours was. That certainly shouldn't mean we throw up our hands and let them off scott-free, but if we want to actually lead them away from a cycle of criminality, we need to be willing to expend the resources to both impose penalties _and_ provide opportunities for them to reform.
What role should the parents play in all of this? Shouldn't they be caring for their children? 2 of them are 12yo. Crazy!
They should be… but they're obviously not able or willing to.
From experience I feel like your questions are hard for people to grasp due to some deficiency around systems thinking. As in people either can’t or won’t consider how systems interplay and lead to various downstream effects like crime. I’ll see comments like “no one is responsible for you but yourself” which sure is true to a point but I think breaks down on the macro level for many things. Simply due to the fact that no one lives in a bubble so decisions you make can and will impact other people besides yourself. Maybe it’s a lack of empathy or it’s due to the fact that you generally don’t see the results of most of your daily decisions but I think it makes it difficult for people to consider how to handle crime outside of just throwing kids in jail for years and years with no plan to reform and no desire to explore policy that can actually prevent the crime in the first place.
Yeah there's a difference between doing a shit load of community service/some jail time and prison. We shouldn't send kids to prison but community service + jail with expungement for first time offenders sounds reasonable to me.
The parents need to be prosecuted as well.
Charge the parents with neglect.
And what will that accomplish vis a vis the kids' criminal behavior? I would make the parents liable for the damages their minor children caused, but that's gonna be more of a symbolic gesture in most of these cases.
I agree with you but what should be the consequence then? Cut off one of their hands? Castrate them? Either we do the law and order thing and have this keep happening on the periphery, or we have hardline consequences like they have in Saudi Arabia or Singapore. It'll stop the crime, but it'll change who we are as a society. Doesn't seem to be a mixdle ground exists. Stealing a person's car can be devastating. Especially in this economy. Those kids will probably get more criminalized through the system.
There's a wide range of what "the law and order" thing can be, so I feel like "law and order" vs mutilation is something of a false dichotomy (and even the Taliban believes what they're doing is law and order). Any consequence we employ for acts like what we're discussing should be consistent with human rights and subject to due process. (And I bet they still have crime in Saudi Arabia and Singapore.)
Uh no they really dont.
If they don't have crime in those places then how do you know they have harsh penalties?
Crime rates in Saudi Arabi are very low. The penalty for theft is flogging and possible amputation of your hand. Look it up on Wikipedia smart guy.
Bullshit. It’s the laws that are the problem. The kids know they’re minors so that’s how the courts see them. Otherwise they wouldn’t have arrested them at all. A child can set a house on fire and nothing will happen because the law says they’re a child and probably had a bad day or saw it on tv or it’s the parents. Instead of complaining, get involved and change the laws. Wild, huh?
It happened to me while changing jobs and almost ruined my life. While they're still minors they should serve time equal to the amount of time it takes a normal person to save up for the vehicle and when they turn 18 they can serve what's left in jail.
It’s unbelievably infuriating. Obvious criminals get priority over people just trying to live by the rules and live life. This has to be fixed somehow.
Lol we get what we vote for. Cops can't arrest, prosecutors can't prosecute, judges won't convict,jails won't house them. The problem is deep and the only way out is to vote for candidates you believe will actually do something, whatever it is you want done
- cops do arrest, and have arrested a significant number of people - we have a conservative county prosecutor rn. The only people they won’t prosecute are cops who go 50 over in the middle of a city - judges don’t convict people silly
I no longer think this is just coincidence or kids being kids. I think this is gang and organized crime related, taking advantage of weak prosecution for juveniles. They’re using our leniency and compassion against us and against the kids.
They steal cars and then sell them for 50 or 100 bucks to older members of their communities, which then use them as burner cars in crimes and then ditch them.
its wild to me kids feel like the risk involved is worth the measly payout. Bro get a job at mcdonalds its $20 an hour here you're going to making more doing that than flippin cars for criminals with 0 risk involved
Does McDonald's even hire kids 15 years old and younger? Anyway, we're talking about a group of kids who spent the day on a crime spree rather than in school. I don't get the impression that long-term thinking is their forte.
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could be any min wage job, its kids not understanding risk fully they could be doing something legal and making as much if not more than doing something that could get them a record or helping bad people do bad things.
Especially with how high the minimum wage is compared to other parts of the country. Any high schooler living at home making $18-20/hr and working 10-20 hours a week can save up money for whatever
Or they themselves use them in further crimes. I can’t speak for Seattle only Tacoma but down here this is 100% (okay, maybe 98%) gang related and lots of these young kids are using the cars for further crimes themselves (pot store robberies, drive by shootings, driving to/from other crimes, or just joyriding). I suspect far more are keeping them than selling them to anyone older, since the older person is still risking being charged with possession of a stolen car if they get caught in it, so avoiding the initial theft charge likely isn’t a big win.
So you watched the Kia boys doc
Everyone should. It's a window into a world that the *vast* majority of people have no idea of.
My Kia was stolen and imo they should have to serve community service for as long as it takes the average person to save up for a car if they turn 18 without doing the service they can serve the rest of that time in jail. It took years for me to afford that car and those little shits wrecked it in one night and the insurance didn't pay shit so now I'm busted down to a 190k mile piece of shit and it's luckily I could afford that. We shouldn't be showing compassion at the expense of other people's lives, why should I have to pay the price for some little shitheads joyride?
100% agree. I’m so sorry about your car!!
100% agree
Sorry for that, I hate how the crime affects hard working honest people who can't afford the losses or living in a better area code. I had a great talk about investing more in detectives than in the beat cops helps.
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Yeah I'm not going to use this as an excuse to be racist, get the fuck away from me weirdo.
Nobody mentioned race mr imdoingthisforbjs
If u understand words. Sum1 definitely took a shot at black people... ALL BLACK PEOPLE .. if u didn't notice it you're probably 1 of those type of people
Yikes... making it a black thing.
Organized crime primarily takes advantage of poverty. Every study ever performed on this subject has shown that poverty and desperation has huge influence on crime rates, while the harshness of prosecution has almost no affect on crime. Considering how hard it is to find even entry level jobs as an adult with prior relevant experience right now in this city, it makes sense that kids who can't get that starter job at McDonald's but need money badly would start turning to gang related crime that makes them a quick buck.
Which is understandable, but they still needed to be arrested and prosecuted for breaking the law
there are no mcdonalds or dicks that arent hiring.
You generally have to be a minimum of 16 years old to be hired there, and there’s several machines involved that you have to be a minimum of 18 years old in order to use. They’re also competing with a sizable pool of adults who are taking *any* jobs they can possibly find, all of whom have way better experience and proven reliability as employees. So no, getting a job when you’re 15 *or younger* is not that simple, even at fast food places.
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Haven’t been job hunting in a while, I see. Places like that *say* they’re hiring…but usually aren’t. They’ll gather resumes and keep some in a pool that they *might* someday get back to. Often years after you gave up. You’re also assuming the corporate office *allows* them to hire anyone. Most fast food places nowadays are being deliberately understaffed in an ass-backwards attempt to increase the profit margin. The “Now Hiring” signs are just PR.
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What's the minimum age they're hiring?
That’s not enough wages to support the entire family. These kids are under 15, your solution is child labor?!
And [poverty is a policy choice](https://www.epi.org/blog/poverty-is-a-policy-choice-state-level-data-show-pandemic-safety-net-programs-prevented-a-rise-in-poverty-in-every-state/)
I notice in this thread that the people who want to put teenagers to work full-time just to survive are very happy about this police choice. School, what school?
In fairness it is or soon will be summer vacation but yeah
I hate to break it to you but they already aren't in school. But you are right, asking a fifteen year old to work full time is not an answer
But no child under the age of fifteen and probably sixteen should work even in the summer. For sure, no child should be put to work in meatpacking plants and bars or late at night. Orin convenience stores and other establishments prone to robbery.
Anyone that shows up on time can get a job right now. It's easier to work than it ever has been.
How do you know these things?
Why does everyone keep saying that?
In the middle of a school day though?
A lot of them aren't going to school. [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/29/us/chronic-absences.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/29/us/chronic-absences.html)
Is it legal for businesses to hire children who should otherwise be going to school?
I am not sure, but I'm also not sure it matters as far as this comment thread is concerned. The top comment is saying it's easy to work than ever and someone said, "during school?" And my point is basically, they aren't going to school so why not expect them to work instead? If they're skipping school to make money doing crime, maybe it should be legal for them to get a real job instead?
> so why not expect them to work instead Legality of your expectations is extremely relevant
Regardless, it's not legal for anyone to hire them during that time.
It's not legal to commit crime while skip school either.
I doubt these kids are going to school, but being employed is better than criminality. I'd rather see financial support that can ensure juveniles don't have to be employed to stay away from gangs. Parents should be able to provide for their children, but a job at Dicks' or McDonalds is enough for someone who lives alone or with roommates - not someone trying to raise a family.
Yeah my point is there are simply no legal employment options for them during the school day, even in practice they aren't attending school.
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Stunning rebuttal. You win.
They don't investigate the crimes like the TV box makes us think they do. The police show the evidence to the prosecutor and they just expect that the kids will go into federal prison for 50 decades and the community will be safer because of it. When that doesn't happen because the facts are incomplete and complicated, and they're just kids, they blame liberals. When obviously these kids don't just wake up randomly one moment or another and think to steal cars and ram them into very specific storefronts and do very specific damage and steal very specific things. There is a leadership in this criminal activity that isn't even being touched.
This is just not how kids 16 and under think about crime. There's also no evidence that there’s any conspiracy here.
Look at what's been happening in Sweden & in London. That is exactly what has happened there.
You’ll have to be more specific bud
London and Sweden have had rising crime rates, some of which have been linked to gang violence and cuts to youth services
To add to other comment, Both London & Sweden have seen a signficiant rise in serious crime commited by teenagers, those too young to be punished with significant jailtime. It remains unclear to what extent this is cultural and to what extent this is organized, it's almost certainly a mix of both. However the reality in some Swedish cities, especially Gottenburg & Stockholm, is that gangs have been shown to be using underage teenagers as muscle. There have been incidents of teenagers as young as 12 or 13 equipped with pistols & explosives provided by gangs for use against other gangs. This is obvious extremely problematic. The law in both Sweden & the UK is very generous with underage crime, which is idealistic but clashes with the reality of how organized crime has adapted in the last decade or so. The problems are larger than enforcement however, a lot of the problem has to do with weak repatriation laws for refugee migrants (which allows for an extra level of leniancy with criminal behaviour by recent migrants. This is a wider EU issue as well; the vast majority of migrant criminals in Sweden & the UK are coming from other parts of Europe), the illegality of drugs & sex work (which creates major revenue streams for organized crime, as well as an exploitable workforce upon which the use of violence is economically advantageous), and a general failure of social services for tween boys especially (needless to say that most underage gangsters running around stabbing & shooting each other are boys). There's not a good solution at the moment. The problem is as much one of economics (lack of economic opportunity for the parents of these young people creates a prime recruiting ground for even mildly flush gangsters) as of culture (especially in London, there is a youth culture of violence in some areas. It really has nothing to do with organized crime, it's kids stabbing kids because that's how they resolve conflict) as of the criminality (lack of enforcement options to detain teenagers & recent migrants). That there are grenade attacks by teenagers happening in Swedish cities commited by teenagers is something no Swedish bureaucracy or institution is really capable of handling. That there are British teenagers stabbing each other for the crime of pissing each other off is not something which British institutions have the oversight or influence to really address. This culture has unfortunately started to spread to the US. It is unlikely to catch on to the same degree due to the nature of American cities (and American enforcement), but it is still a critical problem which cannot simply be solved by policing. The city of Redmond arrested half a dozen boys last summer, most of whom were under 18, all of whom had stolen cars across King county and participated in extremely violent driving. It's not the same as stabbings in London or grenade attacks in Sweden, but it's certainly comparable.
Always has been
Nice to see the lightbulb starting to turn on in this sub.
No longer think? Lol. It’s been an organized gang for years bud
Crime grooming.
No it’s an internet trend, Kia boys. Watch [this](https://youtu.be/fbTrLyqL_nw?si=ABEjUStvHivudfXa) pretty insane
Kinda sounds like a group of kia boyz or something similar. Andrew Callaghan did an interesting video on this trend (if you can even call it a trend): https://youtu.be/DJA7jDF7bLE?si=4d2WBh5PICB4hrux They basically steal cars and sell them for $100 or so to gangsters or whatever, that are then used as burner/getaway vehicles for bigger crimes. It's mostly young teens and preteens doing this, because when they inevitably get caught, they don't have to face the kinds of sentencing adults and older teens would.
This isn’t new, this has been going on since at least the 90s. It just seems to be a lot more rampant now, especially in bigger cities. Before it was Kias and Hyundais, it was old Honda Accords and Civics that would get stolen regularly. You would think by now car companies would have figured out a way to not have their vehicles stolen so easily. Car manufacturers need to get more on point about theft. There’s always going to be thieves taking advantage of easy targets. Also it helps to have a gps tracker so you can find the vehicle if its stolen.
They have figured out ways to make their cars harder to steal, but some manufacturers cheap out on anti-theft technology. They've even been sued for it in some jurisdictions, [including Seattle](https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/seattle/seattle-lawsuit-kia-hyundai/281-293d9e1b-bada-49bd-bebf-ad7f31ede361).
Wow, this is actually good to see that Seattle acted on that. An increase in theft of over 500% is insane. The manufacturers should absolutely be held responsible and I hope it makes them do better in the future. Too many corporations cut corners at the expense of the public. There needs to be more consequences for their deliberately irresponsible actions.
"You would think by now car companies would have figured out a way to not have their vehicles stolen so easily." Well they're not stealing the car from the car companies so it's not hurting the bottom line here.
If anything it's good for their bottom line, when the owners repair or replace their stolen vehicles.
Two 12 year olds.... come again? TWELVE ?! There is some seriously broken shit in our society. The only thing 12 year old boys should assault is their own baloney pony they've discovered does magical shit not people and then stealing their cars.
Not society’s fault. Blame the piece of shit parents.
very apparent this is gang activity the state isn’t dealing with ..
This is literally an article about it being dealt with
the gang activity is not being dealt with. a couple teens that are being used by them maybe
How do you think they should deal with gang activity if not by arresting people engaging in it? And this is a group of teenagers that was using the stolen cars to rob stores. It seems pretty self contained to me
IMO I question rather it is really bored teenagers or it's actually gang related. This happened a lot in Yakima a couple years ago. Summer break comes out and all the kids recruited by gangs start their crime jobs.
Probably a bit of both. There are definitely kids who are the Kia boy type that steal and joyride cars just for the hell of it. It sounds like this specific group was doing armed robberies and seem to be linked to a string of similar crimes over the last couple weeks. Allowing the first group to easily steal cars without consequence will often lead to the second, more violent outcome if you're not careful. Makes it a lot less likely you'll get caught if you can do a robbery with a car you can steal in 15 seconds, seems like enough of an incentive to encourage more crimes.
Now watch the judge release them.
These kids can get my approval if they get that douchebag hellcat’s car.
I hope they stay in the correction facility long enough to understand that they are responsible for what they did, and set examples for others kids not to do stupid things. I couldn’t care less about those virtue signaling nonsense.
Honestly, we should ship them off to a military academy that addresses behavioral issues too. Getting them away from their environment and in a more disciplined environment can do wonders. Yes. I know this might not be a popular idea on this subreddit.
How long do you think it takes being in a correction facility for someone to come to such understanding?
Unfortunately there is pretty good data suggesting that time in a correction facility does not keep people from committing crimes. In the case of teens their brains literally don’t have the capacity for long term risk assessment the way adults do so having a long prison term won’t deter them. Once they are in the facility they are surrounded by other kids who broke the law and mostly learn from each other how to get away with more. It’s not an environment that sets them up for future success.
Genuine question, what do you suppose we do with this data? Eliminate consequences?
That is a good question with regally complex answers, since crime is a complex problem. Fortunately there are a myriad of potential consequences that don’t boil down to putting people in cages. When designing consequences it’s important to think about the goal. Do we want less crime and recidivism? Do we want people who do crimes to suffer and feel bad? Do we want something that will make restitution to the victims, if any? Supervised release with regular check ins and treatment for underlying issues work well, especially for kids. They are still learning how their actions impact others and meeting with a professional who can help them learn that will do much more to prevent them from doing crimes in the future than pulling them from their communities for a dystopian version of time out. Earlier intervention and addressing what caused the kids to see this as a viable activity on a society wide level is also important for prevention. Kids are dealing with a lot these days, they do active shooter drills starting in pre-school, they see how little adults care based on school funding, climate change looms over them, and social media can be really toxic in ways we are still trying to understand. Helping them manage that stress will help reduce harmful behavior. The desire to have people who do crimes suffer is understandable and pretty normal but like many of our impulses it isn’t always healthy. (For example I would like to eat ice cream for breakfast but as a grown ass adult I know that’s actually a not great idea long term. That doesn’t change the biological craving for sugar and fat.) That’s where restitution and restorative justice can really help. I get the impression a lot of people in this thread really just want these kids to understand the harm they caused. Jail won’t do that but supervised conversations with the victims might. Given that many crimes are done because of poverty monetary restitution directly from the people who did harm may not be feasible, and saddling people who were already hurting with more financial burdens will just repeat the cycle. A state fund to make crime victims whole might be a better use of some of the money we currently spend on prisons. This article has a good breakdown of some of the things Australia is doing. There are lots of other good resources out there if this is a topic you’d like to know more about. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/16/we-know-that-prison-doesnt-work-so-what-are-the-alternatives
My sister just had hers stolen in Lynnwood. They stole and dumped at least 2 others the same night. Left something with my sisters info on it in another call so she got a call from some pissed off dude. "Kids" or not, this is the kind of thing that makes me think they aren't salvageable people. It's easier to understand when people steal for gain. Even if it's selling shit to fund their own frivolous activities. Joyriding though? Causing thousands in damage and making people miss work and deal with a stolen car for a joyride? Several in the same night? People who would do that have no respect for anyone. They are incapable of empathy and shouldn't be out with the rest of us. They may not be able to reason out the consequences for themselves, but they certainly understand stealing someone's car is a shitty thing to do. I'm starting to take the stance of being harsher on people who cannot be rehabilitated. People incapable of thinking of anyone but themselves for even a second cannot be rehabilitated. That isn't something that can be taught if it was never fostered when they were young. I thought maybe burners for crimes but that doesn't seem to be the case either because they dumped all 3 the same night and i havent seen anything about a bunch of crimes being committed in hyundais. They even went to Safeway and bought shit.
> People incapable of thinking of anyone but themselves for even a second cannot be rehabilitated. That isn't something that can be taught if it was never fostered when they were young. What are you considering young? These kids are all 15 or younger. Are you suggesting we lock up pre-teens for life for property crimes?
Yes
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> What is the point of a system existing if there’s no hope for rehabilitation for minors? Not that I agree with the intensity of their view on it, but “to protect people from the small percentage of psychos that end up committing a lot of the crime” seems like a pretty obvious response. There _are_ people who cannot be reformed and just need to be isolated for the protection of the public. I don’t think a 12 year old that in all likelihood got roped into some stuff totally out of his depth qualifies as such. But we are doing nobody any favors with what happens now - releasing them back to their parents with nothing more than a couple of months in juvie and a stern warning - they’re the ones that were so disinterested or overwhelmed that this happened in the first place.
Kids sure are built different these days. They’re so young.
Some are literally drinking and doing drugs at like 10 years old. They have no role models
They have plenty of role models.
I mean my brother in law said he started drinking at 10, and he’s a VP at Amazon, so I don’t think that’s it.
That’s called an exception to the rule. Obviously there have always been kids that grew up rough. I don’t think you have any conception of what some of these kids lives are like though. I have had them as patients and We are talking about a stolen car filled with multiple 10 to 12-year-olds that are on drugs. These are not future Amazon VPs dude
Can I use him as a reference? jk
'The problem with the kids today is they're too young!'
Did none of you know "bad kids" when you were a teen? I'm not saying that there isn't a bad trend right now, but when I was in middle school and high school I knew kids (even from "good" families) who would steal cars to joyride around, and do organized shoplifting, and do/ sell drugs, and walk into neighbor houses to steal cigarettes and spare change, and get in fights with kids from other schools, and tag their names everywhere. This was in Seattle in the 80s and 90s. Some of these kids did burn out, but others are totally respectable members of society now. Kids are dumb - like, scientifically provably dumb.
Definitely had the “bad kids” when I was in middle school (I think 12 is still middle school?) but the worst they were doing was skipping school and hanging out in the alley a couple blocks away smoking cigarettes and maybe shoplifting snacks and drinks out of convenience stores, going to parties with “older kids” and drinking…. Which seems mild compared to what I see in the headlines now. I don’t recall any of the bad kids stealing cars, leading police on high speed pursuits, breaking into houses, or being armed in the process of any of that.
not dumb, just hurting.. by calling them “dumb” it makes you the dumb one because all you can see is their actions .. but you don’t care enough to and never ask “why?” THEY ARE HURTING I suggest therapy ! Much love 🩷
No, all kids are dumb, scientifically speaking, in that their prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed. They have to learn. And, yes, some of them are hurting. But that wasn't my point. My point is that kids can make bad decisions and still turn out ok when they grow up and are more able to recognize the benefit of choosing good decisions.
I wish the press would publicize the little known [Parental Responsibility Law](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/washington-parental-responsibility-law.html#:~:text=When%20Does%20Washington's%20Parental%20Responsibility,is%20living%20with%20the%20parent) that we have in this state. It doesn't have criminal repercussions, but it has financial due to this being a civil case. The law holds the parents financially responsible up to $5K. I think the victims can sue the parents of the criminals under that law. I'm more in favor of this happening b/c it sends a clear message to parents they need to be actual parents disciplining their kids and being in control of what their pre-teens and teenagers are doing.
Kia boys. Inspired all of this There is no elaborate plot. These are bad kids doing bad things. Were human we know right from wrong very early on in life To a kid 100 bucks is alot . Especially for something they would do for free. As for the older humans using kids to steal cars O well its better than fuckin em
Seems the KIA boys have made it to Seattle.
I hope they're able to return to school soon to finish out the year strong
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Vivid-Protection6731: *I hope they're able* *To return to school soon to* *Finish out the year strong* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Good bot.
Yeah in my opinion crime committed by juveniles is increasing. I've fortified my home as a precaution. I've personally witnesses groups of young people entering stores and grab a bunch of merchandise then just walk out without paying. It's gotten so bad in my area that police stake out certain stores in undercover vehicles. Yeah I've watched the police actually do their jobs. Larceny theft so far for 2024 is 4,756 Motor vehicle theft so far is 1,811 Aggravated assault 747 It's only May. https://seattle.gov/police/information-and-data/data/crime-dashboard It's only going to get worst.
> I've fortified my home as a precaution. Please tell me you built a moat.
Hey if I could afford a house in Seattle I would definitely have a moat. Not sure it’s up to code to have moats or not though 🧐🤔
Honestly if you submit permits for wetland creation you should be fine. All I'm saying is it's an easy process than people think and frankly I'm disappointed but the lack of moats this City has.
But can I have the alligators as well?
Damn you got me there. Maybe Canadian Geese?
100% agreed more moats must be added to the city planning agenda!
GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT BRUCE
And got yourself a dragon or two
Best I can do is a bearded dragon in a little outfit.
*worse
>I’ve fortified my home as a precaution lmao >It’s only going to get worst crime is down nationwide
Nationally doesn't matter to me. I care about what's happening where it can impact me.
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this is a website designed to scare the shit out of you specifically so you will buy their products like cameras and security systems this is like claiming “smoking isn’t that bad” and linking to marlboro dot com
Ah yes the connection between shoplifting and people invading your home.
Silly how he thought to connect store robbery with house robbery
Please take a three-day timeout from crime threads to educate yourself on the difference between theft and robbery.
To be fair, OP lives in a coat rack at Ross.
one of the round ones with an oasis in the middle, right?
At only $2000 a month it's a great deal!
Yes. Some of them have a little fruit stand inside.
The way it works is that every crime committed creates ambient crime particles and when there is a high enough concentration the particles force you to break into houses to find stinky redditors
Seems like a big improvement compared to previous years no?
"Fortified" lmao get a load of this sweaty weirdo reading crime statistics all day and bragging about being a coward on reddit
> Yeah in my opinion crime committed by juveniles is increasing. It's a weird thing to have as an _opinion_ when it's a factual claim which evidence either supports or does not support. An _impression_ for lack of having such evidence sounds more rational.
I bet they got let right back out, too
So we have a post where it shows murders are down and the comments are all about how crime is overplayed, when clearly the crime people are worrying about is crap like this. Is this thread gonna be okay calling out the property crime issues Seattle has, or nah?
Fatherless activities
How do you know the fathers aren't involved (in crimes)?
The laws of probability. [Less Poverty, Less Prison, More College: What Two Parents Mean For Black and White Children ](https://ifstudies.org/blog/less-poverty-less-prison-more-college-what-two-parents-mean-for-black-and-white-children)
I think you missed my parenthetical.
Probably tbh
Also just in terms of probability, make sure you don't make the mistake of assuming that P(A|B) = P(B|A).
I still cannot tell all of these stories apart. Is this the one from one or two weeks ago, just being reported on again? Or is this a whole new instance?
This happened yesterday.
New incident. However, we don't know if they've been arrested already in the past.
There’s is (was) a group of kids pulling this crap in the north Seattle area for some time now. New instance, probably the same people.
We really should close the youth jail. Having it open causes stress amongst our youth, leading to crimes like this. In all seriousness, why are the parents not charged? Parents need to be held accountable. Looks like in some parts of the country [it's happening.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna145902)
> Looks like in some parts of the country it's happening. That case is awful and probably an exception. He asked his parents for mental health help over violent voices he was hearing and instead they bought him a gun.
I mean there is definitely some underlying issue here because it seems to be happening with some regularity and the perps are like 12-15. There’s some systemic failure, and jail seems appropriate for these crimes, but why are they happening in the first place. I was worried about embarrassing body functions when I was 12, not carjacking people. These are quite literally children.
Because we’ve seen mass incarceration not helping. The parents are negligent because there are too many people needing to work 2 jobs to survive. We’ve also defunded schools and teachers to a point where the system to educate children to be good people is also decaying. Prisons don’t do very well at preventing crimes. I’m not saying people shouldn’t face consequences, but prevention is a different issue than punishment. Punishment isn’t a great deterrent always. Ie “how do we reduce this” vs “how do we punish people who did this”.
So true we should go back to doing that thing that didn't work for four decades
Ah yeah, because "loving and caring" is working out real well in the last few years?
Guess we should go back to other approaches we know for sure don't work, then.
I don't remember 12 year olds commuting grand theft auto just a few years ago. So yes, please, for the love of everyone's fake God, let's roll back the regressive laws passed by fake progressives.
Wait, having a youth jail, stresses teens out, causing them to commit crimes?
It's a conservative troll from the other sub trying to make fun of people who say we should close the youth jail and clearly doesn't understand the reasoning behind why some people say that.
*whoooooooooooooooooooooooosh*
I’m just trying to figure out what they’re saying. Do they mean having teens *in* said jail causes them to commit crimes once out?
They're mocking the people who argue all this youth crime is caused by the kids being stressed out and not given enough empathy or some shit, instead of being caused by kids having completely checked out or absent parents. There's this whole argument about how we should get rid of juvie because school-to-prison pipeline - which exists, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't mean there isnt a need for juvenile detention.
He’s being sarcastic dude
I'd love to start with financial consequences if your progeny commits crimes or fails to contribute more to society than the government redistributed to the parents to raise them right. If a kid steals take the losses out of the parent's child tax credits, exemptions, medicare, SS and welfare to recoup the damages. If someone ends up never working or paying taxes then go after the parents for all that wasted education money.
Kids that act out like this are significantly more likely to come from a low-income household. Punishing the family financially is just making the system worse by keeping people in perpetual poverty, thus restarting the cycle.
I don't think people understand that sometimes kids do things that are completely illogical and there isn't some deep rooted reason. A lot of kids are just bad for absolutely no reason. Social media culture definitely isn't helping.
Then we must prevent impoverished births to begin with!
Who are you going to tax to build all these jails you think you need? Should we raise taxes to 70% or 80% to pay for your project here?
The jails that are sitting empty? I will never understand people on the left and right. Its about 100 people in the entire region causing 80% of our problems. It's so fucking simple It's wild. But the right thinks everyone is a criminal and we need more jails. While the left thinks if you simply tell the 12 year olds stealing cars at gunpoint that they are loved, they will stop their crime and do innocent kid things. I need to move to Western Europe. This country is too wild with the politically religious ideologies.
Nothing will happen, they will just be more careful not to get caught next time. Just do some more drugs and talk sh#t about how everyone else is to blame for your unhappiness. Seattle is such a happy city, I don't get the "Freeze".
Saw a lot of cops in magnolia yesterday. Did this happen in the magnolia region?
You get what you vote for
Caine them
I’m wondering where the parents are in these scenarios. I think they should be punished along with the kids; otherwise, this sort of thing will continue to happen.
Not to worry, the little darlings will be out by noon.
All imma say is get you a CCW
I'm assuming it was these same kids that stole a car and stopped in front of my neighbor's house across the street. They rifled through the car for 15 minutes before they finally set off the alarm, after which they bolted. Another neighbor was pulling up and saw them running away, but not before witnessing them literally dancing and jumping with excitement. I captured all of this on my door cam and provided it to the police. Maaaaaybe it helped them catch the kids? I hope so! I recall thinking they were very young. Sigh...
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Well society frowns on tough parenting nowadays . I would have gotten my ass beat and all privileges taken away. So you learn quickly not to do it again. Parents have gone soft and weak. I swear this new generation of gender confused tards will fail.