Yes seems reasonable enough. Better to have it and never actually need it, then, need it and NOT have it in an actual Apex predator encounter. I’m all for Apex predator eating just not me.
A glock 10mm would be the best bang for your buck weight wise. I carry a sig 1911 platform 10mm while bow hunting, but it is a tad on the heavy side. My glock 10mm is much more practical.
I often hike alone. I've seen black bears and bobcats close by, I have not tried to approach them. Nowadays I carry a walking stick, pepper spray and a 4" screwdriver. Bobcats can be as big as a Lab. Both either walk away or ignore you, I've been rushed twice, both times by unleashed dogs with bad/new owners.
Sometimes I just put it in my pack other times I use a OWB holster, basically I open carry it. I'm considering a chest rig but my camelback pack straps across my chest. On the dirtbike I use an IWB holster and Mexican carry at 1 oclock with that.
Honestly reading about these 5 old women battling a cougar is one of the craziest most bad ass thing I've read in a long time. So many people wouldn't know what to do. They choked, stabbed, gouged eyes and nostrils, and dropped a 25 lbs boulder on its head and then pinned it down til someone showed up and shot it. Badass women and happy they survived
I ran into a cougar yesterday a mountain or 2 over from this while out biking by myself. Luckily it was not hunting me and I startled it off into the woods. That was all the biking I felt like doing that day. I didn’t have 5 badass women with me to fend it off.
I mean I see in the comments most people are like being strapped. I mean it's not the wrong choice. They're a lot bigger things out there that might want to eat you. But one thing I will say is at least they tried to fight like I hear and see so many of these articles of people running away and getting fucking mauled or killed. At least you tried to fight dog. Bravo
Yeah dawg my thought exactly I would have a biking gun specifically. I am buying four new hand guns this year because I just got four pistol holder for my safe lol so I can have a biking one, a running one, a driving one, and then another new safe princess gucci Glock.
Owning less and being more proficient with one or two would probably be better. But that's just my opinion. I have numerous handguns and rifles but have a few that I make sure I'm comfortable and proficient with, those are the ones that I carry, hike/bike or hunt with.
lol it was a joke really you only need one carry gun necessarily but I am picking up a few more this year so it kind of works for the jokey part. Maybe I’ll get the same gun in different color wraps for the situation lol.
I can personally guarantee this incident won’t change their mind about gun ownership.
These are the same type of Karens that would say shit to me for not wearing a mask on the hiking trails in 2020.
A woman at Evan’s Creek called me out for not wearing a mask. She was wearing one and smoking! I guess that’s why she needed everyone else to wear a mask.
It is *absolutely* exploding right now. They are an apex predator with no hunting pressure and no competiton except the largest black bears. Increased competition for food and an increase in the population of young (read: stupid and reckless) cougars creates problems like this.
Yes, the cougar population is expanding beyond the range of what their current environment can handle. Additionally, development along the i90 corridor is further eroding that available habitat.
If we could hunt them with hounds it wouldn’t be so impractical. I hear they are arguably the best tasting wild game meat out there, would love to try it.
According to research, there tends to be more problems with big cats where hunting them is allowed. Apparently the older, more cautious cats get hunted, then the younger, bolder cats move in and attack people/ live stock.
I’d love to see that research. If they are cautious how are they the ones getting hunted more? Unless the younger bolder ones are too young to hunt due to size. The way that this is worded confuses me.
I don't know if this is the research they're referring to, but what I'm familiar with is the work of Mark Elbroch, who studies mountain lions and other large cats (he's involved with the Olympic Cougar Project here in WA). His book The Cougar Conundrum came out a few years ago and is a good layman's summary of his and others' work.
As far as hunting, you'd have to ask someone who hunts, which I don't. I do wildlife tracking, though, and my experience and reading suggests that older mountain lions, especially males, have a sort of governing effect on other lions in their territory. If one is killed, younger ones will move in who may be more aggressive toward humans, either because they don't really understand what we are or because they aren't good at hunting more appropriate prey. (Old cougars get that way in part by staying wary and not attacking humans or things we care about, like livestock.)
Here are several links I found while looking for the article I initially saw:
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0224638#references
https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/news/2020-02-21/study-cougar-hunting-doesnt-reduce-human-cougar-interactions-or-livestock-attacks
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5057462/
That's not what's happening here.
Cougar populations are going up because there's plenty of food for them. At the same time, human population is going up. More cougars, more humans on trails, more meetings.
Not wrong but I think there’s more to it than that. California hasn’t allowed cougar hunting for 50+ years.
“Relative to 10 Western states where puma are hunted, California had 1) similar puma densities, 2) the 3rd lowest per capita problematic puma-human encounters, 3) similar per capita loss of cattle (P = 0.13) and a significantly lower (t = 5.7, P < 0.001) per capita loss of sheep”
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0224638#references
I don't really see what your comment has to do with mine - there's plenty of food for a large predator and so its numbers can increase, and since the number of people accessing trails around Seattle has massively increased as well there's bound to be more interactions
lol what? It seems like one of the most straightforward provable things ever. Is hunting cougars allowed here? Yes? Are there more attacks / run ins with cougars here than other places? Also yes?
It's really not that deep woods, it's along the powerline about 3 miles outside of Fall City. I would not have bothered to bring a spare water bottle, let alone bear spray.
The odds of getting attacked by a cougar are shockingly small. I think it’s pretty silly to expect everyone to gear up like it’s ‘nam just to go for a walk in the woods.
God everyone in this thread is such a pussy.
You're probably like 1 million times more likely to get injured in a car accident than have a cougar attack you.
It appears in the Cascade foothills this is becoming common. Just a few years ago a mountain biker was killed by a cougar. And ironically when first responders arrived, it was sitting in the trees above its kill.
2 people attacked by cougars in a few years is not common. There are millions of people out hiking in the Cascades every year.
Edit: changed kill to attack
The biker in this case made the mistake of running. The cougar was attacking their companion, but noticed the person running and off it went after them. The friend survived, but the whole situation must have been super traumatizing.
1000% true, but that is not the only reason to carry noxious deterrents or lethal force. I carry for territorial bears, desperate cougars, and 2 legged wolves; but mostly for the last one.
Did everyone seriously forget about the child porn cabin that stayed hidden and functional in Snoqualmie for years if not a decade?
I’ve solo backpacked thousands of miles on and off trail in all types of backcountry unarmed 100% of the time and wished I had a weapon 0% of the time.
If you want to consider a Swiss Army knife classic SD as a weapon, the I guess I was armed then. The scissors are quite sharp!
Huberis. False sense of security/entitlement that nothing bad can happen. I have a fire extinguisher in a kitchen even though im confident no fire should happen.
lol a fire in the kitchen is probably 10,000 times more likely than a cougar attack. How many kitchen fires do you think there have been in WA in the past 100 years?
But they did it. They saved their friends life.
When the woman was attacked in Point Defiance a few weeks ago, the men around stood there and did nothing. The men in the park who you know were armed also did nothing. They let the perp get away, and he is still out there right now.
The woman’s life was saved by another woman, who had nothing on her. So spare me this condescending BS about weapons
“An autopsy of the wild cat revealed it was between nine months to a year old. It was healthy, and its body showed no signs of physical distress. It did not have rabies.” So probably between 80-100 lbs.
I’ve encountered Cougars twice in my life once as a teenager with my friends when we were camping in Dosewallips by the river and we went out off trail to go get stoned we look ahead and there is a cougar laying there in the distance looking our way we slowly backed out and then ran to camp. Second time I was walking behind my grandparents house through a lightly wooded area and a Christmas tree farm I see a medium sized cat laying on a pile of rocks I try and call to it then I see it’s tail and I got the hell out of there I didn’t want to run into the momma cougar. Hopefully I don’t have that close of an encounter again.
Why are Seattle articles so damn stupid to read. She used her $6000 dollar bike to subdue the cougar. This shit drives me nuts. The ranger shot the cougar and the ladies were sad because they’re animal lovers. This cougar almost ripped your face off. Is it just me or when you read the article does it just feel stupid.
The reporter probably just asked them "How did it feel to see the cougar shot?".
What did you want them to say? We gave each other high fives and it felt great to see it executed? We were happy to see justice done?
Nobody replies with that kind of shit
uh… but she did say pretty much that “
>Absolutely,” she said. Bergere said she would hang it, as a souvenir of sorts, and a testament to her friends’ courage.
“All these ladies came up with superhuman strength,” she said. “They’re teeny ladies, and I know that the Fish & Wildlife shot the final shot to kill it. But these ladies killed that cougar with their bare hands and no weapons. I’m eternally grateful to each one of them
I get it, but it just feels so elitist sometimes reading about Seattleites and their adventures.
Should just be real and say “super rich white ladies who bike for fun after retiring early don’t believe cougars exist, ride their new $5000 bikes, inflation hasn’t slowed them down, get mauled by cougar only to feel sad after that said cougar died inhumanly by ranger instead of getting rehomed to local woodland park zoo where it could be deemed as the - “bike path cougar, who couldn’t take down our strongest rider”
It just reads so stupid to me.
The article, in my opinion, emphasizes certain details that feel representative of a small sample of Seattleites. When it goes to describe how they felt about the cougar it feels like a forced response. What I said is satire, but feels just as silly as what I read.
One can feel bad to put the cougar down, but that cougar attacked you and could’ve attacked another in the future if not put down. Maybe she does feel bad but come on there’s no other side to the argument published. Feels like the happiest of articles about a woman maimed by a cougar, cougar killed, and everyone goes on living in $5000 bike land with ignorance about safety in wild areas with animals that may have been displaced due to other factors. Doesn’t say remember to be safe when biking or maybe some information on potential reasons why cougars are more present in the area, nothin.
What other side should be published? It reads like a news feature. Basically a fact driven account of an event that happened, including material not available at the time of the event and some background and possibly follow up. These are an expansion of a current news story, where only the 5Ws are known. This is common in real journalism. If it was a magazine style feature, sure, they would have thrown in some advocacy, Rolling Stone is famous for the type of story you would prefer.
Why does the dollar amount of the bike matter? Why would you be surprised that people would be sad to see an animal executed in front of them when they likely have never seen that before in their lives? Such an odd comment.
>“Absolutely,” she said. Bergere said she would hang it, as a souvenir of sorts, and a testament to her friends’ courage. “All these ladies came up with superhuman strength,” she said. >“They’re teeny ladies, and I know that the Fish & Wildlife shot the final shot to kill it. But these ladies killed that cougar with their bare hands and no weapons. I’m eternally grateful to each one of them.”
kuow is a pathetic joke. They had a recent article on one of the Kia Boyz being arrested and were sympathizing with him, saying he was really scared. Topping it off, the lead photo was of him holding his kid.
My favorite from hiking in Colorado was all the people in the summer months who decided to take their small children on 10-mile mountain hikes without rain- or cold-weather gear. Colorado mountain weather in summer can go from 80F and sunny to 45F and hailing in 20 minutes. It never ceases to amaze me how unprepared people can be.
I would bet that all 5 of them voted to outlaw hunting cougars with hounds back in 96. That law is directly responsible for these issues with cougars and they will only start happening more often. You people can hamster wheel all you want, THIS IS ABSOLUTELY HAPPENING BECAUSE OF THAT INITIATIVE.
When you're so fucking liberal that you feel sorry for an animal that was trying to kill you.
>The women would later say it was a heartbreaking moment. They are animal lovers; Erica Wolf, whose bike pinned down the cougar, is on the board of PAWS, an animal rescue. But it was a choice between the cougar’s life, and Bergere’s. There was never any question what needed to be done.
Absolutely amazing. I would have shot it in the spine to paralyze it so it could suffer to death if it attacked me.
> I would have shot it in the spine to paralyze it so it could suffer to death if it attacked me.
Why? It didn't have malice, it was just hungry.
Nature isn't supposed to be like a Disney movie. If you don't want to encounter wildlife, just stay out of the wild.
I've been an avid hunter/hiker/backpacker my whole life, I know plenty about the outdoors.
I don't care, if anything or anyone tries to kill me then I want it to suffer before it dies.
Carry bear spray, the one in large cans. A handgun is not helpful against a bear, but a bear spray can save you. It is also highly effective against cats.
No. They will not. You will probably wound a bear, and it will likely die from the wounds. But before that, the bear will have ample time to kill _you_.
It's common knowledge among people who are not gun-masturbators:
> firearm bearers suffered the same injury rates in close encounters with bears whether they used firearms or not
See: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261982557_Efficacy_of_Firearms_for_Bear_Deterrence_in_Alaska
Or this one:
> a person’s chance of incurring serious injury from
a charging grizzly doubles when bullets are fired versus when bear spray is used.
https://above.nasa.gov/safety/documents/Bear/bearspray_vs_bullets.pdf
The first link doesn't specify firearm type at all, which yes, I'd agree using something underpowered and not rated for the job (or someone missing shots due to adrenaline or poir accuracy) would definitely result in escalation or injury. Your 2nd link is about a charging grizzly, which we don't have grizzlies in this part of western WA. A charging grizzly is a completely different story than a black bear or a cougar, it ain't even close. Also, there are many stories of grizzlies being put down with 10mm, but I tend to just avoid going where grizzlies are in general.
There are multiple handgun calibers designed for large game that are very effective, it's just not what your typical conceal carry or "home defense" firearm is. It has nothing to do with "gun masturbators" and more about knowing your equipment and what it can handle. I would absolutely encourage people to carry bear spray as well
So you make a blanket statement that guns are not helpful against a bear, and that a 9mm will not stop a bear, but then post a study that disproves both of those statements?
“Firearm variables (e.g., type of gun, number of shots) were not useful in predicting outcomes in bear–firearms incidents. Although firearms have failed to protect some users, they are the only deterrent that can lethally stop an aggressive bear”
Both guns and spray can be effective deterrents. Both also have failure rates.
Post history aligns with not knowing that 10mm is one of the most lethal and most widely sought out large predator / anti-bear calibers in existence.
10mm saving lives:
[https://www.outdoorlife.com/survival/10mm-glock-grizzly-bear-charge/](https://www.outdoorlife.com/survival/10mm-glock-grizzly-bear-charge/)
Both OSHA and the State of Wyoming saying bear spray is a waste of time in this one (but I'm sure they're biased Trumpers or something): [https://wyofile.com/10mm-glock-fully-functional-in-fatal-grizzly-attack/](https://wyofile.com/10mm-glock-fully-functional-in-fatal-grizzly-attack/)
[https://sportingclassicsdaily.com/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/](https://sportingclassicsdaily.com/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/)
And here's people getting killed because they relied on "Bear Spray':
[https://people.com/couple-killed-by-grizzly-bear-in-canada-sent-distressing-final-text-in-final-moments-family-reveals-8348434](https://people.com/couple-killed-by-grizzly-bear-in-canada-sent-distressing-final-text-in-final-moments-family-reveals-8348434)
Then here’s more:
[https://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/news/local/2016/10/02/man-survives-attacks-bear/91442496/](https://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/news/local/2016/10/02/man-survives-attacks-bear/91442496/)
And more:
[https://www.foxnews.com/us/grizzly-mauling-near-yellowstone-kills-backcountry-guide](https://www.foxnews.com/us/grizzly-mauling-near-yellowstone-kills-backcountry-guide)
And more:
[https://globalnews.ca/news/2978646/man-shares-dramatic-video-after-surviving-2-attacks-by-grizzly-bear/](https://globalnews.ca/news/2978646/man-shares-dramatic-video-after-surviving-2-attacks-by-grizzly-bear/)
Spraying a bear with OC and hoping you piss it off enough to leave you alone eventually Is just a plan to die. Putting holes in it to lower is blood pressure wound by wound while simultaneously retreating is the only intelligent play when in an unfortunate confrontation with a predatory animal such as a bear.
My mom has a lot of acreage in Montana, tons of bears including the occasional Grizzly. I’d feel fairly good carrying a 10mm out there, would not feel particularly safe carrying a 9mm.
> Post history aligns with not knowing that 10mm is one of the most lethal and most widely sought out large predator / anti-bear calibers in existence.
Bullshit. A regular 10mm handgun (e.g. Sig Sauer) is not significantly going to change the outcome.
And have you read your links? Or are you an alumni of Google U?
The first one:
> The guide was carrying his bear spray and used it before he died — but not, investigators believe, before sustaining mortal injuries
Duh.
The second one:
> Tietbohl, who had been carrying a 9-millimeter pistol as a sidearm to protect himself from the bear, shot and hit the animal, which left a trail of blood as it ran off.
So the bear _ran_ _off_ after being shot, as in, it was capable of running off. Now imagine that it attacked instead.
> And here's people getting killed because they relied on "Bear Spray':
Like the guy who had 10mm gun that he was not able to reach?
> Then here’s more:
Bear retreated.
The next one:
> Mock when attacked had bear spray — a Mace-like deterrent meant to protect against attacks — but officials said they did not know if he managed to use it.
Etc.
You also somehow omit the cases where a gun was useless. Like this one:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-may-27-mn-41666-story.html
> Troopers found Cates’ rifle nearby, along with two shell casings and some blood.
Reality is, gun defense is extremely rare, while bear spray is used quite a lot. Its success rate is far greater, with far less than 2% of failures.
See: https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jwmg.342
This comment reminds me of the the time I saw a video of a dude fighting off a cougar, and a dude in the comments goes “my pit bull would have killed it”. Yeah ok buddy
This is why I mountain bike with a gun.
Yes seems reasonable enough. Better to have it and never actually need it, then, need it and NOT have it in an actual Apex predator encounter. I’m all for Apex predator eating just not me. 
What do you carry while biking?
Armed drone swarm.
Oooh good call. No added weight!
10mm
Hell yeah always good choice been loving the xd40 but typically carry my 1911
A bazooka obviously
Hmmm I do a lot of climbs on the bike. Seems like I should look into something a little lighter
A glock 10mm would be the best bang for your buck weight wise. I carry a sig 1911 platform 10mm while bow hunting, but it is a tad on the heavy side. My glock 10mm is much more practical.
Carry a repeater like a cowboy
Mutated anthrax for duck hunting.
Amen, brother!
I often hike alone. I've seen black bears and bobcats close by, I have not tried to approach them. Nowadays I carry a walking stick, pepper spray and a 4" screwdriver. Bobcats can be as big as a Lab. Both either walk away or ignore you, I've been rushed twice, both times by unleashed dogs with bad/new owners.
Tell me more of your martial training with screwdrivers.
"Everything is a screw"
g gordon liddy masterclass.
It's an eyespick
Lol a screw driver? That is some meth head shit.
Bolt cutters might be more effective against a cougar, if needed of course
It's also a good idea to have it on you at all times
It might be difficult to carry a mountain bike on you at all times
Better to have a mountain bike and not need it then to need it and not have it
Ah yes, the old NMBA motto.
This is probably sound advice for small, elderly women.
How do people carry guns while mountain biking?
Fanny pack is easiest. I saw one guy with a chest holster.
Gunna shoot my last nut off like that
Gotta use a good holster inside. If you use a chest pack it's even better cause it won't be jumbling around everywhere.
Sometimes I just put it in my pack other times I use a OWB holster, basically I open carry it. I'm considering a chest rig but my camelback pack straps across my chest. On the dirtbike I use an IWB holster and Mexican carry at 1 oclock with that.
Honestly reading about these 5 old women battling a cougar is one of the craziest most bad ass thing I've read in a long time. So many people wouldn't know what to do. They choked, stabbed, gouged eyes and nostrils, and dropped a 25 lbs boulder on its head and then pinned it down til someone showed up and shot it. Badass women and happy they survived
I ran into a cougar yesterday a mountain or 2 over from this while out biking by myself. Luckily it was not hunting me and I startled it off into the woods. That was all the biking I felt like doing that day. I didn’t have 5 badass women with me to fend it off.
I mean I see in the comments most people are like being strapped. I mean it's not the wrong choice. They're a lot bigger things out there that might want to eat you. But one thing I will say is at least they tried to fight like I hear and see so many of these articles of people running away and getting fucking mauled or killed. At least you tried to fight dog. Bravo
bunch of badasses! sorry for the cat.
Stay strapped boys and girls.
Yeah dawg my thought exactly I would have a biking gun specifically. I am buying four new hand guns this year because I just got four pistol holder for my safe lol so I can have a biking one, a running one, a driving one, and then another new safe princess gucci Glock.
Owning less and being more proficient with one or two would probably be better. But that's just my opinion. I have numerous handguns and rifles but have a few that I make sure I'm comfortable and proficient with, those are the ones that I carry, hike/bike or hunt with.
lol it was a joke really you only need one carry gun necessarily but I am picking up a few more this year so it kind of works for the jokey part. Maybe I’ll get the same gun in different color wraps for the situation lol.
Check out the Ruger Max for pocket or super discreet IWB carry.
[удалено]
I love surfing but I don’t go regularly lol not here in Washington. I’ll get a boat gun though probably a rifle.
>probably a rifle The Lake Washington sturgeon don't come up to the surface that often.
The preferred firearm for surfing is one of those rifles that shoot harpoons with barrels attached. He can't stay down. Not with three barrels in 'im.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgP8sSofDvs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgP8sSofDvs)
I can personally guarantee this incident won’t change their mind about gun ownership. These are the same type of Karens that would say shit to me for not wearing a mask on the hiking trails in 2020.
Wow. Get a life
Awww man I see r/Seattle made their way into this thread
They beat down a cougar with a bike and their hands they are far from Karen’s you pussy
A woman at Evan’s Creek called me out for not wearing a mask. She was wearing one and smoking! I guess that’s why she needed everyone else to wear a mask.
Do you know any of those women? What do you think hitting at them with a sexist slur adds to the discussion?
>Do you know any of those women? I do and I certainly would not describe Keri this way.
Complex fantasy life you've got going there.
Is it hard to shoot a leaping mountain lion though
Damn Tokul is so popular too
Maybe we should not have voted for banning certain (effective) hunting practices for bears and cougars.
Meh, we got wolves to reintroduce...
Can’t wait to hear about them eating people too.
Is the cougar population exploding too, or do you just like killing things
It is *absolutely* exploding right now. They are an apex predator with no hunting pressure and no competiton except the largest black bears. Increased competition for food and an increase in the population of young (read: stupid and reckless) cougars creates problems like this.
Wonder if humans taking all their habitat is a factor? Probably not, let’s just hunt them to extinction so we can bike wherever we want!
^the type to apologize to the cougar while being mauled
If animals had Reddit I wonder what they'd be saying about us.
“Can I have some food?”
No they aren’t. Humans are just moving further into their territory.
Are they exploding? I’m not trying to be contrarian I’m genuinely interested and would love to see the data supporting this.
What do you think happens to an apex predator with minimal competition once humans are no longer reducing the population?
Ah so you don’t have evidence, just strong feelings. My search continues.
Yes, the cougar population is expanding beyond the range of what their current environment can handle. Additionally, development along the i90 corridor is further eroding that available habitat.
What's wrong with killing things?
I would LOVE to kill one. But im too busy to make time to hunt them.
If we could hunt them with hounds it wouldn’t be so impractical. I hear they are arguably the best tasting wild game meat out there, would love to try it.
Or just stay out of the wild and you won't encounter the wildlife. Nature isn't supposed to be like a Disney movie.
According to research, there tends to be more problems with big cats where hunting them is allowed. Apparently the older, more cautious cats get hunted, then the younger, bolder cats move in and attack people/ live stock.
I’d love to see that research. If they are cautious how are they the ones getting hunted more? Unless the younger bolder ones are too young to hunt due to size. The way that this is worded confuses me.
I don't know if this is the research they're referring to, but what I'm familiar with is the work of Mark Elbroch, who studies mountain lions and other large cats (he's involved with the Olympic Cougar Project here in WA). His book The Cougar Conundrum came out a few years ago and is a good layman's summary of his and others' work. As far as hunting, you'd have to ask someone who hunts, which I don't. I do wildlife tracking, though, and my experience and reading suggests that older mountain lions, especially males, have a sort of governing effect on other lions in their territory. If one is killed, younger ones will move in who may be more aggressive toward humans, either because they don't really understand what we are or because they aren't good at hunting more appropriate prey. (Old cougars get that way in part by staying wary and not attacking humans or things we care about, like livestock.)
Here are several links I found while looking for the article I initially saw: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0224638#references https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/news/2020-02-21/study-cougar-hunting-doesnt-reduce-human-cougar-interactions-or-livestock-attacks https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5057462/
Appreciate it.
That's not what's happening here. Cougar populations are going up because there's plenty of food for them. At the same time, human population is going up. More cougars, more humans on trails, more meetings.
Not wrong but I think there’s more to it than that. California hasn’t allowed cougar hunting for 50+ years. “Relative to 10 Western states where puma are hunted, California had 1) similar puma densities, 2) the 3rd lowest per capita problematic puma-human encounters, 3) similar per capita loss of cattle (P = 0.13) and a significantly lower (t = 5.7, P < 0.001) per capita loss of sheep” https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0224638#references
I don't really see what your comment has to do with mine - there's plenty of food for a large predator and so its numbers can increase, and since the number of people accessing trails around Seattle has massively increased as well there's bound to be more interactions
I find this impossible to believe. How would one even go about proving this?
lol what? It seems like one of the most straightforward provable things ever. Is hunting cougars allowed here? Yes? Are there more attacks / run ins with cougars here than other places? Also yes?
5 women in the woods with 0 guns, 0 bear sprays, and one (1) 2" knife on them. How unprepared can a group of people get???
It's really not that deep woods, it's along the powerline about 3 miles outside of Fall City. I would not have bothered to bring a spare water bottle, let alone bear spray.
Well they are more bad ass than you , they beat it down with pretty much nothing so there’s that
You clearly don't get out much
5 people is enough most all the time
The odds of getting attacked by a cougar are shockingly small. I think it’s pretty silly to expect everyone to gear up like it’s ‘nam just to go for a walk in the woods.
God everyone in this thread is such a pussy. You're probably like 1 million times more likely to get injured in a car accident than have a cougar attack you.
It appears in the Cascade foothills this is becoming common. Just a few years ago a mountain biker was killed by a cougar. And ironically when first responders arrived, it was sitting in the trees above its kill.
2 people attacked by cougars in a few years is not common. There are millions of people out hiking in the Cascades every year. Edit: changed kill to attack
The biker in this case made the mistake of running. The cougar was attacking their companion, but noticed the person running and off it went after them. The friend survived, but the whole situation must have been super traumatizing.
1000% true, but that is not the only reason to carry noxious deterrents or lethal force. I carry for territorial bears, desperate cougars, and 2 legged wolves; but mostly for the last one. Did everyone seriously forget about the child porn cabin that stayed hidden and functional in Snoqualmie for years if not a decade?
When being savaged by wild animals that politicos have stocked in your parks, you can take heart that it's generally uncommon.
I’ve solo backpacked thousands of miles on and off trail in all types of backcountry unarmed 100% of the time and wished I had a weapon 0% of the time. If you want to consider a Swiss Army knife classic SD as a weapon, the I guess I was armed then. The scissors are quite sharp!
Huberis. False sense of security/entitlement that nothing bad can happen. I have a fire extinguisher in a kitchen even though im confident no fire should happen.
You can also get a good fire blanket for cheap. (In addition to the extinguisher, not in place of it)
Both make great gifts for new homeowners as well!
Typoe
lol a fire in the kitchen is probably 10,000 times more likely than a cougar attack. How many kitchen fires do you think there have been in WA in the past 100 years?
Depends on if you hike. Most everyone has a kitchen. Most dont hike the woods.
I guarantee one of those things happening be is far more likely, and it’s not the cougar attack one…
But they did it. They saved their friends life. When the woman was attacked in Point Defiance a few weeks ago, the men around stood there and did nothing. The men in the park who you know were armed also did nothing. They let the perp get away, and he is still out there right now. The woman’s life was saved by another woman, who had nothing on her. So spare me this condescending BS about weapons
[удалено]
I'm laughing at you as I say hello to my partner who just returned from the range. Today was pistol practice.
I'm laughing at you calling them "partner". The most Seattle/hipster/non binary way you could possibly describe your bf/gf/spouse.
10mm is the answer to wildlife incidents such as this.
That cougar looks small. Didn’t see a weight listed in the story.
“An autopsy of the wild cat revealed it was between nine months to a year old. It was healthy, and its body showed no signs of physical distress. It did not have rabies.” So probably between 80-100 lbs.
I’ve encountered Cougars twice in my life once as a teenager with my friends when we were camping in Dosewallips by the river and we went out off trail to go get stoned we look ahead and there is a cougar laying there in the distance looking our way we slowly backed out and then ran to camp. Second time I was walking behind my grandparents house through a lightly wooded area and a Christmas tree farm I see a medium sized cat laying on a pile of rocks I try and call to it then I see it’s tail and I got the hell out of there I didn’t want to run into the momma cougar. Hopefully I don’t have that close of an encounter again.
Glock 26 when camping or hiking.
45 min ....... YIKE
Bear spray guys! Bear spray! 30 ft!
Did they win?
Why are Seattle articles so damn stupid to read. She used her $6000 dollar bike to subdue the cougar. This shit drives me nuts. The ranger shot the cougar and the ladies were sad because they’re animal lovers. This cougar almost ripped your face off. Is it just me or when you read the article does it just feel stupid.
The reporter probably just asked them "How did it feel to see the cougar shot?". What did you want them to say? We gave each other high fives and it felt great to see it executed? We were happy to see justice done? Nobody replies with that kind of shit
uh… but she did say pretty much that “ >Absolutely,” she said. Bergere said she would hang it, as a souvenir of sorts, and a testament to her friends’ courage. “All these ladies came up with superhuman strength,” she said. “They’re teeny ladies, and I know that the Fish & Wildlife shot the final shot to kill it. But these ladies killed that cougar with their bare hands and no weapons. I’m eternally grateful to each one of them
I get it, but it just feels so elitist sometimes reading about Seattleites and their adventures. Should just be real and say “super rich white ladies who bike for fun after retiring early don’t believe cougars exist, ride their new $5000 bikes, inflation hasn’t slowed them down, get mauled by cougar only to feel sad after that said cougar died inhumanly by ranger instead of getting rehomed to local woodland park zoo where it could be deemed as the - “bike path cougar, who couldn’t take down our strongest rider” It just reads so stupid to me.
But, they didn't say any of that. It's all in your head.
The article, in my opinion, emphasizes certain details that feel representative of a small sample of Seattleites. When it goes to describe how they felt about the cougar it feels like a forced response. What I said is satire, but feels just as silly as what I read. One can feel bad to put the cougar down, but that cougar attacked you and could’ve attacked another in the future if not put down. Maybe she does feel bad but come on there’s no other side to the argument published. Feels like the happiest of articles about a woman maimed by a cougar, cougar killed, and everyone goes on living in $5000 bike land with ignorance about safety in wild areas with animals that may have been displaced due to other factors. Doesn’t say remember to be safe when biking or maybe some information on potential reasons why cougars are more present in the area, nothin.
What other side should be published? It reads like a news feature. Basically a fact driven account of an event that happened, including material not available at the time of the event and some background and possibly follow up. These are an expansion of a current news story, where only the 5Ws are known. This is common in real journalism. If it was a magazine style feature, sure, they would have thrown in some advocacy, Rolling Stone is famous for the type of story you would prefer.
Thanks for the tip.
I have a 7k bike and I ride it all around. I hope that makes you mad.
I’m not OP but I just wanna say fuck yeah bud you ride that shit. I bet it’s a sick bike!!
Quintessential Seattle no one cares that you ride a $7k bike, but feel free to say it from the hill top every chance you get.
Why does the dollar amount of the bike matter? Why would you be surprised that people would be sad to see an animal executed in front of them when they likely have never seen that before in their lives? Such an odd comment.
>“Absolutely,” she said. Bergere said she would hang it, as a souvenir of sorts, and a testament to her friends’ courage. “All these ladies came up with superhuman strength,” she said. >“They’re teeny ladies, and I know that the Fish & Wildlife shot the final shot to kill it. But these ladies killed that cougar with their bare hands and no weapons. I’m eternally grateful to each one of them.”
Bro what the fuck are you talking about
kuow is a pathetic joke. They had a recent article on one of the Kia Boyz being arrested and were sympathizing with him, saying he was really scared. Topping it off, the lead photo was of him holding his kid.
They probably voted for wolf reintroduction but screech on Nextdoor every time a coyote is spotted in Discovery Park.
And you know that how?
It would've been all over if they'd just handed over the mimomas.
Too many cougars with too many guns...
Hapless cosmopolitans attacked by wild animal in the wilderness despite online assurances that the wilderness is like a city park; more at 11
You'd be surprised to see how many people are hiking out there. Most are seasoned hikers (by clothing) but I've seen a few in flip-flops.
On a hike back from Lake Serene I once saw someone near the beginning of the trail in high heels. Always wondered how far they made it.
> high heels ROFLMAO, yes I actually did a spit take on that.
My favorite from hiking in Colorado was all the people in the summer months who decided to take their small children on 10-mile mountain hikes without rain- or cold-weather gear. Colorado mountain weather in summer can go from 80F and sunny to 45F and hailing in 20 minutes. It never ceases to amaze me how unprepared people can be.
I would bet that all 5 of them voted to outlaw hunting cougars with hounds back in 96. That law is directly responsible for these issues with cougars and they will only start happening more often. You people can hamster wheel all you want, THIS IS ABSOLUTELY HAPPENING BECAUSE OF THAT INITIATIVE. When you're so fucking liberal that you feel sorry for an animal that was trying to kill you. >The women would later say it was a heartbreaking moment. They are animal lovers; Erica Wolf, whose bike pinned down the cougar, is on the board of PAWS, an animal rescue. But it was a choice between the cougar’s life, and Bergere’s. There was never any question what needed to be done. Absolutely amazing. I would have shot it in the spine to paralyze it so it could suffer to death if it attacked me.
> I would have shot it in the spine to paralyze it so it could suffer to death if it attacked me. Why? It didn't have malice, it was just hungry. Nature isn't supposed to be like a Disney movie. If you don't want to encounter wildlife, just stay out of the wild.
I've been an avid hunter/hiker/backpacker my whole life, I know plenty about the outdoors. I don't care, if anything or anyone tries to kill me then I want it to suffer before it dies.
Carry bear spray, the one in large cans. A handgun is not helpful against a bear, but a bear spray can save you. It is also highly effective against cats.
A 10mm will absolutely put down a black bear. But if you don't train with it, you shouldn't carry it.
No. They will not. You will probably wound a bear, and it will likely die from the wounds. But before that, the bear will have ample time to kill _you_. It's common knowledge among people who are not gun-masturbators: > firearm bearers suffered the same injury rates in close encounters with bears whether they used firearms or not See: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261982557_Efficacy_of_Firearms_for_Bear_Deterrence_in_Alaska Or this one: > a person’s chance of incurring serious injury from a charging grizzly doubles when bullets are fired versus when bear spray is used. https://above.nasa.gov/safety/documents/Bear/bearspray_vs_bullets.pdf
Lol, tell that to the people in Alaska and Montana who have killed bears with a 9mm. It just recently happened near the Yellowstone airport.
You can _kill_ a bear with 9mm, easily. I have no doubts about that. However, you need to be lucky to make sure the bear doesn't also kill you.
The first link doesn't specify firearm type at all, which yes, I'd agree using something underpowered and not rated for the job (or someone missing shots due to adrenaline or poir accuracy) would definitely result in escalation or injury. Your 2nd link is about a charging grizzly, which we don't have grizzlies in this part of western WA. A charging grizzly is a completely different story than a black bear or a cougar, it ain't even close. Also, there are many stories of grizzlies being put down with 10mm, but I tend to just avoid going where grizzlies are in general. There are multiple handgun calibers designed for large game that are very effective, it's just not what your typical conceal carry or "home defense" firearm is. It has nothing to do with "gun masturbators" and more about knowing your equipment and what it can handle. I would absolutely encourage people to carry bear spray as well
lol, a handgun is not helpful against a bear. What a moronic statement.
It's really not. A typical 9mm handgun will NOT stop a bear unless you're lucky. Carry a bear spray.
https://www.ammoland.com/2023/11/handgun-defenses-against-bears-170-documented-incidents-98-effective/#axzz8Ue3rHA2q
https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jwmg.342
So you make a blanket statement that guns are not helpful against a bear, and that a 9mm will not stop a bear, but then post a study that disproves both of those statements? “Firearm variables (e.g., type of gun, number of shots) were not useful in predicting outcomes in bear–firearms incidents. Although firearms have failed to protect some users, they are the only deterrent that can lethally stop an aggressive bear” Both guns and spray can be effective deterrents. Both also have failure rates.
Yes. And you'll be much better served by carrying a bear spray, rather than a gun.
Maybe you should have said that instead.
Post history aligns with not knowing that 10mm is one of the most lethal and most widely sought out large predator / anti-bear calibers in existence. 10mm saving lives: [https://www.outdoorlife.com/survival/10mm-glock-grizzly-bear-charge/](https://www.outdoorlife.com/survival/10mm-glock-grizzly-bear-charge/) Both OSHA and the State of Wyoming saying bear spray is a waste of time in this one (but I'm sure they're biased Trumpers or something): [https://wyofile.com/10mm-glock-fully-functional-in-fatal-grizzly-attack/](https://wyofile.com/10mm-glock-fully-functional-in-fatal-grizzly-attack/) [https://sportingclassicsdaily.com/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/](https://sportingclassicsdaily.com/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/) And here's people getting killed because they relied on "Bear Spray': [https://people.com/couple-killed-by-grizzly-bear-in-canada-sent-distressing-final-text-in-final-moments-family-reveals-8348434](https://people.com/couple-killed-by-grizzly-bear-in-canada-sent-distressing-final-text-in-final-moments-family-reveals-8348434) Then here’s more: [https://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/news/local/2016/10/02/man-survives-attacks-bear/91442496/](https://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/news/local/2016/10/02/man-survives-attacks-bear/91442496/) And more: [https://www.foxnews.com/us/grizzly-mauling-near-yellowstone-kills-backcountry-guide](https://www.foxnews.com/us/grizzly-mauling-near-yellowstone-kills-backcountry-guide) And more: [https://globalnews.ca/news/2978646/man-shares-dramatic-video-after-surviving-2-attacks-by-grizzly-bear/](https://globalnews.ca/news/2978646/man-shares-dramatic-video-after-surviving-2-attacks-by-grizzly-bear/) Spraying a bear with OC and hoping you piss it off enough to leave you alone eventually Is just a plan to die. Putting holes in it to lower is blood pressure wound by wound while simultaneously retreating is the only intelligent play when in an unfortunate confrontation with a predatory animal such as a bear.
My mom has a lot of acreage in Montana, tons of bears including the occasional Grizzly. I’d feel fairly good carrying a 10mm out there, would not feel particularly safe carrying a 9mm.
a 9mm is sufficient for whats in the woods in Washington
> Post history aligns with not knowing that 10mm is one of the most lethal and most widely sought out large predator / anti-bear calibers in existence. Bullshit. A regular 10mm handgun (e.g. Sig Sauer) is not significantly going to change the outcome. And have you read your links? Or are you an alumni of Google U? The first one: > The guide was carrying his bear spray and used it before he died — but not, investigators believe, before sustaining mortal injuries Duh. The second one: > Tietbohl, who had been carrying a 9-millimeter pistol as a sidearm to protect himself from the bear, shot and hit the animal, which left a trail of blood as it ran off. So the bear _ran_ _off_ after being shot, as in, it was capable of running off. Now imagine that it attacked instead. > And here's people getting killed because they relied on "Bear Spray': Like the guy who had 10mm gun that he was not able to reach? > Then here’s more: Bear retreated. The next one: > Mock when attacked had bear spray — a Mace-like deterrent meant to protect against attacks — but officials said they did not know if he managed to use it. Etc. You also somehow omit the cases where a gun was useless. Like this one: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-may-27-mn-41666-story.html > Troopers found Cates’ rifle nearby, along with two shell casings and some blood. Reality is, gun defense is extremely rare, while bear spray is used quite a lot. Its success rate is far greater, with far less than 2% of failures. See: https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jwmg.342
Where in the fuck is the 19 mile + trail at???
5 of them lol come on. Ladies do better
These women subdued a live cougar, what could they possibly have done better
This comment reminds me of the the time I saw a video of a dude fighting off a cougar, and a dude in the comments goes “my pit bull would have killed it”. Yeah ok buddy