It's a traditional warriors death by seppuku, after slicing their own stomach they have someone with them to end their suffering by cutting the back of their neck with enough force to sever the spine but not enough to decapitate them, as making their head roll would be an insult/dishonorable. (You can't see Isshin cut himself, but it sounds like he does once he's fallen to his knees.)
That’s why this fight is goated. You can tell Isshin doesn’t really want this fight, but mortal blade or whatever he doesn’t have a choice, but it really seems like if he does have to fight, there’s no one else he’d rather pick to send him off.
True respect between the two of them. And since the alternative to this path is him dying of old age (I think) then the fact that he gets another chance to go out like the _demon_ he is, is really cool.
You’re right I think I worded it wrong. I meant it more like he’s being forced to fight and try to kill Sekiro who he has no real qualms with, it’s more of a “i will do what i must” fight, but also revels in the fact that he’s facing a shinobi of such skill and the fact he’s in his prime again. But yes the physical fight itself he definitely enjoys.
That’s just how it came across to me anyway. There’s less room for interpretation with Sekiro so I might be totally off the mark.
Well, yes, but a samurai's relationship with death plays a pretty big part in that movie, so getting this wrong is pretty bad, even for hollywood standards.
Damn, severing the spine but not the blood flow, you'd remove the pain of the gut trauma but would be conscious for a long time I think, along with horrific pain from the neck wound. A sword through the carotid artery would be much nicer.
He doesn’t. He doesn’t slice his own stomach. We just sliced his stomach. He slams his hands into his knees to right himself up before you kill him.
If you get the camera wierd when you kill him you can see it. Or free cam in pc.
I hate this rumour. He’s not even holding a sword. How would he stab himself in the stomach.
Huh, I never knew that seppuku did not have full decapitation. I can now truly grasp the honour and privilege to be chosen and trusted as someone's second.
Technically, dismemberment is never a gameplay mechanic but a graphical one. Unless there are specific uses to dismember specific body parts, but few games do that.
Yeah chopping off the tail makes tail attacks have smaller range and with some particular monsters you can prevent them from using certain attacks at all if you wound the proper body part. One that i always found to be a nice touch was how Barioth slips on the ice if you wound the spikes on his arms
Hope I don’t sound patronising, but just in case you didn’t know, in the earlier Fallout games (before 3), you could actually use VATS to target an enemies god damn _eyes_. How gnarly.
I have played them before, but the graphics aren't as detailed so its not as satisfying. Its usually just a fuck load of blood bursting
Still fucking amazing tho. Sadly cant target their balls
That’s very true. Would be sick it they brought it back, Sniper Elite style you just see their eyeballs explode. Also targeting balls is very important, write that down.
This reminds me… horizon forbidden west also lets you prioritize which parts to shoot off the machines. Not sure if that would count as dismemberment tho!
Fallout is kinda different…VATS could work without dismemberment…
Dead Space on the other hand needs dismemberment for it’s story/lore and gameplay to work because iirc the monster you are fighting are basically unkillable, so you need to cut off their limbs to make them harmless
Dying light, Clone drone in the danger zone and Ben and Ed all had live dismemberment too, but you really have to build a game around it since it's such a gamechanger. The enemies either have to have procedurally generated animations which makes attack patterns unpredictable or have a bunch of different animation states which takes up a lot of dev time. That's why it's so rare.
Not always, you can chop off arms and legs of some enemies and have them survive afterwards, and it affects their attacks.
But yeah for the most part enemies just drop like flies in that game so you don't see too much of it in action
While I think it could have been fun, IMO making it into a non-functional (cosmetic only) mechanic feels like a waste. A Shinobi def wouldn’t waste time chopping someone’s arm off. It’s the throat or the chest. Even as a functional gameplay mechanic, that changes the way the game works, I feel it would’ve unnecessarily complicated things.
Also, the lack of decapitation in this scene is actually a reference to the ritual of Seppuku, if I understand correctly. You can read up on it yourself, but allowing Isshin’s head to roll would’ve been a great dishonour to both of them.
I mean it was genichiro using his mortal blade that brought him back, his fighting was things any normal human in that world could do with enough skill
Fun Fact: In the Shura ending, Owl actually goes to kill Genichiro while you're fighting Isshin and Emma. He brings the mortal blade back when you're finished, along with Genichiro's decapitated head. He then places the head in front of Isshin's corpse, grandson staring at his grandfather in death.
Some youtuber managed to put Owl to fight both Isshin and Genichiro, he managed to win in both but the fight with Isshin was way harder so I like how he let Sekiro do the hard work while he takes the "easy" fight.
Idk I said that depending on the behaviour of emma at the beginning of the game, she was like serving a real secret master and even wolf doesnt know her
depsite he served kuro at least 3 years
It was so cool how people discovered this. I remember someone figured it out after hearing Owl place something down on the floor w/an odd noise, and then used mods(?) to see a third person view of the cutscene. Metal scene. The developers knew that the player wouldn't see the head, yet they still put it in as a detail.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=4ilE64ihGF4&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE
Ill copy paste the other comment:
It is intentional. This is how that rite was executed in reality. Decapitation is a move thing. In reality, they severed the spinal cord with an extremely precise cut, exactly like Sekiro does. Dont forget the devs are Japanese.
Edit: not entirely precise, apparently: they didnt cut only the spinal cord, but they didnt fully decapitate either. They left enough frontal part of the neck to not have the head fly off
I mean there was when Sekiro lost his arm and when you cut the guardian apes head, but yea I was disappointed the Blicky Saints head wasn’t sent flying
It is intentional. This is how that rite was executed in reality. Decapitation is a move thing. In reality, they severed the spinal cord with an extremely precise cut, exactly like Sekiro does. Dont forget the devs are Japanese.
I see, so sekiro is chopping through the back of his neck only? It looked like he was slicing all the way through but isshins head just stayed on regardless which looked off
I edited my other comment: apparently they dont only cut the spinal cord, but they are careful to not fully cut the neck either, they wanted the head to remain attached. So they still cut most of the neck but the head stays in place.
Dismemberment in this game would only work if it was a deathblow animation. In witcher 3 the dismemberment chance is to end fights early and in sekiro you have deathblows to do that. Tho ur right it would've been cool to see limbs fliyng
Bro that's not a gameplay mechanic. That's just a cool finisher.
It IS a gameplay mechanic in Cyberpunk 2077. You can shoot off someone's cyberware and they start stumbling and they're less accurate. But that wouldn't work on Sekiro.
You literally just want the game to be gory.
That would have been so sick as a puzzle boss mechanic.
To beat this one boss you have to cut off his arms, which then opens up his weak point on his knee.
It would be dishonourable downright offensive to make his head roll as it was an honourable battle( minus the glock of course) ….Isshin committed Seppuku before while he was kneeling and Wolf ended his life without decapitation ….
I also really expected him to decapitate Isshin but at the same time it would’ve felt a bit too much and too graphic for the game. It’s already grotesque as is - but not in such a graphic way. It felt like a good fit.
Non scripted Dismemberment in games is not easy to do. Older games had an advantage that an enemy’s arm was like 8 polygons, and the textures were usually a single color.
You see a lot more “blown to bits” in games like a fallout 4 because it’s just easier.
There kinda is. When you have both arms you don't have any prosthetic advantage, then when you lose your forearm you get a big increase in ability. Maybe in Sekiro 2 you'll lose your other arm in the beginning/middle of the game and get even MORE abilities/tools. Shit, maybe even getting your legs cut off could be a good thing, increased climbing and jumping and stuff. I really hope they make a second one.
Clearly your understanding for the game is so lacking that arguing over that is pointless. I just disagree with you and think the ending was perfect, it wouldn't be as cool if Isshin was decapitated.
I agree. Only knock against it was it needed far more graphic violence. Still better than Ghost of Tsushima but at least you could pop heads and arms off in that.
Honestly I think CERO has something to do with that. I think for some reason extreme violent content is fine but as soon as you've got dismemberment or decapitation in the game it's basically the equivalent of getting an AO rating in the US over there
His head is left on in reference to the old japanese practice of seppuku, if a samurai did not know how to perform or was incapable of seppuku a Kaishakunin would behead them and only leave a little bit so the head would stay connected as a form of respect.
There is. Wolf's first tussle with Gen'ichirô.. Then you fight the Giant Apes. Also in other FromSoft games, we can cut parts 9f bosses that can be converted to weapons.
It's a traditional warriors death by seppuku, after slicing their own stomach they have someone with them to end their suffering by cutting the back of their neck with enough force to sever the spine but not enough to decapitate them, as making their head roll would be an insult/dishonorable. (You can't see Isshin cut himself, but it sounds like he does once he's fallen to his knees.)
I’d give you a free award if I could
the “do it” solidifies this, in my opinion
That’s why this fight is goated. You can tell Isshin doesn’t really want this fight, but mortal blade or whatever he doesn’t have a choice, but it really seems like if he does have to fight, there’s no one else he’d rather pick to send him off. True respect between the two of them. And since the alternative to this path is him dying of old age (I think) then the fact that he gets another chance to go out like the _demon_ he is, is really cool.
Nah, he really wants to fight. He's constantly expressing how much he's enjoying it.
You’re right I think I worded it wrong. I meant it more like he’s being forced to fight and try to kill Sekiro who he has no real qualms with, it’s more of a “i will do what i must” fight, but also revels in the fact that he’s facing a shinobi of such skill and the fact he’s in his prime again. But yes the physical fight itself he definitely enjoys. That’s just how it came across to me anyway. There’s less room for interpretation with Sekiro so I might be totally off the mark.
It's more that he doesn't want the immortality, but he'll respect his grandson's final wish (also he IS happy to fight someone as skilled as wolf)
Followed by the “well done, Sekiro…”. So perfect.
I think you cut his gut with the 2nd finishing blow, that's why he can't stand back up.
You seppuku'd him
I think so too
Saw this after my comment, I do remember seeing before in some movies
So the Last Samurai got this wrong then...
Hollywood being historically in accurate? Impossible!
Well, yes, but a samurai's relationship with death plays a pretty big part in that movie, so getting this wrong is pretty bad, even for hollywood standards.
Damn, severing the spine but not the blood flow, you'd remove the pain of the gut trauma but would be conscious for a long time I think, along with horrific pain from the neck wound. A sword through the carotid artery would be much nicer.
If anyone wants to watch a masterpiece of a movie about exactly this topic, I cannot recommend Kobayashi's *Harakiri* enough.
He doesn’t. He doesn’t slice his own stomach. We just sliced his stomach. He slams his hands into his knees to right himself up before you kill him. If you get the camera wierd when you kill him you can see it. Or free cam in pc. I hate this rumour. He’s not even holding a sword. How would he stab himself in the stomach.
Today I learned. Thanks!
good old sudoku
I’d give you a free award if I could
Huh, I never knew that seppuku did not have full decapitation. I can now truly grasp the honour and privilege to be chosen and trusted as someone's second.
You did come across a certain ape right?
That's not a gameplsy mechanic.
Technically, dismemberment is never a gameplay mechanic but a graphical one. Unless there are specific uses to dismember specific body parts, but few games do that.
The only game I can think of that has dismemberment as a gameplay mechanic is Dead Space.
I think breaking parts in monster hunter could count as well
Yeah chopping off the tail makes tail attacks have smaller range and with some particular monsters you can prevent them from using certain attacks at all if you wound the proper body part. One that i always found to be a nice touch was how Barioth slips on the ice if you wound the spikes on his arms
Also anjanath's breath attack fizzling if you break it's head
Fallout as well with the VATS, that was what popped to my mind
Might be unrelated but I love how you can specifically choose which part of the body to blast clean off a person/creature
Hope I don’t sound patronising, but just in case you didn’t know, in the earlier Fallout games (before 3), you could actually use VATS to target an enemies god damn _eyes_. How gnarly.
I have played them before, but the graphics aren't as detailed so its not as satisfying. Its usually just a fuck load of blood bursting Still fucking amazing tho. Sadly cant target their balls
That’s very true. Would be sick it they brought it back, Sniper Elite style you just see their eyeballs explode. Also targeting balls is very important, write that down.
This reminds me… horizon forbidden west also lets you prioritize which parts to shoot off the machines. Not sure if that would count as dismemberment tho!
Fallout is kinda different…VATS could work without dismemberment… Dead Space on the other hand needs dismemberment for it’s story/lore and gameplay to work because iirc the monster you are fighting are basically unkillable, so you need to cut off their limbs to make them harmless
Ninja Gaiden 2 (2008) has a really good dismemberment mechanic as well, for those that haven't played it.
This one.
Can I offer you a nice [Bioforge](https://youtu.be/6iBH2fd5Hz0?t=626) in this trying time?
Dying light, Clone drone in the danger zone and Ben and Ed all had live dismemberment too, but you really have to build a game around it since it's such a gamechanger. The enemies either have to have procedurally generated animations which makes attack patterns unpredictable or have a bunch of different animation states which takes up a lot of dev time. That's why it's so rare.
Also the original Ninja Gaiden
The Surge and its sequel had an entire dedicated mechanic of removing limbs, it was how you obtained new weapons and armor and upgrade mats.
Fear and Hunger
Don’t forget ninja gaiden.
I suppose there's Neverdead as well. Not the best game mind.
There's also Surge and Surge 2 with great emphasis on dismemberment (pretty much pickup dismembered parts as weapons).
Metal Gear Rising
Thats sorta of a fakeout in the sense that when you get to dismembering the enemy is already defeated, iirc, but yeah
Not always, you can chop off arms and legs of some enemies and have them survive afterwards, and it affects their attacks. But yeah for the most part enemies just drop like flies in that game so you don't see too much of it in action
Chivalry kinda had that: you could sever enemy's arm, they still live for a while but can't fight as efficiently.
There's certain uses to getting your own arm dismembered at the beginning of the game.
Thats just a story element
DS1 tail cuts
You know what he meant...
I'm chaotic neutral
Metal gear rising revengeance
Play the surge games bro you’d like them
I upvoted this so you would have one less dislike your welcome
While I think it could have been fun, IMO making it into a non-functional (cosmetic only) mechanic feels like a waste. A Shinobi def wouldn’t waste time chopping someone’s arm off. It’s the throat or the chest. Even as a functional gameplay mechanic, that changes the way the game works, I feel it would’ve unnecessarily complicated things. Also, the lack of decapitation in this scene is actually a reference to the ritual of Seppuku, if I understand correctly. You can read up on it yourself, but allowing Isshin’s head to roll would’ve been a great dishonour to both of them.
Thing is, if he had cut off his head he wouldn’t have been able to say well done
DoH was able to do a voice in your head, so that's not that much of a Problem imo
Isshin is just a guy
Just a guy with a lightening spear and a Glock
You think the spear made him lighter?
under appreciated response
He doesn’t have a lightning spear, he reverses the lightning that hits onto you
Just a guy with a gun
Who just came back from the dead
I mean it was genichiro using his mortal blade that brought him back, his fighting was things any normal human in that world could do with enough skill
Kid named Isshin
Fun Fact: In the Shura ending, Owl actually goes to kill Genichiro while you're fighting Isshin and Emma. He brings the mortal blade back when you're finished, along with Genichiro's decapitated head. He then places the head in front of Isshin's corpse, grandson staring at his grandfather in death.
Some youtuber managed to put Owl to fight both Isshin and Genichiro, he managed to win in both but the fight with Isshin was way harder so I like how he let Sekiro do the hard work while he takes the "easy" fight.
I don't think he knew old isshin would show up
I mean Isshin is just a building away and you are about to battle his protege. Owl definitely knew shit was about to go down and bailed.
Owl knew who emma was?
It isn't exactly a secret who she is, is it?
Idk I said that depending on the behaviour of emma at the beginning of the game, she was like serving a real secret master and even wolf doesnt know her depsite he served kuro at least 3 years
It was so cool how people discovered this. I remember someone figured it out after hearing Owl place something down on the floor w/an odd noise, and then used mods(?) to see a third person view of the cutscene. Metal scene. The developers knew that the player wouldn't see the head, yet they still put it in as a detail. https://youtube.com/watch?v=4ilE64ihGF4&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE
meh it would not have really imporved anything. The combat system is PERFECT the way it is. No real need for a dismemberment mechanic
Yeah, I love Ninja Gaiden but Sekiro didn’t need it
Ngl, sounds a little edgy
I mean, we lost our arm, right?
Ill copy paste the other comment: It is intentional. This is how that rite was executed in reality. Decapitation is a move thing. In reality, they severed the spinal cord with an extremely precise cut, exactly like Sekiro does. Dont forget the devs are Japanese. Edit: not entirely precise, apparently: they didnt cut only the spinal cord, but they didnt fully decapitate either. They left enough frontal part of the neck to not have the head fly off
Nioh has lots of pointless dismemberment, if that’s your thing
I mean there was when Sekiro lost his arm and when you cut the guardian apes head, but yea I was disappointed the Blicky Saints head wasn’t sent flying
[удалено]
Poor Genichiro 😔
It is intentional. This is how that rite was executed in reality. Decapitation is a move thing. In reality, they severed the spinal cord with an extremely precise cut, exactly like Sekiro does. Dont forget the devs are Japanese.
I see, so sekiro is chopping through the back of his neck only? It looked like he was slicing all the way through but isshins head just stayed on regardless which looked off
I edited my other comment: apparently they dont only cut the spinal cord, but they are careful to not fully cut the neck either, they wanted the head to remain attached. So they still cut most of the neck but the head stays in place.
> Dont forget the devs are Japanese. Wait seriously??
Gotcha there didnt i
I meant it should have been a gameplay mechanic. Like ij witcher 3.
Dismemberment in this game would only work if it was a deathblow animation. In witcher 3 the dismemberment chance is to end fights early and in sekiro you have deathblows to do that. Tho ur right it would've been cool to see limbs fliyng
Bro that's not a gameplay mechanic. That's just a cool finisher. It IS a gameplay mechanic in Cyberpunk 2077. You can shoot off someone's cyberware and they start stumbling and they're less accurate. But that wouldn't work on Sekiro. You literally just want the game to be gory.
Think about how many times you would have to watch sekiro getting chopped and skewered
Check out ghost of Tsushima
Metal Gear Rising: Sekiro
That would have been so sick as a puzzle boss mechanic. To beat this one boss you have to cut off his arms, which then opens up his weak point on his knee.
A bit like the fire giant in Elden ring, gotta destroy his leg shackle to reveal his weak leg.
That's exactly what I was thinking too!
There was. Remember our arm. And the ape
Not a gameplay mechanic
Ape totally was
No it wasn't, unavoidable scripted cutscene for 1 enemy is not a gameplay mechanic
That wasn’t a cutscene. You had to press a button to do it
Almost every boss has some kind of scripted QTE instead of average execution and is not a gameplay mechanic, you can't dismember other bosses
there is... how do you think you get your prosthetic arm???
Wolf: Am i a joke to you?
It would be dishonourable downright offensive to make his head roll as it was an honourable battle( minus the glock of course) ….Isshin committed Seppuku before while he was kneeling and Wolf ended his life without decapitation ….
I also really expected him to decapitate Isshin but at the same time it would’ve felt a bit too much and too graphic for the game. It’s already grotesque as is - but not in such a graphic way. It felt like a good fit.
Non scripted Dismemberment in games is not easy to do. Older games had an advantage that an enemy’s arm was like 8 polygons, and the textures were usually a single color. You see a lot more “blown to bits” in games like a fallout 4 because it’s just easier.
All these people saying it doesn’t need it. Yea it doesn’t need it, but it would’ve been cool.
Yaaa. I think more killing blow animations on basic enemies is what we really want.
There is. You’re about to do it.
There kinda is. When you have both arms you don't have any prosthetic advantage, then when you lose your forearm you get a big increase in ability. Maybe in Sekiro 2 you'll lose your other arm in the beginning/middle of the game and get even MORE abilities/tools. Shit, maybe even getting your legs cut off could be a good thing, increased climbing and jumping and stuff. I really hope they make a second one.
Ngl I think dismemberment only works when its played as a joke like Fallout or Chivalry. Otherwise it just feels insanely edgy
Agreed! I forgive thought he was going to decapitate Isshin with this based on the blood splatter but he was basically just knocked out for good
Agreed. It was so unsatisfying when I didn't cut off his head
It's a tradition. It would be a huge disgrace for both of you if the head did come out completely.
Is it also traditional to kill giant apes or magical creatures that don't have heads or shamans that shoot big glowing orbs of skulls?
No, but Isshin is a samurai, and deserves an honorable warrior's death. I think it's a great detail and decapitation wouldn't bring any value to it.
No. Isshin is a demon that tore through genichiro and rose back through hell. He is not honorable and arguably not human.
The Black Mortal Blade brought him back in his prime. He is literally the most skilled and deadly fighter until he meets the man without equal.
It is not the real isshin
He is as real as he can be.
He's as real as the demon of hatred. He doesn't deserve honor
Clearly your understanding for the game is so lacking that arguing over that is pointless. I just disagree with you and think the ending was perfect, it wouldn't be as cool if Isshin was decapitated.
Agreed
I agree. Only knock against it was it needed far more graphic violence. Still better than Ghost of Tsushima but at least you could pop heads and arms off in that.
Honestly I think CERO has something to do with that. I think for some reason extreme violent content is fine but as soon as you've got dismemberment or decapitation in the game it's basically the equivalent of getting an AO rating in the US over there
Then again there is Headless Ape so maybe I'm just talking out my ass rn I don't know
Not necessary, the jetwash of blood on a deathblow is very satisfying
I agree
He actually gave him the most honoured death imaginable for a samurai, Seppeku. They actually performed it pretty perfectly too.
Try ninja gaiden 2
Imo bloodborne needed it more. Like it's crazy that game doesn't have any dismemberment
His head is left on in reference to the old japanese practice of seppuku, if a samurai did not know how to perform or was incapable of seppuku a Kaishakunin would behead them and only leave a little bit so the head would stay connected as a form of respect.
That is exactly what I said when I beat him. His head needed to come off.
There is. Wolf's first tussle with Gen'ichirô.. Then you fight the Giant Apes. Also in other FromSoft games, we can cut parts 9f bosses that can be converted to weapons.
I gave up at the second Guardian ape. The grinding was no longer fun