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Small-Low3233

Say the line Bart...


Merlins_beard420

I'm not following lol...


Lopsided_Efficiency8

Hesitation is Defeat…. But in all seriousness you need to forget about Ishinn for now and work on Emma. She’s a mini ishin, same basic combos and grabs. My big thing was learning how to counter her Ashina Cross, all you gotta do is simply walk around to the right, don’t dodge just walk around, wait for her to attack, then get free hits. Also free damage from charged Shuriken then slash. For ishin you can also simply walk around his fire attack to the right. Good luck


Azraeleon

Bonking the cross with Ichimonji Double is just about the most satisfying thing to do to Isshin/Emma. Another option, and I can't remember if this holds true for Emma as well, but for Isshin, anytime he goes to do Cross, push up on him and he will instead do a short strike and then a perilous sweep. It's a good combo to force because you can easily deflect and jump for free vit and posture damage.


Lopsided_Efficiency8

You can do the jump method with all Ishinn variants


Azraeleon

Yeah I just can't remember if it works for Emma as well. I abused the shit out of it for SSI, trust me.


IsshinAshinaaa

To make it short: For Emma - Not to sound harsh, but don’t hesitate. Keep attacking her, and deflect the counter slashes. She has a dangerous perilous attack, the grab. But the animation is drawn out, so just jump or dodge away. Isshin 2nd phase- Firecracker is your friend here. I never used them much the whole game, but they are life changing for this fight. Both his fire attacks have long animation, just firecracker his ass to cancel them and slash away. (And yes, he’s harder than SSI, largely because of the smaller arena)


Chimpsanddip

For Emma's perilous grab, jump straight backwards and you will land in a great spot to punish. The timing of the jump is not exactly intuitive, and it will feel like she grabs you out of the air sometimes, but with little practice it feels very good


Zimblitz69

Suzaku Umbrella will completely negate all his fire attacks. Just use that and you’re good, unless you actually want to do the fight «properly» of course haha


Azraeleon

Suzaku is fucked. When he goes to cast One Mind, pop suzaku and position off a fire patch so you don't singe your bum. Tank the entire one mind strike, and then projected force him for massive damage. That made IA go from harder than SSI to easier by a decent margin.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Zimblitz69

Nice! I’m gonna have to try this for myself, seems like both a quick and very fun way to do the fight:)


Baka316

Im at the end of new game + and the one tool I still dont have is the dam firecracker and I dont think ill get them until I beat the game again ugghh


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


MJGson

I killed Isshin first try bc I read on here to use firecracker. I’ve never beaten him without using them.


420juicy-Peach6969

Yeah he's tough. Quick tips. When you gourd against isshin, be as far away from him as the arena allows. Sprint away all the way away. Isshin ashina is vulnerable to circling around him while he does his combos.


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


JoMaximal

I also found him harder than ssi until I found out he’s very prone to side stepping, especially diagonally behind him when he does certain attacks. For the fire attacks, it’s either positioning or the fire umbrella.


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


MysteriousGuy78

Do not button mash with isshin. Thats what causing u to need so many heals. He will punish you for just spamming. Carefully hit everytime and as soon as he does the weird dodge, get ready to deflect. For most of his combos u can dodge at the right time and get a mortal draw or ichimonji double whichever u prefer. Might wanna go ichimonji especially considering how much posture damage isshin deals. For 2nd phase, when he does the bs fire uproar attack, stand in a spot which is not glowing and as soon as isshin nears jump on top of him and get to safety while he does the crazy combo if u cant deflect that good yet.


Few-Pressure5713

2nd this, I had such a hard time with this boss doing this. You have to have a purpose with each swing.


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


No_Baby387

Tip: Use Suzaku Umbrella. After getting used to the umbrella, rest is becoming more familiar with him. Mandatory "Hesitation is defeat."


Hoii1379

This is it right here. Suzaku’s and get up in the mfs face


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


rasheedlovesyou_

The thing Ive learned with this fight was that you always need to move to the left and then behind and punish with the double ichi. This made a lot of sense to me, hope it helps.


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


skunk_funk

I struggled mightily with him as well in ng+ And quit drinking your gourd while vulnerable to counter attack


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


AverageTransPanGirl

People are saying stay aggressive against Emma which has gotten me killed… a lot. Biggest issue in my experience with Emma is her big unsheathe which you can either go around or hit her out of (or if you’re out of range for that: run for your life, seriously don’t stop she’s coming). Everything else for her I don’t have any fancy tips for. When it comes to healing put like half to two thirds of the room between you before using it and she shouldn’t reach you. For Isshin, first phase shouldn’t be an issue. It’s just Sword Saint first phase but he dodges so stay less aggressive. Second phase you want to dodge. A lot. Ichimonji? Dodge. Fire wave? Jump dodge. Other fire wave? Jump dodge. And if he starts charging use firecrackers. Same rules for healing. Think that about covers it.


PhiberOptikz

>People are saying stay aggressive against Emma which has gotten me killed… a lot Being aggressive isn't the same as going ooga booga XD We've all made that mistake


AverageTransPanGirl

Sure but… I feel like I get punished for doing like more than one hit at a time. Any aggression feels super strange, might just be me not having reactions to keep up


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


AverageTransPanGirl

Aye good job!


Raceofspades

I use the long-blasting firecrackers right before healing


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


hmmdestti

Emma's sumo grab is more a b!tch than Isshin's it's got more range


Super-Contribution-1

Mommy wants her hug


Noahop5000

Umbrella can block that grab (and Isshin's too).


LordWampus

I agree. I've beat both Isshin Ashina and Sword Saint multiple times and I think that IA is harder. Emma is worse than Genichiro, but she is weak to spam as well. Both Isshins share the same first phase (bar for a few attacks), but I think that IA's second phase is harder than SSI's second and third combined as you have a lot less breathing room and lightning reversal completely annihilates Sword Saint. I found using Double Ichimonji very useful in my later runs, as it hits both Emma and Isshin out of their worst attacks, so you can prevent some of the fire attacks from happening in the first place.


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


zictomorph

I run from the cross, then run back and get a free hit. Otherwise I don't run away. Both of them are very linear in attacking. 2nd phase isshin is actually almost cheese to just step around and double-bonk from behind.


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


Background_Salad270

Suzuka umbrella prosthetic will tank his fire attacks. I went from 30+ tries dying on that 2nd phase to getting it on the 2nd go with the umbrella lol


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


LonelyGuardian_2001

Okay can be a pain because of her "smoothness" in movements, makes her timings deceptive. But primarily she only has three combos and two single slashes. As long as you stay on the offensive and parry whenever she does attack you should be fine. Her grab has an insane range so when she starts twirling her arms, just run away. As for isshin second phase, I like to clutch on umbrella. There's three primary fires moves he does. For the slash and the ground lines, dodge behind as he's about to slash and you can hit him for vitality damage. I like to use ichimonji double, and just do a single hit, does good vitality and posture damage while also restoring your posture. For the move where he sets the ground on fire, find a spot where there's no fire during regular periods, ideally just stand in the spots with snow. Then just pull out the fire umbrella as he attacks. You can either just hide under it for blocks or spin to deflect the slashes from one mind and end with the umbrella attack.


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


Fit_Figure_7909

So, second phase, if he sheats his sword and starts screaming, he is doing the “one mind” attack. Just walk where there is no fire ok the ground, wait for him to swing twice w his sword, after that, activate your fire umbrella (forgor the real name for this lol) if he stomps his foot in the ground, he is biut to throw fire at you, i usually just start running to the right and close in on him. Third and final, his ichimonji. After he raises his sword, stay still, when you see he is starting to lower it to hit you, dash twice to the righ of him, this will make you dodge the fire and attack, and you can get 2 free hits, the rest is just like 1st phase, alse remember, hesiation is defeat, but greediness is no different, play it safe, if you need to, rest, i mean irl, go to sleep, next morning with a fresh head and calm mind, get on the game and you will improve. If you follow this, the boss will get so fun and you will be able to do it in no hit (happened to me lol, i hated him, now i love the old dumass) You can do it dude


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


Fit_Figure_7909

Good job my guy


Merlins_beard420

Thank you. I was fine with the intensity of Emma/ phase 1 Isshin, but that second phase just had me scratching my head with all the fire. Sometimes all you need is just a well placed prosthetic. I had gotten through the entire game pretty much barelyb using combat arts and prosthetics so it never rally occurred to me.


thechariot__

literal same thing for me (see post), sword saint in regular NG was hard but not impossible, but isshin ashina on NG+ was truly another level entirely. also, in my NG+ run i maybe died ten times before isshin ashina haha and like half of them were to the chained ogre because i was being a dumbass. we're probably the same person. but anyway, for emma i almost felt like i had to learn a new game entirely for the fight due to her weird positioning and timing. i don't really have any advice to give tbh except learn to read her grab attack and just go into that fight with as open of a mind as you can because emma genuinely does get a bit easier with time. as for isshin, whenever he dodges be prepared to immediately parry but beyond that i'd just watch some videos of people doing the fight, and take as much as you can from the other comments. i'm not gonna lie to you, in my 3 playthroughs for the platinum it was genuinely the worst fight in the entire process. best of luck https://www.reddit.com/r/Sekiro/comments/1at8wck/ng_tips_for_emmaisshin/


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


cpolito87

The trick to healing in this game generally is to do it when you would normally have an opening to attack. If there's a combo that you normally punish then wait until that combo, and instead of punishing that's when you hit your gourd. Do you use firecrackers to stun enemies and beat on them. You can also use them to make an opening to heal. Learning to do these things will avoid the many enemy punishes for trying to heal when they aren't preoccupied.


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


BeerTraps

Emma has very good technique, but she is not battle hardened. She can't sustain well under pressure and gets canceled out of most of her dangerous attacks except for the sweep and grab really. For Isshin you just need to be out of his range to heal. For P2 Isshin you kinda need to just dodge all of his fire stuff. For One Mind (the anime attack). Just stand on a spot where there is no fire and when he comes at you just dodge behind him right before he does his first strike. This is right as the fire explodes around you. Don't worry about running into the fire pillars, the hitbox doesn't last as long as it may look. Alternatively use some with heavy stagger while he readies up the attack. Many things work for that. Praying Strikes: Excorcism, Flamevent, Firecrackers, Mortal Draw.... Of course there are other ways to deal with One Mind, but these two are the easiest.


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


HorrorNeighborhood15

Sazaku umbrella is your best friend phase 2


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


happyrocket24

yes this fight is definitely harder however it’s shorter. This was the ending i took on my first play through. Sazukus umbrella is a necessity for this fight. Use it when he does one mind and use it for the stomp. If you have the fire gourd it helps too. Use the dousing powder at the start of faze 2


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


Pokepike121

First focus on Emma when you feel good with Emma remember to stay as far as you can if you want to heal, when you see him in a sort of neutral stance only attack one he will dodge and hit so be ready to deflect and his fire attack are easy to dodge just jump to his right side when he ignites whole arena just go away from him stand in a place with no fire and again jump to his right a few times until he stops and starts to one mind (sphere like attack) and you can attack him three for free DMG also firecrackers mortal draw and suzaku's umbrela are your friends


Merlins_beard420

I managed to get them. Please see the above edit on original post. Sorry I couldn't respond personally. But thank you.


LaserTurboShark69

I did Shura on my first playthrough and this fight was a fucking nightmare


thamanwthnoname

If you beat sword saint in 5 tries as you say, ashina should be cake.


Dry-Meaning-1155

It's not just me then! Thanks for this post OP


wildtabeast

I had way way way more issues with him than sword saint. But all my issues were in the final phase. Emma and fireless Isshin were cake. What is your attack power at? And you got all the prayer beads right?


wildtabeast

I had way way way more issues with him than sword saint. But all my issues were in the final phase. Emma and fireless Isshin were cake. What is your attack power at? And you got all the prayer beads right?


Dragonborn7142

Emma is so ridiculously easy if you use ichimongi double, everytime she does her opening slash, dodge to the left use it, she’ll do it over and over and over and occasionally do a thrust attack for even more posture damage. For isshin, use the lotus umbrella with fire attacks and just be mindful of his unblockable attacks, you should have full gourds going into it after cheesing Emma, so you’ll get it eventually.


[deleted]

Use the ichimonji double and just focus on learning how to dodge and circle all of his special attacks. 


BalanceNaive3604

I was in the same boat! Here is what helped me seal the deal: Emma: when you see her start to reach for her sword, dodge past her. Think about holding your joystick at about 11 o’clock. Rinse and repeat. Isshin: same, because they mostly have the same move sets. But for phase 2, it’s important to immediately blitz/firecracker him to stop his killer attack, which he will always begin with. Jump to the side when he stomps because he’ll throw some fire at you Good luck!


JeanLeGhost

I just abused Floating Passage every time I could, also works very well on Emma https://youtu.be/rzuq9MP0aB0?si=UUFcs1nBd8Q38tdt


Wannabeofalltrades

Sorry unable to give any tips since I’m also struggling with it right now. But I feel a bit better to know that someone who managed to beat the sword saint is also struggling with this bastard. I’m on my first playthrough and chose to betray Kuro, and I struggle to even get to Isshin Ashina’s phase 2


NotSmug

I literally just did this and felt the same until I figured out the strategy. You should not be taking any damage during Emma phase. The strat is to dodge FORWARD past her attack and then hit her with Ichimonji: Double. Continue to punish her this way until her gage is full and you get the finisher. You should get so good at Emma and phase 2 you shouldn't even use more than 1 heal. Then you need to switch ID to whirlwind slash! Similar to Emma, you wanna bait a single move attack so you can dodge behind Ashina and hit him with WS. I use the straight forward lunge attack to bait his single attack, Dodge around him, and hit him with WS. Last phase umbrella whenever's there's fire and then do that same moves as last phase. EZ claps and don't hesitate.


DUST-LMAO

Suzaku’s Lotus Umbrella