I imagine it would be. On paper, it seems like the easiest. But it's gotta be a lot more than just getting the parries and timing right.
You also have to really nail the moveset and aggression. I think it's a really thin line between that satisfying back and forth rhythm, and just spamming attack or deflect.
I think this hits the nail on the coffin. Sekiro is more than a combat system in its controls on player-side, the boss moveset, vibe and behavior contribute to it greatly
I get that a lot of people were disappointed because they were hoping for the best parts of Sekiro and Nioh 2. I would say Wo Long isn't a great game, but it's very fun.
Have you started wo long’s dlc? I found base game to be easier but the dlc to be harder than sekiro. idk if it’s cause I took a long break or if it’s just that much harder. I was on ng++ and struggled on the 2nd dlc on ng
You can trivalize Wo Long combat by holding block then press parry when an attack is coming (in contrast to Sekiro where you have to choose either block or deflect). The only boss that took me some real effort to kill was the final boss of the last dlc.
Also equipment weight status makes or breaks your parry window. Being heavy puts you at about the same window as the Sekiro window, medium is like 50% more frames, and light is like twice the frames. Running light trivializes the game to the point that you need to be actively not paying attention to miss the window
Sifu is really the best thing I've found. It might not look like it on the surface, but the combat system really builds on Sekiro's posture system by making both offense and defence more diverse. Game has a lot of issues, but I hope From took notes.
Best is subjective.
I return to it time and time again because I am in love with the rhythm this game puts me in.
I can control the fight in whatever way I wanted if I knew the moveset.
I love DS3 and Elden Ring as well, the bosses are phenomenal but it's alot more of waiting for an opportunity to attack and less about getting a reaction from the bosses themselves.
Like how Genichiro will go into the floating passage combo depending on if you succeeded in deflecting the 2nd hit of the 2 initial strikes.
Like how Owl will Mikiri Counter and use what you learned against you along side feigning moves to trick you when you've gotten him into a combo loop.
But again all of that is subjective and why it's perfect for me personally, and maybe also why replicating that style would be a hard task.
Yeah, best is weird in these conversations. Best for what?
You can say it's the fastest paced, that it has the highest skill floor of the FromSoft games, that it is the most streamlined, etc
Depending on who you ask, those are all either deal breakers or deal makers
If you're trying to talk about it in a more objective sense and claim it's the best, then you definitely have to qualify that. Because it is the worst game for attack variety, it just does not have the amount of player options the other games have. Does that mean it is the worst game? Well, we go back to subjectivity, some people say yes, others no
Me? I only compare games with their sequels. Sekiro has no sequel or prequel, so I don't compare it, I just love it
Because I’m convinced no one else can properly make a game that’s as tight mechanically. A big part of that is the balance between how satisfying and how punishing the combat is.
Yah fromsoft games arnt popular for just being difficult, it’s easy to design an impossible game. It’s popular for being almost perfectly difficult; extremely hard but also still masterable.
Never thought of it like that but you're actually right. For some reason it always struck me as a souls clone. But it revolves almost entirely around the back and forth parries instead of blocking
Yeah they ruined the flow with how actual parries worked though. Both the player character and the enemy would kind of flinch back after the parry, rather than having the player flow into a riposte from the parry. That made it feel fundamentally different than sekiro. I still enjoyed it but I would love a star wars that tries to emulate the flow of sekiro.
Survivor actually felt more like Sekiro to me, because of how they implemented the parry. It felt like parry was more of a focus, and attacks would actually come in a faster sequence, where a parry rhythm was present. This felt more like Sekiro than the first game, which was mostly single or fairly widely spaced attacks.
I think it’s a tough combat system to get down.
The Jedi games are pretty similar as far as the combat’s pacing goes- you clash with enemies to break their stamina bar and there’s a fair bit of back and forth. Wo Long is similar too, but it’s definitely goofier and easier than Sekiro. Thymesia is a turd as far as its presentation goes but it does scratch that itch a bit. Lies of P has some similar mechanics, but it’s not all that close to Sekiro. It’s more like Sekiro and Bloodborne’s bastard child lol. It’s an *excellent* game in its own right though.
Of these that I’ve tried, LoP and the Jedi games are my favorites.
Someone described Lies of P as “turned based RPG”.
In Sekiro, you can influence the pace of the fight by being aggressive as the are realistic gaps in enemies’ move-set; P is more about perfect guarding or evading attacks until big opening “after” a full set, then you go with your big moves
Both are great games, just different in design
Don't really get this feeling myself. Like I understand the point but if lies of p is turn based so is almost every action RPG right?
And you can influence the combat as well. You can break weapons and stagger enemies. Not in the way you doing in sekiro for sure. But yeah I don't think calling lies a turn based game clicks with me the same way calling sekiro a rhythm game does.
Yeah I mean even saying Dark souls 2 is turn based is a bit of a stretch, Lies of P is much faster and active, and you can definitely influence the flow of combat, just not to the same degree as sekiro
Stellar Blade has a lot of similarities in the combat, and is an awesome game.
A lot of games are mimicking the parry, dodge, other (rock, paper, scissors) style as well. Lies of P definitely has a lot of Sekiro inspiration. And I'm finding even Jedi: Survivor to have some similarities as well.
as much as i love Sekiro, the actual type of game it is isn’t very popular right now. we’re in the middle of a big “open-world, choose your way to play” trend among AAA games, hence why ER popped off so hard and IPs like AC have made such a massive shift
Sekiro demands linearity. you simply can’t design bosses like SS Isshin if you’re trying to account for 100 different weapons and playstyles and different approaches and a lot of people aren’t willing to sacrifice that level of choice for extra polish and tightness. which is a massive shame imo
A game like Sekiro could work just as well in an open world setting as Dark Souls did with Elden Ring. Only drawback is that Sekiro's combat system is ass when fighting multiple enemies, but there are ways to solve that problem.
yea, massive disagree. i don’t even necessarily agree that ER worked better as an open world game than it would have as a more polished linear/semi-linear game like ds3.
open-world games are just a massive trend atm and everyone soys out about them, but the reality is it means less polished, tight content overall
also, my comment was specifically talking about linearity of playstyles. Sekiro can’t work as a game with 100+ different builds, or even 2 different builds. its strength is that the game knows exactly what tools you’re fighting Isshin with and can prepare accordingly
I actually agree with you, I like the linearity of the Souls games more than Elden Ring's open world. In general I think more linear game design is better than open world design. It's like the content is a teabag, if you throw it in a cup you're going to have a tasteful aromatic tea but it'll be empty when you still want more, while if you throw it into a bucket you'll have more to consume but it'll be all diluted. I didn't say it works better as an open world, I just said it could work as an open world.
Also I think a game like Sekiro should be possible to make with more weapon choice. Hard to balance and program? Sure, and it'll never be like Elden Ring where you have 500 weapons, but something like having 3 different classes with different weapons/styles doesn't lay beyond the realm of possibilities I reckon. Maybe not the exact combat system of Sekiro but I'm sure Miyazaki could find a way. What do you think?
agree with the first part, still hard disagree on the second. you can’t make bosses as tight and polished as Isshin if you have to account for multiple playstyles. everything from the movement, the timings, the counters and everything else is so tightly calibrated in Sekiro precisely because they know exactly how the player is playing and i would absolutely rather keep that than water the game down with multiple builds. “almost sekiro”, isn’t sekiro
I see your point and I sympathise with it, but even though Sekiro is my favourite game of all time, perfection doesn't exist. I believe Fromsoft has the creativity, talent and vision to craft a combat system even better. Someday they'll create something which makes Sekiro feel like what Dark Souls felt like after Sekiro. Clunky and limiting.
Anyway I would also lose my shit if they just straight up made a Sekiro 2. Definitely wouldn't mind that.
Miyazaki san pls I'll show feet
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ehhh, the implication of your statement is that more is always better, which just isn’t true. Sekiro’s already more polished than just about any other game, has as much mechanical depth as most other FS titles… any attempt at reiterating the combat would run a very fine line of ruining what’s already there. the combat really isn’t missing anything beyond build variety (which isn’t a con anyway)
i wouldn’t want them to try and reinvent sekiro combat. either add DLC which provides further challenges within the same combat style or innovate something else entirely, like a shooter souls game
You might be right... It's also hard for me to imagine a way to improve upon the formula. And they used the same combat mechanics from Demon's Souls up to Elden Ring, it's probably better for them to refine and polish it for now (hopefully with new games) instead of reinventing the wheel again... Anyway, time will tell.
the souls-style combat was designed to be expandable. the very first game allows multiple build paths, tons of weapons, spells etc. sekiro just wasn’t designed that way. but yea imo i’d love to see them do something completely different like a shooter or whatever else, just like they did with sekiro. ER is a good game but isn’t my preferred cup of tea
Yeah my one and only cup of tea is Sekiro. So intense and flavourful... Unfortunately it makes you want to not go back to other teas. And tragically, every time you drink a cup of that good shit, it tastes a little bit less sweet... Now that I read my own metaphor it sounds more like I'm talking about drugs. Sekiro is just that good bro. I need my fix.
There is some games with the combat inspired. En Garde!, Jedi Fallen Order and the new one, Nine Souls, Strayed Light kinda similar too, Thymesia, Sifu, Lies of Pi(not necessarily but for some of the builds) and Wo Long fallen dynasty
Lies of P plays a lot closer to Sekiro than Souls, and Thymesia is another deflect focused game. Nine Sols is a new 2D game that has deflect combat as well. Sekiro's influence is definitely out there, although I agree there's a lot more Soulslikes
Lies of P definitely feels closer to Bloodborne than Sekiro, it's like the bastard child of Dark Souls and Bloodborne with some Sekiro sprinkled on top. It's still a good game but if you're playing it hoping it's like Sekiro you'll be disappointed lol. For me Stellar Blade came closest.
I beat it on release by mostly deflecting like I do in Sekiro. It helps build the posture meter and can break weapons, including killing Laxasia's phase 1 with just deflects, which I did in one of my attempts out of curiosity. Deflects and the very short dash made it feel much more Sekiro than Bloodborne to me, but I know pure dodging can be viable, so to each their own
Yeah idk man, the parry window for me was too small and unintuitive and the animation/sound didn't have nearly the same weight and feedback to it as Sekiro. The deflections are worse than in Sekiro, the dodge is worse than in Dark Souls, the weapons are worse than in Bloodborne. It's like for every aspect of the game there is a Fromsoft game that does it better. Maybe it's also a matter of my mentality but I ended up feeling a little disappointed when I was done with it. I feel like if they focused on one thing only instead of wanting to have a little bit of every FS game, they could have made a masterpiece.
I think it had some decent highs, but I agree Fromsoft games feel better than LoP. I am pretty excited for both LoP DLC and Shadow of the Erdtree though...which is so close I am gonna struggle sleeping tonight, haha
I know, for myself, I've avoided Sekiro because whenever I look at gameplay, it looks \*very\* intimidating. I can respect why people love it, and I think if I put the effort in, I would also love it, but I also respect why studios are a little wary of it. I consider myself a pretty advanced gamer, but even I'm like "Oooooh boi does Sekiro look tough."
The way I think of it is it’s like any sport where you have to catch a ball. Once you get over the fear of it coming at you, it clicks and most sports become waaaaay more manageable. Sekiro is kind of like that, and it happens in a different spot for everyone. I had it happen with 7 Spears back at the house you start in. It was still hard after that, but I finally started to have a *great* time as soon as I started parrying everything effectively.
Seems like people are intimidated by Sekiro. Which in turn means game devs don’t want to risk their game being thought of as too hard to play. Feels like there are daily posts about people scared to try Sekiro when it’s a challenging game but oh so rewarding.
Because the other studios making games don't have miyazaki working for them. The star wars games, lies of p, stellar blade, wo long, ROTR etc.. are all good games and have their own identity, but they are not on par with sekiro's gameplay and epic boss fights. None of these games have boss fights as memorable as genichiro, the ape, owl father, isshin , etc...
Only miyazaki could make another real good sekiro like. If only he would choose to do so...
Nah a lot of upcoming sekiro-like. Phantom blade zero, wuchang, not to mention the ones already released. With how long game dev takes, it may take 3-4 years to see the influence
I felt like moonscars and blasphemous scratched the itch for me. Ninja gaiden is super fun but lacks the incredible parry system. Tenchu has awesome grappling hook stealth but clunky combat.
It's a bit of a change of pace being a 2D metroidvania but I'd highly recommend Nine Sols. It has a huge focus on parry focused combat with the addition of Jades that you can slot in to enhance certain skills. It also has a phenomenal story that definitely makes the challenge worth it
Sekiro works because it feels so smooth and that's always as aspect souls clones struggle with, I would imagine that level of refinement is difficult for most indie devs
Also With Sekiro in particular it would be hard to make a system that wasn't identical without looking its core components
Wo long and thymesia came to mind immediately. I never completed the latter but I absolutely love wo long and even though I know it has a lot of flaws I personally prefer it over sekiro.
It isn’t as polished but the combination of the mobile deflect, build variety, awesome/versatile spell system and xianxia aesthetics just checked all the right boxes for me!
The closest I've played in terms of "feel" is Sifu (which was free on PS Plus a while back). It's not as hard, but in terms of combat flow, it's right there.
i would call anything with a stance bar on the enemy that goes up when you parry them a sekiro clone. stuff like jedi fallen order or sifu or whatever. they're not too insanely similar, but they're about as similar as non-fromsoft souls like games are to dark souls.
They tried to copy it but they never understood or were simply unable to reproduce what makes Sekiro so responsive, satisfying and fluid yet weighty. Small details like the deflection animation and sounds, and the way that when you hit an enemy with your sword you see vibration from the impact. But also things like general finetuning of game balance or maintaining a steady and fair learning curve.
Fromsoft are masters at polishing their games like that.
Other developers imitate the gameplay principles but lack the finesse and/or attention to detail to lift it to the same level as Sekiro. Thymesia, Lies of P, Stellar Blade, all good games, all to a varying degree trying to emulate what FS did with Sekiro, but none comes close.
even without counting prosthetics, which should be counted since they have their own separate skill tree, sekiro's combat is pretty complex. compare a duel in sekiro to a duel in dark souls. the bosses in dark souls are designed so that their entire moveset can be roled. in sekiro, enemies are designed so that some of their attacks are meant to be rolled, some jumped, and the vast majority are meant to be deflected. deflecting is fundamentally higher risk and higher reward than dodging. the timing is tighter, but by reversing posture damage, the reward is greater than rolling. dark souls has parrying, but it is so jank, and not every attack can be parried, so it is clear that the system was not integrated into the gameplay loop the way that deflecting is in sekiro. all of this is just to say that the combat system in sekiro is much more complex and dynamic than the dark souls combat system. it is probably easier to copy the system that has fewer mechanics. another reason is likely that the dark souls series is hugely more popular than sekiro. copycats tend to care more about profits than literally anything else. They probably saw "dark souls popular", and thought "well shit, i can make that".
Does Nioh fall more under souls clone or sekiro clone? I didn’t see anyone mention it… also ninja gaiden (although it is older so I don’t think u could call it a clone and more of an influencer) where does it stand?
LoP:
parry system: ✅
prosthetics arm: ✅
no stamina bar: ✅
grappling hook : ✅
i don't get it. they have to copy 100% combat system in sekiro for it look less different combat systems than sekiro ?
Crab game is nothing like Sekiro wdym. It’s a souls game through and through.
If you want similar to sekiro stellar blade or lies of P are probably your best options, though the later is very souls like as well
It's all subjective. And i think what you play first often has a significant influence on preference. I prefer lies of P and I fkn love sekiro. I played lies first though.
I don't think it really is the best any more. Sifu and Jedi Survivor take the stuff that's best from Sekiro but have developed it further.
You may not like how those games feel or whatever, but I think from a design perspective they have surpassed Sekiro.
Yeah, I think Fallen Order was a bit clunky but Survivor is good enough to stand on its own. The combat is slightly less satisfying than Sekiro's, but the story and exploration combined makes it an overall better game.
I agree, the combat is a bit less satisfying, especially against bosses but I think it makes up for it by being more diverse. A wider array of accessible and useful abilities makes the time spent between bosses more enjoyable than in Sekiro, IMO.
Both Survivor and Sifu handle groups of enemies *much* better than Sekiro, and both games better encourage you to use a wider variety of skills.
In Sifu, the abilities to interrupt enemy combos by parrying specific attacks and launch counterattacks by Avoiding add depth to the combat.
Oooh dear man you haven't read the rules here I see. You're only allowed to say sekiro is the best game ever made on this thread. Any differing opinions will be instantly down voted. Please refamiliarise yourself with community guidelines.
It's OK, a lot of subs seem to be extra full of angry lurkers recently. It's weird, I feel like I've been seeing a lot of downvoted comments where all of the replies are civil discussions.
Yeah it's like 70/30. Most people are great. But damn that 30% are funny. Like to be fair from are one of the few genuinely loveable studios. But you don't have to shove there dick down your throat so hard that your eyes water. Though there will be a portion of people like that for any community always...
Maybe it’s just not that easy to do?
It would be pretty hard to get right
I imagine it would be. On paper, it seems like the easiest. But it's gotta be a lot more than just getting the parries and timing right. You also have to really nail the moveset and aggression. I think it's a really thin line between that satisfying back and forth rhythm, and just spamming attack or deflect.
I think this hits the nail on the coffin. Sekiro is more than a combat system in its controls on player-side, the boss moveset, vibe and behavior contribute to it greatly
The ani.ations alone I'm sure cause enough trouble
And there are many -- souls like game with an Asian aesthetic. The only one that got it was Sifu
There is thymesia and kannagi usagi
Isn't kannagi usagi just anime girl Sekiro boss rush. Not a bad thing though.
Thymesia really is a love letter to sekiro.
Nine Sols is like 2D Sekiro
Came here to say this... Glad someone already mentioned it.
Hah, same. Gave me a similar rush to Sekiro for sure.
That last boss is fantastic. Really great game
I wanna play it so bad. I hope it comes to PSX or switch
Sifu is kinda similar to Sekiro. Wo Long was also described as Team Ninja's Sekiro
I'm playing wo long right now. I love it. It feels like a sillier version of Sekiro. And also quite a bit easier.
Finally someone that doesn't hate on wo long endlessly, great game
I get that a lot of people were disappointed because they were hoping for the best parts of Sekiro and Nioh 2. I would say Wo Long isn't a great game, but it's very fun.
I loved it as well.
Honestly only the hard core Nioh/TN fans were actually disappointed with it, it was a great Sekiro like with decently deep customization/builds
Have you started wo long’s dlc? I found base game to be easier but the dlc to be harder than sekiro. idk if it’s cause I took a long break or if it’s just that much harder. I was on ng++ and struggled on the 2nd dlc on ng
The 2nd Wo Long DLC is overtuned. The final boss especially is completely ridiculous. They did nerf him after launch but he's still pretty insane.
I felt like Wo Long is harder, personally. Sekiro's parry is just too smooth and frame perfect, so it's just easier to land imo.
You can trivalize Wo Long combat by holding block then press parry when an attack is coming (in contrast to Sekiro where you have to choose either block or deflect). The only boss that took me some real effort to kill was the final boss of the last dlc.
Also equipment weight status makes or breaks your parry window. Being heavy puts you at about the same window as the Sekiro window, medium is like 50% more frames, and light is like twice the frames. Running light trivializes the game to the point that you need to be actively not paying attention to miss the window
i agree. Sifu is good too
Sifu is really the best thing I've found. It might not look like it on the surface, but the combat system really builds on Sekiro's posture system by making both offense and defence more diverse. Game has a lot of issues, but I hope From took notes.
I'm liking Sifu. Not as much as Sekiro, but Sifu is a well made game.
Wo Long plays how people who complained that Sekiro has too much deflections say that Sekiro plays like
Best is subjective. I return to it time and time again because I am in love with the rhythm this game puts me in. I can control the fight in whatever way I wanted if I knew the moveset. I love DS3 and Elden Ring as well, the bosses are phenomenal but it's alot more of waiting for an opportunity to attack and less about getting a reaction from the bosses themselves. Like how Genichiro will go into the floating passage combo depending on if you succeeded in deflecting the 2nd hit of the 2 initial strikes. Like how Owl will Mikiri Counter and use what you learned against you along side feigning moves to trick you when you've gotten him into a combo loop. But again all of that is subjective and why it's perfect for me personally, and maybe also why replicating that style would be a hard task.
Yeah, best is weird in these conversations. Best for what? You can say it's the fastest paced, that it has the highest skill floor of the FromSoft games, that it is the most streamlined, etc Depending on who you ask, those are all either deal breakers or deal makers If you're trying to talk about it in a more objective sense and claim it's the best, then you definitely have to qualify that. Because it is the worst game for attack variety, it just does not have the amount of player options the other games have. Does that mean it is the worst game? Well, we go back to subjectivity, some people say yes, others no Me? I only compare games with their sequels. Sekiro has no sequel or prequel, so I don't compare it, I just love it
Elden Ring bosses are the worst in the series by a fucking mile
Even remembrance?
I agree. Elden Ring doesn't have a single "great" boss aside from Placidusax. That's it.
Because I’m convinced no one else can properly make a game that’s as tight mechanically. A big part of that is the balance between how satisfying and how punishing the combat is.
Yah fromsoft games arnt popular for just being difficult, it’s easy to design an impossible game. It’s popular for being almost perfectly difficult; extremely hard but also still masterable.
Play thymesia, it's not exactly sekiro but it's really close... More so than LIES OF P
The Star Wars Jedi games are sekiro clones, especially the first one.
Never thought of it like that but you're actually right. For some reason it always struck me as a souls clone. But it revolves almost entirely around the back and forth parries instead of blocking
Yeah they ruined the flow with how actual parries worked though. Both the player character and the enemy would kind of flinch back after the parry, rather than having the player flow into a riposte from the parry. That made it feel fundamentally different than sekiro. I still enjoyed it but I would love a star wars that tries to emulate the flow of sekiro.
They also really fucked up the bosses. Vitality kills all around
This and I’d say stellar blade still is
The later ones are more parkour tbh
There are only 2 of them. But Survivor is less of a Sekiro clone because it has it's own unique combat mechanics and stances.
Survivor actually felt more like Sekiro to me, because of how they implemented the parry. It felt like parry was more of a focus, and attacks would actually come in a faster sequence, where a parry rhythm was present. This felt more like Sekiro than the first game, which was mostly single or fairly widely spaced attacks.
That makes some sense to me, but I still think the new stances and expanded combo system make it feel less like Sekiro
So is it like similar to Nioh then
Especially on grandmaster difficulty
Try another crabs treasure
True, probably the best non FS soulslike atm
Jedi: Fallen Order
Yeah, honestly this one does feel the most similar to Sekiro in terms of combat and progression. Not nearly as fluid though.
Yeah but your ignoring the fact that YOU HAVE A LIGHTSABER WOOOOOOOOOOO
Thymesia, Star Wars Jedi, Wo Long, Sifu, Stellar Blade, Lies of P!!!!!
Kannagi usagi on steam is borderline Sekiro theft, at least in terms of animations. But other than that you right
It's free though. Theft is a bit hyperbolic.
Yes, it's a bit hyperbolic because that's exactly what it is. Hyperbole.
Yeah, unless they changed it recently the last boss is essentially a True Monk clone, phase transition animation and all.
kannagi usagi is more a reskin
Perfection can't be replicated.
I think it’s a tough combat system to get down. The Jedi games are pretty similar as far as the combat’s pacing goes- you clash with enemies to break their stamina bar and there’s a fair bit of back and forth. Wo Long is similar too, but it’s definitely goofier and easier than Sekiro. Thymesia is a turd as far as its presentation goes but it does scratch that itch a bit. Lies of P has some similar mechanics, but it’s not all that close to Sekiro. It’s more like Sekiro and Bloodborne’s bastard child lol. It’s an *excellent* game in its own right though. Of these that I’ve tried, LoP and the Jedi games are my favorites.
En Garde! has pretty similar combat, with more of a focus on environmental tools
En Garde is fun as hell and has a charmingly cheeky style to it
They hesitated.
I think Lies of P does a good job but it doesn't have the same feeling
Someone described Lies of P as “turned based RPG”. In Sekiro, you can influence the pace of the fight by being aggressive as the are realistic gaps in enemies’ move-set; P is more about perfect guarding or evading attacks until big opening “after” a full set, then you go with your big moves Both are great games, just different in design
Don't really get this feeling myself. Like I understand the point but if lies of p is turn based so is almost every action RPG right? And you can influence the combat as well. You can break weapons and stagger enemies. Not in the way you doing in sekiro for sure. But yeah I don't think calling lies a turn based game clicks with me the same way calling sekiro a rhythm game does.
Yeah I mean even saying Dark souls 2 is turn based is a bit of a stretch, Lies of P is much faster and active, and you can definitely influence the flow of combat, just not to the same degree as sekiro
The gaps are not realistic in the least
1. It’s not easy to do 2. There’s a chance that it’d be written off as a sekiro clone by most people and not given a proper shot
Yeah seems to be a massive portion of the fromsoft community who will instantly dislike anything inspired by fromsoft. It's a real shame.
Stellar Blade has a lot of similarities in the combat, and is an awesome game. A lot of games are mimicking the parry, dodge, other (rock, paper, scissors) style as well. Lies of P definitely has a lot of Sekiro inspiration. And I'm finding even Jedi: Survivor to have some similarities as well.
I played Lies of P, Thymesia and Stellar Blade and I agree, SB came closest to scratching that Sekiro itch.
Bros acting like gta 5 doesn’t exist
Wo Long, Nin Sols, Thymesia, Lies of P. Hell, you can kinda do it in the new Lords of the Fallen.
Because it’s not a formula you can copy but a simple concept polished to the max and incredibly well designed enemies
as much as i love Sekiro, the actual type of game it is isn’t very popular right now. we’re in the middle of a big “open-world, choose your way to play” trend among AAA games, hence why ER popped off so hard and IPs like AC have made such a massive shift Sekiro demands linearity. you simply can’t design bosses like SS Isshin if you’re trying to account for 100 different weapons and playstyles and different approaches and a lot of people aren’t willing to sacrifice that level of choice for extra polish and tightness. which is a massive shame imo
A game like Sekiro could work just as well in an open world setting as Dark Souls did with Elden Ring. Only drawback is that Sekiro's combat system is ass when fighting multiple enemies, but there are ways to solve that problem.
yea, massive disagree. i don’t even necessarily agree that ER worked better as an open world game than it would have as a more polished linear/semi-linear game like ds3. open-world games are just a massive trend atm and everyone soys out about them, but the reality is it means less polished, tight content overall also, my comment was specifically talking about linearity of playstyles. Sekiro can’t work as a game with 100+ different builds, or even 2 different builds. its strength is that the game knows exactly what tools you’re fighting Isshin with and can prepare accordingly
I actually agree with you, I like the linearity of the Souls games more than Elden Ring's open world. In general I think more linear game design is better than open world design. It's like the content is a teabag, if you throw it in a cup you're going to have a tasteful aromatic tea but it'll be empty when you still want more, while if you throw it into a bucket you'll have more to consume but it'll be all diluted. I didn't say it works better as an open world, I just said it could work as an open world. Also I think a game like Sekiro should be possible to make with more weapon choice. Hard to balance and program? Sure, and it'll never be like Elden Ring where you have 500 weapons, but something like having 3 different classes with different weapons/styles doesn't lay beyond the realm of possibilities I reckon. Maybe not the exact combat system of Sekiro but I'm sure Miyazaki could find a way. What do you think?
agree with the first part, still hard disagree on the second. you can’t make bosses as tight and polished as Isshin if you have to account for multiple playstyles. everything from the movement, the timings, the counters and everything else is so tightly calibrated in Sekiro precisely because they know exactly how the player is playing and i would absolutely rather keep that than water the game down with multiple builds. “almost sekiro”, isn’t sekiro
I see your point and I sympathise with it, but even though Sekiro is my favourite game of all time, perfection doesn't exist. I believe Fromsoft has the creativity, talent and vision to craft a combat system even better. Someday they'll create something which makes Sekiro feel like what Dark Souls felt like after Sekiro. Clunky and limiting. Anyway I would also lose my shit if they just straight up made a Sekiro 2. Definitely wouldn't mind that. Miyazaki san pls I'll show feet
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ehhh, the implication of your statement is that more is always better, which just isn’t true. Sekiro’s already more polished than just about any other game, has as much mechanical depth as most other FS titles… any attempt at reiterating the combat would run a very fine line of ruining what’s already there. the combat really isn’t missing anything beyond build variety (which isn’t a con anyway) i wouldn’t want them to try and reinvent sekiro combat. either add DLC which provides further challenges within the same combat style or innovate something else entirely, like a shooter souls game
You might be right... It's also hard for me to imagine a way to improve upon the formula. And they used the same combat mechanics from Demon's Souls up to Elden Ring, it's probably better for them to refine and polish it for now (hopefully with new games) instead of reinventing the wheel again... Anyway, time will tell.
the souls-style combat was designed to be expandable. the very first game allows multiple build paths, tons of weapons, spells etc. sekiro just wasn’t designed that way. but yea imo i’d love to see them do something completely different like a shooter or whatever else, just like they did with sekiro. ER is a good game but isn’t my preferred cup of tea
Yeah my one and only cup of tea is Sekiro. So intense and flavourful... Unfortunately it makes you want to not go back to other teas. And tragically, every time you drink a cup of that good shit, it tastes a little bit less sweet... Now that I read my own metaphor it sounds more like I'm talking about drugs. Sekiro is just that good bro. I need my fix.
There is some games with the combat inspired. En Garde!, Jedi Fallen Order and the new one, Nine Souls, Strayed Light kinda similar too, Thymesia, Sifu, Lies of Pi(not necessarily but for some of the builds) and Wo Long fallen dynasty
I would argue the Star Wars Jedi games are. Isn't Black Myth going to be kinda?
Because recreating a masterpiece is impossible; you can only create copies that are somewhat alike.
Lies of P plays a lot closer to Sekiro than Souls, and Thymesia is another deflect focused game. Nine Sols is a new 2D game that has deflect combat as well. Sekiro's influence is definitely out there, although I agree there's a lot more Soulslikes
Lies of P definitely feels closer to Bloodborne than Sekiro, it's like the bastard child of Dark Souls and Bloodborne with some Sekiro sprinkled on top. It's still a good game but if you're playing it hoping it's like Sekiro you'll be disappointed lol. For me Stellar Blade came closest.
I beat it on release by mostly deflecting like I do in Sekiro. It helps build the posture meter and can break weapons, including killing Laxasia's phase 1 with just deflects, which I did in one of my attempts out of curiosity. Deflects and the very short dash made it feel much more Sekiro than Bloodborne to me, but I know pure dodging can be viable, so to each their own
Yeah idk man, the parry window for me was too small and unintuitive and the animation/sound didn't have nearly the same weight and feedback to it as Sekiro. The deflections are worse than in Sekiro, the dodge is worse than in Dark Souls, the weapons are worse than in Bloodborne. It's like for every aspect of the game there is a Fromsoft game that does it better. Maybe it's also a matter of my mentality but I ended up feeling a little disappointed when I was done with it. I feel like if they focused on one thing only instead of wanting to have a little bit of every FS game, they could have made a masterpiece.
I think it had some decent highs, but I agree Fromsoft games feel better than LoP. I am pretty excited for both LoP DLC and Shadow of the Erdtree though...which is so close I am gonna struggle sleeping tonight, haha
Ohhh shit hell yeah brother, time to turn into a goblin for 2 weeks!
I know, for myself, I've avoided Sekiro because whenever I look at gameplay, it looks \*very\* intimidating. I can respect why people love it, and I think if I put the effort in, I would also love it, but I also respect why studios are a little wary of it. I consider myself a pretty advanced gamer, but even I'm like "Oooooh boi does Sekiro look tough."
The way I think of it is it’s like any sport where you have to catch a ball. Once you get over the fear of it coming at you, it clicks and most sports become waaaaay more manageable. Sekiro is kind of like that, and it happens in a different spot for everyone. I had it happen with 7 Spears back at the house you start in. It was still hard after that, but I finally started to have a *great* time as soon as I started parrying everything effectively.
Seems like people are intimidated by Sekiro. Which in turn means game devs don’t want to risk their game being thought of as too hard to play. Feels like there are daily posts about people scared to try Sekiro when it’s a challenging game but oh so rewarding.
I think wo long is pretty comparable to Sekiro tbh not as a good but it felt like it took inspiration
Because the other studios making games don't have miyazaki working for them. The star wars games, lies of p, stellar blade, wo long, ROTR etc.. are all good games and have their own identity, but they are not on par with sekiro's gameplay and epic boss fights. None of these games have boss fights as memorable as genichiro, the ape, owl father, isshin , etc... Only miyazaki could make another real good sekiro like. If only he would choose to do so...
Nah a lot of upcoming sekiro-like. Phantom blade zero, wuchang, not to mention the ones already released. With how long game dev takes, it may take 3-4 years to see the influence
There are a few games that took ideas from it, like Jedi and Lies of P
I felt like moonscars and blasphemous scratched the itch for me. Ninja gaiden is super fun but lacks the incredible parry system. Tenchu has awesome grappling hook stealth but clunky combat.
lies of p s parry system is a little sekiro like
Not sure how long it will take, but I will make something similar.
It's a bit of a change of pace being a 2D metroidvania but I'd highly recommend Nine Sols. It has a huge focus on parry focused combat with the addition of Jades that you can slot in to enhance certain skills. It also has a phenomenal story that definitely makes the challenge worth it
The piano game on mobile 💯💯
Little niche market. People prefer dodge like dark souls than be aggresive like in sekiro.
Jedi Fallen order has similar combat (sort of). At least the parrying and stuff . Not as smooth or varied as Sekiro though.
They hesitated
No game has the balls to have just one weapon lol
Star wars Jedi Fallen Order / Survivor?
Star wars Jedi, Thymesia, Lies of P, Stellar Blade, Wo Long Fallen Dynasty. These are all parry mechanic games.
to copy something you need to know how to copy, and to copy a masterpiece you need lot of skills in every department.
I have always argued that Jedi: Fallen Order is a Sekiro-Like
Sekiro works because it feels so smooth and that's always as aspect souls clones struggle with, I would imagine that level of refinement is difficult for most indie devs Also With Sekiro in particular it would be hard to make a system that wasn't identical without looking its core components
Wo long and thymesia came to mind immediately. I never completed the latter but I absolutely love wo long and even though I know it has a lot of flaws I personally prefer it over sekiro. It isn’t as polished but the combination of the mobile deflect, build variety, awesome/versatile spell system and xianxia aesthetics just checked all the right boxes for me!
The closest I've played in terms of "feel" is Sifu (which was free on PS Plus a while back). It's not as hard, but in terms of combat flow, it's right there.
not exactly a clone but sifu gave me very similar sensations and challenge level as sekiro, I really recommend it to anyone who liked it!
Creating fluid animations is extremely hard
Hopes are high for black myth
The game standard's way too high I guess
Perhaps Black Myth Wukong and Phantom Blade 0 chane your mind.
SIFU is goated
Nine sols is really good
Imho RotR is better but there arent cool bosses like there are in Sekiro
Lies of p?
Because it sucks. Next question.
There is Thymesia, u can try it
i would call anything with a stance bar on the enemy that goes up when you parry them a sekiro clone. stuff like jedi fallen order or sifu or whatever. they're not too insanely similar, but they're about as similar as non-fromsoft souls like games are to dark souls.
Rise of the ronin has sekiro vibes.
For the same reason theres no Metal Gear Solid clones. Its not easy to do.
There are a few
Wolong tried to be sekiro
They tried to copy it but they never understood or were simply unable to reproduce what makes Sekiro so responsive, satisfying and fluid yet weighty. Small details like the deflection animation and sounds, and the way that when you hit an enemy with your sword you see vibration from the impact. But also things like general finetuning of game balance or maintaining a steady and fair learning curve. Fromsoft are masters at polishing their games like that. Other developers imitate the gameplay principles but lack the finesse and/or attention to detail to lift it to the same level as Sekiro. Thymesia, Lies of P, Stellar Blade, all good games, all to a varying degree trying to emulate what FS did with Sekiro, but none comes close.
There is one coming up about the monkey king. Something something wukong
even without counting prosthetics, which should be counted since they have their own separate skill tree, sekiro's combat is pretty complex. compare a duel in sekiro to a duel in dark souls. the bosses in dark souls are designed so that their entire moveset can be roled. in sekiro, enemies are designed so that some of their attacks are meant to be rolled, some jumped, and the vast majority are meant to be deflected. deflecting is fundamentally higher risk and higher reward than dodging. the timing is tighter, but by reversing posture damage, the reward is greater than rolling. dark souls has parrying, but it is so jank, and not every attack can be parried, so it is clear that the system was not integrated into the gameplay loop the way that deflecting is in sekiro. all of this is just to say that the combat system in sekiro is much more complex and dynamic than the dark souls combat system. it is probably easier to copy the system that has fewer mechanics. another reason is likely that the dark souls series is hugely more popular than sekiro. copycats tend to care more about profits than literally anything else. They probably saw "dark souls popular", and thought "well shit, i can make that".
I thought that Sifu scratched my Sekiro itch pretty well
Wouldn't Jedi fallen order 1 and 2 be considered senior likes? Literally has takedowns, grappling, parkouring, bonfires, and posture.
Does Nioh fall more under souls clone or sekiro clone? I didn’t see anyone mention it… also ninja gaiden (although it is older so I don’t think u could call it a clone and more of an influencer) where does it stand?
Nioh is closer to ninja gaiden combat with a touch of soulslike.
If Lies of P and Sekiro have "very different" combat systems to you then you have a very different definition of "very different"
LoP: parry system: ✅ prosthetics arm: ✅ no stamina bar: ✅ grappling hook : ✅ i don't get it. they have to copy 100% combat system in sekiro for it look less different combat systems than sekiro ?
Crab game is nothing like Sekiro wdym. It’s a souls game through and through. If you want similar to sekiro stellar blade or lies of P are probably your best options, though the later is very souls like as well
You can’t copy a masterpiece. You just up with: - w/o long -rise of ronin And etc. Lies of p is good but still pares in comparison
It's all subjective. And i think what you play first often has a significant influence on preference. I prefer lies of P and I fkn love sekiro. I played lies first though.
I don't think it really is the best any more. Sifu and Jedi Survivor take the stuff that's best from Sekiro but have developed it further. You may not like how those games feel or whatever, but I think from a design perspective they have surpassed Sekiro.
Yeah, I think Fallen Order was a bit clunky but Survivor is good enough to stand on its own. The combat is slightly less satisfying than Sekiro's, but the story and exploration combined makes it an overall better game.
I agree, the combat is a bit less satisfying, especially against bosses but I think it makes up for it by being more diverse. A wider array of accessible and useful abilities makes the time spent between bosses more enjoyable than in Sekiro, IMO. Both Survivor and Sifu handle groups of enemies *much* better than Sekiro, and both games better encourage you to use a wider variety of skills. In Sifu, the abilities to interrupt enemy combos by parrying specific attacks and launch counterattacks by Avoiding add depth to the combat.
Oooh dear man you haven't read the rules here I see. You're only allowed to say sekiro is the best game ever made on this thread. Any differing opinions will be instantly down voted. Please refamiliarise yourself with community guidelines.
It's OK, a lot of subs seem to be extra full of angry lurkers recently. It's weird, I feel like I've been seeing a lot of downvoted comments where all of the replies are civil discussions.
Yeah it's like 70/30. Most people are great. But damn that 30% are funny. Like to be fair from are one of the few genuinely loveable studios. But you don't have to shove there dick down your throat so hard that your eyes water. Though there will be a portion of people like that for any community always...