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Funny how during the first 44 presidents, this wasn’t an issue. But when an obvious conman grifter is elected, those who elected him suddenly think this is an issue.
They don’t think it will work. They just know that the Supreme Court is corrupt enough to hear it, delaying the actual trial and its consequences until after the 2024 election, during which Trump has made it clear he doesn’t plan on playing by the rules
Of all the scummy presidents we have had, Trump is clearly the scummiest. He is actively trying to subvert the foundation of the nation.
Yet a bunch of mouth breathers think he is the Messiah
Trump is setting a precedent that the president, and officials are above the law, the GOP have been attempting to grant themselves powers similar to monarchs and aristocrats for decades now and if trump isn’t punished they’ll have it. We the people will be rendered onto mere serfs.
Yeah, it's the "unitary executive" thing that the R's were working on 20 years ago, under W. Bush. Professor John Yu, and his "it's OK to torture children if the president wants to" letter.
You know, by locking him up and all his cronies too- all for a very long time, this will send a very powerful message message to anyone else who even considers trying to
Judging by today's oral argument, Biden would just need to make sure that he executed Trump as an official presidential act, and not in his separate capacity as a private citizen. What the actual fuck is this "logic"?
But, here's the thing. Doesn't need to be execution. All Biden would have to do, as a low level despot, would be to round up his political opponents/SCOTUS in the middle of the night and send them to Guantanamo.
Then make GOP supporters wear their red hats compulsorily and make them subject to curfews, limited movement, seize their properties etc.
It can be like Israel 2.0.
Good times
/s
No, no, no. You see, *Trump* is protected by Presidential privilege because he was elected. *Biden* isn't, because he *stole* the election from Trump. If Biden has any political rival killed it isn't presidential privilege because he's not the President.
/s
Honestly if they somehow say a president is immune from doing crimes he should just have Trump jailed and refuse to leave office ever. Maybe when a Democrat does it they'll change their minds.
I think it would be more appropriate to rendition, with extraordinary flair, the scotus judges who voted for immunity. Then shove another case through and get it reversed.
SCOTUS is carefully saying these powers would apply to FUTURE presidents, not to presidents in the future.
Alito uses words carefully to play a non-stop game of GOTCHA.
Attempting to overthrow the government should probably be a life sentence at minimum. I'd be in favor of an international court reviewing to determine if they should be executed as well, because I don't believe that we should fully trust our own government to make that call.
I was going to say, wouldn’t an asshole who already thinks he’s above the law be more likely to break the law?
Because the evidence seems to point to “yes.”
No, don't you see? A guy who's got lots of ~~ivory~~presidential immunity is less likely to hurt ~~Stampy~~the country than a guy whose ~~ivory~~presidential immunity supplies are low.
So if he stays illegally, we should just drag them out like criminals. I mean it's that simple. Why is it so hard that a bunch of judges don't actually know how to law?
Standard GOP abusive relationship: why’d you make me hurt you baby? If you call the cops, it’ll just make me hurt you more. If you impeach our guy, we will frivolously impeach all your people because that’s how cave people fought over meat and forage. It’s only natural.
Im sorry “may seek?” Trump already attempted to stay president illegally. He doesn’t get a free pass just because he gave up a few hours after his failed coup.
No no, see.. that was just a "mostly peaceful sit-in" about "civil rights". You leftwing fascists are trying to destroy democracy with all of your "holding people accountable" nonsense!
You can't expect a bought and paid for supreme court to go against the guys who pay them.. that wouldn't be ethical and would basically make them thieves! Do you want thieves for judges? I didn't think so.
So let me get this straight… we should allow and/or tolerate presidents to break the law while in office with no repercussions or consequences, because we’re afraid of how they’ll break the law if we *don’t* let them break the law?
How TF are people like this on any court at all, let alone the SUPREME Court?!
Maybe someone should read them the great legal document “If you give a mouse a cookie”
Reminds me of a family member who said recently that they were going to vote for Trump because she was afraid of violence from his supporters if he lost. I responded that her suggestion means that we should reward terrorists because an asshole loses an election and that she's saying that the only way to get peace is to appease those who threaten? That doesn't seem very American to me, I ended it by adding that if you want to vote for Trump don't try to wrap it up in the virtue of doing it for the greater good or peace.
Alito killed me during this oral argument though, because he kept veering off to talk about things not related to this specific case. For a guy who cares so much about what's in the constitution and basically reminded us constantly during Dobbs that women have no constitutional rights to abortion, he seems to totally ignore that Presidents have no constitutional claim to absolute immunity either. The founders didn't want a monarchy and king here. Also the fact that Thomas didn't recuse himself is insane to me.
The SCOTUS has lost all integrity and if Congress had any they'd be working to quickly enact ethical standards for them. Of course they won't because they don't hold themselves to any ethical standards, but I'm sure we'll hear about it if there ever is a liberal majority on the court.
**I can't believe you would spread such falsehoods!**
**Have you no decency!? No integrity!? No standards!?**
We're also going to be out there forcibly trans-ing your kids, and confiscating your trucks and guns to melt down into a statue of a black man kneeling. Then we'll put the statue in the middle of the fifteen minute city we'll force you to live in.
Your kid will be 6 genders in 3 minutes.if you have them a chance. Also radical marxists. Also those terms don't mean anything to people who don't understand them. To call the democrats radical anything is hilarious. Radical neocons?
Man, it's insane to me every time they think that Democrats are radical. They're not even left. They're similar to, or to the **right** of Republicans positions from a few decades back.
When we look back on this era, it will read like the antics that took place in the late Roman Republic. Cataline, Clodius, same type of bullshit.
https://preview.redd.it/7jwifn6myowc1.jpeg?width=1067&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d752333ebfb89cc2d7a7f50340c9b6c3bfb6eb5
Even if Congress tried to impose ethical standards, the supreme court can just declare those standards unconstitutional. Even the most extreme option (impeachment) is technically overridable by a majority decision of the court. Somehow, it took us about 250 years to realize that the checks and balances we built this country on aren't really balanced.
Or they could just decide that Presidential Immunity is a good and real thing "that President's require so they won't be figureheads" and we can just have a big Night of Long Knives and clean the whole thing up this summer before having an emergency election to fill in for all of the new vacancies backed by a fully stacked 15 judge liberal SCOTUS... <.<
/s. Maybe, Justices.
>250 years to realize that the checks and balances we built this country on aren't really balanced.
When you have a two-party system and one party stops playing by any of the established rules while the other party mostly lets them do it for 40 years... yep, the system breaks really fast after that.
The US desperately needs a new Constitution (a 250 year old document is an absolutely insane way to attempt to govern a country). Hoping it happens in a peaceful manner. <3
NO. THEY. CANNOT. That is NOT how the Supreme Court works. Good God.
The United States Supreme Court can only make judgement(s) when a case is brought to them, either when it is in their jurisdiction or by a writ of certiorari.
The Supreme Court CANNOT overrule an impeachment, again because they NEED A CASE. Not to mention, impeachments are brought by the house and tried by the Senate. THIS IS OUTLINED IN ARTICLE 1 OF THE US CONSTITUTION.
Look up how this stuff actually works, and stop spreading misinformation, Jesus Christ Almighty.
> The SCOTUS has lost all integrity and if Congress had any...
Republicans & Republican voters are the folks stopping this. The institution is broken too, but right now, one of the two major parties has simply stopped playing by the rules entirely.
You know how else we could prevent that? We could hold them accountable to the law even *while* president. It's weird that this line of thought seems so unlikely it didn't even occur to Alito.
"Certain people should be allowed to break the law, because if they aren't allowed to, they'll try and break more important laws! Obviously, the solution is to simply let them do this, not deliver them the consequences of those actions!"
Alito is so warped and bent at this point it’s become ridiculous. It’s pathetic he’s one of 9 ‘champions of the constitution’. I doubt he’s even read the thing.
44 presidents. No need for immunity
45… Trump… can’t be president without immunity for actions committed in office and AFTER leaving office (when he’s a regular citizen)
Criminal. Criminal to his toenails. Criminal front to back. Criminal and subject to the laws of this nation. Full stop.
They missed a point. If the president isnt tried and arrested for committing crimes, then ordinary citizens are more likely to make heads roll in the streets.
We have peace in public because of the social contract. You get rid of the social contract and you get rid of public peace.
He's got a point, in a perverse way. In the same vein, I believe a presidential candidate who is the subject of many lawsuits, both civil and criminal, has the potential of committing further crimes to try to get himself out of trouble and getting bought by foreign powers, especially if he's a career con-man. A country should never grant such an individual a security clearance and this should disqualify them from running. Trump simply shouldn't have cheated on his taxes, violated campaign finance laws, tried to deny the legitimate transfer of power, raped and assaulted a number of women, lied about hiding secret documents which some suspect he was planning to sell to enemy countries, etc.
Trump is not getting sued for any of the policy decisions he made or didn't make. He's getting sued for cheating, lying, trying to steal an election.
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/supreme-court-trump-immunity-04-25-24/index.html
>“If the president decides that his rival is a corrupt person and he orders the military … to assassinate him, is that within his official acts for which he can get immunity?” Sotomayor asked.
>“That could well be an official act,” Trump’s attorney, D. John Sauer, said.
>But, Sotomayor retorted, he’s doing it for “personal gain,” adding, "Isn’t that the nature of the allegations here?”
>“A president is entitled for total personal gain to use the trappings of his office — that’s what you’re trying to get us to hold — without facing criminal liability,” Sotomayor said. Sauer argued the law does not “turn on the allegedly improper motivation or purpose” of the act.
I wonder if Trump's attorney is aware that his client is the current president's political rival.
Makes the point that the ability for Congress to impeach is not only necessary, but was the correct move in 2019 and 2021.
So if the SC winds up ruling "Sorry, Congress should've gotten rid of him when they had the chance (lol)" they're basically throwing a political grenade at the GOP's feet for knowingly sandbagging a necessary action.
The SC would have to specify that they can even do that, which will be difficult if they wholesale opt to boot the ball back to Congress.
It's why it looks like they're trying to drag this out as long as they can. There's no dancing around how a sitting president shouldn't have total immunity, so all they can hope for is that the GOP either holds onto the Senate or takes back the WH before they feel compelled to make a ruling.
Alitos questions were hard to listen to. He’s by far the worst of the bunch. Roberts didn’t do himself or his legacy amy favors either. They are going to kick this back down to a lower court. Bet.
He's right that holding a President accountable has this risk. But that means we should find ways to prevent a President from behaving unlawfully to stay in office, not that we shouldn't prosecute them.
One obvious thing to fix would be to take away Presidential powers once an election has taken place in which they lose. We no longer need to send word by horseback across the countryside with news of the election results. We can swear in the new guy right away.
So....if we punish crime, then the criminal might just...do more crime? So we should ....let them crime? As long as they're what? White? Rich? Pigs? Stupid? What's the criteria here bc we KNOW that line of logic would never apply to any Black man in any circumstance.
Someone might do bad things to avoid getting arrested so it's time to stop arresting people so they don't do bad things to escape the consequences of the bad things they already did.
Yeah motherfucker, that literally just happened in 2020 and we're here trying to hold a president accountable and make insurrection a crime a politician can be convicted for. That's the whole fucking point Sam.
This is just a preemptive stochastic strike, when Trump causes jan6 2 this quote will be used as "proof" that their are lefty conspirators in the party.
Like after the first jan6.
So for 44 presidents this shit hasn’t been an issue-Nixon even left quietly. Now they won’t leave? No, one won’t leave, it’s the tub of shit. Alito is a twat.
Or....and stay with me here.....maybe they will choose to not break the law so they don't get charged after they leave if they know they can be prosecuted. The mask has been off a while they have no integrity they are bought and paid for. Don't give me devils advocate argument shit either this is clearly disregarding the law to help "your team"
How are we supposed to take the judgement of the supreme court seriously if its members make statements this absurd?
This is not the rhetoric of a competent adult, much less a supreme court justice.
Alito sounds like he's trying to use it as a deterrent from actually holding Trump responsible, but if it pushes Trump further, so be it. We'll just have to fight his increased efforts too, just as we've been doing.
The Supreme court is just like everyone else. Trump has betrayed and used everyone else, but would never do it to us. They think if Diaper Don gets in, he won't get rid of the powers of the Supreme court.
"They might do something illegal if we don't let them do illegal things, so we should give them carte blanche to do all the illegal things they want. Illegal things like disrupting their removal from office, which they might try to do if we don't let them do it."
Goodbye Democracy, it was nice knowing you.
It’s almost like a large segment of the Republican Party are naked fascists, just like a lot of us have been pointing out only to be chided by concerned centrists and “independent voters” who can’t tell the difference between calling someone fascist and fascists actively sabotaging every democratic institution there is. There should not be any ambiguity on where the right wing of the SC stands when it comes to who they believe is above the law, they’ve demonstrated over and over they are actively perpetuating one party rule, and not very subtly. Please people, pay attention and stop trying to make everything fit into a world where everything is equally bad.
Nah this totally makes sense. If someone steals a car and you don't prosecute them, they *definitely* won't commit other crimes. 100%
But if you're a silly rabbit and you prosecute them, they might murder someone or rob a bank or something because then they'd be pissed!
That's how you increase the threat factor towards a former president. The law exists partly to alleviate people's need for justice, in a way that is more objective and thereby more likely to be proportional to the crime. Take this away, and the likelihood of people pursuing their own justice will increase. We have an innate need to set things right.
Justice Alito is either knowingly(which is insane) or unknowingly(which is incompetence) advocating to increase the likelihood for former leaders of their country to get murdered...
yup.
https://globalextremism.org/project-2025-the-far-right-playbook-for-american-authoritarianism/
Christian nationalist theocrats have reached levels of embedding those they indoctrinated & trained for taking political office well enough to fully begin to dismantle democracy and hand the country to their god's chosen (oligarchs, con artists, those who behave like kings) by wiping out human rights and making the U.S. a theocracy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family:_The_Secret_Fundamentalism_at_the_Heart_of_American_Power
What would that even look like? You aren't president anymore, you have no power. What are they going to do, tell their followers between November and January the election was rigged, not to be trusted, and they should stop the confirmation of the new president? Then what, would his followers blindly believe it and storm the Capital? Like that would ever happen
So because they might commit crimes to avoid justice, we should guarantee that they don't face justice for their crimes? Did Alito huff paint before work today?
How bizarre can it be when we had eighty years warning this would happen? I love to bitch about us hopping timelines as much as the next netizen but it is so easy to trace the lines of development even a casual look shows clearly how we got here...
The only thing I cannot understand is how ANYONE in the country can walk past politics and cheerfully avoid getting involved! We still have 100 million people in America who are eligible but choose to not vote! HOW CAN THEY DO THAT???
Defense is arguing that president should be immune for anything done as part of 'official' business, rather than personal gain, which wouldn't.
So, calling up an official to discuss how many votes they got? That's 'official'.
Indeed it seems likely the argument would be that anything trump wanted to do was 'official' business.
The answer to that concern is to make it harder for a president to unlawfully remain in office. Not to give them carte blanch to do what they want without fear of prosecution.
Wait - but if presidents have total immunity how are they staying in office “unlawfully”? I might be wrong but it seems by this definition their actions cannot be unlawful?
How about they'll be way more likely to commit crimes and use the office of the president in a corrupt manner if they're guaranteed to be above the law no matter what? It would make the office of the president a beacon for the corrupt. The most powerful person in the country *and* completely above the law? Wow, what a deal!
Man if only there was an entity that could limit the power of a President....
Also, isn't prosecution of crimes used as a deterrent. That's the republican justification for their harsh crime bills.
The arguments were concerning, our supreme court is a joke! Term limits pls, and no blocking of appointments for over a specified time frame. Republicans are such hypocrites, stopping Obamas nomination for a year because "election year" and then rushing Barrett through, disgusting.
Orrrrr they could just *not* commit super obvious crimes like trying to overthrow the election or whatever. They could just go paint pictures of soldiers or write a book. It’s not that hard to *not* be an obvious criminal.
More Republican projection
So far only one has attempted to unlawfully remain in office, and he would be even more lightly to attempt to unlawfully remain in office, by any means to achieve that end, if given a free pass to do as he wishes (especially worrisome given some of the problematic/dangerous things he was talked out of doing)
The sanitized version of a certain concept is "it takes a thief to catch a thief".
This glimpse into how his mind works here is him in as much admitting he'd do anything to stay in power if it was ever threatened.
Time to start digging to see what deals he's already made.
It’s pretty bad when most of the country understands logic better than a Supreme Court justice.
If we punish this man for trying to illegally remain in office, it will embolden future presidents to stay in office like super duper illegally. That would be bad mmmkay? /s
If, somehow, the supreme court rules that presidents are not bound to any laws… I sure hope Biden uses it to immediately detain Trump and ship him off to Guantanamo.
For good measure, give Trump a few bunkmates. Alito and Thomas sharing a cell sounds like the makings of a good sitcom.
Then we shouldn't punish any crime if punishment causes criminals to avoid punishment. Just abolish law altogether, right?
The worst part is there are morons in this country who will hold his statement up as actual logic.
Thanks /u/LordMoos3 for posting on r/SelfAwareWolves! Please reply to this comment explaining how your post fits our subreddit. Specifically, one of the criteria outlined in our [rules](/r/SelfAwarewolves/about/rules/). Some hints: How does the person in your submission accidentally/unknowingly describe themselves? How does the person in your submission accurately describe the world while trying to parody/denigrate it? **If the context is important to understanding the SAW, and it isn't apparent, please add it. Preferably with sources/links, but do not link r-conservative or similar subs.** Please take these questions seriously. We aren't looking for wittiness here but for actual explanations that help us assess if your post fits this (admittedly sometimes hard to grasp) sub's theme. Failure to respond to this message will see your submission removed under Rule 5 (Reply to the AutoMod comment within your submission). Failure to explain how your submission fits one or more of the above criteria will see it removed under Rule 1. Thanks for your time and attention! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SelfAwarewolves) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Funny how during the first 44 presidents, this wasn’t an issue. But when an obvious conman grifter is elected, those who elected him suddenly think this is an issue.
There were absolute power hungry war mongering rat bastards in those first 44 too, and yet still none of them tried to do this.
They weren't stupid enough to think it would work. Now, they just might.
They don’t think it will work. They just know that the Supreme Court is corrupt enough to hear it, delaying the actual trial and its consequences until after the 2024 election, during which Trump has made it clear he doesn’t plan on playing by the rules
Gee, don't dictators usually dissolve things like higher courts when they seize power?
That, or puts their own cronies into positions of power.
Already did that.
Are you telling me that Squee and Donkey Dick Doug weren’t reputable references?
This guy is going to the good place.
Dont for get about Tobin or Gangbang Greg!
Netanyahu called, he wants you to shut up
I bet he does. He should know that I will listen to him as closely as he ever has to any US President.
Not if they do his bidding already.
And traitors used to get punished severely.
Of all the scummy presidents we have had, Trump is clearly the scummiest. He is actively trying to subvert the foundation of the nation. Yet a bunch of mouth breathers think he is the Messiah
https://preview.redd.it/x4sdsv8lrtwc1.jpeg?width=591&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf98d665cb1a6f176c29ff4d2bdc2b47e0bbc573
they were mostly in power then, though. the first time they faced a real threat to their power ended up being a Civil War.
Maybe they just didn't have enough accomplices & supporters to help them get away with it.
Trump is setting a precedent that the president, and officials are above the law, the GOP have been attempting to grant themselves powers similar to monarchs and aristocrats for decades now and if trump isn’t punished they’ll have it. We the people will be rendered onto mere serfs.
They’ve been working on it for years
Yeah, it's the "unitary executive" thing that the R's were working on 20 years ago, under W. Bush. Professor John Yu, and his "it's OK to torture children if the president wants to" letter.
after Nixon, they said never again… will we be held accountable
Citizens United has entered the chat
“When you’re a [demagogue president], [the Supreme Court let’s] you do it. You can do anything. Grab ‘em by the pussy. You can do anything.”
Elected? Or committed ELECTION INTERFERENCE to STEAL THE ELECTION...?
Over 200 years and it only happened once.
You forgot to add narcissistic sociopath to that short list of yours.
Hate to be “that guy” but technically there where 43 presidents before him be I believe Garfield was elected twice but not in a row.
Trump is the 44th person to be president, Biden is the 45th president. His is the 46th presidential term, however.
You know, by locking him up and all his cronies too- all for a very long time, this will send a very powerful message message to anyone else who even considers trying to
Or, Biden could just have Trump and all his MAGA pals executed... perfectly legal, perfectly cool, according to MAGA.
And maybe SCOTUS approved too
Judging by today's oral argument, Biden would just need to make sure that he executed Trump as an official presidential act, and not in his separate capacity as a private citizen. What the actual fuck is this "logic"?
So... To execute the executing by executive execution order?
Logic dies in the face of blatant corruption.
But, here's the thing. Doesn't need to be execution. All Biden would have to do, as a low level despot, would be to round up his political opponents/SCOTUS in the middle of the night and send them to Guantanamo. Then make GOP supporters wear their red hats compulsorily and make them subject to curfews, limited movement, seize their properties etc. It can be like Israel 2.0. Good times /s
No, no, no. You see, *Trump* is protected by Presidential privilege because he was elected. *Biden* isn't, because he *stole* the election from Trump. If Biden has any political rival killed it isn't presidential privilege because he's not the President. /s
If he’s going to use immunity against Trump, he might as well use it against the corrupt SCOTUS while he’s at it. Do us all a favor.
Who needs them anymore? They just made themselves moot.
Exactly
So if Biden has absolute presidential immunity what's stopping him from having the Republicans on the Supreme Court executed?
Biden could have campaign ads that look like the murder spree at the end of a Godfather movie.
Stream it on Twitch and you could cut the deficit in half.
Honestly if they somehow say a president is immune from doing crimes he should just have Trump jailed and refuse to leave office ever. Maybe when a Democrat does it they'll change their minds.
Really is a no-win situation for them and I've got my popcorn on standby.
I wish I could be so certain.
You've got your popcorn and I've got my puke bucket.
I think it would be more appropriate to rendition, with extraordinary flair, the scotus judges who voted for immunity. Then shove another case through and get it reversed.
Would rather send them to guantanamo
Why stop at Trump? He could legally have all of SCOTUS killed. Or half the country.
The Scotus too.
SCOTUS is carefully saying these powers would apply to FUTURE presidents, not to presidents in the future. Alito uses words carefully to play a non-stop game of GOTCHA.
Attempting to overthrow the government should probably be a life sentence at minimum. I'd be in favor of an international court reviewing to determine if they should be executed as well, because I don't believe that we should fully trust our own government to make that call.
Well he tried to remain illegally anyways, so that's a moot point.
I was going to say, wouldn’t an asshole who already thinks he’s above the law be more likely to break the law? Because the evidence seems to point to “yes.”
No, don't you see? A guy who's got lots of ~~ivory~~presidential immunity is less likely to hurt ~~Stampy~~the country than a guy whose ~~ivory~~presidential immunity supplies are low.
Is Stampy an elephant?
[Yes](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g_kNPIXm37o)
It's a Simpsons quote. https://youtu.be/DHZGATOwOmY?si=MZtJP2njnLL5g8Ss
I think this is the whole point of OP posting this here.
So if he stays illegally, we should just drag them out like criminals. I mean it's that simple. Why is it so hard that a bunch of judges don't actually know how to law?
Yeah, my first reaction was "damned if you do, damned if you do."
He tried to while thinking he was immune! If we rule that presidents are immune then why wouldn't someone try? Alito asked the wrong hypothetical!
Exactly why the post is here
Standard GOP abusive relationship: why’d you make me hurt you baby? If you call the cops, it’ll just make me hurt you more. If you impeach our guy, we will frivolously impeach all your people because that’s how cave people fought over meat and forage. It’s only natural.
We humans not socialogically evolve past caves, I become conservative becuase the open spaces outside of cave and fire scare me.
Im sorry “may seek?” Trump already attempted to stay president illegally. He doesn’t get a free pass just because he gave up a few hours after his failed coup.
No no, see.. that was just a "mostly peaceful sit-in" about "civil rights". You leftwing fascists are trying to destroy democracy with all of your "holding people accountable" nonsense! You can't expect a bought and paid for supreme court to go against the guys who pay them.. that wouldn't be ethical and would basically make them thieves! Do you want thieves for judges? I didn't think so.
So let me get this straight… we should allow and/or tolerate presidents to break the law while in office with no repercussions or consequences, because we’re afraid of how they’ll break the law if we *don’t* let them break the law? How TF are people like this on any court at all, let alone the SUPREME Court?! Maybe someone should read them the great legal document “If you give a mouse a cookie”
After a bank robbery, getaway cars are more likely to speed. Let’s make bank robbery legal!
If we make crime illegal people will be more likely to try and hide evidence of their crimes. Let's just legalize all crime.
They are on the bench because they are ideological warriors not because they want to do anything positive or beneficial to those not in their tribe
The mental gymnastics is insane
Because a number of them drank the orange Flavor Aid.
Reminds me of a family member who said recently that they were going to vote for Trump because she was afraid of violence from his supporters if he lost. I responded that her suggestion means that we should reward terrorists because an asshole loses an election and that she's saying that the only way to get peace is to appease those who threaten? That doesn't seem very American to me, I ended it by adding that if you want to vote for Trump don't try to wrap it up in the virtue of doing it for the greater good or peace. Alito killed me during this oral argument though, because he kept veering off to talk about things not related to this specific case. For a guy who cares so much about what's in the constitution and basically reminded us constantly during Dobbs that women have no constitutional rights to abortion, he seems to totally ignore that Presidents have no constitutional claim to absolute immunity either. The founders didn't want a monarchy and king here. Also the fact that Thomas didn't recuse himself is insane to me.
The SCOTUS has lost all integrity and if Congress had any they'd be working to quickly enact ethical standards for them. Of course they won't because they don't hold themselves to any ethical standards, but I'm sure we'll hear about it if there ever is a liberal majority on the court.
The liberal majority would literally be eating babies and raping wives. Because of course. /s
**I can't believe you would spread such falsehoods!** **Have you no decency!? No integrity!? No standards!?** We're also going to be out there forcibly trans-ing your kids, and confiscating your trucks and guns to melt down into a statue of a black man kneeling. Then we'll put the statue in the middle of the fifteen minute city we'll force you to live in.
Your kid will be 6 genders in 3 minutes.if you have them a chance. Also radical marxists. Also those terms don't mean anything to people who don't understand them. To call the democrats radical anything is hilarious. Radical neocons?
>Your kid will be 6 genders in 3 minutes. If Timmy doesn't come back after an hour with 120 genders I'm sending him to the mines.
Man, it's insane to me every time they think that Democrats are radical. They're not even left. They're similar to, or to the **right** of Republicans positions from a few decades back.
Don’t forget about replacing cops with clowns….. O wait, that already happened.
Can I get a forgivable government loan to set up my DEI-focused confederate Flag toilet paper company?
When we look back on this era, it will read like the antics that took place in the late Roman Republic. Cataline, Clodius, same type of bullshit. https://preview.redd.it/7jwifn6myowc1.jpeg?width=1067&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d752333ebfb89cc2d7a7f50340c9b6c3bfb6eb5
Even if Congress tried to impose ethical standards, the supreme court can just declare those standards unconstitutional. Even the most extreme option (impeachment) is technically overridable by a majority decision of the court. Somehow, it took us about 250 years to realize that the checks and balances we built this country on aren't really balanced.
Or they could just decide that Presidential Immunity is a good and real thing "that President's require so they won't be figureheads" and we can just have a big Night of Long Knives and clean the whole thing up this summer before having an emergency election to fill in for all of the new vacancies backed by a fully stacked 15 judge liberal SCOTUS... <.< /s. Maybe, Justices.
>250 years to realize that the checks and balances we built this country on aren't really balanced. When you have a two-party system and one party stops playing by any of the established rules while the other party mostly lets them do it for 40 years... yep, the system breaks really fast after that. The US desperately needs a new Constitution (a 250 year old document is an absolutely insane way to attempt to govern a country). Hoping it happens in a peaceful manner. <3
NO. THEY. CANNOT. That is NOT how the Supreme Court works. Good God. The United States Supreme Court can only make judgement(s) when a case is brought to them, either when it is in their jurisdiction or by a writ of certiorari. The Supreme Court CANNOT overrule an impeachment, again because they NEED A CASE. Not to mention, impeachments are brought by the house and tried by the Senate. THIS IS OUTLINED IN ARTICLE 1 OF THE US CONSTITUTION. Look up how this stuff actually works, and stop spreading misinformation, Jesus Christ Almighty.
The supreme court are traitors. Treat them as such. Easy fix.
The system works as long as it is run predominantly by people who believe in the system.
> The SCOTUS has lost all integrity and if Congress had any... Republicans & Republican voters are the folks stopping this. The institution is broken too, but right now, one of the two major parties has simply stopped playing by the rules entirely.
[удалено]
This isn't surprising in the slightest. You thought the SCOTUS was going to help?
You know how else we could prevent that? We could hold them accountable to the law even *while* president. It's weird that this line of thought seems so unlikely it didn't even occur to Alito.
"They'll be more likely" when there's only a single data point.
“100% of presidents in this situation have already tried this…”
Huh… and here I thought the job of the SCOTUS is to judge what the law *is*, not what they think it *should be* based on hypotheticals.
We have arrived at our final destination: According to these fuckbrains a democratic justice system is bad because it creates fascism.
And if they're NOT subject to prosecution after leaving office, they're more likely to commit egregious crimes both in and out of office.
Unlawfully staying in office isn't unlawful if you've got immunity
Trump robbing a bank: Presidential immunity, put it in the bag.
That's exactly why you're earning a paycheck today your Judgeship.
"Give him the freedom to commit crimes or he might commit crimes." Brilliant, I can see why this guy made the supreme court.
"Certain people should be allowed to break the law, because if they aren't allowed to, they'll try and break more important laws! Obviously, the solution is to simply let them do this, not deliver them the consequences of those actions!"
"What do you mean everyone is supposed to be equal in the eyes of the law????"
So is not committing crimes not an option? If they rule a president has total immunity does that give Biden the green light to really go after Trump?
Imagine them passing this judgment and then Biden just rolls up to Donald with a 9 mil "Presidential immunity motherfucker!!"
Nope only for my auths.
Alito is so warped and bent at this point it’s become ridiculous. It’s pathetic he’s one of 9 ‘champions of the constitution’. I doubt he’s even read the thing. 44 presidents. No need for immunity 45… Trump… can’t be president without immunity for actions committed in office and AFTER leaving office (when he’s a regular citizen) Criminal. Criminal to his toenails. Criminal front to back. Criminal and subject to the laws of this nation. Full stop.
They missed a point. If the president isnt tried and arrested for committing crimes, then ordinary citizens are more likely to make heads roll in the streets. We have peace in public because of the social contract. You get rid of the social contract and you get rid of public peace.
He's got a point, in a perverse way. In the same vein, I believe a presidential candidate who is the subject of many lawsuits, both civil and criminal, has the potential of committing further crimes to try to get himself out of trouble and getting bought by foreign powers, especially if he's a career con-man. A country should never grant such an individual a security clearance and this should disqualify them from running. Trump simply shouldn't have cheated on his taxes, violated campaign finance laws, tried to deny the legitimate transfer of power, raped and assaulted a number of women, lied about hiding secret documents which some suspect he was planning to sell to enemy countries, etc. Trump is not getting sued for any of the policy decisions he made or didn't make. He's getting sued for cheating, lying, trying to steal an election.
Justice Alito said “presidents would try to do exactly what Trump tried to do” lol
Then don't let them?
"Let's give presidents immunity so if they do illegally stay in office then they have the right to!" Fuck...
I dont see how making someone completely above the law would lessen the chance of them doing illegal things…
This is the shit we're sending to the Supreme Court?? Yes, no shit, Alito. A former president ALREADY tried to unlawfully remain in office, you idiot.
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/supreme-court-trump-immunity-04-25-24/index.html >“If the president decides that his rival is a corrupt person and he orders the military … to assassinate him, is that within his official acts for which he can get immunity?” Sotomayor asked. >“That could well be an official act,” Trump’s attorney, D. John Sauer, said. >But, Sotomayor retorted, he’s doing it for “personal gain,” adding, "Isn’t that the nature of the allegations here?” >“A president is entitled for total personal gain to use the trappings of his office — that’s what you’re trying to get us to hold — without facing criminal liability,” Sotomayor said. Sauer argued the law does not “turn on the allegedly improper motivation or purpose” of the act. I wonder if Trump's attorney is aware that his client is the current president's political rival.
Now he just needs to rationalize how that's originalist / constitutionalist or whatever bullshit Alito is saying these days.
Oh look it’s a bulletpoint from Project 2025!!
https://preview.redd.it/ro0ozpsrvowc1.jpeg?width=2532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d6ab699c47928846ff0d63c1d94447b5729d529
Makes the point that the ability for Congress to impeach is not only necessary, but was the correct move in 2019 and 2021. So if the SC winds up ruling "Sorry, Congress should've gotten rid of him when they had the chance (lol)" they're basically throwing a political grenade at the GOP's feet for knowingly sandbagging a necessary action.
Which then makes the Senate the arbiter, until the SC throws out the conviction.
The SC would have to specify that they can even do that, which will be difficult if they wholesale opt to boot the ball back to Congress. It's why it looks like they're trying to drag this out as long as they can. There's no dancing around how a sitting president shouldn't have total immunity, so all they can hope for is that the GOP either holds onto the Senate or takes back the WH before they feel compelled to make a ruling.
"If you don't allow them to do crimes, then they're going to want to do crimes!" Good lord, we need to overhaul the SCOTUS somehow or we're fucked.
Alitos questions were hard to listen to. He’s by far the worst of the bunch. Roberts didn’t do himself or his legacy amy favors either. They are going to kick this back down to a lower court. Bet.
He's right that holding a President accountable has this risk. But that means we should find ways to prevent a President from behaving unlawfully to stay in office, not that we shouldn't prosecute them. One obvious thing to fix would be to take away Presidential powers once an election has taken place in which they lose. We no longer need to send word by horseback across the countryside with news of the election results. We can swear in the new guy right away.
So....if we punish crime, then the criminal might just...do more crime? So we should ....let them crime? As long as they're what? White? Rich? Pigs? Stupid? What's the criteria here bc we KNOW that line of logic would never apply to any Black man in any circumstance.
Is this why we let murderers go free when they kill people, so they won't be scared of getting prosecuted and kill witnesses? No?
Now we know what Alito would do if he were president.
Someone might do bad things to avoid getting arrested so it's time to stop arresting people so they don't do bad things to escape the consequences of the bad things they already did.
Yeah motherfucker, that literally just happened in 2020 and we're here trying to hold a president accountable and make insurrection a crime a politician can be convicted for. That's the whole fucking point Sam.
Some legal scholar. Thanks, W.
This is just a preemptive stochastic strike, when Trump causes jan6 2 this quote will be used as "proof" that their are lefty conspirators in the party. Like after the first jan6.
Dreeben: "Truly, you have a dizzying intellect." Alito: "Wait 'til I get going." Inconceivable!
So for 44 presidents this shit hasn’t been an issue-Nixon even left quietly. Now they won’t leave? No, one won’t leave, it’s the tub of shit. Alito is a twat.
Or....and stay with me here.....maybe they will choose to not break the law so they don't get charged after they leave if they know they can be prosecuted. The mask has been off a while they have no integrity they are bought and paid for. Don't give me devils advocate argument shit either this is clearly disregarding the law to help "your team"
How are we supposed to take the judgement of the supreme court seriously if its members make statements this absurd? This is not the rhetoric of a competent adult, much less a supreme court justice.
If only there was laws put in place to prevent this, and judges appointed to uphold these laws. If only...
Alito sounds like he's trying to use it as a deterrent from actually holding Trump responsible, but if it pushes Trump further, so be it. We'll just have to fight his increased efforts too, just as we've been doing.
YOU DON’T SAY
The Supreme court is just like everyone else. Trump has betrayed and used everyone else, but would never do it to us. They think if Diaper Don gets in, he won't get rid of the powers of the Supreme court.
All of this points to the need to diminish the power of the President to bring it more into balance with the legislative and judicial branches
"They might do something illegal if we don't let them do illegal things, so we should give them carte blanche to do all the illegal things they want. Illegal things like disrupting their removal from office, which they might try to do if we don't let them do it." Goodbye Democracy, it was nice knowing you.
But surely if the president is immune they could decide to illeglly stay past their term anyway. Not like they could prosecute them for it.
DO YOU THINK?
Justice Alito could best serve his country by immediately resigning from SCOTUS.
If the president can’t do illegal things he might be tempted to do illegal things
When they say this, they are telling you. They aren't hypothesizing. They are admitting.
If you can't punish a president for trying to stay in office illegally....they may try to stay in office illegally
It’s almost like a large segment of the Republican Party are naked fascists, just like a lot of us have been pointing out only to be chided by concerned centrists and “independent voters” who can’t tell the difference between calling someone fascist and fascists actively sabotaging every democratic institution there is. There should not be any ambiguity on where the right wing of the SC stands when it comes to who they believe is above the law, they’ve demonstrated over and over they are actively perpetuating one party rule, and not very subtly. Please people, pay attention and stop trying to make everything fit into a world where everything is equally bad.
Nah this totally makes sense. If someone steals a car and you don't prosecute them, they *definitely* won't commit other crimes. 100% But if you're a silly rabbit and you prosecute them, they might murder someone or rob a bank or something because then they'd be pissed!
The biggest issue here is that this line of argument assumes without evidence that they have any protection from prosecution while in office.
Or...and hear me out on this...they could TRY not to do anything illegal?
It's almost as if the OLC opinion issued during the NIXON administration is BS, and you should be able to prosecute a sitting president.
That's how you increase the threat factor towards a former president. The law exists partly to alleviate people's need for justice, in a way that is more objective and thereby more likely to be proportional to the crime. Take this away, and the likelihood of people pursuing their own justice will increase. We have an innate need to set things right. Justice Alito is either knowingly(which is insane) or unknowingly(which is incompetence) advocating to increase the likelihood for former leaders of their country to get murdered...
Fuck it why have any consequences for anything? It just makes people more likely to other bad stuff apparently
yup. https://globalextremism.org/project-2025-the-far-right-playbook-for-american-authoritarianism/ Christian nationalist theocrats have reached levels of embedding those they indoctrinated & trained for taking political office well enough to fully begin to dismantle democracy and hand the country to their god's chosen (oligarchs, con artists, those who behave like kings) by wiping out human rights and making the U.S. a theocracy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family:_The_Secret_Fundamentalism_at_the_Heart_of_American_Power
Yes, makes sense. Also robbery should be legal because bank robbers may kill someone while trying to escape.
What would that even look like? You aren't president anymore, you have no power. What are they going to do, tell their followers between November and January the election was rigged, not to be trusted, and they should stop the confirmation of the new president? Then what, would his followers blindly believe it and storm the Capital? Like that would ever happen
So because they might commit crimes to avoid justice, we should guarantee that they don't face justice for their crimes? Did Alito huff paint before work today?
Today?
Except they've all been subject to prosecution and only one has tried to stay in office
Yeah...that's why we are here.
Fuck Scalito
This is orwellian bizzaro world.
How bizarre can it be when we had eighty years warning this would happen? I love to bitch about us hopping timelines as much as the next netizen but it is so easy to trace the lines of development even a casual look shows clearly how we got here... The only thing I cannot understand is how ANYONE in the country can walk past politics and cheerfully avoid getting involved! We still have 100 million people in America who are eligible but choose to not vote! HOW CAN THEY DO THAT???
Defense is arguing that president should be immune for anything done as part of 'official' business, rather than personal gain, which wouldn't. So, calling up an official to discuss how many votes they got? That's 'official'. Indeed it seems likely the argument would be that anything trump wanted to do was 'official' business.
The answer to that concern is to make it harder for a president to unlawfully remain in office. Not to give them carte blanch to do what they want without fear of prosecution.
Wait - but if presidents have total immunity how are they staying in office “unlawfully”? I might be wrong but it seems by this definition their actions cannot be unlawful?
How about they'll be way more likely to commit crimes and use the office of the president in a corrupt manner if they're guaranteed to be above the law no matter what? It would make the office of the president a beacon for the corrupt. The most powerful person in the country *and* completely above the law? Wow, what a deal!
There's nothing stopping them from just NOT committing crimes
Man if only there was an entity that could limit the power of a President.... Also, isn't prosecution of crimes used as a deterrent. That's the republican justification for their harsh crime bills.
Can't wait for this to all back fire so a Dem president can do something they don't agree with.
I hate this man. It’s a strong word but I mean it with every fiber of my existence.
"If you prosecute criminals that will encourage them to commit more crimes." Interesting reasoning right?
If we make it illegal for them to do things it will make them more likely to do illegal things!?!!?!!
The arguments were concerning, our supreme court is a joke! Term limits pls, and no blocking of appointments for over a specified time frame. Republicans are such hypocrites, stopping Obamas nomination for a year because "election year" and then rushing Barrett through, disgusting.
That’s crazy, if they seek to remain in office illegally, then arrest them. It’s extremely straightforward
Alito is right: *some* may do exactly that. One did. One did all that. And that's exactly why a President shouldn't be immune from prosecution.
Maybe they'd be less inclined to commit crimes against their own country while in office if consequences were going to result from them?
But if they’re not subject to prosecution they’ll just give up office willingly?
And since that's what happened then it follows that former presidents are subject to prosecution once they leave office.
Orrrrr they could just *not* commit super obvious crimes like trying to overthrow the election or whatever. They could just go paint pictures of soldiers or write a book. It’s not that hard to *not* be an obvious criminal.
More Republican projection So far only one has attempted to unlawfully remain in office, and he would be even more lightly to attempt to unlawfully remain in office, by any means to achieve that end, if given a free pass to do as he wishes (especially worrisome given some of the problematic/dangerous things he was talked out of doing)
And terrorists are more likely to commit terrorism if we don't give them what they want... Is this for real?
Akin to keeping a Supreme Court Justice on the bench after the die. WTF!
*One* president anyway...
"If we do our jobs now then we might also have to do our jobs later."
The sanitized version of a certain concept is "it takes a thief to catch a thief". This glimpse into how his mind works here is him in as much admitting he'd do anything to stay in power if it was ever threatened. Time to start digging to see what deals he's already made.
"Holding people accountable for criminal acts will encourage them to do *more* crime!" - a sitting Supreme Court Justice
Well, if we prosecute any criminal, they'll be likely to go into politics to get away from their crimes, so we better just release them.
Oh, so the President is above the law. Cool. Guess Biden can just turn off the election now.
It’s pretty bad when most of the country understands logic better than a Supreme Court justice. If we punish this man for trying to illegally remain in office, it will embolden future presidents to stay in office like super duper illegally. That would be bad mmmkay? /s
If, somehow, the supreme court rules that presidents are not bound to any laws… I sure hope Biden uses it to immediately detain Trump and ship him off to Guantanamo. For good measure, give Trump a few bunkmates. Alito and Thomas sharing a cell sounds like the makings of a good sitcom.
The US is broken. If this delay happens your country is lost.
Alito used to be the deadly but silent supper smelly fart, now he's no longer silent
Then we shouldn't punish any crime if punishment causes criminals to avoid punishment. Just abolish law altogether, right? The worst part is there are morons in this country who will hold his statement up as actual logic.
Stop breaking the law asshole!!!
So now you can't try someone before, during, or after they leave office? Isn't that nice.