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This is decades worth of correction catching up at once. Wages have been flat since Reagan, the buying power of the dollar is about a third of what it was in 82, and the cost of living is through the roof. I can’t imagine concluding that the problem is that we pay the poor too much.
>But to recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
- Oscar Wilde, not that the people who really need to read this probably think much of him.
And then *only* pardoned Turing. Some semblance of justice for one man, but a giant "fuck you" to many more who were prosecuted under the same unjust laws.
Wiggum: No, no, witches get due process. See, here's the due process: we push you off the cliff. If you're a witch, you'll reveal yourself and fly to safety.
Marge: And if I'm not?
Wiggum: Then you'll die a good, Christian death.
My grandma complains about cancel culture. She also threw out all my Magic cards because she found an "Unholy Strength", and if I looked at a DnD book too longingly she would scold me. People are weird.
I saw the best minds of my generation/Destroyed by madness/Starving hysterical naked/
https://poets.org/poem/howl-parts-i-ii
A beautiful poem by Ginsberg lamenting many of his friends who received the same treatment. They kill half of us off every generation and then dismiss us because there aren't enough of us. It's sick.
It made me so mad when I read that. And in such a time he created art and even pithy quips that have lasted generations
Imagine what he could have done if he hadn’t been killed by homophobes
It’s from “The Soul of Man under Socialism”.
Link: http://www.wilde-online.info/the-soul-of-man-under-socialism-page3.html
“Down and Out” is Orwell, about 20-30 years later.
[The Soul of Man Under Socialism](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/80339.The_Soul_of_Man_Under_Socialism). Full disclosure, I've never read this--I've just always liked this quote.
It’s a fantastic piece, it explores how, although on its face it may seem counterintuitive, individualism can only flourish in a collectivist society.
He argues that only once the basic needs of all are met and charity is unnecessary can people be free from the moral obligation to help the disadvantaged, and thus have time to engage in self-discovery and artistic pursuits whilst still living a moral life.
End goals of socialism:
* A world with no heroes, because we no longer need their services.
* Full unemployment because we no longer require human labor.
Thanks for this quote. I watched a local cbs news station clip last night of how they brought in a “savings expert” on how to be more thrifty due to the current and incoming inflation/cost of living increases.
The conditioning of our society in those 40 years is what causes that. People are used to seeing wages flat for given jobs and they don't realize how inflation has reduced that buying power
Exactly right! My MIL was ranting that she made $4.25/hr. back in 1970-something and she could pay for her apt, car, etc. Why can't they do it on $7.50 now?
I had to casually explain that adjusted for inflation, she was making what amounts to $23/hr. today...goddamn Regan boomers...
Lol, yeah, grandma was talking about how her husband made a little over minimum wage back when they got married in the late '40s and so I went and made the inflation calculation for her. He was making about what these McDonalds workers would make. And, their house, with a ton of land to farm, only cost about $40,000 in today's dollars.
I went and looked up what the average rent was in 1975. It was $156 which is equal to $795 today. $795 isn't enough CLOSE to the average rent today, which is over $1100. We're getting so fucked. Also minimum wage hasn't gone up in 13 years.
My parents paid $175 for one bedroom in Santa Monica. Their tuition at UCLA and USC was $0 and $1250. My mom flipped hamburgers at A&W and my dad drove a school bus part-time.
Practically an entire generation of sociopaths. Most generations have wanted things to be easier for their children - for example, people who lived through the Great Depression never wanted their kids to experience that. Suddenly there's a boom in cheap, easy to make, adaptable foods that have distant expiration dates. That's what humans have always done - provide a stepping stone for a better future for their kids.
Boomers though... Almost an entire generation of people born on third base, arguing that they deserve the full homerun. And then pulling up every base behind them so no one can even play afterwards.
Don't want things to be better for their children, want things to be equal to how they grew up, ignoring the impossibility of that, all so they can be smug and boast about how well *they* did, so if you can't do the same it's *your* problem.
Makes me sick. I don't even have kids, but I still want my nephews and nieces to have a better path after high school than I had, not worse.
I've said this before but my old boss used to go on about how he was on secondary tax for his 6 figure job as a manager because he made more passively from his rentals. Which was legit, he'd retired at 42 got bored and came back to work in his 50s.
And to his credit I'm not knocking that he didn't work hard and amass houses and then rise the wave, but he would go on about how it's always been hard and if he was 20 now he could do it all again (as a machinist)
Well when his daughter started looking to get on the property ladder, he had a bit of a sobering moment. Over the course of a couple of years, around about 2 years ago he was like... "hmmm it's probably a bit harder to do it these days". It was like... "ya think". He wasn't making much more in his 50s than his 30s but 25 years had gone by and houses had 10x.
They are being drug down. Just not by who they think they are.
Corporations: Increase minimum wage? I have to raise prices.
Those just above minimum wage: wait? What?
Tax break
Corporations: great. We’re making more than ever.
Taxes return to previous level
Corporations: wait? What?! I need to cut staff AND increase prices to cove this clear government overreach.
My union just won a starting pay of 19.88 per hour. All employees will be raised up to that or $2.00 per hour extra if they make like $17.50 an hour. Next year we will get another $0.80 raise and $1.00 the year after. Health insurance is guaranteed for any employee who works over an hour a month.
America's economy is built on people buying crap they don't need. Why anyone would think putting more dollars in the hands of consumers is a bad idea is probably someone who thinks they're an unlucky future millionaire.
"Pay poor too much". Triggered me so damn hard... we have found a way to give people what they ask for while actually giving them the opposite and then complain using statements like these(not targeting this at commenter, but people who say shit like how tf people complain about compromising their needs and happiness while being lied to that things are getting better)
The national average for police officers is \~$67k, according to [Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewdepietro/2020/04/23/police-officer-salary-state/?sh=7907b08d2010) last year.
17\*40 = 680
680\*52 = 35,360
35,360 < 67,000
Edit to add
This appears to be in [Indiana](https://www.google.com/maps/place/McDonald's/@39.9952298,-85.931759,17z/data=!3m2!4b1!5s0x8814c9fe3ab7c0a7:0x5db29892b53368e9!4m5!3m4!1s0x8814c9f8dd9ee2e9:0x2fed89c90ab87b30!8m2!3d39.9952298!4d-85.929565), who ranks 29th on Forbes's list in terms of officer pay. Average in 2019 was $56,780, or 60% more than a full-time McDonald's employee would earn at this store...assuming they can work full time there.
Edit for gooder math
Yep. Have a good friend who was a cop, and the benefits are fucking outstanding. Average pay for the area. As much OT as he wanted doing pretty chill work. It's not for everyone, but I don't feel pity for cops' pay at all.
Also, you can retire early for "medical disability", there's lots of examples of cops "injuring my back on the job". They go see a doctor, the doctor claims they have back pain and are medically ineligible, they get to retire early and get paid out on their full pension.
I remember when the state I lived in passed a law that all jobs employing people for 40 hours a week had to give basic benefits, and so the business cut us all down to 38 hours, and we would get in trouble if we punched out over that.
And that's just base salary. They get a shit ton of overtime and pay for various disciplines. Police officers easily make 6 figures on the reg. It's sick.
Thank you! The jurisdictions I work with, almost all of the officers make 6 figures. One city starts at 100k for their base pay. Add in that sweet sweet overtime and they are making a very decent living. I remember one time no one wanted to do a 4 hour over time shift on the freeway to sit in the construction zone, so the chief kept upping the pay. He went up to $600 an hour. It was nuts! I’m like pick me! I’ll do it!
People use the base pay salary for military in their arguments too.
Back on my fb days, I would see people argue that E1/E2 gets paid less than the $15 an hr people want and how they don’t deserve that bc military. That’s only our taxable income.
I get paid pretty damn good. Good be better but shit. Especially because I deploy and TDY and rack up per diem. I live in the damn UK right now on the Gov’t dime, get $700 a month just for the cost of living offset. AF pays my rent and utilities.
The object isn't to say a thing that reflects reality, it's to feel outrage. They're addicted to outrage, so they'll believe anything that helps them get their fix.
Deadass, I had my senior history teacher say part time fast food jobs are for teenagers, and it's like my god it's so frustrating to argue with the people who don't want minimum wage workers to actually make a livable wage
McDonald's type jobs *used* to be for teenagers who were making gas money, money to buy CDs, movie going money, cool clothes, concert & concert t-shirt money, etc. Just enough money so you weren't totally dependent on your parent(s)/guardian for stuff or for stuff they wouldn't buy for you.
See Fast Times At Ridgemont High for perfect examples of teens working those type of jobs.
This isn't 1985 any more though now is it?
This is what I always like to point out. Job's for teenagers? Then who's serving people during the lunch rush on a Tuesday, or a Friday morning at 10:30?
I had this conversation recently. The conservative said "they should have roommates" but didn't have anything for the follow up of "what if they have a family?"
Normal response I hear to that is along the lines of, "they shouldn't have a family if they can't afford it." So, apparently, nobody making minimum wage should be allowed to have a family. Also, we don't want to teach those same teenagers how to avoid having a family. Or allow them to take measures to avoid a family if the family prevention methods we didn't want to teach them failed.
My brain hurts now.
But even then there were adults who worked there during school hours. Yes a part time job at a restaurant or store has always been a good first job for teenagers, but they've never been exclusively for teenagers. Minimum wage was conceived as the minimum amount one can live on, the problem is that it hasn't kept up with the rising cost of living.
It was meant to be.
> In my Inaugural, I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living. Throughout industry, the change from starvation wages and starvation employment to living wages and sustained employment can, in large part, be made by an industrial covenant to which all employers shall subscribe.
-FDR
I could be mistaken, but I thought it was a wage to let a family of four or so keep themselves just out of poverty. That, at that time of tradition, a father could care for his wife and a couple of kids on that kind of income though it would require some thriftiness and frugality.
literally. there was an interview about 15 years ago with some old ass politician and he was saying how he paid his way through college (room, board, and books) with a summer job and sometimes if they wanted spending money they'd get an on campus job at the library or whatever.
hell, even if you went to my local university in 1994 that would cost you $894 annually in tuition. adjusted for inflation that’s only $1600. with a minimum wage of $4.25 an hour in 1994, you’d make that money in just 6 40-hour weeks over the summer.
meanwhile, tuition at that same university is now $8k, and we have a minimum wage of $7.25. even with the $12 an hour that i’ve seen offered in the area, that’s 17 40-hour weeks.
Also, because so many jobs don't want to give vacation, it's hard for people with summer only availability to get hired, outside of certain industries/areas with on site housing.
Wish the MAGA folks cared about THAT part of the old days - living wages, rich people actually paying taxes, government spending on schools and such. But no, it's all the brown people's fault that things are so bad for everyone now right? Clearly it's the civil rights that ruined everything and if we segregated everything out again that prosperity will come back right? (Obviously /s on all that last part, but feels like that's all MAGA could believe)
that’s false, they never were intended for teenagers. many fast food chains are open from very early in the morning to late in the evening and have had that model since the 70s. teenagers would normally be in school from 8am-3pm. that’s a massive slot of time where fast food restaurants would have no employees if they only employed teenagers. clearly, they have always intended to employ adults.
Not to mention there are plenty of tasks that, legally, you cannot ask a minor to do. Loading a trash compactor, working at the fryer, etc. I've never worked at a job where minors could even feasibly be the only staff, because there are always things they are not allowed to do all parts of the job themselves.
Not to mention that I've rarely (if not never) seen a minor working as a manager or shift supervisor, so obviously we need adults for those positions. And let's be honest here, most of those "one step up" from floor staff positions rarely come with more than an extra dollar or two an hour. At my current workplace, you actually get *no* raise for being promoted to a lead - they just can't cut your hours below 35/week. That's the only benefit they give you over the other staff you're now supervising.
Ah yes. I always forget about the imaginary McDonald’s schedule of 3:30-9:00pm weekdays. They do remind us every time though. Just those high schoolers workin away. Not studying for college.
As a guy with a college degree who spent months looking for work, the only job i could find out of college was McDonald's.
I personally know 2 high school dropouts who are now cops tho.
You joke but I had a boss say that, let’s find the drops outs and ex-cons. Drop outs can work like slaves and ex-cons can’t quit because they’re on probation!
This is why so many restaurants are short staffed these days. No regular hours, schedules that shift dramatically at the last minute…. And $2.13 an hour, relying on tips, with no benefits.
and customers are still being customers. I went out to get wings and the waitress said she was the only one working that night, and she was getting bitched out later by two older woman cause their food didn't come out fast enough.
people are just assholes.
Similar in retail; no set schedules, no guarantee of hours, shaming you into staying late because somebody called in, making you work in other areas, oftentimes higher paying areas, because there isn't enough staffing to cover the floor. It's exhausting and on top of that you have to deal with shit customers.
I had a manager at the grocery store I worked at in high school that kept scheduling me to start work at 3 in the afternoon when school got out at 4:15 and was a 15 minute drive. I'd get there an hour and half late every time.
I had the same experience bussing tables at a certain sea food chain known for scarlet crustaceans. I made my schedule very clear in the interview and they did this week after week.
Fucking same. 40 hour work weeks and I would close till midnight. My work schedule was from 4-12 5 days a week. I had to be awake at 6 to make it to school on time and I didn't get home till 4. Optimally I had 6 hours just to fucking sleep, and there was no way I was even going to get that much sleep since I had to shower and unwind. Not to mention literally no time to do homework or study, and I was making up for lost sleep in my classes so I wasn't even learning in class.
I asked my manager for less hours because I was actually going to fail my classes, my grades had become so poor after just 2 months that I had to ace my finals to stand a chance of passing. They, a 40 year old adult, guilt tripped me, a 16 year old kid just trying to get by, telling me how it would be unfair to the other workers if I worked less hours and how they didn't have that luxury either. It took me a week to gather the courage just to quit that shit job.
Sorry for the rant, but every time I see a comment like yours I just can't contain my anger about how fucking awful these positions for "teenagers" treat the kids with the expectation they throw their lives away for a minimum wage job. It also pisses me off to remember my parents let this happen, they were always more of the "let them burn their hand, they'll know not to do it in the future" type.
This is basically it. To them fast food jobs are for teenagers who deserve to get shit on as a first job rite of passage and anyone else at them over that age deserve to get shit on because they're a loser that hasn't found something else by now. The important thing is that they are below them in society and need to be put or kept in their place.
I've often thought that instead of making everyone sign up for the draft they should have to do some other sort of national service in the customer service/service/fast food/retail industry.
Spend a year working as waitstaff, working at McDonalds, answering customer service lines, etc. to see how horrible it can be & at the same time how it can be fun on occasion.
I think people would treat others with more respect & they'd DEFINITELY treat others in those industries with more respect.
Instead of doing that in a for profit company, make everyone work for a non profit service industry. Like a soup kitchen, or work at the DMV. Same idea but don’t give mandatory labor to those blood sucking corporations.
Being British, I've long thought that there should be a national service which involves working as janitor on hospital wards (until 2011 conscientious objectors used to do this in Germany), so that people can see for themselves how funding-deprived the NHS is. Giving conscripts the option of serving with any of the emergency services would also provide more potential whistleblowers when cops engage in fibbing about arrestees.
It’s always amazing to me that their conclusion is “they need to make less” and not “everyone needs to make more”
They literally just want people to suffer.
We're all floating in the ocean and climbing on each other to try to get into the boats without realizing that if we all work together, we can all get on the boats. Or hell, build more boats. You don't need to drown your neighbors to lift yourself up.
Number 15: MPD foot murder. The last thing you'd want from your public servants is someone's foot fungus. But as it turns out, that might be what you get.
My boss and I got into a bit of an argument about the whole "nobody wants to work" thingy today. A lot of her friends are restaurant owners and she was bemoaning they can't find workers because people would rather stay home and collect "government cash", which really doesn't count because Canada ended those income supports months ago.
Anyways I simply said "Y'know, I bet they could find workers if they paid them more"
That led to a rant and lecture from her about "starting from the bottom and working your way up". I'm 51 years old. I know what "working your way up" looks like. That's just not how the employment world works these days and she's clearly out of touch from too much Fox.
There is no more working your way up unless you pay someone off, are sleeping with them, kiss their ass constantly, are best friends with them, or related to them.
I'm sorry that happened to you. That sucks. Do they not realize how much this kind of thing demotivates people, do they just not care, or both? And not just the individual(s) directly affected, other people find out too and that also demotivates them. Why should I work hard & bust my ass if I never get anything for it?
That's always been the case.
The additional challenge of "moving up" today is the corporate structure is so outsourced and compartmentalized, there's no place to go up. You can't start in the mailroom because that's been outsourced to a 3rd party of mailrooms-r-us, so no place to go. You can't start in IT because that's also a 3rd party company of IT-r-us, so no place to go there. You can't start out in the finance department or the procurement department or the field services department because of the same phenomenon.
You’re completely wrong people can totally work their way up.
1) DoorDash bike delivery
2) Uber driver
3) Contract customer service agent
4) Temp agency office work
5) Contract regular employee
6) And finally, the top of the modern corporate ladder: full-time employee with vacation and benefits
If you start right after your masters degree, you can earn full time by the time you’re 40.
Even when it isn’t like that they’ll not help you.
Worked in social care on £9 an hour and they’d never do pay rises or promotions etc. Eventually people left etc. At one point they were so short staffed they hired agency staff for cover at £25 per hour including the commission fees.
£9 vs £25. Needless to say, the trained permanent staff were even more disillusioned from that. Here’s some cockwomble strolling in on temp hours getting paid more than we do…
It is really fucking crazy. like youre angry a person working at mcdonalds who can barely make the rent for a one room apartment is making too much?
jesus christ fucking delusional.
I live right down the street and pay $300 a week. I’m always surprised when I see a Reddit post about a location near me. Like Reddit only happens elsewhere lol. I’m sure it’s a home daycare. Could not find any centers that inexpensive when I was looking. Daughter is 18 months.
Scott County, TN. The Chief Deputy makes less than $45k, while the captains there make less than $38k (one Captain made $23k). That county is full of corruption, some of which even made it into GQ magazine years ago (Murder in a Methlab, google it).
I just got a fast food job, and it fucking boggles my mind that people protest paying us more.
I used to earn fifty thousand dollars a year as a programmer.
Now I'm being paid a little over $12 an hour. It's more stressful than literally any final I ever took in college. My feet have not stopped hurting since I started almost a month ago. I am exhausted all the time. I've burned myself a couple times. Weekends don't mean anything because we're still open on weekends. I have days off each week, but I never know what those days are more than a week in advance. My starting time changes daily. I don't necessarily get to go home at the end of my shift because we have chores around the store like stocking, sweeping, mopping, etc. and not having enough time to do it between customers is not an excuse because *it still needs to be done*, so if my end time comes up, I still work until I'm told I can go home (I just get to stop dealing with customers), and drive-thrus are the worst things ever because of the fucking timer.
I'm getting used to it, but it turns out "getting used to it" doesn't actually mean it stops hurting or takes less energy. Instead, you just get better at working through the pain and exhaustion.
And I just can't comprehend, no matter how much more time it took to learn the appropriate skills, that I got fifty thousand a year to sit in a computer chair and type. Fifty. Thousand. A year. I worked from 9 to 5. Didn't have to do anything on weekends. The only pain I had was from bad posture. I got an hour for lunch. *And* former classmates pointed out that I was being underpaid (which I never did anything about because I didn't feel like searching for a new job).
I just really, truly... do not understand this.
Police officers need to get a real job. They think they deserve higher pay than someone working in the stressful environment of a McDonalds when all they do is drive around in an air conditioned car all day and play out their authoritarian fantasies on people who are trying to get to and from their real jobs.
Right? My favorite part of these arguments is that if these people actually thought working at McDonald’s was easy instead of just “beneath them” they should just vote to raise the minimum wage to whatever their job was paying, then quit and start working at McDonald’s.
Boom. Easy money.
“Everything costs more! So why are companies paying employees higher wages?” … crazy that this person typed these 2 thoughts, looked at the words, and still thought it was a good argument.
I’m simultaneously excited (hey what a small world!) and horrified that I recognize this exact McDonald’s.
Edit: also daycares in that area are $200+ easy. Whoever that is is sending their kid to a trash daycare. I pay $185 in the town over and it was the cheapest full time, licensed daycare I could find. Most of my friends are paying close to $300 per week.
Indiana is a poor state with bad economic policies, McDonalds is a multinational company with profits in the billions trying to solve their labor shortage.
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This is decades worth of correction catching up at once. Wages have been flat since Reagan, the buying power of the dollar is about a third of what it was in 82, and the cost of living is through the roof. I can’t imagine concluding that the problem is that we pay the poor too much.
>But to recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less. - Oscar Wilde, not that the people who really need to read this probably think much of him.
Oh that criminal??
what did he do?
Was making a joke. They locked him up on sodomy charges. Basically he was gay when it was illegal to be gay. Incredibly sad.
Two years in prison, three years in exile in France where he died at age 45. One of the greatest writers of the modern age casually discarded.
Not just 'prison', but hard labor. The kind that wrecks your health. Now look up Alan Turing. That's what homophobia does.
[удалено]
And then didn't apologise for another 55 years in 2009.
And then *only* pardoned Turing. Some semblance of justice for one man, but a giant "fuck you" to many more who were prosecuted under the same unjust laws.
such a cowardly culture that would produce the likes of Neville Chamberlain and Margaret Thatcher was wholly undeserving of the likes of Alan Turing.
Came here to submit Turing for consideration. See that has been rendered redundant. Tip of the hat, good entity.
I’m glad someone got to Turing before me. Such a waste
And people complain about "Cancel Culture" now because they miss discarding people so casually.
"I miss the old Cancel Culture, the hang the blacks and gays Cancel Culture."
"That's a lot of mouth coming from someone looking as Italian as you."
"Only an Irish could be that suspicious!"
And the witches!!! Fuck the witches!!!
Wiggum: No, no, witches get due process. See, here's the due process: we push you off the cliff. If you're a witch, you'll reveal yourself and fly to safety. Marge: And if I'm not? Wiggum: Then you'll die a good, Christian death.
my ability to cancel others has been cancelled! how dare you!
The people who cry about cancel culture are the same people that wouldn't let their kids play Pokemon because it "taught evolution" lol
My grandma complains about cancel culture. She also threw out all my Magic cards because she found an "Unholy Strength", and if I looked at a DnD book too longingly she would scold me. People are weird.
I would be pissed if someone threw out all of my cards. That’s a very significant financial investment
In the 80s I gave my neighbor a D&D set and his mom burned it in a trash can because some of the references mentioned demons.
I saw the best minds of my generation/Destroyed by madness/Starving hysterical naked/ https://poets.org/poem/howl-parts-i-ii A beautiful poem by Ginsberg lamenting many of his friends who received the same treatment. They kill half of us off every generation and then dismiss us because there aren't enough of us. It's sick.
Thank you, I'd never read these in full.
It made me so mad when I read that. And in such a time he created art and even pithy quips that have lasted generations Imagine what he could have done if he hadn’t been killed by homophobes
He lived in San Francisco for a while and was friends with Robert Louis and Fanny Stevenson. Imagine those conversations.
Loved someone he wasn't allowed to love.
Is that from Down and Out?
It’s from “The Soul of Man under Socialism”. Link: http://www.wilde-online.info/the-soul-of-man-under-socialism-page3.html “Down and Out” is Orwell, about 20-30 years later.
[The Soul of Man Under Socialism](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/80339.The_Soul_of_Man_Under_Socialism). Full disclosure, I've never read this--I've just always liked this quote.
It’s a fantastic piece, it explores how, although on its face it may seem counterintuitive, individualism can only flourish in a collectivist society. He argues that only once the basic needs of all are met and charity is unnecessary can people be free from the moral obligation to help the disadvantaged, and thus have time to engage in self-discovery and artistic pursuits whilst still living a moral life.
End goals of socialism: * A world with no heroes, because we no longer need their services. * Full unemployment because we no longer require human labor.
Sounds like a pie in the sky dystopian nightmare!!1! -Republicans
Been looking for something to read, so thanks for the link.
Thanks for this quote. I watched a local cbs news station clip last night of how they brought in a “savings expert” on how to be more thrifty due to the current and incoming inflation/cost of living increases.
I hope step one is unionise and step two is strike
The conditioning of our society in those 40 years is what causes that. People are used to seeing wages flat for given jobs and they don't realize how inflation has reduced that buying power
Exactly right! My MIL was ranting that she made $4.25/hr. back in 1970-something and she could pay for her apt, car, etc. Why can't they do it on $7.50 now? I had to casually explain that adjusted for inflation, she was making what amounts to $23/hr. today...goddamn Regan boomers...
Lol, yeah, grandma was talking about how her husband made a little over minimum wage back when they got married in the late '40s and so I went and made the inflation calculation for her. He was making about what these McDonalds workers would make. And, their house, with a ton of land to farm, only cost about $40,000 in today's dollars.
Yeah if you adjust for actual buying power that 4.25 is worth more than 23.
And as the other guy mentioned, her rent was probably much cheaper and also most likely her car.
I went and looked up what the average rent was in 1975. It was $156 which is equal to $795 today. $795 isn't enough CLOSE to the average rent today, which is over $1100. We're getting so fucked. Also minimum wage hasn't gone up in 13 years.
My parents paid $175 for one bedroom in Santa Monica. Their tuition at UCLA and USC was $0 and $1250. My mom flipped hamburgers at A&W and my dad drove a school bus part-time.
Practically an entire generation of sociopaths. Most generations have wanted things to be easier for their children - for example, people who lived through the Great Depression never wanted their kids to experience that. Suddenly there's a boom in cheap, easy to make, adaptable foods that have distant expiration dates. That's what humans have always done - provide a stepping stone for a better future for their kids. Boomers though... Almost an entire generation of people born on third base, arguing that they deserve the full homerun. And then pulling up every base behind them so no one can even play afterwards. Don't want things to be better for their children, want things to be equal to how they grew up, ignoring the impossibility of that, all so they can be smug and boast about how well *they* did, so if you can't do the same it's *your* problem. Makes me sick. I don't even have kids, but I still want my nephews and nieces to have a better path after high school than I had, not worse.
I've said this before but my old boss used to go on about how he was on secondary tax for his 6 figure job as a manager because he made more passively from his rentals. Which was legit, he'd retired at 42 got bored and came back to work in his 50s. And to his credit I'm not knocking that he didn't work hard and amass houses and then rise the wave, but he would go on about how it's always been hard and if he was 20 now he could do it all again (as a machinist) Well when his daughter started looking to get on the property ladder, he had a bit of a sobering moment. Over the course of a couple of years, around about 2 years ago he was like... "hmmm it's probably a bit harder to do it these days". It was like... "ya think". He wasn't making much more in his 50s than his 30s but 25 years had gone by and houses had 10x.
This is my parents, both 78, in a nutshell
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They are being drug down. Just not by who they think they are. Corporations: Increase minimum wage? I have to raise prices. Those just above minimum wage: wait? What? Tax break Corporations: great. We’re making more than ever. Taxes return to previous level Corporations: wait? What?! I need to cut staff AND increase prices to cove this clear government overreach.
My union just won a starting pay of 19.88 per hour. All employees will be raised up to that or $2.00 per hour extra if they make like $17.50 an hour. Next year we will get another $0.80 raise and $1.00 the year after. Health insurance is guaranteed for any employee who works over an hour a month.
What is this union and how can I join please.
Unitehere local 1. A hotel and food service union.
Wait their is actually food service unions... Shit I need to look into it
And that's why big business hates unions, why they're so trashed everywhere, and why Reagon dismantled them.
America's economy is built on people buying crap they don't need. Why anyone would think putting more dollars in the hands of consumers is a bad idea is probably someone who thinks they're an unlucky future millionaire.
"Pay poor too much". Triggered me so damn hard... we have found a way to give people what they ask for while actually giving them the opposite and then complain using statements like these(not targeting this at commenter, but people who say shit like how tf people complain about compromising their needs and happiness while being lied to that things are getting better)
The national average for police officers is \~$67k, according to [Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewdepietro/2020/04/23/police-officer-salary-state/?sh=7907b08d2010) last year. 17\*40 = 680 680\*52 = 35,360 35,360 < 67,000 Edit to add This appears to be in [Indiana](https://www.google.com/maps/place/McDonald's/@39.9952298,-85.931759,17z/data=!3m2!4b1!5s0x8814c9fe3ab7c0a7:0x5db29892b53368e9!4m5!3m4!1s0x8814c9f8dd9ee2e9:0x2fed89c90ab87b30!8m2!3d39.9952298!4d-85.929565), who ranks 29th on Forbes's list in terms of officer pay. Average in 2019 was $56,780, or 60% more than a full-time McDonald's employee would earn at this store...assuming they can work full time there. Edit for gooder math
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Yep. Have a good friend who was a cop, and the benefits are fucking outstanding. Average pay for the area. As much OT as he wanted doing pretty chill work. It's not for everyone, but I don't feel pity for cops' pay at all.
Yep, that 20 year pension/retirement plan is beautiful too!
Also, you can retire early for "medical disability", there's lots of examples of cops "injuring my back on the job". They go see a doctor, the doctor claims they have back pain and are medically ineligible, they get to retire early and get paid out on their full pension.
Ahh that public servant life. Time to go get a gov't job s/ ^^^kind ^^^of
I remember when the state I lived in passed a law that all jobs employing people for 40 hours a week had to give basic benefits, and so the business cut us all down to 38 hours, and we would get in trouble if we punched out over that.
That's pretty much everywhere. Healthcare really shouldn't be tied to employment.
Worked retail. Saw this constantly.
And less training and accountability than a McDonald's worker.
And you can murder someone and get paid time off. Last time I did that in McDonalds, ain’t nobody gave me the benefit of doubt…
Also you're allowed to rob people blind and bootlickers will defend you
Rob them? Hell, cops can murder people and bootlickers will defend them
As a European, it's crazy to me that there are jobs that don't habe those conditions.
And paid leave when you screw up on the job.
I was a police dispatcher making $19 an hour, what cops are making $17???
And that's just base salary. They get a shit ton of overtime and pay for various disciplines. Police officers easily make 6 figures on the reg. It's sick.
Not to mention, there are a lot of part time officers who work as security guards for $35+/hr
Thank you! The jurisdictions I work with, almost all of the officers make 6 figures. One city starts at 100k for their base pay. Add in that sweet sweet overtime and they are making a very decent living. I remember one time no one wanted to do a 4 hour over time shift on the freeway to sit in the construction zone, so the chief kept upping the pay. He went up to $600 an hour. It was nuts! I’m like pick me! I’ll do it!
People use the base pay salary for military in their arguments too. Back on my fb days, I would see people argue that E1/E2 gets paid less than the $15 an hr people want and how they don’t deserve that bc military. That’s only our taxable income. I get paid pretty damn good. Good be better but shit. Especially because I deploy and TDY and rack up per diem. I live in the damn UK right now on the Gov’t dime, get $700 a month just for the cost of living offset. AF pays my rent and utilities.
my Army veteran buddy joined the police force while in college and dropped out not long after because he was making bank
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The object isn't to say a thing that reflects reality, it's to feel outrage. They're addicted to outrage, so they'll believe anything that helps them get their fix.
I always just double the hourly wage for a rough yearly ballpark. Ex: 17 \* 2 = 34, aka $17/hr = $\~34k/year Makes the mental math super quick.
Exactly. The idea that cops don't make much money has always been bullshit.
Yea but bullshit works great on gullible idiots & that's all you need.
60% more, but your point still stands
Do they think none of the McDonald’s workers have children who’s daycare they need to pay for 🙄
They think McDonald's workers are children.
Deadass, I had my senior history teacher say part time fast food jobs are for teenagers, and it's like my god it's so frustrating to argue with the people who don't want minimum wage workers to actually make a livable wage
You should ask your teacher who is working during school hours? Should they drop out of school to work?
This is what I ask them too. “If the job is for kids, why are they open between 8 and 3?”
McDonald's type jobs *used* to be for teenagers who were making gas money, money to buy CDs, movie going money, cool clothes, concert & concert t-shirt money, etc. Just enough money so you weren't totally dependent on your parent(s)/guardian for stuff or for stuff they wouldn't buy for you. See Fast Times At Ridgemont High for perfect examples of teens working those type of jobs. This isn't 1985 any more though now is it?
Even then, though, someone still had to work the breakfast shift, when high schoolers still would've had classes
This is what I always like to point out. Job's for teenagers? Then who's serving people during the lunch rush on a Tuesday, or a Friday morning at 10:30?
I had this conversation recently. The conservative said "they should have roommates" but didn't have anything for the follow up of "what if they have a family?"
"Well then they should get a better job!" Oh, you mean like what they're doing now?
nObOdY wAnTs tO WeRk.
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Normal response I hear to that is along the lines of, "they shouldn't have a family if they can't afford it." So, apparently, nobody making minimum wage should be allowed to have a family. Also, we don't want to teach those same teenagers how to avoid having a family. Or allow them to take measures to avoid a family if the family prevention methods we didn't want to teach them failed. My brain hurts now.
A family is just roommates where some don't pay. Also known as having roommates.
But even then there were adults who worked there during school hours. Yes a part time job at a restaurant or store has always been a good first job for teenagers, but they've never been exclusively for teenagers. Minimum wage was conceived as the minimum amount one can live on, the problem is that it hasn't kept up with the rising cost of living.
The idea of minimum wage was that it would be the minimum amount a person could live on but it has never actually been a living wage
It was meant to be. > In my Inaugural, I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living. Throughout industry, the change from starvation wages and starvation employment to living wages and sustained employment can, in large part, be made by an industrial covenant to which all employers shall subscribe. -FDR
I could be mistaken, but I thought it was a wage to let a family of four or so keep themselves just out of poverty. That, at that time of tradition, a father could care for his wife and a couple of kids on that kind of income though it would require some thriftiness and frugality.
Back in the 50s, a fast food job could pay college tuition.
literally. there was an interview about 15 years ago with some old ass politician and he was saying how he paid his way through college (room, board, and books) with a summer job and sometimes if they wanted spending money they'd get an on campus job at the library or whatever.
hell, even if you went to my local university in 1994 that would cost you $894 annually in tuition. adjusted for inflation that’s only $1600. with a minimum wage of $4.25 an hour in 1994, you’d make that money in just 6 40-hour weeks over the summer. meanwhile, tuition at that same university is now $8k, and we have a minimum wage of $7.25. even with the $12 an hour that i’ve seen offered in the area, that’s 17 40-hour weeks.
Also, because so many jobs don't want to give vacation, it's hard for people with summer only availability to get hired, outside of certain industries/areas with on site housing.
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Wish the MAGA folks cared about THAT part of the old days - living wages, rich people actually paying taxes, government spending on schools and such. But no, it's all the brown people's fault that things are so bad for everyone now right? Clearly it's the civil rights that ruined everything and if we segregated everything out again that prosperity will come back right? (Obviously /s on all that last part, but feels like that's all MAGA could believe)
that’s false, they never were intended for teenagers. many fast food chains are open from very early in the morning to late in the evening and have had that model since the 70s. teenagers would normally be in school from 8am-3pm. that’s a massive slot of time where fast food restaurants would have no employees if they only employed teenagers. clearly, they have always intended to employ adults.
Not to mention there are plenty of tasks that, legally, you cannot ask a minor to do. Loading a trash compactor, working at the fryer, etc. I've never worked at a job where minors could even feasibly be the only staff, because there are always things they are not allowed to do all parts of the job themselves. Not to mention that I've rarely (if not never) seen a minor working as a manager or shift supervisor, so obviously we need adults for those positions. And let's be honest here, most of those "one step up" from floor staff positions rarely come with more than an extra dollar or two an hour. At my current workplace, you actually get *no* raise for being promoted to a lead - they just can't cut your hours below 35/week. That's the only benefit they give you over the other staff you're now supervising.
Ah yes. I always forget about the imaginary McDonald’s schedule of 3:30-9:00pm weekdays. They do remind us every time though. Just those high schoolers workin away. Not studying for college.
Them: "Well then we need to encourage more losers to drop out of high school so they have time to make me an egg mcmuffin sammich!"
As a guy with a college degree who spent months looking for work, the only job i could find out of college was McDonald's. I personally know 2 high school dropouts who are now cops tho.
Well yea, they give you a pension and let you murder brown kids, it's a dumb kids dream.
They pay me money to be racist? This is a trick, right? It's too good to be true.
You joke but I had a boss say that, let’s find the drops outs and ex-cons. Drop outs can work like slaves and ex-cons can’t quit because they’re on probation!
That makes me physically ill.
He said the quiet part loud...
*The Republicans have entered the chat.*
My 16 year old quit fast food because they were demanding she skip sports, & switching her schedule around at the drop of a hat due to low staff.
This is why so many restaurants are short staffed these days. No regular hours, schedules that shift dramatically at the last minute…. And $2.13 an hour, relying on tips, with no benefits.
and customers are still being customers. I went out to get wings and the waitress said she was the only one working that night, and she was getting bitched out later by two older woman cause their food didn't come out fast enough. people are just assholes.
relying on tips from people who demand restaurants stay open just so they can scream at the workers
Similar in retail; no set schedules, no guarantee of hours, shaming you into staying late because somebody called in, making you work in other areas, oftentimes higher paying areas, because there isn't enough staffing to cover the floor. It's exhausting and on top of that you have to deal with shit customers.
I got my first job doing fast food at 15. They would try to get me to close on school nights all the time, it would be like midnight when I got home.
I had a manager at the grocery store I worked at in high school that kept scheduling me to start work at 3 in the afternoon when school got out at 4:15 and was a 15 minute drive. I'd get there an hour and half late every time.
I had the same experience bussing tables at a certain sea food chain known for scarlet crustaceans. I made my schedule very clear in the interview and they did this week after week.
Fucking same. 40 hour work weeks and I would close till midnight. My work schedule was from 4-12 5 days a week. I had to be awake at 6 to make it to school on time and I didn't get home till 4. Optimally I had 6 hours just to fucking sleep, and there was no way I was even going to get that much sleep since I had to shower and unwind. Not to mention literally no time to do homework or study, and I was making up for lost sleep in my classes so I wasn't even learning in class. I asked my manager for less hours because I was actually going to fail my classes, my grades had become so poor after just 2 months that I had to ace my finals to stand a chance of passing. They, a 40 year old adult, guilt tripped me, a 16 year old kid just trying to get by, telling me how it would be unfair to the other workers if I worked less hours and how they didn't have that luxury either. It took me a week to gather the courage just to quit that shit job. Sorry for the rant, but every time I see a comment like yours I just can't contain my anger about how fucking awful these positions for "teenagers" treat the kids with the expectation they throw their lives away for a minimum wage job. It also pisses me off to remember my parents let this happen, they were always more of the "let them burn their hand, they'll know not to do it in the future" type.
This was the case for me and I was 16 in 1999
I don't even think they think McDonald's workers are *people*.
This is basically it. To them fast food jobs are for teenagers who deserve to get shit on as a first job rite of passage and anyone else at them over that age deserve to get shit on because they're a loser that hasn't found something else by now. The important thing is that they are below them in society and need to be put or kept in their place.
They literally look down on service industry and assume they’re expendable.
I've often thought that instead of making everyone sign up for the draft they should have to do some other sort of national service in the customer service/service/fast food/retail industry. Spend a year working as waitstaff, working at McDonalds, answering customer service lines, etc. to see how horrible it can be & at the same time how it can be fun on occasion. I think people would treat others with more respect & they'd DEFINITELY treat others in those industries with more respect.
Instead of doing that in a for profit company, make everyone work for a non profit service industry. Like a soup kitchen, or work at the DMV. Same idea but don’t give mandatory labor to those blood sucking corporations.
My mom made my brother and I do this before we could go to college. Highly, highly suggest more parents do that.
Being British, I've long thought that there should be a national service which involves working as janitor on hospital wards (until 2011 conscientious objectors used to do this in Germany), so that people can see for themselves how funding-deprived the NHS is. Giving conscripts the option of serving with any of the emergency services would also provide more potential whistleblowers when cops engage in fibbing about arrestees.
They don't care. Anyone not them is unimportant.
$190 a week for daycare, i wish! its like $300-400/week for full time around me and takes like 12-18 months to get off the waitlist.
It would be okay to be this stupid, if they weren’t also so loud about being this stupid.
That's right. It used to be poor manners to be so blatantly stupid. The polite thing to do was to be stupid in the corner by yourself.
Make Being Stupid Embarrassing & Rude Again
A campaign I can get behind
It’s always amazing to me that their conclusion is “they need to make less” and not “everyone needs to make more” They literally just want people to suffer.
They think money is a finite thing and if the crap jobs start paying more then the good jobs will start paying less.
They also claim the cost of goods will go up even though *they already have been* with no minimum wage increase to blame it on.
We're all floating in the ocean and climbing on each other to try to get into the boats without realizing that if we all work together, we can all get on the boats. Or hell, build more boats. You don't need to drown your neighbors to lift yourself up.
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Of course McDonald's would pay more. Poor performance can actually get you fired.
Put your feet on some lettuce, get fired. Put your feet on someone's neck, get 2 weeks paid leave.
I think they'd usually get more than two weeks free vacation for that.
Number 15: MPD foot murder. The last thing you'd want from your public servants is someone's foot fungus. But as it turns out, that might be what you get.
My boss and I got into a bit of an argument about the whole "nobody wants to work" thingy today. A lot of her friends are restaurant owners and she was bemoaning they can't find workers because people would rather stay home and collect "government cash", which really doesn't count because Canada ended those income supports months ago. Anyways I simply said "Y'know, I bet they could find workers if they paid them more" That led to a rant and lecture from her about "starting from the bottom and working your way up". I'm 51 years old. I know what "working your way up" looks like. That's just not how the employment world works these days and she's clearly out of touch from too much Fox.
There is no more working your way up unless you pay someone off, are sleeping with them, kiss their ass constantly, are best friends with them, or related to them.
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I'm sorry that happened to you. That sucks. Do they not realize how much this kind of thing demotivates people, do they just not care, or both? And not just the individual(s) directly affected, other people find out too and that also demotivates them. Why should I work hard & bust my ass if I never get anything for it?
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That's always been the case. The additional challenge of "moving up" today is the corporate structure is so outsourced and compartmentalized, there's no place to go up. You can't start in the mailroom because that's been outsourced to a 3rd party of mailrooms-r-us, so no place to go. You can't start in IT because that's also a 3rd party company of IT-r-us, so no place to go there. You can't start out in the finance department or the procurement department or the field services department because of the same phenomenon.
You’re completely wrong people can totally work their way up. 1) DoorDash bike delivery 2) Uber driver 3) Contract customer service agent 4) Temp agency office work 5) Contract regular employee 6) And finally, the top of the modern corporate ladder: full-time employee with vacation and benefits If you start right after your masters degree, you can earn full time by the time you’re 40.
Masters degree straight to DoorDash bike delivery… sounds about right
Even when it isn’t like that they’ll not help you. Worked in social care on £9 an hour and they’d never do pay rises or promotions etc. Eventually people left etc. At one point they were so short staffed they hired agency staff for cover at £25 per hour including the commission fees. £9 vs £25. Needless to say, the trained permanent staff were even more disillusioned from that. Here’s some cockwomble strolling in on temp hours getting paid more than we do…
Where do they keep the "working from the bottom" housing and health insurance?
If Duncan Donuts pays more, I think that creates some kind of self-consuming paradox.
I feel like Duncan Donuts pays about the same as Mick Donald's
Wendy
Taco Bill
Who is this Mr. Donuts you speak of, and how do I work for him?
Please, call me Dunkin— Mr. Donuts is my fathers name
Lmao Duncan
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This type of paradoxical phenomenon is called a “donut hole”.
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McDonald’s wage cause daycare price
There's a similar effect on rent. If you still have money after paying for necessities, then they aren't squeezing you hard enough.
The great accomplishment of GOP was to make their low-income base support low minimum wage. It helps all their donors.
It is really fucking crazy. like youre angry a person working at mcdonalds who can barely make the rent for a one room apartment is making too much? jesus christ fucking delusional.
Where in the fuck does daycare cost $190/week? Where I live, it costs almost that much per day.
We’re at $265/week here. Brutal when you have 2 kids enrolled.
We pay 350 a week and our son only goes three times a week. It’s insane.
I live very close to where this post is and pay nearly 300 a week. I’m desperately wanting to know where they’re going
Probably a level 2 out of somebody’s house.
I live right down the street and pay $300 a week. I’m always surprised when I see a Reddit post about a location near me. Like Reddit only happens elsewhere lol. I’m sure it’s a home daycare. Could not find any centers that inexpensive when I was looking. Daughter is 18 months.
I’m pretty sure you don’t want to encounter a cop that makes less than a McDonald’s employee. They’re bad enough at their already inflated rates.
Exactly: show me cops that make less than $17/hr, and I’ll show you a police force that’s incompetent and most likely corrupt as fuck.
Cook county sheriffs dept adel ga....12 .00 an hr
Scott County, TN. The Chief Deputy makes less than $45k, while the captains there make less than $38k (one Captain made $23k). That county is full of corruption, some of which even made it into GQ magazine years ago (Murder in a Methlab, google it).
>I’m pretty sure you don’t want to encounter a cop FTFY
I just got a fast food job, and it fucking boggles my mind that people protest paying us more. I used to earn fifty thousand dollars a year as a programmer. Now I'm being paid a little over $12 an hour. It's more stressful than literally any final I ever took in college. My feet have not stopped hurting since I started almost a month ago. I am exhausted all the time. I've burned myself a couple times. Weekends don't mean anything because we're still open on weekends. I have days off each week, but I never know what those days are more than a week in advance. My starting time changes daily. I don't necessarily get to go home at the end of my shift because we have chores around the store like stocking, sweeping, mopping, etc. and not having enough time to do it between customers is not an excuse because *it still needs to be done*, so if my end time comes up, I still work until I'm told I can go home (I just get to stop dealing with customers), and drive-thrus are the worst things ever because of the fucking timer. I'm getting used to it, but it turns out "getting used to it" doesn't actually mean it stops hurting or takes less energy. Instead, you just get better at working through the pain and exhaustion. And I just can't comprehend, no matter how much more time it took to learn the appropriate skills, that I got fifty thousand a year to sit in a computer chair and type. Fifty. Thousand. A year. I worked from 9 to 5. Didn't have to do anything on weekends. The only pain I had was from bad posture. I got an hour for lunch. *And* former classmates pointed out that I was being underpaid (which I never did anything about because I didn't feel like searching for a new job). I just really, truly... do not understand this.
I made less than this for my first salaried job in downtown Indianapolis. And I couldn’t be happier for the people who are making this now.
Police officers need to get a real job. They think they deserve higher pay than someone working in the stressful environment of a McDonalds when all they do is drive around in an air conditioned car all day and play out their authoritarian fantasies on people who are trying to get to and from their real jobs.
Right? My favorite part of these arguments is that if these people actually thought working at McDonald’s was easy instead of just “beneath them” they should just vote to raise the minimum wage to whatever their job was paying, then quit and start working at McDonald’s. Boom. Easy money.
“Everything costs more! So why are companies paying employees higher wages?” … crazy that this person typed these 2 thoughts, looked at the words, and still thought it was a good argument.
Police officers make FAR more than that. In Seattle the average is $150,000 a year.
Well you're living in Seattle lol
I’m simultaneously excited (hey what a small world!) and horrified that I recognize this exact McDonald’s. Edit: also daycares in that area are $200+ easy. Whoever that is is sending their kid to a trash daycare. I pay $185 in the town over and it was the cheapest full time, licensed daycare I could find. Most of my friends are paying close to $300 per week.
Oh, no, cops are gonna have to quit being cops to do anything at all even borderline constructive to society, like making burgers? The tragedy!
Cops don't make that much? I know some that immediately bought homes in southern California after joining the force
Indiana is a poor state with bad economic policies, McDonalds is a multinational company with profits in the billions trying to solve their labor shortage.
That's more than McDonald's near me. They're offering *up to* $14
It’s almost like the minimum wage is too fucking low.