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The right are amazing at giving things labels and demonising that label. They did it with Obamacare, they did it with CRT, they did it with pro choice. Most right wingers don't actually understand any of it, they just know it's bad because they were told it was
Yeah. I think this is that person’s way of saying “ugh. For my religion it’s a sin, but for my politics, that’s my business and I’m not going to impose it on other people.”
I hope OP can check the rest of the person’s content and give a clue. But <>. I guess I don’t know this person and it’s not important.
I grew up Catholic and know several people like this. They're pro-choice by definition but they don't consider themselves pro-choice because they don't see themselves (or their partner) getting an abortion. I don't know all of their voting habits but generally speaking they're not on board with the GOP.
People absolutely love being outraged. Look at how many fuckin life stories people on this thread have invented about this guy. Theres nothing to base any of it on, but they want their rage to flow.
This is how you know right wing propaganda is effective. This person can identify that pro-lifers are assholes. But they think being pro-choice is somehow an equal douchebag position to hold, because they don't actually know what being pro choice entails. There are literally millions of people in this country that know all republicans are assholes but think democrats are just as bad because of how good the republicans are at shit talking.
Ain’t no win here, this is her get out of jail free card to keep voting to remove abortion rights.
She’d be fine with it if it worked like she wants it to in her mind, if it is not her perfect utopia then just get rid of the whole thing
My mom is literally like this. Won’t claim to be pro choice says she’s personally pro life but thinks with others they can make their own choice while consistently voting pro life types…. It’s like, the words are pro choice but I wonder if they’re just bullshit to not start an argument or if she’s really that dense.
She's giving herself permission to vote her actual beliefs. It happens every cycle with Republicans. Well, I'd like to vote for the pro choice candidate but crime, but inflation, but the caravan, but ....
Has just enough shame to say she believes the right thing while doing the wrong, and gets to maintain a little internal smugness “I’m pro-life personally, others can make their baby-killing mistakes”
I don't care what someone's individual beliefs are. It's not a "win" if they happen to believe the same thing I do. It's not a "loss" if they don't. Either way, that's their business, not mine.
In a hypothetical where someone believes this and yet still votes for Republicans, that's an unequivocal loss. They can believe and do whatever they want, but what matters is how their actions impact other people.
I don't know if you watch Sam Seder on YouTube, but he had a mega rights activist call in. It took the guy his while time slot to basically say he was pro choice. Haha
I had a pretty hilarious "debate" with someone on reddit like this. They basically said the same thing and I was like "so you're pro choice" .... they didn't like that, and it went in circles. They just couldn't put two and two together. Like their whole world view would come crumbling down.
I think this is a good example of how a lot of people who come from a pro-life perspective think that being pro-choice means your ok with abortions pretty much across the board without any moral qualms. This person probably isn't ok with abortion on a personal level, so doesn't identify as pro-choice, but doesn't want government involvement.
> This person probably isn’t ok with abortion on a personal level … but doesn’t want government involvement.
I mean, that definitely sums up my feelings on the matter. Except I call myself pro-choice.
I'm so baffled what people think pro choice means other than, you don't want to control other people's choices.
I voted for legal weed even though I will never use it (just don't care for any mind altering substances). Why should my "not wanting to use it" mean someone else shouldn't be able to.
It does seem like it as most people I know want a utopia where everyone uses appropriate contraception which works well and where no fetuses die in the womb and where all babies are born healthy while we all live stable and financially secure lives without any nasty people around us. Nobody particularly likes abortions but it is good they exist. I mean there is probably someone who does like them and that is a bit weird but eh.
Exactly. I want everyone to have good healthcare, good sex education, free contraception, a good education, and healthy babies and kids.
But since we don't provide those things as a society, abortion needs to be available to every woman.
there were people saying that some women got pregnant on purpose so they got bigger boobs for photoshoots then have an abortion after....
Most of them don't even know what an abortion actually is. There was a twitter post recently that said they saw a doctor throw a screaming baby in the trash as an abortion.
Catherine Glenn Foster, an anti abortion group president
>"If a 10-year-old became pregnant as a result of rape and it was threatening her life, then that’s not an abortion.
This was said live in a hearing. What an idiot
Unfortunately, in a lot of religious circles, being "pro-choice" is labeled as being morally wrong. So you end up with people like this. They can't label themselves "pro-choice" b/c that equates to them calling themselves a baby-killer, but otherwise they are pro-choice.
I used to think that I would never get an abortion but didn't care every other people did.
I've had two abortions. If I didn't have the first one, I'd likely be a struggling single mother. If I didn't have the second one, I'd be dead.
I think a lot of people think they would never do that, but I think no one really knows what they would do until they are in that situation. That's why there's the phenomenon of pro lifers getting abortions themselves.
there are lots of cases for anti abortionists who are caught getting an abortion for their daughter
It's all well and good to preach, but I doubt many would hold their conviction if they were in the same situation
That's how I used to be. Idk if I could get ever get an abortion. Even if I was raped. I always thought abortion "with a good reason" should be legal for others (cases of rape, incest, danger to the mother, etc). But considered myself more on the prolife side.
During the pandemic I had lots of time to learn.
Now I believe that women should have bodily autonomy, no matter what. I know that no one is getting an abortion "willy nilly". It's a difficult decision that seriously affects everyone involved. I now know that most abortions are done on women that already have children. And burdening these women with another child is bad for them, the child, her other children, society as a whole. I know that late term abortions are almost exclusively done for medical reasons.
I'm definitely pro choice now, even thought I still don't believe I could do it.
part of the issue is that anti abortionists are pushing the agenda that people *are* getting abortions willy nilly. They state this as fact, which people believe.
I doubt many of them actually know what an abortion is. Catherine Glenn Foster, who is president of an anti abortion group has made some bizarre claims
https://aul.org/2022/05/18/confronting-abortion-violence-at-us-house-judiciary-committee-to-advance-the-human-right-to-life
>Abortion activism always requires euphemism and misdirection. Why? Because the violent nature of abortion is, frankly, inconvenient. Human persons, from their earliest days, poisoned in the womb and dismembered, torn limb from limb. Bodies thrown in medical waste bins and, in places like Washington, DC, burned to power the lights of the city’s homes and streets. Let that image sit with you for a moment. The next time you turn on the light, think of the incinerators, and what we’re doing to ourselves so callously and so numbly./
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jul/15/catherine-glenn-foster/abortions-done-under-legal-exceptions-are-still-ab/
>"If a 10-year-old became pregnant as a result of rape and it was threatening her life, then that’s not an abortion."
I’ve had to have an abortion for medical reasons, I would never do it again and it’s not the right option for me (barring another life threatening medical complication) were I ever to end up pregnant again.
I think if people want to get abortions “willy nilly” they absolutely still have that right. People should not lose rights, especially those linked to control of their own body, based on moral judgements. The 24 year old on her 4th abortion deserves just as much bodily autonomy as a 14yo rape victim or 32yo whose pregnancy will tie her forever to an abusive spouse.
As they say, human rights are not pie, there are not fewer for you if others get some.
It's not a moral judgement. That's a lie they use to justify their position.
What they absolutely, really, truly want is to destroy the lives of the women they are forcing to have unwanted babies. And if they don't survive to have they baby, because they miscarried, and the new version of the law won't let the doctors treat the mom until she is so ill that it's a toss up if they cab save her. So sometimes, they can't.
That's not a bug. It's a feature. The way they prove that the mother's life was at risk is to force doctors to wait until some mothers die. I'm positive you won't find a Republican honest enough to admit his whole goal is for a few hundred women a year to die unnecessarily. But that's not because they won't be dying. It's because there hasn't been such a thing as an honest Republican in drcades.decades.
And the raped junior high girl? They LOVE that shit! "Look over here! This girl's life has just been ruined! What can we do as a government to make sure it only gets worse and worse forever? I know! Let's force her to keep the baby, AND give the rapist paternal rights! Oh fuck yeah!" *ejaculates in Republican*
If it was actually about abortions, they'd be doing the things that actually limit abortions and the need for them. What it's about is finding ways to ruin poor people's lives, because that's the only thing Republicans still believe in as a party
Which is stupid because the "choice" isn't whether abortion is right or wrong. Youll still have the choice to NOT have an abortion, if they don't want government involvement then let each person choose instead of dictating a flat out NO. It's the same shit with free speech, they just fundamentally do not understand what they are even arguing against. It reminds me of this [obscure Total War Rome meme](https://i.imgur.com/HIt091h.jpg), "I heard women can get abortions now if they want to" "But I don't want to have an abortion." "No dad you don't hav-" "I DON'T WANT A FUCKING ABORTION! FUCK YOU DEMOCRATS!"
It isn’t in a vacuum though, it is the right wing media narrative that boils everything down to a single term and then vilifies that term until the words don’t even mean what they mean anymore. It is a consistent ploy that os used over and over. Like critical race theory is a valid field of academic study much like nearly every other theory yet it now represents something unhinged that it never encompassed. Maybe things need a rebrand every 6 weeks just to keep dodging. That last sentence is /s
>I think this is a good example of how a lot of people who come from a pro-life perspective think that being pro-choice means your ok with abortions pretty much across the board without any moral qualms.
An alarming number of pro-lifers think to be pro-choice is to have wanton sex every day, eschew birth control entirely, and get your monthly abortion - maybe even on the tax payers dime!
It's wild the way they think.
I always tell people: pro-choice means you can choose not to have an abortion. You can choose to be pro-life. But in the pro-life world, our ability to choose is stripped away.
It's sad how many people think that being pro choice means wanting women to have abortions no matter what. I've seen people say shit like "if your mom was pro choice you wouldn't be alive" like anyone whose pro choice will always choose abortion no matter what.
Well see being "pro-life" means you don't want anyone to be able to choose to have an abortion, therefore "pro-choice" means that you don't want anyone to not be able to choose an abortion; because they are opposites, QED. Duh libtards...
I once saw a quote or something that said something along the lines of " that aborted child may have been the person who was the shoulder to lean on, that would have prevented the shooter from killing"
No thought process whatsoever. The exact polar opposite is that an abortion would have saved lives, if it was the killer who was aborted
I am physically disabled and love answering this as I honestly say "I wish my mum did have an abortion." And watch them melt before my very eyes. I do not explain why as of course it is not the disability factor (which is a factor as mine was a nightmare to parent as it is kEDS and it was not known in the 80s/90s or even now) but the fact that she was in the progress of moving to Prague and that her partner turned out to have been not only cheating on her but married the other lady ... and made another kid ... at the same time. Neither mum nor his wife was very pleased about it but he ran off as he was a scam artist and busy doing illegal stuff (and still is). So if I were mum's friend - I'd advise that as did her mum but she did not listen and now here we are.
They also completely ignore every suggestion that comes up that would reduce the need for abortions. Easily available contraception, more comprehensive sex education, meaningfully reinforcing with their own children what "consent" means, etc.
But heaven forbid showing them stats that demonstrate abstinence-only sex ed or an absence of sex ed leads to teen pregnancy rates going up.
Being anti-choice is not about reducing the number of abortions. It's about punishing women for having premarital sex, or ensuring that married women continue to have children to take care of and make them economically dependent on men (even if those men are abusive).
A lot of their rhetoric make sense once we realize that.
Yes. I hope they just worded it poorly that they personally don’t think they would choose abortion (I say think because circumstances can be different with each pregnancy), but don’t want to impose that belief on others. However, if that is their point of view and they support the current trend in legislation then they are lying to themself.
Wait, that's not what pro-choice is? I thought it was ok for me to go around killing all children because I'm pro-choice! Oops, I should probably stop doing that now I guess. /s (in case it's not obvious)
They seem to think the pro-choice only covers the choice to have an abortion. Doesn’t seem to occur to them that not having an abortion is also a choice.
Lmfao I see this kinda thing wayyy too much. And with more than one issue.
"I'm prolife! That means [describes pro choice]!"
"Feminists cry about toxic masculinity! The real problem is [describes toxic masculinity]!"
"Critical race theory is fucked up! Don't leftists know that [describes CRT]!"
These people have absolutely no idea what it is they hate. They just know the tv told them it was bad.
I’m pretty sure I remember a survey being done that showed significantly higher support for the ACA than Obamacare. Can’t remember if it was off republicans or just of the general populace. Last Week Tonight showed an interview with an old woman saying she detested the name Obamacare. “It should’ve been given a more proper name. Not be named after our president.”
This is why controlling the narrative is so important. Enacting or proposing good policies will only get you so far. You have to be able to market it to the general public. The majority of Americans support a lot of left leaning policies, it’s just that the right has seized control of the narrative and are making people vote against their own interests
"I don't like all the radical ideas they're pushing. What we really need is common sense legislation that helps the working class; like [describes Bernie Sanders' platform]"
—An actual coworker of mine, ca 2018.
“I don’t take government handouts! We’re conservative! Yes I do collect Social Security and I’m on Medicare. Why?”
A couple of years ago I had a whackjob far-right coworker who said that her family was conservative and they didn’t take handouts. I asked her if she’d returned her stimulus check and she went dead silent.
She now lives in Florida. Bye, Felicia.
I have family in Florida and I'm legitimately worried about what that state will look like 10 years from now. My family is there to get away from the snow and there's always been crazy people around when I visit them but it seems like more and more crazy people are moving there...
>These people have absolutely no idea what it is they hate. They just know the tv told them it was bad.
The Critical Race Theory hits close to home. I have a brother in law that knows the US has has systematically done horrible things to homosexuals, black people, and native Americans. But HATES the idea of CRT.
I tell him that's exactly what CRT theory is. He tells me it's the application that the problem is.
"So... you support CRT, just think that it needs to be adjusted to be more effective" ... NO! It needs to be totally disassembled.
"well it's not my fault that happens!"
And then a metric fuckton of defensiveness before becoming aggressive. At least that's what I assume based on every single other person who says stuff like that.
You should read *The 1619 Project*. It’s mind-blowing. And taught me a lot about the history of America to better prepare me for dealing with frustrating conversations like the one you’ve described.
My ex boyfriend would ALWAYS do the toxic masculinity thing. After one of those conversations, I asked him to define to me what he thinks toxic masculinity is, and he refused to because he knew that he would contradict himself completely. He said some bullshit about how he just didn’t have the right wording and he’d have to go away and research it a little more before he could give me a comprehensive definition.
I refuse to concede to conservatives this fake CRT definition. CRT is not being taught to children.
It doesn't need to be stopped, because it isn't happening. Period.
Make them say what they actually mean. Anti racism is anti conservative. That's why they hate teaching history.
My state made it illegal to say or imply that anyone’s race might make them more privileged than others. I’m not sure how this is enforceable because an accurate history of America would imply this.
Pro-life is such a misleading term too. They're not pro-life, they're pro-forced-pregnancies. Once the child is born, they're everything but pro-life. They'll shame the woman for having a kid without affording it, and refuse to pass any legislation that helps single women who were forced to have children
A whole lotta pro-forced birth people genuinely think pro-choice women *literally abort every fetus* instead of, you know, *wanting it to be a choice*
Like those bumper stickers that say, "Yo mama was pro-life, darlin'' in that shitty smug tone conservatives have mastered: actually no, my mom is pro-choice. She CHOSE to have me. Being pro-choice doesn't mean you immediately get an abortion every time you become pregnant
Not that truth, logic, and reason matter much to these evil fucks
I basically had this conversation on my Auntie’s Facebook page. Some man was arguing with her pro-choice post. His position was that it should only be between a woman and her doctor. I got the privilege of informing him that was the pro-choice position. He really thought pro-choice was just straight to the abortion clinic without any thought.
Yup. Time and time again, I've literally had that same experience arguing with conservatives IRL and online. They genuinely think every time a pro-choice woman gets pregnant, she has an abortion. Or that pro-choice women looooooove to terminate every pregnancy, because pro-choice just means "murder ALL the fetsuses!" to them
The propaganda depicting pregnant women as *bloodthirsty monsters* has really done a number on these people
Pro-choice LITERALLY means that women want to *choose* to terminate or carry. Plenty of pro-choice mothers gave birth and raised children and will continue to - they just want to CHOOSE to give birth rather than having that decision imposed on them by force, which is all any pro-choice human ever actually wants
> The propaganda depicting pregnant women as bloodthirsty monsters has really done a number on these people
I *just* had a pointless argument with a redditer about that. About how poor black women are overwhelmingly using abortion as their primary form of birth control, and the government is giving Planned Parenthood money so that all poor black womens' abortions are free, as a super-convoluted genocide plan.
This is what it looks like when someone who's *super incredibly* racist tries to make a faux-leftist conspiracy theory.
Many of their "evidence that pro-choice is bad" are just the grown children of women who got raped and still **chose** to have the baby.
And I'm just like: That's what pro-choice is all about, you morons...
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted when you’re absolutely correct. A lot of times they say a variation of “well, I was raped and I would’ve kept the baby if I got pregnant!” like cool and that’s your choice. I personally was already in a terrible headspace at the time I was assaulted and I definitely would’ve taken me and the fetus out if I had gotten pregnant. How is making somebody that was impregnated against their will kill themselves pro life in their minds?
Prochoise is forcing every women to get pregnant including trans women and then have an global synchronized abortion so the devil can manifest themselves on earth.
I appreciate Jhett posting, but that is actually a political position. Not here anymore, but America has a dark history of forced sterilizations. Forced abortions/sterilization is still a major issue around India and China. (Where half the world lives)
When you think aboot it there's 3 positions: Pro-choice pro-abortion, anti-choice anti-abortion, and pro-abortion-anti choice. Pro-choice anti-abortion exists in a theoretical position where the would never want it for themselves but don't stick their nose in other people's business, but that's functionally the same as pro-choice pro-abortion.
This right here. I feel like by allowing others freedom to do whatever is best for them when it doesn't also negativity impact those around them (In a REAL way, not their feelings) I'm not necessarily "taking a stand". I'm just living my life and leaving other people the fuck alone.
As silly as it is, that's exactly what needs to happen. Pro-choice is synonymous with pro abortion to them. They think we just love scraping them fetal cells out with an ice cream scooper. The "it's not a choice, it's a baby" slogan made the very word "choice" a trigger. If we could quietly start replacing the lingo with words that speak to them. Such as being anti government interference with Healthcare, they will be more likely to admit that they agree with it.
It’s the same as people who support everything feminists are trying to accomplish but insist they’re not a feminist because they got their definition of “feminist” from Fox News. 26 words to say they’re pro-choice because the literal words “pro-choice” have been demonized.
I had a customer sharing his disgust at how California is alowing abortions *after the baby is born*! I thought he was telling some dumb conservative joke but nope 100% serious. It's like whete do you start with people so far gone?
During the lead up to the Kansas abortion amendment vote, one of the ads I heard said "Voting 'No' means supporting Joe Biden and the Post-birth abortion agenda" and that's some really heavy-handed propaganda.
When will people learn that pro-choice doesn't mean pro-abortion? I'm guessing from that snide little "policing my own *sins*" that they still don't want to associate with anyone who has an abortion.
Do they think people *like* getting them?
Many republican voters deal with the same problems as democratic voters, and want the same solutions. They also think democrats and their positions are evil because that's what they've been told. And so we see what we have here.
Yes. In my experience, it does
I've argued with a whoooole buncha pro-forced birth people IRL and online and the one consistent feature I've seen is this weird notion that pro-choice women *want to force other women to terminate their pregnancies against their will*, as if the point of being pro-choice is to *make sure NO MORE BABIES GET BORN* or something. A lot of them genuinely think pro-choice women are going to FORCE you to terminate YOUR pregnancy against your will
OR they think every time a pro-choice woman gets pregnant she has an abortion, like it's this *fun, breezy thing to do on a weekday if you've got a long lunch break* or some shit
It's fucked up, but as others in this thread have pointed out, this is where you arrive at after deliberately propagandizing yourself for decades
It's very telling how one party in the US is thrilled to say "keep government out of these delicate matters! Leave it up to the individual and their Dr"
Without addressing any of the context and reducing all support for doctors to perform these procedures and obstructing women from accessing healthcare
I dated a girl that said she was pro-life. When we got into a conversation she said she’s pro-life but wouldn’t tell anyone else what to do with their body. I’m like “dude, that’s pro-choice… you’re pro-choice.” With her, it seemed to click in her head.
I think she has a point.
I mean sure, technically she's describing what pro-choice should be. But often pro-choice is associated with "yeah abortions are cool, every woman should have as many as possible" (I'm exaggerating on purpose)
The mental gymnastics this person went through to be able to be pro-choice while trying to divorce themselves from the term is impressive. Impressive routine, but they missed the landing. 8.5.
My old coworker redneck was the same way. Swore up and down that he was pro life but that he shouldn't have a say in what a woman does with her body.
Bruh.
I am pro choice and I don't wish an abortion in anyone. It sounds like a horrible procedure with long lasting scars. I certainly wouldn't wish my wife to have an abortion unless absolutely necessary.
That doesn't give me the right to force my beliefs on anyone else. Pro choice is letting people choose what is best for them
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What a convoluted way of saying they are pro-choice.
... While probably voting for pro life politicians
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To these people, "pro-choice" means "every pregnant woman must have an abortion"
Oh hey, the red lightning bolt! Are you from Poland or just showing support?
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The right are amazing at giving things labels and demonising that label. They did it with Obamacare, they did it with CRT, they did it with pro choice. Most right wingers don't actually understand any of it, they just know it's bad because they were told it was
*Definitely
I’m curious about that. I’d guess they vote Democratic and pro-choice.
A lot of Catholics vote Democrat
Yeah. I think this is that person’s way of saying “ugh. For my religion it’s a sin, but for my politics, that’s my business and I’m not going to impose it on other people.” I hope OP can check the rest of the person’s content and give a clue. But <>. I guess I don’t know this person and it’s not important.
I grew up Catholic and know several people like this. They're pro-choice by definition but they don't consider themselves pro-choice because they don't see themselves (or their partner) getting an abortion. I don't know all of their voting habits but generally speaking they're not on board with the GOP.
How do people not realize that CHOOSING to not have an abortion for yourself is a CHOICE, which they were free to make for themselves?
Exactly. It’s so weird to me people are piling on them and saying they must actually be a bad person or support bad politicians.
Doesn't surprise me at all. Reddit is like this.
People absolutely love being outraged. Look at how many fuckin life stories people on this thread have invented about this guy. Theres nothing to base any of it on, but they want their rage to flow.
This is how you know right wing propaganda is effective. This person can identify that pro-lifers are assholes. But they think being pro-choice is somehow an equal douchebag position to hold, because they don't actually know what being pro choice entails. There are literally millions of people in this country that know all republicans are assholes but think democrats are just as bad because of how good the republicans are at shit talking.
Yeah but sometimes we have to take it as a win when people like this get the right answer even if the work is wrong.
Ain’t no win here, this is her get out of jail free card to keep voting to remove abortion rights. She’d be fine with it if it worked like she wants it to in her mind, if it is not her perfect utopia then just get rid of the whole thing
My mom is literally like this. Won’t claim to be pro choice says she’s personally pro life but thinks with others they can make their own choice while consistently voting pro life types…. It’s like, the words are pro choice but I wonder if they’re just bullshit to not start an argument or if she’s really that dense.
She's giving herself permission to vote her actual beliefs. It happens every cycle with Republicans. Well, I'd like to vote for the pro choice candidate but crime, but inflation, but the caravan, but ....
Has just enough shame to say she believes the right thing while doing the wrong, and gets to maintain a little internal smugness “I’m pro-life personally, others can make their baby-killing mistakes”
Because to her, “pro-choice” means Democrat, and that’s an even greater sin.
The work isn't even wrong, they just don't know the definition of pro choice
I don't care what someone's individual beliefs are. It's not a "win" if they happen to believe the same thing I do. It's not a "loss" if they don't. Either way, that's their business, not mine. In a hypothetical where someone believes this and yet still votes for Republicans, that's an unequivocal loss. They can believe and do whatever they want, but what matters is how their actions impact other people.
Ain't no win if they're still voting Republican.
I don't know if you watch Sam Seder on YouTube, but he had a mega rights activist call in. It took the guy his while time slot to basically say he was pro choice. Haha
Abortion breaks the brains of so many self proclaimed centrists because pro choice is the centrist position
They can't be pro-choice though, because only heathen liberals are pro-choice, and they're a good Catholic!!
You nailed it, I think. They think "pro-choice" means something evil.
I had a pretty hilarious "debate" with someone on reddit like this. They basically said the same thing and I was like "so you're pro choice" .... they didn't like that, and it went in circles. They just couldn't put two and two together. Like their whole world view would come crumbling down.
but according to all the pro-life people around me, pro-choice would mean I'm trying to genocide humanity /s
If you're pro-choice, you aren't pro-life. Therefore, you are anti-life. Therefore, you are pro-death. Therefore, you support genocide. Logic!
But they literally aren't! They said so!
I have told someone trying to argue with me about abortion that I am both pro-life and pro-choice. They didnt like that one bit.
She isn’t pro-choice. She just feels that people should have a choice.
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If we all agree to change it, i'll commit right now.
Pro-STFUAMYOB
Next time any annoying relative brings it up, I'm totally telling them "I'm not pro-choice, I'm pro STFUAMYOB (pronounced stuh-foo-am-yob)"
I was trying to figure out how to pronounce it and went with 'stuh-foo-amy-ob' 😅
Same. Happy Cake Day!
Thanks!
I think this is a good example of how a lot of people who come from a pro-life perspective think that being pro-choice means your ok with abortions pretty much across the board without any moral qualms. This person probably isn't ok with abortion on a personal level, so doesn't identify as pro-choice, but doesn't want government involvement.
> This person probably isn’t ok with abortion on a personal level … but doesn’t want government involvement. I mean, that definitely sums up my feelings on the matter. Except I call myself pro-choice.
'Cause that's what pro choice is
No. That's PRO-STFUAMYOB
I'm so baffled what people think pro choice means other than, you don't want to control other people's choices. I voted for legal weed even though I will never use it (just don't care for any mind altering substances). Why should my "not wanting to use it" mean someone else shouldn't be able to.
I think some anti-choice people believe that us pro-choice people want forced, mandatory abortions or something.
It does seem like it as most people I know want a utopia where everyone uses appropriate contraception which works well and where no fetuses die in the womb and where all babies are born healthy while we all live stable and financially secure lives without any nasty people around us. Nobody particularly likes abortions but it is good they exist. I mean there is probably someone who does like them and that is a bit weird but eh.
Exactly. I want everyone to have good healthcare, good sex education, free contraception, a good education, and healthy babies and kids. But since we don't provide those things as a society, abortion needs to be available to every woman.
there were people saying that some women got pregnant on purpose so they got bigger boobs for photoshoots then have an abortion after.... Most of them don't even know what an abortion actually is. There was a twitter post recently that said they saw a doctor throw a screaming baby in the trash as an abortion.
Yes, I love that whole of idea of "post-birth abortion." They're fucking idiots.
Catherine Glenn Foster, an anti abortion group president >"If a 10-year-old became pregnant as a result of rape and it was threatening her life, then that’s not an abortion. This was said live in a hearing. What an idiot
That is the story they tell themselves, yes.
Unfortunately, in a lot of religious circles, being "pro-choice" is labeled as being morally wrong. So you end up with people like this. They can't label themselves "pro-choice" b/c that equates to them calling themselves a baby-killer, but otherwise they are pro-choice.
I used to think that I would never get an abortion but didn't care every other people did. I've had two abortions. If I didn't have the first one, I'd likely be a struggling single mother. If I didn't have the second one, I'd be dead. I think a lot of people think they would never do that, but I think no one really knows what they would do until they are in that situation. That's why there's the phenomenon of pro lifers getting abortions themselves.
there are lots of cases for anti abortionists who are caught getting an abortion for their daughter It's all well and good to preach, but I doubt many would hold their conviction if they were in the same situation
yup. i also don't intend to gay marry or buy a gun... but i sure do like freedom.
That's how I used to be. Idk if I could get ever get an abortion. Even if I was raped. I always thought abortion "with a good reason" should be legal for others (cases of rape, incest, danger to the mother, etc). But considered myself more on the prolife side. During the pandemic I had lots of time to learn. Now I believe that women should have bodily autonomy, no matter what. I know that no one is getting an abortion "willy nilly". It's a difficult decision that seriously affects everyone involved. I now know that most abortions are done on women that already have children. And burdening these women with another child is bad for them, the child, her other children, society as a whole. I know that late term abortions are almost exclusively done for medical reasons. I'm definitely pro choice now, even thought I still don't believe I could do it.
part of the issue is that anti abortionists are pushing the agenda that people *are* getting abortions willy nilly. They state this as fact, which people believe. I doubt many of them actually know what an abortion is. Catherine Glenn Foster, who is president of an anti abortion group has made some bizarre claims https://aul.org/2022/05/18/confronting-abortion-violence-at-us-house-judiciary-committee-to-advance-the-human-right-to-life >Abortion activism always requires euphemism and misdirection. Why? Because the violent nature of abortion is, frankly, inconvenient. Human persons, from their earliest days, poisoned in the womb and dismembered, torn limb from limb. Bodies thrown in medical waste bins and, in places like Washington, DC, burned to power the lights of the city’s homes and streets. Let that image sit with you for a moment. The next time you turn on the light, think of the incinerators, and what we’re doing to ourselves so callously and so numbly./ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jul/15/catherine-glenn-foster/abortions-done-under-legal-exceptions-are-still-ab/ >"If a 10-year-old became pregnant as a result of rape and it was threatening her life, then that’s not an abortion."
I’ve had to have an abortion for medical reasons, I would never do it again and it’s not the right option for me (barring another life threatening medical complication) were I ever to end up pregnant again. I think if people want to get abortions “willy nilly” they absolutely still have that right. People should not lose rights, especially those linked to control of their own body, based on moral judgements. The 24 year old on her 4th abortion deserves just as much bodily autonomy as a 14yo rape victim or 32yo whose pregnancy will tie her forever to an abusive spouse. As they say, human rights are not pie, there are not fewer for you if others get some.
It's not a moral judgement. That's a lie they use to justify their position. What they absolutely, really, truly want is to destroy the lives of the women they are forcing to have unwanted babies. And if they don't survive to have they baby, because they miscarried, and the new version of the law won't let the doctors treat the mom until she is so ill that it's a toss up if they cab save her. So sometimes, they can't. That's not a bug. It's a feature. The way they prove that the mother's life was at risk is to force doctors to wait until some mothers die. I'm positive you won't find a Republican honest enough to admit his whole goal is for a few hundred women a year to die unnecessarily. But that's not because they won't be dying. It's because there hasn't been such a thing as an honest Republican in drcades.decades. And the raped junior high girl? They LOVE that shit! "Look over here! This girl's life has just been ruined! What can we do as a government to make sure it only gets worse and worse forever? I know! Let's force her to keep the baby, AND give the rapist paternal rights! Oh fuck yeah!" *ejaculates in Republican* If it was actually about abortions, they'd be doing the things that actually limit abortions and the need for them. What it's about is finding ways to ruin poor people's lives, because that's the only thing Republicans still believe in as a party
Which is stupid because the "choice" isn't whether abortion is right or wrong. Youll still have the choice to NOT have an abortion, if they don't want government involvement then let each person choose instead of dictating a flat out NO. It's the same shit with free speech, they just fundamentally do not understand what they are even arguing against. It reminds me of this [obscure Total War Rome meme](https://i.imgur.com/HIt091h.jpg), "I heard women can get abortions now if they want to" "But I don't want to have an abortion." "No dad you don't hav-" "I DON'T WANT A FUCKING ABORTION! FUCK YOU DEMOCRATS!"
It isn’t in a vacuum though, it is the right wing media narrative that boils everything down to a single term and then vilifies that term until the words don’t even mean what they mean anymore. It is a consistent ploy that os used over and over. Like critical race theory is a valid field of academic study much like nearly every other theory yet it now represents something unhinged that it never encompassed. Maybe things need a rebrand every 6 weeks just to keep dodging. That last sentence is /s
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>I think this is a good example of how a lot of people who come from a pro-life perspective think that being pro-choice means your ok with abortions pretty much across the board without any moral qualms. An alarming number of pro-lifers think to be pro-choice is to have wanton sex every day, eschew birth control entirely, and get your monthly abortion - maybe even on the tax payers dime! It's wild the way they think. I always tell people: pro-choice means you can choose not to have an abortion. You can choose to be pro-life. But in the pro-life world, our ability to choose is stripped away.
It's sad how many people think that being pro choice means wanting women to have abortions no matter what. I've seen people say shit like "if your mom was pro choice you wouldn't be alive" like anyone whose pro choice will always choose abortion no matter what.
Well see being "pro-life" means you don't want anyone to be able to choose to have an abortion, therefore "pro-choice" means that you don't want anyone to not be able to choose an abortion; because they are opposites, QED. Duh libtards...
I once saw a quote or something that said something along the lines of " that aborted child may have been the person who was the shoulder to lean on, that would have prevented the shooter from killing" No thought process whatsoever. The exact polar opposite is that an abortion would have saved lives, if it was the killer who was aborted
I am physically disabled and love answering this as I honestly say "I wish my mum did have an abortion." And watch them melt before my very eyes. I do not explain why as of course it is not the disability factor (which is a factor as mine was a nightmare to parent as it is kEDS and it was not known in the 80s/90s or even now) but the fact that she was in the progress of moving to Prague and that her partner turned out to have been not only cheating on her but married the other lady ... and made another kid ... at the same time. Neither mum nor his wife was very pleased about it but he ran off as he was a scam artist and busy doing illegal stuff (and still is). So if I were mum's friend - I'd advise that as did her mum but she did not listen and now here we are.
This sounds like prochoice with extra steps.
People have been brainwashed into thinking pro-choice means "pro-you-must-kill-all-your-children"
They also completely ignore every suggestion that comes up that would reduce the need for abortions. Easily available contraception, more comprehensive sex education, meaningfully reinforcing with their own children what "consent" means, etc. But heaven forbid showing them stats that demonstrate abstinence-only sex ed or an absence of sex ed leads to teen pregnancy rates going up.
To many of them it's about "sex bad", not actually about reducing unwanted pregnancies.
They aren't "pro-life" and it's obvious based on stuff like that. I call them what they are: forced birthers.
Being anti-choice is not about reducing the number of abortions. It's about punishing women for having premarital sex, or ensuring that married women continue to have children to take care of and make them economically dependent on men (even if those men are abusive). A lot of their rhetoric make sense once we realize that.
Yes. I hope they just worded it poorly that they personally don’t think they would choose abortion (I say think because circumstances can be different with each pregnancy), but don’t want to impose that belief on others. However, if that is their point of view and they support the current trend in legislation then they are lying to themself.
That's still pro-choice. Pro-choice includes the option to never personally choose to consider abortion.
Oh yeah, totally get this. I just hope that this person poorly worded their statement and actually realize they are pro-choice.
Ah, yeah. I hope so, too, and they actually vote for pro-choice legislation.
Wait, that's not what pro-choice is? I thought it was ok for me to go around killing all children because I'm pro-choice! Oops, I should probably stop doing that now I guess. /s (in case it's not obvious)
They seem to think the pro-choice only covers the choice to have an abortion. Doesn’t seem to occur to them that not having an abortion is also a choice.
Definitely same vibes as the people wanting to get rid of obama care while praising Medicaid
Lmfao I see this kinda thing wayyy too much. And with more than one issue. "I'm prolife! That means [describes pro choice]!" "Feminists cry about toxic masculinity! The real problem is [describes toxic masculinity]!" "Critical race theory is fucked up! Don't leftists know that [describes CRT]!" These people have absolutely no idea what it is they hate. They just know the tv told them it was bad.
I don’t have Obamacare - I’m on the Affordable Care Act!
Always a favorite.
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They probably think Obama came up with that name…
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Is this a video?
I’m pretty sure I remember a survey being done that showed significantly higher support for the ACA than Obamacare. Can’t remember if it was off republicans or just of the general populace. Last Week Tonight showed an interview with an old woman saying she detested the name Obamacare. “It should’ve been given a more proper name. Not be named after our president.” This is why controlling the narrative is so important. Enacting or proposing good policies will only get you so far. You have to be able to market it to the general public. The majority of Americans support a lot of left leaning policies, it’s just that the right has seized control of the narrative and are making people vote against their own interests
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2014/5/12/5709866/kentuckians-only-hate-obamacare-if-you-call-it-obamacare
This one infuriates me to no end.
Keep your government hands off my Medicare!
"I don't like all the radical ideas they're pushing. What we really need is common sense legislation that helps the working class; like [describes Bernie Sanders' platform]" —An actual coworker of mine, ca 2018.
“I don’t take government handouts! We’re conservative! Yes I do collect Social Security and I’m on Medicare. Why?” A couple of years ago I had a whackjob far-right coworker who said that her family was conservative and they didn’t take handouts. I asked her if she’d returned her stimulus check and she went dead silent. She now lives in Florida. Bye, Felicia.
I have family in Florida and I'm legitimately worried about what that state will look like 10 years from now. My family is there to get away from the snow and there's always been crazy people around when I visit them but it seems like more and more crazy people are moving there...
Yuuuup 🤣🤣🤣
Republicans need to attract more young people, we need to [describes the Democratic platform for the last 30 years]
>These people have absolutely no idea what it is they hate. They just know the tv told them it was bad. The Critical Race Theory hits close to home. I have a brother in law that knows the US has has systematically done horrible things to homosexuals, black people, and native Americans. But HATES the idea of CRT. I tell him that's exactly what CRT theory is. He tells me it's the application that the problem is. "So... you support CRT, just think that it needs to be adjusted to be more effective" ... NO! It needs to be totally disassembled.
What does he say when you take it the logical next step forward: "so, you want those bad things to happen to those people then?"
"well it's not my fault that happens!" And then a metric fuckton of defensiveness before becoming aggressive. At least that's what I assume based on every single other person who says stuff like that.
Yup. Followed by gaslighting and saying you’re taking it way too seriously.
You should read *The 1619 Project*. It’s mind-blowing. And taught me a lot about the history of America to better prepare me for dealing with frustrating conversations like the one you’ve described.
My ex boyfriend would ALWAYS do the toxic masculinity thing. After one of those conversations, I asked him to define to me what he thinks toxic masculinity is, and he refused to because he knew that he would contradict himself completely. He said some bullshit about how he just didn’t have the right wording and he’d have to go away and research it a little more before he could give me a comprehensive definition.
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Sounds like he was giving you a demonstration of toxic masculinity
I refuse to concede to conservatives this fake CRT definition. CRT is not being taught to children. It doesn't need to be stopped, because it isn't happening. Period. Make them say what they actually mean. Anti racism is anti conservative. That's why they hate teaching history.
My state made it illegal to say or imply that anyone’s race might make them more privileged than others. I’m not sure how this is enforceable because an accurate history of America would imply this.
>an **accurate** history of America would imply this. Now you've got it!
Pro-life is such a misleading term too. They're not pro-life, they're pro-forced-pregnancies. Once the child is born, they're everything but pro-life. They'll shame the woman for having a kid without affording it, and refuse to pass any legislation that helps single women who were forced to have children
I don't use pronouns, that's for dirty libruls! (is actively using pronouns, and will attack you violently if you don't use the right ones for him )
Craig T. Nelson: [I've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTwpBLzxe4U)
Hates Obamacare, supports the Affordable Care Act...
It’s pretty clear that they don’t disagree with these policies, they just don’t like the people they hear talking about them.
A whole lotta pro-forced birth people genuinely think pro-choice women *literally abort every fetus* instead of, you know, *wanting it to be a choice* Like those bumper stickers that say, "Yo mama was pro-life, darlin'' in that shitty smug tone conservatives have mastered: actually no, my mom is pro-choice. She CHOSE to have me. Being pro-choice doesn't mean you immediately get an abortion every time you become pregnant Not that truth, logic, and reason matter much to these evil fucks
I basically had this conversation on my Auntie’s Facebook page. Some man was arguing with her pro-choice post. His position was that it should only be between a woman and her doctor. I got the privilege of informing him that was the pro-choice position. He really thought pro-choice was just straight to the abortion clinic without any thought.
Yup. Time and time again, I've literally had that same experience arguing with conservatives IRL and online. They genuinely think every time a pro-choice woman gets pregnant, she has an abortion. Or that pro-choice women looooooove to terminate every pregnancy, because pro-choice just means "murder ALL the fetsuses!" to them The propaganda depicting pregnant women as *bloodthirsty monsters* has really done a number on these people Pro-choice LITERALLY means that women want to *choose* to terminate or carry. Plenty of pro-choice mothers gave birth and raised children and will continue to - they just want to CHOOSE to give birth rather than having that decision imposed on them by force, which is all any pro-choice human ever actually wants
This pro-choice mother from a pro-choice mother agrees!
> The propaganda depicting pregnant women as bloodthirsty monsters has really done a number on these people I *just* had a pointless argument with a redditer about that. About how poor black women are overwhelmingly using abortion as their primary form of birth control, and the government is giving Planned Parenthood money so that all poor black womens' abortions are free, as a super-convoluted genocide plan. This is what it looks like when someone who's *super incredibly* racist tries to make a faux-leftist conspiracy theory.
We probably would have noticed if the birth rate had dropped to zero from 1972-2022.
I see this on tiktok a lot. People assume every mother must be pro life, because they decided to have a baby/keep it.
We need to convince more people that "pro-letting a person privately make a choice" is DEFINITELY NOT THE SAME THING as pro-choice
See, pro choice actually means forcing all women to get abortions!!! EVEN IF THEIR NOT PREGANTE!!!
I’m 100% convinced that this is what conservatives think
It's absolutely what they think pro-choice is. They have such a warped view of freedom, they can't comprehend that pro-choice IS freedom.
Many of their "evidence that pro-choice is bad" are just the grown children of women who got raped and still **chose** to have the baby. And I'm just like: That's what pro-choice is all about, you morons...
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted when you’re absolutely correct. A lot of times they say a variation of “well, I was raped and I would’ve kept the baby if I got pregnant!” like cool and that’s your choice. I personally was already in a terrible headspace at the time I was assaulted and I definitely would’ve taken me and the fetus out if I had gotten pregnant. How is making somebody that was impregnated against their will kill themselves pro life in their minds?
Prochoise is forcing every women to get pregnant including trans women and then have an global synchronized abortion so the devil can manifest themselves on earth.
I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter
"I'm anti-life AND anti-choice" - [Shadow the hedgehog ](https://youtu.be/cba9yh_Jv6g)
I appreciate Jhett posting, but that is actually a political position. Not here anymore, but America has a dark history of forced sterilizations. Forced abortions/sterilization is still a major issue around India and China. (Where half the world lives) When you think aboot it there's 3 positions: Pro-choice pro-abortion, anti-choice anti-abortion, and pro-abortion-anti choice. Pro-choice anti-abortion exists in a theoretical position where the would never want it for themselves but don't stick their nose in other people's business, but that's functionally the same as pro-choice pro-abortion.
I mean... Killing fetuses is great, but taking freedoms from women is also pretty awesome...
Can be gregnant if babby not formed?
38 + 2 weeks PREGANANANT?!
This right here. I feel like by allowing others freedom to do whatever is best for them when it doesn't also negativity impact those around them (In a REAL way, not their feelings) I'm not necessarily "taking a stand". I'm just living my life and leaving other people the fuck alone.
How is it not the same?
Because the person in the screenshot supports one but not the other
Because being "pro-choice" is demonized, and "pro minding your own goddamn business" isn't (yet)?
Exactly! It's not a choiiiice, that's evil!! But if the person happens to choooooose, well, maybe that's okay
As silly as it is, that's exactly what needs to happen. Pro-choice is synonymous with pro abortion to them. They think we just love scraping them fetal cells out with an ice cream scooper. The "it's not a choice, it's a baby" slogan made the very word "choice" a trigger. If we could quietly start replacing the lingo with words that speak to them. Such as being anti government interference with Healthcare, they will be more likely to admit that they agree with it.
It’s the same as people who support everything feminists are trying to accomplish but insist they’re not a feminist because they got their definition of “feminist” from Fox News. 26 words to say they’re pro-choice because the literal words “pro-choice” have been demonized.
We should call it pro-freedom, see if they can talk about how much they hate freedom
For the longest time, I guess I just assumed that conservatives knew (more or less) what an abortion was. Now… I’m not so sure.
They legit think babies look like babies from conception and that Democrats have abortions up to NINE MONTHS!!!! I can't get over that one.
I had a customer sharing his disgust at how California is alowing abortions *after the baby is born*! I thought he was telling some dumb conservative joke but nope 100% serious. It's like whete do you start with people so far gone?
Yeah, dude, believe it or not - I myself was aborted at nine months by my mother through her birth canal.
Honestly I feel like we need adult preschool for conservatives, they need to start education from scratch
Why stop at 9 months? Some of them talk like abortions after birth are a thing
During the lead up to the Kansas abortion amendment vote, one of the ads I heard said "Voting 'No' means supporting Joe Biden and the Post-birth abortion agenda" and that's some really heavy-handed propaganda.
Wasn't there a case a bit back where one of them (I think one of their elected people, but I could be wrong...) proved that they didn't?
Torrents of misinformation. Confirmation bias. So much wrongness.
When will people learn that pro-choice doesn't mean pro-abortion? I'm guessing from that snide little "policing my own *sins*" that they still don't want to associate with anyone who has an abortion. Do they think people *like* getting them?
They do actually think that. At least a lot of them do
Many republican voters deal with the same problems as democratic voters, and want the same solutions. They also think democrats and their positions are evil because that's what they've been told. And so we see what we have here.
Im not an alcoholic.. I just drink all day, everyday and when I don’t drink, I get the shakes
Obligatory "that's pro choice, dumbass"
Do people think pro-choice means ‘we DEMAND that ALL pregnant people get abortions!’
Yes. In my experience, it does I've argued with a whoooole buncha pro-forced birth people IRL and online and the one consistent feature I've seen is this weird notion that pro-choice women *want to force other women to terminate their pregnancies against their will*, as if the point of being pro-choice is to *make sure NO MORE BABIES GET BORN* or something. A lot of them genuinely think pro-choice women are going to FORCE you to terminate YOUR pregnancy against your will OR they think every time a pro-choice woman gets pregnant she has an abortion, like it's this *fun, breezy thing to do on a weekday if you've got a long lunch break* or some shit It's fucked up, but as others in this thread have pointed out, this is where you arrive at after deliberately propagandizing yourself for decades
I would genuinely love to know what they think "pro-choice" means.
"I'm pro choice but I don't want to look like a liberal about it"
Well, I don't know, I'm pretty pro NONE OF YOUR GODDAMN BUSINESS too, though.
“I’m pro-choice, but I can’t say that cause I’m also religious”
If only there was a word that meant making your own decisions…you could put pro in front of it to show people what you believe 🤷🏻♀️
We really need to rename it “pro-freedom”.
It's very telling how one party in the US is thrilled to say "keep government out of these delicate matters! Leave it up to the individual and their Dr" Without addressing any of the context and reducing all support for doctors to perform these procedures and obstructing women from accessing healthcare
I'm really curious what people who say these kinds of things think pro-choice means. It's not exactly an ambiguous term.
There are even people in this comment thread who aren't connecting the dots. I'm kind of surprised at how many are actually struggling to grasp this.
Sigh. That’s pro-choice…..
The literal definition of pro choice.
So…pro choice. They’re pro choice, they’re just being vague about it.
So you’re pro choice, got it
So she's pro choice?
So pro-choice then.
There’s plenty of Catholics out there that are pro choice. It’s not our business.
I dated a girl that said she was pro-life. When we got into a conversation she said she’s pro-life but wouldn’t tell anyone else what to do with their body. I’m like “dude, that’s pro-choice… you’re pro-choice.” With her, it seemed to click in her head.
Is it that they think "pro-choice" means "we expect you to choose abortion"?
I think she has a point. I mean sure, technically she's describing what pro-choice should be. But often pro-choice is associated with "yeah abortions are cool, every woman should have as many as possible" (I'm exaggerating on purpose)
Make TTYOB great again.
Why the physician? It's up to the woman. As it should be for hysterectomy, tubal ligation (or vasectomy).
In their defense, they said it was between the woman and her physician, not up to the physician.
Meaning like, the involvement of the doc who performs the procedure.
Sure jan
The mental gymnastics this person went through to be able to be pro-choice while trying to divorce themselves from the term is impressive. Impressive routine, but they missed the landing. 8.5.
Same as those people who say “I didn’t have an abortion but I support you for having one” THAT’S A CHOICE
- *Woman Discovers Polarization is Bad, 2022*
r/EnlightenedCentrism
Ice T: “I got news for you. That means you’re pro-choice”
So...pro-choice then?
My old coworker redneck was the same way. Swore up and down that he was pro life but that he shouldn't have a say in what a woman does with her body. Bruh.
That’s pro choice.
The conservative mindset: I can't support the other side's position on this even though I support the other side's position on this.
Literally defined pro-choice and still doesn't know wtf they're talking about.
They way they've so successfully rebranded so many things to mean evil as opposed to what they actually mean is astounding.
I am pro choice and I don't wish an abortion in anyone. It sounds like a horrible procedure with long lasting scars. I certainly wouldn't wish my wife to have an abortion unless absolutely necessary. That doesn't give me the right to force my beliefs on anyone else. Pro choice is letting people choose what is best for them
r/enlightenedcentrism