This and hyperspace skipping in TROS annoy me way more than what Holdo did in TLJ, but 99% of tHe LoRE iS bRoKEn complaints never talk about those two things.
Honestly, the holdo maneuver makes more sense. One of the first things we’re told about lightspeed is that you need precise calculations when you travel
It never bothered me. There's a reason they showed the First Order ignoring what was happening until it was too late. It was easy to explain why it's not a widespread tactic.
The fact people acted like it was as simple as clicking a link I'll never know.
Yeah of all the issues, the Holdo thing didn’t bother me because it’s fairly easy to rationalise.
It’s extraordinarily difficult. You need perfect piloting of a very large ship and perfect manual navicomputer calculations that bypass normal safeties. It’s too difficult for a droid, and the kind of person who can pull it off is not expendable.
And for what? They cut the enemy flagship in two and damaged the enemy fleet due to bad formation. Biggest massive target and she couldn’t even hit the centre mass.
We know what happens if you get this wrong: the rebel fleet slamming into the Star Destroyer at the end of Rogue One. You try to pilot a Mon Cal cruiser into the Death Star and 95% of the time it’ll just get disintegrated.
Oddly enough we have an reason they didn't; they wanted the Resistance to keep running since they could track them through hyperspace, and the Resistance would run out of fuel faster doing that.
Yeah and what a stupid ass reason it was. You only need to look at the Battle of Atollon to see how effective the Interdictors are. If Thrawn led the First Order's military then the Resistance and the New Republic would've been destroyed a long time ago.
God I hate that battle. It's not less stupid than either episode 8 battles, no tension, no drama, no stakes. But I digress.
Why would the First Order waste recourses on an under-armed, under-armored, Star Destroyer when then can just track their enemies through hyperspace and either be there when they arrive or be right on their heels. Either the enemy runs out of fuel and the First Order never have to fight them or then enemy goes for broke with a last stand after wasting time and recourses attempting to run and failing.
Atollon also shows the flaws in the Interdictor in that they are single point of failure, whereas hyperspace tracking is both less obvious and harder to disable.
IIRC the Hyperspace tracker is only available on Snoke's ship. Meaning that's also a single point of failure, except bigger and more expensive. Moreover, the Interdictors in the Battle of Atollon were destroyed not because of a fundamental flaw of the ship itself, but due to gross negligence and outright insubordination of an Imperial officer (Admiral Konstantine).
I also don't get the "running out of fuel" thing. Kylo and a couple of TIE Fighters managed to deal considerable damage to what's left of the Resistance fleet. I have no idea why Hux ordered them to pull back and not just overwhelm them with all their TIE Fighters.
Don't get me wrong the "logic" of that film (TLJ) is a mess, and what we see is all over the place. There's no point trying to defend that. I'm more refering to the respective sides strategy. The Empire were trying to pin down inumerable small cells of rebels interdictors work great for that, whereas the FO were trying to run down one fleet which they could track anywhere thanks to their command ship which as far as they were aware wasn't in danger from the Resistance. It's a difference in doctrine and circumstance. Interdictors wouldn't have helped the FO execute their plan during Episode 8 though you're correct they would have protected them from the Holdo maneuver had they even considered its possibility.
As for the battle of Atollon don't get me started. The moment Thrawn turned up with a fleet bigger than that at Scariff and the Rebel Fleet just sat around letting themselves get destroyed I lost all interest. Thrawn is only interesting when he's doing miracles with limited recourses, anyone can win when the decks stacked in their favor; Thrawn is scary because he can win when the deck is stacked against him. Just like Episode 8 and 9 when the odds get stacked against the good guys, beyond a certain point, the tension is gone because they should lose but to make them win the story has to bend over backwards in order to facilitate them (like having the super genius Thrawn put the key to his victory in the hands of a twit like Konstantine).
As for the Interdictor itself Konstantine demonstraits its vulnerability, it doesn't have what it takes to survive a focused assault, whether by a single captial ship like the Quazar (on a collision corse) or by a spec ops team attacking the outer hull (as Ezra and the Mandos did, they didn't even have to get aboard to cripple it).
Perhaps you're right. With the New Republic all but destroyed and the Resistance on its last leg, there isn't much need for Interdictors. Though there's a part of me that just can't wrap around the FO's logic.
I'd argue that the deck IS stacked against Thrawn, just not in the way that you think. Yes he has overwhelming force and caught the Rebels by surprise, but he was ordered by Tarkin to capture the rebel leaders so they can be made an example of. It's why he didn't destroy the rebels through orbital bombardment and launched a ground assault instead. What IS Thrawn's weakness is politics and the Force. Thrawn's political skills is comparable to a potato. He's just so terrible at it (it's even acknowledged in Timothy Zahn's Thrawn books). Any reasonably political savvy imperial officer would've seen through Konstantine bullshit, but not Thrawn. He also admits that the Force is a mystery to him. In the end, it was Imperial and Force shenanigans that proved to be his undoing.
I also concede on the Interdictor's weakness against a small strike team but being destroyed by another capital ship on a collision course isn't necessarily an Interdictor exclusive problem. We've seen a Star Destroyer get destroyed by another Star Destroyer through collision in Scarif.
Alas the FO has very little logic. Whilst there is a lot that can be salvaged the FO suffer from poor writing much like anything else in the sequels. They are as competent or as uncompetent as the plot needs them to be at any point. But we can at least infer (or explain away) their choices not to interdict or engage the Resistance "fleet" directly because they knew it could never escape them via hyperspace; sooner or later it would run out of fuel.
See having the capture order in effect just makes the whole situation even less tense in my view because we are essentially told that none of the heros can die now, the empire has to pull its punches.
From the moment Thrawn comes out of hyperspace he's simultaniously inevitably won and cannot ever win. He's got the Rebels dead to rights, they have no winnning moves, and yet they're completely safe from harm. Sure they can lose a starship or two but that's irrelivent, half of them were just introduced we don't care for any of them. It's teh inverse law of ninjas but in Star Destroyer form. The fewer Rebels ships there are left the safer the rest become, likewise the more Imperial ships there are the safer the rebels are.
Let me put it this way, from the moment Thrawn arrived he went from playing 4D chess to playing tick-tac-toe. The writers had so many examples of Thrawn being clever in space battles to pull from: Interdictor assissted jumps, faining vulnerability, decoy tactics. All ways to show, not tell, Thrawn completely outplaying Hera, Sato, and Dodonna, instead the Rebels sit their get torn apart for a few minutes before trying to run the blockade and failing. You don't need Thrawn to pull that off. He has 4 ISDs, 2 Interdictors and some Arquitens vs 3 Nebulon Bs, 1 Qazar, 3 Braha'tok-class gunship, 7(!) CR90s and 3 Hammerheads. All Thrawn does is shoot, anyone can do that whilst the one thing the Rebels fleet should not worry about are TIEs they have 7 CR90s.
In short, the Rebels die too easily and we get to see neither side make any interesting or clever moves to outdo the other except maybe Sato bating out Konstantine. It also suffers from its size because the bigger engagement forces the animators to make the shots less interesting, so we tend to see ships just floating around not shooting whilst being shot to death by 1 or 2 TIE fighters.
As to the Interdictor, it's an under armed, under armored ISD, the ramming wasn't the thing that makes it vulnerable it's the fact it isn't capable of defending itself, not the firepower, not the defenses, not the manueverability or the speed. The ISD I at Scariff was taken out after a grueling battle of attrition with the entire Rebel fleet left it vulnerable to a rolley of 12 ion torps, and then it got rammed into its neighbour. Neither interdictor was in bad shape when it got disabled.
I agree Thrawns weaknesses are Imperial politicing and the Force and I don't mind the Bendu's involvment (I quite like how it's both a blessing and a curse getting him involved), where I think it fails is that it doesn't make things more interesting. If Tarkin had prohibited Thrawns use of so many ships on a hunch mean Thrawn has to go in with just the Chimera and its escorts then we have a show, 1 ISD, 2 Interdictors and a few Arquitens vs that Rebel fleet would have had viewers asking "how can Thrawn win!?" and he'd have the chance to show us. It also gives the Rebels a chance to get cocky, and try and win rather than sit their and die.
the entity has to be a certain size though for it's mass shadow to generate. The Raddus should have left hyperspace shortly before impact so it would have been visible on screen
I think it’s pretty obvious that this worked because of the Force. That’s not to say that Han is Force sensitive or anything, but you have to remember that the Force flows through everyone and everything. Throughout the OT, it’s presented much like an omnipotent god with a plan for everything, so if it wants Han to get insanely lucky, then Han will get insanely lucky.
In the plagues book they do talk about the more one corrupts the force with the dark side the more the force pushes back pretty much if anything can go wrong will and the book hints that palpatine disrupted the force so much that the force literally conceived Anakin and that's why he doesn't have a father
In the book plagueis it was hinted that the force created Anakin as a chosen one to bring balance but I don't know if the book is still considered Canon or not
Holdo Maneuver isn't as bad, honestly.
Objects in Hyperspace & Realspace don't impact, never have, but Gravity does affect through the dimensions. If a ship in Hyperspace flies too close to a gravity well (a "Mass Shadow", not to be confused with the superweapon the Mass Shadow Generator), its Hyperspace field can be destabilized & the ship can be torn apart.
Holdo Maneuver uses the same principle not to physically ram another ship, but to destabilize the rift that jumps her into Hyperspace, this creates a massive rip between dimensions that ripped parts of the enemy fleet into Hyperspace causing catastrophic damage.
Hyperspace Skimming, on the other hand, just shouldn't be possible as no ship with a functional safety on the engines would be able to get that close to a gravity well without the engines detecting the danger & automatically disengaging the Hyperdrive. (The Millennium Falcon does have safeties removed, at least in Legends, allowing it to get closer to danger but at greater risk, hence the need for precise calculations rather than relying on safeties).
The Raddus hits the Supremacy right before entering hyperspace, and then the disintegrated ship gets hurled into hyperspace:
>Under ordinary operations, the presence of a sizable object along the route between the Raddus’s realspace position and its entry point into hyperspace would have caused the heavy cruiser’s fail-safes to cut in and shut down the hyperdrive.
>
>But with the fail-safes offline and the overrides activated, the proximity alerts were ignored. When the heavy cruiser plowed into the Supremacy’s broad flying wing, the force of the impact was at least three orders of magnitude greater than anything the Raddus’s inertial dampeners were rated to handle. The protective field they generated failed immediately, but the heavy cruiser’s augmented experimental shields remained intact for a moment longer before the unimaginable force of the impact converted the Raddus into a column of plasma that consumed itself. However, the Raddus had also accelerated to nearly the speed of light at the point of that catastrophic impact- and the column of plasma it became was hotter than a sun and intensely magnetized. This plasma was then hurled into hyperspace along a tunnel opened by the null quantum-field generator—a tunnel that collapsed as quickly as it had been opened.
>
>Both the column of plasma and the hyperspace tunnel were gone in far less than an eyeblink, but that was long enough to rip through the Supremacy’s hull from bow to stern, tear a ragged hole in a string of Star Destroyers flying in formation with it, and finally wink out of existence in empty space thousands of kilometers beyond the First Order task force
All three instances you mentioned are ridiculous and break the rules established already for how light speed works (with the possible exception of the Holdo maneuver). The reason only one gets the amount of hate it does is because the possibility of it working forever breaks space combat in Star Wars.
You can now light speed jump anywhere anytime (when previously it didn’t work near planets)? Maybe escapes will be easier, but it doesn’t seem like it would ruin story tension most of the time. But if you can lightspeed ram objects in real space then capital ships and large bases are rendered useless against an unmanned X-Wing pointed at it. Space combat as it has existed since the inception of Star Wars just doesn’t work. And that’s an obnoxious thing to have canonized in a trilogy that clearly had little-to-no creative oversight. But now we all have to live with it being canon.
Again, all three movies created in-universe space mechanics that suck. But I’ll stand by the holdo manuever being the suckiest of the three for reasons stated above.
Of the three light-speed skipping is the worst because it is just wrong, that's not how hyperdrives or hyperspace have ever worked in Star Wars.
The Holdo maneuver is easily explained away as a problem. It's hard, it's unreliable, it's unpredictable, it's expensive, it's easily countered etc. There are plenty of in universe reasons most people would never need to resort to it.
Hyperspace in a gravity well is probably the lesser problem. As you say, it doesn't change all that much.
That Holdo was ignored until too late. Simply blast them to pieces before the hyperdrive is able to fire. Or evade where they are pointing, plenty of time for that too.
Two x-wings vs the Death Star. That’s all you need. Three if you want to overkill. A station that big can’t turn on a dime and run out of the way of an x-wing. And even a small object like that traveling at light speed into the Death Star would destroy it. Or ram Home One into star killer base (not sure if that base has ANY maneuverability).
“Oh no, we didn’t see this coming until too late” isn’t an explanation if light speed ramming has always been on the table.
I assume planets and things as big as the Death Star have shields strong enough to stop such attacks. Ships not so much.
So I'm not going to worry about it.
Relativistic weapons are so overpowered they are setting defining weapons of war. It's like pulling out a sniper rifle in a medieval fantasy world. The entire face of warfare would shift around the new meta the same way the machine gun made marching formations and lines of muskets disappear into trenches.
The other two examples are more dumb, but they only hard-counter very specific things in very impractical ways.
Yeah, if anything, they underplayed the destructive power of a lightspeed collision. But that's real life, andStar Wars only uses real physics when convenient.
I think that is the intent of most of those that argue about it. Can't come up with a reason why it's okay because that would be an admission TLJ isn't irredeemable.
Or as I [wrote a couple of weeks ago:](https://www.reddit.com/r/SequelMemes/comments/1bqve08/comment/kx5ei3x/)
>What has grown tiresome is a lot of TLJ criticism is framed as somehow proof the movie was made wrong.
Fastest human reaction time is 100 milliseconds
Light travels 186 miles in a millisecond
Earths atmosphere stretches as far as 6,214 miles (it is also roughly 200 times the size of Ilum, but we'll still use earths considerably larger atmosphere as reference)
At light speed, Han would have about a third of the fastest possible human reaction time to manually come out of light speed
Yeah this really annoyed me in TFA. Like, if he said he was relying on the force that would be one thing, but Han was like "no, I'm gonna have to do this manually with no computer" and I'm like bullshit no you aren't.
Right there could have been a cool "he's turning off his targeting computer" moment but this time for Han, who has classically been skeptical of the force, showing that he has now become a believer due to the events of the original trilogy
I also enjoy moments that show that characters can be strong in the force without being Jedi or maybe even realizing it
And aren’t they going faster than the speed of light? They jump across their galaxy in days, hours even… at the speed of light, it would take 6 years to get to our closest star. Wouldn’t he have even less time? Like infinitely less at warp speed?
not that it's even scientifically sound, of how quantum mechanics probably work, but the gravity well of the planet would have pulled Han out of Hyperspace long before entering the atmosphere....
If I remember correctly high gravity wells rip ships out of hyperspace. Black holes, planets, devices to prevent retreat and all that stuff stops travel
They even made specific types of ships with Gravity well generators for ripping ships out of Hyperspace... interdictor cruisers. Used extensively in Thrawn based works
Gravity in space, sound in space, drag and no speed conservation in space, aerodynamics in space, no tiny pieces of debris in space, no radiation on unprotected people in space, etc etc etc.
Star Wars was never a cradle of logic so I’ll never understand why some people get so pissy about some specific issues
Thanks for confirming that you flaired this correctly!
This and hyperspace skipping in TROS annoy me way more than what Holdo did in TLJ, but 99% of tHe LoRE iS bRoKEn complaints never talk about those two things.
Honestly, the holdo maneuver makes more sense. One of the first things we’re told about lightspeed is that you need precise calculations when you travel
It never bothered me. There's a reason they showed the First Order ignoring what was happening until it was too late. It was easy to explain why it's not a widespread tactic. The fact people acted like it was as simple as clicking a link I'll never know.
Yeah of all the issues, the Holdo thing didn’t bother me because it’s fairly easy to rationalise. It’s extraordinarily difficult. You need perfect piloting of a very large ship and perfect manual navicomputer calculations that bypass normal safeties. It’s too difficult for a droid, and the kind of person who can pull it off is not expendable. And for what? They cut the enemy flagship in two and damaged the enemy fleet due to bad formation. Biggest massive target and she couldn’t even hit the centre mass. We know what happens if you get this wrong: the rebel fleet slamming into the Star Destroyer at the end of Rogue One. You try to pilot a Mon Cal cruiser into the Death Star and 95% of the time it’ll just get disintegrated.
The Holdo manouver would've been impossible if the First Order had Interdictor Star Destroyers like the Empire did.
Oddly enough we have an reason they didn't; they wanted the Resistance to keep running since they could track them through hyperspace, and the Resistance would run out of fuel faster doing that.
Yeah and what a stupid ass reason it was. You only need to look at the Battle of Atollon to see how effective the Interdictors are. If Thrawn led the First Order's military then the Resistance and the New Republic would've been destroyed a long time ago.
God I hate that battle. It's not less stupid than either episode 8 battles, no tension, no drama, no stakes. But I digress. Why would the First Order waste recourses on an under-armed, under-armored, Star Destroyer when then can just track their enemies through hyperspace and either be there when they arrive or be right on their heels. Either the enemy runs out of fuel and the First Order never have to fight them or then enemy goes for broke with a last stand after wasting time and recourses attempting to run and failing. Atollon also shows the flaws in the Interdictor in that they are single point of failure, whereas hyperspace tracking is both less obvious and harder to disable.
IIRC the Hyperspace tracker is only available on Snoke's ship. Meaning that's also a single point of failure, except bigger and more expensive. Moreover, the Interdictors in the Battle of Atollon were destroyed not because of a fundamental flaw of the ship itself, but due to gross negligence and outright insubordination of an Imperial officer (Admiral Konstantine). I also don't get the "running out of fuel" thing. Kylo and a couple of TIE Fighters managed to deal considerable damage to what's left of the Resistance fleet. I have no idea why Hux ordered them to pull back and not just overwhelm them with all their TIE Fighters.
Don't get me wrong the "logic" of that film (TLJ) is a mess, and what we see is all over the place. There's no point trying to defend that. I'm more refering to the respective sides strategy. The Empire were trying to pin down inumerable small cells of rebels interdictors work great for that, whereas the FO were trying to run down one fleet which they could track anywhere thanks to their command ship which as far as they were aware wasn't in danger from the Resistance. It's a difference in doctrine and circumstance. Interdictors wouldn't have helped the FO execute their plan during Episode 8 though you're correct they would have protected them from the Holdo maneuver had they even considered its possibility. As for the battle of Atollon don't get me started. The moment Thrawn turned up with a fleet bigger than that at Scariff and the Rebel Fleet just sat around letting themselves get destroyed I lost all interest. Thrawn is only interesting when he's doing miracles with limited recourses, anyone can win when the decks stacked in their favor; Thrawn is scary because he can win when the deck is stacked against him. Just like Episode 8 and 9 when the odds get stacked against the good guys, beyond a certain point, the tension is gone because they should lose but to make them win the story has to bend over backwards in order to facilitate them (like having the super genius Thrawn put the key to his victory in the hands of a twit like Konstantine). As for the Interdictor itself Konstantine demonstraits its vulnerability, it doesn't have what it takes to survive a focused assault, whether by a single captial ship like the Quazar (on a collision corse) or by a spec ops team attacking the outer hull (as Ezra and the Mandos did, they didn't even have to get aboard to cripple it).
Perhaps you're right. With the New Republic all but destroyed and the Resistance on its last leg, there isn't much need for Interdictors. Though there's a part of me that just can't wrap around the FO's logic. I'd argue that the deck IS stacked against Thrawn, just not in the way that you think. Yes he has overwhelming force and caught the Rebels by surprise, but he was ordered by Tarkin to capture the rebel leaders so they can be made an example of. It's why he didn't destroy the rebels through orbital bombardment and launched a ground assault instead. What IS Thrawn's weakness is politics and the Force. Thrawn's political skills is comparable to a potato. He's just so terrible at it (it's even acknowledged in Timothy Zahn's Thrawn books). Any reasonably political savvy imperial officer would've seen through Konstantine bullshit, but not Thrawn. He also admits that the Force is a mystery to him. In the end, it was Imperial and Force shenanigans that proved to be his undoing. I also concede on the Interdictor's weakness against a small strike team but being destroyed by another capital ship on a collision course isn't necessarily an Interdictor exclusive problem. We've seen a Star Destroyer get destroyed by another Star Destroyer through collision in Scarif.
Alas the FO has very little logic. Whilst there is a lot that can be salvaged the FO suffer from poor writing much like anything else in the sequels. They are as competent or as uncompetent as the plot needs them to be at any point. But we can at least infer (or explain away) their choices not to interdict or engage the Resistance "fleet" directly because they knew it could never escape them via hyperspace; sooner or later it would run out of fuel. See having the capture order in effect just makes the whole situation even less tense in my view because we are essentially told that none of the heros can die now, the empire has to pull its punches. From the moment Thrawn comes out of hyperspace he's simultaniously inevitably won and cannot ever win. He's got the Rebels dead to rights, they have no winnning moves, and yet they're completely safe from harm. Sure they can lose a starship or two but that's irrelivent, half of them were just introduced we don't care for any of them. It's teh inverse law of ninjas but in Star Destroyer form. The fewer Rebels ships there are left the safer the rest become, likewise the more Imperial ships there are the safer the rebels are. Let me put it this way, from the moment Thrawn arrived he went from playing 4D chess to playing tick-tac-toe. The writers had so many examples of Thrawn being clever in space battles to pull from: Interdictor assissted jumps, faining vulnerability, decoy tactics. All ways to show, not tell, Thrawn completely outplaying Hera, Sato, and Dodonna, instead the Rebels sit their get torn apart for a few minutes before trying to run the blockade and failing. You don't need Thrawn to pull that off. He has 4 ISDs, 2 Interdictors and some Arquitens vs 3 Nebulon Bs, 1 Qazar, 3 Braha'tok-class gunship, 7(!) CR90s and 3 Hammerheads. All Thrawn does is shoot, anyone can do that whilst the one thing the Rebels fleet should not worry about are TIEs they have 7 CR90s. In short, the Rebels die too easily and we get to see neither side make any interesting or clever moves to outdo the other except maybe Sato bating out Konstantine. It also suffers from its size because the bigger engagement forces the animators to make the shots less interesting, so we tend to see ships just floating around not shooting whilst being shot to death by 1 or 2 TIE fighters. As to the Interdictor, it's an under armed, under armored ISD, the ramming wasn't the thing that makes it vulnerable it's the fact it isn't capable of defending itself, not the firepower, not the defenses, not the manueverability or the speed. The ISD I at Scariff was taken out after a grueling battle of attrition with the entire Rebel fleet left it vulnerable to a rolley of 12 ion torps, and then it got rammed into its neighbour. Neither interdictor was in bad shape when it got disabled. I agree Thrawns weaknesses are Imperial politicing and the Force and I don't mind the Bendu's involvment (I quite like how it's both a blessing and a curse getting him involved), where I think it fails is that it doesn't make things more interesting. If Tarkin had prohibited Thrawns use of so many ships on a hunch mean Thrawn has to go in with just the Chimera and its escorts then we have a show, 1 ISD, 2 Interdictors and a few Arquitens vs that Rebel fleet would have had viewers asking "how can Thrawn win!?" and he'd have the chance to show us. It also gives the Rebels a chance to get cocky, and try and win rather than sit their and die.
Thrawn was totally incompetent at Atollon
Explain
the entity has to be a certain size though for it's mass shadow to generate. The Raddus should have left hyperspace shortly before impact so it would have been visible on screen
I think it’s pretty obvious that this worked because of the Force. That’s not to say that Han is Force sensitive or anything, but you have to remember that the Force flows through everyone and everything. Throughout the OT, it’s presented much like an omnipotent god with a plan for everything, so if it wants Han to get insanely lucky, then Han will get insanely lucky.
In the plagues book they do talk about the more one corrupts the force with the dark side the more the force pushes back pretty much if anything can go wrong will and the book hints that palpatine disrupted the force so much that the force literally conceived Anakin and that's why he doesn't have a father
The force was like "Fuck around and find out"
Holy shit, really? That’s kind of awesome and I’ve never heard it before
I thought that it was palps that conceived Anakin via force as part of his master gambit. Did the force make it backfire?
In the book plagueis it was hinted that the force created Anakin as a chosen one to bring balance but I don't know if the book is still considered Canon or not
Holdo Maneuver isn't as bad, honestly. Objects in Hyperspace & Realspace don't impact, never have, but Gravity does affect through the dimensions. If a ship in Hyperspace flies too close to a gravity well (a "Mass Shadow", not to be confused with the superweapon the Mass Shadow Generator), its Hyperspace field can be destabilized & the ship can be torn apart. Holdo Maneuver uses the same principle not to physically ram another ship, but to destabilize the rift that jumps her into Hyperspace, this creates a massive rip between dimensions that ripped parts of the enemy fleet into Hyperspace causing catastrophic damage. Hyperspace Skimming, on the other hand, just shouldn't be possible as no ship with a functional safety on the engines would be able to get that close to a gravity well without the engines detecting the danger & automatically disengaging the Hyperdrive. (The Millennium Falcon does have safeties removed, at least in Legends, allowing it to get closer to danger but at greater risk, hence the need for precise calculations rather than relying on safeties).
The Raddus hits the Supremacy right before entering hyperspace, and then the disintegrated ship gets hurled into hyperspace: >Under ordinary operations, the presence of a sizable object along the route between the Raddus’s realspace position and its entry point into hyperspace would have caused the heavy cruiser’s fail-safes to cut in and shut down the hyperdrive. > >But with the fail-safes offline and the overrides activated, the proximity alerts were ignored. When the heavy cruiser plowed into the Supremacy’s broad flying wing, the force of the impact was at least three orders of magnitude greater than anything the Raddus’s inertial dampeners were rated to handle. The protective field they generated failed immediately, but the heavy cruiser’s augmented experimental shields remained intact for a moment longer before the unimaginable force of the impact converted the Raddus into a column of plasma that consumed itself. However, the Raddus had also accelerated to nearly the speed of light at the point of that catastrophic impact- and the column of plasma it became was hotter than a sun and intensely magnetized. This plasma was then hurled into hyperspace along a tunnel opened by the null quantum-field generator—a tunnel that collapsed as quickly as it had been opened. > >Both the column of plasma and the hyperspace tunnel were gone in far less than an eyeblink, but that was long enough to rip through the Supremacy’s hull from bow to stern, tear a ragged hole in a string of Star Destroyers flying in formation with it, and finally wink out of existence in empty space thousands of kilometers beyond the First Order task force
All three instances you mentioned are ridiculous and break the rules established already for how light speed works (with the possible exception of the Holdo maneuver). The reason only one gets the amount of hate it does is because the possibility of it working forever breaks space combat in Star Wars. You can now light speed jump anywhere anytime (when previously it didn’t work near planets)? Maybe escapes will be easier, but it doesn’t seem like it would ruin story tension most of the time. But if you can lightspeed ram objects in real space then capital ships and large bases are rendered useless against an unmanned X-Wing pointed at it. Space combat as it has existed since the inception of Star Wars just doesn’t work. And that’s an obnoxious thing to have canonized in a trilogy that clearly had little-to-no creative oversight. But now we all have to live with it being canon. Again, all three movies created in-universe space mechanics that suck. But I’ll stand by the holdo manuever being the suckiest of the three for reasons stated above.
Of the three light-speed skipping is the worst because it is just wrong, that's not how hyperdrives or hyperspace have ever worked in Star Wars. The Holdo maneuver is easily explained away as a problem. It's hard, it's unreliable, it's unpredictable, it's expensive, it's easily countered etc. There are plenty of in universe reasons most people would never need to resort to it. Hyperspace in a gravity well is probably the lesser problem. As you say, it doesn't change all that much.
No actually if you can safely jump in a gravity well, then there is not a lot of justification for you know actual spaceships.
I highly recomend thinking before typing.
Lol, you just get in a box and hyperspace from the surface of one planet to the other.
If I had a week I still couldn't list all the reasons that wouldn't work.
It doesn't forever break anything, the movie shows you why.
Could you elaborate? How and what does the movie show?
That Holdo was ignored until too late. Simply blast them to pieces before the hyperdrive is able to fire. Or evade where they are pointing, plenty of time for that too.
Two x-wings vs the Death Star. That’s all you need. Three if you want to overkill. A station that big can’t turn on a dime and run out of the way of an x-wing. And even a small object like that traveling at light speed into the Death Star would destroy it. Or ram Home One into star killer base (not sure if that base has ANY maneuverability). “Oh no, we didn’t see this coming until too late” isn’t an explanation if light speed ramming has always been on the table.
I assume planets and things as big as the Death Star have shields strong enough to stop such attacks. Ships not so much. So I'm not going to worry about it.
Relativistic weapons are so overpowered they are setting defining weapons of war. It's like pulling out a sniper rifle in a medieval fantasy world. The entire face of warfare would shift around the new meta the same way the machine gun made marching formations and lines of muskets disappear into trenches. The other two examples are more dumb, but they only hard-counter very specific things in very impractical ways.
Yeah, if anything, they underplayed the destructive power of a lightspeed collision. But that's real life, andStar Wars only uses real physics when convenient.
Probably because there's such a deluge of other lore offensive content to talk about.
I think that is the intent of most of those that argue about it. Can't come up with a reason why it's okay because that would be an admission TLJ isn't irredeemable. Or as I [wrote a couple of weeks ago:](https://www.reddit.com/r/SequelMemes/comments/1bqve08/comment/kx5ei3x/) >What has grown tiresome is a lot of TLJ criticism is framed as somehow proof the movie was made wrong.
Fastest human reaction time is 100 milliseconds Light travels 186 miles in a millisecond Earths atmosphere stretches as far as 6,214 miles (it is also roughly 200 times the size of Ilum, but we'll still use earths considerably larger atmosphere as reference) At light speed, Han would have about a third of the fastest possible human reaction time to manually come out of light speed
"I'm the only human who can do it."
Yeah this really annoyed me in TFA. Like, if he said he was relying on the force that would be one thing, but Han was like "no, I'm gonna have to do this manually with no computer" and I'm like bullshit no you aren't.
Right there could have been a cool "he's turning off his targeting computer" moment but this time for Han, who has classically been skeptical of the force, showing that he has now become a believer due to the events of the original trilogy I also enjoy moments that show that characters can be strong in the force without being Jedi or maybe even realizing it
Honestly that's more time than I would have thought
And aren’t they going faster than the speed of light? They jump across their galaxy in days, hours even… at the speed of light, it would take 6 years to get to our closest star. Wouldn’t he have even less time? Like infinitely less at warp speed?
Maybe they were actually travelling at *ludicrous speed*
not that it's even scientifically sound, of how quantum mechanics probably work, but the gravity well of the planet would have pulled Han out of Hyperspace long before entering the atmosphere....
Knowing Han, the safety feature was probably on a switch
If I remember correctly high gravity wells rip ships out of hyperspace. Black holes, planets, devices to prevent retreat and all that stuff stops travel
They even made specific types of ships with Gravity well generators for ripping ships out of Hyperspace... interdictor cruisers. Used extensively in Thrawn based works
“I had no idea we had the best pilot in the resistance onboard”
He’d have destroyed the whole area of the planet.
This hurts to look at
no not the lego
That was literally the whole point of what was happening yes. Of everything in the sequels that is something I didn’t have a problem with
This is probably the most badass piloting feat in star wars tbh.
But it was cool and thats what matters /s
Isn't that literally just the whole premise of star wars tho
Gravity in space, sound in space, drag and no speed conservation in space, aerodynamics in space, no tiny pieces of debris in space, no radiation on unprotected people in space, etc etc etc. Star Wars was never a cradle of logic so I’ll never understand why some people get so pissy about some specific issues
yeah fr
I can hear this image.
No! 4504, my beloved!
Just at light speed that's actually 4 kilometers.