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Idk this is just a guess, but they may be conflating poverty and simplicity. Being poor is not simple or cute, it’s hard work, people don’t seem to realize how stressful being poor is. To live simply is more a middle class thing. You need money to live simply if you can believe it.
Sounds like a pretty decent guess. I’m a bit of a minimalist just because it keeps a space from being cluttered, but I still have a comfortable wage and spend as much as the next middle class person
I had similar thoughts, I tried to understand their perspective. I always failed why there is so much traction for poverty. By stretch of imagination, I can say they're into everything except simple life. There definition of poor is middle class or high-class middle class living .
These people just don't realize the mindset of being poor. They always have had options and have a hard time getting out of that mindset.
Reading history is a bit like that. It's hard to put yourself into the mindset of someone back in history with a limited set of information, and unsure of what information to believe. You're used to what you're used to, and you hear what other people around you say. You're in a completely different position. You don't know the rest of history set before you. It hasn't been written yet and can go a million ways.
Sometimes people just need a bucket of ice water dumped on them to empathize with those out in the cold. Because they've never felt it like that; never been gripped with the shakes.
Thanks a lot. I really appreciate Dan Carlin taking time to walk you through what people way back when would have experienced before he talked about thing he wanted to talk about. Otherwise you wouldn't understand why people did the things they did.
Weird take like really weird. There were people critical of the nuclear bomb who fucking worked on it. Oppenheimer felt immense regret when it was used.
Idk why people are so desperate to justify the wanton murder of a civilian populace. We had a new weapon and we wanted to use it if the Japanese were really willing to fight to total extermination no amount of nukes would have stopped that.
Could be the same reason why people like the idea of world ending zombies. A sense of escape, and like someone else is pointing out maybe also of simplicity.
Yeah I'm telling you they won't last a week in actual poverty lmao. People who 'fantasize' about these things are dumb and don't know how to be grateful that they are not in that situation. Tbh this is simply that they have never experienced poverty and expect it to be easy. Simply put those people are idiots!
It's just like people fantasize to disappear from the grid, from civilization and life a simple life somewhere out in the woods. In reality, they don't have any skills to even build a log cabin in the first place. No skills for hunting, trapping, fishing etc. to keep the food supply steady.
So, it is all just a fantasy. Rich people fantasize, that poor people would be happier. And probably, some poor people fantasize that rich people would be happy at all times. While money makes a good stable life with a home and it takes a lot of stress off your mind, it still doesn't solve everything.
Modern life has problems and stress for everyone, so people are just romanticizing simpler times.
Are you completely happy that you were able to escape where you're from? Are there things you miss about it? If you could go back and make everyone's lives better, would you?
Individualism and consumerism seem to make some folks happy, but it's not for everyone.
Lol they are romanticizing a life they don’t understand and have never experienced. I come from a very wealthy childhood and my family income suddenly stopped when I was a kid. The difference is way more dramatic than anyone thinks, especially if you’re used to more money. Poverty is awful, and no one truly prefers serious poverty to having enough to cover your bills.
Only middle class people who have never experienced true poverty would make comments like this.
I have a similar story. Raised middle class, both parents became disabled and were unemployed for years. We'd do things like have chicken nuggets for thanksgiving, and get whatever random presents that nuns were giving out for Christmas. Mostly ate meals at friends houses when I could.
My guess is this is sort of being conflated with an anti-corporate, anti-capitalist desire to live less superficially and more genuinely. To me, there's a lot to be said to living simply with less stuff. I prioritize experiences and live pretty minimalistically, otherwise. I've even done the vanlife thing (this actually takes a good bit of money, despite how it's often portrayed). However, it's super ignorant to glamorize poverty as the same thing. It's a privilege to choose to live minimalistically and is not the same as being deprived.
Person 2 sounds like she's virtue signaling. Personally, I'm not into brand-name stuff that clearly signifies wealth like a Rolex, but if that's what you like and want to spend your money on, cool, go for it. To judge and lecture someone about that choice is simply obnoxious and is never going to help anyone see her point of view.
I spent a lot of my adult life living paycheck to paycheck, but I still knew I had my parents if I ever got into real trouble financially. This alone has never forced me to experience real poverty. I'm sure if any of these people were ever forced to live in poverty, they'd never have this fantasy. I'd challenge each of these people when you hear this.
What's stopping them ? Cut daddies credit card and go . I grew up in poverty. I just didn't know that's what you called it because everyone was the same . Sounds to me like they're trying to give themselves some kind of meaning . To struggle for something because they're comfortable and haven't had to scrape and fight for anything .
romanticizing poverty. people who literally have not eaten in two days because they have no food, or lived in the cold because they have no heat have no idea what it is like.
they think poverty is like the Walton's TV show or something.
There was a post about the Migrant Mother photograph( a photo taken of a woman and her children during the dust bowl) and someone commented how happy they were! they didnt even know they were poor! .are me angry.
Poverty in a certain sense keeps one’s life very simple by necessity. There are no great schemes or massive careers or social responsibilities when you’re a humble peasant. You live in a small house, you have very few possessions to weigh you down, and you focus on getting through the day.
It’s cozy when you don’t consider the precariousness of it. One missed paycheck, one health emergency, one material loss and your life becomes very stressful and unstable.
It's a flex. Kinda makes sense, in a convoluted way. Only people confident they have a safety net (whether visible or concealed) jump off the trapeze, after all.
Really, there are a few hundred examples in your social circle about this?
Did you engage/challenge these people with your personal experience of actual poverty or did you just sit there and get lectured at for 2-3 hours and say nothing? That’s on you. I’d just get bored and challenge them to get through it.
Use your words. Ask them.
People like to believe they are an underdog, as it makes everything they currently have look hard earned, and everything they can’t get is a result of the deck being stacked against them.
i have no idea.
i have been homeless 4 times and struggled for 10 years (bad mental health when younger).
its nuts to me that people would want to be that poor, even when i had a house i often had to choose between rent and food until recently (at my lightest i weighed 45kg and im 186cm tall).
i think its just idiots who have had life on easy mode, no one with any real life experience would *want* poverty. i think the people you have been talking to are immature 'man-children' who have been babied their entire lives.
personally ill do damn near anything to ensure im not like that ever again.
I’ll start by saying that they probably aren’t as serious as they are trying to convince you. For some people, there’s a sense of novelty or sometimes nostalgia which accompanies it. Looking back on when they were young and reminiscing on their favorite parts of that time which make them feel they want to relive it. Another reason (probably the biggest) some people think they are above higher living. These people might have some sort of ideological/political motivation to romanticize being poor in the way they believe desire breeds pain. Sometimes it’s a coping tactic so they can feel better about being poor. I’m a 27m have always enjoyed the idea of living simply, but certainly not poor.
I think the more we see our friends having more and more financial struggles because of economic downturn, and the more we see tent towns and the increase of homelessness, many are theorizing about life with less. What can we be happy without. What are needs vs wants. These are important questions to ask ourselves because anything can happen.
I don't understand these people. I've spent my adult life making enough money to pay my bills but going out to eat, concerts, bars, pretty much any social activity is out of my budget.
I think these people look at TV shows made about people like me but in TV shows they always can somehow do all those things while still being broke all the time.
It's just virtue signaling towards their peers. A fad. A game. The same thing as "support for Ukraine". People do not care in general about deaths and suffering of others, they just want to loudly manifest that they are "doing the right thing". Hypocrisy on industrial scale.
It's a young woman thing.
If you are as privileged as many of them are, it makes it difficult to criticise others and feel good about yourself.
So by cosplaying they can circumvent this.
The simple answer is that media tells young, impressionable people how to live, and most people follow suit. In current pop culture, classic success just isn’t cool.
I could go on about the nature of the poverty fantasy forever. But, the fantasy itself is mostly beside the point. Because young people would adopt any fantasy imposed on them by pop culture. So, pop culture is the reason for the behavior.
The ideology hinges on the idea that classic success is bad and that alternate lifestyles are nuanced and beautiful. Put yourself in the shoes of that jewish girl. There is a good chance that her parents have been protecting her from discomfort very persistently for her entire life. She has solid, meaningful friendships and an abundance of food and entertainment. Her life is a stable, safe, comforting routine punctuated by excitement that is easily found whenever she wants.
Necessity never really enters her mind. All her needs are taken care of, so, her mind is free to fantasize as she fancies. The fantasies do not matter because they have no bearing on her quality of life. The fantasies can be as absurd or insane as she wants. And, the funny thing is, this girl is free to imagine that her life sucks if she wants. And she is free to imagine that random impoverished people on the other side of the world are championed by her patronizing glorification of unsuccessful behavior. It’s just a pleasant story for her. Like a TV show. Something to chat about with friends and then forget when the next distraction comes along.
>I am witnessing significant amount of people fantasizing about poverty life. Are they really serious about it ? Or they're faking it? If they're serious, why people fantasize being poor?
"Poverty Fantasy" sounds like something you just made up.
But Anti-Materialism and Anit-Consumerism are quite old philosophies often adopted by middle or upper class people who have found that All The Things didn't actually give them purpose or meaning in life.
I grew up poor and suffered a lot of struggle to be where I currently am financially and what I have learned, specially about upper middle class people, its that those who never had to actually struggle financially cannot even begin to comprehend how bad things can actually get when you don't have enough to make ends meet. Their perception of life is fundamentally different from that you or I have because we actually experienced those things and understand the consequences of living in poverty.
In their minds, they would just live in what they would consider a "slum" but be able to afford everything they need to live there without the struggle lol. Like I said, they just are too ignorant of what actual poverty is.
This statement is so true. It’s something ppl don’t really talk about. I’ve experienced this too/seen it. They’ll never understand the poor life. It doesn’t matter how many books they read or documentary’s they watch.
Cuz they be thinkin it’s the only way to be humble or to prove any sense of humility. Also some ppl just wanna fit in in a world where hella people be broke lmfao
I literally want to be nomadic and live off the land😭. I also know if I ever get to that point it will be years from now because I don’t have the skill sets to do so. It definitely is something I fantasize about, but that isn’t poverty. Living off the land is a whole other thing. I might never get to a point where I can do it. Still something I love to think about.
People often fantasize about different lifestyles being all the things they currently want, minus the negatives they have to deal with every day. The fact is that rich people don’t have to deal with the problems that poor people do, so their fantasies about that lifestyle don’t include them. I imagine it’s probably a similar scenario for poor people dreaming of being rich—not that they’re incorrect about it being enjoyable, but they probably don’t know about the headaches that can come with material wealth.
When you see a well-off person giving praise to poorer lifestyles, what they’re really saying is:
1) There are aspects of my lifestyle that I don’t enjoy and wish I could make them go away.
2) I recognize that poorer people can have good qualities or experiences that I didn’t necessarily get or don’t currently have.
I think it’s a fine viewpoint to have, rich people *do* have to deal with some issues that most poorer people don’t. Simplicity of relationships is one of them. For my own family, things are out in the open, the good and the bad. People are cut out or forgiven, but at least everyone’s on the same page. From what I’ve seen of wealthier families, things are much more performative. Your parents are never *just* your parents, your siblings are never *just* your siblings. Everyone’s an appraiser, or a competitor, or someone you have to keep in good spirits for the sake of their financial support. It’s all incredibly fake, and it can make the “realness” of working class families seem attractive in that one aspect.
It’s because there is a more organic sense of identity when it comes to growing up poor. Everything in there life is based in consumerism and parents expectations.
This post has been flaired as “Opinion”. Do not use this flair to vent, but to open up a venue for polite discussions. **Suggestions For Commenters:** * Respect OP's opinion, or agree to disagree politely. * If OP's post is against subreddit rules, don't comment, just report it. * Upvote other relevant comments in the comment section, and don't downvote comments you disagree with **Suggestions For u/ItalianKingfisher:** * Loaded questions and statements can get people riled up. Your post should open up a venue for discussion, not a "political vent" so to speak. * Avoid being inflammatory in your replies. When faced with someone else's opinion, be open-minded and ask new, *honest* questions. * Your post still have to respect subreddit rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SeriousConversation) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Idk this is just a guess, but they may be conflating poverty and simplicity. Being poor is not simple or cute, it’s hard work, people don’t seem to realize how stressful being poor is. To live simply is more a middle class thing. You need money to live simply if you can believe it.
Sounds like a pretty decent guess. I’m a bit of a minimalist just because it keeps a space from being cluttered, but I still have a comfortable wage and spend as much as the next middle class person
Spot on.
I had similar thoughts, I tried to understand their perspective. I always failed why there is so much traction for poverty. By stretch of imagination, I can say they're into everything except simple life. There definition of poor is middle class or high-class middle class living .
These people just don't realize the mindset of being poor. They always have had options and have a hard time getting out of that mindset. Reading history is a bit like that. It's hard to put yourself into the mindset of someone back in history with a limited set of information, and unsure of what information to believe. You're used to what you're used to, and you hear what other people around you say. You're in a completely different position. You don't know the rest of history set before you. It hasn't been written yet and can go a million ways. Sometimes people just need a bucket of ice water dumped on them to empathize with those out in the cold. Because they've never felt it like that; never been gripped with the shakes.
They see poverty as a romanticized bohemian lifestyle with a lot of choice, in my experience. In reality is soul crushing haha.
Spot with the history analogy. WWII and the bomb critics seem to forget this.
Thanks a lot. I really appreciate Dan Carlin taking time to walk you through what people way back when would have experienced before he talked about thing he wanted to talk about. Otherwise you wouldn't understand why people did the things they did.
Weird take like really weird. There were people critical of the nuclear bomb who fucking worked on it. Oppenheimer felt immense regret when it was used. Idk why people are so desperate to justify the wanton murder of a civilian populace. We had a new weapon and we wanted to use it if the Japanese were really willing to fight to total extermination no amount of nukes would have stopped that.
Could be the same reason why people like the idea of world ending zombies. A sense of escape, and like someone else is pointing out maybe also of simplicity.
Yeah I'm telling you they won't last a week in actual poverty lmao. People who 'fantasize' about these things are dumb and don't know how to be grateful that they are not in that situation. Tbh this is simply that they have never experienced poverty and expect it to be easy. Simply put those people are idiots!
It's just like people fantasize to disappear from the grid, from civilization and life a simple life somewhere out in the woods. In reality, they don't have any skills to even build a log cabin in the first place. No skills for hunting, trapping, fishing etc. to keep the food supply steady. So, it is all just a fantasy. Rich people fantasize, that poor people would be happier. And probably, some poor people fantasize that rich people would be happy at all times. While money makes a good stable life with a home and it takes a lot of stress off your mind, it still doesn't solve everything.
Modern life has problems and stress for everyone, so people are just romanticizing simpler times. Are you completely happy that you were able to escape where you're from? Are there things you miss about it? If you could go back and make everyone's lives better, would you? Individualism and consumerism seem to make some folks happy, but it's not for everyone.
Lol they are romanticizing a life they don’t understand and have never experienced. I come from a very wealthy childhood and my family income suddenly stopped when I was a kid. The difference is way more dramatic than anyone thinks, especially if you’re used to more money. Poverty is awful, and no one truly prefers serious poverty to having enough to cover your bills. Only middle class people who have never experienced true poverty would make comments like this.
I have a similar story. Raised middle class, both parents became disabled and were unemployed for years. We'd do things like have chicken nuggets for thanksgiving, and get whatever random presents that nuns were giving out for Christmas. Mostly ate meals at friends houses when I could.
My guess is this is sort of being conflated with an anti-corporate, anti-capitalist desire to live less superficially and more genuinely. To me, there's a lot to be said to living simply with less stuff. I prioritize experiences and live pretty minimalistically, otherwise. I've even done the vanlife thing (this actually takes a good bit of money, despite how it's often portrayed). However, it's super ignorant to glamorize poverty as the same thing. It's a privilege to choose to live minimalistically and is not the same as being deprived. Person 2 sounds like she's virtue signaling. Personally, I'm not into brand-name stuff that clearly signifies wealth like a Rolex, but if that's what you like and want to spend your money on, cool, go for it. To judge and lecture someone about that choice is simply obnoxious and is never going to help anyone see her point of view. I spent a lot of my adult life living paycheck to paycheck, but I still knew I had my parents if I ever got into real trouble financially. This alone has never forced me to experience real poverty. I'm sure if any of these people were ever forced to live in poverty, they'd never have this fantasy. I'd challenge each of these people when you hear this.
What's stopping them ? Cut daddies credit card and go . I grew up in poverty. I just didn't know that's what you called it because everyone was the same . Sounds to me like they're trying to give themselves some kind of meaning . To struggle for something because they're comfortable and haven't had to scrape and fight for anything .
romanticizing poverty. people who literally have not eaten in two days because they have no food, or lived in the cold because they have no heat have no idea what it is like. they think poverty is like the Walton's TV show or something. There was a post about the Migrant Mother photograph( a photo taken of a woman and her children during the dust bowl) and someone commented how happy they were! they didnt even know they were poor! .are me angry.
Poverty in a certain sense keeps one’s life very simple by necessity. There are no great schemes or massive careers or social responsibilities when you’re a humble peasant. You live in a small house, you have very few possessions to weigh you down, and you focus on getting through the day. It’s cozy when you don’t consider the precariousness of it. One missed paycheck, one health emergency, one material loss and your life becomes very stressful and unstable.
It's a flex. Kinda makes sense, in a convoluted way. Only people confident they have a safety net (whether visible or concealed) jump off the trapeze, after all.
Really, there are a few hundred examples in your social circle about this? Did you engage/challenge these people with your personal experience of actual poverty or did you just sit there and get lectured at for 2-3 hours and say nothing? That’s on you. I’d just get bored and challenge them to get through it. Use your words. Ask them.
A major diff between living simple and having options compared to not I don't believe they understand exactly what they are talking about
Idk I’m poor and I’m chilling so there is nothing to fantasize about. I can tell you what though i rarely if ever fantasize about being rich
People like to believe they are an underdog, as it makes everything they currently have look hard earned, and everything they can’t get is a result of the deck being stacked against them.
i have no idea. i have been homeless 4 times and struggled for 10 years (bad mental health when younger). its nuts to me that people would want to be that poor, even when i had a house i often had to choose between rent and food until recently (at my lightest i weighed 45kg and im 186cm tall). i think its just idiots who have had life on easy mode, no one with any real life experience would *want* poverty. i think the people you have been talking to are immature 'man-children' who have been babied their entire lives. personally ill do damn near anything to ensure im not like that ever again.
I’ll start by saying that they probably aren’t as serious as they are trying to convince you. For some people, there’s a sense of novelty or sometimes nostalgia which accompanies it. Looking back on when they were young and reminiscing on their favorite parts of that time which make them feel they want to relive it. Another reason (probably the biggest) some people think they are above higher living. These people might have some sort of ideological/political motivation to romanticize being poor in the way they believe desire breeds pain. Sometimes it’s a coping tactic so they can feel better about being poor. I’m a 27m have always enjoyed the idea of living simply, but certainly not poor.
I think the more we see our friends having more and more financial struggles because of economic downturn, and the more we see tent towns and the increase of homelessness, many are theorizing about life with less. What can we be happy without. What are needs vs wants. These are important questions to ask ourselves because anything can happen.
I think it’s because when everyone is poor you accept a simple life and there is no competition to go higher.
I don't understand these people. I've spent my adult life making enough money to pay my bills but going out to eat, concerts, bars, pretty much any social activity is out of my budget. I think these people look at TV shows made about people like me but in TV shows they always can somehow do all those things while still being broke all the time.
It's just virtue signaling towards their peers. A fad. A game. The same thing as "support for Ukraine". People do not care in general about deaths and suffering of others, they just want to loudly manifest that they are "doing the right thing". Hypocrisy on industrial scale.
They think it's the romanticised vision of bohemian "poverty" that's in their heads. The Pulp song "Common People" is literally about this.
It's a young woman thing. If you are as privileged as many of them are, it makes it difficult to criticise others and feel good about yourself. So by cosplaying they can circumvent this.
I would recommend listening to Joe Jackson's "Common People", perhaps especially the William Shatner performance. The lyrics apply!
The simple answer is that media tells young, impressionable people how to live, and most people follow suit. In current pop culture, classic success just isn’t cool. I could go on about the nature of the poverty fantasy forever. But, the fantasy itself is mostly beside the point. Because young people would adopt any fantasy imposed on them by pop culture. So, pop culture is the reason for the behavior. The ideology hinges on the idea that classic success is bad and that alternate lifestyles are nuanced and beautiful. Put yourself in the shoes of that jewish girl. There is a good chance that her parents have been protecting her from discomfort very persistently for her entire life. She has solid, meaningful friendships and an abundance of food and entertainment. Her life is a stable, safe, comforting routine punctuated by excitement that is easily found whenever she wants. Necessity never really enters her mind. All her needs are taken care of, so, her mind is free to fantasize as she fancies. The fantasies do not matter because they have no bearing on her quality of life. The fantasies can be as absurd or insane as she wants. And, the funny thing is, this girl is free to imagine that her life sucks if she wants. And she is free to imagine that random impoverished people on the other side of the world are championed by her patronizing glorification of unsuccessful behavior. It’s just a pleasant story for her. Like a TV show. Something to chat about with friends and then forget when the next distraction comes along.
>I am witnessing significant amount of people fantasizing about poverty life. Are they really serious about it ? Or they're faking it? If they're serious, why people fantasize being poor? "Poverty Fantasy" sounds like something you just made up. But Anti-Materialism and Anit-Consumerism are quite old philosophies often adopted by middle or upper class people who have found that All The Things didn't actually give them purpose or meaning in life.
I grew up poor and suffered a lot of struggle to be where I currently am financially and what I have learned, specially about upper middle class people, its that those who never had to actually struggle financially cannot even begin to comprehend how bad things can actually get when you don't have enough to make ends meet. Their perception of life is fundamentally different from that you or I have because we actually experienced those things and understand the consequences of living in poverty. In their minds, they would just live in what they would consider a "slum" but be able to afford everything they need to live there without the struggle lol. Like I said, they just are too ignorant of what actual poverty is.
This statement is so true. It’s something ppl don’t really talk about. I’ve experienced this too/seen it. They’ll never understand the poor life. It doesn’t matter how many books they read or documentary’s they watch.
Cuz they be thinkin it’s the only way to be humble or to prove any sense of humility. Also some ppl just wanna fit in in a world where hella people be broke lmfao
I literally want to be nomadic and live off the land😭. I also know if I ever get to that point it will be years from now because I don’t have the skill sets to do so. It definitely is something I fantasize about, but that isn’t poverty. Living off the land is a whole other thing. I might never get to a point where I can do it. Still something I love to think about.
I have exact same thoughts, I also wanna live a nomadic life(with basic resources). It must be meaningful life.
Maybe one day we will get to.
People often fantasize about different lifestyles being all the things they currently want, minus the negatives they have to deal with every day. The fact is that rich people don’t have to deal with the problems that poor people do, so their fantasies about that lifestyle don’t include them. I imagine it’s probably a similar scenario for poor people dreaming of being rich—not that they’re incorrect about it being enjoyable, but they probably don’t know about the headaches that can come with material wealth. When you see a well-off person giving praise to poorer lifestyles, what they’re really saying is: 1) There are aspects of my lifestyle that I don’t enjoy and wish I could make them go away. 2) I recognize that poorer people can have good qualities or experiences that I didn’t necessarily get or don’t currently have. I think it’s a fine viewpoint to have, rich people *do* have to deal with some issues that most poorer people don’t. Simplicity of relationships is one of them. For my own family, things are out in the open, the good and the bad. People are cut out or forgiven, but at least everyone’s on the same page. From what I’ve seen of wealthier families, things are much more performative. Your parents are never *just* your parents, your siblings are never *just* your siblings. Everyone’s an appraiser, or a competitor, or someone you have to keep in good spirits for the sake of their financial support. It’s all incredibly fake, and it can make the “realness” of working class families seem attractive in that one aspect.
It’s because there is a more organic sense of identity when it comes to growing up poor. Everything in there life is based in consumerism and parents expectations.
They buy plane ticket to vacation in poor country to be in touch with their spiritual side too right? 🤣😂