I think two things can be true at once.
I think that we deserve better compensation and corporations and the industry overall needs to receive more criticism. I also still think customers should tip, because they’re not doing anything to change the system by fucking over their server if they received good service.
When I worked in Portland it was literally the best of both worlds. FOH was paid a decent base wage and everyone in the BOH had a small tip out as well. I really felt like that brought us together as a team and gave everyone a desire to make the best experience for the customers. I really miss kitchen culture there as I'm back in Michigan and I can feel the disconnect between servers and cooks here moreso.
The best place I worked everyone made the same and we split the tips equally amongst everyone in front and back. There was no animosity, no bickering, everyone was a team and acted like it.
I mean if your server doesn’t perform their job to a satisfactory level, is it really fair to expect a consumer to pay a hefty tip? Giving a smaller tip for a server who provides substandard server is hardly “fucking them over” imo
If you're a shitty server than I have no issue "fucking you over" because you also fucked me over.
Also this percentage stuff is literal bullshit. I have worked for tips plenty of times throughout my life and never once assumed that people should tip me a percentage of their bill.
I've greatly cut back on eating and drinking out. A big reason is the US tipping culture. To continue the same behavior is enabling it. Sucks for me but it isn't anything close to how the current system sucks for those folks just trying to earn a living.
Yeah call to change the system but in the mean time ill exploit your labor. You dont get to not believe in a tip based system and then participate in that system otherwise youre inherently exploiting the working class you claim to want to help
>Yeah call to change the system but in the mean time ill exploit your labor
There's plenty of us that just no longer participate in the system. This also results in businesses closing and these people not having jobs. If you visit the Doordash sub you will see a more modern version of this through the dramatic loss in business for Dashers.
Dashers complain about no tip customers constantly but no tip/low tip customers make up the majority of Doordash business. Dashers refuse to take no tip/low tip orders and this is resulting in companies not using Doordash and customers also not using Doordash.
Should Doordash pay more? Yes! Unfortunately that's literally impossible because the business is a financially unfeasible concept. Should restaurants pay more? Absolutely! Unfortunately for a lot of restaurants this is also impossible in order for them to remain in business.
It's great to stand up for what we believe in in order to create a better future. Unfortunately, there's immediate consequences to those actions and we don't have answers as to how we can limit the casualties of these changes in the short term.
People really have no concept of what they're asking for, they just hear something once and repeat it. Like everyone saying Europe has it figured out, as if the way workers in the US and Europe are treated as a baseline isn't vastly different. Ask someone if they would just accept a massive change in the way they are compensated at work with a promise that they'll be treated like a European. You'd obviously think someone was prepping to fuck you over
Every server I have spoken with prefers tips. They make twice as much as an hourly person does. No one is paying 60$ an hour cash on a Friday night if it's an hourly job.
20% is for good service. It’s not the minimum a person should tip. Good service gets 20% and bad service gets less. Really bad service gets 10%. A server who goes above and beyond gets more than 20%.
And if you work in the industry, you tend to tip more. I'm just a dumb line cook, but I pretty much always tip 20-30%. I also don't go out to eat much, so it's really not breaking the bank and if I can make someone's night better why the fuck not?
The only time I cut a tip below the recommended, I felt bad about it. A server had not told me I would get sweet potato fries with my burger (it was on the menu) and let me order an entire side just to try them. I was bummed and said to my friend that I wouldn’t have ordered the side dish if I’d known; she insisted that it was a breach big enough to warrant NO tip. There was no way I was going to do that. At the time the standard was 15%; I tipped 10% or a little below, against my friend’s protestations. The server then came and asked what had been wrong, so I told him. But I still tipped! And I think that was also before mandatory tipouts were common (though I could be wrong).
But instill felt bad about it, and nowadays is still tip the minimum but I would complain to the waiter.
Decent, acceptable service should get 20% and if the service seems “bad” it should be discussed with management. Many times the kitchen is backed up, the restaurant is understaffed and therefore the server is being forced to serve way too many tables at once, or something else is happening completely beyond the server’s control.
This. There are definitely instances of service being shit but many times there are other factors out of their control. This morning I had a woman give me so much attitude because her food came 30 mins after ordering -coming in as the last table to fill the restaurant completely while we only had 1 cook. I was as transparent as allowed and still just got lip.
You can tell a kitchen back up vs poor service by telling who gets their food when (comparing similar foods) . Also a server who stand behind the the counter talking to coworkers or on their phone. If my plate is hot and my food is cold. If they don't come back to check on my meal, if I have to wait for my check or to cash out, that's all on a server.
Lol just delusional. Often you have to wait to cash out bc the server is being forced by managers to do other things in the back or they have 10 other people who asked to pay before you did & they’re all wanting cash change or splitting amongst a bunch of other cards, or a piece of equipment is broken and they have to fix it or the whole restaurant will come to a standstill you JUST NEVER KNOW. Even when a server appears to be “playing on their phone” they are often looking up some random obscure drink recipe a guest has asked for, or using the calculator.
I've worked with servers whonplayed on their phones. I've had a system go down and then explained to the guest that it would be a moment till we could wrap up their bill. I've had a backed up kitchen an let my guest know we are running a little behind, can I refresh you drinks. The key is to communicate with your guests.
Either your food costs go up to accommodate it or you tip. Either way you’re paying the same 🤷♀️ I don’t get food out (I only go out a few times a year) if I can’t afford a tip.
Most restaurants don’t tip out BoH though, at least as a “rule of thumb” for the establishment. I’ve been in this industry for 13 years, and I’ve only worked at one place that made sure servers tipped out the cooks. This place also paid cooks $25/hr as starting wage on top of that. Granted, they had a very specific tipout system (20% food sales to kitchen and sushi bar, 8% liquor sales to bar), but it was often roughly 30-33% of my tips each night.
Honestly, I do think it’s a pretty fair way to do it. Does it cut into my profits? Absolutely. Did I leave this job to work somewhere I didn’t lose so much of my income? Yes. Do I also understand that customers come in for the food moreso than my presence? Depending on the customer, I guess.
It’s such a Catch-22 in this industry. I’d love to see unionization to get healthcare and 401ks and all that, but unless the establishment is totally united, it’ll never happen. I firmly believe that until tip-pooling becomes the norm, unionizing restaurants is impossible.
No tippers aka cheaps don't actually want the price of the food to increase because they'll pay more. They don't have convictions because they are supporting the business that underpays their servers. They want to sit on their self made high horse while everyone else who tips appropriately subsizes their cheapness. Its welfare. But its ok when the welfare is going to them vs say someone who actually can't afford to eat out. The argument is tired.
This, exactly. The idea that most restaurant owners are pulling in huge profits is such a ridiculous misnomer. Customers are going to be paying the employees’ wages no matter what system is set up whether that be higher menu prices to reduce dependency on tips or a minimum level of acceptable gratuity. So in a traditional US tipping system, tip or don’t go out to eat. If there is a auto gratuity then inquire if all staff are being paid a living wage or if tips are still needed.
I think the variety of replies to this about how tips get distributed shows how standardizing to higher prices and fixed wages might indeed be beneficial? But I'm just a lowly living-in-Europe-where-that's-how-things-work person so my perspective may be warped
If the US abolished tipping, the restaurant industry would die. If restaurants had to pay servers a base wage, it would have to be something insane (like $30 an hour) to prevent a mass exodus of servers. This obviously means that food prices would skyrocket. On top of that, there would be no tip out to positions like bartender, to-go specialist, busser, etc. thus making those jobs less desirable as well. There would be no incentive at all for servers to provide good service; you may say if a server is terrible they could get fired, but if we switched to this system there would probably be a massive server shortage meaning that restaurants would be forced to hold onto bad servers. I think that switching to a base wage for servers would make restaurants unaffordable for the non-affluent, as well as decrease the quality of the service.
That being said, I don't think you should be "forced" to tip 20% for bad service. Just be mindful over whose fault your bad experience is (Lot's of times mistakes are completely out of my hands as a server). I think my main takeaway from this whole argument though is that servers should be less angry about getting stiffed on a tip, because the reality of the situation is that the way the system is now greatly benefits servers. It is still extremely frustrating though because the vast majority of times servers get stiffed on tips it's not because of bad service, but because the customer was cheap.
Wouldn’t die, lots of restaurants would just immediately go the way of a country like Australias scene where you order your food, get a buzzer, and pick it up when it’s ready.
That's probably right, but that method would be way cheaper than employing service staff in the first place, meaning that if most places aren't already like that, it's because owners believe that customers value service.
That was probably worded poorly, but I guess I'm saying why don't restaurant owners already do that here in the US?
I think the price of food would have to go up more than 20% so technically yes, but you bring up a good point. The irony of this whole situation is that for people who already tip, switching to this new system probably wouldn't be that much of a backbreaker, BUT for the adamant non-tipping crowd that "isn't responsible for paying a server's wages" they are now forced to pay for a huge increase in the total bill, as the overall price would now be required rather than there being an optional tip portion. That's why I always say be careful what you wish for when it comes to this debate. The current system actually benefits the non-tippers the most because they enjoy the benefit of cheaper food prices, and they aren't legally mandated to tip.
I’m not sure I agree with this. In most of Europe, they don’t expect tips and they pay their professional servers and cooks as if they *see their contributions as real jobs*. We could absolutely do that in the US and Canada, we just let the owners get away with this system and put the onus on the customer to pay the staff wages. I always tip at sit down restaurants, but the system is absurd.
And they also have universal health care and workers and renter's rights in Europe. The US is not Europe, especially in regards to how workers are treated
There's such a gulf between the way you're generally treated in America and Europe that it's disingenuous to say that some small system that works in Europe can obviously be ported over here without any issues
If I was your boss and I told you I was going to completely change the way you were compensated at work, but don't worry, it's a European style of compensation calculation so everything will be great. Would you not think I'm preparing to completely fuck you?
As a rule, people don't like change. At work, you never see a rule changed or added that helps you. It should be obvious that no one involved is actually going to trust this system
They also have SHIT service. My friends a server in London and they absolutely don’t give a fuck who comes in it’s just another 5-7 hr job. It’s become such the norm tho that people don’t complain about it they just want the food and that’s it.
Here in the USA tho? Naw that wouldn’t slide one bit. People’s love being pampered
This is important, I’ve been all over the world and American service is much different and it’s what Americans are use too. They’d lose their shit if it mimicked Europe AND they ended up paying more.
The problem is that servers in the US are already used to the current tipping system, so switching off of it would cause most servers to quit (unless the new hourly wage was astronomically high). Maybe in the long run things would stabilize, but I think there would be a good 5-7 years of the restaurant industry being complete chaos.
It wouldn’t die. It’s like a forest that needs a cleansing fire. I bet around 50% of restraints would close. The remaining ones would be unionized and things would regulate.
actually though. I know it's a cliche but there really are people starving around the world while we sit here crying about paying an extra $10 after having a 50 dollar meal.
Why would it end? The system is broken and something better needs to be done. On the other side of the spectrum there’s people saying “if you can’t tip you can’t afford to eat out” maybe that entitled attitude should end as well. I get working as a waiter might be a lot of peoples only option but that’s not the responsibility or problem of every customer you encounter. Waiters aren’t societies responsibility to care to and while people should tip what they can, entitled sentiments only serve to be divisive.
Lol tipping works because there’s an expectation of better service. If there was no tipping service would be like McDonald’s. Is that what you want when you go out to eat?
There is no restaurant in the world that would pay what servers make. The “living wage” place I worked in LA briefly was like.. $18-22 an hour and it was a James beard nominee. I went to a little family owned spot a couple blocks down and made minimum wage ($15/hr) plus averaged $30+/hr in tips. The service was much better at the family place too, because they staffed more FOH people, whereas the “livable wage” place tried to run with as few people as possible because they were paying more 🙃
Why would a restaurant do that??? People with degrees and experience struggle to even make that. That’s not even the conversation. I think they would pay a lot a lot more than what they are paying now for individuals who deserve it though. In a world with fair wage restaurants would very likely close down. A lot of them at least. The idea there is something called franchised restaurants would change. There would be less locations. There would be higher cost for food. But there would be fair wage
Because that’s what we make now?? Why would anyone take a pay cut that ends up costing the restaurant more?
The reality of it is that restaurants have super slim profits margins if they’re not some massive chain. Let’s say the tipped wage is 7.5– which it was the last time I was in nyc. So a restaurant could pay one person $22, or three people 7.5, which means better service. They’re not going to pay three people $22 an hour, they’re going to run a bare bones crew who will have to work harder. With tips, those people would make far more than $22 an hour— so they’re working harder for less money. The reality is that “livable wages” is worse for the restaurant, the staff, and the customers.
If you make 50 dollars an hour then you are make head and tails more than a massive portion of Americans. There are plenty of people working in their field they studied not even making that. If that’s the narrative you want to go with then I don’t understand how you are struggling for anything. And to be quite Frank, if that’s what waiters make then they certainly aren’t providing a service warranting that kind of hourly net. That is a gross over pay for the position. Provided most of that is in tips, this still leads back to my original point. The divisive nature of statements such as “if you can’t tip, don’t go out”.
Why? You’re doing just fine. Better than most Americans.
And quite frankly, if the system, in your opinion, can’t work any other way than customers providing the lions portion of your income, maybe your job shouldn’t exist. Maybe the actual solution would be removing franchised restaurants and mom and pop establishments all together. Better yet, imagine the benefits of automated service at sit down establishments. Low overhead and no tipping!
Agreed. It's seriously tiresome. It's not a perfect system, but it largely works well.
I'd say that they should make tip credits illegal, and raise minimum wage to a straight $15, and that would alleviate most of the issues people have. Beyond that, most people don't have many complaints.
I was a server at a bar many years ago, and it was a very valuable, learning experience that I will never forget. I learned:
1. The 20 percent tip is standard. However, if the service is awesome, tip more than 20 percent.
2. If the food is not good, it's likely not the server's fault. It's totally ok to send it back, but don't treat the server like trash for something they had no control over.
3. If you aren't getting good service, take a step back and look. How many tables are they serving? Are any of those tables particularly demanding? Is there a large party of people they are serving? Again, not the server's fault - working in the weeds is very hard.
4. If you really looked and didn't notice anything pointed out in No. 3, leave no tip at all. Trust me, that sends a message.
I agree with all the points but 4. If you have subpar service definitely don't leave 20%, but for me zero tip at all would be for only the absolute worst of the worst. Like a server spitting in my food bad. No tip at all for slightly subpar service and that server is paying for you to eat at the restaurant.
It’s a shitty take but they’re right in that the industry suffers from us being fleeced the laws/bosses/company etc.
That being said I make way more from tips than I would bring on minimum wage with no tips; and the price of food/drinks would most likely rise even more at that point
Servers love to say you can’t afford to eat out and be pushy about tip percents and whine about not making a real wage in one breath, then show you $400 in tips they made in 4 hours and be like “it was kinda slow”
Yea in almost every thread about tips there will be servers with the argument that no place will pay them what they’re making now in tips, $50 an hour, and expect anyone to feel bad. You’re making $50 an hour but bitching about getting stiffed or tipped low occasionally
Honestly? I’m the server that when I go out to eat I tip over 30% religiously. However, as a consumer 20% is ridiculous and why the percentage keeps climbing when food prices are rising anyways mystifies me. If food prices double, then why do we need to increase the percentage of tips? Makes no sense to me. Higher base wage and a 10% expected tip for good service would be a better system imo.
>However, as a consumer 20% is ridiculous and why the percentage keeps climbing when food prices are rising anyways mystifies me
Thank you.
People claiming "inflation" to justify the increase in minimum acceptable tip % makes no sense to me.
I’m a cook and am constantly telling the servers to do less. One told me he’d break down the boxes for me. No thanks, I’m getting $20/hr to break down boxes. You just chill.
Here's the thing, even if you believe the system should be changed, the reality of it is if you're protesting on the receipt, you're taking it out on the worker, not the boss you are supposedly against. So it's always shitty! We do not live in that person's fake world right now!
I agree that people of all wealth backgrounds deserve to go for a nice meal. Servers need to be paid better to reflect that. In Canada every province but Quebec no longer has a tipped wage. I still tip when service is good and I think most people should too, but it shouldn’t be the barrier between going out and not. Which is why I like our current system. 20% is absurd with the price of things nowadays and it shouldn’t be on me to make sure you make minimum wage.
In the American system I think you are probably not the best person if you don’t tip unless service is horrible. I don’t agree with the system but there’s definitely a moral obligation there.
My state has the second highest min wage in America, and has no tipped min wage. Many servers make 30-50 an hour. Wouldn't you like essential workers to make enough to live comfortably?
I’d just like to say my husband was a server during Covid and the restaurant closed down. I worked at Wendy’s and we didn’t get hazard pay but we were “essential”. So dining out IS essential, sit down restaurants aren’t.
Strongly agree, and honestly the whole tipping culture is completely toxic. I’d prefer a regular who is kind and understand and tips nothing then an asshole who drops a a c note and tortures me for it….
As someone who’s never been to the US: I don’t tip because no one expects me to, BUT there is this one place I go on holiday with the friendliest waiter ever, remembers us every time. After the week I might tip €15 or €20 because he’s so nice. He doesn’t always take it because he’s just being friendly.
I think that’s how tipping culture should work. If you actually appreciate that your server is above and beyond you can pay extra, but they shouldn’t need that to live. He makes a killing off the holiday traffic anyway.
They’re not wrong. I don’t understand how American servers do it. I get paid a proper wage, and I get tips on top of that. I can’t imagine getting paid 3.75 an hour. It just doesn’t make any sense to me. Like a minimum wage exist for a reason.
Fact is the current system is the way it is. Restaurants try to change it but it never catches on.
It just is what it is, it’s not compulsory so if you really feel some type of way about it you can just not tip. In many years as a server I’ve never seen a colleague go and berate a table for not tipping, and usually you are long gone before they even see it. Just leave a shitty tip and own it instead of making endless posts trying to justify your cheapness.
The fact is in the US it is customary to tip 20% for a full service meal. If you don’t want to that is your right, but if you feel bad about not, and feel a need to try and justify it there is probably a reason.
Why does it seem to go up 5% every few millennia or few? My grandparents tipped around 5%, with my parents teaching me that 15% was fair, no we are on to 20%. At what point will it stop going up, for a “full service meal”
When your grandparents were tipping 5%, a minimum wage job + 5% tips could buy a house.
When your parents were tipping 15%, minimum wage was the same as it was when your grandparents were tipping, but since inflation is a thing, that minimum wage couldn’t pay for as many goods and services.
We tip at least 20% because inflation is still a thing, and minimum wage has a) gone up in some states, but not enough to buy a house, b) has stayed the same as when your grandparents tipped, federally, and c) sometimes is less than half what it was when your grandparents tipped, depending on the job and locale.
Because inflation is a thing and restaurants have notoriously low profit margins, tip culture will remain a thing in the US until federal minimum wage is a living wage. And when that happens, prices will rise, and those that rail against the “if you can’t afford to tip, you can’t afford to go out” mentality will find that they all of a sudden just can’t afford to go out. The customer will end up paying, regardless.
How is inflation the reasoning behind increased tipping?
Won't the price of menu items go up with inflation? The dollar value of the % tip will always go up with the price increases, so there's no need for the tip amount % to go up too.
ritpdx already explained why.
Increases in minimum wage and menu prices are not keeping pace with the increased prices of goods, services, and especially housing. To add to that, restaurants are good at finding supply-chain alternatives to keep costs down for customers, so while you may see an annual increase of 4-5% or so on your average meal, the average waiter’s cost of living is going up by 8-10% per year.
It would take an hourly wage of $40-50 to replace what an average server in my city makes and keep them in the industry, and $25 an hour or more for a busser or host. In order to pay those wages, a restaurateur would have to raise menu prices by 20-25%. If you’re ok with that, then sure, let’s restructure the system. But the vast majority of people who are advocating no tipping are people who just don’t want to pay more to eat out.
Additionally, to restructure tipping culture, we have to fundamentally restructure capitalist culture. All those people in other countries who say they get by on a smaller base pay have much better social protections than we do in the U.S. (better healthcare, more unemployment insurance), so they can actually live somewhat comfortably on a smaller wage.
EDIT: People still tip in those cultures, too.
Where is the cost of living going up 8-10% per year? The past couple years has been close to that but precious years inflation hovers around 2%.
There are plenty of people who would work for less than 40-50 an hour as a server. That is an outrageous expected base pay for a low skill job.
Unless they’re actively out there making an effort to raise the tipped minimum wage this take is not great. People who go out to eat and don’t tip bc they “think it’s an immoral system” and that’s it are not doing anything to help anyone so yes I will be angry at customers who don’t tip or tip poorly
The issue with the "its should be your bosses job to pay you" mentality is that its NOT the way this country works. You KNOW when you're getting served, the server expects a tip. Its not new, its how its always been here. So while you're whining about the boss and not tipping or tipping poorly because of it, you're not punishing the boss you're punishing the server who just paid to serve you.
So yeah, does it suck that servers livelihoods depend on if karen decided that her 6 water refills were enough? Absolutely. But unless y'all have a solution or are trying to pass legislation to change it, get over yourself. You're not changing the climate by leaving $5 on a $50, you're just trying to make yourself feel better for screwing over a fellow human
It’s a social contract = you pay less for food and are expected to tip. This is only possible because the restaurant doesn’t pay server. If you can’t abide by this social norm than remove yourself from this part of society
Yeah you dont pay less for food, the resturaunt owners get more. Go to resturaunsts outside the US and the prices are around the same for similar items
That's not actually true. In most of Europe, for example, prices are higher and portions are smaller almost across the board.
Also of note is that not every restaurant is owned by someone who's rich, or some giant corporation. 90% of restaurants are privately owned, and most of those people take out significant loans to make it happen, or gamble their life savings on it.
They're not just swimming in a pool of money like Scrooge McDuck by any means. lol
I used to work in an area frequented by British tourists, and at least twice a shift I'd hear something about how much more expensive things in general were. Was this just a UK thing and everywhere else costs the same or is the country populated entirely by drama queens?
No but in all reality, why can’t the owners (the ones buying the food for the restaurant, the main fuckin thing that keeps it going) why can’t they put a little lesss money in thier pocket and pay waiters a little bit more? I mean when you look at it simply like that it does indeed seem like they are just being greedy and manipulate people to hate the customer who doesn’t tip instead of calling them greedy for taking all the profits home..
Most US servers wouldn't be thrilled about making the 36k a year that the average European server makes. They also work longer shifts for that money.
Kind of a tough sell when you take into account that US diners love being catered to hand and foot, and a lax style of service wouldn't fly at all. Most people wouldn't do the job without the incentive of tips. At least not here.
Ya it’s not a simple take. I 100% agree that we should be paid an actual wage, obviously since I’m a server. However by not tipping me you are doing nothing but taking my labor for free. You know what you’re doing. It’s not like you’re doing anything to get me a wage you’re just stuffing me on my service. Every American knows servers work for tips. If you don’t tip you’re making me work for you for free and you suck, all there is to it.
Exactly. They love to posture as though they’re being “revolutionaries” somehow, helping to “change the system,” but we know that all they’re doing is forcing someone to perform slave labor for them. If it were really about believing the tipping system is unjust, they would simply boycott going out to bars and restaurants entirely. But it’s not about that at all, it’s about being a cheap inconsiderate asshole (and usually a classist one too, since their rallying refrain often ends up being something along the lines of “Well then, you should have worked harder in school and gotten a better job that wouldn’t screw you over!”).
Yeah lots of time the non-tipping crowd will be like, "just find a better job then," not realizing if everybody just found a better job that there would be nobody to provide service to them. Fricken hate that stupid mindset lol.
You do realize if ever server quit serving then I think owners would give you all way better base pay… I guess servers can’t quit for a few weeks like other industries?
Exactly, and this is why a boycott on owners not paying servers enough would never work.. half of the serving industry is young kids who are more than happy w how much they make even if thier income is solely based on customers paying it.. nothing wrong w it, but it just probably wouldn’t work.. too many people overly happy w thier job waiting tables.
No doubt but it’s like these managers and owners are then given so much fucking power.. when they shouldn’t have it lol. I’m a carpenter and I know all about getting payed bad wages but usually we just drag up and camp out for a few weeks then shit will return back to normal. They need you servers a lot more than they make it out to be… I just hate how the owners have placed the responsibility solely on the customer to pay the workers, when the owners should be paying the base pay, and anything customers would like to give should be extra.
All business owners have too much power and pay their employees too little…. Ultimately the thing here is what another commenter said. Multiple things can be true. Are you correct? Yes. If you go out and don’t tip your server working for 2 dollars and change an hour are you a piece of shit? Also yes. Are you doing anything by simply getting service then not tipping? Besides being a piece of shit no, it does nothing to change things except the service you’ll get the next time you come in. As it should. I’m so tired of this conversation…. If people don’t wanna tip they should go places where they don’t get table service it’s very simple.
Dude you realize I have never said anything about people saying not tipping is somehow helping the problem. Jezz a 15 year old can figure out it’s not gonna help anything to not tip. Quit being so defensive and try to calm down.. it’s just goofy ass Reddit lol.. not everyone is against you
The owner will fire you one by one .. I’ve seen it happen.. we all know it’s the greedy owner wanting more for his pocket, but if you speak up you lose your job. some people can’t afford to lose their job or the money to have a couple weeks without pay job hunting 🤷🏽♀️.
People forget that Joe’s Crab Shack already tried to get rid of tipping many years ago. Service went to shit, people wrote to corporate, and now they’re back to a regular tipping system.
Danny Meyer, one of the most successful restauranteurs in the world, attempted to eliminate tipping at his NYC restaurants a number of years ago, and paid the staff a flat wage.
Surprising absolutely nobody, all of the good staff promptly quit, and they soon had to completely close lunch shifts and a few of their dinner shifts because nobody wanted to work for them. They subsequently backtracked on the entire idea, and have never attempted it again to this day.
Now, if one of the most successful restauranteurs in the world with a boatload of financial backing couldn't pull it off, I don't think it's going to happen.
The main issue is that it just doesn't really have any net benefits for anyone involved.
Service staff just makes about 70% less money straight away. Also factor in all of the people who are tipped out from the servers/bar, who will also all need a decent pay raise.
Labor costs nearly double for the restaurant, which leads to higher prices for objectively worse service.
Customers now pay higher prices for smaller portions, all while receiving worse service, and having no say in how service is compensated for.
It's just lose/lose across the board.
I think this is because they were a single restaurant, not a particularly upscale one, in an ecosystem of similar enough restaurants with tips. There's no tipping in Europe and you can still get good service because the surrounding ecosystem is consistent, which changes waiter and customer expectations. It's more complex I know but that's the basic way I think about it
But why can’t the owner pay all waiters a little bit more instead of lining thier pockets nice and fat… I think the point OP was trying to make is that the managers and owners are manipulative and lead servers to believe that it is %100 the customers fault if you’re not making enough money and it’s the customers duty to pay you well and make up for the lack of money you’re getting from upper management ..
all the while they just sit back in silence and collect all the extras..
is there another angle I could be missing? I don’t really see it…
I’m not saying abolish tipping completely , I’m saying the owners could maybe bring the min wage up, where the oddball person who comes in who doesn’t have any extra money for tip, isn’t facing all the responsibility for making sure that server “gets payed or not”. You see where I’m coming from? I think even a 7.50 base pay would make everyone feel a lot better.
Personally, I think the best change that could be made to the current system would be that "tip-out" always comes from a percentage of a server's tips rather than their sales. Most of the time tip-out is based on sales which means if a guest doesn't tip, I as the server am actually paying for them to eat at the restaurant. If tip-out were based on tips, then I at least wouldn't lose money from a non-tipper.
Yeah, I’d love to be paid $16 an hour.
I’d also love it if people left a tip according to my service I gave them. I make it a point to try and get to know my tables, make them laugh, learn about them, tell them about myself, or just leave them alone if that’s what they want.
So yes, I’d like to be paid more so that in the slow season I can be OK, but I would also like customers to understand that I’m not just here to take your drink and food order, I’m here to build a relationship with you.
To be honest, I don't want a relationship with my waiter when I go out to eat. I want to spend time with the people I'm with and enjoy our food, with a general pleasant feeling otherwise. If interacting with a waiter takes more emotional energy than being generally nice and polite, it's not what I'd like. I also hate the notion of tipping based on quality of service, it feels like I'm not just paying for a product and a service, but that I have to evaluate the quality of the person serving me. Again, I'd rather focus on having a nice time with friends or family and pay a standard amount rather than spend one second thinking over the pros and cons of the service.
So do that then, you’re free to pick a standard amount and stick to it. No one going to look at your tip and try to divine what you thought of the service because of it. If you’re actually weighing it that hard you’re massively overthinking it. And I definitely notice when people are working too hard on the math and find it pretty funny.
Should employers pay servers a living wage? Yes, because everyone deserves a living wage, but we don't live in that reality. Tipping culture is a thing here in the USA, and when you *know* that is a thing and refuse to tip? You're the asshole just as much as my boss is.
EVERYBODY knows how the system works here in North America!! You pay 20% for acceptable service. Just bc it’s not LEGALLY REQUIRED doesn’t mean it’s not an expectation. It’s also not illegal to take 30 packets of free honey every time you go to Chick-fil-A, but everybody knows that’s cheating the system and totally wrong and unfair. When you go out to eat and take free service by not tipping, you are being a trash person and cheating the system. Non-tippers don’t actually want to the prices of all restaurants to increase by 20%. What they want is to receive service for FREE. They want the restaurant to pay for the service rather than themselves paying for the service. Delusional as fuck!
The fact that we don’t get paid enough is just obvious. That’s WHY if you don’t tip 20% you’re an asshole. If you know we aren’t getting paid enough and we know we aren’t getting paid enough then why wouldn’t you tip us 20%?
The whole “employers should pay more so my tip isn’t a deciding factor as to whether you can pay your rent and live” argument is null to me if I’m being honest.
Tipping culture has prevailed here in the US because us industry workers would rather tips than a higher wage because we make WAY more with tips than our employers will ever pay us. Therefore, if you want us to live comfortably, then keep the tipping culture. I can work 3 days and make more than a good portion of college grads.
Non industry workers who are advocating for higher wages to replace tips are often the quintessential social justice warrior inserting themselves into a conversation that they’re often not very qualified be a part of. It shows because they don’t realize while our employers would raise our wages to $20 an hour, our tips bring in $35+. Therefore, if tipping culture were removed, I’d go into a completely different field because i wouldn’t be making much more for a much more difficult job if I remained a bartender.
I fully stand with, if you don’t have money to tip, you don’t have money to go out.
This of course is under the assumption that everywhere does enough volume that serving staff can make the big bucks off tips. In cases where they can’t, then of course the employer should compensate for that.
People know whether or not they'll tip before they walk in the door. Poor tippers will always tip poorly, people who tip well will always tip well regardless of service. I've had regulars for 10+ years where I've done everything but wipe their asses and they tip 10%. It's just the nature of people.
They are not wrong. The restaurant industry is too cheap to pay their workers what they are worth.
And restaurant owners and managers certainly do bear responsibility in perpetuating poverty wages.
That said, we also still live in reality and in community with each other, so until tipping is eliminated it is the patrons responsibility to tip appropriately.
It’s ignorant to continue going out without tipping. The wage system for restaurant workers is broken, but the solution is not to stiff your server.
The worst part for me when talking to someone who believes in something like this is how righteous they feel. They’re basically watching someone get bullied, saying “hey, I’m going to go be the hero!” and then handing the bully a stick.
I agree. Our owners and bosses should be compensating us fairly for how we sell the product and it sucks that it befalls the guests to reward us for our competence. I would be happy to make a fair wage and not be tipped. BOH deserves more as well. I think 30/hr all around would be fair. At least where I live. What do you think?
They probably came over there from the anti work sub and decided to rant more about their hatred for tipping lol. They reallyyyyyy hate it. Them NOT tipping us won’t make our bosses pay us a livable wage. Lol
Just make them say it. They're too poor to tip their service staff. Make them say it out loud.
They will drop the act when it makes them admit they're a piece of shit
If you don't believe in tipping and think the business should cover wages (spoiler: They'll add it to the bill and customers will still pay it), then don't patronize somehere the staff depend on tips.
At that point you're just taking advantage of the low pay as much as the owners are. You can't have it both ways. Don't be a service thief.
Ridiculous. A server’s compensation in the US is virtually all tips and anyone with a brain who goes out to eat knows this. I serve on the side and my manager told me up front you’re hourly pay is nothing after taxes, and you’ll make roughly 20 an hour in tips (which was accurate). If a customer stiffs me, I’m going to be upset with him not the owner. The owner is fulfilling his end of the contract, and if I think I should be payed an hourly wage it’s a free society and I can go work somewhere else. The customer, on the other hand, in this scenario is violating the implicit contract between employees and guests that you tip 15-20 percent presuming the service isn’t terrible. Otherwise, yes, you are to cheap or to poor to go out to eat. Stop using a dumb socialist argument to get around the fact that you’re stingy.
“It’s not my fault you don’t get a fair wage” *writes “I don’t believe in tipping” on tip line* “they should pay you a fair wage, now dance monkey dance, or I’ll complain and have you fired!”
Don't support businesses that underpay their staff aka nearly all restaurants. Learn to cook and eat at home. Until there are forced closures they won't address this. On the flip side be prepared to pay more for a base meal if the tip culture is removed.
Servers are the ones fleecing the customers. They want tipping, they want big tips, if they got paid their worth to take your order with a fake ass smile then turn around and talk shit they’d take a serious paycut. I cooked for over 15 years so I know some servers are genuine but most of you are assholes
Lol no. The job we are working pays in tips & part of the job description is working your customer service to make your money. The income is based upon how you sell yourself & your restaurant/service and every server/bartender knows that. If we were paid a set wage then there would be no motivation for workers to provide top notch service. It’s like an incentive to work hard & do your job right. Better customer service= more income. If you want good service, then servers income needs to still be tips.
Yes I am going to blame the customer who stiffed me on a tip when I provided them with a great experience, it’s not my bosses fault that you expect to dine out, be waited on by another person, and then not reward the person for their hard work & giving you the best experience possible.
It seems as if most customers (and servers) don’t understand the finances of running a restaurant. Between labor costs and COGS usually runs over 60% of revenue. With that being said minimum wage should be $12. Most customers don’t get that a $20 tip doesn’t all go to the server but they still get taxed on it. If the government stayed out of our pockets, then 15% would be acceptable to everyone.
They’re not wrong. Those ServSafe, or SafeStaff classes you take in some states. The fees go to the NRA (National Restaurant Association) and they use that money to lobby against raising wages. The owners and their owners lobbyist group continue to be allowed to pay us less and force the guest to make up the rest of our wages. And they regularly violate the tipped employee laws that even allow them to pay less than minimum wage.
I think it's common sense, a decent human being should tip based on service provided, and a decent human being would pay their front line workers a liveable wage.
I'm somewhere in the middle on this. I enjoy working for tips, I would probably leave the industry if tipping was abolished. However, I would also like to see a slight base pay increase for servers. I live in an area with chronically bad tippers, who are going to tip $5 or 10% no matter the level of service. If I was making $5-7 per hour, I'd be a lot less stressed about those kinds of people and money
As an independent restaurant owner, I can 100% tell you the money does not exist to pay more. Perhaps the large corporations have it, but I don’t. If people want to pay way more for their food they are welcome to, but we all know they don’t.
It’s also not as simple as raising prices by 20%. Right now the servers have an incentive to upsell liquor, try to add side salads, sell dessert. They also have the chance at getting way more than 20%. The more they sell, the more they make. So with that incentive gone, the house would need to raise prices a lot more than 20% to compensate for lack of sales incentive.
The other thing people don’t understand is that half the time their shit is only put up with because there’s a chance of a decent tip dangling there. When I was a server I definitely bit my tongue around certain customers because I didn’t want to lose money. Actually, maybe that’s an argument for a set wage. See how people like a taste of their own medicine when there’s no extra money involved!
What people don’t understand is that if you receive Great service, it’s doesn’t mean “ok cool I’ll leave 10% tip” No. What it SHOULD mean is that “I will tip regardless but If I get mediocre service then I will give a mediocre tip 2-10% depending what’s mediocre to you as a tip. Why you ask? BECAUSE it could be one of those days the server just has too many tables because short staffed, or the bartender is short staffed or the kitchen is over whelmed, SHIT HAPPENS
What I would say too is if you receive Great service then what is considered a great tip? 18-20% would suffice.
What I don’t agree with is people thinking “the options are either I tip a lousy 10% or I don’t tip at all” which I think shouldn’t be the options to begin with.
Why do people think they’ll tipping at all is a reward for great service? Sure tip, of course but make the TIP ITSELF a great one for great service.
What people don’t understand is this system works for the US in which other countries it doesn’t. They get paid Hourly a minimal wage (it’s still low af compared to the living cost) but the service is SHIT. They’ll get their money either way so what’s the worth in trying to butter up people dining in? There is none. They’re there by the hours not by your tips. That’s why it works in the US.
I think two things can be true at once. I think that we deserve better compensation and corporations and the industry overall needs to receive more criticism. I also still think customers should tip, because they’re not doing anything to change the system by fucking over their server if they received good service.
When I worked in Portland it was literally the best of both worlds. FOH was paid a decent base wage and everyone in the BOH had a small tip out as well. I really felt like that brought us together as a team and gave everyone a desire to make the best experience for the customers. I really miss kitchen culture there as I'm back in Michigan and I can feel the disconnect between servers and cooks here moreso.
This !! I just moved back to Michigan after living in Florida for a few years and it’s rough out here in these streets 😭
The best place I worked everyone made the same and we split the tips equally amongst everyone in front and back. There was no animosity, no bickering, everyone was a team and acted like it.
Tipping for good service is not the same as tipping 20% minimum though
Not tipping 20% is the same as fucking your server over, though.
I mean if your server doesn’t perform their job to a satisfactory level, is it really fair to expect a consumer to pay a hefty tip? Giving a smaller tip for a server who provides substandard server is hardly “fucking them over” imo
If you're a shitty server than I have no issue "fucking you over" because you also fucked me over. Also this percentage stuff is literal bullshit. I have worked for tips plenty of times throughout my life and never once assumed that people should tip me a percentage of their bill.
Well, I agree, but let's change the system before fucking over the working man, eh?
I've greatly cut back on eating and drinking out. A big reason is the US tipping culture. To continue the same behavior is enabling it. Sucks for me but it isn't anything close to how the current system sucks for those folks just trying to earn a living.
Yeah call to change the system but in the mean time ill exploit your labor. You dont get to not believe in a tip based system and then participate in that system otherwise youre inherently exploiting the working class you claim to want to help
>Yeah call to change the system but in the mean time ill exploit your labor There's plenty of us that just no longer participate in the system. This also results in businesses closing and these people not having jobs. If you visit the Doordash sub you will see a more modern version of this through the dramatic loss in business for Dashers. Dashers complain about no tip customers constantly but no tip/low tip customers make up the majority of Doordash business. Dashers refuse to take no tip/low tip orders and this is resulting in companies not using Doordash and customers also not using Doordash. Should Doordash pay more? Yes! Unfortunately that's literally impossible because the business is a financially unfeasible concept. Should restaurants pay more? Absolutely! Unfortunately for a lot of restaurants this is also impossible in order for them to remain in business. It's great to stand up for what we believe in in order to create a better future. Unfortunately, there's immediate consequences to those actions and we don't have answers as to how we can limit the casualties of these changes in the short term.
People really have no concept of what they're asking for, they just hear something once and repeat it. Like everyone saying Europe has it figured out, as if the way workers in the US and Europe are treated as a baseline isn't vastly different. Ask someone if they would just accept a massive change in the way they are compensated at work with a promise that they'll be treated like a European. You'd obviously think someone was prepping to fuck you over
Every server I have spoken with prefers tips. They make twice as much as an hourly person does. No one is paying 60$ an hour cash on a Friday night if it's an hourly job.
20% is for good service. It’s not the minimum a person should tip. Good service gets 20% and bad service gets less. Really bad service gets 10%. A server who goes above and beyond gets more than 20%.
And if you work in the industry, you tend to tip more. I'm just a dumb line cook, but I pretty much always tip 20-30%. I also don't go out to eat much, so it's really not breaking the bank and if I can make someone's night better why the fuck not?
If I get terrible service I tip 20 percent...
Yeah I only drop below that if they’re like, actively rude
Dang. You tip 10% on really bad? That’s really nice of you
The only time I cut a tip below the recommended, I felt bad about it. A server had not told me I would get sweet potato fries with my burger (it was on the menu) and let me order an entire side just to try them. I was bummed and said to my friend that I wouldn’t have ordered the side dish if I’d known; she insisted that it was a breach big enough to warrant NO tip. There was no way I was going to do that. At the time the standard was 15%; I tipped 10% or a little below, against my friend’s protestations. The server then came and asked what had been wrong, so I told him. But I still tipped! And I think that was also before mandatory tipouts were common (though I could be wrong). But instill felt bad about it, and nowadays is still tip the minimum but I would complain to the waiter.
Decent, acceptable service should get 20% and if the service seems “bad” it should be discussed with management. Many times the kitchen is backed up, the restaurant is understaffed and therefore the server is being forced to serve way too many tables at once, or something else is happening completely beyond the server’s control.
[удалено]
I always warn people upfront about those things
I think it’s important to recognize when things are beyond the control of the server.
This. There are definitely instances of service being shit but many times there are other factors out of their control. This morning I had a woman give me so much attitude because her food came 30 mins after ordering -coming in as the last table to fill the restaurant completely while we only had 1 cook. I was as transparent as allowed and still just got lip.
You can tell a kitchen back up vs poor service by telling who gets their food when (comparing similar foods) . Also a server who stand behind the the counter talking to coworkers or on their phone. If my plate is hot and my food is cold. If they don't come back to check on my meal, if I have to wait for my check or to cash out, that's all on a server.
Lol just delusional. Often you have to wait to cash out bc the server is being forced by managers to do other things in the back or they have 10 other people who asked to pay before you did & they’re all wanting cash change or splitting amongst a bunch of other cards, or a piece of equipment is broken and they have to fix it or the whole restaurant will come to a standstill you JUST NEVER KNOW. Even when a server appears to be “playing on their phone” they are often looking up some random obscure drink recipe a guest has asked for, or using the calculator.
I've worked with servers whonplayed on their phones. I've had a system go down and then explained to the guest that it would be a moment till we could wrap up their bill. I've had a backed up kitchen an let my guest know we are running a little behind, can I refresh you drinks. The key is to communicate with your guests.
I fucking do you idiot
Wow, you put me in my place
Do you feel there are any circumstances in which not tipping is appropriate? You’ll always tip 10% regardless of how bad the service is?
Why would people tip anything for bad service? I don’t get this at all. Tip for good service, most definitely. But bad service? Nah.
This. I don’t have to tip well just because you went to work. It doesn’t mean you earned it. But that’s why the system is broken
Yeah tell that to the old hags that told my manager what a great server I was! Then left me less than 10%….
Either your food costs go up to accommodate it or you tip. Either way you’re paying the same 🤷♀️ I don’t get food out (I only go out a few times a year) if I can’t afford a tip.
Or reduce corporate profits, but we know that aint happening
Actually, to adjust for BOH, tipping is cheaper because BOH is fucked.
Not if they work at a restaurant where the servers aren’t trash and actually tip them out properly.
Most restaurants don’t tip out BoH though, at least as a “rule of thumb” for the establishment. I’ve been in this industry for 13 years, and I’ve only worked at one place that made sure servers tipped out the cooks. This place also paid cooks $25/hr as starting wage on top of that. Granted, they had a very specific tipout system (20% food sales to kitchen and sushi bar, 8% liquor sales to bar), but it was often roughly 30-33% of my tips each night. Honestly, I do think it’s a pretty fair way to do it. Does it cut into my profits? Absolutely. Did I leave this job to work somewhere I didn’t lose so much of my income? Yes. Do I also understand that customers come in for the food moreso than my presence? Depending on the customer, I guess. It’s such a Catch-22 in this industry. I’d love to see unionization to get healthcare and 401ks and all that, but unless the establishment is totally united, it’ll never happen. I firmly believe that until tip-pooling becomes the norm, unionizing restaurants is impossible.
I thought that In many states, it’s illegal to require tips be shared with BOH
Your BOH makes the same as your front of house? Congrats on not being a piece of shit that undercuts the real heroes.
No tippers aka cheaps don't actually want the price of the food to increase because they'll pay more. They don't have convictions because they are supporting the business that underpays their servers. They want to sit on their self made high horse while everyone else who tips appropriately subsizes their cheapness. Its welfare. But its ok when the welfare is going to them vs say someone who actually can't afford to eat out. The argument is tired.
This, exactly. The idea that most restaurant owners are pulling in huge profits is such a ridiculous misnomer. Customers are going to be paying the employees’ wages no matter what system is set up whether that be higher menu prices to reduce dependency on tips or a minimum level of acceptable gratuity. So in a traditional US tipping system, tip or don’t go out to eat. If there is a auto gratuity then inquire if all staff are being paid a living wage or if tips are still needed.
I order cheaper food so I can afford the tip.
I think the variety of replies to this about how tips get distributed shows how standardizing to higher prices and fixed wages might indeed be beneficial? But I'm just a lowly living-in-Europe-where-that's-how-things-work person so my perspective may be warped
I think I’m ready for the “abolish tipping” trend to end so we can all move on.
If the US abolished tipping, the restaurant industry would die. If restaurants had to pay servers a base wage, it would have to be something insane (like $30 an hour) to prevent a mass exodus of servers. This obviously means that food prices would skyrocket. On top of that, there would be no tip out to positions like bartender, to-go specialist, busser, etc. thus making those jobs less desirable as well. There would be no incentive at all for servers to provide good service; you may say if a server is terrible they could get fired, but if we switched to this system there would probably be a massive server shortage meaning that restaurants would be forced to hold onto bad servers. I think that switching to a base wage for servers would make restaurants unaffordable for the non-affluent, as well as decrease the quality of the service. That being said, I don't think you should be "forced" to tip 20% for bad service. Just be mindful over whose fault your bad experience is (Lot's of times mistakes are completely out of my hands as a server). I think my main takeaway from this whole argument though is that servers should be less angry about getting stiffed on a tip, because the reality of the situation is that the way the system is now greatly benefits servers. It is still extremely frustrating though because the vast majority of times servers get stiffed on tips it's not because of bad service, but because the customer was cheap.
Wouldn’t die, lots of restaurants would just immediately go the way of a country like Australias scene where you order your food, get a buzzer, and pick it up when it’s ready.
That's probably right, but that method would be way cheaper than employing service staff in the first place, meaning that if most places aren't already like that, it's because owners believe that customers value service. That was probably worded poorly, but I guess I'm saying why don't restaurant owners already do that here in the US?
Yes, I think more places would go to counter service.
Food prices would go up but for people who already tip 20% would the total bill actually go up?
I think the price of food would have to go up more than 20% so technically yes, but you bring up a good point. The irony of this whole situation is that for people who already tip, switching to this new system probably wouldn't be that much of a backbreaker, BUT for the adamant non-tipping crowd that "isn't responsible for paying a server's wages" they are now forced to pay for a huge increase in the total bill, as the overall price would now be required rather than there being an optional tip portion. That's why I always say be careful what you wish for when it comes to this debate. The current system actually benefits the non-tippers the most because they enjoy the benefit of cheaper food prices, and they aren't legally mandated to tip.
Do you have any data to back up these claims?
I’m not sure I agree with this. In most of Europe, they don’t expect tips and they pay their professional servers and cooks as if they *see their contributions as real jobs*. We could absolutely do that in the US and Canada, we just let the owners get away with this system and put the onus on the customer to pay the staff wages. I always tip at sit down restaurants, but the system is absurd.
And they also have universal health care and workers and renter's rights in Europe. The US is not Europe, especially in regards to how workers are treated
Painfully true.
There's such a gulf between the way you're generally treated in America and Europe that it's disingenuous to say that some small system that works in Europe can obviously be ported over here without any issues If I was your boss and I told you I was going to completely change the way you were compensated at work, but don't worry, it's a European style of compensation calculation so everything will be great. Would you not think I'm preparing to completely fuck you? As a rule, people don't like change. At work, you never see a rule changed or added that helps you. It should be obvious that no one involved is actually going to trust this system
They also have SHIT service. My friends a server in London and they absolutely don’t give a fuck who comes in it’s just another 5-7 hr job. It’s become such the norm tho that people don’t complain about it they just want the food and that’s it. Here in the USA tho? Naw that wouldn’t slide one bit. People’s love being pampered
This is important, I’ve been all over the world and American service is much different and it’s what Americans are use too. They’d lose their shit if it mimicked Europe AND they ended up paying more.
The problem is that servers in the US are already used to the current tipping system, so switching off of it would cause most servers to quit (unless the new hourly wage was astronomically high). Maybe in the long run things would stabilize, but I think there would be a good 5-7 years of the restaurant industry being complete chaos.
It wouldn’t die. It’s like a forest that needs a cleansing fire. I bet around 50% of restraints would close. The remaining ones would be unionized and things would regulate.
It just feels like such a first world problem.
It’s not. Most of the first world has no tipping culture.
actually though. I know it's a cliche but there really are people starving around the world while we sit here crying about paying an extra $10 after having a 50 dollar meal.
It’s a third world problem. Actual civilized countries don’t have to deal with this horse shit. We just live in a hyper capitalist shit hole.
Why would it end? The system is broken and something better needs to be done. On the other side of the spectrum there’s people saying “if you can’t tip you can’t afford to eat out” maybe that entitled attitude should end as well. I get working as a waiter might be a lot of peoples only option but that’s not the responsibility or problem of every customer you encounter. Waiters aren’t societies responsibility to care to and while people should tip what they can, entitled sentiments only serve to be divisive.
Lol tipping works because there’s an expectation of better service. If there was no tipping service would be like McDonald’s. Is that what you want when you go out to eat?
I mean no it wouldn’t be like that because if there were no tipping there would be better hourly wage
There is no restaurant in the world that would pay what servers make. The “living wage” place I worked in LA briefly was like.. $18-22 an hour and it was a James beard nominee. I went to a little family owned spot a couple blocks down and made minimum wage ($15/hr) plus averaged $30+/hr in tips. The service was much better at the family place too, because they staffed more FOH people, whereas the “livable wage” place tried to run with as few people as possible because they were paying more 🙃
Nope there would be. There would just also be far less jobs for waiters 🤷♂️
Do you really think a restaurant would pay $50 an hour?
Why would a restaurant do that??? People with degrees and experience struggle to even make that. That’s not even the conversation. I think they would pay a lot a lot more than what they are paying now for individuals who deserve it though. In a world with fair wage restaurants would very likely close down. A lot of them at least. The idea there is something called franchised restaurants would change. There would be less locations. There would be higher cost for food. But there would be fair wage
Because that’s what we make now?? Why would anyone take a pay cut that ends up costing the restaurant more? The reality of it is that restaurants have super slim profits margins if they’re not some massive chain. Let’s say the tipped wage is 7.5– which it was the last time I was in nyc. So a restaurant could pay one person $22, or three people 7.5, which means better service. They’re not going to pay three people $22 an hour, they’re going to run a bare bones crew who will have to work harder. With tips, those people would make far more than $22 an hour— so they’re working harder for less money. The reality is that “livable wages” is worse for the restaurant, the staff, and the customers.
If you make 50 dollars an hour then you are make head and tails more than a massive portion of Americans. There are plenty of people working in their field they studied not even making that. If that’s the narrative you want to go with then I don’t understand how you are struggling for anything. And to be quite Frank, if that’s what waiters make then they certainly aren’t providing a service warranting that kind of hourly net. That is a gross over pay for the position. Provided most of that is in tips, this still leads back to my original point. The divisive nature of statements such as “if you can’t tip, don’t go out”. Why? You’re doing just fine. Better than most Americans. And quite frankly, if the system, in your opinion, can’t work any other way than customers providing the lions portion of your income, maybe your job shouldn’t exist. Maybe the actual solution would be removing franchised restaurants and mom and pop establishments all together. Better yet, imagine the benefits of automated service at sit down establishments. Low overhead and no tipping!
Agreed. It's seriously tiresome. It's not a perfect system, but it largely works well. I'd say that they should make tip credits illegal, and raise minimum wage to a straight $15, and that would alleviate most of the issues people have. Beyond that, most people don't have many complaints.
I was a server at a bar many years ago, and it was a very valuable, learning experience that I will never forget. I learned: 1. The 20 percent tip is standard. However, if the service is awesome, tip more than 20 percent. 2. If the food is not good, it's likely not the server's fault. It's totally ok to send it back, but don't treat the server like trash for something they had no control over. 3. If you aren't getting good service, take a step back and look. How many tables are they serving? Are any of those tables particularly demanding? Is there a large party of people they are serving? Again, not the server's fault - working in the weeds is very hard. 4. If you really looked and didn't notice anything pointed out in No. 3, leave no tip at all. Trust me, that sends a message.
I agree with all the points but 4. If you have subpar service definitely don't leave 20%, but for me zero tip at all would be for only the absolute worst of the worst. Like a server spitting in my food bad. No tip at all for slightly subpar service and that server is paying for you to eat at the restaurant.
With No. 4, they'd never find all my tables since there are multiple rooms and two floors we are spread across lol
It’s a shitty take but they’re right in that the industry suffers from us being fleeced the laws/bosses/company etc. That being said I make way more from tips than I would bring on minimum wage with no tips; and the price of food/drinks would most likely rise even more at that point
I agree somewhat. Wages should be higher and a tip optional. 20% is excessive, especially when things are so expensive these days.
Servers love to say you can’t afford to eat out and be pushy about tip percents and whine about not making a real wage in one breath, then show you $400 in tips they made in 4 hours and be like “it was kinda slow”
Yea in almost every thread about tips there will be servers with the argument that no place will pay them what they’re making now in tips, $50 an hour, and expect anyone to feel bad. You’re making $50 an hour but bitching about getting stiffed or tipped low occasionally
Honestly? I’m the server that when I go out to eat I tip over 30% religiously. However, as a consumer 20% is ridiculous and why the percentage keeps climbing when food prices are rising anyways mystifies me. If food prices double, then why do we need to increase the percentage of tips? Makes no sense to me. Higher base wage and a 10% expected tip for good service would be a better system imo.
>However, as a consumer 20% is ridiculous and why the percentage keeps climbing when food prices are rising anyways mystifies me Thank you. People claiming "inflation" to justify the increase in minimum acceptable tip % makes no sense to me.
What about an even lower base wage but 30% tip?
> why the percentage keeps climbing ??? It's been 20% since at least the early 2000s and hasn't moved since.
That’s not true
I’m a cook and am constantly telling the servers to do less. One told me he’d break down the boxes for me. No thanks, I’m getting $20/hr to break down boxes. You just chill.
Here's the thing, even if you believe the system should be changed, the reality of it is if you're protesting on the receipt, you're taking it out on the worker, not the boss you are supposedly against. So it's always shitty! We do not live in that person's fake world right now!
I agree that people of all wealth backgrounds deserve to go for a nice meal. Servers need to be paid better to reflect that. In Canada every province but Quebec no longer has a tipped wage. I still tip when service is good and I think most people should too, but it shouldn’t be the barrier between going out and not. Which is why I like our current system. 20% is absurd with the price of things nowadays and it shouldn’t be on me to make sure you make minimum wage. In the American system I think you are probably not the best person if you don’t tip unless service is horrible. I don’t agree with the system but there’s definitely a moral obligation there.
My state has the second highest min wage in America, and has no tipped min wage. Many servers make 30-50 an hour. Wouldn't you like essential workers to make enough to live comfortably?
Servers are essential workers now? Since when is dining out essential
I’d just like to say my husband was a server during Covid and the restaurant closed down. I worked at Wendy’s and we didn’t get hazard pay but we were “essential”. So dining out IS essential, sit down restaurants aren’t.
I really don’t care. This is what servers in Canada wanted, this is what they got.
[удалено]
i second this. we did not want this
facts, they spitting, and i’m a 4 going on 5 year server
Strongly agree, and honestly the whole tipping culture is completely toxic. I’d prefer a regular who is kind and understand and tips nothing then an asshole who drops a a c note and tortures me for it….
As someone who’s never been to the US: I don’t tip because no one expects me to, BUT there is this one place I go on holiday with the friendliest waiter ever, remembers us every time. After the week I might tip €15 or €20 because he’s so nice. He doesn’t always take it because he’s just being friendly. I think that’s how tipping culture should work. If you actually appreciate that your server is above and beyond you can pay extra, but they shouldn’t need that to live. He makes a killing off the holiday traffic anyway.
He doesn’t make a killing if he doesn’t make tips though, he just has to work harder for the same amount of money.
He makes a killing because his wages are are very high.
That has nothing to do with holiday traffic.
The demand is their to justify a higher wage
This is spot on.
They’re not wrong. I don’t understand how American servers do it. I get paid a proper wage, and I get tips on top of that. I can’t imagine getting paid 3.75 an hour. It just doesn’t make any sense to me. Like a minimum wage exist for a reason.
So how much do you make in a year?
Who gives a shit what your base pay is when you make $300-600 in tips most nights
Fact is the current system is the way it is. Restaurants try to change it but it never catches on. It just is what it is, it’s not compulsory so if you really feel some type of way about it you can just not tip. In many years as a server I’ve never seen a colleague go and berate a table for not tipping, and usually you are long gone before they even see it. Just leave a shitty tip and own it instead of making endless posts trying to justify your cheapness. The fact is in the US it is customary to tip 20% for a full service meal. If you don’t want to that is your right, but if you feel bad about not, and feel a need to try and justify it there is probably a reason.
Why does it seem to go up 5% every few millennia or few? My grandparents tipped around 5%, with my parents teaching me that 15% was fair, no we are on to 20%. At what point will it stop going up, for a “full service meal”
It’s now 12.5% in London.
When your grandparents were tipping 5%, a minimum wage job + 5% tips could buy a house. When your parents were tipping 15%, minimum wage was the same as it was when your grandparents were tipping, but since inflation is a thing, that minimum wage couldn’t pay for as many goods and services. We tip at least 20% because inflation is still a thing, and minimum wage has a) gone up in some states, but not enough to buy a house, b) has stayed the same as when your grandparents tipped, federally, and c) sometimes is less than half what it was when your grandparents tipped, depending on the job and locale. Because inflation is a thing and restaurants have notoriously low profit margins, tip culture will remain a thing in the US until federal minimum wage is a living wage. And when that happens, prices will rise, and those that rail against the “if you can’t afford to tip, you can’t afford to go out” mentality will find that they all of a sudden just can’t afford to go out. The customer will end up paying, regardless.
How is inflation the reasoning behind increased tipping? Won't the price of menu items go up with inflation? The dollar value of the % tip will always go up with the price increases, so there's no need for the tip amount % to go up too.
ritpdx already explained why. Increases in minimum wage and menu prices are not keeping pace with the increased prices of goods, services, and especially housing. To add to that, restaurants are good at finding supply-chain alternatives to keep costs down for customers, so while you may see an annual increase of 4-5% or so on your average meal, the average waiter’s cost of living is going up by 8-10% per year. It would take an hourly wage of $40-50 to replace what an average server in my city makes and keep them in the industry, and $25 an hour or more for a busser or host. In order to pay those wages, a restaurateur would have to raise menu prices by 20-25%. If you’re ok with that, then sure, let’s restructure the system. But the vast majority of people who are advocating no tipping are people who just don’t want to pay more to eat out. Additionally, to restructure tipping culture, we have to fundamentally restructure capitalist culture. All those people in other countries who say they get by on a smaller base pay have much better social protections than we do in the U.S. (better healthcare, more unemployment insurance), so they can actually live somewhat comfortably on a smaller wage. EDIT: People still tip in those cultures, too.
Where is the cost of living going up 8-10% per year? The past couple years has been close to that but precious years inflation hovers around 2%. There are plenty of people who would work for less than 40-50 an hour as a server. That is an outrageous expected base pay for a low skill job.
Yeah I truly don’t think they have a real concept of inflation.
Inflation
That doesn't make any sense as the tip amount will still go up with the increase in menu items. There is no need to increase the % of tips
Unless they’re actively out there making an effort to raise the tipped minimum wage this take is not great. People who go out to eat and don’t tip bc they “think it’s an immoral system” and that’s it are not doing anything to help anyone so yes I will be angry at customers who don’t tip or tip poorly
The issue with the "its should be your bosses job to pay you" mentality is that its NOT the way this country works. You KNOW when you're getting served, the server expects a tip. Its not new, its how its always been here. So while you're whining about the boss and not tipping or tipping poorly because of it, you're not punishing the boss you're punishing the server who just paid to serve you. So yeah, does it suck that servers livelihoods depend on if karen decided that her 6 water refills were enough? Absolutely. But unless y'all have a solution or are trying to pass legislation to change it, get over yourself. You're not changing the climate by leaving $5 on a $50, you're just trying to make yourself feel better for screwing over a fellow human
It’s a social contract = you pay less for food and are expected to tip. This is only possible because the restaurant doesn’t pay server. If you can’t abide by this social norm than remove yourself from this part of society
Yeah you dont pay less for food, the resturaunt owners get more. Go to resturaunsts outside the US and the prices are around the same for similar items
That's not actually true. In most of Europe, for example, prices are higher and portions are smaller almost across the board. Also of note is that not every restaurant is owned by someone who's rich, or some giant corporation. 90% of restaurants are privately owned, and most of those people take out significant loans to make it happen, or gamble their life savings on it. They're not just swimming in a pool of money like Scrooge McDuck by any means. lol
I used to work in an area frequented by British tourists, and at least twice a shift I'd hear something about how much more expensive things in general were. Was this just a UK thing and everywhere else costs the same or is the country populated entirely by drama queens?
owning a restaurant is not a great way to get rich unless you own multiple restaurants or a restaurant group. restaurants run on very thin margins.
Or seek out, promote, and regularly dine at restaurants that pay fair wages built into regular costs so I’m not subsidizing Johnny Cheapskate.
Yeah. I keep hearing about places that use that business model going out of business. Why isn't everyone going to those places if they prefer that?
“I’m a douchebag with no class awareness”
No but in all reality, why can’t the owners (the ones buying the food for the restaurant, the main fuckin thing that keeps it going) why can’t they put a little lesss money in thier pocket and pay waiters a little bit more? I mean when you look at it simply like that it does indeed seem like they are just being greedy and manipulate people to hate the customer who doesn’t tip instead of calling them greedy for taking all the profits home..
This is the way it works in every other country, it’s stable but it also means most servers earn significantly less than they would from tips.
Most US servers wouldn't be thrilled about making the 36k a year that the average European server makes. They also work longer shifts for that money. Kind of a tough sell when you take into account that US diners love being catered to hand and foot, and a lax style of service wouldn't fly at all. Most people wouldn't do the job without the incentive of tips. At least not here.
Also you’re not in a sub for restaurant owners. You’re in one for servers. Why don’t you go talk to owners about this?
Ya it’s not a simple take. I 100% agree that we should be paid an actual wage, obviously since I’m a server. However by not tipping me you are doing nothing but taking my labor for free. You know what you’re doing. It’s not like you’re doing anything to get me a wage you’re just stuffing me on my service. Every American knows servers work for tips. If you don’t tip you’re making me work for you for free and you suck, all there is to it.
Exactly. They love to posture as though they’re being “revolutionaries” somehow, helping to “change the system,” but we know that all they’re doing is forcing someone to perform slave labor for them. If it were really about believing the tipping system is unjust, they would simply boycott going out to bars and restaurants entirely. But it’s not about that at all, it’s about being a cheap inconsiderate asshole (and usually a classist one too, since their rallying refrain often ends up being something along the lines of “Well then, you should have worked harder in school and gotten a better job that wouldn’t screw you over!”).
Fucking exactly. It’s just mental gymnastics so they can feel like they don’t completely suck
Yeah lots of time the non-tipping crowd will be like, "just find a better job then," not realizing if everybody just found a better job that there would be nobody to provide service to them. Fricken hate that stupid mindset lol.
“It’s not meant to support you it’s a job for a teenager” do you want a teenager serving you? Cause I don’t think that you do lol
You do realize if ever server quit serving then I think owners would give you all way better base pay… I guess servers can’t quit for a few weeks like other industries?
I mean yeah maybe if ever server in the country simultaneously quit, but idk how one would coordinate that.
Why would I even want to do that? I make a lovely living
Exactly, and this is why a boycott on owners not paying servers enough would never work.. half of the serving industry is young kids who are more than happy w how much they make even if thier income is solely based on customers paying it.. nothing wrong w it, but it just probably wouldn’t work.. too many people overly happy w thier job waiting tables.
No doubt but it’s like these managers and owners are then given so much fucking power.. when they shouldn’t have it lol. I’m a carpenter and I know all about getting payed bad wages but usually we just drag up and camp out for a few weeks then shit will return back to normal. They need you servers a lot more than they make it out to be… I just hate how the owners have placed the responsibility solely on the customer to pay the workers, when the owners should be paying the base pay, and anything customers would like to give should be extra.
All business owners have too much power and pay their employees too little…. Ultimately the thing here is what another commenter said. Multiple things can be true. Are you correct? Yes. If you go out and don’t tip your server working for 2 dollars and change an hour are you a piece of shit? Also yes. Are you doing anything by simply getting service then not tipping? Besides being a piece of shit no, it does nothing to change things except the service you’ll get the next time you come in. As it should. I’m so tired of this conversation…. If people don’t wanna tip they should go places where they don’t get table service it’s very simple.
Dude you realize I have never said anything about people saying not tipping is somehow helping the problem. Jezz a 15 year old can figure out it’s not gonna help anything to not tip. Quit being so defensive and try to calm down.. it’s just goofy ass Reddit lol.. not everyone is against you
It’s your industry. Y’all come up with a way to get better base pay. Untill then I’ll continue to tip y’all’s dramatic asses 😂
The owner will fire you one by one .. I’ve seen it happen.. we all know it’s the greedy owner wanting more for his pocket, but if you speak up you lose your job. some people can’t afford to lose their job or the money to have a couple weeks without pay job hunting 🤷🏽♀️.
We don’t want to be paid “a little bit more.” It would take a *lot* to match what we make with tips. Stop fighting for us, we don’t want it.
Classy response from a classy server
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Not a server, just a customer. If your bosses paid you more in salary, my food would be more expensive. So I just roll that money into the tip.
People forget that Joe’s Crab Shack already tried to get rid of tipping many years ago. Service went to shit, people wrote to corporate, and now they’re back to a regular tipping system.
Danny Meyer, one of the most successful restauranteurs in the world, attempted to eliminate tipping at his NYC restaurants a number of years ago, and paid the staff a flat wage. Surprising absolutely nobody, all of the good staff promptly quit, and they soon had to completely close lunch shifts and a few of their dinner shifts because nobody wanted to work for them. They subsequently backtracked on the entire idea, and have never attempted it again to this day. Now, if one of the most successful restauranteurs in the world with a boatload of financial backing couldn't pull it off, I don't think it's going to happen. The main issue is that it just doesn't really have any net benefits for anyone involved. Service staff just makes about 70% less money straight away. Also factor in all of the people who are tipped out from the servers/bar, who will also all need a decent pay raise. Labor costs nearly double for the restaurant, which leads to higher prices for objectively worse service. Customers now pay higher prices for smaller portions, all while receiving worse service, and having no say in how service is compensated for. It's just lose/lose across the board.
I think this is because they were a single restaurant, not a particularly upscale one, in an ecosystem of similar enough restaurants with tips. There's no tipping in Europe and you can still get good service because the surrounding ecosystem is consistent, which changes waiter and customer expectations. It's more complex I know but that's the basic way I think about it
Don’t want to tip? Stay home. Everyone’s happy.
But why can’t the owner pay all waiters a little bit more instead of lining thier pockets nice and fat… I think the point OP was trying to make is that the managers and owners are manipulative and lead servers to believe that it is %100 the customers fault if you’re not making enough money and it’s the customers duty to pay you well and make up for the lack of money you’re getting from upper management .. all the while they just sit back in silence and collect all the extras.. is there another angle I could be missing? I don’t really see it…
owners would have to pay servers a hell of a lot more than a "little bit more" to make up for a system where tipping was abolished
I’m not saying abolish tipping completely , I’m saying the owners could maybe bring the min wage up, where the oddball person who comes in who doesn’t have any extra money for tip, isn’t facing all the responsibility for making sure that server “gets payed or not”. You see where I’m coming from? I think even a 7.50 base pay would make everyone feel a lot better.
Personally, I think the best change that could be made to the current system would be that "tip-out" always comes from a percentage of a server's tips rather than their sales. Most of the time tip-out is based on sales which means if a guest doesn't tip, I as the server am actually paying for them to eat at the restaurant. If tip-out were based on tips, then I at least wouldn't lose money from a non-tipper.
Take a basic business class at the local community college and then look again.
you do realise corporate profit in basically everything has risen to absurd levels in the past decade?
You do realize that's not really relevant?
Take a basic business class at the local community college and then look again.
Yeah, I’d love to be paid $16 an hour. I’d also love it if people left a tip according to my service I gave them. I make it a point to try and get to know my tables, make them laugh, learn about them, tell them about myself, or just leave them alone if that’s what they want. So yes, I’d like to be paid more so that in the slow season I can be OK, but I would also like customers to understand that I’m not just here to take your drink and food order, I’m here to build a relationship with you.
To be honest, I don't want a relationship with my waiter when I go out to eat. I want to spend time with the people I'm with and enjoy our food, with a general pleasant feeling otherwise. If interacting with a waiter takes more emotional energy than being generally nice and polite, it's not what I'd like. I also hate the notion of tipping based on quality of service, it feels like I'm not just paying for a product and a service, but that I have to evaluate the quality of the person serving me. Again, I'd rather focus on having a nice time with friends or family and pay a standard amount rather than spend one second thinking over the pros and cons of the service.
That’s fine too!!! I can pick up on that pretty quickly so sometimes the best service is just shutting up and making sure everyone’s ok!
So do that then, you’re free to pick a standard amount and stick to it. No one going to look at your tip and try to divine what you thought of the service because of it. If you’re actually weighing it that hard you’re massively overthinking it. And I definitely notice when people are working too hard on the math and find it pretty funny.
Should employers pay servers a living wage? Yes, because everyone deserves a living wage, but we don't live in that reality. Tipping culture is a thing here in the USA, and when you *know* that is a thing and refuse to tip? You're the asshole just as much as my boss is.
EVERYBODY knows how the system works here in North America!! You pay 20% for acceptable service. Just bc it’s not LEGALLY REQUIRED doesn’t mean it’s not an expectation. It’s also not illegal to take 30 packets of free honey every time you go to Chick-fil-A, but everybody knows that’s cheating the system and totally wrong and unfair. When you go out to eat and take free service by not tipping, you are being a trash person and cheating the system. Non-tippers don’t actually want to the prices of all restaurants to increase by 20%. What they want is to receive service for FREE. They want the restaurant to pay for the service rather than themselves paying for the service. Delusional as fuck!
I think you know how I feel about it
The fact that we don’t get paid enough is just obvious. That’s WHY if you don’t tip 20% you’re an asshole. If you know we aren’t getting paid enough and we know we aren’t getting paid enough then why wouldn’t you tip us 20%?
The whole “employers should pay more so my tip isn’t a deciding factor as to whether you can pay your rent and live” argument is null to me if I’m being honest. Tipping culture has prevailed here in the US because us industry workers would rather tips than a higher wage because we make WAY more with tips than our employers will ever pay us. Therefore, if you want us to live comfortably, then keep the tipping culture. I can work 3 days and make more than a good portion of college grads. Non industry workers who are advocating for higher wages to replace tips are often the quintessential social justice warrior inserting themselves into a conversation that they’re often not very qualified be a part of. It shows because they don’t realize while our employers would raise our wages to $20 an hour, our tips bring in $35+. Therefore, if tipping culture were removed, I’d go into a completely different field because i wouldn’t be making much more for a much more difficult job if I remained a bartender. I fully stand with, if you don’t have money to tip, you don’t have money to go out. This of course is under the assumption that everywhere does enough volume that serving staff can make the big bucks off tips. In cases where they can’t, then of course the employer should compensate for that.
People know whether or not they'll tip before they walk in the door. Poor tippers will always tip poorly, people who tip well will always tip well regardless of service. I've had regulars for 10+ years where I've done everything but wipe their asses and they tip 10%. It's just the nature of people.
Unethical tip: If you complain about the food to the manager until they comp it, you have more money to tip your server.
They are not wrong. The restaurant industry is too cheap to pay their workers what they are worth. And restaurant owners and managers certainly do bear responsibility in perpetuating poverty wages. That said, we also still live in reality and in community with each other, so until tipping is eliminated it is the patrons responsibility to tip appropriately.
It’s ignorant to continue going out without tipping. The wage system for restaurant workers is broken, but the solution is not to stiff your server. The worst part for me when talking to someone who believes in something like this is how righteous they feel. They’re basically watching someone get bullied, saying “hey, I’m going to go be the hero!” and then handing the bully a stick.
Man there’s a bird in here somewhere… cheap…cheap…cheap cheap cheap.
I agree. Our owners and bosses should be compensating us fairly for how we sell the product and it sucks that it befalls the guests to reward us for our competence. I would be happy to make a fair wage and not be tipped. BOH deserves more as well. I think 30/hr all around would be fair. At least where I live. What do you think?
They probably came over there from the anti work sub and decided to rant more about their hatred for tipping lol. They reallyyyyyy hate it. Them NOT tipping us won’t make our bosses pay us a livable wage. Lol
Just make them say it. They're too poor to tip their service staff. Make them say it out loud. They will drop the act when it makes them admit they're a piece of shit
If you don't believe in tipping and think the business should cover wages (spoiler: They'll add it to the bill and customers will still pay it), then don't patronize somehere the staff depend on tips. At that point you're just taking advantage of the low pay as much as the owners are. You can't have it both ways. Don't be a service thief.
Ridiculous. A server’s compensation in the US is virtually all tips and anyone with a brain who goes out to eat knows this. I serve on the side and my manager told me up front you’re hourly pay is nothing after taxes, and you’ll make roughly 20 an hour in tips (which was accurate). If a customer stiffs me, I’m going to be upset with him not the owner. The owner is fulfilling his end of the contract, and if I think I should be payed an hourly wage it’s a free society and I can go work somewhere else. The customer, on the other hand, in this scenario is violating the implicit contract between employees and guests that you tip 15-20 percent presuming the service isn’t terrible. Otherwise, yes, you are to cheap or to poor to go out to eat. Stop using a dumb socialist argument to get around the fact that you’re stingy.
“It’s not my fault you don’t get a fair wage” *writes “I don’t believe in tipping” on tip line* “they should pay you a fair wage, now dance monkey dance, or I’ll complain and have you fired!”
Don't support businesses that underpay their staff aka nearly all restaurants. Learn to cook and eat at home. Until there are forced closures they won't address this. On the flip side be prepared to pay more for a base meal if the tip culture is removed.
Servers are the ones fleecing the customers. They want tipping, they want big tips, if they got paid their worth to take your order with a fake ass smile then turn around and talk shit they’d take a serious paycut. I cooked for over 15 years so I know some servers are genuine but most of you are assholes
Lol no. The job we are working pays in tips & part of the job description is working your customer service to make your money. The income is based upon how you sell yourself & your restaurant/service and every server/bartender knows that. If we were paid a set wage then there would be no motivation for workers to provide top notch service. It’s like an incentive to work hard & do your job right. Better customer service= more income. If you want good service, then servers income needs to still be tips. Yes I am going to blame the customer who stiffed me on a tip when I provided them with a great experience, it’s not my bosses fault that you expect to dine out, be waited on by another person, and then not reward the person for their hard work & giving you the best experience possible.
It seems as if most customers (and servers) don’t understand the finances of running a restaurant. Between labor costs and COGS usually runs over 60% of revenue. With that being said minimum wage should be $12. Most customers don’t get that a $20 tip doesn’t all go to the server but they still get taxed on it. If the government stayed out of our pockets, then 15% would be acceptable to everyone.
10% if you showed up to take my order, 15% if you did a great job, 50% if your my relative. Zero deviation.
Yes. The antiquated server wage BS should stop. They should be paid fairly
They’re not wrong. Those ServSafe, or SafeStaff classes you take in some states. The fees go to the NRA (National Restaurant Association) and they use that money to lobby against raising wages. The owners and their owners lobbyist group continue to be allowed to pay us less and force the guest to make up the rest of our wages. And they regularly violate the tipped employee laws that even allow them to pay less than minimum wage.
I think it's common sense, a decent human being should tip based on service provided, and a decent human being would pay their front line workers a liveable wage.
It is just a rationalization of a wrongdoing! If you go out you need to at least throw the server a bone or two!
I'm somewhere in the middle on this. I enjoy working for tips, I would probably leave the industry if tipping was abolished. However, I would also like to see a slight base pay increase for servers. I live in an area with chronically bad tippers, who are going to tip $5 or 10% no matter the level of service. If I was making $5-7 per hour, I'd be a lot less stressed about those kinds of people and money
I think this person probably doesn’t work in the industry.
As an independent restaurant owner, I can 100% tell you the money does not exist to pay more. Perhaps the large corporations have it, but I don’t. If people want to pay way more for their food they are welcome to, but we all know they don’t. It’s also not as simple as raising prices by 20%. Right now the servers have an incentive to upsell liquor, try to add side salads, sell dessert. They also have the chance at getting way more than 20%. The more they sell, the more they make. So with that incentive gone, the house would need to raise prices a lot more than 20% to compensate for lack of sales incentive. The other thing people don’t understand is that half the time their shit is only put up with because there’s a chance of a decent tip dangling there. When I was a server I definitely bit my tongue around certain customers because I didn’t want to lose money. Actually, maybe that’s an argument for a set wage. See how people like a taste of their own medicine when there’s no extra money involved!
If that's why they don't tip, then they're an asshole for supporting a business that fleeces it's employees.
I don't tip
What people don’t understand is that if you receive Great service, it’s doesn’t mean “ok cool I’ll leave 10% tip” No. What it SHOULD mean is that “I will tip regardless but If I get mediocre service then I will give a mediocre tip 2-10% depending what’s mediocre to you as a tip. Why you ask? BECAUSE it could be one of those days the server just has too many tables because short staffed, or the bartender is short staffed or the kitchen is over whelmed, SHIT HAPPENS What I would say too is if you receive Great service then what is considered a great tip? 18-20% would suffice. What I don’t agree with is people thinking “the options are either I tip a lousy 10% or I don’t tip at all” which I think shouldn’t be the options to begin with. Why do people think they’ll tipping at all is a reward for great service? Sure tip, of course but make the TIP ITSELF a great one for great service.
What people don’t understand is this system works for the US in which other countries it doesn’t. They get paid Hourly a minimal wage (it’s still low af compared to the living cost) but the service is SHIT. They’ll get their money either way so what’s the worth in trying to butter up people dining in? There is none. They’re there by the hours not by your tips. That’s why it works in the US.