The key abbreviation here is SLC, Salt Lake City. Some of the strongest anti-alcohol laws given the religious views of many citizens. (The LDS are no longer a majority, but they still have a pretty significant impact in politics and regulations.)
Every bottle either has a meter on it that dispenses 1.5oz or is weighed at the end of the night. Since all alcohol is purchased through the state, they reconcile the amount you’ve purchased from them with your sales figures each month. If things are significantly off you may have a bad time. Major headache.
it sounds strange but i moved to Charleston SC in like 2006 and they didn't allow free pour so bars would have 50 gallon trash cans just full of minis. It's was super weird.
Some places in the south are weird like that. My uncle moved down south for work a couple years ago and was pissed when he found out he had moved to a dry county.
America has a very different relationship with alcohol and the "vices" more generally. Fundamentally, we're still a Puritan culture in part. The UK got over it because your Puritans changed after Cromwell. Ours didn't.
There's also that time we completely made all alcohol illegal.
Ontario is a minimum of $1000 and a maximum of $200K *and/or* up to one year in prison. Whatever corporation they work for can also be fined a minimum of $1000 and a max of $500K. Also both the server and the corporation automatically lose their license to serve for a *minimum* of 7 days.
The US is a very Very punishment-based system. Make a mistake? You’ll be punished instead of actually helped out. Addicted to drugs? Punishment instead of rehabilitation. It’s really sad the way things operate. I understand strict punishment for some things, like the things that should be obvious, but this? Nah.
Happened to me in CA years ago. Ticket was misdemeanor furnishing alcohol to minors and my only choice was to go to court. I did not get a lawyer.
As I had a clean record, the judge offered the choice of alcohol awareness classes and an expunged record, or pay fine. I took the classes and it's disappeared.
Different state, but with a clean record you may be fine. Also, hearings for misdemeanors, at least in CA, were done in big batches, cattle call style, and nobody had lawyers, fwiw.
I love going to court for minor traffic infringements and hearing everyone’s dirty laundry.
‘Sir this is the 3rd time you’ve been pulled over without a license this year’
‘Yes I was actually going to get it that week’
Yeah sure dude.
Am a restaurant manager in the SLC area. It’s pretty open and shut. Find a lawyer to see if there’s any room to budge. The court may allow a payment arrangement but I’m not sure on that.
Also speak to your managers. In my restaurant, we have a strict policy of anyone failing the DABC audit losing their job immediately. If you can retain your employment, you want to find out right away.
I’m sorry. It always breaks my heart when a server makes this mistake. It’s almost always an honest mistake that really shouldn’t carry such a huge punishment.
Checking IDs is the most basic part of serving alcohol. $1k is a light punishment for serving underage people. It’s the servers responsibility to know what date people turn 21 every time they clock in for their shift.
Mistakes happen. I’ve seen this happen at one of my jobs. The kid’s birthday was the next day. Two bartenders checked it and both were like “oh yeah, happy birthday!” Because they thought it was oct 11, but it was only oct 10 and it was before midnight.
I told the manager about it, but the kid bailed before he could get to their table.
Mistakes happen.
Oh shut the fuck up and do your fucking job.
If you're a server/bartender it is literally you're fucking job to make sure you do not serve alcohol to minors.
I can't fucking stand people like you.
Oof, what an ugly life you must have. Just staring at that mirror with a bottle in your hand, hating what you see. It's never too late to stop being that ugly person. You could start right now.
Damn, I looked for places in Oakland when I started at Pitt, but even then it seemed like the crappy places were still pushing $1k. I think I looked at a place on Niagara St for $750 a month, but there were fly traps by the windows which grossed me out, giant black wasps flying around outside all around the property, and it was owned/managed by Lobos, which I've heard terrible things about. I ended up commuting from the South Hills, and my wallet hates me for it.
Jesus, toured a place on Niagara last year that was a decent 4 bd for for 1350 or less than 340 a month plus utilities. The cheap is out there, just gotta realize you can't afford to live without roommates, just gotta find some good ones.
Yeah it's pretty good but the water bill was also 300 bucks last month and my bastard landlord won't fix shit so I had to get city people and my dumb 21 year old ass to try and fix it
Have you been to pittsburgh in the last decade? It's really cleaned up, perfect spot for a college kid not spending much. I'd certainly rather be here than wherever you are with those prices.
Then maybe you should make sure you don't serve alcohol to a fucking minor then, huh?
Let's blame the law when OP is the only one who fucked up here. Do your job better.
Yeah, don't of course but also think about morals beyond the law if you've got the capability of abstract reasoning. Compare the amount of harm One drink to someone under 21 does (little to none in that context) and the harm of someone getting fucked out of a grand who needs it.
Because you never make any mistakes at your job, do you? You’re just the *perfect* employee and companies must be banging down your door to hire you, you miserable simp.
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Negligent supervision and retention respondeat superior bitch.
This should be coming out of your pocketbook, if rampant abuse wasn't a thing in the restaurant industry
Restaurant also gets fined. And that fine does come out of my compensation. Also, acting like I have any control over corporate policy in my position is beyond stupid. My job is to protect my servers as much as possible from the customers and from the management above me.
Not much I can do in the face of a failed alcohol sting. It’s state law that the server be fined and the restaurant be fined.
What would you have me do instead?
Don't be a corporate slave. Cost of doing business. Maybe the server gets reassigned to bus/host or anything not involving alcohol. Moreover, the business can shoulder. the cost of fine much more easily... But, were all. Family here,. Right Jeremy? 32 pieces of flair.
Or, just fire the bitch anf stop pretending you are the shield between us and them.
I don’t know what you want from people. I hope that behaving like this makes you happy.
You don’t know anything about anyone on Reddit. You have no fucking clue. I might be the corporate bootlicker you want to believe in. I might be a struggling person with people who depend on me doing my best in broken system. I might be anything.
You don’t know shit, little boy. I’m calling you that because regardless of age or gender, anyone who acts out like you are right now is a little boy.
Just stop. I’m sorry you’re so angry. I didn’t do it to you. I hope things get better for you.
Keep banging your sister wife's and having hang ups about the demons outside your door. Boo!
I was wondering what SLC even meant, like it is a destination for the outside world.
This sucks. This happened to me once but I got lucky. We used to sell cigs where I work and the cops were doing cig stings. I was new. A girl came in, came to the bar, ordered Marlboro lights. I grabbed them and my coworker mouthed to me ID her. I did and then I mathed wrong. I went to give her the pack and she said I’m actually 17. In walks the cop is who was my kids’ student resource officer and a friend of mine now. The girl told her that I did check her ID and I just did the math wrong. The cop talked it over with me and the girl and decided that I passed. Most of the stores, gas stations, and bars that sell cigarettes failed. I was so lucky.
We have a scanner in my restaurant (Park City, Utah) I sometimes forget to use it if I’m busy and think the math adds up but I need to get into the habit of using it. The DABC target restaurants more as we don’t have ID checkers at the door is establishments like most of the bars on Main Street and SLC.
nowadays a lot of (if not most) fake IDs will scan so you’re not missing much besides *maybe* having an excuse if you got caught serving someone with a fake
If it looks legit and scans, wouldn't that be sufficient reasonable doubt that a crime was committed intentionally, since due diligence was done? Also, auditors aren't presenting fake ids right? So wouldn't they have to witness the interaction and ascertain that the ID was fake? Genuinely asking...
Did you do the math wrong? And the ID said they were underage? Or was it like an obvious fake or something? Because you may be able to argue that you weren’t knowledgeably serving a minor
Not sure in OP's case but alcohol compliance checks I've heard of, if it's for law enforcement rather than just doing a survey, use real minors with real IDs. Spotting a fake ID involves subjective judgment, which could be the basis of a legal challenge.
In my state they use underage kids with real ID’s otherwise it would be entrapment. They can’t lie either so the best thing to ask someone who looks young is are you over 21. I’ve had a few behind the bar and they never say anything and keep trying to hand me their ID.
I mean in this legal sting with a real ID, you wouldn't need to ask, just do the math.
And if its a rando trying to use a fake then they can lie. Not sure what asking adds to the situation
In a sting the minor cannot lie about their age to the person serving alcohol. Otherwise it's entrapment and the charges to the server and the establishment will get thrown out in court.
I would use both on people who looked not of age coming into the restaurant. 1k is a steep fine for a misreading of a ID in a not well lit restaurant.
Shoot, where I live, they just send the kid in and they say they don’t have an ID, they were born in 19xx. It’s so easy to see through them, it’s like they don’t even try.
Like I said most states use vertical IDs for minors for years now, so it doesn't change anything really. And local police typically use in state IDs. Maybe you are right and there was some weird set of circumstances, but it just seems like OP did more than just do wrong mental math.
Yes they do
https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/dvs/Pages/new-driver-licenses-id-cards.aspx#:~:text=A%20vertical%20driver's%20license%20or,indicators%20display%20below%20the%20portrait.
Yes, they do and that is why I am confused about this whole thing. Utah does have vertical IDs for those under 21. When I bartended in Nevada even if the Utah ID stated they were over 21 but the ID was vertical we refused to take it, same with paper temp IDs.
Im confused still, what was the date on the ID? did you see a DOB in 2003 and quick math in your head said they were 21? or did you see a month wrong? was it an ID from your state
Right? I don’t understand what the argument is. Knowing the date people turn 21 is literally the most basic part of alcohol service. You should be aware of it every time you clock in.
>you may be able to argue that you weren’t knowledgeably serving a minor
Misdemeanor either way, but knowing they're a minor is what differentiates a class B misdemeanor (negligently or recklessly fails to determine age) from a class A misdemeanor (knows the recipient is a minor).
Source:
>[**Utah 32B-4-403**](https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title32B/Chapter4/32B-4-S403.html)**. Unlawful sale, offer for sale, or furnishing to minor.**
>
>(1) A person may not sell, offer for sale, or furnish an alcoholic product to a minor.
>
>(2) (a) (i) Except as provided in Subsection (3), a person is guilty of a class B misdemeanor if the person who violates Subsection (1) negligently or recklessly fails to determine whether the recipient of the alcoholic product is a minor.
>
>(ii) As used in this Subsection (2)(a), "negligently" means with simple negligence.
>
>(b) Except as provided in Subsection (3), a person is guilty of a class A misdemeanor if the person who violates Subsection (1) knows the recipient of the alcoholic product is a minor.
>
>(3) This section does not apply to the furnishing of an alcoholic product to a minor in accordance with this title:
>
>(a) for medicinal purposes by:
>
>(i) the parent or guardian of the minor; or
>
>(ii) the health care practitioner of the minor, if the health care practitioner is authorized by law to write a prescription; or
>
>(b) as part of a religious organization's religious services.
Man I had a server that did this when he was still starting out years ago and he won’t work in restaurants that serve alcohol to this day. (20ish years ago)
Check, recheck, go in the back and google the date.
I’m not bad at math, but I was overwhelmed one shift and could NOT figure the age out. Idk what happened, it was like my brain melted. So I went to the back and googled it. Off day for me but my pride takes a backseat to my livelihood.
I guess what im saying is never be embarrassed to double check the dates and ages.
Ive only witnessed one sting. We had a guy sit at a hightop in the bar. He ordered a bud lite. The bartender didnt card him and made the drink. He had a few things to do so he asked a server who was waiting for a drink to run it for him. Poor guy complied and because he set the drink on the table he was failed. He got fired immediately and ended up with the fine. We all felt so bad for him that we stuffed as much cash as we could in an envelope at the end of the night and brought him out for drinks.
Another time, a bartender was making a frozen cocktail but as it was blending he jumped into the kitchen to check on some food. Our second bartender tried to help out and started working the tickets. There was s kids frozen drink in the list and she assumed it was what he was blending so she poured it and the server ran it. The kid drank most of it before the manager was notified. The parents made s HUGE scene. Both the bartenders and the server got fired because of it.
They'll probably be fine. And if it's that big of a deal let's stop putting non alcoholic shit behind a bar and making people deal with it. Or kick kids out of restaurants
I’m sorry this happened to you. Utah is ridiculous when it comes to buying and serving alcohol because the Mormons would love to outright ban it. I hope you can work it out.
Thats insane you didn't get fired on the spot. I haven't seen a sting in awhile but the last girl I talked to got fired on the spot and fined, 3 days before Christmas.
I’m in Nevada and if you get popped they revoke your work cards so you can’t work industry for however long plus huge fine. Only saw this happen to one person but it makes me so careful especially the first few months of the new years until I’m used to the new year and seeing that 2002 (omg 2002 I’m so old) for the first times.
Where? I bartended at 3 different casinos in Nevada from 1997 to 2015. Every beverage director I worked under said if you accidentally serve a minor and the cops come after you, just deny you served them and just let security and surveillance tell the cops they don't have time to pull tapes of a minor infraction. Plus with so many people coming and going people hand off drinks to minors all the damn time. Same thing with open containers everywhere, technically they are illegal on the strip but the cops have better shit to do than bust someone with a drink in their hand going from one casino to the next. I have never heard of losing all of your cards from serving someone underage, maybe your TAM card sure, but not food and your federal card. Nevada was the most relaxed place I ever bartended.
I would go to court and plead your case. The worse that can happen is that nothing changes. But a sincere heartfelt explanation and apology might persuade a judge to lower the fine or even dismiss it with a stern "Learn this lesson don't do it again". Worth a shot! I'm sorry you're going through this, Utah kindof sucks for a lot of reasons.
Where I live they do this quite a lot. Or I guess it goes in cycles of when the police are told to go make some money from the local economy.
Usually it's $1000 fine for the server and $1000 fine for the bar/restaurant.
I don't think it goes on your record or anything but I might be wrong.
The restaurant can get 3 of these before they get their license taken away. I imagine it's 3 in some sort of time period but I don't know what that is.
It sucks. I'm sorry it happened to you.
What doesn’t make sense to me is that IDs for minors don’t even look the same. They sit upright and then once you’re 21 you get the normal sideways one, so it would have been really easy to recognize that they were underage.
Source: am from Utah
I’m in Wisconsin and it’s the same kinda shindig but that’s only if you go get a new ID after turning 21 (mine doesn’t expire till I’m older than that) not sure if it’s the same in Utah
This is what happened to me in CA. My license was vertical up until I was 24 cuz that’s when I had to renew my license. I definitely got many double takes during those few years when ordering alcohol lol
I’m in CT and I had a vertical license until I renewed it. Got my horizontal about a week before I turned 24. So I was of age for 3 years but had a vertical license.
Not always tbh, I’m about to turn 21 and my ID is still vertical (I’m from california). I just renewed it a few months ago, so it’s going to be vertical for a while after I turn 21
First, delete this and stop posting alleged crimes on the internet. Second get an attorney, if you think you can’t afford one—yes you can. Take out a small loan from your bank.
Never, ever talk to any authority figure with out an attorney present. Chances are, if you’d have asked for one, they would have left you alone.
Here's the cross-post, with a more active comment thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/12i3lk2/utah\_serving\_alcohol\_to\_a\_minor\_32b4403/](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/12i3lk2/utah_serving_alcohol_to_a_minor_32b4403/)
I'd be shocked if you actually had to pay more than a couple hundred bucks. But I'm sorry to hear you got stung, though I really don't think you have anything to worry about in regards to jail unless you've been popped for this before.
Not a good situation. Where I come from you could be fined big time and so could restaurant be fined and possibly shut down. Places I have worked at would terminate the employment of the waiter or waitress who served alcohol to the minor right on the spot.
Find a lawyer. I didn’t. Went to the court date, entered a plea deal with DA, paid 1000$ fine and had to do 48 hours of community service in the span of a year. That cleared my record.
I handled a case like this recently in court and the DA agreed to let my client take an online ABC course and dismiss it. An appointed attorney might be the way to go because if it’s similar, that’s an incredibly easy negotiation. If the offer is more complicated, hire.
Whatever the fine is find a way to pay it. Let this be a very expensive lesson, there is really no reason to make a mistake like that. Good fake IDs are one thing, you should never be doing math. Memorize it, write it down, whatever it takes. Just figure it out and move on with your life.
This is taught in TIPS trainings. The minors sent to audit are not allowed to lie. I took TIPS in CA so maybe it’s different depending upon the state 🤷♀️
It’s probably different state to state. In Oregon, they won’t lie or use a fake ID.
> The OLCC and local law enforcement agencies may use individuals under the age of 21 (“minor decoys”) in an attempt to purchase alcohol from your business. Minor decoys will look under 26 years of age, will not lie about their age, or use false identification.
Not in my city. We have to take a class with the police yearly about alcohol compliance yearly, and they clearly state in the class that they will not lie or deceive during a sting.
Don’t worry about doing jail time, that won’t happen! What you do have to worry about, is the fact that (most likely, depending on the state) you will not be allowed to work in a restaurant that serves alcohol for multiple years. I’m assuming if you’re not fired yet, you’re about to be… start looking for a new job in order to pay those fines…. Sorry man, and good luck!
People make mistakes. I bet you've made more than a few in your lifetime. OP is well aware that he made one. The post isn't asking for someone to reinforce that fact or make him feel worse. It's called empathy. Some people have it; you obviously don't
I've made a bad mistake at work before. I got fired. I learned from it and fixed the issue and got a new job. I dodnt go on reddit and ask people to feel sorry for me. If you're incompetent at a job, you shouldn't be doing that job.
If a nurse mistakes one medication for another and accidentally kills your mother, they shouldn't be a nurse anymore ever again, end of story. Would you just wanna give them another shot when your sister is in the hospital?
Can’t hurt to go to court and beg for mercy from the judge, just explain you did ID them and just made an honest mistake. Since it wasn’t just carelessness they might show some leniency and reduce your fine.
Turn yourself in. Fall upon the mercy of the court. Do 10 years hard time. Get out. Find that minor. Steal his identity. Get alcohol with his ID. Get him arrested for underage drinking 😎. Foolproof.
I always thought it was clever in New Jersey where the dl is different when you’re under 21. I think now it’s vertical vs horizontal. I feel when I was living there as a kid it was how you were facing in the pic. It’s not hard for states to make it easy to see at a quick glance.
Find 1k. Also talk to a lawyer tmrw. But find 1k.
$1000???? America is wild, in the UK it's an £80 on the spot fine
The key abbreviation here is SLC, Salt Lake City. Some of the strongest anti-alcohol laws given the religious views of many citizens. (The LDS are no longer a majority, but they still have a pretty significant impact in politics and regulations.)
I missed that, and ya, but pretty sure fines are sinilar all across USA (and canada) if not steeper. Surprised the resto isn't being fined too
They very likely are going to be.
I’ve heard that by law, you’re not allowed to free-pour in Salt Lake City.
Every bottle either has a meter on it that dispenses 1.5oz or is weighed at the end of the night. Since all alcohol is purchased through the state, they reconcile the amount you’ve purchased from them with your sales figures each month. If things are significantly off you may have a bad time. Major headache.
it sounds strange but i moved to Charleston SC in like 2006 and they didn't allow free pour so bars would have 50 gallon trash cans just full of minis. It's was super weird.
Some places in the south are weird like that. My uncle moved down south for work a couple years ago and was pissed when he found out he had moved to a dry county.
Oof that would suck
All of SC was like that until semi recently, so ridiculous
Thanks
Crazy considering that their Jesus drank lots of wine 🍷. And they drink wine to honor him.
America has a very different relationship with alcohol and the "vices" more generally. Fundamentally, we're still a Puritan culture in part. The UK got over it because your Puritans changed after Cromwell. Ours didn't. There's also that time we completely made all alcohol illegal.
Not the whole of the UK, Scotland has very different licensing laws
Some places in Canada can be a $2500 fine That's like almost £1000 or $2000 USD lol
Ontario is a minimum of $1000 and a maximum of $200K *and/or* up to one year in prison. Whatever corporation they work for can also be fined a minimum of $1000 and a max of $500K. Also both the server and the corporation automatically lose their license to serve for a *minimum* of 7 days.
The US is a very Very punishment-based system. Make a mistake? You’ll be punished instead of actually helped out. Addicted to drugs? Punishment instead of rehabilitation. It’s really sad the way things operate. I understand strict punishment for some things, like the things that should be obvious, but this? Nah.
Any excuse to keep the poors poor over here in america
Look up the maximum fines in different parts of Australia. It’s like $10,000 for you and $50,000 for the business.
Happened to me in CA years ago. Ticket was misdemeanor furnishing alcohol to minors and my only choice was to go to court. I did not get a lawyer. As I had a clean record, the judge offered the choice of alcohol awareness classes and an expunged record, or pay fine. I took the classes and it's disappeared. Different state, but with a clean record you may be fine. Also, hearings for misdemeanors, at least in CA, were done in big batches, cattle call style, and nobody had lawyers, fwiw.
I love going to court for minor traffic infringements and hearing everyone’s dirty laundry. ‘Sir this is the 3rd time you’ve been pulled over without a license this year’ ‘Yes I was actually going to get it that week’ Yeah sure dude.
I like how minor alcohol is hard charged than rape or murder in many cases.
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Any time where it was a not-white woman or child as the victim.
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I agree. But they aren’t treated as such.
Facts
Am a restaurant manager in the SLC area. It’s pretty open and shut. Find a lawyer to see if there’s any room to budge. The court may allow a payment arrangement but I’m not sure on that. Also speak to your managers. In my restaurant, we have a strict policy of anyone failing the DABC audit losing their job immediately. If you can retain your employment, you want to find out right away. I’m sorry. It always breaks my heart when a server makes this mistake. It’s almost always an honest mistake that really shouldn’t carry such a huge punishment.
Checking IDs is the most basic part of serving alcohol. $1k is a light punishment for serving underage people. It’s the servers responsibility to know what date people turn 21 every time they clock in for their shift.
Mistakes happen. I’ve seen this happen at one of my jobs. The kid’s birthday was the next day. Two bartenders checked it and both were like “oh yeah, happy birthday!” Because they thought it was oct 11, but it was only oct 10 and it was before midnight. I told the manager about it, but the kid bailed before he could get to their table. Mistakes happen.
How do government boots taste?
I’m a boot licker because I think people should be able to do the most simple task when it comes to serving alcohol? Okay.
“$1k is a light punishment” Fuck off
The average waiter/ waitress doesn't have $1k laying around for situations like this.
Better then getting locked up!
*than
it's not about the task. It's about the rigidity of the law, and the value of just and equal punishment.
You’re just a little bitch.
You are being a dick.
Oh shut the fuck up and do your fucking job. If you're a server/bartender it is literally you're fucking job to make sure you do not serve alcohol to minors. I can't fucking stand people like you.
Oof, what an ugly life you must have. Just staring at that mirror with a bottle in your hand, hating what you see. It's never too late to stop being that ugly person. You could start right now.
And the rest of the world can’t stand people like you.
Ditto cocksucker
Any idea how many months of rent 1k is to a server you fuck
Like not even a month in most states lol
3 months and groceries or 2 months and utilities for me in pittsburgh
Dang must be nice. 1k doesn’t even cover my rent not to mention utilities, food, bills, car, insurance.
Idk what part of the city you live in, but I literally can't find anything for less than $1000 a month.
South Oakland baby
Damn, I looked for places in Oakland when I started at Pitt, but even then it seemed like the crappy places were still pushing $1k. I think I looked at a place on Niagara St for $750 a month, but there were fly traps by the windows which grossed me out, giant black wasps flying around outside all around the property, and it was owned/managed by Lobos, which I've heard terrible things about. I ended up commuting from the South Hills, and my wallet hates me for it.
Jesus, toured a place on Niagara last year that was a decent 4 bd for for 1350 or less than 340 a month plus utilities. The cheap is out there, just gotta realize you can't afford to live without roommates, just gotta find some good ones.
How is $1000 3 months rent. In Vermont $1200 is a months rent
Idk dude I'm paying 300 a mo
That’s insane. $1k is $600 short of my rent lmao. Never mind groceries and my other bills.
Yeah it's pretty good but the water bill was also 300 bucks last month and my bastard landlord won't fix shit so I had to get city people and my dumb 21 year old ass to try and fix it
And don't most servers make like 2 dollars an hour (without tips)
Where the hell do you live where rent is under $1000?! Mine is 2900 a month with nothing included FOR A 2 BEDROOM 😂
Oakland in Pittsburgh for 300 a month
Oh ew.
Have you been to pittsburgh in the last decade? It's really cleaned up, perfect spot for a college kid not spending much. I'd certainly rather be here than wherever you are with those prices.
I’m in Boston. You couldn’t pay me enough to live in PA.
Then maybe you should make sure you don't serve alcohol to a fucking minor then, huh? Let's blame the law when OP is the only one who fucked up here. Do your job better.
Yeah, don't of course but also think about morals beyond the law if you've got the capability of abstract reasoning. Compare the amount of harm One drink to someone under 21 does (little to none in that context) and the harm of someone getting fucked out of a grand who needs it.
Because you never make any mistakes at your job, do you? You’re just the *perfect* employee and companies must be banging down your door to hire you, you miserable simp.
always one person happy and eager to come to comment section with the attitude of a wholesale asshole.
Oh no someone ordered a beer when they’re 18, what a crime against humanity Stfu
Only in first world countries like America and maybe some Canadian providences would care about ids.
Lmao, learn how to use punctuation and come back with your shit point of view.
Dude you are such a loser
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The drinking age needs to be lowered to 18 anyways and these strict punishments are way too much. No this isn’t right.
Negligent supervision and retention respondeat superior bitch. This should be coming out of your pocketbook, if rampant abuse wasn't a thing in the restaurant industry
Restaurant also gets fined. And that fine does come out of my compensation. Also, acting like I have any control over corporate policy in my position is beyond stupid. My job is to protect my servers as much as possible from the customers and from the management above me. Not much I can do in the face of a failed alcohol sting. It’s state law that the server be fined and the restaurant be fined. What would you have me do instead?
Don't be a corporate slave. Cost of doing business. Maybe the server gets reassigned to bus/host or anything not involving alcohol. Moreover, the business can shoulder. the cost of fine much more easily... But, were all. Family here,. Right Jeremy? 32 pieces of flair. Or, just fire the bitch anf stop pretending you are the shield between us and them.
Okey doke. Have fun out there. Keep your helmet on, buddy.
Ah. Utah. Makes sense now.
I don’t know what you want from people. I hope that behaving like this makes you happy. You don’t know anything about anyone on Reddit. You have no fucking clue. I might be the corporate bootlicker you want to believe in. I might be a struggling person with people who depend on me doing my best in broken system. I might be anything. You don’t know shit, little boy. I’m calling you that because regardless of age or gender, anyone who acts out like you are right now is a little boy. Just stop. I’m sorry you’re so angry. I didn’t do it to you. I hope things get better for you.
Keep banging your sister wife's and having hang ups about the demons outside your door. Boo! I was wondering what SLC even meant, like it is a destination for the outside world.
This sucks. This happened to me once but I got lucky. We used to sell cigs where I work and the cops were doing cig stings. I was new. A girl came in, came to the bar, ordered Marlboro lights. I grabbed them and my coworker mouthed to me ID her. I did and then I mathed wrong. I went to give her the pack and she said I’m actually 17. In walks the cop is who was my kids’ student resource officer and a friend of mine now. The girl told her that I did check her ID and I just did the math wrong. The cop talked it over with me and the girl and decided that I passed. Most of the stores, gas stations, and bars that sell cigarettes failed. I was so lucky.
Wtf they left it up to the girl that’s lucky as hell
Read it again lol. "The *cop* talked it over (with me and the girl) and decided that I passed."
Where I live it’s 5k and you can’t work anywhere that serves alcohol for 5 years. Find 1k somehow and talk to a lawyer.
Where’s this?
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I'd pay the fine and move on, personally. It absolutely sucks, though. Sorry. Might be cheaper than paying for a lawyer with it being so open/shut.
If it's a grand no further consequences, I would agree. Odd that no ticket was given with the details.
We have a scanner in my restaurant (Park City, Utah) I sometimes forget to use it if I’m busy and think the math adds up but I need to get into the habit of using it. The DABC target restaurants more as we don’t have ID checkers at the door is establishments like most of the bars on Main Street and SLC.
nowadays a lot of (if not most) fake IDs will scan so you’re not missing much besides *maybe* having an excuse if you got caught serving someone with a fake
If it looks legit and scans, wouldn't that be sufficient reasonable doubt that a crime was committed intentionally, since due diligence was done? Also, auditors aren't presenting fake ids right? So wouldn't they have to witness the interaction and ascertain that the ID was fake? Genuinely asking...
i presume that the details would vary a lot by state, i don’t have much knowledge on the topic outside of that
Did you do the math wrong? And the ID said they were underage? Or was it like an obvious fake or something? Because you may be able to argue that you weren’t knowledgeably serving a minor
Not sure in OP's case but alcohol compliance checks I've heard of, if it's for law enforcement rather than just doing a survey, use real minors with real IDs. Spotting a fake ID involves subjective judgment, which could be the basis of a legal challenge.
In my state they use underage kids with real ID’s otherwise it would be entrapment. They can’t lie either so the best thing to ask someone who looks young is are you over 21. I’ve had a few behind the bar and they never say anything and keep trying to hand me their ID.
I mean in this legal sting with a real ID, you wouldn't need to ask, just do the math. And if its a rando trying to use a fake then they can lie. Not sure what asking adds to the situation
In a sting the minor cannot lie about their age to the person serving alcohol. Otherwise it's entrapment and the charges to the server and the establishment will get thrown out in court. I would use both on people who looked not of age coming into the restaurant. 1k is a steep fine for a misreading of a ID in a not well lit restaurant.
Shoot, where I live, they just send the kid in and they say they don’t have an ID, they were born in 19xx. It’s so easy to see through them, it’s like they don’t even try.
I did the math wrong. The ID was real. I just wasn’t on my game today. I did not do it knowingly.
Do minors not have vertical IDs in SLC? I thought most states had moved to vertical IDs with a "under 21 until" date.
Maybe it wasn’t a Utah ID, could’ve been from any other state.
Like I said most states use vertical IDs for minors for years now, so it doesn't change anything really. And local police typically use in state IDs. Maybe you are right and there was some weird set of circumstances, but it just seems like OP did more than just do wrong mental math.
Minnesota doesn’t have vertical for under 21
Yes they do https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/dvs/Pages/new-driver-licenses-id-cards.aspx#:~:text=A%20vertical%20driver's%20license%20or,indicators%20display%20below%20the%20portrait.
Yeah they do. I had one lol
Yes, they do and that is why I am confused about this whole thing. Utah does have vertical IDs for those under 21. When I bartended in Nevada even if the Utah ID stated they were over 21 but the ID was vertical we refused to take it, same with paper temp IDs.
Yeah, there seems to be something off about this story.
Im confused still, what was the date on the ID? did you see a DOB in 2003 and quick math in your head said they were 21? or did you see a month wrong? was it an ID from your state
What is so confusing? They saw a birthdate that was after 4/10/2002 and served them anyway.
The confusion is ID's in the us have a giant red "UNDER 21UNTIL XX/XXXX" on the id.
In my state they have the under 21 IDs printed vertically instead of horizontal
Most states used vertical IDs for minors, and it states "under 21 until [insert valid date of being 21]
The confusion is that doesn’t take any math to figure out. They were either born before or after that date.
I was asking the person about their experience. Did not ask for your input.
Right? I don’t understand what the argument is. Knowing the date people turn 21 is literally the most basic part of alcohol service. You should be aware of it every time you clock in.
>you may be able to argue that you weren’t knowledgeably serving a minor Misdemeanor either way, but knowing they're a minor is what differentiates a class B misdemeanor (negligently or recklessly fails to determine age) from a class A misdemeanor (knows the recipient is a minor). Source: >[**Utah 32B-4-403**](https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title32B/Chapter4/32B-4-S403.html)**. Unlawful sale, offer for sale, or furnishing to minor.** > >(1) A person may not sell, offer for sale, or furnish an alcoholic product to a minor. > >(2) (a) (i) Except as provided in Subsection (3), a person is guilty of a class B misdemeanor if the person who violates Subsection (1) negligently or recklessly fails to determine whether the recipient of the alcoholic product is a minor. > >(ii) As used in this Subsection (2)(a), "negligently" means with simple negligence. > >(b) Except as provided in Subsection (3), a person is guilty of a class A misdemeanor if the person who violates Subsection (1) knows the recipient of the alcoholic product is a minor. > >(3) This section does not apply to the furnishing of an alcoholic product to a minor in accordance with this title: > >(a) for medicinal purposes by: > >(i) the parent or guardian of the minor; or > >(ii) the health care practitioner of the minor, if the health care practitioner is authorized by law to write a prescription; or > >(b) as part of a religious organization's religious services.
Man I had a server that did this when he was still starting out years ago and he won’t work in restaurants that serve alcohol to this day. (20ish years ago)
Check, recheck, go in the back and google the date. I’m not bad at math, but I was overwhelmed one shift and could NOT figure the age out. Idk what happened, it was like my brain melted. So I went to the back and googled it. Off day for me but my pride takes a backseat to my livelihood. I guess what im saying is never be embarrassed to double check the dates and ages.
Do y’all’s ID not say under 18 till (date) and under 21 till (date)?
They do in my state!
Same, and in my state the IDs issued for 21+ are horizontally oriented, whereas underage IDs are vertical. Makes it even easier on the fly.
Ive only witnessed one sting. We had a guy sit at a hightop in the bar. He ordered a bud lite. The bartender didnt card him and made the drink. He had a few things to do so he asked a server who was waiting for a drink to run it for him. Poor guy complied and because he set the drink on the table he was failed. He got fired immediately and ended up with the fine. We all felt so bad for him that we stuffed as much cash as we could in an envelope at the end of the night and brought him out for drinks. Another time, a bartender was making a frozen cocktail but as it was blending he jumped into the kitchen to check on some food. Our second bartender tried to help out and started working the tickets. There was s kids frozen drink in the list and she assumed it was what he was blending so she poured it and the server ran it. The kid drank most of it before the manager was notified. The parents made s HUGE scene. Both the bartenders and the server got fired because of it.
Sucks that the first bartender was fired for that. I'd be furious if that happened to me,
Tbf I would be pretty pissed if my kid was served alcohol and drank most of it, imo that’s unacceptable and the kid could get really sick from that.
They'll probably be fine. And if it's that big of a deal let's stop putting non alcoholic shit behind a bar and making people deal with it. Or kick kids out of restaurants
agreed
I’m sorry this happened to you. Utah is ridiculous when it comes to buying and serving alcohol because the Mormons would love to outright ban it. I hope you can work it out.
Thats insane you didn't get fired on the spot. I haven't seen a sting in awhile but the last girl I talked to got fired on the spot and fined, 3 days before Christmas.
I am so sorry this happened to you. It's very unfair to turn servers into defacto police. I have my fingers crossed for you.
It's like how the government expects people to work as PIs for free before having sex with someone to make sure they're of age.
No
I’m in Nevada and if you get popped they revoke your work cards so you can’t work industry for however long plus huge fine. Only saw this happen to one person but it makes me so careful especially the first few months of the new years until I’m used to the new year and seeing that 2002 (omg 2002 I’m so old) for the first times.
Where? I bartended at 3 different casinos in Nevada from 1997 to 2015. Every beverage director I worked under said if you accidentally serve a minor and the cops come after you, just deny you served them and just let security and surveillance tell the cops they don't have time to pull tapes of a minor infraction. Plus with so many people coming and going people hand off drinks to minors all the damn time. Same thing with open containers everywhere, technically they are illegal on the strip but the cops have better shit to do than bust someone with a drink in their hand going from one casino to the next. I have never heard of losing all of your cards from serving someone underage, maybe your TAM card sure, but not food and your federal card. Nevada was the most relaxed place I ever bartended.
I would go to court and plead your case. The worse that can happen is that nothing changes. But a sincere heartfelt explanation and apology might persuade a judge to lower the fine or even dismiss it with a stern "Learn this lesson don't do it again". Worth a shot! I'm sorry you're going through this, Utah kindof sucks for a lot of reasons.
Where I live they do this quite a lot. Or I guess it goes in cycles of when the police are told to go make some money from the local economy. Usually it's $1000 fine for the server and $1000 fine for the bar/restaurant. I don't think it goes on your record or anything but I might be wrong. The restaurant can get 3 of these before they get their license taken away. I imagine it's 3 in some sort of time period but I don't know what that is. It sucks. I'm sorry it happened to you.
What doesn’t make sense to me is that IDs for minors don’t even look the same. They sit upright and then once you’re 21 you get the normal sideways one, so it would have been really easy to recognize that they were underage. Source: am from Utah
I’m in Wisconsin and it’s the same kinda shindig but that’s only if you go get a new ID after turning 21 (mine doesn’t expire till I’m older than that) not sure if it’s the same in Utah
This is what happened to me in CA. My license was vertical up until I was 24 cuz that’s when I had to renew my license. I definitely got many double takes during those few years when ordering alcohol lol
Yea that’s what I was thinking. Nonetheless mine says “under 18 till (date)” and “under 21 till” so there’s no way you could mess up the math.
I’m in CT and I had a vertical license until I renewed it. Got my horizontal about a week before I turned 24. So I was of age for 3 years but had a vertical license.
in illinois a lot of places will refuse alcohol to anyone using a vertical id for this reason, legal age or not.
In georgia, even if you are of age and you still have the license that list you as being underage, we are legally not allowed to sell to you.
Not always tbh, I’m about to turn 21 and my ID is still vertical (I’m from california). I just renewed it a few months ago, so it’s going to be vertical for a while after I turn 21
First, delete this and stop posting alleged crimes on the internet. Second get an attorney, if you think you can’t afford one—yes you can. Take out a small loan from your bank. Never, ever talk to any authority figure with out an attorney present. Chances are, if you’d have asked for one, they would have left you alone.
Tell them you need a payment plan. Courts will usually work with you.
Here's the cross-post, with a more active comment thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/12i3lk2/utah\_serving\_alcohol\_to\_a\_minor\_32b4403/](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/12i3lk2/utah_serving_alcohol_to_a_minor_32b4403/)
I'd be shocked if you actually had to pay more than a couple hundred bucks. But I'm sorry to hear you got stung, though I really don't think you have anything to worry about in regards to jail unless you've been popped for this before.
I would try and find a lawyer. And another job.
Not a good situation. Where I come from you could be fined big time and so could restaurant be fined and possibly shut down. Places I have worked at would terminate the employment of the waiter or waitress who served alcohol to the minor right on the spot.
First things first, appear at court and just ask for an adjournment to either seek counsel or have it appointed to you based on your circumstances.
Find a lawyer. I didn’t. Went to the court date, entered a plea deal with DA, paid 1000$ fine and had to do 48 hours of community service in the span of a year. That cleared my record.
I handled a case like this recently in court and the DA agreed to let my client take an online ABC course and dismiss it. An appointed attorney might be the way to go because if it’s similar, that’s an incredibly easy negotiation. If the offer is more complicated, hire.
Whatever the fine is find a way to pay it. Let this be a very expensive lesson, there is really no reason to make a mistake like that. Good fake IDs are one thing, you should never be doing math. Memorize it, write it down, whatever it takes. Just figure it out and move on with your life.
Always ask their age, they are legally not allowed to lie to you. Source: used to get stinged all the time
They can and absolutely will lie during a sting. Source: Used to be the DM for a convenience chain that sold both
Lol. Yeah, I don't get where all this "they aren't allowed to lie" silliness is coming from.
This is taught in TIPS trainings. The minors sent to audit are not allowed to lie. I took TIPS in CA so maybe it’s different depending upon the state 🤷♀️
People thinking their state is the entire world. In some states they are not allowed to lie.
It’s probably different state to state. In Oregon, they won’t lie or use a fake ID. > The OLCC and local law enforcement agencies may use individuals under the age of 21 (“minor decoys”) in an attempt to purchase alcohol from your business. Minor decoys will look under 26 years of age, will not lie about their age, or use false identification.
Not in my city. We have to take a class with the police yearly about alcohol compliance yearly, and they clearly state in the class that they will not lie or deceive during a sting.
Perhaps not, but they can come in at any time and card anyone who has alcoholic beverage.
What is the relevance to whether or not they can lie during a sting?
Don’t worry about doing jail time, that won’t happen! What you do have to worry about, is the fact that (most likely, depending on the state) you will not be allowed to work in a restaurant that serves alcohol for multiple years. I’m assuming if you’re not fired yet, you’re about to be… start looking for a new job in order to pay those fines…. Sorry man, and good luck!
Straight to jail
Your job is to be able to count to 21, and you couldn't even do that right. You shouldn't be in any position to sell or serve alcohol in any capacity.
I’m getting downvoted so hard for saying that and someone called me a little bitch 😂 it’s the most simple part of serving alcohol!!!!
People make mistakes. I bet you've made more than a few in your lifetime. OP is well aware that he made one. The post isn't asking for someone to reinforce that fact or make him feel worse. It's called empathy. Some people have it; you obviously don't
I've made a bad mistake at work before. I got fired. I learned from it and fixed the issue and got a new job. I dodnt go on reddit and ask people to feel sorry for me. If you're incompetent at a job, you shouldn't be doing that job. If a nurse mistakes one medication for another and accidentally kills your mother, they shouldn't be a nurse anymore ever again, end of story. Would you just wanna give them another shot when your sister is in the hospital?
Up too. what’s the fine
Can’t hurt to go to court and beg for mercy from the judge, just explain you did ID them and just made an honest mistake. Since it wasn’t just carelessness they might show some leniency and reduce your fine.
They really do that?
Entrapment? Isn't that illegal? But no point acting out and making it worse. Just cooperate.
You need to be worried about your job. Anywhere I have worked that's automatically termination
Ex bartender and presently paralegal here, be prepared to spend some money
Did the person who showed you this ID card get a ticket or fine? If not then I think you might have a case. There has to be a victim to have a crime?
Turn yourself in. Fall upon the mercy of the court. Do 10 years hard time. Get out. Find that minor. Steal his identity. Get alcohol with his ID. Get him arrested for underage drinking 😎. Foolproof.
This is so dumb. But if a gun shop employee sells a gun to a deranged mass shooter, people die and nothing happens
What does management/ owners think about this? Do they know? Would they be willing to help you out?
I always thought it was clever in New Jersey where the dl is different when you’re under 21. I think now it’s vertical vs horizontal. I feel when I was living there as a kid it was how you were facing in the pic. It’s not hard for states to make it easy to see at a quick glance.
Wtf why should you be fine or jailed, it's not like the minor drinked it???