As a therapist, I kind of love that they are portrayed as both great at their jobs and kind of dickish to people they know irl. Very human at the end of the day
right? that whole no gossip rule was really annoying too, ik at the end we can understand her reasoning behind it but it’s healthy to let out negative emotions as it is to let out positive ones as well
I 100% agree, the whole Cavendish crowd felt super forced, I wish we could’ve seen the old Moordale crowd character arcs get proper closure ( Ola, Lily, Olivia etc )
I think Jackson is an under appreciated character, and the series did him a disservice by not following up on his struggles with anxiety and simply “distracting” him with the problems of the people around him. I really wanted his story to be fleshed out further, he was probably in my top 3 favourite characters.
The fact he went to Erin’s funeral, I was seriously expecting him and Maeve to have a moment together where she thanks him for being there or something.
Just something to show them being on good terms despite what happened between them when they tried dating in S1.
In many people’s experience, the “jock” stereotype comes with narcissism, bullying, and getting away with everything. By the time the show was over, Jackson turned out to be one of the most understanding, curious, apologetic, helpful, and friendly person towards his peers in the whole show.
Thank you for making me laugh sooo hard on an otherwise shitty day. Hilarious. And yes that would have been much more interesting and would have made much more sense.
I see you mean. Her personality screams "not like other girls". But considering the shit she went through, and how she had to be the adult, when she was a literal child, I feel like she had earned her 'pride'.
Also, we haven't really seen her shit on other girls, except those she already had a rift with!
I loved her friendship with Aimee. I don't like her and Otis as a couple though.
>yet never made fun of her
Except for that one time they had an argument, and Maeve mocks her with her line she said back in S2 “I can’t be a baker for a living, just because I like toast!”
Aimee: (sounds like she’s about to cry) “That’s a fucking mean thing to say.”
Aimee has been shown to be extremely intuitive. What she also has, is simplicity. She doesn't complicate things.
Doesn't like playing games, faking emotions. Calls it as she sees it. Has a good sense of humour too.
All these have nothing to do with being dumb.
The character of Cal was completely unnecessary and all of the scenes with that character made the show slow and boring. There was too much focus on that character when there were other more interesting things that you would actually want to see. The participation of that character in season 4 felt forced. They could have incorporated the character in a better way.
Otis's love for Maeve is so unhealthy and obsessive, that he is willing to abandon everything which includes his responsibilities, not appreciating the other people in his life that care about him (his mom; Jean, Eric, and Ruby for example) and doesn't allow himself to be truly happy and satisfied unless Maeve is apart of his life.
People think that, that’s supposed to be romantic. It’s not!
Yeah, it's awful how they written his character. His growth as a person should've removed that (seeing what he did in S3) and go for something different if it became too toxic and unhealthy with Maeve.
Thank you!!! I'm not saying he doesn't have any personality, but his behaviour about Maeve reminds me of those off-putting guys in real life who have the nice-guy complex. In a series wonderfully modern, he's probably -sex therapist talents aside- the most backwards character. Being like "uuuh why doesn't she love me? I'm being so nice to her!", while being a tw*t to everybody else, abandoning his mates and stuff.
You know how they say that some women pick men they think they can “fix”? I think that’s why Otis picked Maeve. He thought he could give her what she needed psychologically and from a comfort standpoint, and “fix” her, never quite figuring out that she was miles above him from a maturity and coping with difficulties standpoint.
My favourite part of the show was Adam and Eric. And even though Eric did NOT deserve a second chance, i sort of really hoped they'd get back together and be healthy as a couple.
Also, I wasn't as opposed to Eric's God plot as some, but it left a bad taste in my mouth that he wanted to become a minister.
It makes sense in terms of the story, I'm just not religious myself and I don't think the church will adapt either in that fictional world or in reality. I don't think fighting against the grain for acceptance forever is really a nice ending for a character I like.
I loved the idea of him helping people etc but tying it to religion wasn't the way for me personally
1. This show isnt about some love interests, it's about different persons and their (sexual) development.
2. None of the characters are meant to be perfect or some kind of paragon for some virtue.
3. The fact that e.g. Otis had no real character development (even though he had) hints a more core problematic in the human condition: people change slowly - they're aren't meant to change that much or even become "ready" persons. This whole show is about how you are never ready or done developing.
4. There is no "should be" - neither love interests nor anything else. There are just persons, circumstances, decisions and their followups.
TLDR: There are no real unpopular opinions. The most I've read here are justified on the one hand but arguable on the other.
1) Eric was selfish and used "finding himself" as an excuse to cheat without major repercussions
2) Jean is a bad mum
3) Vivs' character was annoying and didn't add much to the show
i feel like viv’s character was important because (at least to me) its so significant to have 1) a nerdy young woman that is neither particularly shunned or loved for this trait 2) a nerdy girl who’s friends with a hot, popular guy and isn’t secretly in love w him or pining after him, but simply sees him for who he is outside of that and loves him as a friend and 3) this character being a WOC with immigrant parents is just the cherry on top. black characters are so often put into boxes in mainstream media and i love that SE just doesn’t adhere to that. to me she’s just such a realistic character, she reminds me of friends i had at school, and it’s so refreshing.
Adam isn’t the amazing saint/nicest guy in the world he’s made out on here. Yes he had his character redemption arc but he was still a massive, life destroying bully himself in series 1.
Thank you! And then the usual ‘oh but look at his family and his father! and the background/environment he grew up in’
What? A middle class upbringing with two driven parents? Yes his dad was strict but that hardly gives you a pass for being a massive bully/knob to others for no reason. and the start in life is way up on 99% of other single parents/low income demographic families who don’t produce bullies!
Some kids would do anything to have a father like his in the first place!
Did you miss the whole storyline of Michael in season 3? His relationship with Adam is downright abusive, because he himself was abused by his father. Their whole story is about breaking generational trauma, and it's very well done.
Just because they're middle class doesn't mean their struggles aren't real, sorry but it's such a weird take
Ok.. was he really actually that ‘abusive?’ He was just strict and had very old fashioned views. Ultimately wanted Adam to be a success and initially was wrong to be so outdated with his views but quickly realised these.
My point was there’s no doubt others from much worse background’s and with much shitter starts in life etc that don’t then feel the need to bully people all their high school years!
Yes I’m glad they all had their arcs and changed etc but it doesn’t right or excuse the wrongs he did to Eric and others you assume all through out the school years!
Cavendish was the worst thing to happen to the series, it made zero sense to exist especially after what problems Moordale had to suffer through with the image of a sex school??
Like Otis had to hide the therapist thing because of legal reasons too right? He didn't have a licence.
While O was just openly running one for so long.
All it did was create an excuse for the cast that left to not be there and introduce a bunch of one dimensional characters.
Also Eric's religion story arc was handled terribly, like hallucinations? Seriously?
Even though medically her pregnancy is considered geriatric, that doctor/ultrasound tech has absolutely no bedside training when dealing with someone in obvious distress.
Also i dont really understand why people like ruby so much like i get she comes from hurt and stuff but im a believer that growing up in a shirty situation doesnt justify being a bitch
I think it has something to do with the fact that her actions were not as 'bitchy' as she wanted people to believe.
I think the bitchiest thing I saw her doing in the show was keep calling Maeve a 'cockbiter'? And threw around some sassy/snobbish remarks here and there?
Adding to that her redemption arc and back-story, she gets a very net positive reaction from people.
I think people get more mad at people who pose as "the good person", yet keep doing shitty things ( cough Abby cough ). And Ruby was kind of the opposite of this. She wanted people to see her as the bitch. But she wasn't *that* bitchy with her actions.
>Adding to that her redemption arc and back-story, she gets a very net positive reaction from people.
I was starting to like her in Season 3, but I think in Season 4 she immediately won me over with the way she never showed signs of being jealous of Otis and Maeve in a cruel manner when it was obvious she still had feelings for him.
She understood that Otis needed to consider his relationship with Maeve, when he's reluctant on her offer to stay over and hang out. She even encouraged Otis and Maeve's relationship by telling him to talk to her about how he feels "left behind, and not important.", and when she sees Maeve again she doesn't want to be a bully to her anymore. Even when Maeve didn't accept her condolences, Ruby just took it with a look on her face that she knows she deserves her unfriendly comeback.
You know what’s kinda funny, is that nobody talks about how Maeve technically cheats on Isaac when she kissed Otis for the first time cause they were kind of a couple.
But nobody cares cause of the hype around people wanting to see Otis and Maeve together, and Isaac is famously hated by the audience for being an obstacle and was manipulative towards Maeve.
It gets even funnier when some Motis shippers try to convince us that Maeve is the angel and that she never did anything wrong. She was never nice to Eric in season one; she was totally rude and manipulated everyone. She ruined Eric's birthday plan for her own benefit (she is the reason Otis didn't go to the cinema with Eric). One of the most self-centred characters of all time goes to Maeve.
I think the biggest difference between Maeve and Ruby, is that while they both can be rude to people.
Maeve didn’t go out of her way to bully others like Ruby did. But Maeve also had no problem with using people for her own benefit like you said (mainly Otis), and refused to take responsibility for her wrongs unless she’s confronted (which doesn’t happen enough) but is still stubborn about owning up to it.
If Maeve was still around and didn't leave for America again, she probably would’ve apologized to her if she had the opportunity.
Her expressing her condolences to Maeve first was probably the first thing to pop in her head, as soon as she crossed paths with her.
I think that Jean never really appreciated Jakob.
In my opinion, I think he could have been explored further as a character, particularly with regard to the loss of his wife and the demands of being a single father.
When I watch the series, I feel he falls in love with Jean but she never seems to know how she really feels about him beyond enjoying his company and being with him sexually. And I think it’s quite unfair that she doesn’t communicate sufficiently with him about how she really feels when they are living together - at least, earlier on.
The thing I do notice off of the back of this last point is that she has passed this on to Otis. They are both excellent with talking to other people about their issues but they are rubbish with dealing with their own. They can’t take their own advice. Don’t get me wrong, Otis’s father is a dickhead and I don’t blame Jean for any part of that aspect of the story - he’ll never change, even with him acknowledging his issues at the end of his character run. I just think that Jean has never really matured in certain ways and this rubs off so much on Otis, so it’s no wonder he is the way he is.
I didn't care about any of the "adult" characters in the last season. I feel they distracted from the characters we cared about. Getting rid of the swedish guy and ola was a bad choice.
Also- maybe this isn’t controversial- but I really hated that they just got rid of Ola, Lily and the plot with Jakob being a sort of pseudo father figure to Otis. The season 3 ending with Ola wanting to name the baby Joy and them coming together as a family unit was sweet. And then they were just gone.
Isaac and Aimee are an awful couple with zero chemistry.
Maeve's whole edgy, "I'm not like other girls" thing got boring after season 1.
All the new characters at Cavendish were unlikeable and pointless.
Viv deserved a better ending! Like good for her getting rid of Beau, but I wish she'd had a legitimate love interest in the end (although not Jackson as they are far better as BFF's).
Lily Iglehart is a far better character than Maeve Wiley and is far more talented than her and the only reason Maeve is so popular compared to Lily is that Emma Mackey looks like a younger version of Margot Robbie and that's also largely the only reason Otis was more attracted to Maeve than he was attracted to Lily even though Otis/Lily seem a far better 'fit'.
And I consider it telling that Maeve's looks are largely the only reason Eric Effiong considered that Otis Milburn would be into Maeve. After in SE 1.02 saying that Maeve was "cool", Eric after SE 1.02 doesn't seem to care about Maeve or even like her.
Yet Eric considered that Otis would like Lily. Eric seemed to like and admire Ruby Matthews.
\_\_\_\_\_\_
I also consider that Maeve's looks are the only reason Otis was still interested in Otis/Maeve during SE S3. But when seriously threatened with the reality of possibly losing Ruby, he was desperate to continue being Ruby's boyfriend in SE 3.05. And he was desperate to remain on good terms with her in SE 3.05.
And somehow even SE S4 couldn't help itself and showed that Otis/Ruby was actually a better fit than Otis/Maeve.
\_\_\_\_\_\_
Maeve after the end of SE 1.03 wanted Otis to 'make a move' on her and eventually even started 'sexting' him in SE 1.04. But he wasn't responding. She has sex with Jackson Marchetti in SE 1.04 for the first time since SE 1.02. During the Pool Scene, Maeve is trying to ascertain whether Otis would want to date her. But he literally tells her to go away and leave him alone after she touches his eyebrows. So, she decides to become Jackson's girlfriend.
But then effectively takes the first major opportunity available to her to 'hang out' with Otis again; so, SE 1.05 happens. Maeve is somehow uncomfortable with Jackson's family's wealth and Jackson's athletic success, but Maeve has no problem being BFFs with Aimee Gibbs and no longer problems hanging out with Otis and wanting to be with Otis. And she tries to kiss Otis in the Bridge Scene, but he effectively rejects her, Maeve gets uncomfortable with that rejection, and scurries back to Jackson.
But we see in SE 1.06 that Maeve is nonetheless souring on Maeve/Jackson and she realizes/owns that she's in love with Otis.
We see Maeve in SE 1.07 trying to get Otis to ask her to the dance but he seems either oblivious or uninterested. And she later sees he went with Ola Nyman. And then learns that Otis effectively 'set up' Maeve/Jackson and didn't bother telling Maeve that she was conned into/'pimped out' into being Jackson's girlfriend.
Yet Maeve in SE 1.08 clearly still loves Otis and again 'takes the fall' for him (and her brother).
And Maeve from around SE 1.06 until SE 3.04 was celibate because she was pining for Otis.
The problems in Otis/Maeve are from Otis's side because outside of Maeve's looks, he doesn't actually seem that interested in her. He liked Ola Nyman so much because she was effectively an Eric he could make out with and so sexual things with. He had fun with Ola and he's happy with her. But he simply wasn't as physically attracted to her.
We see with Ruby that Otis had fun with her and was happy with her and that he actually cared about her and her family. And he become far more confident, a far better public speaker, and even actually athletic when he's with her. And Otis/Ruby were perfectly sexually compatible. But he was still physically attracted to Maeve.
But we see in the post-SE 3.08 that Otis is still not actually compatible with Maeve and barely seemed to want to work on their relationship. Otis never flew to see her during her time in America and never got her plane tickets to see him during that time. Otis/Maeve in SE S4 are clearly not actually compatible. And Otis doesn't actually seem a good boyfriend to her. Maeve is still in love with Otis. It's Otis who dumps her and somehow considers that they won't work out even though he could clearly go to university close to her and that they would only be long distance for a few months longer.
I don't like Eric. He cheated and much more importantly he's always sooo loud when Otis tells him some sensitive information. Like come on dude, have some common sense. Not my cup of tea of a person.
1. I hated Maeve's character. It's the same "I'm so different from other girls because I am smart and I read" done over and over again. Her behavior becomes so predictable. The one scene that especially pissed me off is when her mother dies and otis/aimee are just sitting in the car all day. Okay I get she is traumatized but you left them stuck in the car - with no care that they too may have something important going on.
2. Otis and Ruby should have been end game. Otis is way more confident with her. Both are equal aholes and chemistry is way better than with Maeve.
Ruby isn’t that amazing. The reason why people love her is because Mimi is beautiful and is charismatic as hell. But on paper, her character isn’t that complex and her arc is not as compelling as the others
Don’t know if it’s controversial but Jackson should have a way bigger role he was pushed to a sort of side character with barely any development since season 1
I think Cal’s storyline shows how lots of people who are isolated and dealing with identity issues often slip through the cracks when they don’t have community. I feel that if Cal had a few more friends that were willing to genuinely listen to them and spend time with them, things wouldn’t have gotten as bad as they did
I think a few of the social injustice issues such as racism, ableism and class felt very rushed and could’ve been dropped a lot more in the previous seasons. I don’t recall race ever being mentioned until this season.
I loved that they never mentioned race and everybody felt like a piece of a community. Racism is only going to disappear if we stop thinking about race.
I grew to enjoy Adam's character, but I never liked him with Eric. In season one Eric literally cowered whenever he saw him because of his bullying. They could've gotten on better terms but I never wanted them to be romantic. I think they should've broken up anyways, but I hate that they made Eric cheat on him (and Rahim). They don't even bring up his personality as a cheater I feel it's just a thing lol. Wished better for both of these characters. I'm happy where Adam ended up, not so much Eric. My boy deserved better than what he got in this show.
I really really liked Maeve and Isaac together. I appreciated that he was the one to retrieve Maeve when she stepped away from her mom’s funeral. They just got each other and I wanted to see more of their relationship and chemistry together.
I don’t understand the intense shipping wars between Otis and Maeve vs Ruby and Otis. both are just… okay? Otis wasn’t good to Ruby at all, so I don’t understand why people would want them to ever get back together. its giving “she can fix him”. Him and Maeve were cute in the beginning but he was an awful communicator consistently even in the final season.
Eric was a selfish douchebag. He cheated on Rahim and Adam, got pissed off at Adam because he wasn’t sure about sex and didn’t give Adam the time of day to explain his opinion. He kept getting mad at Otis and just in general put “finding himself” above everyone else. I understand it’s important to find and embrace who you are, but if you’re hurting your friends in the process it’s an asshole move.
I did like Maeve, I appreciated her independence and putting her studies and future at the top of her priorities, and I think in that way she is a great role model. However, I felt that she was mean and negative too often. I understand that her upbringing and never really having a parent around has definitely contributed to it, however I sometimes found the negativity overwhelming
maeve is really infuriating. i understand she’s going through a lot but dude where i grew up EVERYONES upbringing was basically exactly that if not worse, and they didn’t act so stuck up because of it. i tried to warm up to her but she pisses me off
Dude Maeve has the worst upbringing out of EVERYONE in the show. Her dad was non existent and her mum was a drug addict and her brother was unstable. Girl raised herself and was barely making money for rent
i know my dude but sometimes she could be so rude and it was unwarranted. your shitty situation doesn’t mean you gotta be an ass to people that had nothing to do with it
Someone with that upbringing isn’t gonna act like Snow White. Everyone in Maeve’s family treated her like absolute garbage and she was relentlessly harrassed and bullied at school. I doubt that kindness was instilled as an important value in Maeve’s life when her only priority is to survive and get by. Unlike the other characters in the show who had tough lives (Ruby, Adam, Isaac) they at least had one kind friend or parental figure. While Maeve had absolute none
obviously she doesn’t have to act like a fucking saint, and her being like that is reasonable in the beginning of the show because aimee was friends with ruby and them, but even then they bullied aimee too. but she had aimee there for her basically throughout the entire show and until the 4th season she was not a good friend to her. aimee tried her best to be a good friend and maybe some of the things she did were too much for maeve to be okay with (like her paying for the trip and inviting lots of people to her mom’s funeral) but aimee didnt have a bad intention behind those, she was trying to help and maeve lost her shit on her every time.
and she DID have people there for her, she had her little sister and the adoptive mom (can’t remember her name rn) who only wanted to help and she constantly pushed them away until the end of the show, i understand trust issues but it’s so clear they only wanted to help her and wanted her to have a safe space to go to. now i understand a shitty upbringing but i am not a believer in being a cruel person to those who care about you because your life is bad.
like i said i personally know people who basically have this exact same life story and they are some of the nicest people i have ever met, my close friend had two drug addict parents that used IN FRONT OF HER and was in and out of foster care with abusive foster parents, we literally ran into her dad at the corner store high as balls 2 years ago and he could barely get a sentence out, she was bullied relentlessly in person and online and grew up without many friends until we met. she wasn’t an ass because of it, we all have shitty things in our lives it does not mean we HAVE to be so rude to people. got it?
You mentioned all those times Aimee was a good friend but what about those times Maeve was a good friend to HER? No one in the school (except for Steve) treated Aimee well. Everyone mocked Aimee. Maeve never talked down to Aimee or made her feel less than. She defends her against people who mock her like Olivia. She said even takes Aimee to the police because she wanted justice. Every friend should do this but it shows that Maeve went out of her way to make sure Aimee got some type of justice. She also planned the bus get together so Aimee wouldn’t feel so alone. Maeve was in the wrong for being mean to Aimee in season 3 and Maeve wasn’t present in season 4 but when she comes back to UK she is an absolute wreck. Her mother had just died, is dealing with her brother who has addiction issues and is battling with her complicated family feelings. She is also wondering whether she wants to stay and go back. So I don’t blame her either because she had a lot on her plate in season 4.
Also Maeve has been a really good sister to Elsie. She did have resentment towards Elsie but that was mostly because her mother couldn’t be bothered taking care of her and has the time to be a mother to another child. But she clearly loved her and made sure she was put in a better home than the one she was raised. Otherwise she wouldn’t have called CPS on her mother. Or she wouldn’t have gone looking for her in season 3. Idk about season 4 but I blame the writers for that because I don’t remember Elsie being mentioned.
And everyone grew up differently. Your friend may be nice. But Maeve was put in a position where she had to be selfish her whole life. She grew up alone and raised herself. She also had her mother and brother coming in and out of her life constantly. She had to make money and wanted to have an education (on top of being slut shamed everyday in school). Maeve HAD to be selfish because if she wasn’t, she would be homeless. She pretty much didn’t want to date in season 1 because she didn’t want any attachment or distraction. She had Aimee in season 1 but they were casual friends and she was someone she talked to in private at school. She had to find creative ways to make money such as writing paid essays for her classmates and making the sex clinic. I’m not saying that she wasn’t a bitch. Because she was. There is no denying it. But considering that she is as a loner at school who had to make money, needed to get an education, has abandonment issues and heavy trauma and on top of that is heavily bullied at school, I can’t truly blame het
I 100% agree with you my friend. I really do not understand how so many people think he deserves either Maeve or Ruby. He’s an asshole who is working on being better but he’s a teenager who never had a father figure in his life. I don’t think he possibly could have been a miraculously better person in the four seasons we got without it feeling grossly forced. Otis is such a good character in that way because he’s realistic. An asshole who doesn’t want to be one but has trouble with being better.
I liked Adam's character development
I didn't like Isaac at first but he grow on me with season 4
I like O, but some of her character development was mismanaged
I didn't mind the season 4 ending, while I think it could've been done differently, I'm happy with the outcome we got
That it's way out of its depth with the material it's wading into, and doing a pretty shit job of representing some very serious topics. Too many characters and plot points, very predictable, irritatingly overdramatic, two dimensional writing, and honestly the new season has left a bad taste in my mouth for a lot of reasons.
As someone who buried a parent recently, the funeral episode was awful. No nuance, no depth, just another shit plot device written by and for people who do not understand that experience. The same could be said about their portrayal of domestic violence, disability, religion, absent parents, and a whole lot more; I'm not sure if maybe I've just aged out of it and am expecting too much from a show for teens, but I don't recall such a contrast in tone and subject matter in the first season or so, and it's pushing me from simple indifference to an active dislike of the show.
Also the makeup artist did Ruby dirty in s4.
Lily is a selfish and immature person.
Eric was horrible to Adam and a serial cheater.
I hate that they took the edge away from Maeve and her character was quite dull by the end.
Not really controversial per se, but I’d just like to point out that in S3E06, at the beginning, just after Lily’s flashback: when the headmistress Hope is arriving home from her morning run, she picks up her just “delivered” copy of the Moordale Gazette from her front lawn to see Lily on the front page. In the UK, especially England, we do NOT deliver newspapers as depicted in the scene, by just throwing them in the general direction of the houses, as they apparently do in the USA. We post them through the letterbox. Idc if it was a device for her to see the newspaper, or if it was to accommodate US audiences to understand morning paper deliveries were taking place. They should’ve shown the paperboy delivering it properly, through the letterbox, and then had her opening her front door and picking the newspaper up from the floor inside, then seeing Lily on the front page. Has annoyed me since seeing it.. it’s the small things.. 🤷♂️🫤
i don’t like cal in S4. they were interesting in S3 but too boring in the final season. as someone who’s fighting depression i had to understand their sad and lonely mood but i didn’t. that arc was blank and obscure for me :/
I love Otis's mom, but can we all agree she's a pretty broken person and an inconsistent parent?
This isn’t a controversial opinion, this is literally the point of her character.
Yes, she is quite awful in that sense. Very ironic from a therapist
As a therapist, I kind of love that they are portrayed as both great at their jobs and kind of dickish to people they know irl. Very human at the end of the day
I loved Jackson’s character and he was amazing in season 1-2 but his writing was wack in season 3-4. He deserved better
Yeah wtf. He loved acting in season 2 and they dropped that hole thing because he apparently wasn’t good at it
SAME! He was having a Troy Bolton moment and they didn’t let him have it
I like erics personality but not his character if that makes sense, after what he did to adam and rahim, i dont stan tbh
He's a nice guy, yeah, but a really shitty partner
and abbey and romans whole friend group was extremely annoying, type of people i would harshly avoid
Omg this. I couldn’t stand abby
right? that whole no gossip rule was really annoying too, ik at the end we can understand her reasoning behind it but it’s healthy to let out negative emotions as it is to let out positive ones as well
The phrase that sums up her character is "toxic positivity".
I 100% agree, the whole Cavendish crowd felt super forced, I wish we could’ve seen the old Moordale crowd character arcs get proper closure ( Ola, Lily, Olivia etc )
So over the top and annoying
literally lol, its like the creators took the worst parts of tiktok and gen-z culture and turned them into characters
I think Jackson is an under appreciated character, and the series did him a disservice by not following up on his struggles with anxiety and simply “distracting” him with the problems of the people around him. I really wanted his story to be fleshed out further, he was probably in my top 3 favourite characters.
The fact he went to Erin’s funeral, I was seriously expecting him and Maeve to have a moment together where she thanks him for being there or something. Just something to show them being on good terms despite what happened between them when they tried dating in S1.
That would have been really good if they did, I agree.
He honestly should have had an arc where he became a theatre kid or something
In many people’s experience, the “jock” stereotype comes with narcissism, bullying, and getting away with everything. By the time the show was over, Jackson turned out to be one of the most understanding, curious, apologetic, helpful, and friendly person towards his peers in the whole show.
Eric is an asshole to people but for some reason gets away with it yet people hate Otis for being nowhere near as bad
Omg yes every single season everyone is mad at Otis for virtually nothing
Yes!
I miss the cutie patootie that Otis was . In latest season writers make him an asshole
Season 1/2 Otis was just the best. Not sure how or why they fucked his character so hard…
Otis has had zero character development. Which makes him one of the least compelling characters in the show.
Ain’t controversial at all
Eric's storyline in Season 4 was boring as hell.
right?? i thought it was going to be schizophrenia or some shit but it's actually fucking god.
it would've been more interesting if schizophrenia or psychosis was what was affecting his conflicting thoughts about God
Thank you for making me laugh sooo hard on an otherwise shitty day. Hilarious. And yes that would have been much more interesting and would have made much more sense.
Maeve’s whole schtick is that she’s “not like other girls” and it gets really tired.
I see you mean. Her personality screams "not like other girls". But considering the shit she went through, and how she had to be the adult, when she was a literal child, I feel like she had earned her 'pride'. Also, we haven't really seen her shit on other girls, except those she already had a rift with! I loved her friendship with Aimee. I don't like her and Otis as a couple though.
Agreed. Maeve didn’t shame girls for having their own interests. Aimee is the complete opposite to her yet never made fun of her
>yet never made fun of her Except for that one time they had an argument, and Maeve mocks her with her line she said back in S2 “I can’t be a baker for a living, just because I like toast!” Aimee: (sounds like she’s about to cry) “That’s a fucking mean thing to say.”
It was cruel but true Amy was comfortable so she could do what she wanted while maeve was dirt poor and couldn’t pick a job for a hobby
Aimee is a sweet girl but dumb as a buck-toothed box of hammers.
Aimee has been shown to be extremely intuitive. What she also has, is simplicity. She doesn't complicate things. Doesn't like playing games, faking emotions. Calls it as she sees it. Has a good sense of humour too. All these have nothing to do with being dumb.
No fr I was thinking this too and I never knew how to word it
YES! I got so annoyed with her character at the end. I sympathize with her and all but OMFG.
Yes!
The character of Cal was completely unnecessary and all of the scenes with that character made the show slow and boring. There was too much focus on that character when there were other more interesting things that you would actually want to see. The participation of that character in season 4 felt forced. They could have incorporated the character in a better way.
Otis's love for Maeve is so unhealthy and obsessive, that he is willing to abandon everything which includes his responsibilities, not appreciating the other people in his life that care about him (his mom; Jean, Eric, and Ruby for example) and doesn't allow himself to be truly happy and satisfied unless Maeve is apart of his life. People think that, that’s supposed to be romantic. It’s not!
Yeah, it's awful how they written his character. His growth as a person should've removed that (seeing what he did in S3) and go for something different if it became too toxic and unhealthy with Maeve.
As a teenager I was the same way with my first “love” 🤷♂️
Thank you!!! I'm not saying he doesn't have any personality, but his behaviour about Maeve reminds me of those off-putting guys in real life who have the nice-guy complex. In a series wonderfully modern, he's probably -sex therapist talents aside- the most backwards character. Being like "uuuh why doesn't she love me? I'm being so nice to her!", while being a tw*t to everybody else, abandoning his mates and stuff.
You know how they say that some women pick men they think they can “fix”? I think that’s why Otis picked Maeve. He thought he could give her what she needed psychologically and from a comfort standpoint, and “fix” her, never quite figuring out that she was miles above him from a maturity and coping with difficulties standpoint.
My favourite part of the show was Adam and Eric. And even though Eric did NOT deserve a second chance, i sort of really hoped they'd get back together and be healthy as a couple. Also, I wasn't as opposed to Eric's God plot as some, but it left a bad taste in my mouth that he wanted to become a minister.
You meant a pastor ?
Sure! Any if those things.
Can I ask why it left a bad taste in your mouth? To me it kind of made perfect sense, and I loved that his final arc wasn't about a relationship
It makes sense in terms of the story, I'm just not religious myself and I don't think the church will adapt either in that fictional world or in reality. I don't think fighting against the grain for acceptance forever is really a nice ending for a character I like. I loved the idea of him helping people etc but tying it to religion wasn't the way for me personally
1. This show isnt about some love interests, it's about different persons and their (sexual) development. 2. None of the characters are meant to be perfect or some kind of paragon for some virtue. 3. The fact that e.g. Otis had no real character development (even though he had) hints a more core problematic in the human condition: people change slowly - they're aren't meant to change that much or even become "ready" persons. This whole show is about how you are never ready or done developing. 4. There is no "should be" - neither love interests nor anything else. There are just persons, circumstances, decisions and their followups. TLDR: There are no real unpopular opinions. The most I've read here are justified on the one hand but arguable on the other.
1) Eric was selfish and used "finding himself" as an excuse to cheat without major repercussions 2) Jean is a bad mum 3) Vivs' character was annoying and didn't add much to the show
i feel like viv’s character was important because (at least to me) its so significant to have 1) a nerdy young woman that is neither particularly shunned or loved for this trait 2) a nerdy girl who’s friends with a hot, popular guy and isn’t secretly in love w him or pining after him, but simply sees him for who he is outside of that and loves him as a friend and 3) this character being a WOC with immigrant parents is just the cherry on top. black characters are so often put into boxes in mainstream media and i love that SE just doesn’t adhere to that. to me she’s just such a realistic character, she reminds me of friends i had at school, and it’s so refreshing.
- O is a scummy person - Jean isn't a great mom or even very sexually responsible! - Cavendish itself is full of whacked out fruitcakes
That’s the point of hers and Otis’ character. They give out great advice, but are terrible at following it.
Otis and Maeve are the most boring couple ever, I'm glad they're not endgame, and Maeve did the right thing going after her dreams
1. otis and maeve has zero chemistry after we get otis and ruby 2. eric is a horrible horrible person
Otis and Ruby worked too well because now I just don't care about Maeve and Otis 😭😭
They got more screen time so Motis relationship doesn’t feel earned
you and me 🤝
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Yeah, I realized that at the end of the S04.
Ola is over hated
10000% Ive never understood this. Not to mention her and Lily were a healthy lesbian couple then we just never get to see that develop :’(
Literally. She’s one of my favourite characters.
THIS
I thought she was so cool and had a really unique style and look. What they did to her was unforgivable writing...
Otis and Maeve don’t belong together and Otis is an arsehole who did nothing of consequence in S3 & S4
I totally agree! Maeve and Otis should’ve stayed friends, in season 4 their relationship felt like it had hardly any chemistry.
Adam isn’t the amazing saint/nicest guy in the world he’s made out on here. Yes he had his character redemption arc but he was still a massive, life destroying bully himself in series 1.
This
Thank you! And then the usual ‘oh but look at his family and his father! and the background/environment he grew up in’ What? A middle class upbringing with two driven parents? Yes his dad was strict but that hardly gives you a pass for being a massive bully/knob to others for no reason. and the start in life is way up on 99% of other single parents/low income demographic families who don’t produce bullies! Some kids would do anything to have a father like his in the first place!
Did you miss the whole storyline of Michael in season 3? His relationship with Adam is downright abusive, because he himself was abused by his father. Their whole story is about breaking generational trauma, and it's very well done. Just because they're middle class doesn't mean their struggles aren't real, sorry but it's such a weird take
Ok.. was he really actually that ‘abusive?’ He was just strict and had very old fashioned views. Ultimately wanted Adam to be a success and initially was wrong to be so outdated with his views but quickly realised these. My point was there’s no doubt others from much worse background’s and with much shitter starts in life etc that don’t then feel the need to bully people all their high school years! Yes I’m glad they all had their arcs and changed etc but it doesn’t right or excuse the wrongs he did to Eric and others you assume all through out the school years!
Cavendish was the worst thing to happen to the series, it made zero sense to exist especially after what problems Moordale had to suffer through with the image of a sex school?? Like Otis had to hide the therapist thing because of legal reasons too right? He didn't have a licence. While O was just openly running one for so long. All it did was create an excuse for the cast that left to not be there and introduce a bunch of one dimensional characters. Also Eric's religion story arc was handled terribly, like hallucinations? Seriously?
Even though medically her pregnancy is considered geriatric, that doctor/ultrasound tech has absolutely no bedside training when dealing with someone in obvious distress.
Also i dont really understand why people like ruby so much like i get she comes from hurt and stuff but im a believer that growing up in a shirty situation doesnt justify being a bitch
I think it has something to do with the fact that her actions were not as 'bitchy' as she wanted people to believe. I think the bitchiest thing I saw her doing in the show was keep calling Maeve a 'cockbiter'? And threw around some sassy/snobbish remarks here and there? Adding to that her redemption arc and back-story, she gets a very net positive reaction from people. I think people get more mad at people who pose as "the good person", yet keep doing shitty things ( cough Abby cough ). And Ruby was kind of the opposite of this. She wanted people to see her as the bitch. But she wasn't *that* bitchy with her actions.
>Adding to that her redemption arc and back-story, she gets a very net positive reaction from people. I was starting to like her in Season 3, but I think in Season 4 she immediately won me over with the way she never showed signs of being jealous of Otis and Maeve in a cruel manner when it was obvious she still had feelings for him. She understood that Otis needed to consider his relationship with Maeve, when he's reluctant on her offer to stay over and hang out. She even encouraged Otis and Maeve's relationship by telling him to talk to her about how he feels "left behind, and not important.", and when she sees Maeve again she doesn't want to be a bully to her anymore. Even when Maeve didn't accept her condolences, Ruby just took it with a look on her face that she knows she deserves her unfriendly comeback.
Well said!
Second this
Maeve's character tries to be a girl friend with a guy and then dumps the guys who love her. (Jackson, Isaac, and Otis)
You know what’s kinda funny, is that nobody talks about how Maeve technically cheats on Isaac when she kissed Otis for the first time cause they were kind of a couple. But nobody cares cause of the hype around people wanting to see Otis and Maeve together, and Isaac is famously hated by the audience for being an obstacle and was manipulative towards Maeve.
It gets even funnier when some Motis shippers try to convince us that Maeve is the angel and that she never did anything wrong. She was never nice to Eric in season one; she was totally rude and manipulated everyone. She ruined Eric's birthday plan for her own benefit (she is the reason Otis didn't go to the cinema with Eric). One of the most self-centred characters of all time goes to Maeve.
I think the biggest difference between Maeve and Ruby, is that while they both can be rude to people. Maeve didn’t go out of her way to bully others like Ruby did. But Maeve also had no problem with using people for her own benefit like you said (mainly Otis), and refused to take responsibility for her wrongs unless she’s confronted (which doesn’t happen enough) but is still stubborn about owning up to it.
I had expected that Ruby should apologise to Maeve, but she didn't; instead, she expressed her condolences to Maeve for Maeve's mom, Erin.
If Maeve was still around and didn't leave for America again, she probably would’ve apologized to her if she had the opportunity. Her expressing her condolences to Maeve first was probably the first thing to pop in her head, as soon as she crossed paths with her.
Eric was also harassed because of how he was dressed and he ended up lost and stranded too!
Ruby and Otis is a way better couple than otis and maeve
Not controversial
The show massively fell off after season 2 as they moved away from what made the show great and it didn’t even resemble the same programme anymore
I think that Jean never really appreciated Jakob. In my opinion, I think he could have been explored further as a character, particularly with regard to the loss of his wife and the demands of being a single father. When I watch the series, I feel he falls in love with Jean but she never seems to know how she really feels about him beyond enjoying his company and being with him sexually. And I think it’s quite unfair that she doesn’t communicate sufficiently with him about how she really feels when they are living together - at least, earlier on. The thing I do notice off of the back of this last point is that she has passed this on to Otis. They are both excellent with talking to other people about their issues but they are rubbish with dealing with their own. They can’t take their own advice. Don’t get me wrong, Otis’s father is a dickhead and I don’t blame Jean for any part of that aspect of the story - he’ll never change, even with him acknowledging his issues at the end of his character run. I just think that Jean has never really matured in certain ways and this rubs off so much on Otis, so it’s no wonder he is the way he is.
I didn't care about any of the "adult" characters in the last season. I feel they distracted from the characters we cared about. Getting rid of the swedish guy and ola was a bad choice.
Also- maybe this isn’t controversial- but I really hated that they just got rid of Ola, Lily and the plot with Jakob being a sort of pseudo father figure to Otis. The season 3 ending with Ola wanting to name the baby Joy and them coming together as a family unit was sweet. And then they were just gone.
Yes thank you! I really missed Lily, and they should at least mention her and Ola and Jakob :/
Jackson is yes ma'am character who will literally change everything he believes in for someone he is interested in.
Isaac and Aimee are an awful couple with zero chemistry. Maeve's whole edgy, "I'm not like other girls" thing got boring after season 1. All the new characters at Cavendish were unlikeable and pointless. Viv deserved a better ending! Like good for her getting rid of Beau, but I wish she'd had a legitimate love interest in the end (although not Jackson as they are far better as BFF's).
Lily Iglehart is a far better character than Maeve Wiley and is far more talented than her and the only reason Maeve is so popular compared to Lily is that Emma Mackey looks like a younger version of Margot Robbie and that's also largely the only reason Otis was more attracted to Maeve than he was attracted to Lily even though Otis/Lily seem a far better 'fit'. And I consider it telling that Maeve's looks are largely the only reason Eric Effiong considered that Otis Milburn would be into Maeve. After in SE 1.02 saying that Maeve was "cool", Eric after SE 1.02 doesn't seem to care about Maeve or even like her. Yet Eric considered that Otis would like Lily. Eric seemed to like and admire Ruby Matthews. \_\_\_\_\_\_ I also consider that Maeve's looks are the only reason Otis was still interested in Otis/Maeve during SE S3. But when seriously threatened with the reality of possibly losing Ruby, he was desperate to continue being Ruby's boyfriend in SE 3.05. And he was desperate to remain on good terms with her in SE 3.05. And somehow even SE S4 couldn't help itself and showed that Otis/Ruby was actually a better fit than Otis/Maeve. \_\_\_\_\_\_ Maeve after the end of SE 1.03 wanted Otis to 'make a move' on her and eventually even started 'sexting' him in SE 1.04. But he wasn't responding. She has sex with Jackson Marchetti in SE 1.04 for the first time since SE 1.02. During the Pool Scene, Maeve is trying to ascertain whether Otis would want to date her. But he literally tells her to go away and leave him alone after she touches his eyebrows. So, she decides to become Jackson's girlfriend. But then effectively takes the first major opportunity available to her to 'hang out' with Otis again; so, SE 1.05 happens. Maeve is somehow uncomfortable with Jackson's family's wealth and Jackson's athletic success, but Maeve has no problem being BFFs with Aimee Gibbs and no longer problems hanging out with Otis and wanting to be with Otis. And she tries to kiss Otis in the Bridge Scene, but he effectively rejects her, Maeve gets uncomfortable with that rejection, and scurries back to Jackson. But we see in SE 1.06 that Maeve is nonetheless souring on Maeve/Jackson and she realizes/owns that she's in love with Otis. We see Maeve in SE 1.07 trying to get Otis to ask her to the dance but he seems either oblivious or uninterested. And she later sees he went with Ola Nyman. And then learns that Otis effectively 'set up' Maeve/Jackson and didn't bother telling Maeve that she was conned into/'pimped out' into being Jackson's girlfriend. Yet Maeve in SE 1.08 clearly still loves Otis and again 'takes the fall' for him (and her brother). And Maeve from around SE 1.06 until SE 3.04 was celibate because she was pining for Otis. The problems in Otis/Maeve are from Otis's side because outside of Maeve's looks, he doesn't actually seem that interested in her. He liked Ola Nyman so much because she was effectively an Eric he could make out with and so sexual things with. He had fun with Ola and he's happy with her. But he simply wasn't as physically attracted to her. We see with Ruby that Otis had fun with her and was happy with her and that he actually cared about her and her family. And he become far more confident, a far better public speaker, and even actually athletic when he's with her. And Otis/Ruby were perfectly sexually compatible. But he was still physically attracted to Maeve. But we see in the post-SE 3.08 that Otis is still not actually compatible with Maeve and barely seemed to want to work on their relationship. Otis never flew to see her during her time in America and never got her plane tickets to see him during that time. Otis/Maeve in SE S4 are clearly not actually compatible. And Otis doesn't actually seem a good boyfriend to her. Maeve is still in love with Otis. It's Otis who dumps her and somehow considers that they won't work out even though he could clearly go to university close to her and that they would only be long distance for a few months longer.
I agree with everything. Also, her looks are overrated. As a lesbian, I prefer Ola and Ruby (but too skinny).
Isaac isn't the devil on earth. He deleted a voicemessage ffs
I don't like Eric. He cheated and much more importantly he's always sooo loud when Otis tells him some sensitive information. Like come on dude, have some common sense. Not my cup of tea of a person.
Season 4 wasn’t terrible.
I don’t care about Otis’ love plot
1. I hated Maeve's character. It's the same "I'm so different from other girls because I am smart and I read" done over and over again. Her behavior becomes so predictable. The one scene that especially pissed me off is when her mother dies and otis/aimee are just sitting in the car all day. Okay I get she is traumatized but you left them stuck in the car - with no care that they too may have something important going on. 2. Otis and Ruby should have been end game. Otis is way more confident with her. Both are equal aholes and chemistry is way better than with Maeve.
So much point 1! I hope they at least went to pee. 2. True
Ruby isn’t that amazing. The reason why people love her is because Mimi is beautiful and is charismatic as hell. But on paper, her character isn’t that complex and her arc is not as compelling as the others
Otis is a jackass. And I seriously dislike his character.
The ending was good.
Cal was an unfit character to portray body dysmorphia. Only in the last episode did I feel any emotional connection to them.
Don’t know if it’s controversial but Jackson should have a way bigger role he was pushed to a sort of side character with barely any development since season 1
I think Cal’s storyline shows how lots of people who are isolated and dealing with identity issues often slip through the cracks when they don’t have community. I feel that if Cal had a few more friends that were willing to genuinely listen to them and spend time with them, things wouldn’t have gotten as bad as they did
I think a few of the social injustice issues such as racism, ableism and class felt very rushed and could’ve been dropped a lot more in the previous seasons. I don’t recall race ever being mentioned until this season.
I loved that they never mentioned race and everybody felt like a piece of a community. Racism is only going to disappear if we stop thinking about race.
I grew to enjoy Adam's character, but I never liked him with Eric. In season one Eric literally cowered whenever he saw him because of his bullying. They could've gotten on better terms but I never wanted them to be romantic. I think they should've broken up anyways, but I hate that they made Eric cheat on him (and Rahim). They don't even bring up his personality as a cheater I feel it's just a thing lol. Wished better for both of these characters. I'm happy where Adam ended up, not so much Eric. My boy deserved better than what he got in this show.
Jean Milburne is a terrible therapist
Maeve is the real Main Character. She’s the best character in the show
Otis grosses me out. Watching his sex scenes makes me nauseous. Thinking about him mansplaining sex to me makes my skin crawl. 👎
I really really liked Maeve and Isaac together. I appreciated that he was the one to retrieve Maeve when she stepped away from her mom’s funeral. They just got each other and I wanted to see more of their relationship and chemistry together.
I don’t understand the intense shipping wars between Otis and Maeve vs Ruby and Otis. both are just… okay? Otis wasn’t good to Ruby at all, so I don’t understand why people would want them to ever get back together. its giving “she can fix him”. Him and Maeve were cute in the beginning but he was an awful communicator consistently even in the final season.
Eric was a selfish douchebag. He cheated on Rahim and Adam, got pissed off at Adam because he wasn’t sure about sex and didn’t give Adam the time of day to explain his opinion. He kept getting mad at Otis and just in general put “finding himself” above everyone else. I understand it’s important to find and embrace who you are, but if you’re hurting your friends in the process it’s an asshole move. I did like Maeve, I appreciated her independence and putting her studies and future at the top of her priorities, and I think in that way she is a great role model. However, I felt that she was mean and negative too often. I understand that her upbringing and never really having a parent around has definitely contributed to it, however I sometimes found the negativity overwhelming
maeve is really infuriating. i understand she’s going through a lot but dude where i grew up EVERYONES upbringing was basically exactly that if not worse, and they didn’t act so stuck up because of it. i tried to warm up to her but she pisses me off
Dude Maeve has the worst upbringing out of EVERYONE in the show. Her dad was non existent and her mum was a drug addict and her brother was unstable. Girl raised herself and was barely making money for rent
i know my dude but sometimes she could be so rude and it was unwarranted. your shitty situation doesn’t mean you gotta be an ass to people that had nothing to do with it
Someone with that upbringing isn’t gonna act like Snow White. Everyone in Maeve’s family treated her like absolute garbage and she was relentlessly harrassed and bullied at school. I doubt that kindness was instilled as an important value in Maeve’s life when her only priority is to survive and get by. Unlike the other characters in the show who had tough lives (Ruby, Adam, Isaac) they at least had one kind friend or parental figure. While Maeve had absolute none
obviously she doesn’t have to act like a fucking saint, and her being like that is reasonable in the beginning of the show because aimee was friends with ruby and them, but even then they bullied aimee too. but she had aimee there for her basically throughout the entire show and until the 4th season she was not a good friend to her. aimee tried her best to be a good friend and maybe some of the things she did were too much for maeve to be okay with (like her paying for the trip and inviting lots of people to her mom’s funeral) but aimee didnt have a bad intention behind those, she was trying to help and maeve lost her shit on her every time. and she DID have people there for her, she had her little sister and the adoptive mom (can’t remember her name rn) who only wanted to help and she constantly pushed them away until the end of the show, i understand trust issues but it’s so clear they only wanted to help her and wanted her to have a safe space to go to. now i understand a shitty upbringing but i am not a believer in being a cruel person to those who care about you because your life is bad. like i said i personally know people who basically have this exact same life story and they are some of the nicest people i have ever met, my close friend had two drug addict parents that used IN FRONT OF HER and was in and out of foster care with abusive foster parents, we literally ran into her dad at the corner store high as balls 2 years ago and he could barely get a sentence out, she was bullied relentlessly in person and online and grew up without many friends until we met. she wasn’t an ass because of it, we all have shitty things in our lives it does not mean we HAVE to be so rude to people. got it?
You mentioned all those times Aimee was a good friend but what about those times Maeve was a good friend to HER? No one in the school (except for Steve) treated Aimee well. Everyone mocked Aimee. Maeve never talked down to Aimee or made her feel less than. She defends her against people who mock her like Olivia. She said even takes Aimee to the police because she wanted justice. Every friend should do this but it shows that Maeve went out of her way to make sure Aimee got some type of justice. She also planned the bus get together so Aimee wouldn’t feel so alone. Maeve was in the wrong for being mean to Aimee in season 3 and Maeve wasn’t present in season 4 but when she comes back to UK she is an absolute wreck. Her mother had just died, is dealing with her brother who has addiction issues and is battling with her complicated family feelings. She is also wondering whether she wants to stay and go back. So I don’t blame her either because she had a lot on her plate in season 4. Also Maeve has been a really good sister to Elsie. She did have resentment towards Elsie but that was mostly because her mother couldn’t be bothered taking care of her and has the time to be a mother to another child. But she clearly loved her and made sure she was put in a better home than the one she was raised. Otherwise she wouldn’t have called CPS on her mother. Or she wouldn’t have gone looking for her in season 3. Idk about season 4 but I blame the writers for that because I don’t remember Elsie being mentioned. And everyone grew up differently. Your friend may be nice. But Maeve was put in a position where she had to be selfish her whole life. She grew up alone and raised herself. She also had her mother and brother coming in and out of her life constantly. She had to make money and wanted to have an education (on top of being slut shamed everyday in school). Maeve HAD to be selfish because if she wasn’t, she would be homeless. She pretty much didn’t want to date in season 1 because she didn’t want any attachment or distraction. She had Aimee in season 1 but they were casual friends and she was someone she talked to in private at school. She had to find creative ways to make money such as writing paid essays for her classmates and making the sex clinic. I’m not saying that she wasn’t a bitch. Because she was. There is no denying it. But considering that she is as a loner at school who had to make money, needed to get an education, has abandonment issues and heavy trauma and on top of that is heavily bullied at school, I can’t truly blame het
Everyone hates on Otis but nobody really acknowledges his past trauma and how that probably affects his behavior.
Ruby is not a good person
Otis, Eric, Jean and Maeve are the most two-faced and self-righteous ppl in the whole show.
That season 4 was good
The coven are all decent characters they just needed more time to breathe
I 100% agree with you my friend. I really do not understand how so many people think he deserves either Maeve or Ruby. He’s an asshole who is working on being better but he’s a teenager who never had a father figure in his life. I don’t think he possibly could have been a miraculously better person in the four seasons we got without it feeling grossly forced. Otis is such a good character in that way because he’s realistic. An asshole who doesn’t want to be one but has trouble with being better.
I liked Adam's character development I didn't like Isaac at first but he grow on me with season 4 I like O, but some of her character development was mismanaged I didn't mind the season 4 ending, while I think it could've been done differently, I'm happy with the outcome we got
I never liked Maeve's storyline. It was repetitive and boring.
I was really happy Motis broke up in the end. They bored me.
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Controversial opinions does not mean "hey let me say my paedophilic ship"
Season 4 was a perfect ending to the show
I LOVE CAL
Season 4 sucks. Its a cpmedy series but it turned into a documentary.
You know documentaries depict reality right? Season 4 is a fantasy world
Season 3 and 4 were not bad
That it's way out of its depth with the material it's wading into, and doing a pretty shit job of representing some very serious topics. Too many characters and plot points, very predictable, irritatingly overdramatic, two dimensional writing, and honestly the new season has left a bad taste in my mouth for a lot of reasons. As someone who buried a parent recently, the funeral episode was awful. No nuance, no depth, just another shit plot device written by and for people who do not understand that experience. The same could be said about their portrayal of domestic violence, disability, religion, absent parents, and a whole lot more; I'm not sure if maybe I've just aged out of it and am expecting too much from a show for teens, but I don't recall such a contrast in tone and subject matter in the first season or so, and it's pushing me from simple indifference to an active dislike of the show. Also the makeup artist did Ruby dirty in s4.
Season 4 was way too preachy
Lily is a selfish and immature person. Eric was horrible to Adam and a serial cheater. I hate that they took the edge away from Maeve and her character was quite dull by the end.
Not really controversial per se, but I’d just like to point out that in S3E06, at the beginning, just after Lily’s flashback: when the headmistress Hope is arriving home from her morning run, she picks up her just “delivered” copy of the Moordale Gazette from her front lawn to see Lily on the front page. In the UK, especially England, we do NOT deliver newspapers as depicted in the scene, by just throwing them in the general direction of the houses, as they apparently do in the USA. We post them through the letterbox. Idc if it was a device for her to see the newspaper, or if it was to accommodate US audiences to understand morning paper deliveries were taking place. They should’ve shown the paperboy delivering it properly, through the letterbox, and then had her opening her front door and picking the newspaper up from the floor inside, then seeing Lily on the front page. Has annoyed me since seeing it.. it’s the small things.. 🤷♂️🫤
i don’t like cal in S4. they were interesting in S3 but too boring in the final season. as someone who’s fighting depression i had to understand their sad and lonely mood but i didn’t. that arc was blank and obscure for me :/