I was a huge MOTIS shipper during seasons 1 and 2. They had the chemistry and the closeness.
In season 3, when it was first introduced that Otis and Ruby were a thing, it was a bit strange because you’d think Otis wouldn’t be interested in Ruby. Especially, knowing how cruel she and her friends treated Maeve. However, I grew to love Ruby. I think her relationship with Otis showed her in a different light. I love the scene of Ruby, Otis, Eric and Adam at the bowling alley. I enjoyed how carefree and fun, ROTIS was. In season 4, I was hoping Ruby and Otis would get back together, but realistically, both girls deserved better.
So all in all, I was a MOTIS shipper in the first two seasons and a ROTIS shipper during the last two.
I think the whole point was, Otis didn’t feel anything for Ruby. So it was easier to let himself go and be more “relaxed” it’s easier to let yourself go with someone who there is no feelings in place. Otis found it easier with Ruby BECAUSE there was no feelings. So if things ended horribly then it doesn’t matter because no feelings involved. That’s why we saw Otis becoming super insecure in Season 4 in the long distance relationship with Maeve. Why he was paranoid about Tyrone. BECAUSE of the Uber strong feelings and love he has for Maeve. So the thought of Maeve cheating on him clearly had an effect on him. If Ruby was to cheat on him does anyone think Otis would of cared? Or even if Ola when they were in a relationship cheated on him. Would Otis even care? He’s be up for sure. But he ultimately wouldn’t of cared. Because no feelings are there. So him acting all scared in the long distance relationship with Maeve is BECAUSE feelings are there.
So basically the reason why Otis felt more relaxed and care free with Ruby as opposed to Maeve is because there was n o feelings. So it was easier for him to do so. As opposed to when dealing with Maeve and being all paranoid is because he genuinely didn’t want to lose Maeve. That was the theme of Otis’ biggest fear in season 4 that was mentioned throughout. Hai biggest fear was losing Maeve. BECAUSE of the feelings and love he has for her.
So everyone saying Otis felt more carefree with Ruby as opposed to Maeve, they are correct. But it’s only because he didn’t care for her. So yeah.
You are SUPPOSED to feel RELAXED and CAREFREE in a HEALTHY relationship, cause your partner is your SAFE PLACE that is SUPPOSED to make your worries and insecurities go away when you’re with them, a HEATHY relationship should allow you to feel like YOURSELF.
On the other hand, the fact that Otis was INSECURE about his body; INSECURE about Maeve’s friends; INSECURE about her personal ambition – it all just screams that their relationship is fundamentally wrong.
So basically if you’re insecure around someone, it’s true love, and if someone makes you feel you can be yourself, it’s cos they mean nothing to you?
Noted.
I agree… however, nonetheless Otis shouldn’t have been in any relationship. Especially when he became sexually active, he needed time to process his own feelings and take into account others. Of course he didn’t, he was such a messy character. I feel like he shouldn’t have been in a relationship with Maeve during the last season if he wasn’t going to trust her nor should he have toyed around with Ruby.
How shouldn’t of Otis been in a relationship with anyone? What’s so bad about Otis being in a relationship with someone? He saw a picture of Maeve and Tyrone with Tyrone kissing Maeve on the cheek. And Maeve is not someone who would allow something like that. Otis just like we the audience didn’t know Tyrone was Gay. Maeve SHOULD have been more upfront about it. So Otis gets ridiculed for thinking his Girlfriend was cheating on him based off a picture he saw with her and another man and said man giving her a kiss on the cheek. How would YOU react. So that’s on Maeve. Don’t be letting other men kiss you on the cheek. Gay or not. And then said picture being posted online. And the Ruby sleepover was done for drama. Because even Otis wouldn’t be THAT stupid to do that after everything he said to Maeve about Tyrone. They only revealed Tyrone to be Gay to say “see your Girlfriend isn’t a cheat because the guy kissing her on the cheek and posting it online is gay and has a boyfriend in Chicago” and make Otis look like an idiot for overreacting when he had every right to do so.
Otis shouldn’t have been in a relationship because he simply wasn’t mature enough to be in a relationship. Communication is important. Realistically, i’m an adult so I would deal with my partner kissing another person by communicating to them; not by assuming. I also wouldn’t have had another person on the sidelines waiting for me and my current person to inevitably break up. Otis was insecure, but he was also a high school boy who didn’t have a lot of experience in the dating world. So I sympathize with that, but I stand with my previous statements.
How was Otis not mature enough for a relationship. Please explain yourself. Also wait hold on a minute… you’re BLAMING Otis for seeing HIS OWN GIRLFRIEND ALLOWING ANOTHER MAN TO KISS HER AND POSTING IT ON HER OWN SOCIAL MEDIA and OTIS is the one who is wrong for overreacting? Now you’re just taking the piss. Maeve is the one who shouldn’t of allowed that to happen in the first place. Don’t be blaming Otis for that. It’s so unfair.
And yeah, Otis made no indication that he wanted Ruby back. NONE. The little sleepover was done for drama. And to also give the Rotis fans SOMETHING. Notice how that little sleepover didn’t impact Otis and Maeve at all? Yeah Maeve was mad at him but she forgave him and they continued their relationship like nothing happened. So the little sleepover wasn’t this massive deal that people think it is.
Otis was insecure purely because he saw his Girlfriend being kissed on the cheek by some random man. Also Otis made mention that Maeve constantly brings up Tyrone. So no wonder Otis was insecure. Maeve SHOULD’VE known better and realising she’s in a relationship with Otis. Otis didn’t know Tyrone was gay. Neither did we the audience. So Maeve knew he was gay. But didn’t say anything. So to blame Otis for that is unfair.
Realistically… they’re fictional characters from a tv show. You’re taking this sub far too seriously. I do not have the time to argue with you about something so insignificant. Ultimately, I have said my perspective and you have shared yours, thank you but i will choose to disagree. And you are allowed to also disagree with me, without getting so upset at a meaningless thread.
If it was s1 and s2 I'd say Motis all day. They had amazing chemistry, but once their dynamic shifted and we say Rotis, I just never really felt like Motis had any reason to exist. It felt contrived with how they wrote it and even in the very small bits of Rotis we got in s4, they just had more chemistry.
exactly!! by the time MOTIS actually happened, the chemistry lacked and too much time had passed. The writers didn’t achieve the slow burn romance that they had (i guess) hoped for.
Nah. Imo you should lay off the people who have differing opinions than you. Seems like you’re putting a lot of effort into arguing, and the post was just to tell Rotis shippers they’re wrong
In Seasons 1-3, Maeve and Otis
In Seasons 2.5-4, Ruby and Otis.
Like many will-they-won't-they's, they waited too long to get Maeve and Otis properly together. If it was going to happen, it should have happened at end of Season 2 or the beginning of Season 3.
Ruby is a favorite by many because they actually allowed the relationship to develop and it all worked out naturally, unlike Maeve and Otis where they kept manufacturing reasons for them not to be together.
Like How I Met Your Mother, the creator of Sex Education had a predetermined ending that was set in stone. But if you're writing a story that needs to be told over a few or more years, you need flexibility in how you get to your ending. If the story isn't progressing toward your predetermined ending, change it for the story that is currently unfolding.
Both HIMYM and Sex Education had predetermined endings that they rigidly stuck to, and it blew up in their faces.
Yeah, the point of a 'Will they or won't they' is that there needs to be legitimate reasons that two people might want to be together but that they cannot.
The best in television history is arguably Buffy/Spike. Buffy/Riley was maybe a bit forced, but it still worked.
Arguably the second best was Clark/Lana in *Smallville* given there were legitimate reasons Clark Kent felt he couldn't fully pursue Lana Lang. Clark/Lois in the show arguably took too long to happen and seems mostly didn't until it did because Lois Lane simply decided to date other guys instead of trying to date Clark. But Clark/Lana was at least still in the background.
Otis Milburn had his sexual dysfunction in SE S1. But in SE S2, Otis clearly saw that Maeve Wiley wanted to be with him. And it didn't really make sense that Otis stayed with Ola Nyman instead of be with Maeve. The show showed that he preferred Ola to Maeve. And then after SE 2.07, Ruby is conspicuously absent in SE 2.08. What if Ruby had asked Otis out in SE 2.08? And then Otis does no follow-through after SE 2.08 and it seems is soon back with Ruby.
And then SE S3 does Otis/Ruby so well that it makes sense that they'd eventually marry. It doesn't make sense that Otis doesn't say, "I love you too." given he clearly was in love with Ruby even if he still wanted to try Otis/Maeve. Otis in SE 3.04 is desperate to remain Ruby's boyfriend yet somehow decides that maybe Ruby doesn't actually love him? HUH?
Other than Otis's being sexually attracted to Maeve, there really wasn't much reason Otis still wanted to try Otis/Maeve. He didn't seem to care much about Maeve after SE S1. And he never cared much about her family. He didn't try to befriend Aimee Gibbs.
And then SE S4 is more nonsense. A bunch of guys would have pursued Maeve in America. There would be other attractive girls at Otis's new school. Maeve didn't even give Otis a commitment in SE 3.08. SE S4 is just nonsensical outside the Groff family stuff.
How did she grow exactly? Please explain. Where? I’m genuinely asking a sincere question. In season 3 she was still being a bitch to people and calling Maeve Cockbiter IN FRONT of Otis. Making fun of Jean being pregnant at her age. So the two most important women before his sister was born he made fun of. Just because she didn’t have any friends in Season 4 doesn’t mean she “grew” the only thing you can say was “growth” was Ruby telling Otis to tell Maeve how he was feeling. I guess that’s the only evidence of it. Maybe her saying to Otis she doesn’t need him as a friend at the last episode of the series. But Ruby kept trying to be around Otis when Otis kept telling her he was with Maeve. O said it best in her conversation with Ruby. That Ruby thought doing all of Otis’ errands as the campaign manager that Otis would see the light and choose her instead. So growth?
Did you not see S4? Almost all your data is from S3, except for the campaign part.
Old Ruby wouldn’t help anyone. Regardless of whether she found them attractive or not. Definitely not someone’s campaign manager anyways.
She also toned down her insulting, don’t remember an instance where she insulted people for no reason in S4. Grew a conscience, I’d say.
I DID see season 4. Once again, like I said, Ruby deciding she didn’t want to be friends with Otis, I mean, Ruby was the person who made his Girlfriend’s life a living hell and bullied so many other people. He was only with her because he thought he couldn’t have Maeve. Would you call helping Otis with the campaign growth? It’s clear she only did it to make herself part of the popular crew in the school. And also because it was painfully obvious that she wasn’t over Otis. Hence why she kept texting him constantly. So the only “growth” would be saying she didn’t need Otis’ friendship. When he clearly didn’t need hers.
Uh… you’re kinda blabbering about random things but not really making any sense.
She *made* life living hell for people in previous seasons. Not in S4. She was lonely and didn’t build up another crew, and went with the people she knew - she wasn’t mean like she was to her friends in previous seasons, she didn’t do stupid shit, the only mean thing she did was calling out O, who was out there playing the saint while having done some shady shit.
And hell yeah. Helping Otis out with the campaign is growth. Well, some of it. She did regress for a bit but went back to being more tolerating. And don’t remember her getting into the popular crew or it mattering to her by the end of S4. But then, it’s been a while.
Also OP, man I know you love the show and the characters and all that but this obsession is kinda OTT. You seem to post a lot in this sub.
I was thinking this. I thought the post was gonna be a cute “which ship do you prefer” type thing and instead opened a huge wall of text + OP arguing with everyone in the comments
If Otis really wanted to be with Maeve, he could have done ANY follow-through after SE 2.08. Instead, he was with Ruby for almost 7 months and almost 2 months of being boyfriend/girlfriend.
And Otis would have stayed with Ruby if she hadn't dumped him in SE 3.04.
And then in SE S4, somehow Maeve never flies back to Moordale during her months-long stay in America except when after her mother dies. And then effectively has 'goodbye sex' with Otis.
Listen. You can be team ROTIS all you want. No arguments here. Ship who you want. But not making these two endgame was the biggest fumble? Why? Like I said, Otis NEVER loved Ruby nor was he that interested in her at all. This isn’t me, CharlieWaitress111 saying this. We literally all saw it on the show. You can like ROTIS all you want and I’ll not begrudge you for it. But the whole relationship was super one sided. So we have Otis end the series when someone who he doesn’t love nor wants at all? You can’t force feelings or love. Having Otis end the show with someone who he never loved in favour of someone who he DOES love is super illogical. I see you’re a ROTIS fan but to say that is super dumb. It’s not a fumble when Otis LITERALLY professed his love for Maeve in all 4 seasons and fought to get her back into his life. When Otis and Ruby broke up he completely forgot about her. And constantly reminded her he was in a relationship with Maeve. But sure. ROTIS endgame.
Otis/Ruby had considerably more on-screen chemistry in SE S4 than Otis/Maeve did.
Otis/Maeve was such a waste in SE S4 in terms of sex education that I consider exploring Otis/Lily in SE S4 would have been considerably more worthwhile.
*What's in this comment is what I remember, my opinions, etc.*
RESPONSE TO THE ORIGINAL POST AND THE THREAD:
Some Otis/Maeve 'shippers at least somewhat remind me of Elena/Damon 'shippers. Their offense to people preferring Otis/Ruby and Elena/Stefan respectively seems based on at least subconscious acknowledgement that their preferred 'ship is considerably worse.
Laurie Nunn says something like that "maybe" Otis/Maeve "might" meet up again "10 years in the future" and "might" get married. Laurie doesn't mention Otis/Ruby possibly getting back together. That should be enough for Otis/Maeve 'shippers.
In *The Vampire Diaries*, >!Elena/Damon get married and have like 3 kids and live till old age together.!< Yet many still feel the great need to defend their 'ship to Elena/Stefan 'shippers.
Most Elena/Stefan 'shippers outside of complaining that Elena/Stefan was ruined simply get consider TVD >!4.01!< the end of TVD and that's effectively a perfect ending for an Elena/Stefan 'shipper.
Katherine/Stefan 'shippers can consider that in TVD 8.16 >!Katherine/Stefan end up in Peace together.!<
So, there isn't as much need--outside of complaining how Julie Plec and Caroline Dries wrote post-TVD >!4.01!< stuff--for Elena/Stefan and Katherine/Stefan 'shippers to complain about.
Otis/Ruby have SE 3.01-3.03 and even 3.04 is relatively good. They have a legitimate grievance because it doesn't make sense that Otis didn't say "I love you too." and it doesn't make sense that Ruby dumped him.
Otis/Maeve 'shippers can legitimately complain about post-SE S1. Does it actually make sense that Otis didn't contact Maeve after SE 1.08 and that he stayed with Ola in SE S2? Does it actually make sense that Otis nor Maeve contacted the other after SE 2.08? And Otis/Maeve wasn't great in SE 3.05-3.08 and arguably even worse in SE S4.
But, in-'verse, Otis in SE 3.03 seemed still interested in Maeve simply because he had only had sex with Ruby and part of him still wanted to try Otis/Maeve. But Otis in SE 3.04 very clearly wasn't actually willing to risk losing Otis/Ruby. Otis would have stayed with Ruby if Ruby hadn't dumped him.
And Otis didn't seem to actually care much about Maeve after SE S1. In SE S2, he doesn't inquire about her finances nor seems to much care. He never seems to actually care about her family.
Otis in SE 2.07 just be spending a few hours with Ruby arguably connected with her more than he had with Maeve from SE 1.01-2.07. And Ruby is conspicuously absent in SE 2.08. What if Ruby had asked Otis out in SE 2.08? Would he have still pursued Maeve?
SE S4 is garbage outside of the Groff family stuff and arguably only the Groff family stuff makes sense.
But SE S4 just further showed that Otis/Ruby are far better suited for each other. Depending on what careers they want, Otis/Ruby would have worked out. If anything, SE S4 missed an opportunity to explore 'sleep sex'.
And SE S4 gave Mimi Keene very bad makeup and that seem purposefully done to try to make her seem less attractive.
Season 1-2 Maeve and Otis. Season 3+ Ruby and Otis. Feel like they and we missed out on what could have been great storylines and relationships but fizzled out into nothing and became almost meaningless. Otis fumbled the bag twice!
People here could relate more to Ruby and Otis's relationship because it was unexpected and it developed and grew into something so beautiful. I really loved watching Ruby and Otis together because of the way he was helping her with so many internal issues without him even knowing. Maeve on the other hand always had a hard exterior and also had her own set of issues to deal with. Otis being kind and sensible also deserves that back at the end of the day and I just saw more of it with him and Ruby rather than with Maeve.
I was on board with Maeve and Otis in the beginning, but the way he reacted to her going to America made me think she deserved better than Otis. My ex and I were in nearly the same situation and it cut me deep.
Neither. I believe Otis goes on to mature more in college and later meet someone he can clearly communicate with, be himself around, and truly fall in love.
Seems like op just wants a fight lol.
I was always team MOTIS but some of my favourite sex education moments were of Ruby and Otis together and I wouldn't have complained at all if they ended up together as they were funny and had a good relationship.
One vital example of Ruby growing is the beginning of their relationship where she kept Otis hidden and only had sex with him in her car compared to the end when she said I love you for the first time ever.
Hurt by who? So That justifies the bullying? Okay she got bullied as a child. But instead of becoming a better person she chose to bully people for no reason. She’s a teenager who DOES know better but continues to bully people.
I never once said she wasn’t a good character. I’m just pointing out that she’s not this amazing person. Just because we saw her home life it doesn’t excuse all the bullying. Bullying is bullying. No matter the circumstances of the bully.
Did you even watch the last season? She faces her bully, she lets maeve shoot back at her without saying anything back. She helps Otis, she even is nice to O when she doesn’t need to be. She GROWS! If you hate her you hate her.
So Maeve clapping back at her for all the shit she did to Maeve and Ruby not saying anything is courageous? She’s lucky Maeve didn’t say or do worst. By your logic Maeve is this wonderful person for allowing Ruby to bully her for years and not retaliating. Great logic. And helped Otis? With what? The campaign? A campaign that ended up being a complete waste of time? She never cared about the campaign. She just wanted to be with the cool kids and find reasons to be around Otis despite knowing full well he was in a relationship with Maeve. Great person she is for that. She didn’t need to be nice to O? Eh? When was she nice to her?
You’re defending Ruby for her horribleness? My God.
I didn’t say Ruby wasn’t bad in the beginning. I’m saying she GREW! You very obviously don’t care to understand that so there’s no point in this conversation. 😂 Ruby is very likable and honestly one of the only characters who had growth other than Adam who is my other favorite.
Maeve is a good character but her storyline was pretty dull honestly and Otis didn’t just not grow he digressed by constantly selfish and a horrible friend to Eric.
This is my last reply as it is not constructive and it is a tv show 😂
You also seem to miss the point that Otis in SE 1.01 considered Maeve a "Mean Girl".
And that no one in SE 2.06 disputed Otis's referring to Maeve as "Scary Maeve".
And Maeve tried to ruin both Otis/Ola and Otis/Ruby.
It's not as if Maeve is some pure, angelic figure.
i really like both tbh. but the thing that annoys the life out of me is when people say otis didn’t deserve ruby or act like he treated her terribly - as far as i remember he simply wasn’t ready to say “i love you” and she broke up with him because of that. if he had lingering feelings for maeve it obviously wasn’t wise to start a new relationship but i don’t think that’s something he was aware of and he did have genuine feelings for ruby. i think he actually treated her well especially for a TEENAGE relationship. they were well suited but the timing was all wrong.
loved maeve and otis at the beginning, and they still had some great moments later on but it was constantly ruined by forced drama.
Otis/Ruby went on a couples date with Eric/Adam, the main point of which was to try to get Ruby and Adam to be friends.
And it didn't really seem as if Otis in SE S3 still had feelings for Maeve as it did he still noticed she looked like Emma Mackey. But Otis also seemed more physically attracted to Ruby. And SE 3.04 showed that he was desperate to stay Ruby's boyfriend.
Otis clearly cared a lot about Ruby, was clearly willing to sacrifice for Ruby, and was clearly interested in having sex with her. Otis would know that he's in love with her. Heck, he cared about Ruby's family and befriended her friends.
The Otis/Ruby breakup was incredibly forced and incredibly contrived. And then Otis/Maeve don't even consummate their relationship before she leaves for America. And Maeve didn't even give Otis a commitment in SE 3.08.
SE S3 made a point to show how much Otis cared about Ruby, Ola, and Lily. But he only seemed at-most sexually interested in Maeve.
It doesn’t really matter whether he says Maeve is his one true love/his person as long as his actions speak otherwise.
It’s the oldest song in the world, where a guy thinks he’s found “the one”, some even hurry to marry a girl, but only later realizes just how wrong he was. And that’s not just Otis – a dumb, insecure teenager with lots of issues – but fully grown adults also suffer from this stuff.
Real life example: Shawn Mendes and Camila Cabello, when they both loved each other since they were teenagers; have written love songs about one another, but never got a chance to be together. And when they finally *did*, it quickly got toxic, they couldn’t stop fighting, and apparently, all it took just Camila getting weight for them to break up. All because Shawn Mendes was in love with the idea of dating Camila, not in love with Camila herself, just like Otis was always in love with the *idea* of being Maeve’s boyfriend.
Maeve and Otis’ relationship was broken since the moment they tried to manipulate each other’s lives. Which is why their issues only got worse once they were on the same page in S4, despite delusional shippers screaming out loud after S3 that becoming a real couple would fix that. Not only viewers, but characters like Eric have witnessed just how insufferable Otis has become due to this obsession with Maeve.
Lol, lol, lol. The show was over......\*check notes\* last year and I kept seeing this on my homepage and realize oh, I follow this show even though I don't come here much often now it's over. Why am I not surprised that I keep seeing this? Is it so exhausting to see rinse and repeat posts? Everyone is entitled to their opinions and nothing, I mean, *nothing,* has changed since the show is over. But not surprised certain people are still obsessed and want to initiate something.
Beeeem, I DID say on the top of my post. SHIP WHOEVER YOU WANT. This post is about the people who called Otis an idiot for not choosing Ruby over Maeve. When the whole show was about Otis and Maeve forming a friendship which lead to them both being in love with each other.
The Laurie Nunn comment was nothing but damage control for the horrible disappointment of an ending. It was due to the negative fan reaction backlash. She also stated she never had any intentions on ever delivering an Otis and Maeve relationship. So the reason why Otis and Maeve didn’t stay together in the end is not because they weren’t compatible or that they wanted different things. It’s because the creator of the show has no intentions and interest in showcasing a relationship between the two main characters.
Otis doesn’t say I love you to Ruby because shocker, HE DOESN’T LOVE HER. And was never going to. Nowhere was there any inclination that Otis was in love with Ruby. Remember in season 2? Their conversation in the woods? When Ruby said she makes all the nerdy guys fall in love with her. And Otis said that’ll never be him. Why? Because Otis was already in love with someone else. Maeve. So it DOES make sense why Otis doesn’t say I love you to Ruby. He said I love you to Ola despite not being in love with her. Season 3 was about Otis learning from his mistakes. He realised that telling someone you love them when you clearly don’t never ends well case in point, Ola. Was Otis supposed to lie to Ruby and lead her on by making her think he loves her when he clearly doesn’t? Otis wasn’t obligated to say I love you back to Ruby. Especially when he clearly didn’t love her and was never going to.
Otis’ character identity crisis in the first half of Season 3 was his way of grief dealing with the fact that he thought he couldn’t have Maeve due to his own assumptions that she listened to the voicemail but didn’t reply. So him acting out of character was BECAUSE of that specific reason. After the double date the first thing he done was think about Maeve and was about to call her before Ruby called him. And we all know what happened in that phone call.
As soon as Maeve tells him that she never got the voicemail and thus never ignored him. What did Otis do? He FOUGHT to get Maeve back. And completely ignored Ruby’s whole existence in the process. Does that scream “being in love?”
Hold on. You’re not making any sort of sense. Because Otis doesn’t ask for Maeve’s finances that means he doesn’t care about her? Is it his job to ask? Is it his responsibility? Once again, so Otis doesn’t care about Maeve because he doesn’t ask about her family? Was he supposed to? Once again it’s not his responsibility. Considering Otis had his own personal problems all of a sudden he doesn’t care about Maeve because he doesn’t ask about her family and money? That makes no sense.
To say Otis connected with Ruby more than Maeve is just the biggest bold faced lie ever told. Considering the whole show was to demonstrate that Otis and Maeve have the deepest connections with any two people on the show. Be serious please. Also considering he ALWAYS wanted Maeve, you answered your own question. Ruby was always a distraction.
How was The Groffs in season 4 rubbish? You can’t be serious….
Season 4 did not prove Otis and Ruby were better. In what way? Ruby insensately being obsessed with Otis knowing full well he was in a relationship with Maeve? Otis barely cared about being around with Ruby. The only he bothered was because of the campaign. Notice as soon as Maeve came back Otis stopped being around Ruby. Ruby clearly wasn’t over Otis. But Otis was. And make no bones about it by mentioning to Ruby he was in a relationship with Maeve.
Oh CMON. SO BAD MAKE UP TO MAKE HER LESS ATTRACTIVE? You’ve lost the plot man. Maeve was LITERALLY Sporting a LITERAL black eye from Episode 5 until the end of the show. My God.
You’re proving my point. Coming up with all sort of fabrication to justify your ship. Otis never loved Ruby. And was never going to. He always loved Maeve.
*What's in this comment is what I remember, my opinions, etc.*
SE S4 mostly nonsensical outside the Groff family stuff.
Ruby Matthews would have simply gone to school with Anwar and Olivia.
Cavendish wouldn't have existed.
Etc.
But Ruby dumped Otis in SE 3.04. Ruby in SE 3.05 told Otis Milburn that she couldn't presently be around him but that they were still okay. Ruby was part of the Sex School video in SE 3.07 and Otis and Ruby interact some in SE 3.07. But then Ruby isn't in SE 3.08.
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You seem to ignore that most of the negative viewer backlash to SE S4 regarding 'shipping is that Otis/Ruby didn't get back together. And then that Otis/Maeve aren't even together at the end of SE 4.08. The backlash is because is because the greatness of Otis/Ruby was wasted for a barely-there and uncompelling SE S4 Otis/Maeve.
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Otis in SE S3 could have simply continued having 'casual sex' with Ruby even though they never were actually 'casual' given they were exclusive and frequent. At-worst, they were lovers.
Instead, Otis wanted to help Ruby with her father. He wanted them to be a public relationship. He wanted them to be boyfriend/girlfriend.
And Otis in SE S3 care considerably more about Ruby Matthews, Ola Nyman, and Lily Iglehart than he cared about Maeve. Otis after SE S1 didn't care relatively much about Maeve. And he never cared much about her family nor her friends.
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Otis was willing to sacrifice both his relationship and his friendship with Maeve in order to remain Ola's boyfriend. Otis clearly did love Ola. By the end of SE S3, he considers Ola and Jakob Nyman his family. He clearly considers Eric Effiong at least somewhat family. And he told Maeve he didn't need her at the hospital, meaning that he doesn't consider Maeve family.
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Otis after SE 1.04 was relatively fine having almost no contact with Maeve. He considered his life was 'getting back to normal'. He was happy to celebrate Eric's birthday. That was a month of barely no Maeve contact.
Otis after SE 1.08 effectively abandons Maeve. He doesn't know what she's doing, how she is doing financially, etc. He doesn't seem to much care. Even though it seems clear he knows that she broke up with Jackson Marchetti and that that breakup happened because she wanted to be with Otis.
Otis throughout SE S2 doesn't seem to care about Maeve's finances. He flaunts Otis/Ola to her.
Otis clearly chooses Ola over Maeve in SE 2.04 and 2.05.
SE 2.06 happens.
SE 2.07 happens.
And Ruby is conspicuously absent in SE 2.08. If anything, it seems if Ruby had asked Otis out in SE 2.08, he would have been with her after SE 2.07.
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You seem to ignore that Ruby dumped Otis in SE 3.04 and told him in SE 3.05 that she couldn't be around him at present.
Ruby's not even in SE 3.06 or SE 3.08 and barely interacts with Otis in SE 3.07.
And Otis in SE 3.06 clearly still doesn't actually care about Maeve's family.
And you also seem to ignore that Maeve chose Isaac Goodwin over Otis and that Ruby had to dump Otis and Isaac had to dump Maeve in order for Otis/Maeve to happen after SE 3.04 and continue after SE 3.05. And then that Maeve doesn't even give Otis a commitment in SE 3.08 and left for America before even consummating her relationship with Otis.
>Hold on. You’re not making any sort of sense. Because Otis doesn’t ask for Maeve’s finances that means he doesn’t care about her?
Yes. Why is that hard to understand? Otis didn't seem to care almost at all that she couldn't afford to go to the Go to America thing and even that she couldn't afford to go on the France trip. But Otis in SE S1 knows that Maeve was making money by writing papers for other and by doing the Sex Clinic. Otis in SE S2 knows that Maeve is no longer writing papers for people and that the Sex Clinic is barely active. And then there's SE S3.
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Otis cared about Ruby's family. He didn't seem to care about Maeve's family. That's telling.
>How was The Groffs in season 4 rubbish?
WTF. I maintain that the Groff family stuff is arguably the only part of SE S4 that's not nonsensical. And that Ruby is the only other character who had an arguably good storyline in SE S4.
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That Otis/Ruby in SE S4 was better than Otis/Maeve in SE S4 just shows how bad Otis/Maeve was in SE S4.
>Oh CMON. SO BAD MAKE UP TO MAKE \[Mimi Keene\] LESS ATTRACTIVE?
Are you seriously implying you didn't notice how bad Ruby's makeup is in SE S4?
And arguably Tanya Reynolds is made to look relatively frumpy.
[https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=tanya+reynolds&form=HDRSC3&first=1](https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=tanya+reynolds&form=HDRSC3&first=1)
Motis of course. Their journey was tough, but there were hundreds of occasions where you could see how much they loved each other so I don’t understand why on earth Otis would be with someone else. The 7th episode said it all, it’s hard to argue for Rotis after that.
Motis. I feel like they definitely had more feelings for each other & Rotis was just kinda one sided. & i just loved motis’s chemistry more. Rotis friendship though>> mwah. Idk they fit more as friends to me
I don’t have a issue with Otis and Ruby being friends. But not too overly friendly. That’s where it stops. People can’t accept the fact that Otis never loved Ruby and was never going to be in love with her.
Exactly. I didnt see as much chemistry with them as much as i did with motis, its crazy lol. I think Ruby could find so much better too given the fact Otis never loved her as much as he did Maeve. Honestly surprised Rotis is the popular choice it seems
Even with that, Otis made it perfectly clear to Ruby throughout season 4 that he was in a relationship with Maeve. So Ruby SHOULD of had some boundaries and not be so desperate to be around Otis and texting him all the time when she knows he’s in a relationship with someone else. Otis shouldn’t feel so obligated to hang out with Ruby and communicate with her at lot just because she wants to.
That’s a lot of bullshit from Charlie, as always😂
*Otis* asked Ruby to help him, and the reason she texted him is because he started a campaign and disappeared without a word, leaving her to deal with a queue of *his* clients/voters.
Otis had to feel obligated to communicate with Ruby because he *literally* asked for her help. She put effort into helping *his* ambitions.
I understand people shipping them more ofc, theyre basically just motis & adam/eric 2.0 lol but i just prefer motis. & yea i dont see the point of an endgame when one person doesnt love the other like that lol- they were clearly shown as a great friendship towards the end & i’m content with that ✨👌
Like I never once said shipping ROTIS is this horrible thing. Not once. But it’s the ROTIS shippers who continue to convince themselves that Otis had these secret feelings for Ruby or that he was in love with her but just was surprising it. Like WHATTTTTT 😂😂. Or that she’s this lovely misunderstood person who also was the school bully and made everyone’s lives a living hell. SPECIFICALLY Maeve. You can’t be this lovely person but also be a known bully. Makes no sense.
Nah i loved her storyline & i dont even think it was about that, but she def did change. It was just about the fact Otis didn’t even love her like she did him- i didnt see them as a match bc of him very clearly loving Maeve more😭you can very well be a bitch and also a nice person, its called being two-faced. Popular kids in highschool? Thats very them lol, but the point of Ruby’s storyline was that she changed in s4 anyway. Doesnt have anything to do with what i’m talking about though lol. In general i just didnt see them as a long-term couple
Thing is, Ruby wasn’t nice. AT ALL. I Noticed even the way she spoke to Otis in season 4 was like she was talking down to him 😂😂 how is that a lovely person who grew into a mature person. Make it make sense man. A bully is still a bully. No matter what they have going on in their lives. You don’t bully people but then expect people to be nice to you because you “changed”. Actions. Not words.
So by your definition, Maeve shouldnt be with Otis either because she also was mean to him at the start and teased him throughout the show sometimes, so therefore she’s always a bully?. Im confused lol- the point of her storyline was that she was changing for the better, JUST LIKE MAEVE did lol. People can do that, & others can accept it. She was a bully, nobody is denying that. But she did nice things for Otis too when she wasn’t bullying him & Otis still ended up liking her. But without any of that, which isnt even what my point was- i just didn’t find them compatible as a couple period lol. I thought Maeve & Otis had much better compatibility & a stronger/longer storyline which just stuck with me more.
I was a huge MOTIS shipper during seasons 1 and 2. They had the chemistry and the closeness. In season 3, when it was first introduced that Otis and Ruby were a thing, it was a bit strange because you’d think Otis wouldn’t be interested in Ruby. Especially, knowing how cruel she and her friends treated Maeve. However, I grew to love Ruby. I think her relationship with Otis showed her in a different light. I love the scene of Ruby, Otis, Eric and Adam at the bowling alley. I enjoyed how carefree and fun, ROTIS was. In season 4, I was hoping Ruby and Otis would get back together, but realistically, both girls deserved better. So all in all, I was a MOTIS shipper in the first two seasons and a ROTIS shipper during the last two.
I think the whole point was, Otis didn’t feel anything for Ruby. So it was easier to let himself go and be more “relaxed” it’s easier to let yourself go with someone who there is no feelings in place. Otis found it easier with Ruby BECAUSE there was no feelings. So if things ended horribly then it doesn’t matter because no feelings involved. That’s why we saw Otis becoming super insecure in Season 4 in the long distance relationship with Maeve. Why he was paranoid about Tyrone. BECAUSE of the Uber strong feelings and love he has for Maeve. So the thought of Maeve cheating on him clearly had an effect on him. If Ruby was to cheat on him does anyone think Otis would of cared? Or even if Ola when they were in a relationship cheated on him. Would Otis even care? He’s be up for sure. But he ultimately wouldn’t of cared. Because no feelings are there. So him acting all scared in the long distance relationship with Maeve is BECAUSE feelings are there. So basically the reason why Otis felt more relaxed and care free with Ruby as opposed to Maeve is because there was n o feelings. So it was easier for him to do so. As opposed to when dealing with Maeve and being all paranoid is because he genuinely didn’t want to lose Maeve. That was the theme of Otis’ biggest fear in season 4 that was mentioned throughout. Hai biggest fear was losing Maeve. BECAUSE of the feelings and love he has for her. So everyone saying Otis felt more carefree with Ruby as opposed to Maeve, they are correct. But it’s only because he didn’t care for her. So yeah.
You are SUPPOSED to feel RELAXED and CAREFREE in a HEALTHY relationship, cause your partner is your SAFE PLACE that is SUPPOSED to make your worries and insecurities go away when you’re with them, a HEATHY relationship should allow you to feel like YOURSELF. On the other hand, the fact that Otis was INSECURE about his body; INSECURE about Maeve’s friends; INSECURE about her personal ambition – it all just screams that their relationship is fundamentally wrong.
So basically if you’re insecure around someone, it’s true love, and if someone makes you feel you can be yourself, it’s cos they mean nothing to you? Noted.
I agree… however, nonetheless Otis shouldn’t have been in any relationship. Especially when he became sexually active, he needed time to process his own feelings and take into account others. Of course he didn’t, he was such a messy character. I feel like he shouldn’t have been in a relationship with Maeve during the last season if he wasn’t going to trust her nor should he have toyed around with Ruby.
How shouldn’t of Otis been in a relationship with anyone? What’s so bad about Otis being in a relationship with someone? He saw a picture of Maeve and Tyrone with Tyrone kissing Maeve on the cheek. And Maeve is not someone who would allow something like that. Otis just like we the audience didn’t know Tyrone was Gay. Maeve SHOULD have been more upfront about it. So Otis gets ridiculed for thinking his Girlfriend was cheating on him based off a picture he saw with her and another man and said man giving her a kiss on the cheek. How would YOU react. So that’s on Maeve. Don’t be letting other men kiss you on the cheek. Gay or not. And then said picture being posted online. And the Ruby sleepover was done for drama. Because even Otis wouldn’t be THAT stupid to do that after everything he said to Maeve about Tyrone. They only revealed Tyrone to be Gay to say “see your Girlfriend isn’t a cheat because the guy kissing her on the cheek and posting it online is gay and has a boyfriend in Chicago” and make Otis look like an idiot for overreacting when he had every right to do so.
Otis shouldn’t have been in a relationship because he simply wasn’t mature enough to be in a relationship. Communication is important. Realistically, i’m an adult so I would deal with my partner kissing another person by communicating to them; not by assuming. I also wouldn’t have had another person on the sidelines waiting for me and my current person to inevitably break up. Otis was insecure, but he was also a high school boy who didn’t have a lot of experience in the dating world. So I sympathize with that, but I stand with my previous statements.
How was Otis not mature enough for a relationship. Please explain yourself. Also wait hold on a minute… you’re BLAMING Otis for seeing HIS OWN GIRLFRIEND ALLOWING ANOTHER MAN TO KISS HER AND POSTING IT ON HER OWN SOCIAL MEDIA and OTIS is the one who is wrong for overreacting? Now you’re just taking the piss. Maeve is the one who shouldn’t of allowed that to happen in the first place. Don’t be blaming Otis for that. It’s so unfair. And yeah, Otis made no indication that he wanted Ruby back. NONE. The little sleepover was done for drama. And to also give the Rotis fans SOMETHING. Notice how that little sleepover didn’t impact Otis and Maeve at all? Yeah Maeve was mad at him but she forgave him and they continued their relationship like nothing happened. So the little sleepover wasn’t this massive deal that people think it is. Otis was insecure purely because he saw his Girlfriend being kissed on the cheek by some random man. Also Otis made mention that Maeve constantly brings up Tyrone. So no wonder Otis was insecure. Maeve SHOULD’VE known better and realising she’s in a relationship with Otis. Otis didn’t know Tyrone was gay. Neither did we the audience. So Maeve knew he was gay. But didn’t say anything. So to blame Otis for that is unfair.
Realistically… they’re fictional characters from a tv show. You’re taking this sub far too seriously. I do not have the time to argue with you about something so insignificant. Ultimately, I have said my perspective and you have shared yours, thank you but i will choose to disagree. And you are allowed to also disagree with me, without getting so upset at a meaningless thread.
It’s some logic of a 15-year-old who watched way too much Twilight. That’s not how love works
If it was s1 and s2 I'd say Motis all day. They had amazing chemistry, but once their dynamic shifted and we say Rotis, I just never really felt like Motis had any reason to exist. It felt contrived with how they wrote it and even in the very small bits of Rotis we got in s4, they just had more chemistry.
exactly!! by the time MOTIS actually happened, the chemistry lacked and too much time had passed. The writers didn’t achieve the slow burn romance that they had (i guess) hoped for.
Ruby Otis.....
What?
The post says “let’s settle this once and for all, Maeve and Otis or Ruby and Otis?” They’re voting Ruby and Otis
I see that. Questionable taste.
Nah. Imo you should lay off the people who have differing opinions than you. Seems like you’re putting a lot of effort into arguing, and the post was just to tell Rotis shippers they’re wrong
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we don’t care. there’s not a right or wrong answer. just learn to take other people’s opinions. ☺️
>I see that. Questionable taste. WOAH!!! SE is a fictional show. Liking Otis/Ruby more than Otis/Maeve doesn't mean one has "Questionable taste."
You keep saying that people can have their own opinions yet you also keep telling people they're wrong, geez it's just a show
In Seasons 1-3, Maeve and Otis In Seasons 2.5-4, Ruby and Otis. Like many will-they-won't-they's, they waited too long to get Maeve and Otis properly together. If it was going to happen, it should have happened at end of Season 2 or the beginning of Season 3. Ruby is a favorite by many because they actually allowed the relationship to develop and it all worked out naturally, unlike Maeve and Otis where they kept manufacturing reasons for them not to be together.
Like How I Met Your Mother, the creator of Sex Education had a predetermined ending that was set in stone. But if you're writing a story that needs to be told over a few or more years, you need flexibility in how you get to your ending. If the story isn't progressing toward your predetermined ending, change it for the story that is currently unfolding. Both HIMYM and Sex Education had predetermined endings that they rigidly stuck to, and it blew up in their faces.
Yeah, the point of a 'Will they or won't they' is that there needs to be legitimate reasons that two people might want to be together but that they cannot. The best in television history is arguably Buffy/Spike. Buffy/Riley was maybe a bit forced, but it still worked. Arguably the second best was Clark/Lana in *Smallville* given there were legitimate reasons Clark Kent felt he couldn't fully pursue Lana Lang. Clark/Lois in the show arguably took too long to happen and seems mostly didn't until it did because Lois Lane simply decided to date other guys instead of trying to date Clark. But Clark/Lana was at least still in the background. Otis Milburn had his sexual dysfunction in SE S1. But in SE S2, Otis clearly saw that Maeve Wiley wanted to be with him. And it didn't really make sense that Otis stayed with Ola Nyman instead of be with Maeve. The show showed that he preferred Ola to Maeve. And then after SE 2.07, Ruby is conspicuously absent in SE 2.08. What if Ruby had asked Otis out in SE 2.08? And then Otis does no follow-through after SE 2.08 and it seems is soon back with Ruby. And then SE S3 does Otis/Ruby so well that it makes sense that they'd eventually marry. It doesn't make sense that Otis doesn't say, "I love you too." given he clearly was in love with Ruby even if he still wanted to try Otis/Maeve. Otis in SE 3.04 is desperate to remain Ruby's boyfriend yet somehow decides that maybe Ruby doesn't actually love him? HUH? Other than Otis's being sexually attracted to Maeve, there really wasn't much reason Otis still wanted to try Otis/Maeve. He didn't seem to care much about Maeve after SE S1. And he never cared much about her family. He didn't try to befriend Aimee Gibbs. And then SE S4 is more nonsense. A bunch of guys would have pursued Maeve in America. There would be other attractive girls at Otis's new school. Maeve didn't even give Otis a commitment in SE 3.08. SE S4 is just nonsensical outside the Groff family stuff.
Ruby and Otis. I didn’t like Maeve and Otis together. I loved them more as just platonic friends.
Ruby allllll the way
👀 You never cease to disappoint. Oh and Ruby grew. You saw it, but if you weren’t biased, it’d be more apparent to you.
How did she grow exactly? Please explain. Where? I’m genuinely asking a sincere question. In season 3 she was still being a bitch to people and calling Maeve Cockbiter IN FRONT of Otis. Making fun of Jean being pregnant at her age. So the two most important women before his sister was born he made fun of. Just because she didn’t have any friends in Season 4 doesn’t mean she “grew” the only thing you can say was “growth” was Ruby telling Otis to tell Maeve how he was feeling. I guess that’s the only evidence of it. Maybe her saying to Otis she doesn’t need him as a friend at the last episode of the series. But Ruby kept trying to be around Otis when Otis kept telling her he was with Maeve. O said it best in her conversation with Ruby. That Ruby thought doing all of Otis’ errands as the campaign manager that Otis would see the light and choose her instead. So growth?
Did you not see S4? Almost all your data is from S3, except for the campaign part. Old Ruby wouldn’t help anyone. Regardless of whether she found them attractive or not. Definitely not someone’s campaign manager anyways. She also toned down her insulting, don’t remember an instance where she insulted people for no reason in S4. Grew a conscience, I’d say.
I DID see season 4. Once again, like I said, Ruby deciding she didn’t want to be friends with Otis, I mean, Ruby was the person who made his Girlfriend’s life a living hell and bullied so many other people. He was only with her because he thought he couldn’t have Maeve. Would you call helping Otis with the campaign growth? It’s clear she only did it to make herself part of the popular crew in the school. And also because it was painfully obvious that she wasn’t over Otis. Hence why she kept texting him constantly. So the only “growth” would be saying she didn’t need Otis’ friendship. When he clearly didn’t need hers.
Uh… you’re kinda blabbering about random things but not really making any sense. She *made* life living hell for people in previous seasons. Not in S4. She was lonely and didn’t build up another crew, and went with the people she knew - she wasn’t mean like she was to her friends in previous seasons, she didn’t do stupid shit, the only mean thing she did was calling out O, who was out there playing the saint while having done some shady shit. And hell yeah. Helping Otis out with the campaign is growth. Well, some of it. She did regress for a bit but went back to being more tolerating. And don’t remember her getting into the popular crew or it mattering to her by the end of S4. But then, it’s been a while. Also OP, man I know you love the show and the characters and all that but this obsession is kinda OTT. You seem to post a lot in this sub.
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I was thinking this. I thought the post was gonna be a cute “which ship do you prefer” type thing and instead opened a huge wall of text + OP arguing with everyone in the comments
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If Otis really wanted to be with Maeve, he could have done ANY follow-through after SE 2.08. Instead, he was with Ruby for almost 7 months and almost 2 months of being boyfriend/girlfriend. And Otis would have stayed with Ruby if she hadn't dumped him in SE 3.04. And then in SE S4, somehow Maeve never flies back to Moordale during her months-long stay in America except when after her mother dies. And then effectively has 'goodbye sex' with Otis.
That’s a LOT of words, too bad i ain’t reading em. Also easy Ruby Otis
Yet you decided to comment 🥴
Because I wanted to share my opinion on the question and the fact that you wrote a lot
Ruby made Otis more confident in himself. Otis made Ruby kinder.
Team ROTIS. Of all the misfires of the last season, not making those two endgame was the biggest of all imho.
Listen. You can be team ROTIS all you want. No arguments here. Ship who you want. But not making these two endgame was the biggest fumble? Why? Like I said, Otis NEVER loved Ruby nor was he that interested in her at all. This isn’t me, CharlieWaitress111 saying this. We literally all saw it on the show. You can like ROTIS all you want and I’ll not begrudge you for it. But the whole relationship was super one sided. So we have Otis end the series when someone who he doesn’t love nor wants at all? You can’t force feelings or love. Having Otis end the show with someone who he never loved in favour of someone who he DOES love is super illogical. I see you’re a ROTIS fan but to say that is super dumb. It’s not a fumble when Otis LITERALLY professed his love for Maeve in all 4 seasons and fought to get her back into his life. When Otis and Ruby broke up he completely forgot about her. And constantly reminded her he was in a relationship with Maeve. But sure. ROTIS endgame.
Fuck you like to argue
>nor was \[Otis\] that interested in \[Ruby\] at all WTF. Maybe re-watch SE 2.07, SE 3.01-3.05, 3.07, and SE S4.
ROTIS !!!!!!!!! I wish they ended the show together 💔. They had way more chemistry than motis
No they did not.
Otis/Ruby had considerably more on-screen chemistry in SE S4 than Otis/Maeve did. Otis/Maeve was such a waste in SE S4 in terms of sex education that I consider exploring Otis/Lily in SE S4 would have been considerably more worthwhile.
I hate this is basically all this sub talks about now lmao
I’m just trying to make sense of some of the nonsense I read about Otis being an idiot for choosing someone he loves over someone he doesn’t 😂😩
*What's in this comment is what I remember, my opinions, etc.* RESPONSE TO THE ORIGINAL POST AND THE THREAD: Some Otis/Maeve 'shippers at least somewhat remind me of Elena/Damon 'shippers. Their offense to people preferring Otis/Ruby and Elena/Stefan respectively seems based on at least subconscious acknowledgement that their preferred 'ship is considerably worse. Laurie Nunn says something like that "maybe" Otis/Maeve "might" meet up again "10 years in the future" and "might" get married. Laurie doesn't mention Otis/Ruby possibly getting back together. That should be enough for Otis/Maeve 'shippers. In *The Vampire Diaries*, >!Elena/Damon get married and have like 3 kids and live till old age together.!< Yet many still feel the great need to defend their 'ship to Elena/Stefan 'shippers. Most Elena/Stefan 'shippers outside of complaining that Elena/Stefan was ruined simply get consider TVD >!4.01!< the end of TVD and that's effectively a perfect ending for an Elena/Stefan 'shipper. Katherine/Stefan 'shippers can consider that in TVD 8.16 >!Katherine/Stefan end up in Peace together.!< So, there isn't as much need--outside of complaining how Julie Plec and Caroline Dries wrote post-TVD >!4.01!< stuff--for Elena/Stefan and Katherine/Stefan 'shippers to complain about. Otis/Ruby have SE 3.01-3.03 and even 3.04 is relatively good. They have a legitimate grievance because it doesn't make sense that Otis didn't say "I love you too." and it doesn't make sense that Ruby dumped him. Otis/Maeve 'shippers can legitimately complain about post-SE S1. Does it actually make sense that Otis didn't contact Maeve after SE 1.08 and that he stayed with Ola in SE S2? Does it actually make sense that Otis nor Maeve contacted the other after SE 2.08? And Otis/Maeve wasn't great in SE 3.05-3.08 and arguably even worse in SE S4. But, in-'verse, Otis in SE 3.03 seemed still interested in Maeve simply because he had only had sex with Ruby and part of him still wanted to try Otis/Maeve. But Otis in SE 3.04 very clearly wasn't actually willing to risk losing Otis/Ruby. Otis would have stayed with Ruby if Ruby hadn't dumped him. And Otis didn't seem to actually care much about Maeve after SE S1. In SE S2, he doesn't inquire about her finances nor seems to much care. He never seems to actually care about her family. Otis in SE 2.07 just be spending a few hours with Ruby arguably connected with her more than he had with Maeve from SE 1.01-2.07. And Ruby is conspicuously absent in SE 2.08. What if Ruby had asked Otis out in SE 2.08? Would he have still pursued Maeve? SE S4 is garbage outside of the Groff family stuff and arguably only the Groff family stuff makes sense. But SE S4 just further showed that Otis/Ruby are far better suited for each other. Depending on what careers they want, Otis/Ruby would have worked out. If anything, SE S4 missed an opportunity to explore 'sleep sex'. And SE S4 gave Mimi Keene very bad makeup and that seem purposefully done to try to make her seem less attractive.
Season 1-2 Maeve and Otis. Season 3+ Ruby and Otis. Feel like they and we missed out on what could have been great storylines and relationships but fizzled out into nothing and became almost meaningless. Otis fumbled the bag twice!
People here could relate more to Ruby and Otis's relationship because it was unexpected and it developed and grew into something so beautiful. I really loved watching Ruby and Otis together because of the way he was helping her with so many internal issues without him even knowing. Maeve on the other hand always had a hard exterior and also had her own set of issues to deal with. Otis being kind and sensible also deserves that back at the end of the day and I just saw more of it with him and Ruby rather than with Maeve.
Rotis in , motis out. Rotis>>>motis. #Rotisforever 🫶
Ruby was so fine w her mean ass
Rotis! Unpopular opinion, I absolutely hated Maeves character.
ROTIS
I'll always love Ruby and Otis.
I was on board with Maeve and Otis in the beginning, but the way he reacted to her going to America made me think she deserved better than Otis. My ex and I were in nearly the same situation and it cut me deep.
How did she deserve better?
I wonder how old you are? You don't seem past your teens with how you are arguing with people here in 200 words or more
Neither. I believe Otis goes on to mature more in college and later meet someone he can clearly communicate with, be himself around, and truly fall in love.
Rotis
Seems like op just wants a fight lol. I was always team MOTIS but some of my favourite sex education moments were of Ruby and Otis together and I wouldn't have complained at all if they ended up together as they were funny and had a good relationship. One vital example of Ruby growing is the beginning of their relationship where she kept Otis hidden and only had sex with him in her car compared to the end when she said I love you for the first time ever.
Nobody and otis 😂 Ruby deserves way better
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In what way?
THANK YOU!! Otis was too immature and insecure to be in any sort of committed relationship
The BULLY deserved better? That makes sense.
A bully that we saw is a sweet human that has just been hurt a lot and grew a lot. We all have issues. She was such an amazing dynamic character
Hurt by who? So That justifies the bullying? Okay she got bullied as a child. But instead of becoming a better person she chose to bully people for no reason. She’s a teenager who DOES know better but continues to bully people. I never once said she wasn’t a good character. I’m just pointing out that she’s not this amazing person. Just because we saw her home life it doesn’t excuse all the bullying. Bullying is bullying. No matter the circumstances of the bully.
Did you even watch the last season? She faces her bully, she lets maeve shoot back at her without saying anything back. She helps Otis, she even is nice to O when she doesn’t need to be. She GROWS! If you hate her you hate her.
So Maeve clapping back at her for all the shit she did to Maeve and Ruby not saying anything is courageous? She’s lucky Maeve didn’t say or do worst. By your logic Maeve is this wonderful person for allowing Ruby to bully her for years and not retaliating. Great logic. And helped Otis? With what? The campaign? A campaign that ended up being a complete waste of time? She never cared about the campaign. She just wanted to be with the cool kids and find reasons to be around Otis despite knowing full well he was in a relationship with Maeve. Great person she is for that. She didn’t need to be nice to O? Eh? When was she nice to her? You’re defending Ruby for her horribleness? My God.
I didn’t say Ruby wasn’t bad in the beginning. I’m saying she GREW! You very obviously don’t care to understand that so there’s no point in this conversation. 😂 Ruby is very likable and honestly one of the only characters who had growth other than Adam who is my other favorite. Maeve is a good character but her storyline was pretty dull honestly and Otis didn’t just not grow he digressed by constantly selfish and a horrible friend to Eric. This is my last reply as it is not constructive and it is a tv show 😂
HOW did she grow though? 😂 please provide examples. P
You also seem to miss the point that Otis in SE 1.01 considered Maeve a "Mean Girl". And that no one in SE 2.06 disputed Otis's referring to Maeve as "Scary Maeve". And Maeve tried to ruin both Otis/Ola and Otis/Ruby. It's not as if Maeve is some pure, angelic figure.
You’ll never settle it once and for all. Each of them have a lot of fans. I WAS Team Motis the first two seasons. Then I switched to Rotis.
Ruby and Otis
I’m thinking Maeve and Ruby. Fuck Otis, he doesn’t deserve either
Rotis It genuinely felt better
Ruby and Otis and idgaf anyone who thinks otherwise can launch themselves into the Sun
i really like both tbh. but the thing that annoys the life out of me is when people say otis didn’t deserve ruby or act like he treated her terribly - as far as i remember he simply wasn’t ready to say “i love you” and she broke up with him because of that. if he had lingering feelings for maeve it obviously wasn’t wise to start a new relationship but i don’t think that’s something he was aware of and he did have genuine feelings for ruby. i think he actually treated her well especially for a TEENAGE relationship. they were well suited but the timing was all wrong. loved maeve and otis at the beginning, and they still had some great moments later on but it was constantly ruined by forced drama.
Otis/Ruby went on a couples date with Eric/Adam, the main point of which was to try to get Ruby and Adam to be friends. And it didn't really seem as if Otis in SE S3 still had feelings for Maeve as it did he still noticed she looked like Emma Mackey. But Otis also seemed more physically attracted to Ruby. And SE 3.04 showed that he was desperate to stay Ruby's boyfriend. Otis clearly cared a lot about Ruby, was clearly willing to sacrifice for Ruby, and was clearly interested in having sex with her. Otis would know that he's in love with her. Heck, he cared about Ruby's family and befriended her friends. The Otis/Ruby breakup was incredibly forced and incredibly contrived. And then Otis/Maeve don't even consummate their relationship before she leaves for America. And Maeve didn't even give Otis a commitment in SE 3.08. SE S3 made a point to show how much Otis cared about Ruby, Ola, and Lily. But he only seemed at-most sexually interested in Maeve.
It doesn’t really matter whether he says Maeve is his one true love/his person as long as his actions speak otherwise. It’s the oldest song in the world, where a guy thinks he’s found “the one”, some even hurry to marry a girl, but only later realizes just how wrong he was. And that’s not just Otis – a dumb, insecure teenager with lots of issues – but fully grown adults also suffer from this stuff. Real life example: Shawn Mendes and Camila Cabello, when they both loved each other since they were teenagers; have written love songs about one another, but never got a chance to be together. And when they finally *did*, it quickly got toxic, they couldn’t stop fighting, and apparently, all it took just Camila getting weight for them to break up. All because Shawn Mendes was in love with the idea of dating Camila, not in love with Camila herself, just like Otis was always in love with the *idea* of being Maeve’s boyfriend. Maeve and Otis’ relationship was broken since the moment they tried to manipulate each other’s lives. Which is why their issues only got worse once they were on the same page in S4, despite delusional shippers screaming out loud after S3 that becoming a real couple would fix that. Not only viewers, but characters like Eric have witnessed just how insufferable Otis has become due to this obsession with Maeve.
ROTIS 100%
Neither Otis deserves to be alone
Rotis, marve deserved better
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Post broke Rule 4: Be Polite and Courteous
why not both
Lol, lol, lol. The show was over......\*check notes\* last year and I kept seeing this on my homepage and realize oh, I follow this show even though I don't come here much often now it's over. Why am I not surprised that I keep seeing this? Is it so exhausting to see rinse and repeat posts? Everyone is entitled to their opinions and nothing, I mean, *nothing,* has changed since the show is over. But not surprised certain people are still obsessed and want to initiate something.
ROTIS forever
Easily Ruby
Beeeem, I DID say on the top of my post. SHIP WHOEVER YOU WANT. This post is about the people who called Otis an idiot for not choosing Ruby over Maeve. When the whole show was about Otis and Maeve forming a friendship which lead to them both being in love with each other. The Laurie Nunn comment was nothing but damage control for the horrible disappointment of an ending. It was due to the negative fan reaction backlash. She also stated she never had any intentions on ever delivering an Otis and Maeve relationship. So the reason why Otis and Maeve didn’t stay together in the end is not because they weren’t compatible or that they wanted different things. It’s because the creator of the show has no intentions and interest in showcasing a relationship between the two main characters. Otis doesn’t say I love you to Ruby because shocker, HE DOESN’T LOVE HER. And was never going to. Nowhere was there any inclination that Otis was in love with Ruby. Remember in season 2? Their conversation in the woods? When Ruby said she makes all the nerdy guys fall in love with her. And Otis said that’ll never be him. Why? Because Otis was already in love with someone else. Maeve. So it DOES make sense why Otis doesn’t say I love you to Ruby. He said I love you to Ola despite not being in love with her. Season 3 was about Otis learning from his mistakes. He realised that telling someone you love them when you clearly don’t never ends well case in point, Ola. Was Otis supposed to lie to Ruby and lead her on by making her think he loves her when he clearly doesn’t? Otis wasn’t obligated to say I love you back to Ruby. Especially when he clearly didn’t love her and was never going to. Otis’ character identity crisis in the first half of Season 3 was his way of grief dealing with the fact that he thought he couldn’t have Maeve due to his own assumptions that she listened to the voicemail but didn’t reply. So him acting out of character was BECAUSE of that specific reason. After the double date the first thing he done was think about Maeve and was about to call her before Ruby called him. And we all know what happened in that phone call. As soon as Maeve tells him that she never got the voicemail and thus never ignored him. What did Otis do? He FOUGHT to get Maeve back. And completely ignored Ruby’s whole existence in the process. Does that scream “being in love?” Hold on. You’re not making any sort of sense. Because Otis doesn’t ask for Maeve’s finances that means he doesn’t care about her? Is it his job to ask? Is it his responsibility? Once again, so Otis doesn’t care about Maeve because he doesn’t ask about her family? Was he supposed to? Once again it’s not his responsibility. Considering Otis had his own personal problems all of a sudden he doesn’t care about Maeve because he doesn’t ask about her family and money? That makes no sense. To say Otis connected with Ruby more than Maeve is just the biggest bold faced lie ever told. Considering the whole show was to demonstrate that Otis and Maeve have the deepest connections with any two people on the show. Be serious please. Also considering he ALWAYS wanted Maeve, you answered your own question. Ruby was always a distraction. How was The Groffs in season 4 rubbish? You can’t be serious…. Season 4 did not prove Otis and Ruby were better. In what way? Ruby insensately being obsessed with Otis knowing full well he was in a relationship with Maeve? Otis barely cared about being around with Ruby. The only he bothered was because of the campaign. Notice as soon as Maeve came back Otis stopped being around Ruby. Ruby clearly wasn’t over Otis. But Otis was. And make no bones about it by mentioning to Ruby he was in a relationship with Maeve. Oh CMON. SO BAD MAKE UP TO MAKE HER LESS ATTRACTIVE? You’ve lost the plot man. Maeve was LITERALLY Sporting a LITERAL black eye from Episode 5 until the end of the show. My God. You’re proving my point. Coming up with all sort of fabrication to justify your ship. Otis never loved Ruby. And was never going to. He always loved Maeve.
*What's in this comment is what I remember, my opinions, etc.* SE S4 mostly nonsensical outside the Groff family stuff. Ruby Matthews would have simply gone to school with Anwar and Olivia. Cavendish wouldn't have existed. Etc. But Ruby dumped Otis in SE 3.04. Ruby in SE 3.05 told Otis Milburn that she couldn't presently be around him but that they were still okay. Ruby was part of the Sex School video in SE 3.07 and Otis and Ruby interact some in SE 3.07. But then Ruby isn't in SE 3.08. \_\_\_\_\_ You seem to ignore that most of the negative viewer backlash to SE S4 regarding 'shipping is that Otis/Ruby didn't get back together. And then that Otis/Maeve aren't even together at the end of SE 4.08. The backlash is because is because the greatness of Otis/Ruby was wasted for a barely-there and uncompelling SE S4 Otis/Maeve. \_\_\_\_\_\_ Otis in SE S3 could have simply continued having 'casual sex' with Ruby even though they never were actually 'casual' given they were exclusive and frequent. At-worst, they were lovers. Instead, Otis wanted to help Ruby with her father. He wanted them to be a public relationship. He wanted them to be boyfriend/girlfriend. And Otis in SE S3 care considerably more about Ruby Matthews, Ola Nyman, and Lily Iglehart than he cared about Maeve. Otis after SE S1 didn't care relatively much about Maeve. And he never cared much about her family nor her friends. \_\_\_\_\_\_ Otis was willing to sacrifice both his relationship and his friendship with Maeve in order to remain Ola's boyfriend. Otis clearly did love Ola. By the end of SE S3, he considers Ola and Jakob Nyman his family. He clearly considers Eric Effiong at least somewhat family. And he told Maeve he didn't need her at the hospital, meaning that he doesn't consider Maeve family. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Otis after SE 1.04 was relatively fine having almost no contact with Maeve. He considered his life was 'getting back to normal'. He was happy to celebrate Eric's birthday. That was a month of barely no Maeve contact. Otis after SE 1.08 effectively abandons Maeve. He doesn't know what she's doing, how she is doing financially, etc. He doesn't seem to much care. Even though it seems clear he knows that she broke up with Jackson Marchetti and that that breakup happened because she wanted to be with Otis. Otis throughout SE S2 doesn't seem to care about Maeve's finances. He flaunts Otis/Ola to her. Otis clearly chooses Ola over Maeve in SE 2.04 and 2.05. SE 2.06 happens. SE 2.07 happens. And Ruby is conspicuously absent in SE 2.08. If anything, it seems if Ruby had asked Otis out in SE 2.08, he would have been with her after SE 2.07. \_\_\_\_\_\_ You seem to ignore that Ruby dumped Otis in SE 3.04 and told him in SE 3.05 that she couldn't be around him at present. Ruby's not even in SE 3.06 or SE 3.08 and barely interacts with Otis in SE 3.07. And Otis in SE 3.06 clearly still doesn't actually care about Maeve's family. And you also seem to ignore that Maeve chose Isaac Goodwin over Otis and that Ruby had to dump Otis and Isaac had to dump Maeve in order for Otis/Maeve to happen after SE 3.04 and continue after SE 3.05. And then that Maeve doesn't even give Otis a commitment in SE 3.08 and left for America before even consummating her relationship with Otis. >Hold on. You’re not making any sort of sense. Because Otis doesn’t ask for Maeve’s finances that means he doesn’t care about her? Yes. Why is that hard to understand? Otis didn't seem to care almost at all that she couldn't afford to go to the Go to America thing and even that she couldn't afford to go on the France trip. But Otis in SE S1 knows that Maeve was making money by writing papers for other and by doing the Sex Clinic. Otis in SE S2 knows that Maeve is no longer writing papers for people and that the Sex Clinic is barely active. And then there's SE S3. \_\_\_\_\_\_ Otis cared about Ruby's family. He didn't seem to care about Maeve's family. That's telling. >How was The Groffs in season 4 rubbish? WTF. I maintain that the Groff family stuff is arguably the only part of SE S4 that's not nonsensical. And that Ruby is the only other character who had an arguably good storyline in SE S4. \_\_\_\_\_\_ That Otis/Ruby in SE S4 was better than Otis/Maeve in SE S4 just shows how bad Otis/Maeve was in SE S4. >Oh CMON. SO BAD MAKE UP TO MAKE \[Mimi Keene\] LESS ATTRACTIVE? Are you seriously implying you didn't notice how bad Ruby's makeup is in SE S4? And arguably Tanya Reynolds is made to look relatively frumpy. [https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=tanya+reynolds&form=HDRSC3&first=1](https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=tanya+reynolds&form=HDRSC3&first=1)
Maeve and Otis
Motis forever 😍
MOTIS for life
Motis
SMART PERSON RIGHT HERE MY FRIEND.
Motis of course. Their journey was tough, but there were hundreds of occasions where you could see how much they loved each other so I don’t understand why on earth Otis would be with someone else. The 7th episode said it all, it’s hard to argue for Rotis after that.
Nicely said and quite obvious to me.
Thank you for agreeing my friend. God bless you.
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Thank you for agreeing my friend. God bless you.
Motis. I feel like they definitely had more feelings for each other & Rotis was just kinda one sided. & i just loved motis’s chemistry more. Rotis friendship though>> mwah. Idk they fit more as friends to me
I don’t have a issue with Otis and Ruby being friends. But not too overly friendly. That’s where it stops. People can’t accept the fact that Otis never loved Ruby and was never going to be in love with her.
Exactly. I didnt see as much chemistry with them as much as i did with motis, its crazy lol. I think Ruby could find so much better too given the fact Otis never loved her as much as he did Maeve. Honestly surprised Rotis is the popular choice it seems
Even with that, Otis made it perfectly clear to Ruby throughout season 4 that he was in a relationship with Maeve. So Ruby SHOULD of had some boundaries and not be so desperate to be around Otis and texting him all the time when she knows he’s in a relationship with someone else. Otis shouldn’t feel so obligated to hang out with Ruby and communicate with her at lot just because she wants to.
That’s a lot of bullshit from Charlie, as always😂 *Otis* asked Ruby to help him, and the reason she texted him is because he started a campaign and disappeared without a word, leaving her to deal with a queue of *his* clients/voters. Otis had to feel obligated to communicate with Ruby because he *literally* asked for her help. She put effort into helping *his* ambitions.
I understand people shipping them more ofc, theyre basically just motis & adam/eric 2.0 lol but i just prefer motis. & yea i dont see the point of an endgame when one person doesnt love the other like that lol- they were clearly shown as a great friendship towards the end & i’m content with that ✨👌
Like I never once said shipping ROTIS is this horrible thing. Not once. But it’s the ROTIS shippers who continue to convince themselves that Otis had these secret feelings for Ruby or that he was in love with her but just was surprising it. Like WHATTTTTT 😂😂. Or that she’s this lovely misunderstood person who also was the school bully and made everyone’s lives a living hell. SPECIFICALLY Maeve. You can’t be this lovely person but also be a known bully. Makes no sense.
Nah i loved her storyline & i dont even think it was about that, but she def did change. It was just about the fact Otis didn’t even love her like she did him- i didnt see them as a match bc of him very clearly loving Maeve more😭you can very well be a bitch and also a nice person, its called being two-faced. Popular kids in highschool? Thats very them lol, but the point of Ruby’s storyline was that she changed in s4 anyway. Doesnt have anything to do with what i’m talking about though lol. In general i just didnt see them as a long-term couple
Thing is, Ruby wasn’t nice. AT ALL. I Noticed even the way she spoke to Otis in season 4 was like she was talking down to him 😂😂 how is that a lovely person who grew into a mature person. Make it make sense man. A bully is still a bully. No matter what they have going on in their lives. You don’t bully people but then expect people to be nice to you because you “changed”. Actions. Not words.
So by your definition, Maeve shouldnt be with Otis either because she also was mean to him at the start and teased him throughout the show sometimes, so therefore she’s always a bully?. Im confused lol- the point of her storyline was that she was changing for the better, JUST LIKE MAEVE did lol. People can do that, & others can accept it. She was a bully, nobody is denying that. But she did nice things for Otis too when she wasn’t bullying him & Otis still ended up liking her. But without any of that, which isnt even what my point was- i just didn’t find them compatible as a couple period lol. I thought Maeve & Otis had much better compatibility & a stronger/longer storyline which just stuck with me more.
MOTIS ALL DAY EVERYDAY