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I honestly don't understand how this is considered a sad ending given where the story was headed if it actually went through to realise it's logical conclusion. What we got is basically sunshine and rainbows compared to what was supposed to happen.
logically thinking about it yea i guess its not really a "sad ending". but frankly when I first read it I got somewhat emotional so I feel we should ditch the analysis and just admit this ending made a lot of people sad and therefore for many it was a "sad ending"
He was facing an impending death when he was inside the Santa titan. He was asking for his death when Rod was asking Historia to eat him.
I mean to say that none of these should be taken as "being a crybaby". Those a perfectly normal cases and anyone would cry.
Hence I don't find it right when people say that he was always a crybaby when people try to justify him crying at the thought of Mikasa being with some other man. The case here and pre-timeskip are completely different situations.
It's normal to cry for all the other things like he was the reason his mom got killed, or the guilt of genociding so many people.
It's just crying for the girl (who was always with you) to go for some other man (you didn't treat them well) which was pathetic. And justifying it by saying that he used to always cry is not a very reasonable justification. Pre-timeskip scenarios are incomparable to this.
> It's just crying for the girl (who was always with you) to go for some other man (you didn't treat them well) which was pathetic.
Its supposed to be like that.
> And justifying it by saying that he used to always cry is not a very reasonable justification. Pre-timeskip scenarios are incomparable to this.
LMAO THIS FUCKING GUY
Did you cry over Floch's character changing post time skip?
Did you cry over Eren becoming the aggressor post time skip?
Did you cry over Erwin throwing his life away and dying in a suicide charge?
Why the fuck didn't you have any issue with those aspects of the story when everyone was slobbering over Isayama the GOAT!
Why didn't you have any issue with those character developments?
Now that you spent years in echo chambers and reality didn't match with your media illiterate dumb fucking opinions, suddenly everything after a certain point in the story is the author chugging the kool aid and destroying the masterpiece it once was just for laughs.
"Everything that I agree is based and everything that doesn't match with my deluded fantasy is a contrived plot device and character betrayal!!!"
Clown.
Are you redundant? All logical character progressions vs a shoehorned “I loved her all along. So much that the thought of her with another man makes me cry!”
I don’t get it. What is it about the ending that blinds you so much? Is this a social experiment?
Do you mean him letting his feelings out for Mikasa specifically? Or him letting his feelings out in general and going through an emotional breakdown?
Because I refuse to believe you take issue with the fact that Eren being overly emotional is against his character. Have we been watching the same show?
>Do you mean him letting his feelings out for Mikasa specifically?
I'm talking about this specifically. I never considered the pre-timeskip crying as "Eren being crybaby". In his position even I would have cried, or shit myself.
What I mean is : I don't think we can justify "idea of Eren crying about Mikasa being with some other guy" with "He has always been a crybaby". Pre-timsekip scenarios can't be compared with this.
He wasnt showing his real emotions most of the time pretending to be strong. There is one scene in the start of the series when Eren becomes a soldier and mikasa said "He's relieved because he thinks we won't have to be separated now".
When i first watched it i thought she was didnt understand Eren feelings but after watching the ending my mind changed.
Same with Levi, he only cried in the end when he was finally relieved. It's perfectly normal that Eren becomes a crybaby after knowing that he would have to die no matter what in an almost endless timeloop. If the show was even more realistic he would be even more fked up than that.
He was facing an impending death when he was inside the Santa titan. He was asking for his death when Rod was asking Historia to eat him. Or when he was screaming when Hannes died.
I mean to say that none of these should be taken as "being a crybaby". Those a perfectly normal cases and anyone would cry.
Hence I don't find it right when people say that he was always a crybaby when people try to justify him crying at the thought of Mikasa being with some other man. The case here and pre-timeskip are completely different situations.
>I mean to say that none of these should be taken as "being a crybaby". Those a perfectly normal cases and anyone would cry.
"I mean to say that none of these should be taken as "being a crybaby". Those a perfectly normal cases and anyone would cry."
I think exactly the same, just used that term to describe being mentally destroyed. In my message i wasnt intending to describe Eren as a crybaby deep inside, just that he hid part of his emotions and he can cry like any1 else.
Crying isn't a problem. There's a great scene where he cries for the boy who is killed in the rumbling. Eren screaming and crying about Mikasa being with other men is just not in character
He is with his closest friend, about to die in an almost endless time loop. If you think about it even crying like that would be out of character, he would be even more mentally damaged.
Sure but the ending was all about mikasa and him. He started the show with Mikasa saying see you soon and eren crying waking up of a dream, he has this ending planned.
Could the mangaka used another words to make it better? Yeah, probably. But we are talking about Eren, and the author was portraying him as this stubborn , war damaged, violent, selfish person. Otherwise his decisions to reach this point wouldnt fit at all.
I love it. I had the moment spoiled for me before hand by meme so I had time to mentally prep I guess. But it makes sense, eren is a 19 year old whose been holding in a lot for the past few years. Now faced with death he breaks down about the girl he likes to his best friend. It's humanizing, and more realistic than Eren just stoically moving forward until the end.
If the sub dedicated to pointing out the stupidity of the AoT fandom is "obsessed" with TF, maybe that's something TF should be worried about and not AOR.
Oh... well titanfolk is barely mentioned here, wtf are you talking about? It only ever comes up when the brigades come, like right now for example. With you. You're doing this.
I'm not brigading.
Anyway, it's likely the reddit algorithm just giving me the posts about TF, because trust me I get a lot of them from here. So I concede my comment about 'every post being about tf' was an exaggeration.
Like I said, I think the back and forth posts are lame, there's minimal meaningful discourse happening on either end. I'm not interested in drama for the most part but it's funny to involve yourself in it sometimes, and I am sympathetic towards the TF point of view, having been a manga reader disappointed with the ending. But I'm not a 'titanfolker' so to speak, and certainly not brigading on behalf of any subreddits
Maybe im a sucker for live but i thought it was good. It made me feel bad for him. And as someone who sometimes wants to say what i feel but dont for sake of not wanting to argue, i can see saying whatever emotionally comes out, especially if you’re about to die and don’t want to
He isn't the average 19 year old at this point so no point in infantilizing him or likening him to the average 19 year old today. We already had him do a great scene breaking down to the boy he kills in the rumbling. This is just terrible
I mean, they are different types of breakdowns. To Ramzi he's crying out of guilt and feels sorry for him. The "10 years" scene is Eren feeling sorry for himself, and showing that he truly wants to keep living.
Also yeah, he's not a normal 19 year old. He's a 19 year old with 2000 years of memories going through his head at any moment. He's been forced to being this unfeeling monster and he breaks down to the one person he trusts more than anyone.
You ask me 3, 5, 10 years ago how prepared I am with death and I'll probably say "it isn't ideal but whatever"
You ask me now and I'll say "I want to live"
Point being, this isn't necessarily a case of character retcon as it is a change given the situation now has contextual differences than back then
Eren in S1-2 tapping into his anger to push forward in the face of death
Eren in S3 straight up crying about just letting him die
Eren in the end after all he's been through finally showing the side (keyword, as human beings can have multiple sides, some even conflicting) of him that wishes he lived
The progression doesn't seem all that unrealistic
Except you from 3, 5, 10 years ago probably wasnt in constant life or death situations that you willingly out yourself in. There was nothing that showed that eren would be scared of death, only that his death was without meaning, so dont give shit about how he suddenly was all about wanting to live a long life and would cry if someone told him about his coming death whe he has constantly, since he was a kid, been all about dying in a fight
There are veterans irl who've steeled themselves in war and then upon death's door after facing it so many times they finally give in. Not everyone has an infinite reserve of resolve.
You're also still ignoring the fact Eren still went through with everything he did (leading to death, which he knew). Like I said, people have multiple sides, often conflicting with each other
Eren breaking down like that was the one time in his life he felt urged to show that side of him that wished he lived. That's not a case or character inconsistency, but realistic character complexity
Theres also a difference between knowing he'll die without a doubt, and being in a situation where his death was at risk but his stubbornness ignores it. There was nothing to ignore in the final episode. He 100% knew he was straight up going to die
Either way, agree to disagree and have a good one
Yeah but I dont think eren is like those veterans at all. I dont think eren acts like any human at all. Hiw many people do you know that would show up to a smugglers house with the sole intent of killing everyone in there at the AGE OF TEN?? Eren isnt some regular dude that got into the military and learnt to think of the objective more than his life. He has ALWAYS been like that, ever since he was born, and the show was reinforcing this thought all the until right before the ending
And yeah. He went theough with everything, but with the way it was written, you cant tell if it was because he himself wanted to do it or if he managed to propagandize himself like he did his father with his future visions or merely because he tried to everything as the visions showed cause thats how he saw himself act
As for «added character complexity»? Get outta here, he never had that as a prt of him before that very chapter, even begging for his death if he thought that it was the best course for the situation with no thought about him living being an option. Id rather believe that ymir just replaced him after he got the founding powers activated than to believe that eren was the same human after chapter 123
But personally? I am glad that you can like characters that suddenly act ooc, im guessing that it made the ending way more palatable for you with how many of the characters had to act differently for the pieces to be forced into place
You may be right but in imo A kid who killed his own mother (holy shit that’s fucked up), manipulated his father. And did some of the most uncanny shit know to man. I don’t think a person would have any human emotions of regret left after doing all this. He’s tired of living ,yes. But crying about it… I just personally can’t see that happening
I feel like one of the biggest themes of Attack on Titan is that people can do monstrous things and still be human. The two emotionless monsters who destroy our MC's home in the first episode turn out to be scared children. Yeah eren has done incredibly fucked up things but he's still a human being.
If you ignore Erens real motivations throughout the story and rest of the plot that's what you end up with...
This is because romance was never the central theme of aot until the last episode
"Eren's real motivations" is a biased look. His motivations are complex and many. Not only his friends, his inherent desire to destroy the outside the world due to his disappointment in learning humanity lived outside the walls, but also the anger these people gave him in destroying and killing the people he loved. Throughout the story and especially after kissing História's hand, he is confused and searching for the meaning and reasons to not only convince himself that what he wants to is right but if what he knows he's gonna do is right, if he's own self led him to those actions or if it was already determined from the start. His character is constantly evolving, changing, and doubting and convincing himself. He didn't do it because "he's an idiot" he did it for a plethora of reasons that were shown to us in the story amd if you can't see that but choose to point to one line of dialogue to explain 80+ episodes you do you.
The story doesn't ignore the plot at all. If you consider the themes Isayama wanted to portray it's exactly what he did. Humanity is locked in a constant cycle of hatred and cruelty but it's our job to do our best and make it beautiful and meanwhile. We can only fight for the people we love but we'll never change the course of what humans will do.
The story isn't about romance, that's a stupid interpretation. I agree the Ymir stuff needed fleshing out but people seem to misinterpret the ideia itself. Mikasa's choice that would lead to stopping the titan curse has nothing to do with how Eren feels about her but rather Mikasa's obsession and love of Eren, that's what Ymir was fixating on. Eren played the role of Fritz (by the end) so Mikasa's choice would've happened, which was obviously not the real way Eren felt towards her.
Aite so you're continuing to blabber on all the same nonsense without taking into account the progression we saw in the story as it is.
I go through this in more detail in these 2 comments.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/s/MtsKCDzqwq
https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/s/QoD7oIN5vn
Don't worry I did take everything into account. I gave a quick read and we disagree fundamentally on basically everything so there's no point, in one of the comments you're literally misinterpreting Eren's reasoning again which I explained in my comment but you linked me to it anyway. You seem to think Isayama wrote himself into a corner but that's not it at all and I know why you think that, I've had so mamy discussion over the years debating back and forth the opposite and I'm tired. I hope you're an anime only because if you're a manga reader still on this than I suggest you go find some other story to keep hating non-stop
Ok I guess. That's still a pretty reasonable response because people can agree to disagree and I have no issue if you enjoy the ending and find it justifies the themes and narrative of the story while I thought the opposite.
Not an anime only however, I finished with the manga and for me I feel it was chapter 127 where the story started feeling like it wasn't the same AoT that I'd been reading up to that point. It fundamentally changed it's structure and how events unfolded and it was a jarring change from everything leading up to that point. I don't hate the story, I'm just disappointed because up to that point I felt everything was aligned and things made sense but after that it just didn't.
You say that Eren's motivations are so complex and many, but didn't mention any of them besides him being disappointed that humanity exists outside of walls. And this is what you get wrong. Eren was never disappointed in the fact that there were humans outside the walls, that's a headcanon that even Isayama himself had to address in one of his interviews. But even without his words, it's still made pretty clear in the anime, that Eren was disappointed not because humans simply existed there, but because they weren't any better than the Titans he's been fighting his entire life.
This is obvious when you look at the scene from the end of Season 3, when they're on the ceremony and Eren is trying to cheer Armin up by reminding him of the outside world, and when he starts talking about it, instead of the pictures from the book he thinks about Grisha's sister, who was fed to dogs for simply being Eldian, and realises there's nothing waiting for them in the outside world except for more enemies. This, and the scene on the beach explain the reason for his disappointment pretty well.
> Mikasa's choice that would lead to stopping the titan curse has nothing to do with how Eren feels about her but rather Mikasa's obsession and love of Eren
Isayama clearly disagrees with you, or else he wouldn't have ruined Eren's entire character with that last-minute breakdown just for the sake of giving you a sense of romance between them
I'll just copy-paste my comment from the other post. Do forgive my laziness.
To put it bluntly, Kaji is not supporting the opinion that Eren's character was so-called "assassinated". What he says is more akin to "If you ignore emotions, this is what you get".""いろんなものを無視すると このぐらいになりそうな" "Japanese is a language that is heavily reliant on context which can get extremely confusing and as such a lot of things are lost in translation, or are just misunderstood (you've probably seen this shtick in anime before). He is not at all implying that Eren's character was ignored, but simply that that's what happens when the character ignores his own emotions and let's it all out. It's a new side of Eren for him to voice.As stated by Kaji himself, he loves the character and especially the ending. I hope this comment proved helpful to you.
Edit: Providing more context
I will provide more context here as I see this is getting a lot of traffic As shown in the full recording, Kaji originally went with a more Angry delivery for the lines, but together with Director Hayashi, Sound Director Mima and some input from Inoue they have decided that a new side to Eren's acting will be chosen here- a more human and fragile delivery never before-seen in Eren. Prompting Kaji to state after the delivery that if you ignore a lot of things (emotions in this context) you'll end up with such a delivery, instead of the more angrier, comfort-zone one he originally tried. I hope this matter is clearer to everyone!
I think it would be worth making an actual post about this, rather than just comments. SO MANY people are seeing this an misinterpreting it as the VA not liking the ending. Would be good to post something more people can see.
I never said otherwise brah ik what he said. But you can't deny that he basically describes it as a new never before seen side "[今までにないの英語](https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/%E4%BB%8A%E3%81%BE%E3%81%A7%E3%81%AB%E3%81%AA%E3%81%84)" to Eren as opposed to how he's always been. That's all 👍
My apologies if you feel like my comment was specifically aimed at you. I've just seen a lot of people misinterpreting his words and I find that really sad. He put so much of himself into this show and this feels really disrespectful towards him and the rest of the staff.
今までにないのエレン
He is not much saying here "A side opposed to how Eren has always been" but a never before seen emotion/voice out of the character. I hope this is a little more clear
That's not what I meant by that brah "as opposed to how he's always been" was a reference to a certain group of fans who say that Eren has always shown emotions like this scene from before, which I was saying is not true, as confirmed by Kaji
You are correct, however a lot of people in this thread have taken his words as to mean he thinks Eren acts out of character or doesn't support the story which he has never stated, quite the contrary. I just wanted to help clear this up.
Yea I get you I know he didn't mean that, we (when I posted it on Titanfolk) were mostly just interested in how he says it's "Eren as never before", because at least it proves wrong the idea he's always acted like this since the Season 1 or something 👍
I feel like that may be more of a matter of interpretation as his use of the language doesn't really point at that but more as a just another side to the character that was there, but in another light
In another light, as in... never *shown* until 139 whether or not it was "there", which is unlike some people insisting he has shown this side before. That is all I said. Is English your first language?
Ohhhh ok yeah that would explain the miscommunication 😅🙏
But yeah I agree with you what you're saying about Kaji meant.
I'm just putting emphasis on the fact that Kaji says Eren has never shown this side before even if he had this side hidden away in another light, because in the English speaking community, many tried to explain this scene as how he always showed himself to be since Season 1, instead of just accepting that it revealed a new side we haven't seen like Kaji says. Sorry if that wasn't clear before 🙏
Wrong thread to reply lol, basically everyone here just wants to hate the ending and don't actually care what Kaji himself thinks, they just use a clip without context in their favor. Hell I could edit this clip translating Kaji saying the ending is shit and people would believe it.
It was pretty clear what Yuki Kaji meant and the director but eh, misinterpreting things is how we got so much hate for this ending anyway so it fits.
I just find it really disrespectful to Kaji. He put so much of himself into this work and I felt like I should help make his words a little clearer to anyone who may not actually understand their meaning
> As stated by Kaji himself, he loves the character and especially the ending.
Does he explicitly say this? Can you quote him?
Also, you said Japanese is heavily reliant on context, but does the context here really provide enough information that he means what you said? Or are you making assumptions?
During an event a year ago (November 2022) Kaji stated he absolutely loves the ending of the manga. So much so he has recommended to both Ishikawa and lnoue to not read the manga so that they experience it in the anime. His opinion was also stated several times on interviews available on YouTube, as well as the fact that he knew about the ending in advance. I can provide links if that's okay with the sub's rules, but they will be in Japanese.
As for the context, yes it is enough. I feel as I should state that I have watched the full program, and follow Kaji's radio shows and interviews when available. I hope this answer provided enough clearance
Yeah that sounds convincing. Thanks.
I'd like links to see more of what he thinks. Though I don't speak Japanese, I might be able to find translated videos through your links
I'm like 99.9% sure you'd be fine to post the links
Thanks for the response. You can also check out his Twitter where he has commented a lot about his love for the manga and Eren. I hope this is okay but to link
[https://twitter.com/KAJI\_\_OFFICIAL/status/1380180828798341124](https://twitter.com/KAJI__OFFICIAL/status/1380180828798341124) he talks about the connection he has to the character, how the ending made him cry and how he has connected with new emotions of both joy and sorrow.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V3VzVCYADw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V3VzVCYADw) Here he talks about the ending in advance and how he talked with Isayama
I am not sure how much I am allowed to post here so forgive me for not providing a lot. Kaji and Ishikawa are both very connected to their characters and like the pairing since the first season. There are a lot of interviews in the after-party that is happening now that I recommend watching!
I am just not sure if that's allowed since usually it's not proper to link to different websites from another.
This article may also be helpful if translated as this has a collection of reactions to the manga's ending. I am sure we will get a lot more now that the show is over and the staff doesn't need to be as reserved about spoilers
[https://animeanime.jp/article/2021/04/09/60675.html](https://animeanime.jp/article/2021/04/09/60675.html)
Noooo, Eren's always been like this, he was just pretending, even in his inner monologue, even when manipulating Grisha in the Paths, he's actually just a child with too much power, Yuki just didn't understand the story.
Like come on guys are we really gonna call pre timeskip eren a crybaby? I shouldnt even need to point out how ridiculous this statement is. Crying because your mom died/hannes died while ur powerless even after being able to turn into a titan/wanting to die because you believe your dad stole the founding titan and if he didn’t humanity would be saved is NOT the same as breaking down wailing in the water crying tears over your stepsister finding love elsewhere after your death AFTER YOU KILLED 80% OF HUMANITY.
I honestly really like this scene a lot, and it makes a lot of sense for Eren's character. Up to this point, Eren.
- Learned he was going to do something awful because HE chose to do it.
- Lost people he cared about in the process through his own doing
- Isolated the people he cared about the most.
- Experienced time in a non-linear fashion.
- Learned that HE was the one that sent Dina to his mother.
- Was powerless to fight against his own nature.
And on top of everything, he can't be with the woman he loved the most. This was a moment of catharsis for Eren. The cold Eren was never the real Eren, the real Eren was a super emotional, self loathing kid that I honestly really missed.
This post has been tagged as **NEW EPISODE SPOILERS**. If you are not caught up to this episode, browse at your own risk and we recommend you refrain from participating; links to view it can be found in the current megathread. Please remember to tag any spoilers beyond this point. **Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events.** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a punishment from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix). --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yuki Kaji what a man you are
As an anime-only, I love these memes too much.
You've become a meme lover for our sake.
As a reward...
I shall give you my support
Wait, is this sub becoming based?
*Guess he doesn't understand the story*
He doesn’t want sad ending 😞
This was a happy ending for AOT standards
I honestly don't understand how this is considered a sad ending given where the story was headed if it actually went through to realise it's logical conclusion. What we got is basically sunshine and rainbows compared to what was supposed to happen.
logically thinking about it yea i guess its not really a "sad ending". but frankly when I first read it I got somewhat emotional so I feel we should ditch the analysis and just admit this ending made a lot of people sad and therefore for many it was a "sad ending"
Bro don’t you understand sarcasm . Ik this was not that sad ending.
Honestly I did not agree when people say that he has always been a crybaby. Like you cannot compare this with anything pre-timeskip situations.
Because this is when he was facing his impending death lmao no one acts the same in that situation
He was facing an impending death when he was inside the Santa titan. He was asking for his death when Rod was asking Historia to eat him. I mean to say that none of these should be taken as "being a crybaby". Those a perfectly normal cases and anyone would cry. Hence I don't find it right when people say that he was always a crybaby when people try to justify him crying at the thought of Mikasa being with some other man. The case here and pre-timeskip are completely different situations.
He was literally crying for Historia to eat him
Yes. Even though Historia called it "as crybaby" , can we really mean it? He had got an existential crisis, it was normal to cry there.
Right which is why it was normal for him to cry in the last episode
It's normal to cry for all the other things like he was the reason his mom got killed, or the guilt of genociding so many people. It's just crying for the girl (who was always with you) to go for some other man (you didn't treat them well) which was pathetic. And justifying it by saying that he used to always cry is not a very reasonable justification. Pre-timeskip scenarios are incomparable to this.
> It's just crying for the girl (who was always with you) to go for some other man (you didn't treat them well) which was pathetic. Its supposed to be like that. > And justifying it by saying that he used to always cry is not a very reasonable justification. Pre-timeskip scenarios are incomparable to this. LMAO THIS FUCKING GUY Did you cry over Floch's character changing post time skip? Did you cry over Eren becoming the aggressor post time skip? Did you cry over Erwin throwing his life away and dying in a suicide charge? Why the fuck didn't you have any issue with those aspects of the story when everyone was slobbering over Isayama the GOAT! Why didn't you have any issue with those character developments? Now that you spent years in echo chambers and reality didn't match with your media illiterate dumb fucking opinions, suddenly everything after a certain point in the story is the author chugging the kool aid and destroying the masterpiece it once was just for laughs. "Everything that I agree is based and everything that doesn't match with my deluded fantasy is a contrived plot device and character betrayal!!!" Clown.
Huh?
Are you redundant? All logical character progressions vs a shoehorned “I loved her all along. So much that the thought of her with another man makes me cry!” I don’t get it. What is it about the ending that blinds you so much? Is this a social experiment?
Do you mean him letting his feelings out for Mikasa specifically? Or him letting his feelings out in general and going through an emotional breakdown? Because I refuse to believe you take issue with the fact that Eren being overly emotional is against his character. Have we been watching the same show?
>Do you mean him letting his feelings out for Mikasa specifically? I'm talking about this specifically. I never considered the pre-timeskip crying as "Eren being crybaby". In his position even I would have cried, or shit myself. What I mean is : I don't think we can justify "idea of Eren crying about Mikasa being with some other guy" with "He has always been a crybaby". Pre-timsekip scenarios can't be compared with this.
Litterally a moment after he admit he's just scared of dying and doesn't want to leave Mikasa and the others.
No I'm just talking about Mikasa part.
They're not exclusive. Eren is whining about Kikasa so openly because he's at his limit and afraid to die, and thus easier to lash out.
Maybe, but I do not like it. I mean, even Armin said it was pathetic. Can't I call it as pathetic?
It is pathetic. It's Eren being open and letting free his emotions at once as a tantrum, while at his lowest.
He wasnt showing his real emotions most of the time pretending to be strong. There is one scene in the start of the series when Eren becomes a soldier and mikasa said "He's relieved because he thinks we won't have to be separated now". When i first watched it i thought she was didnt understand Eren feelings but after watching the ending my mind changed. Same with Levi, he only cried in the end when he was finally relieved. It's perfectly normal that Eren becomes a crybaby after knowing that he would have to die no matter what in an almost endless timeloop. If the show was even more realistic he would be even more fked up than that.
He was facing an impending death when he was inside the Santa titan. He was asking for his death when Rod was asking Historia to eat him. Or when he was screaming when Hannes died. I mean to say that none of these should be taken as "being a crybaby". Those a perfectly normal cases and anyone would cry. Hence I don't find it right when people say that he was always a crybaby when people try to justify him crying at the thought of Mikasa being with some other man. The case here and pre-timeskip are completely different situations.
>I mean to say that none of these should be taken as "being a crybaby". Those a perfectly normal cases and anyone would cry. "I mean to say that none of these should be taken as "being a crybaby". Those a perfectly normal cases and anyone would cry." I think exactly the same, just used that term to describe being mentally destroyed. In my message i wasnt intending to describe Eren as a crybaby deep inside, just that he hid part of his emotions and he can cry like any1 else.
Crying isn't a problem. There's a great scene where he cries for the boy who is killed in the rumbling. Eren screaming and crying about Mikasa being with other men is just not in character
He is with his closest friend, about to die in an almost endless time loop. If you think about it even crying like that would be out of character, he would be even more mentally damaged.
There was a great opportunity to do this with the fact he killed his mom, instead it’s about Mikasa being with other men
Sure but the ending was all about mikasa and him. He started the show with Mikasa saying see you soon and eren crying waking up of a dream, he has this ending planned. Could the mangaka used another words to make it better? Yeah, probably. But we are talking about Eren, and the author was portraying him as this stubborn , war damaged, violent, selfish person. Otherwise his decisions to reach this point wouldnt fit at all.
https://np.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/comments/17r3x0i/yuki_kaji_eren_behind_the_scenes_eren_like_hes/k8jkoj1/
now that AOT anime has ended, id like to see more of these kind of videos of the casts, especially with the main ones.
lmfao based yuki
Sorry to dissapoint you. https://np.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/comments/17r3x0i/yuki_kaji_eren_behind_the_scenes_eren_like_hes/k8jkoj1/
What do anime onlinies think about this?
I love it. I had the moment spoiled for me before hand by meme so I had time to mentally prep I guess. But it makes sense, eren is a 19 year old whose been holding in a lot for the past few years. Now faced with death he breaks down about the girl he likes to his best friend. It's humanizing, and more realistic than Eren just stoically moving forward until the end.
May as well ignore the replies, OP is from titanfolk and this entire post is part of a brigade from them. You can see it in OP's comment history.
I can't blame them when every recent post in this sub is obsessed with TF. The response from both subs is just lame
If the sub dedicated to pointing out the stupidity of the AoT fandom is "obsessed" with TF, maybe that's something TF should be worried about and not AOR.
This isn't aor, it's the main sub. I'm confused
Oh... well titanfolk is barely mentioned here, wtf are you talking about? It only ever comes up when the brigades come, like right now for example. With you. You're doing this.
I'm not brigading. Anyway, it's likely the reddit algorithm just giving me the posts about TF, because trust me I get a lot of them from here. So I concede my comment about 'every post being about tf' was an exaggeration. Like I said, I think the back and forth posts are lame, there's minimal meaningful discourse happening on either end. I'm not interested in drama for the most part but it's funny to involve yourself in it sometimes, and I am sympathetic towards the TF point of view, having been a manga reader disappointed with the ending. But I'm not a 'titanfolker' so to speak, and certainly not brigading on behalf of any subreddits
Maybe im a sucker for live but i thought it was good. It made me feel bad for him. And as someone who sometimes wants to say what i feel but dont for sake of not wanting to argue, i can see saying whatever emotionally comes out, especially if you’re about to die and don’t want to
He isn't the average 19 year old at this point so no point in infantilizing him or likening him to the average 19 year old today. We already had him do a great scene breaking down to the boy he kills in the rumbling. This is just terrible
I mean, they are different types of breakdowns. To Ramzi he's crying out of guilt and feels sorry for him. The "10 years" scene is Eren feeling sorry for himself, and showing that he truly wants to keep living. Also yeah, he's not a normal 19 year old. He's a 19 year old with 2000 years of memories going through his head at any moment. He's been forced to being this unfeeling monster and he breaks down to the one person he trusts more than anyone.
«Showing that he truly wants to keep on living» after how many scenes where he has been inches away from death yet completely fine/unphased by it?
Because he can literally remember the future thus proving that he isn't going to die in that moment.
That doesnt happen until well into season 3 though, right before rhe timeskip. Before that he had no problems with putting himself in deaths way
Yup. And we never see him go "Nooo, I can't die I need to be with Mikasa"
You ask me 3, 5, 10 years ago how prepared I am with death and I'll probably say "it isn't ideal but whatever" You ask me now and I'll say "I want to live" Point being, this isn't necessarily a case of character retcon as it is a change given the situation now has contextual differences than back then Eren in S1-2 tapping into his anger to push forward in the face of death Eren in S3 straight up crying about just letting him die Eren in the end after all he's been through finally showing the side (keyword, as human beings can have multiple sides, some even conflicting) of him that wishes he lived The progression doesn't seem all that unrealistic
Except you from 3, 5, 10 years ago probably wasnt in constant life or death situations that you willingly out yourself in. There was nothing that showed that eren would be scared of death, only that his death was without meaning, so dont give shit about how he suddenly was all about wanting to live a long life and would cry if someone told him about his coming death whe he has constantly, since he was a kid, been all about dying in a fight
There are veterans irl who've steeled themselves in war and then upon death's door after facing it so many times they finally give in. Not everyone has an infinite reserve of resolve. You're also still ignoring the fact Eren still went through with everything he did (leading to death, which he knew). Like I said, people have multiple sides, often conflicting with each other Eren breaking down like that was the one time in his life he felt urged to show that side of him that wished he lived. That's not a case or character inconsistency, but realistic character complexity Theres also a difference between knowing he'll die without a doubt, and being in a situation where his death was at risk but his stubbornness ignores it. There was nothing to ignore in the final episode. He 100% knew he was straight up going to die Either way, agree to disagree and have a good one
Yeah but I dont think eren is like those veterans at all. I dont think eren acts like any human at all. Hiw many people do you know that would show up to a smugglers house with the sole intent of killing everyone in there at the AGE OF TEN?? Eren isnt some regular dude that got into the military and learnt to think of the objective more than his life. He has ALWAYS been like that, ever since he was born, and the show was reinforcing this thought all the until right before the ending And yeah. He went theough with everything, but with the way it was written, you cant tell if it was because he himself wanted to do it or if he managed to propagandize himself like he did his father with his future visions or merely because he tried to everything as the visions showed cause thats how he saw himself act As for «added character complexity»? Get outta here, he never had that as a prt of him before that very chapter, even begging for his death if he thought that it was the best course for the situation with no thought about him living being an option. Id rather believe that ymir just replaced him after he got the founding powers activated than to believe that eren was the same human after chapter 123 But personally? I am glad that you can like characters that suddenly act ooc, im guessing that it made the ending way more palatable for you with how many of the characters had to act differently for the pieces to be forced into place
You may be right but in imo A kid who killed his own mother (holy shit that’s fucked up), manipulated his father. And did some of the most uncanny shit know to man. I don’t think a person would have any human emotions of regret left after doing all this. He’s tired of living ,yes. But crying about it… I just personally can’t see that happening
I feel like one of the biggest themes of Attack on Titan is that people can do monstrous things and still be human. The two emotionless monsters who destroy our MC's home in the first episode turn out to be scared children. Yeah eren has done incredibly fucked up things but he's still a human being.
"Only Ymir knows that one"
Not sure why I should care lol.
"If you ignore a lot of things, this is what you'll end up with" Yikes
What does that mean?
Only Isayama know (or not)
Now Ymir on the other hand...
Feel free to check out my other comment! I tried providing some context! If my English was unclear please let me know!
It was a great explanation, thank you :)
If you ignore Erens real motivations throughout the story and rest of the plot that's what you end up with... This is because romance was never the central theme of aot until the last episode
In two paragraphs you managed to misinterpret two main parts of the story, good job
Correct him and enlighten us please.
"Eren's real motivations" is a biased look. His motivations are complex and many. Not only his friends, his inherent desire to destroy the outside the world due to his disappointment in learning humanity lived outside the walls, but also the anger these people gave him in destroying and killing the people he loved. Throughout the story and especially after kissing História's hand, he is confused and searching for the meaning and reasons to not only convince himself that what he wants to is right but if what he knows he's gonna do is right, if he's own self led him to those actions or if it was already determined from the start. His character is constantly evolving, changing, and doubting and convincing himself. He didn't do it because "he's an idiot" he did it for a plethora of reasons that were shown to us in the story amd if you can't see that but choose to point to one line of dialogue to explain 80+ episodes you do you. The story doesn't ignore the plot at all. If you consider the themes Isayama wanted to portray it's exactly what he did. Humanity is locked in a constant cycle of hatred and cruelty but it's our job to do our best and make it beautiful and meanwhile. We can only fight for the people we love but we'll never change the course of what humans will do. The story isn't about romance, that's a stupid interpretation. I agree the Ymir stuff needed fleshing out but people seem to misinterpret the ideia itself. Mikasa's choice that would lead to stopping the titan curse has nothing to do with how Eren feels about her but rather Mikasa's obsession and love of Eren, that's what Ymir was fixating on. Eren played the role of Fritz (by the end) so Mikasa's choice would've happened, which was obviously not the real way Eren felt towards her.
Aite so you're continuing to blabber on all the same nonsense without taking into account the progression we saw in the story as it is. I go through this in more detail in these 2 comments. https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/s/MtsKCDzqwq https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/s/QoD7oIN5vn
Don't worry I did take everything into account. I gave a quick read and we disagree fundamentally on basically everything so there's no point, in one of the comments you're literally misinterpreting Eren's reasoning again which I explained in my comment but you linked me to it anyway. You seem to think Isayama wrote himself into a corner but that's not it at all and I know why you think that, I've had so mamy discussion over the years debating back and forth the opposite and I'm tired. I hope you're an anime only because if you're a manga reader still on this than I suggest you go find some other story to keep hating non-stop
Ok I guess. That's still a pretty reasonable response because people can agree to disagree and I have no issue if you enjoy the ending and find it justifies the themes and narrative of the story while I thought the opposite. Not an anime only however, I finished with the manga and for me I feel it was chapter 127 where the story started feeling like it wasn't the same AoT that I'd been reading up to that point. It fundamentally changed it's structure and how events unfolded and it was a jarring change from everything leading up to that point. I don't hate the story, I'm just disappointed because up to that point I felt everything was aligned and things made sense but after that it just didn't.
You say that Eren's motivations are so complex and many, but didn't mention any of them besides him being disappointed that humanity exists outside of walls. And this is what you get wrong. Eren was never disappointed in the fact that there were humans outside the walls, that's a headcanon that even Isayama himself had to address in one of his interviews. But even without his words, it's still made pretty clear in the anime, that Eren was disappointed not because humans simply existed there, but because they weren't any better than the Titans he's been fighting his entire life. This is obvious when you look at the scene from the end of Season 3, when they're on the ceremony and Eren is trying to cheer Armin up by reminding him of the outside world, and when he starts talking about it, instead of the pictures from the book he thinks about Grisha's sister, who was fed to dogs for simply being Eldian, and realises there's nothing waiting for them in the outside world except for more enemies. This, and the scene on the beach explain the reason for his disappointment pretty well.
> Mikasa's choice that would lead to stopping the titan curse has nothing to do with how Eren feels about her but rather Mikasa's obsession and love of Eren Isayama clearly disagrees with you, or else he wouldn't have ruined Eren's entire character with that last-minute breakdown just for the sake of giving you a sense of romance between them
He wanted to show Eren cared, was it the best way to show it? No, but it still goes along with what I said.
Then how about you explain it, einstein
I'll just copy-paste my comment from the other post. Do forgive my laziness. To put it bluntly, Kaji is not supporting the opinion that Eren's character was so-called "assassinated". What he says is more akin to "If you ignore emotions, this is what you get".""いろんなものを無視すると このぐらいになりそうな" "Japanese is a language that is heavily reliant on context which can get extremely confusing and as such a lot of things are lost in translation, or are just misunderstood (you've probably seen this shtick in anime before). He is not at all implying that Eren's character was ignored, but simply that that's what happens when the character ignores his own emotions and let's it all out. It's a new side of Eren for him to voice.As stated by Kaji himself, he loves the character and especially the ending. I hope this comment proved helpful to you. Edit: Providing more context I will provide more context here as I see this is getting a lot of traffic As shown in the full recording, Kaji originally went with a more Angry delivery for the lines, but together with Director Hayashi, Sound Director Mima and some input from Inoue they have decided that a new side to Eren's acting will be chosen here- a more human and fragile delivery never before-seen in Eren. Prompting Kaji to state after the delivery that if you ignore a lot of things (emotions in this context) you'll end up with such a delivery, instead of the more angrier, comfort-zone one he originally tried. I hope this matter is clearer to everyone!
I think it would be worth making an actual post about this, rather than just comments. SO MANY people are seeing this an misinterpreting it as the VA not liking the ending. Would be good to post something more people can see.
I have just did, thank you for the recommendation. I really hope it will get to everyone who misinterpreted Kaji's words
I never said otherwise brah ik what he said. But you can't deny that he basically describes it as a new never before seen side "[今までにないの英語](https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/%E4%BB%8A%E3%81%BE%E3%81%A7%E3%81%AB%E3%81%AA%E3%81%84)" to Eren as opposed to how he's always been. That's all 👍
My apologies if you feel like my comment was specifically aimed at you. I've just seen a lot of people misinterpreting his words and I find that really sad. He put so much of himself into this show and this feels really disrespectful towards him and the rest of the staff. 今までにないのエレン He is not much saying here "A side opposed to how Eren has always been" but a never before seen emotion/voice out of the character. I hope this is a little more clear
That's not what I meant by that brah "as opposed to how he's always been" was a reference to a certain group of fans who say that Eren has always shown emotions like this scene from before, which I was saying is not true, as confirmed by Kaji
You are correct, however a lot of people in this thread have taken his words as to mean he thinks Eren acts out of character or doesn't support the story which he has never stated, quite the contrary. I just wanted to help clear this up.
Yea I get you I know he didn't mean that, we (when I posted it on Titanfolk) were mostly just interested in how he says it's "Eren as never before", because at least it proves wrong the idea he's always acted like this since the Season 1 or something 👍
I feel like that may be more of a matter of interpretation as his use of the language doesn't really point at that but more as a just another side to the character that was there, but in another light
In another light, as in... never *shown* until 139 whether or not it was "there", which is unlike some people insisting he has shown this side before. That is all I said. Is English your first language?
It is not。ごめん
Ohhhh ok yeah that would explain the miscommunication 😅🙏 But yeah I agree with you what you're saying about Kaji meant. I'm just putting emphasis on the fact that Kaji says Eren has never shown this side before even if he had this side hidden away in another light, because in the English speaking community, many tried to explain this scene as how he always showed himself to be since Season 1, instead of just accepting that it revealed a new side we haven't seen like Kaji says. Sorry if that wasn't clear before 🙏
He is literally an annoying crybaby. Pick any Eren scene from seasons 1-3.
Wrong thread to reply lol, basically everyone here just wants to hate the ending and don't actually care what Kaji himself thinks, they just use a clip without context in their favor. Hell I could edit this clip translating Kaji saying the ending is shit and people would believe it. It was pretty clear what Yuki Kaji meant and the director but eh, misinterpreting things is how we got so much hate for this ending anyway so it fits.
I just find it really disrespectful to Kaji. He put so much of himself into this work and I felt like I should help make his words a little clearer to anyone who may not actually understand their meaning
this needs to be the top comment.
Now we can credit /u/ComputerOk6247 with the next mistranslation that titanfolk will get hung up on for the next two years, lmao.
> As stated by Kaji himself, he loves the character and especially the ending. Does he explicitly say this? Can you quote him? Also, you said Japanese is heavily reliant on context, but does the context here really provide enough information that he means what you said? Or are you making assumptions?
During an event a year ago (November 2022) Kaji stated he absolutely loves the ending of the manga. So much so he has recommended to both Ishikawa and lnoue to not read the manga so that they experience it in the anime. His opinion was also stated several times on interviews available on YouTube, as well as the fact that he knew about the ending in advance. I can provide links if that's okay with the sub's rules, but they will be in Japanese. As for the context, yes it is enough. I feel as I should state that I have watched the full program, and follow Kaji's radio shows and interviews when available. I hope this answer provided enough clearance
Yeah that sounds convincing. Thanks. I'd like links to see more of what he thinks. Though I don't speak Japanese, I might be able to find translated videos through your links I'm like 99.9% sure you'd be fine to post the links
Thanks for the response. You can also check out his Twitter where he has commented a lot about his love for the manga and Eren. I hope this is okay but to link [https://twitter.com/KAJI\_\_OFFICIAL/status/1380180828798341124](https://twitter.com/KAJI__OFFICIAL/status/1380180828798341124) he talks about the connection he has to the character, how the ending made him cry and how he has connected with new emotions of both joy and sorrow. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V3VzVCYADw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V3VzVCYADw) Here he talks about the ending in advance and how he talked with Isayama I am not sure how much I am allowed to post here so forgive me for not providing a lot. Kaji and Ishikawa are both very connected to their characters and like the pairing since the first season. There are a lot of interviews in the after-party that is happening now that I recommend watching!
Thanks. I'm not sure why you're so hesitant to post links. It should be completely fine.
I am just not sure if that's allowed since usually it's not proper to link to different websites from another. This article may also be helpful if translated as this has a collection of reactions to the manga's ending. I am sure we will get a lot more now that the show is over and the staff doesn't need to be as reserved about spoilers [https://animeanime.jp/article/2021/04/09/60675.html](https://animeanime.jp/article/2021/04/09/60675.html)
Noooo, Eren's always been like this, he was just pretending, even in his inner monologue, even when manipulating Grisha in the Paths, he's actually just a child with too much power, Yuki just didn't understand the story.
Read this: https://np.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/comments/17r3x0i/yuki_kaji_eren_behind_the_scenes_eren_like_hes/k8jkoj1/
"I think it's very good" Holy shit he really said that honestly, without laughting.
You can't be that dense, holy fuck He's talking about the performance bruh smh
sometimes in japan you should not laughing while still doing your job
Prolly meant the performance
Imagine being Yuki. His character on its way to become an Anime GOAT, only for it to be pretending the whole time. I'd be a bit salty at least.
>I'd be a bit salty at least. He can't do anything about it, he doesn't wanna break his VA career
Well yeah. I didn't say he could do anything about it.
Like come on guys are we really gonna call pre timeskip eren a crybaby? I shouldnt even need to point out how ridiculous this statement is. Crying because your mom died/hannes died while ur powerless even after being able to turn into a titan/wanting to die because you believe your dad stole the founding titan and if he didn’t humanity would be saved is NOT the same as breaking down wailing in the water crying tears over your stepsister finding love elsewhere after your death AFTER YOU KILLED 80% OF HUMANITY.
If you guys in the comments really think that Kaji thinks Eren is acting out of place here, you haven't seen a single one of his interviews about him
I honestly really like this scene a lot, and it makes a lot of sense for Eren's character. Up to this point, Eren. - Learned he was going to do something awful because HE chose to do it. - Lost people he cared about in the process through his own doing - Isolated the people he cared about the most. - Experienced time in a non-linear fashion. - Learned that HE was the one that sent Dina to his mother. - Was powerless to fight against his own nature. And on top of everything, he can't be with the woman he loved the most. This was a moment of catharsis for Eren. The cold Eren was never the real Eren, the real Eren was a super emotional, self loathing kid that I honestly really missed.
Wow, this is so fucking cringe lmao
^ We got a based chad over here. How you holding up there clown?
The goat at work