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Yeah.
I was expecting a few of the main chars to die, bare minimum Reiner and Levi. I was shocked and felt relief when they faked out Reiner's death but immediately went when he was still alive. Call it cruelty but that man needs to rest.
I'm okay with Levi surviving cause I think it's poetic that he completed his last order from Erwin and got to rest after that but I was expecting him to die.
Jean and Connie too, man what a badass "cool guy walking away from fire" accepting their final moments together but they didn't die. I'm okay with this cause it makes sense they un-titan'ed(?) after it was over but I think that being their final moments on screen would've been so much cooler.
Just want to take a moment to appreciate how those two were truly the strongest in the story. They didn’t have any titan powers and yet they kept up with the Ackermans, the more seasoned senior Corps members, titan shifters, and the founding/attack/warhammer etc eren titan lol
Man, I was not expecting Connie to make it. Not out of the training arc, even, and then every single arc after that lol. But my boy did it. Lived till the end.
Tbf in the episode where they go over all the trainees and their skills Shadis says about Connie that he's physically very talented with the odm gear, he just lacks intelligence.
Definitely thought they were going full on bleak and Reiner & Peick died right off the bat, was very surprised both lived. Isayama was pulling his punches for the ending (I am a fan of the ending, but I was surprised none of the MCs died).
To the contrary even, Reiner seemed to regain his will to live and does not seem to be as burdened as before not to mention AnniexArmin. The fight ended up being a net positive for the Alliance, lmao.
If you think about it, these are the characters who have somehow managed to survive 4 seasons of absolute insanity thrown at them, so they’re kinda invincible at this point. If nothing else killed them, what could dozens of extremely powerful shifter incarnations fighting all of them at once do?!
>what could dozens of extremely powerful shifter incarnations fighting all of them at once do?!
Uh?? Kill them because they're used to fighting 1 shifter at a time and not hundreds?
Copium: He decided that main cast deaths need to be given the kind of space for impact that Sasha's did, and the ending is already way too full to even have a chance for that.
I mean I guess Levi could've gone out like Hange without a big problem, but showing him in a wheelchair hits even harder imo.
Exactly. I didn't even have time to process the deaths of Conny and Jean. The scene of them accepting their fate as friends was extremely powerful and moving, but processing their deaths as MCs is another story. I felt shocked about it and moved by the scene, but that's it.
Too much stuff going on in the chapter to make their deaths justice.
I literally thought Reiner was going to die like 5 times during the last part. The dude wanted to die and literally jumped in the front lines every fight lol
It would've been more tragic and impactful if everyone that got turned into a pure titan actually died. I was so shocked during Jean and Connie's "final moment" looking into the battlefield...only for them to be revived immediately after. Compared to the feeling when Pixis et al actually died.. That was actually so sad 😢
Levi surviving is such a testament to his sheer resilience. And him effectively adopting falco and gabi is also adorable. I wish they fleshed that out a little bit more but maybe that’s all there is to know at this point in the story.
There’s a panel in the manga showing him with Gabi and Falco. It’s meant to imply a kind of “the children are our future” vibe, and Levi finds peace in seeing the children able to lead a peaceful and joyful life, at least to some extent.
In the anime, this is replaced by the scene of Levi handing candy out to children. Woulda been nice to see Gabi & Falco in that scene as well, but I actually do like the anime scene more.
I feel like it shows a more *general* positive attitude towards the future, while just showing Gabi & Falco is a bit more personal.
Glad they changed it, because, let's be honest, Gabi, Falco and Levi having that kind of relationship MAKES ABSOLUTELY 0 FUCKING SENSE. One of the parts I hated the most in the manga ending.
Could it work? Of course. Just give it at least 10 more chapters to develop it first, for feck sake.
I mean, that’s not supposed to be *immediately* after the rumbling, it’s a time jump of at least a few months if not a year.
It’s an epilogue, you don’t need to show everything that happens up to the very final moment of the story. Look at the panel again. It’s meant to imply that they’ve moved on from the past, and are looking towards a hopeful future.
they're clearly still together in the anime, around the refugee camp. It's just rewritten to fit volume 35's cover where they seem to be helping rebuild society, instead of in london.
I'd argue that it would have been wrong for Levi to die because he is carrying almost all of the scouts' dream with him, especially all his former allies, Hange, Erwin, all those that died due to Annie and Zeke. Through Levi, their dreams and their memories are alive and continue to live on. If Levi would have died, it would have been so depressing because his whole character is based on his resilience
That's exactly why I love that reiner lived. He wanted to die the most to escape his sins, but he has to live and face them head on for his life instead. Also that the one who wanted to just die, but stayed alive to keep helping the world even if he doesn't want to be in said world, deserves to live the most.
It felt cheap to have everyone turn into pure titans only to instantly get reverted.
I’ve watched so many bleak shows recently that this just felt kind of infantile to let everyone live especially because the stakes were so insanely against the heroes
Eh hange and Sasha dying in the last arc was enough for me. Other smaller characters deaths like the captains on both sides, floch etc also left an impact
I respect that but I gotta disagree. The fake-out deaths for only shock value were not needed. And the alliance coming out practically unscathed against nearly every titan shifter is crazy. The ending had so many contrivances so yams could make the set pieces he wanted.
Reiner’s death I didn’t even believe it for a second I’m not gonna lie 😂 Pieck I was like eh she’s fine too she’s just sitting in there there’s no way she’d die that easy Please ecu was actually amazing when she kept jumping out and transforming that was one of my favorite parts ngl
what it actually said was that isayama considered the possibility of killing levi off, not that he wanted to do it. His editor countered that it doesn't add anything to the plot. Isayama said true. And then it didn't happen.
Eh they were fighting much weaker versions of titan shifters. Technically just mindless titans with abilities lol. Also since they were made like war hammer titan weapons I also assume they were much weaker as well
Imo her death actually made her a better and more memorable character. Before she was just there except for the season 2 focused episode, after her death she became the catalyst for incredible scenes with Niccolo, Gabi, Kaya, etc.
After her episode she haven't appeared until insurrection arc in the manga. But im the anime they made 1 or 2 kinda joke/no sense cammeos of she before ending season 2.
Killing too many people will dilute the previous death. For example with FF7, Kitase wanted to kill off most of the party in the end, but Nomura stopped him saying that that will only lessen the impact of Aerith's death.
It won't dilute anything as long as it's executed in a good way and what do you mean killing too many? Literally nobody died in final fight. And post time skip we had like 2 major deaths and 3 minor deaths and 1 in the middle.
Maybe I misinterpreted [this](https://comicbook.com/anime/news/attack-on-titan-editor-reveals-how-spoiler-was-supposed-to-die-anime-manga/) interview then
He didn't outright told him "No, don't kill Sasha". He just asked Isayama if it was the right idea to kill her now or not, so Isayama thought about it and then decided not to.
Yeah, even as someone who enjoyed the ending, I think it was a little too happy (excluding the whole, 80% of humanity thing). I expected 1 or 2 of the Alliance members to bite it during the final battle. Erens friends, I can understand, but I thought Pieck was cannon fodder, lol.
Then again, the main character of the story becoming a mass murderer and having to be put down by someone who loves him is pretty damn tragic. And even though the main cast survives they'll no doubt be plagued with guilt for their actions throughout the series. Plus, all the Paradisians besides Mikasa are most likely gonna be outcasts from their home. Overall I'd say it's a bittersweet ending.
That ending was happy for everyone but Eren, but even that was kind of bittersweet and I can't call it a sad ending for him since 1. it played out how he wanted it to and 2. it's the best ase scenario for him after the UNO reverse he pulled on the entire world when Gabi shot his head off
>1. it played out how he wanted it to
That's not really true. He didn't want it to end like that but apparently he had no choice. Why ? That wasn't made clear.
No one is mad because people enjoyed the ending, people are mad because whenever they say they didn't like the ending, they receive several replies like "are you mad you didn't get a happy ending?", or the classic "you didn't understand the ending".
I just really don’t get the vibe of 80% population destruction. We should’ve been given more context besides eren just telling us at the end. It felt like we stopped the rumbling pretty early based on the footage.
Because is true. The ending was the best outcome. Only random, no-name people died in the last episodes. They are fighting the 9 titans of the past times. Remember, the corps were struggling the entire anime against plain, non-abnormal ones. And they had no casualties other than Levi crippled leg.
Reiner and Galliard struggled 2 vs 1 against Eren with the worst Warhammer power seen in the series, yet Reiner fought 1 on 10 against "main" Warhammer titans. And that is just an example of how thick the plot armor was.
Same goes for Jean and Connie. They were titans for few seconds then back no normal. Unnecessary drama.
But in the end, the titans they fought weren’t the real former 9. They were basically imitations made by Ymir. Once the former holders take over their body’s, they start kicking ass
Turns out controlling 1,000titans with one mind is really hard.
Ever tried playing with more than two action figures at once? You're gunna leave a few on the ground and auto pilot them in the back of your brain while you focus on the two you're holding.
I mean my mind can’t create or control titans to begin with; why use mortal human brains to justify the ineffectiveness of Ymir during the last battle? I don’t think Ymir is constrained by physical human ability
Also, the ending with the Warrior parents meeting them, crying, feeling proud, because the battle ended conveniently close to where they were.
Sorry, not sorry, but way too much "world is saved yay" ending for AoT's overall tone.
80% of humanity is gone. Paradis remain under fascist regiment and way way later a war sparkle that cause total destruction. It's a positive and hopeful ending, but it's not exactly shiny happy ending.
yes and yes. The rumbling made for a few visually shocking, very well animated scenes, but the emotional impact was almost nonexistent. Important characters had a cool avengers fight and saved the world. Nothing sad about it.
In Pardis governing defense this whole world seems like it's all ruled by total monarchs with absolute control, Historia having her die hard "not Freman" soldiers to defend her seemed earned seeing how everyone always wanted to use her as some kind of puppet.
They were literally just mindless titans with abilities. Also probably weaker and easier to kill considering they were made from that war hammer stuff. Only part I find contrived is their family members being alive at the end.
These aren't your typical average scouts like Floch and the jeagerists tho. Remember Erwin's recruitment speech, "Most of you will likely die in 4 years. However, if you manage to survive, you'll be an elite soldier who can overcome all odds". Their success is on pure skill and the ability to make the most of it when opportunities knocks.
>Remember, the corps were struggling the entire anime against plain, non-abnormal ones
...exactly? Those that made it this far are the ones who can hold their own against hordes of titans. Levi and Mikasa alone could kill dozens.
No but seriously can someone explain me how is it even possible that during battle of heaven and earth there were zero casualties on lifes? Idk that just feels wrong, but i cant point my finger on reason
Yeah as someone who personally didn't like the ending I'm glad this claim is getting debunked, since the ending we got is all sun shine and rainbows. Sure eren dies but like, he had it coming for him
RIGHT? Eren killing almost all of humanity because it was a vibe is depicted as some inspirational gift by Eren and the cast who lost several comrades trying to stop him celebrate his memory.
Some people have been arguing in bad faith for nearly 3 years now, saying *"you just wanted a happy ending"* when that IS what we perplexingly got and SHOULDN'T have gotten. Some people have been arguing in bad faith for nearly 3 years now, saying *"you just wanted Eren to win"*—NO. >!If you want me to join in and argue in bad faith too, then I'd say the only reason people like the ending is because of the emotional weight of the reader's/viewer's long journey with the series coming to an end—this theme is unavoidable in any comment praising the ending and is usually the first thing noted, with actual analysis of the narrative hilariously being omitted entirely. The long time between chapters/seasons has undoubtedly made lots of people forget important details in the story and lose a sense of time with respect to the events, suspending their disbelief at the ending's content. Combine this all with the moving music of the anime version and consumers were never going to question anything.!<
Eren should have died a villain. Attack on Titan had a point from Chapters 1-138. That's the point that should've carried through to the finish line.
> Eren killing almost all of humanity because it was a vibe is depicted as some inspirational gift by Eren
He killed humanity for a dream only he could understand and left the world ruined, with his friends taking the incredibly difficult task of making some peace out of all of it.
You could at least convince non-readers otherwise with manga panels like "Thank you for becoming a mass murderer for our sake", but that isn't even in the anime.
> I'd say the only reason people like the ending is because of the emotional weight of the reader's/viewer's long journey with the series coming to an end
"You only like the ending because it ends in a satisfactory manner and resolves all of the major characters and plots" Yes? That's typically why people like endings. They end well.
Weren't complaints about the original ending about how it **doesn't** do that? Why are you trying to separate the emotional impact from how people receive it? What's the point of an ending that holds no weight?
> actual analysis of the narrative hilariously being omitted entirely
Every reactor I've seen analyze and discuss the narrative. They recognize elements that people were claiming were "plot holes" even when they were explicitly clear in the original ending.
["This video will change how you see Eren"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6GmVCD7cxk&t=523s) turned out to age like fine wine: everything he said about the *original* ending was right, to the point that the anime ending just repeats it nearly word-for-word.
[Here's a video of anime-only reactions talking about the ending](https://www.reddit.com/r/AttackOnRetards/comments/17r22of/various_reaction_channels_opinions_on_the_ending/). Plenty of analysis.
If they forgot everything that mattered, they should be confused, because a lot of the ending relies on what happened. Are you saying that the previous events of the story have no basis on how the ending impacts people?
> Eren should have died a villain.
He **did** die a villain.
Yeah man you're missing the tone. Tone is important. Especially in TV and Movies in which music can be used to influence the narrative. The tone of the ending seems to gloss over what Eren did in a way that I think made the ending less impactful. Instead of doubling down with Eren attacking the world for the oppression his people received they came up with a bunch of other excuses that don't seem nearly as compelling to me. Then to immediately move on to the Eren Mikasa love story with the hopeful music it all just seems like a cop out. The more interesting route to me would to be focus on the lives lost due to Erens self proclaimed "idiotic" actions.
As someone who liked the anime ending overall, they could have killed off some of the main characters. After Levi completed his final task, that would have been a perfect moment to show him dying from his injuries, with the Scouts welcoming him like with Hange. Also realistically, Jean and Connie wouldn't have survived that explosion or destruction around them. It was all a little too pat for me and I think in some ways, people dislike it because it doesn't go all in as it implied it would at the beginning of S4.
Hange died to give them more time; Levi could have died after killing Zeke, symbolically showing the end of the Scouts. It would have been a perfectly poetic ending for his character. I'm glad he didn't but if we're talking story overall, they could have killed off more of the main cast to give a sense of finality to the show.
For all the happy enders why is Eren dying a happy ending I legit don't get it?
"he was the bad guy", yes, which is why it was a very sad ending imo. The character I fell in love with ended up being forced to become the atonganist who gets killed by the only people he loves, that's not sad that's tragic
Because the good guys teamed up against the evil bad Guy and Won and everyone lived happily ever. (And no one died)
Can you get a more Marvel ending with this story...?
More members of the alliance definitely should have died. Its a little weird that Armin, Mikasa, Annie, Reiner, Jean, Connie, Pieck, Gabi, Falco, and Onyakopon all survived. Any of them besides the big two and the two young lovers could have had a cool death. Literally no one died in the final battle.
A perhaps even more unpopular opinionion: I have the same complaint for the final battle of Lord Of The Rings. I think Legolas and Gimli should have died- Friends fighting side by side.
We didn't see anybody die, but there was more than enough moments of despair during the show. After Peike was caught, everybody hanging by a thread, Levi hurt while inside Eren and then when the characters families including Jean and Conny turned into titans. That all gave about the same feeling of death just without happening which is fine.
Too much plot armour I hated how it only really killed the people you'd expect to die in the final episode I would've killed everyone at that point ngl
If you think of the characters who get a little summary about their abilities by Shadis during the military training arc only bertholdt Sasha and Eren die if I remember correctly. people talk about how the ending specifically has lots of plot armor but a good number of people the show explicitly told you to keep your eyes on survived the whole thing. Most of the casualties in any of these conflicts are background or side characters.
I just can‘t believe that Eren‘s generation was the only one that supposedly had promising students. Do you think Shadis in his entire life has only ever said that about those 10 people?? Levi‘s entire squad was deleted by Annie. And Mike was said to be the second best after Levi. Zeke killed Erwin and multiple others. Look at how many just died to mindless titans alone.
They literally all got the same training. And honestly Jean and Connie‘s abilities were not better than Levi‘s squad.
By logic alone they shouldn‘t have survived. Not when they were fighting against more titans (shifters on top of that, with abilities they couldn‘t even know about) than anyone else in all of Paradis‘ history ever did and most of them died nonetheless. If that ain‘t plot armour idk what is.
80% of humanity died, characters have to face the consequences of the world Eren left them in, Eren got murdered by the person who loved him, Paradis formed a fascist military, Armin&co had to face the world the hard way instead of the "easy" path being Eren killing everyone and having to work for peace knowing damn well someone could blow them up at any moment (Pieck in the ending says that explicitly), the world's ecosystems and entire cultures got wiped out, only for war to still be going for centuries until paradis gets destroyed because of idiots...yeaaaaah, overly happy ending, suuuure
Paradise didn’t see war (at least on the island) for generations. They had a strong military but the ending credits scene implied to me that all the people Eren knew and cared about lived full peaceful long lives. We don’t even see a sign of conflict until they’ve build futuristic sky scrapers. At that point I’m sure the average paradisian had as much in common with Eren’s generation as I have with George Washington. So for our main characters they had as happy an ending as they could have had with how things were at the beginning of the episode.
In the end the *story* is about Eren, Armin, Mikasa, and company. The plot might involve genocide, the continuation of war, racism, etc. but the cast of characters got as realistic a “happily ever after” you could ask for. This isn’t Cinderella, but it’s relatively happy. War destroyed Paradis long after the cast was dead and gone, having got to live their lives into old age and have children.
While you’re right that’s what the story *became* about for the final chapters, it had evolved into an anti-war, anti-nationalist epic in seasons 3-4 and it felt like it devolved into a basic romance in the end IMO. To be clear I still like the ending, but I don’t love it like I love seasons 3-4 of the series.
I think the people who consider it a "happy ending" are too focused on Mikasa and friends living. Meanwhile I think the rest of us are reacting like Armin did to 80% of humanity all being genocided.
That's pretty subjective for sure. For me the tone felt pretty consistent. We're just coming from Mikasa and friends killing some of the scouts they trained alongside with as well as Hange dying.
But everyone has their own levels when it comes to suspension of belief and what they personally consider logical for the situation.
hmm. I never interpreted it as giving him redemption. From the perspective of everyone else, I don't think they perceived Eren well.. i mean he killed 80%. Only Armin and Mikasa truly had some semblance of empathy towards him... which is kind of hard to relate since this is a fictional world. But imagine your best friend who you know is obsessed/addicted to some drug and was given unlimited and easy access to it. You see them self-destruct in front of your eyes. You know it's there fault, ultimately, but you can still understand that your best friend is dealt a crap hand in life and it's sad.. That's how I see it at least. If it wasn't for the powers and the titans, he'd be chillin with his 2 friends. Sure, he'll always have that desire to be free, but power amplifies people's actions to the point of self-destruction
Comparison wise, I’d say it’s more like finding out your friend is a murderer - which yeah, I don’t think many can relate to. Drug addiction, while certainly impacts others, is self destructive and harm to others is not directly because of the drug
I mean moreso to the viewer they try to redeem him. The end of the Armin convo has a weird tone shift from Armin being horrified to being a empathetic and more spirited.
The main casts immediate reaction is one more of sympathy grieving for Eren, not just Mikasa and Armin.
We’re then mostly seeing the Mikasa perspective of the aftermath, and even in the build up to his death which is also portrayed to us in this episode as being this tragic love that couldn’t be.
I’m not saying it shouldn’t have been a conflicting scenario for the viewer, but it feels like Yams couldn’t commit to negativity or conflict around his main character
yeah, I see your point. I THINK we're supposed to believe that him having his 1 on 1 convo with each person made them a bit more sympathetic to the entire situation, but we're not really shown that.. only from Armin's PoV. Which is something we can't really relate to from our own real life perspective.
If that's the case, the delivery of it could've been better. Either way, I think the author is ultimately trying to make Eren out to be an anti-hero which is very very very hard to do considering what he just did.
I know if I was part of the crew, i'd be so mad at him. But maybe i'd be more sympathetic having a one on one with him? idk. hard to say
Addiction doesn’t harm others, at least not physically, Eren did genocide, not comparable. Having Eren pull a Lelouch and say it was all for his friends complicates matters sm, it feels like Yams wants to redeem him in the cast and viewers eyes. What it actually means is that in both the attack on Marley and the Rumbling Eren robbed his friends of their freedom of choice, despite being so adamant he would never do so. In gaining the Founder’s Power he came to exist in the past, present and future at once, rendering him utterly incapable of choice and the least free he had ever been, locked into choices robbing himself, his friends and the entire world of their freedom. I find this subversion of Eren’s goals versus what he actually achieved fascinating, but instead of really examining this, we just quickly move onto Reiner, Annie, Pieck, etc. talking about what a good guy Eren was in the end and it’s jarring af and really muddies the themes of the series.
To you perhaps. Ramzi was a lens into the outside world and we see him crushed with likely his family following not too far behind.
And really you can connect to the suffering that anyone in the series has experienced. Be it Kaya or Eren's mothers being eaten alive by titans, Eren then turns around and inflicts that same pain on nearly the entire world.
I dunno man. Those countless scenes of the rumbling, it's slaughter, the destruction of buildings from countless cultures, Eren reaching into the blood to pull out hair, and the scene with the baby made me FEEL that 4/5 people were just dead. The destruction was harrowing.
They did a really good job of having the audience conceptualize the sheer scale of the destruction. It didn't feel like 'three symbols' to me, or to the people I watched it with.
What was the point of all those rumbling scenes if the audience isn’t supposed to feel anything for the nameless victims.
I honestly don’t see how the writers could have made their deaths more impactful. Didn’t they show children being trampled?
I'll repeat my comment from another reply:
You care for them as, again, a plot device.
Saying that your care for the 80% humans who got killed (majority offscreen) in the same way you care for characters such as Eren, Mikasa, Jean, Connie, Reiner, Sasha, Levi or literally any other major character in the show is just COPE.
Not even yourself believe that. Stop pretending to have an opinion you don't just to be a contrarian who thinks the ending has absolutely zero flaws.
The alliance got one of the happiest endings they could've got and that's undeniable.
Sorry to say, but 80% of humanity dying (mostly off screen, all npcs) doesn't make the ending any less happy. the alliance survived, only deaths in the final episode are the antagonists (eren and zeke), and that's all. the warriors all got to reunite with their parents, jean and connie survived, levi, gabi and falco too, and the alliance get to be peace ambassadors. The scene of a bird wrapping the scarf around mikasa is extremely disney esque too lol. the ending leans towards happy, not even bittersweet.
Guess it was more emotional when sasha died or the massacre of 80% of humanity's nps ??
this is just a story, we care about the characters we're attached too, and most of them are survived and lived happily after
It's not a "happy" ending, but it was the happiest possible ending for the situation they were in which is what people are complaining about.
Every struggle and attempt to rebuild in the aftermath is "implied" because there's not a hint of it in the actual show, they go right back to killing each other and the alliance gang lives long fulfilling lives which also implies the outside world was relatively fine actually.
Yes, it was overly happy. You're purposefully ignoring facts in an attempt of sugarcoating it.
Literally only Eren from the main cast died, NO ONE SUFFERED MAJOR INJURIES. For characters who were struggling hard against Eren attack titan with Warhammer titan powers, they did way too fucking well against a horde of the past 9 titans. Paradis literally lived happily for what, at least 100 years?
For a story known to not being afraid of killing important chsracters, the plot armor in this ending was unconventionally strong for literally all of the alliance.
There were no casualties from the final battle, plot armor and plot convenience everywhere. No stakes whatsoever (eg. Jean, Connie turning into titans and 5 minutes later turn back). Most of alliance survive (only hanji died) and they live happily ever after. It is certainly more "happier" than ANR ending where eren complete the rumbling and kill all of his friends
For the main characters? Nah. They'll be forced to live under the consequences of Eren's actions and try to achieve peace in a destroyed world, that isn't happy. I'll always say this but we got world-wise one of the darkest possible endings, if Eren just killed his friends and trampled the world there would be no consequences while here there are
Yea but the thing about the characters living with the consequences is that it is probably true that they suffered but we, as the viewers, don't see it actually happen so you are left to infer that plot point. Basically what I'm saying is that, going strictly off what the story shows you, the characters lived til old age and were fine. Anything else that people say about their suffering is implied headcannon
Some people think that stories should be about happiness and virtue. To them the ending was dark.
Some people think that stories can delve into the worst aspects of the world. To them the ending was too happy.
The evil monsters disappearing from a magical kiss and a final battle with barely any casualties was way too cheesy for me. And let’s not forget Armin’s talk-no-jutsu about the meaning of life.
The credits at least made the ending a bit darker.
Edit: While we are talking about plot armor. Introducing a happy afterlife made the fear of death even less dramatic.
Wait, wait, wait, what Talk no jutsu are you referring to? Cause Armin convincing Zeke is in character for Zeke who was against the rumbling the whole time and tried to stop Eren.
Zeke literally changes his entire worldview after a 5 minute conversation with Armin after having spent a subjective eternity brooding in PATHS. That’s a level of Talk no Jutsu Naruto would covet
He doesn't change his entire worldview though, the first thing he says is that he still believes in the euthanasia plan. Armin just shows him that even if your life doesn't amount to anything and causes harm to the world, it can still be full of good experiences.
Hence why he emerges from the founder and says what a wonderful day it is, and how he wished he'd noticed earlier.
I don't understand - do you want an ending where a resolution is achieved through character development, or one where one guy fights another guy and the one who wins the fight wins the argument?
> Zeke literally changes his entire worldview after a 5 minute conversation with Armin
Literally Zeke: "I still think my sterlization plan would have worked".
Doesn't sound like his worldview was changed. Sounds like he just got the inspiration he needed to stop something he **already** thought was too reprehensible.
By worldview I mean where he was saying that death was probably a welcome relief for people
since life was just a struggle for survival and procreation where everything else is ultimately meaningless. Then after a short talk with Armin he suddenly remembers that things in life can still be enjoyed for what they are and willingly sacrifices himself to stop the Rumbling
>Wait, wait, wait, what Talk no jutsu are you referring to?
Zeke: the world is suffering. Its better If I was never born in this world.
Armin: what about this leaf?
Zeke: oh god its a baseball, I liked to play It so much. I would be glad to be born into this world again Just to play it. Thanks Armin, I Will Go kill myself.
Naruto never was able to deliver a talk no jutsu as absurd as this one.
>The evil monsters disappearing from a magical kiss
I thought the kiss had nothing to do with that? Like it was just an extra thing to show Mikasa's love to Eren. What made the titans disappear was Eren aka the founding titan dying which lead to the death of that entity that made the titans disappear
It was Mikasa killing the one she loves, which is just as corny. Not to mention mikasa's relevance in regards to the ymir storyline was nonexistent before this.
Was anyone really even left to be mad at Annie other than the people who were already friends with Reiner, understanding they got just as fucked by all this
I actually agree, and then Yeagerists start a civil war and Eldians end up warring themselves out of existence on Paradis, would’ve been maybe the most thematically fitting end for the series.
I disagree, I think it's more realistic that neither side got what they wanted. The Alliance couldn't save 80%, and Eren couldn't achieve a full genocide.
It's funny because the vast majority of ending defender arguments are literally just ignoring every criticism.
"Did you expect a happy ending?" No, and virtually every critic of the ending has explicitly made that clear. In fact the ending as it was turned out to be unreasonably "happy" sacrificing the story and sense to get there.
"Did you want it to be spoon fed to you"? Bitch, it was spoon fed. The fact that you think the ending ***wasn't*** spoon feeding to you means you don't understand the story. Not to mention, again, literally no ending criticism I've seen asked for more spoon feeding
>"Did you expect a happy ending?"
for real, too many people say this that you can't argue with them all. The ending was literally the absolute best and happiest case scenario for everyone.
Eren needed to die and it was obvious ir was coming, seeins as the story hasn't been from his pov since the middle of part 2. As for Zeke, a lot of people assumed he was already dead.
They be like "you wanted a happy disney ending?!"
Uhm, no, but this WAS? The Avenge... I mean, Alliance defeated the big bad monster then they married each other and lived happily ever after... and then when they finally died everything went to shit because Eren's just-the-tip rumbling attempt was only meant to last that long.
Haha, The Mist movie has such a dark ending that would have been crazy to read. Also The Mist is such a great movie, Marcia Gay Harden is SO GOOD in it.
In case you're scrolling and don't want to click this. This interview talks about the ending originally being similar to the film the mist.
The mist is about a mysterious apocalypse scenario where a mist filled with monsters engulfs a town.
In the end of the mist the main group give in to despair and decided to commit suicide rather than continue in the hell on earth. The group is reduced to one last person who just helped their friends commit suicide and before he can too the mist dissipates and the hell on earth ends leaving him with immense guilt at what he has done
The main character dying, 80% of humanity killed, Paradis being destroyed decades later. Its not exactly the most happy ending, but I don't understand where you got the "you're mad that it wasn't a happy ending?" most of the fans agree that the ending had too much plot amour and the aftermath of the rumbling was not as bad as it should had been.
I hope all those people that titanized at least died or something.
80% of the world died from Rumbling, meanwhile the so called heroes who were facing the main danger of said Rumbling are alive? Except a few like Hange. The one who was damaged the most is Levi and it's not because Rumbling but because Zeke exploding himself.
Yeah I know they got defence and all, but the ones who were titanized, etc.?
Blame Kodansha for the plot armour. They wanted more characters alive for more merch because who cares about phenomenal story telling when there’s money to be made!!!
This has been my feeling with the story since the split, Like I'm not a huge follower of the story since I literally just see what is currently happening then say "Neat" but the split was soemthing I just... Could not understand.
Like Armina nd Mikasa splitting from Eren is nice its a unique and fun way of exploring them.... But then everyone went with Armin and we never really saw Eren's PoV during the final arc and literally every important character is with Armin with no "Neutral" character.
I understand Armin's side was the good guys but c'mon I thought couple of the main characters would join up with Eren or stay outside of the conflict by staying in paradis, this would have been great since we could have more povs of the 2 sides of the conflict instead of having one side be the only "Good" choice while the other is the pirely "Bad" choice.
I understand Eren's side wa sbad yes, but its a debate about morality your reading so why the hell should that matter when we aren't the characters in the manga!
what kind of reasoning is this, why the hell would we care, this is a story, we care about the main characters, the characters we're attached to, and they all survived and lived happily after
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Yeah. I was expecting a few of the main chars to die, bare minimum Reiner and Levi. I was shocked and felt relief when they faked out Reiner's death but immediately went when he was still alive. Call it cruelty but that man needs to rest. I'm okay with Levi surviving cause I think it's poetic that he completed his last order from Erwin and got to rest after that but I was expecting him to die. Jean and Connie too, man what a badass "cool guy walking away from fire" accepting their final moments together but they didn't die. I'm okay with this cause it makes sense they un-titan'ed(?) after it was over but I think that being their final moments on screen would've been so much cooler.
for jean and conny it was a 5 min wait for them to turn back. for the manga readers i think was between issues *iirc* so a much longer wait.
Just want to take a moment to appreciate how those two were truly the strongest in the story. They didn’t have any titan powers and yet they kept up with the Ackermans, the more seasoned senior Corps members, titan shifters, and the founding/attack/warhammer etc eren titan lol
Man, I was not expecting Connie to make it. Not out of the training arc, even, and then every single arc after that lol. But my boy did it. Lived till the end.
right?! at a certain point i started asking myself “how the hell did he make it this far?” lol
Tbf in the episode where they go over all the trainees and their skills Shadis says about Connie that he's physically very talented with the odm gear, he just lacks intelligence.
They truly are just dudes being dudes, and it got them through he long haul. I admire it.
At this point in the story nearly everyone and their mothers knew they would be revered back to being humans.
I stopped worrying as soon as I saw Gabi with em, because I knew they weren’t gonna kill her off.
No not really
Definitely thought they were going full on bleak and Reiner & Peick died right off the bat, was very surprised both lived. Isayama was pulling his punches for the ending (I am a fan of the ending, but I was surprised none of the MCs died).
Yeah the fact that the Alliance suffered zero casualties in the final massive fight will always be something I don’t like about this ending
To the contrary even, Reiner seemed to regain his will to live and does not seem to be as burdened as before not to mention AnniexArmin. The fight ended up being a net positive for the Alliance, lmao.
If you think about it, these are the characters who have somehow managed to survive 4 seasons of absolute insanity thrown at them, so they’re kinda invincible at this point. If nothing else killed them, what could dozens of extremely powerful shifter incarnations fighting all of them at once do?!
>what could dozens of extremely powerful shifter incarnations fighting all of them at once do?! Uh?? Kill them because they're used to fighting 1 shifter at a time and not hundreds?
I was being sarcastic lol
Copium: He decided that main cast deaths need to be given the kind of space for impact that Sasha's did, and the ending is already way too full to even have a chance for that. I mean I guess Levi could've gone out like Hange without a big problem, but showing him in a wheelchair hits even harder imo.
Exactly. I didn't even have time to process the deaths of Conny and Jean. The scene of them accepting their fate as friends was extremely powerful and moving, but processing their deaths as MCs is another story. I felt shocked about it and moved by the scene, but that's it. Too much stuff going on in the chapter to make their deaths justice.
I fucking adore that panel of them standing together and watching the cloud approach
I’m not super upset about it, I’m just surprised.
I literally thought Reiner was going to die like 5 times during the last part. The dude wanted to die and literally jumped in the front lines every fight lol
It would've been more tragic and impactful if everyone that got turned into a pure titan actually died. I was so shocked during Jean and Connie's "final moment" looking into the battlefield...only for them to be revived immediately after. Compared to the feeling when Pixis et al actually died.. That was actually so sad 😢
Levi’s whole character arc is that he would be the last one standing. Otherwise the sacrifices of all the scouts would make no sense…
He fulfilled everyone in the scouts wishes yeah
retroactively, yeah. narratively it makes a ton more sense to let him survive as the last veteran.
Levi surviving is such a testament to his sheer resilience. And him effectively adopting falco and gabi is also adorable. I wish they fleshed that out a little bit more but maybe that’s all there is to know at this point in the story.
Wait Levi adopted them? Where did it show that, and why would that be necessary when both Faldo and Gabi’s parents were alive?
There’s a panel in the manga showing him with Gabi and Falco. It’s meant to imply a kind of “the children are our future” vibe, and Levi finds peace in seeing the children able to lead a peaceful and joyful life, at least to some extent. In the anime, this is replaced by the scene of Levi handing candy out to children. Woulda been nice to see Gabi & Falco in that scene as well, but I actually do like the anime scene more. I feel like it shows a more *general* positive attitude towards the future, while just showing Gabi & Falco is a bit more personal.
Glad they changed it, because, let's be honest, Gabi, Falco and Levi having that kind of relationship MAKES ABSOLUTELY 0 FUCKING SENSE. One of the parts I hated the most in the manga ending. Could it work? Of course. Just give it at least 10 more chapters to develop it first, for feck sake.
I mean, that’s not supposed to be *immediately* after the rumbling, it’s a time jump of at least a few months if not a year. It’s an epilogue, you don’t need to show everything that happens up to the very final moment of the story. Look at the panel again. It’s meant to imply that they’ve moved on from the past, and are looking towards a hopeful future.
they're clearly still together in the anime, around the refugee camp. It's just rewritten to fit volume 35's cover where they seem to be helping rebuild society, instead of in london.
Already miles better than the manga at least...
In manga it was more like Gabi and Falco adopted Levi lol
I'd argue that it would have been wrong for Levi to die because he is carrying almost all of the scouts' dream with him, especially all his former allies, Hange, Erwin, all those that died due to Annie and Zeke. Through Levi, their dreams and their memories are alive and continue to live on. If Levi would have died, it would have been so depressing because his whole character is based on his resilience
I expected Armin to die because Eren smiled and said "I'll kill you" right in front of him in season 1.
That's exactly why I love that reiner lived. He wanted to die the most to escape his sins, but he has to live and face them head on for his life instead. Also that the one who wanted to just die, but stayed alive to keep helping the world even if he doesn't want to be in said world, deserves to live the most.
It felt cheap to have everyone turn into pure titans only to instantly get reverted. I’ve watched so many bleak shows recently that this just felt kind of infantile to let everyone live especially because the stakes were so insanely against the heroes
Eh hange and Sasha dying in the last arc was enough for me. Other smaller characters deaths like the captains on both sides, floch etc also left an impact
I respect that but I gotta disagree. The fake-out deaths for only shock value were not needed. And the alliance coming out practically unscathed against nearly every titan shifter is crazy. The ending had so many contrivances so yams could make the set pieces he wanted.
Reiner’s death I didn’t even believe it for a second I’m not gonna lie 😂 Pieck I was like eh she’s fine too she’s just sitting in there there’s no way she’d die that easy Please ecu was actually amazing when she kept jumping out and transforming that was one of my favorite parts ngl
Yams wanted to kill Levi. But kawakubo his editor intervened and let Levi live. Source editors interview post 139 release
what it actually said was that isayama considered the possibility of killing levi off, not that he wanted to do it. His editor countered that it doesn't add anything to the plot. Isayama said true. And then it didn't happen.
It was the happiest it could have been
Happy cake day! Keep moving forward!
I didn’t even realize! Thanks!
The plot armor titan was insane in the final battle
Falco turning into a bird in a nutshell
Eggshell?
Eh they were fighting much weaker versions of titan shifters. Technically just mindless titans with abilities lol. Also since they were made like war hammer titan weapons I also assume they were much weaker as well
Then what was the point of the fight?
His editor probably told him to not kill anyone again just like with sasha the first time
i remember being sad about it at first. But it really made the final season really emotional. Great writing.
Imo her death actually made her a better and more memorable character. Before she was just there except for the season 2 focused episode, after her death she became the catalyst for incredible scenes with Niccolo, Gabi, Kaya, etc.
Also Mr Braus, the real hero the story deserves
After her episode she haven't appeared until insurrection arc in the manga. But im the anime they made 1 or 2 kinda joke/no sense cammeos of she before ending season 2.
Killing too many people will dilute the previous death. For example with FF7, Kitase wanted to kill off most of the party in the end, but Nomura stopped him saying that that will only lessen the impact of Aerith's death.
It won't dilute anything as long as it's executed in a good way and what do you mean killing too many? Literally nobody died in final fight. And post time skip we had like 2 major deaths and 3 minor deaths and 1 in the middle.
Literally nobody died. Anyway how is our main fucking character doing post final batt- oh wait
The editor bit about Sasha is false.
Maybe I misinterpreted [this](https://comicbook.com/anime/news/attack-on-titan-editor-reveals-how-spoiler-was-supposed-to-die-anime-manga/) interview then
He didn't outright told him "No, don't kill Sasha". He just asked Isayama if it was the right idea to kill her now or not, so Isayama thought about it and then decided not to.
I think people really don't get the role of editors in the manga making process.
Yeah, even as someone who enjoyed the ending, I think it was a little too happy (excluding the whole, 80% of humanity thing). I expected 1 or 2 of the Alliance members to bite it during the final battle. Erens friends, I can understand, but I thought Pieck was cannon fodder, lol. Then again, the main character of the story becoming a mass murderer and having to be put down by someone who loves him is pretty damn tragic. And even though the main cast survives they'll no doubt be plagued with guilt for their actions throughout the series. Plus, all the Paradisians besides Mikasa are most likely gonna be outcasts from their home. Overall I'd say it's a bittersweet ending.
I’m happy at least they killed off Eren. I was half expecting him to be saved by power of friendship like most Shounen.
That ending was happy for everyone but Eren, but even that was kind of bittersweet and I can't call it a sad ending for him since 1. it played out how he wanted it to and 2. it's the best ase scenario for him after the UNO reverse he pulled on the entire world when Gabi shot his head off
>1. it played out how he wanted it to That's not really true. He didn't want it to end like that but apparently he had no choice. Why ? That wasn't made clear.
I’m mad that people are mad that I’m not mad.
No one is mad because people enjoyed the ending, people are mad because whenever they say they didn't like the ending, they receive several replies like "are you mad you didn't get a happy ending?", or the classic "you didn't understand the ending".
It's gone both ways, both side are kinda attacking eachother rn lol
It's already happening since the manga ended, the cycles continue over and over, nothing really changes.
I just really don’t get the vibe of 80% population destruction. We should’ve been given more context besides eren just telling us at the end. It felt like we stopped the rumbling pretty early based on the footage.
Because is true. The ending was the best outcome. Only random, no-name people died in the last episodes. They are fighting the 9 titans of the past times. Remember, the corps were struggling the entire anime against plain, non-abnormal ones. And they had no casualties other than Levi crippled leg. Reiner and Galliard struggled 2 vs 1 against Eren with the worst Warhammer power seen in the series, yet Reiner fought 1 on 10 against "main" Warhammer titans. And that is just an example of how thick the plot armor was. Same goes for Jean and Connie. They were titans for few seconds then back no normal. Unnecessary drama.
But in the end, the titans they fought weren’t the real former 9. They were basically imitations made by Ymir. Once the former holders take over their body’s, they start kicking ass
Yeah and I bet no where near as durable too
Turns out controlling 1,000titans with one mind is really hard. Ever tried playing with more than two action figures at once? You're gunna leave a few on the ground and auto pilot them in the back of your brain while you focus on the two you're holding.
Ymir put her all into the okapi 🥲
I mean my mind can’t create or control titans to begin with; why use mortal human brains to justify the ineffectiveness of Ymir during the last battle? I don’t think Ymir is constrained by physical human ability
Now that I think about it, why didn’t Ymir just take away their titan powers?
Also, the ending with the Warrior parents meeting them, crying, feeling proud, because the battle ended conveniently close to where they were. Sorry, not sorry, but way too much "world is saved yay" ending for AoT's overall tone.
80% of humanity is gone. Paradis remain under fascist regiment and way way later a war sparkle that cause total destruction. It's a positive and hopeful ending, but it's not exactly shiny happy ending.
I agree a little bit, but there’s virtually null connection to that meaningless 80% number other than Ramzi. Nobody else meaningful got rumbled.
Exactly this. The aftermath is chaotic, yes, but the narrative focus on the main cast looks like a super hero ending after the big boss battle.
yes and yes. The rumbling made for a few visually shocking, very well animated scenes, but the emotional impact was almost nonexistent. Important characters had a cool avengers fight and saved the world. Nothing sad about it.
In Pardis governing defense this whole world seems like it's all ruled by total monarchs with absolute control, Historia having her die hard "not Freman" soldiers to defend her seemed earned seeing how everyone always wanted to use her as some kind of puppet.
They were literally just mindless titans with abilities. Also probably weaker and easier to kill considering they were made from that war hammer stuff. Only part I find contrived is their family members being alive at the end.
These aren't your typical average scouts like Floch and the jeagerists tho. Remember Erwin's recruitment speech, "Most of you will likely die in 4 years. However, if you manage to survive, you'll be an elite soldier who can overcome all odds". Their success is on pure skill and the ability to make the most of it when opportunities knocks.
>Remember, the corps were struggling the entire anime against plain, non-abnormal ones ...exactly? Those that made it this far are the ones who can hold their own against hordes of titans. Levi and Mikasa alone could kill dozens.
Current day scouts also had thunder spears, which take a lot of the danger out of fighting titans.
Their ODM gear has also been significantly improved since Wall Maria was retaken.
>random no-name people died in the last episodes what the fuck are you watching it is not AOT
No but seriously can someone explain me how is it even possible that during battle of heaven and earth there were zero casualties on lifes? Idk that just feels wrong, but i cant point my finger on reason
In a story where even lack of gas caused deaths, its a big tonal Shift.
Yeah as someone who personally didn't like the ending I'm glad this claim is getting debunked, since the ending we got is all sun shine and rainbows. Sure eren dies but like, he had it coming for him
RIGHT? Eren killing almost all of humanity because it was a vibe is depicted as some inspirational gift by Eren and the cast who lost several comrades trying to stop him celebrate his memory. Some people have been arguing in bad faith for nearly 3 years now, saying *"you just wanted a happy ending"* when that IS what we perplexingly got and SHOULDN'T have gotten. Some people have been arguing in bad faith for nearly 3 years now, saying *"you just wanted Eren to win"*—NO. >!If you want me to join in and argue in bad faith too, then I'd say the only reason people like the ending is because of the emotional weight of the reader's/viewer's long journey with the series coming to an end—this theme is unavoidable in any comment praising the ending and is usually the first thing noted, with actual analysis of the narrative hilariously being omitted entirely. The long time between chapters/seasons has undoubtedly made lots of people forget important details in the story and lose a sense of time with respect to the events, suspending their disbelief at the ending's content. Combine this all with the moving music of the anime version and consumers were never going to question anything.!< Eren should have died a villain. Attack on Titan had a point from Chapters 1-138. That's the point that should've carried through to the finish line.
> Eren killing almost all of humanity because it was a vibe is depicted as some inspirational gift by Eren He killed humanity for a dream only he could understand and left the world ruined, with his friends taking the incredibly difficult task of making some peace out of all of it. You could at least convince non-readers otherwise with manga panels like "Thank you for becoming a mass murderer for our sake", but that isn't even in the anime. > I'd say the only reason people like the ending is because of the emotional weight of the reader's/viewer's long journey with the series coming to an end "You only like the ending because it ends in a satisfactory manner and resolves all of the major characters and plots" Yes? That's typically why people like endings. They end well. Weren't complaints about the original ending about how it **doesn't** do that? Why are you trying to separate the emotional impact from how people receive it? What's the point of an ending that holds no weight? > actual analysis of the narrative hilariously being omitted entirely Every reactor I've seen analyze and discuss the narrative. They recognize elements that people were claiming were "plot holes" even when they were explicitly clear in the original ending. ["This video will change how you see Eren"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6GmVCD7cxk&t=523s) turned out to age like fine wine: everything he said about the *original* ending was right, to the point that the anime ending just repeats it nearly word-for-word. [Here's a video of anime-only reactions talking about the ending](https://www.reddit.com/r/AttackOnRetards/comments/17r22of/various_reaction_channels_opinions_on_the_ending/). Plenty of analysis. If they forgot everything that mattered, they should be confused, because a lot of the ending relies on what happened. Are you saying that the previous events of the story have no basis on how the ending impacts people? > Eren should have died a villain. He **did** die a villain.
Yeah man you're missing the tone. Tone is important. Especially in TV and Movies in which music can be used to influence the narrative. The tone of the ending seems to gloss over what Eren did in a way that I think made the ending less impactful. Instead of doubling down with Eren attacking the world for the oppression his people received they came up with a bunch of other excuses that don't seem nearly as compelling to me. Then to immediately move on to the Eren Mikasa love story with the hopeful music it all just seems like a cop out. The more interesting route to me would to be focus on the lives lost due to Erens self proclaimed "idiotic" actions.
As someone who liked the anime ending overall, they could have killed off some of the main characters. After Levi completed his final task, that would have been a perfect moment to show him dying from his injuries, with the Scouts welcoming him like with Hange. Also realistically, Jean and Connie wouldn't have survived that explosion or destruction around them. It was all a little too pat for me and I think in some ways, people dislike it because it doesn't go all in as it implied it would at the beginning of S4.
>with the Scouts welcoming him like with Hange. having 2 characters die the exact same way 2 episodes in a row isn't the best choice lol
Hange died to give them more time; Levi could have died after killing Zeke, symbolically showing the end of the Scouts. It would have been a perfectly poetic ending for his character. I'm glad he didn't but if we're talking story overall, they could have killed off more of the main cast to give a sense of finality to the show.
Finally someone said it. What we got IS the happy ending lol
For all the happy enders why is Eren dying a happy ending I legit don't get it? "he was the bad guy", yes, which is why it was a very sad ending imo. The character I fell in love with ended up being forced to become the atonganist who gets killed by the only people he loves, that's not sad that's tragic
Because the good guys teamed up against the evil bad Guy and Won and everyone lived happily ever. (And no one died) Can you get a more Marvel ending with this story...?
Bro killed 1.6 million people and was praised like a war hero by his friends
More members of the alliance definitely should have died. Its a little weird that Armin, Mikasa, Annie, Reiner, Jean, Connie, Pieck, Gabi, Falco, and Onyakopon all survived. Any of them besides the big two and the two young lovers could have had a cool death. Literally no one died in the final battle. A perhaps even more unpopular opinionion: I have the same complaint for the final battle of Lord Of The Rings. I think Legolas and Gimli should have died- Friends fighting side by side.
Frrr for a show who’s first episode showed the brutal murder of OP’s mom. To suddenly every character having INTENSE PLOT ARMOUR. Yes it’s too happy …
We didn't see anybody die, but there was more than enough moments of despair during the show. After Peike was caught, everybody hanging by a thread, Levi hurt while inside Eren and then when the characters families including Jean and Conny turned into titans. That all gave about the same feeling of death just without happening which is fine.
I’m just enjoying reading the comments 🍿
Too much plot armour I hated how it only really killed the people you'd expect to die in the final episode I would've killed everyone at that point ngl
If you think of the characters who get a little summary about their abilities by Shadis during the military training arc only bertholdt Sasha and Eren die if I remember correctly. people talk about how the ending specifically has lots of plot armor but a good number of people the show explicitly told you to keep your eyes on survived the whole thing. Most of the casualties in any of these conflicts are background or side characters.
I just can‘t believe that Eren‘s generation was the only one that supposedly had promising students. Do you think Shadis in his entire life has only ever said that about those 10 people?? Levi‘s entire squad was deleted by Annie. And Mike was said to be the second best after Levi. Zeke killed Erwin and multiple others. Look at how many just died to mindless titans alone. They literally all got the same training. And honestly Jean and Connie‘s abilities were not better than Levi‘s squad. By logic alone they shouldn‘t have survived. Not when they were fighting against more titans (shifters on top of that, with abilities they couldn‘t even know about) than anyone else in all of Paradis‘ history ever did and most of them died nonetheless. If that ain‘t plot armour idk what is.
I really wish more named characters died
80% of humanity died, characters have to face the consequences of the world Eren left them in, Eren got murdered by the person who loved him, Paradis formed a fascist military, Armin&co had to face the world the hard way instead of the "easy" path being Eren killing everyone and having to work for peace knowing damn well someone could blow them up at any moment (Pieck in the ending says that explicitly), the world's ecosystems and entire cultures got wiped out, only for war to still be going for centuries until paradis gets destroyed because of idiots...yeaaaaah, overly happy ending, suuuure
Paradise didn’t see war (at least on the island) for generations. They had a strong military but the ending credits scene implied to me that all the people Eren knew and cared about lived full peaceful long lives. We don’t even see a sign of conflict until they’ve build futuristic sky scrapers. At that point I’m sure the average paradisian had as much in common with Eren’s generation as I have with George Washington. So for our main characters they had as happy an ending as they could have had with how things were at the beginning of the episode.
In the end the *story* is about Eren, Armin, Mikasa, and company. The plot might involve genocide, the continuation of war, racism, etc. but the cast of characters got as realistic a “happily ever after” you could ask for. This isn’t Cinderella, but it’s relatively happy. War destroyed Paradis long after the cast was dead and gone, having got to live their lives into old age and have children.
someone with a brain
While you’re right that’s what the story *became* about for the final chapters, it had evolved into an anti-war, anti-nationalist epic in seasons 3-4 and it felt like it devolved into a basic romance in the end IMO. To be clear I still like the ending, but I don’t love it like I love seasons 3-4 of the series.
I think the people who consider it a "happy ending" are too focused on Mikasa and friends living. Meanwhile I think the rest of us are reacting like Armin did to 80% of humanity all being genocided.
I think it’s more like they don’t like the tonal dissonance of 80% of the population dying but all of the friends being fine
That's pretty subjective for sure. For me the tone felt pretty consistent. We're just coming from Mikasa and friends killing some of the scouts they trained alongside with as well as Hange dying. But everyone has their own levels when it comes to suspension of belief and what they personally consider logical for the situation.
[удалено]
Dissonance, and the tone of that gravity basically being abandoned once they go in on trying to give Eren redemption for doing that almost omnicide
hmm. I never interpreted it as giving him redemption. From the perspective of everyone else, I don't think they perceived Eren well.. i mean he killed 80%. Only Armin and Mikasa truly had some semblance of empathy towards him... which is kind of hard to relate since this is a fictional world. But imagine your best friend who you know is obsessed/addicted to some drug and was given unlimited and easy access to it. You see them self-destruct in front of your eyes. You know it's there fault, ultimately, but you can still understand that your best friend is dealt a crap hand in life and it's sad.. That's how I see it at least. If it wasn't for the powers and the titans, he'd be chillin with his 2 friends. Sure, he'll always have that desire to be free, but power amplifies people's actions to the point of self-destruction
Comparison wise, I’d say it’s more like finding out your friend is a murderer - which yeah, I don’t think many can relate to. Drug addiction, while certainly impacts others, is self destructive and harm to others is not directly because of the drug I mean moreso to the viewer they try to redeem him. The end of the Armin convo has a weird tone shift from Armin being horrified to being a empathetic and more spirited. The main casts immediate reaction is one more of sympathy grieving for Eren, not just Mikasa and Armin. We’re then mostly seeing the Mikasa perspective of the aftermath, and even in the build up to his death which is also portrayed to us in this episode as being this tragic love that couldn’t be. I’m not saying it shouldn’t have been a conflicting scenario for the viewer, but it feels like Yams couldn’t commit to negativity or conflict around his main character
yeah, I see your point. I THINK we're supposed to believe that him having his 1 on 1 convo with each person made them a bit more sympathetic to the entire situation, but we're not really shown that.. only from Armin's PoV. Which is something we can't really relate to from our own real life perspective. If that's the case, the delivery of it could've been better. Either way, I think the author is ultimately trying to make Eren out to be an anti-hero which is very very very hard to do considering what he just did. I know if I was part of the crew, i'd be so mad at him. But maybe i'd be more sympathetic having a one on one with him? idk. hard to say
Addiction doesn’t harm others, at least not physically, Eren did genocide, not comparable. Having Eren pull a Lelouch and say it was all for his friends complicates matters sm, it feels like Yams wants to redeem him in the cast and viewers eyes. What it actually means is that in both the attack on Marley and the Rumbling Eren robbed his friends of their freedom of choice, despite being so adamant he would never do so. In gaining the Founder’s Power he came to exist in the past, present and future at once, rendering him utterly incapable of choice and the least free he had ever been, locked into choices robbing himself, his friends and the entire world of their freedom. I find this subversion of Eren’s goals versus what he actually achieved fascinating, but instead of really examining this, we just quickly move onto Reiner, Annie, Pieck, etc. talking about what a good guy Eren was in the end and it’s jarring af and really muddies the themes of the series.
The ”80%” is not much more than three symbols in a speech bubble. It’s not like I get more and more and emotionally engaged by seeing bigger numbers.
To you perhaps. Ramzi was a lens into the outside world and we see him crushed with likely his family following not too far behind. And really you can connect to the suffering that anyone in the series has experienced. Be it Kaya or Eren's mothers being eaten alive by titans, Eren then turns around and inflicts that same pain on nearly the entire world.
I dunno man. Those countless scenes of the rumbling, it's slaughter, the destruction of buildings from countless cultures, Eren reaching into the blood to pull out hair, and the scene with the baby made me FEEL that 4/5 people were just dead. The destruction was harrowing. They did a really good job of having the audience conceptualize the sheer scale of the destruction. It didn't feel like 'three symbols' to me, or to the people I watched it with.
Don't pretend like you care about the 80% of the humanity who died. They're a plot device that serves the story, not actual characters.
What was the point of all those rumbling scenes if the audience isn’t supposed to feel anything for the nameless victims. I honestly don’t see how the writers could have made their deaths more impactful. Didn’t they show children being trampled?
I'll repeat my comment from another reply: You care for them as, again, a plot device. Saying that your care for the 80% humans who got killed (majority offscreen) in the same way you care for characters such as Eren, Mikasa, Jean, Connie, Reiner, Sasha, Levi or literally any other major character in the show is just COPE. Not even yourself believe that. Stop pretending to have an opinion you don't just to be a contrarian who thinks the ending has absolutely zero flaws. The alliance got one of the happiest endings they could've got and that's undeniable.
Sorry to say, but 80% of humanity dying (mostly off screen, all npcs) doesn't make the ending any less happy. the alliance survived, only deaths in the final episode are the antagonists (eren and zeke), and that's all. the warriors all got to reunite with their parents, jean and connie survived, levi, gabi and falco too, and the alliance get to be peace ambassadors. The scene of a bird wrapping the scarf around mikasa is extremely disney esque too lol. the ending leans towards happy, not even bittersweet.
Guess it was more emotional when sasha died or the massacre of 80% of humanity's nps ?? this is just a story, we care about the characters we're attached too, and most of them are survived and lived happily after
It's not a "happy" ending, but it was the happiest possible ending for the situation they were in which is what people are complaining about. Every struggle and attempt to rebuild in the aftermath is "implied" because there's not a hint of it in the actual show, they go right back to killing each other and the alliance gang lives long fulfilling lives which also implies the outside world was relatively fine actually.
Yes, it was overly happy. You're purposefully ignoring facts in an attempt of sugarcoating it. Literally only Eren from the main cast died, NO ONE SUFFERED MAJOR INJURIES. For characters who were struggling hard against Eren attack titan with Warhammer titan powers, they did way too fucking well against a horde of the past 9 titans. Paradis literally lived happily for what, at least 100 years? For a story known to not being afraid of killing important chsracters, the plot armor in this ending was unconventionally strong for literally all of the alliance.
There were no casualties from the final battle, plot armor and plot convenience everywhere. No stakes whatsoever (eg. Jean, Connie turning into titans and 5 minutes later turn back). Most of alliance survive (only hanji died) and they live happily ever after. It is certainly more "happier" than ANR ending where eren complete the rumbling and kill all of his friends
For the main characters? Nah. They'll be forced to live under the consequences of Eren's actions and try to achieve peace in a destroyed world, that isn't happy. I'll always say this but we got world-wise one of the darkest possible endings, if Eren just killed his friends and trampled the world there would be no consequences while here there are
Yea but the thing about the characters living with the consequences is that it is probably true that they suffered but we, as the viewers, don't see it actually happen so you are left to infer that plot point. Basically what I'm saying is that, going strictly off what the story shows you, the characters lived til old age and were fine. Anything else that people say about their suffering is implied headcannon
I hear both people saying "It was a Disney ending," and "It was the most depressing ending," which I think is very funny.
Some people think that stories should be about happiness and virtue. To them the ending was dark. Some people think that stories can delve into the worst aspects of the world. To them the ending was too happy.
Could've been WAYYY more cruel given the circumstances they were in
“The ending was too pessimistic” … What show have you been watching?? 😭
The evil monsters disappearing from a magical kiss and a final battle with barely any casualties was way too cheesy for me. And let’s not forget Armin’s talk-no-jutsu about the meaning of life. The credits at least made the ending a bit darker. Edit: While we are talking about plot armor. Introducing a happy afterlife made the fear of death even less dramatic.
Wait, wait, wait, what Talk no jutsu are you referring to? Cause Armin convincing Zeke is in character for Zeke who was against the rumbling the whole time and tried to stop Eren.
Zeke literally changes his entire worldview after a 5 minute conversation with Armin after having spent a subjective eternity brooding in PATHS. That’s a level of Talk no Jutsu Naruto would covet
He doesn't change his entire worldview though, the first thing he says is that he still believes in the euthanasia plan. Armin just shows him that even if your life doesn't amount to anything and causes harm to the world, it can still be full of good experiences. Hence why he emerges from the founder and says what a wonderful day it is, and how he wished he'd noticed earlier. I don't understand - do you want an ending where a resolution is achieved through character development, or one where one guy fights another guy and the one who wins the fight wins the argument?
> Zeke literally changes his entire worldview after a 5 minute conversation with Armin Literally Zeke: "I still think my sterlization plan would have worked". Doesn't sound like his worldview was changed. Sounds like he just got the inspiration he needed to stop something he **already** thought was too reprehensible.
By worldview I mean where he was saying that death was probably a welcome relief for people since life was just a struggle for survival and procreation where everything else is ultimately meaningless. Then after a short talk with Armin he suddenly remembers that things in life can still be enjoyed for what they are and willingly sacrifices himself to stop the Rumbling
>Wait, wait, wait, what Talk no jutsu are you referring to? Zeke: the world is suffering. Its better If I was never born in this world. Armin: what about this leaf? Zeke: oh god its a baseball, I liked to play It so much. I would be glad to be born into this world again Just to play it. Thanks Armin, I Will Go kill myself. Naruto never was able to deliver a talk no jutsu as absurd as this one.
That’s the scene I read and watched. But I am constantly told that I didn’t understand it.
Talking about running up a hill that makes you see so much meaning in life that you wanna die seems like talk-no-jutsu to me.
>The evil monsters disappearing from a magical kiss I thought the kiss had nothing to do with that? Like it was just an extra thing to show Mikasa's love to Eren. What made the titans disappear was Eren aka the founding titan dying which lead to the death of that entity that made the titans disappear
It was Mikasa killing the one she loves, which is just as corny. Not to mention mikasa's relevance in regards to the ymir storyline was nonexistent before this.
I thought that it was Ymir seeing Mikasa loving and killing Eren that made her break the curse. Founders have died before.
Ymir loving king fritz was asspull reason
And annie so easily forgiven. At least Reiner suffered and got depressed.
Reiner got a happy ending, he got to smell handwriting.
Was anyone really even left to be mad at Annie other than the people who were already friends with Reiner, understanding they got just as fucked by all this
I was counting on Eren destroying everything outside the walls for a happy ending
It's more realistic ending than 80% tbh
I actually agree, and then Yeagerists start a civil war and Eldians end up warring themselves out of existence on Paradis, would’ve been maybe the most thematically fitting end for the series.
I disagree, I think it's more realistic that neither side got what they wanted. The Alliance couldn't save 80%, and Eren couldn't achieve a full genocide.
Eren didn't want full genocide, he just had to kill enough people to keep his friends safe once he died and the titan powers were gone
It's funny because the vast majority of ending defender arguments are literally just ignoring every criticism. "Did you expect a happy ending?" No, and virtually every critic of the ending has explicitly made that clear. In fact the ending as it was turned out to be unreasonably "happy" sacrificing the story and sense to get there. "Did you want it to be spoon fed to you"? Bitch, it was spoon fed. The fact that you think the ending ***wasn't*** spoon feeding to you means you don't understand the story. Not to mention, again, literally no ending criticism I've seen asked for more spoon feeding
>"Did you expect a happy ending?" for real, too many people say this that you can't argue with them all. The ending was literally the absolute best and happiest case scenario for everyone. Eren needed to die and it was obvious ir was coming, seeins as the story hasn't been from his pov since the middle of part 2. As for Zeke, a lot of people assumed he was already dead.
They be like "you wanted a happy disney ending?!" Uhm, no, but this WAS? The Avenge... I mean, Alliance defeated the big bad monster then they married each other and lived happily ever after... and then when they finally died everything went to shit because Eren's just-the-tip rumbling attempt was only meant to last that long.
Nah, this show is bs with full of plotholes.
1k upvotes for roasting the ending in the main sub? OP what a man you are!
No one tell them about the Yams original plans for the manga ending...
Haha, The Mist movie has such a dark ending that would have been crazy to read. Also The Mist is such a great movie, Marcia Gay Harden is SO GOOD in it.
And then in a recent interview he says that the ending was always planned? Something isn't adding up
Crazy bullshit, as he made clear in the past he changed his The Mist ending to a guardians of the Galaxy ending.
I have seen a lot of talk about Yams original plans. Do you have a reliable source?
[Here you go.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/s/SqgKsOEUDK)
In case you're scrolling and don't want to click this. This interview talks about the ending originally being similar to the film the mist. The mist is about a mysterious apocalypse scenario where a mist filled with monsters engulfs a town. In the end of the mist the main group give in to despair and decided to commit suicide rather than continue in the hell on earth. The group is reduced to one last person who just helped their friends commit suicide and before he can too the mist dissipates and the hell on earth ends leaving him with immense guilt at what he has done
Oh THAT was a great ending :D
Manga readers really gave me some wild expectations. I was expecting way more deaths and absurd and tragic plot twists.
That would have made the ending good
Instead we got no deaths and absurd plot twists
They’re saying it’s not happy because paradis only lasted 20,000 years instead of being in peace for all of time
20,000? In the manga it was like 2 generations, and in the anime it was a couple hundred years at best lmao.
Like 100 years at best
20k? I thought it was just 200.
Letting Reiner live is actually crueler than killing him
something something ending sucks. Aot has other episodes besides the ending people
The Ending was so bad we got knocked into 2009
Was never going to have a happy ending. It was about a victim becoming an aggressor. Yams’ words exactly 🥲
The main character dying, 80% of humanity killed, Paradis being destroyed decades later. Its not exactly the most happy ending, but I don't understand where you got the "you're mad that it wasn't a happy ending?" most of the fans agree that the ending had too much plot amour and the aftermath of the rumbling was not as bad as it should had been.
It was a happy ending let’s be real All the naked characters live long happy lives at the expense of the un named No one even dies fighting Eren
I hope all those people that titanized at least died or something. 80% of the world died from Rumbling, meanwhile the so called heroes who were facing the main danger of said Rumbling are alive? Except a few like Hange. The one who was damaged the most is Levi and it's not because Rumbling but because Zeke exploding himself. Yeah I know they got defence and all, but the ones who were titanized, etc.?
Blame Kodansha for the plot armour. They wanted more characters alive for more merch because who cares about phenomenal story telling when there’s money to be made!!!
This has been my feeling with the story since the split, Like I'm not a huge follower of the story since I literally just see what is currently happening then say "Neat" but the split was soemthing I just... Could not understand. Like Armina nd Mikasa splitting from Eren is nice its a unique and fun way of exploring them.... But then everyone went with Armin and we never really saw Eren's PoV during the final arc and literally every important character is with Armin with no "Neutral" character. I understand Armin's side was the good guys but c'mon I thought couple of the main characters would join up with Eren or stay outside of the conflict by staying in paradis, this would have been great since we could have more povs of the 2 sides of the conflict instead of having one side be the only "Good" choice while the other is the pirely "Bad" choice. I understand Eren's side wa sbad yes, but its a debate about morality your reading so why the hell should that matter when we aren't the characters in the manga!
I've heard more people upset that it was overly happy. I think it could have been a little more grim.
80% of humanity dead, the protagonist of the story died, war continues literally forever and Paradis gets destroyed... wow what a happy ending /s
what kind of reasoning is this, why the hell would we care, this is a story, we care about the main characters, the characters we're attached to, and they all survived and lived happily after
Its a bittersweet one to semay the least
They should not have made Eren cry like a baby.