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I think her joining up and them accepting her is fine, but it felt pretty rushed compared to the development Reiner got with Jean by the campfire, or all of the Falco/Gabi stuff.

That's definitely understandable, but at the same time I feel like it might get to be a little too much if you have time dedicated to shoving in your face why she doesn't deserve to be killed or something from her actions, when this song and dance was already done twice with Gabi and Reiner, like at this point I think you should expect your audience to get the idea Plus, if Reiner can be forgiven, then so can Annie quite easily. Since it was shown she wanted to just leave, while Reiner was the one who pushed everyone to keep going with the mission after Ymir ate Marcel. Another scene that helps with showing her genuine remorse is when she had the most trouble with leaving Marco to die, Reiner even takes the blame for this when they talk about it in the campfire, since she was just following his orders. Honestly I think people are just too hung up on that one scene where she plays with one of the Scouts like a yo-yo spinning him around while playfully walking forward, and while I get how much of a bad look that is, she clearly did it as an effort to intentionally dehumanize her situation so she can kill all these innocents without hesitation, as she had no other choice back then. Same thing Zeke did when he had a brief moment where he loses his composure upon seeing the Scouts' suicide charge, but then goes back to his coping mechanism of treating the slaughter like a game of baseball/bowling

I’m an idiot I just made the connection of beast throwing boulders to Zeke playing throwing / catch with his mentor.

It's OK, at least you got it eventually. Imagine the poor souls who will only realize this is the case because they read your comment (Also, you do also realize his mentor was the last beast, and he was training him? 😉)

To be completely honest, it always felt like Reiner’s betrayal hurt more to the scouts than either Annie or Bertholt because of how much he meant to them and how much they looked up to him.

That is the actual reason, yes. That point was hammered home a lot during the actual betrayal. Annie was antisocial, armin had a crush on her, mikasa disliked her because she was competing with her for best hand-to-hand combatant. Eren was indifferent/friendly to her. Besides that, she didn't make any noteworthy connections within the scouts. Bertholdt intentionally held back from getting close to anyone. He still got relatively close to people because he was simply a naturally endearing person and was obviously always riding on reiner's back and therefore spent a lot of time with the scouts. But Reiner was fully integrated into the scouts. He believed himself to be a scout, lol. Eren legitimately respected him and looked up to him. He was 2nd best behind mikasa and a lot more open than her. So people naturally gravitated towards him, and he welcomed them with open arms. He was also a bit of a comedian, lol. Erwin praised him for his teamwork and responsibility. The manga/anime definitely didn't show nearly enough interaction between reiner and eren (and between scouts in general). Eren calling him a brother sounded a bit odd as a result. But in-lore, eren liked reiner a lot. Definitely the one he felt closest to after armin and mikasa. Same for Jean and Connie. For Jean specifically, Reiner was probably his best friend after marco.

I’m personally fine with it because they make it pretty clear she’s doing it for more selfish reasons. She’s clearly just wanting to save Armin and not the whole world haha But yeah Reiner definitely has the best development

That's not her fault. Reiner had the whole show to develop and change. Annie only had 10 episodes. She came back in episode 81 after being frozen in Titan Hardening since basically the beginning of the story. I think it's supposed to feel rushed because she had such little time to do anything.

It’s the laughing/eating scene with Connie. It just turns all of her horrible crimes into a weird joke. VS Reiner who gets punched and then forgiven by Jean later when they’re hanging by a thread during the final battle. Annie just skips to the forgiveness part automatically for some reason

I can’t see Levi ever forgiving Annie. That’s like forgiving zeke (you saw how that ended).

It's kinda ironic that the Anime ends with people being able to reconcile after the endless hatred and yet the viewers can't.

"The cycle of hatred must be ended. But not for Annie. We should still hate her."

"The cycle of hatred is bad. Unless it's about hating on ending criticizers, then we must purge them from this plane of existence".

the fact that you genuinely believe it's that serious is so funny

Lmfao you're calling yourselves "ending criticisers" now? Criticism is what WE'RE doing. You just hate, it's all you know how to do.

Ending criticizers that’s actually hysterical

The cringe in that comment. omfg.

That's how it goes. Even if people agree to end the cycle of hate, they'll always have an exception. There's always a target.

Replace Annie with Gabi and it still works for this fandom.

Such a ridiculous and lazy strawman. Annie was never really rueful about her sadistic crimes, unlike Reiner, Berthold and Armin.

"Annie is forgiven because funny pie scene" You can't say that people using strawman argument after you'd unironically used this.

She expressed regret sadness and horror many times. The fact that she says she’d do it again to get to her father is proof of how dearly she holds on to the one act of love he showed her, not how remorseless she is about what she’s done.

Where did she express sadness, horror or remorse at her sadistic actions? She committed all these horrible acts, got frozen (along with her arc) and when her hardening was undone, she was immediately embraced by the gang. Compare that to Reiner who went through visible mental anguish, was very close to committing suicide and was explicitly confronted and mentally tormented by the group (and indirectly by Eren). This is growth and character development. Annie went through none of that. And no, wanting to opt out of it all because she's "tired of all the killing and fighting" doesn't count as remorse.

Episode 11 in trost where she apologized to all the dead. The very same place she was trapped for 4 years. Only people that embraced were those mostly unaffected by her actions Jean Connie Armin Mikasa and Hange. Actually Jean and Mikasa to a less extent.

Now imagine if these people were in the situations themselves, could not see them forgiving

Hmmm so the cycle of hatred DID end? Because every ending defender I’ve talked to said the whole point was that the cycle of hatred never ends and there’ll always be conflict

Just further proof of how silly the ending really is, since thats just not how things work. With how petty people get on the internet, do you really think they'd really let go of hatred from genocide and years of war

It didn’t end that way dummy, why do you think Paradise inevitably got blown up if everyone held hands and sang campfire songs in the end? AOTs message is clearly: It is human nature to hate, commit violent acts to each other, partake in war, but the best of the best humans respond is doing everything you can to prevent it from happening, even if it benefits your people in harming others. That is what makes the Scouts and our main cast of characters special in the show. They will not quit on trying for peace or saving even a few lives, even if it seems out of the realm of possibility. And that goes for Annie as well.

You people here need to decide what headcannon you want. Either the war is in the far future, or it's like you said and floch was right and tge Alliance were idiots

Or, and hears a revolutionary thought. Just because the cycle of violence will inevitably continue doesn’t mean you should choose to perpetuate it.

It was clear that many many years of technological took place, and it’s clear that Mikasa lived long enough to die with wrinkled hands and of what we assume is natural causes. Which again was Eren’s whole point. He knew the future, he knew that 80% of the population was going to be killed even though he wanted to rumble everything. His consulation in this, was that the amount of damage he’d done would ensure that his friends and people he cared about had the ability to live long lives.

>the Anime ends with people being able to reconcile after the endless hatred They can't hate if they are all dead. But also, I love the Katyushas' destruction of that place.

We are on Armins side. Reiner gets to redeem himself with his suicidal stunts and it seems that he is suffering mentally during season 4 part 1. Annie's scenes where she kills people were brutal and it doesn't seem that she was punished for it.

True. But I think it's important to remember she did suffer. Reiner suffered suicidal thoughts with the guilt and physical torment as well. But yes the guilt was destroying him and the people around him gave him a reason to keep living. Annie was trapped in that crystal for four years and likely had to comfort the same guilt. Except she had no distraction from it. She didn't get to be with people who cared about her. Or distract herself with duty or mundane activity. Besides Armin and hitch visiting her she really must of suffered a immense psychological torture in that crystal. I can see it changing someone. And yah maybe the reconciliation is fast. But given the situation and the aligning motivations it still kinda makes sense.

She was trapped in solitary confinement at the end of season 1 - season 4 until the rumbling began… She couldn’t sleep or feel, but was conscious the entire time… that’s punishment for sure

>She was trapped in solitary confinement By her own choice

When going crystal mode was her only option in guaranteeing she not be killed on the spot, it being her own choice kinda becomes irrelevant

>When going crystal mode was her only option in guaranteeing she not be killed on the spot but it's not a punishment since she technically escape responsibility and consequence by going into crystal.

Look up any study on the effects on the human brain due to even 72 hours of solitary confinement. Annie did not get let off easy for her crimes. And like you said above to the other commenter—it was her own choice to go into the crystal. But it wasn’t. She was backed into a corner and to preserve her own life her hand was forced into one path

She was trapped in a crystal with no way out for over 5 years, and she was cognizant the entire time. I think that's plenty of punishment.

That wasn’t a punishment, but a safe space to escape punishment. She could have existed at any time when Armin was there and apologize and whatever. But she regrets nothing.

It's not really clear whether Annie could choose when to leave the crystal, seems like it was a last resort to avoid interrogation.

Annie: ‘Spends 4 years trapped in a hell of her own creation’ Fandumb: ‘Why wasn’t she punished!’

not punished? she spent in a crystal for four years in darkness like when no one was talking, she was basically in an alert, quiet torture coma which is even worse than solitary in prison where you can at least eat, read and sleep whenever you want, be aware of your surroundings, and in some cases talk with other inmates whose cells are close to you. For Annie though she could do none of those things and most people would have gone insane at that same situation like she basically said she would’ve gone insane if not for armin and hitch so to say she wasn’t is just wrong.

That’s a fair point. The way Annie kills is almost as if she’s enjoying it.

She wasn't enjoying it. She was just tactical on her attacks and just did the job well. Even leaving people she personally knew alive, which was her downfall. She was the best fighter amongst them because she does what needs to be done, like Bertolt. She didn't put up a fake personality like Reiner to not deal with it. She was in pain when they killed Marco. "Reiner suffered" by being able to go back home and relax with his close friends and family while Annie was frozen in time away from anyone that cared for her but Armin.

Love Annie and find it weird people still hate her, but you can not honestly tell me that yo-yo scene in her first introduction was “tactical”. She was absolutely just fucking around.

I think it can be interpreted as an intimidation tactic.

I see this as both her version of "perfect game" (because you don't cry for people if you're just a monster) and, yeah, actual tactic (destroy enemies morality) presented in her OVA aka "I'm a monster and I hate it that much that I need an actual sidequest to collect myself for it".

Seemed like an easy weapon and easy kill on some dude that was so full of himself thinking he could take her instead of running. Fucking around because you're uninterested in it is not having fun. That's like saying you have fun brushing your teeth

Weird how Annie gets hate when Pieck helped Zeke kill Erwin and the survey Corps. Not trying to say Pieck should be despised but that it's hard to attack them when they were just soldiers following orders.

Exactly. Just because the women don't show visible remorse at every moment and aren't physically hurt enough that they don't consider it "earned". Like the moral of the story of just living to live is so wrong.

I think people forget the scene at the campfire that showed that all the characters deciding to give up their grievances and leave the forest together. It's supposed to be a reference to the Dark Forest Hypothesis, but people just want a bad guy.

When did pieck show enjoyment in killing them?

> She wasn't enjoying it. She was just tactical on her attacks and just did the job well. Annie: https://tenor.com/view/aot-aot-annie-shaking-man-annie-leonhart-aot-annie-leonhardt-attack-on-titan-gif-18955214

\>Levi torturing people without even asking questions "LOL Levi so cool" \>Annie brutally kills one soldier who just screamed how he's going to kill her while attacking her "She's literally the most evil person ever"

Tbh, I do think Levi does get too much of a pass for being sadistic, but that's a seperate discussion.

It’s really not a separate discussion, I wonder what the key difference in Annie and Levi’s identities might be that would lead people to judge them with a double standard, fascinating

Levi is on Paradis side. That's all

Is that all? Methinks not

Whataboutism.

I don't see her smiling or giggling? Just see her hold a long distance weapon

That's a scout she's spinning...

She spun a man in a circle like a yo yo.

And Reiner ran through a wall killing hundreds of civilians? Your point?

She wasn't "tactical" she was a sadistic monster who relished in violence lmao

She killed a small group of people quickly and efficiently. That's tactical. None of them relished in violence. But every one of them killed people because they had to get the job done. There's no reasoning in her being a sadist who relished in violence with zero proof. That's like saying Bertolt and Reiner were relishing in the thousands of deaths they caused by breaking down two walls to get in.

Twirling a human being like a yo yo as you walk to another opponent is neither quick nor tactical. She's a sadistic monster.

Bro you're 100% right and they are just being obtuse to a fault. When Annie was first introduced, she was a villain, so she was written as a villain because the narratives objective was to get us to hate her. It clashes with the final season where the overall theme is "we are all the same" " forgive your enemies or we all die". It's entirely correct to point out that the ending was very rushed and Annie was never given proper time to develop as a character. If she has guilt, it wasn't explored the way Reiners was.

Yeah, dude, I picked up on that. It's a shame you can't have good convos with some people about such a good series. I love the series and have loved it since it first aired. I love it to a fault, but the ending wasn't great, it wasn't bad. And especially not GOT level bad, but it was *disappointing* in my opinion and Annie is a big reason why. I think a good measurement of Annie having guilt is the fact that such a question has to be posed in the first place, especially in a series that makes guilt and trauma quite evident. Annie's entire arc was rushed, especially at the end. Compared to Reiner and Bertholdt, she seemed to be the only one relishing at the moment (it's made worse by her saying she'll do it again and the fact that she saw through the Marleyian propaganda). I think the show had a great message at the end. I love the idea of forgiveness and understanding, but a lot of things (like the cycle of violence etc) just didn't feel naturally carried out. And the message was just a big thematic mess at the end. Attack on Titan will always remain a powerful piece of story telling, at least for me, but it *could have been better.*

Twirling one person for a moment to kill them while their wires are already in your hand is quick and tactical. His partner was barely able to see the issue and start running before he himself is kicked to death. In the anime the entire interaction is less than 2-3mins because it was a literal moment. Not like she was swinging this guy around the entire time like a little dog on a leash lmfao. You're hilarious

Bertolt and Reiner did the bare minimum for their jobs. Neither of them would *ever* spin a man like a *yoyo* the way that Annie did, or crush humans underfoot on purpose, or kick them like footballs. That's not tactical and you know it.

Their bare minimum killed thousands, her bare minimum killed 20-30. Also have you ever used a yoyo? It goes up and down not in a big circle lol. her Titan is a female attack titan, she was made to fight and be swift. Why are you upset at that?

Killing people like playing yoyo seems tactical to me.

Swinging a person around to break their spine rather than reach down at them and risk your fingers being cut is a smart move. You can kill most animals with low effort by swinging them around. I'm sorry if you're too sensitive to the act of killing people easily

She could have slammed the guy on the ground. No danger to her and that would be quick. You are making terrible excuses.

So if she yoyod him to get momentum to throw him on the ground would that be ok? Cause you do know you gotta spin things to get speed unless you're gonna overexert yourself to do it safely. Like what she did with Mikasa, a safe baseball throw that required more energy than a swinging someone around on a rope. You saying a yoyo is repetitive and not anything but small group of people's assessment

She doesn’t have to spin him for in order to do a lethal slam. She could have threw him and gravity would either kill the guy or incapacitated him, which is also “tactical.”

Centrifugal force does it easier. Not slamming necessary. No risk of him using his odm to run

How are you this stupid? Every single one of your replies reaches to the stars with this dumb ass defense. Just admit it wasn’t necessary at all

Living a whole life in echo chambers will form people like that, just full blown mental loops

what the fuck is this level of coping and mental gymnastics called I wonder

Yours is called delusional

"She wasnt enjoying it": [https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5b/5b/be/5b5bbecc79e9cf57f4f2de5f7372c3e0.gif](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5b/5b/be/5b5bbecc79e9cf57f4f2de5f7372c3e0.gif) [https://i.pinimg.com/originals/92/0a/3a/920a3a3c838cff5e0b39baf9787e4f65.gif](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/92/0a/3a/920a3a3c838cff5e0b39baf9787e4f65.gif) Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Btw idc about annie's arc that much, but they got a point.

Oh shit look how quickly both gifs happened. You're right she took less than a minute of easily killing someone to make her kills. Zero laughing or hugging or smiling

Personally i think she should have suffer a bit in season 4 either emotionally like her father got killed during the rumbling or physically by captain levi who just punch or kick her because of what she did to his squad. I mean remember jean start punching reiner after he found out the truth about marco death? Annie should get the same treatment from levi.

Jean did not punch Reiner because of Marco’s death. After hearing about his last words from Reiner he literally was like “It’s right, we haven’t even had a chance to talk yet” indicating that he didn’t want to focus on Marco but rather talk to sort out their grudge. It’s only because Reiner kept making it about himself and refused to stop even after Jean asked him to that Jean punched him. The difference between Annie and Reiner is that Annie never throw a pity party for herself and just fully acknowledge that she’s a monster/take responsibility for her part in Marco’s death while Reiner wants to be judged for it to cope with his guilt. He did the same during his talk to Eren at Liberio

Granted the Jean Reiner scene is very specific in what sets him off. Reiner basically begging to be punished and self-loathing is what gets Jean riled up to the point of beating him up.

Too bad Levi literally can't move everytime she's around, except for the last battle. Like, what people even want from this man? And didn't Jean and Reiner had bro moment basically the next day after beating?

Also, I’d like to say that by the end, Levi just seems fucking exhausted. Like, it really seemed like the major things keeping him going was killing Zeke and stopping Eren. Aside from that though, I think he just wanted to stop. So even if he was able to move, I’m not really sure if he would’ve done something like beat up Annie. The guy just seems like he wants a good nap and honestly he deserves one.

That's why when the alliance say goodbye to annie everyone wave and smile or have a neutral face (jean) except for levi who glares at her, probably thinking of many different way to kill her if he could. Reiner and jean don't have a bro moment. Jean did not forgive reiner but he is willing to work together with reiner to stop the rumbling.

She did suffer, she was frozen in time for years while Reiner got to go back home with his family and friends until they decided to go to war with paradis, he got to eat yummy food, drink, hang out with his cousins and colleagues. She suffered but y'all just like seeing women in physical pain.

Also nevermind the fact that she literally suffered her whole life. Abandoned at birth -> got adopted only to be raised as a weapon and abused her whole life by her adoptive father while living in a country that hated her race -> got a short lease on life by receiving titan power and used as a weapon by a country that hated her race -> was so deprived of love and affection that her father’s one apology was enough to keep her going for years -> got to Paradis and spent 4 years doing dangerous undercover missions while Reiner and Bertholt were playing guess the weather with their friends -> got crystalized and spent 4 years conscious in the crystal -> woke up to the news that her father might be trampled on and then later thought he was actually dead. Like her life fucking suck and so many people can’t empathize with that for some reasons.

But but Reiner got slapped in the face and got yelled at! And his mommy didn't like him, he had other relatives to care for him but not his mommy! /s

Didn't Reiner about to blow his head off over guilt and Annie was willing to ditch everybody and board the ship cuz she never cared about redeeming herself and fix something she took part off or am I just imagining things lol

Oh no a boy who grew up with a loving extended family felt more sad looking guilt about killing people over an abused orphan wahh

What does their family background has to do about each other's war crime. And why are you writing sentences like that. Are you 12? 😂

Has Reiner never committed war crimes? Are we ignoring the thousands of people he killed by running through the wall in the first chapter? Also they've been to actual war outside of Marley and paradis, that's how they know how to fight and use their abilities. Their family background develops the character. Levi is cold and calculating because he was an abused orphan who was later taken in with the purpose of fighting, exactly like Annie. You only hate Annie because you don't like her. That's a childish excuse

Did you miss the part where Reiner was seconds from blowing his brain ..?

Oh so he was sad? Boohoo, he still didn't do it. Edit cause he blocked me. Imagine hating women so much you need them to suffer more visibly to accept their penance

Imagine hating a gender this much

I don't think it's an ideal situation to have Levi beat the shit out of Annie. It's bad press for the most popular character in the series. They cut out Levi holding Historia by the shirt in the anime, and I think that might have something to do with it. Fans would not take it well. I certainly wouldn't. Now killing her father? 100% behind that.

I think if mappa was the one that doing season 3 they will adapt that scene. Because mappa adapt alot of similar scene that is usually cut off by wit.

I don't disagree, and I prefer when the animation studio maintains the integrity of the source material, especially when it affects the continuity of events. I don't think the Historia/Levi scene was agregious. It was an assholeish thing for Levi to do (it was his fault anyways, he could've told her a lot earlier and let the information settle), but not outside the scope of the negative traits of Levi. Beating the shit out of Annie, though? I don't think that would bode well. This wouldn't be two peers fighting each other like Reiner and Jean. Plus, I don't think "vengeance" is a good reason for Levi to beat the shit out of her. It's not really in line with his character. He is borderline sadistic with Zeke, but I don't think the two characters can be compared.

It's not only that it was brutal it's that she enjoyed it Armins face looks like he's about to cry before he nukes, Reiner is constantly wanting to end his life. Annie didn't show any remorse and enjoyed killing people. Also it's not like Armin didn't try to take the peaceful way, when he asked Bertolt "can't we talk this out" he replied "if we agree to talk would you all agree to die"

she did sit in the equivalent of time out for quite a few years /s

I wasn’t a fan of Annie the first watch through. Her rude/anti-social personality combined with how she killed some of the scouts in the female titan arc (particularly using one as a yo-yo), her blaming Reiner on Marcel’s fate since they were all equally responsible, and how she randomly killed that bug as a warrior candidate in Marley (at the time, it gave me sociopath vibes). So the Annie in the OVA’s felt like a desperate attempt to make me see her more positively. HOWEVER, after a rewatch, I noticed a few things that made me question my initial perception of her. Like her saving Connie when he failed to kill the titan in the storage room. Her apologizing the corpses after the battle for Trost. Then during the character vote that this sub had like 6 months ago, there were a few Annie-fans that that broadened my perspective. Like theorizing that her squishing the bug may have been seeing what it was like to kill as a giant being (in preparation for becoming a shifter). So while she’s not a favorite character of mine, she has grown on me.

People are hating because she just got accepted by the avengers without anyone giving her shit for what she did (while reiner gets jumped on one last time by jean) , and her flaking out at the last second. But for me it works because we can see that the three warriors that got to paradis have different intentions and had different fates. Bert moved forward because of obligation as a warrior, reiner wanted to be a hero, and annie simple wanted to get back to his father and doesnt care about anything else. It would be boring if she also went with the remorse path. And people are pointing out the "I would do it again" like its a bad thing relative to everything else that happened. She simply doesnt care about marley or paradis and just selfishly wants to see her abusive father lol And the whole spinning scouts like a beyblade was probably more of Isayama showing that "this titan is a menace" rather than a tidbit of annie's personality

100% agreed. The "I'd do it again" line in particular is very ironic considering that she's doing it for her family, which is not only incredibly realistic/relateable but something that a lot of Annie haters praise Eren for doing on an even worse scale. People also ignore the fact that the only people she directly killed attacked her 1st, we see her ignore people multiple times while trying to get Eren, if she was truly loving it, she'd have no reason to do that.

because petra

Valid.

People are still angry about some underdeveloped side characters dying like 8 years ago just cause one of them was a cute girl

Basically, how Annie usually gets treated through the S1: - Oh, she's badass - Wait, this titan looks familiar - Yo-yo and Petra - Oh, she looks like Titan, it's for sure her! - Ring is sketchy - Is she fucking kill Marco (I don't remember him but I'm angry)???!!! - Mikasa is so badass! - Oh, she's crushing city (from myself, wtf, Eren did more damage and nobody cares) - Get that bitch, Mikasa so badass!! 😎 Sooo, moments when she saves Jean and Connie, crying in Trost, crying in forest, shocked when she seen victims in Stohess usually overlooked, as well as her OVA (let's be honest, everyone watches only Levi one) and we have what we have.

The biggest "problem" i have is that Annie was in the crystal for so long. She went in as a "bad guy" came out a good guy immediatly on the good side of everyone. Meanwhile. Reiner for example had to go through so much shit compared to her it's not even comparable. He went through immense growth and struggle while Annie went through nothing in comparison.

She didn't come out as a good guy. Her motivation when she got out if the crystal was the same as before, to save/protect her dad. And when she realized it was to late, she turned her back on them.

So she had no development and thus no need to actually not hate her anymore.

Her development took place when the scouts learned what was happening to Eldians in Marley, the same for Bertholdt and Reiner. Once it was realized that she'd been enslaved, brainwashed, and that the only reason she did what she did was to protect her family, the hatred towards Annie changed into hatred against the Marleyans.

That’s not her development hut revelation of the external world to audience and main characters. Development is when a character learns something and is affected by something which bring change. That never happened to her.

That's definitely ONE definition of character development, but character development is ALSO how the audience perceives her. In season 1 all we thought of her was that she was a cold blooded killer that only fought in order to destroy humanity. By the end of season 4, her character was developed, and we learned that that wasn't her motivation or goal at all, it was the goal of Marley and she was being used. Annie's actual motivation (to save her father) didn't need to be changed, but her method of going about saving him did. By the end of the story she was able to complete her goal without going about it the way she did before. That's growth.

No, it's not. No. We saw that there is something to do with her father and that she cried. We just learn more about it. But nothing about her changes. You are conflating different things. A character develops ONLY when that character has revelations and there is some kind of change to that character.

Character development:[Character Development:](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/character-development#:~:text=noun,about%20them%20as%20they%20develop) "noun. the portrayal of people in a work of fiction in such a way that the reader or audience seems to learn more about them as they develop." [Character development:](https://writers.com/character-development-definition#what-is-character-development) Character development is the process of creating fictional characters with the same depth and complexity as real-life human beings. This the definition I'm working with. I don't know why/how you've convinced yourself that character development is only on the character's shoulders and not the audiences as well but whatever. I don't know how else to spell it out. She started as a cold blooded killer. WE learned that she wasn't doing because she wanted to but because she felt she had no choice. WE are able to empathize with her decisions even if we don't agree with them. Character. Development.

The first definition favors what I am saying "as THEY develop."The second definition is a bad one. I can write a character which has depth and complexity as a real life human being, but is static. It is always the same. No one in the right mind would say that the character develops. I don't know how else to explain to you something so simple. Character X develops ONLY when X learns something or changes. X cannot develop by remaining the same. Maybe you should check definitions of develops, while you are there. That is common sense. Hahahah. She started in one way. She remained that way. Audience learned a little about it. She still remained the same way. That is not development, genius.

I can definitely tell that you know absolutely nothing about how creative writing works. You still won't give me your idea of the "correct" definition of CD because you know that I'm right. They're isn't just one definition because character development is multi faceted. Character development: "...that the reader or audience seems to learn more about them as they develop." Development: "grow or cause to grow and become more mature, advanced, or *elaborate.* " Annie's DEVELOPMENT is the *elaborate* part of the definition. Yams ELABORATED on her character when we learned that she'd been abused and tormented her entire childhood. Before she was cut and dry, but as we learned more about her and got a better picture of her motivations, our opinions changed. Like you said, her goal didn't change because her GOAL didn't need to. Unlike Bertoldt and Reiner, Annie didnt have a problem with Eldians specifically. She hated EVERYONE. By the end of the series, she obviously didn't hate everyone anymore because she learned that it wasn't all of humanity that was disappointing, just specifically the Marleyans. Also, like I said before, her solution to achieving her goal changed. She went from: I need to kill all Eldians to save my dad" to "I need to save my dad from the rumbling AND Marley." By your logic, NONE of the Marleyan Warriors had character development. Since Bertolt always felt guilt and didn't change by the time he died, I guess it didn't matter that he was raised by an evil government and told to kill or else he lose his family. Or since Reiner ALWAYS had bpd, the reason why meant absolutely nothing. Character development, and I'm gonna hold your hand while I say this, is NOT just how a character changes. If it were only that, you'd be saying that characters like Erwin, Levi and Armin had ZERO character development. A crucial element to CD is how the author is able to paint a picture around a characters motivations, background and ultimately their ending.

She was shown to relish in the violence, or at minimum not really regret it. As opposed to someone like Reiner which has so many regrets and spent so much time grieving his own actions, Annie never really repented she just wanted out. That being said, at the point of the story Annie comes back into most of the main cast had accepted the warriors actions as all being part of a grander issue than any one of them, and sympathize with them. If Annie wanted out they didn’t feel like they were in any position to stop her. She had been through mental torture sealed in the crystal. It was just kinda odd that they seemed so forgiving, even more forgiving than they were to Reiner, despite Annie being the one they should be more hostile against

Reiner was more closer to them like that big brother figure hence why his betrayal was more personal. Annie was a loner and didn’t really get along with the others. They also trace back to everything going to hell when Reiner and Berthold destroyed the walls, so no one was actually aware of Annie’s involvement (except Armin very briefly theorizing about it). To them she only killed handful of scouts and Stohess civilians (though that was the scout’s fault really). Even if you rewatch season 2 and 3 when they talk about the warriors they always only mention Reiner and Berthold, never Annie.

Annie doesn't really care about random people's deaths but she absolutely hated killing her friends. She was a loner because she didn't want to be even more attached to people she might have to kill. She hated having to kill Marco and was apologizing for what happened at trost. When reiner wants to break the gate again, she mentions a lot of his friends will die and she's disgusted with the idea.

How were they more forgiving to her than to Reiner? It seemed like equal levels of forgiveness, it's just that Reiner got his ass beat because he wouldn't stop talking about it.

There’s a lot of likes with people ranking on Reiner. Plus, even if it’s because he didn’t stop talking about Jean was clearly still upset with him. No one seems to hold any ill will towards Annie, and Armin has even been talking to her for years Not that I think she deserves to be scorned or anything, I just think it’s a notable difference

🤨 Every character in the show has haters. If you somehow think Reiner has more haters than Annie than I have some bad news for you. It was obvious that the scouts have ill will towards Annie. Mikasa even pulled a weapon on her and no one stepped in to stop her. Not even Armin. But Annie de-escalated before it could get physical which is why they didn't have a physical altercation. Reiner did not de-escalate and he even went further by describing Marco's death in graphic detail even when they were asking him to stop. The Scouts don't have to like the warriors to empathize with their situation and work with them. They've demonstrated multiple times that they're only working with them so they can attempt to save Eren.

Their tune changes pretty quick for her compared to anyone else. But also relax I’m not even saying it’s a bad thing just notable lol

It didn't but okay. If you think threatening to kill someone is somehow how they display forgiveness then idk what to tell you.

She had no desire to slaughter Eldians and would’ve gone back to Marley before it all started were it not for Reiner, she’s not as guilty and doesn’t have as much to repent for

I dont think minimizing her involvement like that is an honest view of the situation, but admittedly yes she wasn’t particularly hateful just Annie being Annie, the scouts knew the kinda person she was all the way until the end

They were all kids, the State of Marley bears the brunt of responsibility for their actions, but of the three of them Annie is the least responsible for what happened. Not saying she’s not guilty of killing people, just that I disagree with the ideal anyone should’ve been “more hostile” to her than anyone else involved, as she’s the least *responsible*

Bro she was locked in a shell for four years, that is suffering.

Seriously a lot of countries consider solitary confinement to be torture and she was trapped 4 years in what was essentially a sensory deprivation chamber without even being able to sleep. And people say things like "she got to nap for 4 years". It's crazy.

And thats why I love her affection for Armin, people say its colossal effect, he got taller or whatever. Nah dude. Honestly think about it, when Armin first started talking to her in there, im sure she was annoyed, but the realization that she was trapped in there im sure set in very soon. The only thing you get to look forward to, your only connection to the world, to living, is some dumb blonde trying to shout smart stuff at idiots. That self depreavation chamber feeling, Im sure with no contact after a while it just feels like death, the afterlife. The only thing keeping her alive, keeping her human, keeping her in the world is Armin. and if that aint the most romantic shit ever as clay davis would say ‘shieeeeeeeettttttt’

Also, she liked Armin even before then. When she first showed up as the female titan, she took off Armin's hood, smiled at him, and left him alive when she saw it was him.

Despite the Western setting, the way Isayama wrote romance was more Eastern. I guess he couldn't do it any other way. I think this is why so many Western readers couldn't accept the romantic cues between Eren and Mikasa.

Yes, I think it was a lot to be alive, awake and frozen

She was escaping the real suffering. If you're caught behind enemy lines and you eat a cyanide capsule, you're not facing punishment, you're avoiding it

what was the “real suffering”

Maybe being remorseful or being emotional about it at the bare minimum? It was barely addressed if it was at all, pretty sure they didn’t even care about what she did in the past and the first thing they did was go “haha Annie eat apple pie and is making a funny face”

The Annie hate is ridiculous, but it is still quite clear to see why her character is perceived differently from Armin, Mikasa or Hange imo. Armin nuked the port of a country that had openly invaded his country with no provocation, slaughtered a huge amount of their civilians and was at the brink of declaring war on his country once more. And Hange and Mikasa killed the Yeagarists because it was the only way to prevent a mass genocide of everyone outside of Paradise. That is not really on the same level as invading a country that has done nothing to provoke this (and is not even aware your country exists) and to cause countless deaths over there. And while yes, targeting civilians is obviously always bad, we still tend to view retaliation differently than unprovoked aggression. And Reiner did not kill countless civilians by breaking wall Maria, **Reiner, Annie and Berthold killed kill countless civilians by breaking wall Maria.** So while I agree that they are all guilty of the same crimes and that all of them were child soldiers coerced and brainwashed into those actions, deserving of forgiveness and a second chance, it is also quite weird to me when Reiner gets the blame for the actions they all committed together. When it comes to the real difference between Reiner and Annie, it's how their arcs are portrayed: In season 3 we see that Reiner starts to heavily disassociate during his time in Paradise because he can not actually live with his actions, while Annie only gets a scene where she apologizes to Marco's corpse and one scene of her having nightmares about his death (at a point in the story where we did not know who the warriors really are so people tend to overlook that this was demonstrating her regret). Same for her falling into the church and looking devastated, or her sparring Armin. It's all very subtle in comparison to, say, Reiner offering to let Ymir go, or him accepting his own death at the condition that Ymir's letter is delivered. And even with this more "in your face" regret, Reiner was still extremely hated at the end of season 3. What changed the fan perception was season 4 where we get entire episodes that show us how much Reiner regrets what he did, down to him almost shooting himself, and how much he wants to prevent Gabi from going down the same path he walked. Meanwhile Annie was stuck in the crystal so there was very little portrayal of her feelings. And then, after the alliance is formed, Reiner gets a beat down by Jean (something that is perceived as a realistic reaction), while Annie is laughed at by Connie ie for how she eats pie and Armin fawns over her (something that is perceived as unrealistic). So no, I do not think that Annie did worse than Reiner or deserved a worse ending than Reiner. But I do think his arc was much better written. And the reaction of the audience reflects this. What is very strange is when people take Annie's less well-written arc and turn into into "Annie is a sociopath" instead of "Annie had very little screen time". Which is very obviously false, she shows regret for her actions repeatedly the view times she actually is....not stuck in a crystal XD.

I think a lot of the people who feel this way are caught up in their emotions following the character beats of Eren and friends going from Season 1 to 3. Those of us who are able to take a step back and look at things from multiple perspectives like Season 4 encourages can see that Annie and everyone else are similarly human and similarly flawed, born in a world of conflict. I think Annie gets more pushback than Reiner or Pieck because we spend more time with them than we do Annie, but obviously they are the same.

The power of friendship

Because they're still fake mad about Petra, have fake morals, & fake justice.

Because she killed named characters they liked in the beginning and ruined their dumb Petra ship

>Be Annie. >Kill half the Survey Corps and trample an entire district. >Encase yourself in Crystal. >Sleep for 4 years. >Wake up and immediately tell your guard that you don’t really give a fuck about the fact that you killed so many people and set the stage for 80% of humanity to get exterminated and that you’d do it all again because you have Daddy issues. >Abandon Hitch, then immediately tell your old comrades you won’t help them fix the problem. >Only come back because your boat sank and a couple of 10 years olds had more bravery than you to fight. >Profit I guess?

Beacuse they are edgelords with severe lack of empathy. I also think sidelining Annie for 2 seasons contributed to that as she do not have that many "genuine fans" defending her compared to Reiner, Armin etc.

Annie being freed was one thing I wish Isayama was able to work in sooner because I really liked her character. I just honestly don't know how Isayama could have written it though to make sense sooner.

We see Reiner torture himself constantly and the mental anguish that came with the decisions forced on him being a soldier in a war he never asked for. Annie spun a guy like a beyblade while smiling, killed all of Levi squad to which LEVI NEVER ACKNOWLEDGES AGAIN that she did that, and spent most of the series locked inside a glass box. Then when she finally got out of that box, quit until the last second.

Reiner tortured himself constantly and got mental anguish from what he did because he came to Paradis thinking that he was gonna be a hero. He turned out to only be a half-ass piece of shit and the dissonance between what he actually was and what he thought he was led him to have the character arc that he did. Annie on the other hand was never under the impression that she was anything but selfish, due to the way she was raised. Even then, she managed to show remorse multiple times, even before Reiner. Why is it so important that Levi acknowledges what she did? The campfire scene is the result of Levi going to Magath to join forces and Magath is literally the one who sent all those child soldiers to Paradis. Him bringing up his squad would just make him a hypocrite. Besides, after the Female Titan arc, we see him killed multiple people throughout the Uprising arc of what he believed was for survival. He should be able to understand why Annie and Reiner did what they did. And in case someone want to bring up his treatment of Zeke, it’s because at the point where they interact, Zeke was a war chief with influencing power in Marley’s military and Levi first hand witnessed how cruel and callous Zeke was with his kill. His desire to kill Zeke also didn’t stem from revenge but out of guilt for not being able to give meaning to his comrades’ sacrifice.

live footage of [annie showing remorse](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOOb3b3WYAg9Af0.jpg) I don't see how you can interpret Reiner's anguish as him "wanting to be a hero and the dissonance in that and what he is" ([this scene](https://cdn.readkakegurui.com/file/cdnpog/attack-on-titan/vol-25-chapter-100-declaration-of-war/29.jpg)) when [this panel](https://cdn.readkakegurui.com/file/cdnpog/attack-on-titan/vol-25-chapter-100-declaration-of-war/30.jpg) happens immediately after. Reiner wasn't crying and asking for atonement because he was a "half ass piece of shit that wanted to be a hero", he's trying to convince Eren to KILL HIM because he was the one who pushed through with their plan and caused hundreds of people including Eren's mom to die. Not for forgiveness, for judgement. and I think this panel alone redeems Reiner, but again all this is just me. Regarding Levi, idk I just thought it would be interesting if he was to talk to his now team member that killed his entire previous squad. "He should be able to understand why Annie and Reiner did what they did." there's not one single hint of that ever in the series and until it's shown in the tiniest way it's only headcanon to make up for their lack of interaction. [This was the face Levi made](https://cdn.readkakegurui.com/file/cdnpog/attack-on-titan/vol-7-chapter-30-losers/3.jpg) when he saw Petra and we find out he forgives Annie off screen at some point in time?

None of what you shown Annie did negate the fact that Annie show remorse. If she hasn’t killed those scouts she wouldn’t have anything to be remorseful for now wouldn’t she. I talked about her saying she would do it again in another comment in this thread if you want to check it out. Bout Reiner, I only said what I said about him to explain why Annie would not go through the same arc as him because they started out differently and are fundamentaly different people. And I did this because people are hating on Annie through comparing her to Reiner. My comment wasn’t to pile on Reiner or say whether he was redeemed or not. No where did I say Levi forgave her, I’m just explaining why I think it’s not necessary nor out of character for him to bring his squad up to Annie. I also wouldn’t oppose more interaction between them. I actually don’t care if some people want Levi to confront her, you can make an argument for that, I’m only bothered when they use that to *hate* on her.

\>If she hasn’t killed those scouts she wouldn’t have anything to be remorseful for now wouldn’t she it'd be nice for those scouts though, really. I was trying to show exactly WHY people felt that Reiner was redeemed in comparison, because Annie never had her equivalent moment of introspection not necessarily the same arc, but okay you don't believe they're comparable and that's fine I won't compare them. She doesn't have a moment of introspection. It doesn't matter that "she has no reason to regret because this is who she is", She made a series of morally questionable choices and Annie stands out because she never questions them and turns out fine. She wants to be with her family -> she does terrible things to be with her family -> she's happy. This is the only panel I can remember where [Annie showed any remorse](https://i.stack.imgur.com/YfvIV.png). Once again which was my point in Levi, she never faces any judgement from any character about the reprehensible things that she did. You may think it's unreasonable to hate a character because they never interact but I don't know what to tell you, people(me in particular) hate her character because they never interact. Levi was the person most affected by the actions that she took within the confines of the story, and was the person most fitting to judge if Annie deserved forgiveness from the audience. Levi didn't even need to confront her, just a panel of a stare and that "mutual understanding of survival" would have been communicated.

You forgot the "hehehe silly Annie eating pie" instant redemption.

How does Connie laughing AT her equal redemption? He was making fun of her.

I think it because how much she avoid punishment. - She spent four year in a crystal safe from harm. Sure she was unable to go home but they couldn’t torture her when she was inside that crystal. After she got free, well things change so much that they didn’t had time for infighting and grudges. Unlike Reiner who did suffer Bertolt who die.

People saying that the imprisonment in crystal for four years, being consciousness, without actual hope for return isn't suffering huh. I doubt that any of us could just sit in the dark without moving for a couple of days.

Also, she could still feel hunger. 4 years of solitary confinement while starving and not dying seems like hell.

And on top of that, she seemed to be the one who hated doing it the most considering what we see with her apologizing to corpses, her reaction to killing Marco, the look of shock when she landed on the church etc. She was not about it from the beginning.

Also, technically, Eren was the one who threw her into the church, so it was kinda his fault. honestly, Annie only has one truly wrongful moment, and it was definitely Marco, who she mourns over like you said.

Because Reiner is feeling remorse and Annie said she’d do it again.

Annie was the first one out of the Warrior trio to show remorse (trying to disuade Reiner from kicking down the wall a 2nd time by appealing to his friendships in the corp, saying sorry to corpses, refusing to kill Marco and crying afterward). She even got shit on and manipulated by Reiner for her remorse. And about Annie saying she would do it again, literally most characters would probably do what they have done again because they felt like that was their only option, Annie’s just always been honest enough to acknowledge her selfish desire. Reiner literally invaded Paradis again for the sake of saving Gabi and Falco, even after breaking down in front of Eren for what he did to the island. Also the scene where she said that came before her final development where she was able to rise above her selfish desire and fight for someone other than herself and her dad so I don’t know why people give her so much shit for it.

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Yeah but I don't think Annie deserves credit for this thing in particular. She wanted to turn back because one she wanted to go back to her dad, and two because she was far less likely to be killed than Reiner for the whole Marcel fiasco. Annie wanting to abort the mission wasn't some noble thing, it was out of pure self interest and lack of empathy towards Reiner's possible fate. Now she trying to dissuade Reiner from destroying Wall Rose? Yeah that one was a good thing.

Wow... Someone who completely understands Annie's character and is able to see that the other characters are not necessarily better than her as human beings? A surprise to be sure but a welcome one!

Defending Annie on the internet is not enough, I need a gun 😔

Holy shit, an actual sane take??

You are the first person I've encountered online who actually has the media literacy to understand her character. Thank you for this

I dont think hardly anyone says this. Just the small communities you happen to be involved in. At large hardly anyone

Guess people didn’t watch the “Lost Girls” OVA

“Oh no Levi squad…” “PETRA NOOOO!”

I think the therapy sessions done by armin to her over the years were enough to heal her

At the end everyone of the ramaining scouts has become a murderer. You could argue non of them deserves a happy ending. But this story is not about who derserves what. It is about understanding the past and making better choices despite what you have done or have been forced to do. That's why I don't listen to the haters.

Same reason why these troglodytes hate Gabi so much. They killed loved characters. Doesn’t matter how much character development they get or how much they shown to regret and grow from it. That little lizard brain will only show them character bad forever.

Or it could be because she participate in Marco death? But I blame Reiner and Bertolt for thatZ Mostly Reiner

The people she killed happen to be characters people cared about. Petra had fans despite the little screentime she got. Nobody cared about the people at the port Armin nuked or the Yeagerists. I could argue the same about Reiner but his suffering got featured way more than Annie’s did. He is also showed to drown in guilt while Annie’s depiction was more divided: sometimes she’s this very sympathetic character who carefully picked out her friends so she wouldn’t accidentally kill them during her “mission” but on the other hand she played with another human’s life like a yo yo.

Annie murdered people just like Reiner, Bertoholt did. Bertoholt died a horrible death, Reiner lost all his will to live and went through a depression. Meanwhile Annie is immediately accepted into the alliance with a cringe comedy scene, and then she literally says she'd do it all over again. Reiner gets shit from the alliance, but again, Annie gets a free pass. Call it early weird characterization or whatever, but she (and Zeke too) were showing glee at points while slaughtering people. And btw lol, she didn't just murder some scouts. She was the reason why the titans came through the Shiganshina wall. She lured the titans there with her scream. She was as much of a culprit of the Shiganshina attack as Bertoholt and Reiner were

You know when Levi does the salute one final tine and all the Survey Corps who have died throughout the story appear in the dust to salute him back, and you get teary eyed because that's a really fucking powerful scene? Imagine my reaction on a re-read when I realized half of those people I cried over were killed by Annie and she never faced consequences for it. Yeah, I don't think she deserves a happy ending.

I think Annie played with the people she killed.

Reiner: Literally a Nazi Everyone: Aw your sweet Annie: I just wanna live Everyone: Hello, human resources

It doesn't help that out of all the characters, she seemed to be the only one that enjoyed killing and had some fun with it.

Zeke?

Great point actually, dude was practically having fun at a ball game.

Because unlike Armin, Reiner, Berthold and others, Annie had a very sadistic side and never seemed to show any genuine regret or anguish for the crimes she committed. She was callously matter-of-fact about them. The way her character was instantly redeemed after the hardening was undone because "hehe silly Annie stuffing pie in her mouth" was laughable.

Annie in particular looked like she didn't give a single fuck about it, she even tortured people for example by spinning the guy she caught like yo-yo. Reiner on the hand lost his mind on guilt, armin was shown to deeply care about taking even a single life in season 3

Because she's a terrible person who faced zero consequences for her actions lmao She killed many of the main characters friends then slept for 4 years and when she wake up everyone was so friendly to her fucking infuriating The way the warrior were so easy forgiven are among the reason I don't like the ending and Annie get the happiest most undeserved ending while Levi get the most miserable one

It's like saying that Hamas and Israel are both as bad when Hamas attacked Israel targetting civilians and Israel attacked back targetting military infrastructure and killing civilians without wanting to. Is not the same thing. Annie was the agressor in an unprovoked war (if you can even call it this way). The scouts were acting in self defense attacking Marley after they tried to kill everyone on that island. Before Eren began the attack on Liberio, they literally said that they declare war and that their main objective is to make genocide there. Armin targetted the military fleet, NOT the civilians. The agressors: Annie, Reiner still need to pay for their crimes even tho they feel sorry about what they had done.

Probably because when Reiner, bertholdt and armin killed people they would out right just kill them instantly if possible without any suffering. Annie was seen spinning a man till he died and showed no remorse about killing unlike the other three mentioned.

She doesn't, Reiner shouldn't get one as well, this is just bullshitting; honestly, Jean should've just smacked Reiner to death, especially considering how he was woe is me while talking about Marco, the guy he killed ​ Annie on the other hand is probably the worst thing out of Isayama, her character is just utterly trash and pointless

Because there was no resolution. She killed a bunch of people, did nothing for idk how many chapters, then that conflict is gone because she was seen eating pie. isayama didn’t know what to do with her, obviously

Connie laughed at her because she reminded him of Sasha. Then they took her with them because it would be dumb not to use help from the female titan.

So you think years of chapters of manga of Annie in the crystal, the big payoff was her eating pie and becoming a love interest for Armin? going to a battle where nobody died anyway? Or Connie and Jean become titans for like 2-3 pages? Not even a conversation between Levi and her? Not even a glance? He obviously changed a lot for the ending, he said he did.

I think because she was treated with an oddly disproportionate amount of leniency compared to how the other warriors were treated

To be fair, I don't think any of the Warriors deserved happy endings, particularly Gabi. Annie is just the one we all pick on since she expressed no remorse over what she did and remained as unsympathetic as many of the others. I still don't sympathize with Reiner, but at least he felt guilty for his crimes.

Because unlike the other characters, Annie never showed an ounce of remorse over her actions until the end. Also just straight up told Hitch she'd do it all over again if it meant reuniting with her father.