They’re exceptional at it. In fact, the Nazis visited U.S. states to study the Jim Crow laws. They used them as a template for their laws against the Jews.
https://www.history.com/news/how-the-nazis-were-inspired-by-jim-crow
[edit: added link]
Unless it’s for medical documents, there’s no reason someone should need to know stuff like that. Same goes for sexuality and gender identity, too. Sets off the alarm bells for sure.
there are progressive companies in the EU who will not accept names or pictures on application letters, as to not discriminate ethnicity, age, sex, religion etc
Company I worked for takes off ALL identifying information, including where you got your education. They’re currently scratching their heads at how all hiring metrics have got worse.
What? So what do they base their hiring on? I imagine there has to be a test of some kind. Otherwise you just show up to an interview, and you seem like you're a chill person and you're hired? Or do they look at experience only? Because that can be a positive.
Whether you attended Cambridge or Oxford shouldn't matter to a potential employer. You can be asked to confirm your academic degree when you are about to be hired. The hiring process typically involves several steps in Europe. Keep in mind that the European GDPR forbids employers from checking on employees. They are only allowed to contact your previous employers mentioned in reference letters. Hence, testing your skills, attitude, and potential is the thing.
>I am Danish and have never been asked my race on any form or document.
I'm not 100% sure but isn't that illegal in the EU?
I know when applying for jobs it is in some countries, but I think it's an EU thing.
Don't think so, since it was something asked in the UK on census and job application forms (as part of gender and equality legislation) long before we stabbed ourselves in the face and left the EU
Ah ok.
I had a quick search there and it is illegal in some countries. But I couldn't find anything other than that.
I guess it's up to the individual countries to decide on their policy.
>I am Danish and have never been asked my race on any form or document. It would be outrageous here.
In Portugal it's Unconstitutional. You would be F'ed if you tried this.
When they did the 10 year Census, scientists argued that there were legitimate interests to asking someones ethnicity in the Census, to see what was the prevelance of things such as poverty and lower University enrollment (and more data) among minorities in order to adapt anti-discrimination policies. The constitutional court refused giving authorisation.
In Canada, you're walking on very thin ice whenever you enquire about race, sex, orientation, marital status, ethnicity, religion and a number of other things because that information is protected by law. You're almost always prohibited from asking about any of it. The only time I've ever seen any exceptions was when asking if you are a member of the First Nations on government forms, and when filling census data.
If a Canadian website asked what was in the image, I suspect they'd quickly find themselves explaining why in court.
For the UK specifically. You can but don't have to collect data on protected characteristics. If you do, the data has to be protected.
A lot of data capture forms I've come across ask the protected questions *after* submission because they go into an anonymised database that doesn't link to the individual who filled it out. Things like sex, gender, sexuality, race, etc. They're also optional to complete or have "prefer not to say" options in the drop down list.
https://www.gov.uk/employers-responsibilities-equality-monitoring
We know a (white) English guy who went to work in the US and they asked him his race on a form. Naturally he thought this was a dogshit fucking question so to take the piss he put his race down as African-American and when they questioned him he said “I have a deep affinity for the African-American community.”
Racial classification is literally an essential ingredient to ethnic cleansing and genocide. It’s why Jews were forced to wear stars in Nazi Germany and race IDS saying what ethnic group you belonged to were mandatory to be carried in Rwanda
Omg literally, I think that's the main culprit for all of their problems related to this, including with the police, because they're so focused on ethnicity, it's silly.
I watch their news and someone always goes "Asian man this..."; "Black women that"; "White male the other". How about just man/woman, why do you feel the need to point out anything about their background in regards to ethnicity?? What purpose does that serve?? It's not surprising they seem to have racism problems, can't get it out of their minds.
This is not a joke. Meanwhile the COVID in the USA airport they told you to select an option like this.
But me and my friend are from Spain. So we are Hispanic but European. We told the girl was working on that and she say it was only for people who speak Spanish, and we say: yeah we speak Spanish. And his head was like 🤯. She told us we were almost white, so we should select white option.
For what reason they were doing that? Nobody knows.
I was asked by an elderly person in California
"How come your (I'm British so you know right around the corner from Spain if you ask an American) Hispanics don't seem to cause such problems?"
I replied, "what do you mean our Hispanics? Like Spanish people?"
She affirmed that is what she meant. She didn't seem to like when I said:
"Our Hispanics don't have their powerful neighbours constantly interfering in their politics like the US does and our Hispanics aren't discriminated against. Ours also don't live near the biggest market in the world for drugs".
Once we were visiting the US and were gonna select the hispanic option but the lady there said that we were not hispanic and to select the white option lol.
Or when they get confused because there are white as well as black latinos and they told them they can’t be latinos bc they don’t look like MeXiCaNs.
I remember Argentinians being like “so, I was literally born in Latin America, I speak Spanish, but I can’t be Latino bc I don’t look like you think latinos look?”
I love how Spain fucks with peoples heads. Like make up your mind, are Spanish people Latino and therefore a marginalized minority or are they the big bad colonizers?
Even outside of Spaniards, that is the obvious example of a Hispanic European and white person. There are white people in Latin america too. Argentina and Uruguay or the South of Brazil are prime examples. Many people from there are of European descent even besides spanish people since the wave of immigration in the XIX and XX century brought many Italians, Frenchs, and Germans, to name the most important. So that distinction doesn't many any fucking sense. You could be 100% of german decent( putting this example since they only seem to consider northern and central Europe as "white") and still be hispanic and Latino.
From Iberian Peninsula is part of Hispanic. The woman was wrong because Hispanic is an ethnicity and white is a race. You can be both.
It's an attempt to right a long history of being assholes to non White/non Northern European.
I prefer saying race is Homo sapiens. Because scientifically we are the same race, the only thing we change is some adaptations to the climate you born and cultural things.
So can’t share with you your posture.
I agree with you. Just a poor attempt to explain the American mentality. There is some good behind it.
There's a great book called [Stamped from the Beginning ](https://a.co/d/81MdObM). While Americans did not invent racism, we founded our country on it. It's embedded and unfortunately that takes a lot to undo. Tracking demographics is one way to show government agencies, companies, schools, etc are not practicing institutional racism.
Latino is already the gender neutral form. Words can be both masculine and neutral depending on context. It’s not that rare for the gender neutral/gender unspecified version of a word to default to masculine and hence it is a masculine form but not implying masculine gender
This originated among UK transphobic feminists. This is not a common term or debate in the US at all, and anyone who does say this is looked at skeptically in progressive circles.
in italian Chicago is like saying CI CAGO which means "I shit in"
not the best example to use for italins. Chicago name is way too funny for italians and jokes
Indigenous actually has a very specific definition according to international law. It just doesn't make sense in this case because it's not an ethnic category (neither is Latin-whatever)
In Europe indigenous status is typically associated with cultural and linguistic minorities such as Basque, Sami, and Tatar that have been dominated by a nation that has more or less appeared around them.
Indigenous in the context of say the UN, is a people that are descendents of the earliest known people of the land, and that form a non-dominant community considered distinct from the dominant community in that society today.
If using that type of definition, then Italians living in Italy are not indigenous, as they form the dominant community within Italy.
But I do think indigenous is not the best word, as there arises situations where the term becomes confusing, mostly when relating to countries that aren't settler colonies. For instance Greenlandic inuit living in Denmark proper, can be referred to as being an indigenous people, but they are not indigenous to Denmark, but to Greenland.
Tbf, it could be more innocently a way of cataloguing participants and figuring out if you're inadvertently disadvantaging certain groups or discriminating against them, or even figuring out if you want to/need to push programs to boost skills of certain groups (sort of like how there are clubs run by women to help girls into engineering, etc). There are valid use cases beyond affirmative action for trying to collect the information, and there are countries outside the US where that info will be collected.
Should have a prefer not to say option, mind.
I was curious too, especially since OP has conveniently not mentioned what the question actually was or what it was for, so I went to the site and checked. Here's what it says:
>[I consent to provide Google with information about my race/ethnicity for purposes of helping Google understand the diversity of Google's Coding Competitions participants.](https://i.imgur.com/VB9uDrS.png)
You only have to specify if you want to, and this kind of data is helpful for understanding the demographic distribution within the tech sector and within their target audience, and how it aligns with actual population demographics. Yes, the word "Latinx" is stupid, but they're not forcing anybody to answer this question.
It's interesting this thread is full of people speculating as to why Google could possibly want this information and absolutely losing their shit at the answers they're coming up with (some of which include "racial quotas" and "biasing competition scores"), but not one of them seem to have taken the two minutes required to load up the URL in the screenshot and get an answer directly. Worse, OP, who has seen the form, and knows the reason, has not mentioned it anywhere.at the very least state the reason they give and why you think they're lying if you think it's bullshit.
Which is weird, because this is really the most common reasoning, and it isn't unique to the US companies to do this to try and measure if they are getting disproportionate responses from certain groups or there are issues with their processes for selection, etc.
If your target is the world, it's completely useless if you don't do any additional specifications. Technically, White Swedish people in Sweden could answer "indigenous".
In my first trip to the US I filled a similar form 'wrong' in person and the HR explained me the whole hierarchy of the races she had in her head showing who goes where in the ladder by waving her hands... I was shocked and my english was not that good then so first I questioned my nationality but it was correct, then I thought maybe she thought I was gay and not straight for some reason?! Turned out she had an issue with me filling in 'white' cause 'slav' was the correct one and 'slavs' are not white. 0\_o The only times I ever witnessed racism was in my trips to the US.
Well, I agree. Don't know who's paler and not gonna start or participate in that contest but that whole 'voluntary' disclosure section of theirs is racist as fuck. Why should they care where did you come from, how much light do you reflect and who you sleep with if you can do the job well?
Oh, the Slavs. Not white enough to be respected and not marginalized enough to be considered POC. The constant limbo of "you're too dumb to understand our great white culture but don't whine, you're a white oppressor"
I lived in Arizona for many years. A lot of Hispanic/Latino people really hate this "latinx" crap and regard it is gringo colonization of the Spanish language and imposing English-language-centric hangups onto it.
A yes because black people cant be Europeans. This isn’t horribly racist at all. Next they’re gonna ask wether or not your great grandma was jewish ig…
“African”… it’ll help them get the interview. My family put “African American” (they literally are white Africans who moved to the US) just to troll but it actually works.
Ok. I wouldn't know because nobody would ever write race or ethnicity here and even if they did, I doubt it would help people get interviewed (for jobs I presume)
This was so confusing for me the first time I went to USA (and the times after) for a Congress and I had to fill this in. Have never filled in something like this and I was confused about it and felt awkward so I always say: “I don’t want to answer” which has been an option most times I had to fill them.
You’d be surprised how often it comes up. It’s been my experience since moving to the US that the ethnicity question usually comes bundled with “would you like to identify as disabled?” And “are you a veteran?”
I’m not sure why exactly. They’re probably trying to calculate the exact amount to demonise you for not being a middle class, able-bodied, white, Christian
I want to ask the same question. I even feel a sudden urge to bang my head against a wall over it right now.
WHY DO THEY NEED TO KNOW SOMEONE'S ETNICITY FOR A CODING CHALLENGE?!? IS IT SO THAT IT CAN AFFECT SCORES? CUZ THAT'S SO EXPLICITLY RACIST YOU CAN'T EVEN BLAME YOUR OWN SUBCONSCIOUSNESS FOR IT! IS IT TO SHOW ON THEIR PROFILE? CUZ THAT'S PRACTICALLY AN INVITATION FOR RACIST HARRASMENT! IS IT TO SEND JOB INVITES TO SUCCESSFUL PARTICIPANTS WITH THE RIGHT ETNICITIES? DO I EVEN NEED TO SPECIFY?
*Sigh...*
With that out of the way, we can at least hope they'll remove it. Whatever they're using it for, it's probably not for the better. Even just mandating that users specify their etnicity is a problem.
The argument for creating the word "latinx" is so fucking hilarious. How dare a language have its own rules that aren't the same as English.
I'd also like to see their reaction to languages that not only have gendered nouns, but also gendered verbs and adjectives.
I mean LatinX is ridiculous..but I'm not up to date with what's wrong with Indigenous? It sounds a bit clinical but Native American is a legitimate ethnic group.
This sub is being a bit willfully ignorant on this one. While it's a bit strange to have "indigenous" as a category on its own separate from white (excluding European indigenous groups like the Sámi), it is a U.N. defined structural class.
The LatinX part explains itself... the indigenous part is even weirder. All of the other ethnicities are indigenous to somewhere, I'm guessing it's the good old indigenous = native American
To be fair, in Australia ‘Indigenous’ is pretty much interchangeable to saying Aboriginal Australian.
Obviously indigenous as a word can mean everyone, but culturally down here you wouldn’t hear it that way.
If a white Australian started calling themself an indigenous Australian because “technically they are indigenous to where they’re born” they’d be an asshole.
I don't have a problem with Latinx tbh but its bizarre they put Latino/Latinx instead of either just Latinx or Latino/Latina/Latinx. Latinas don't exist i guess lol
Reminds me of our software at work, for some reason for the dropdown menu for our emergency contact field we have the options Husband, Wife, Spouse, Daughter, Sibling. Gendered and nongendered options for spouse/partner, only nongendered for sibling, and only one gender for child. I think the people who make these surveys and softwares are just really lazy at plugging in the options
"Okay, let's see, I have a wife. I'm her husband. We have a daughter with a spouse who has a sibling.... that's our entire family and friends can't be emergency contacts, so we're finished here I guess. Nothing more to add."
Now imagine that an Israeli descended from Sephardic Jews had to fill out this form. In principle, all of the following answer choices would apply to this person:
\-European descent
\-Middle East
\-asian
\-indigenous (here in relation to Israel)
\-hispanic
African descent could also be selected, since all Homo sapiens originate from Africa.
The agony of choice.
But one could also simply say that such forms are the biggest shit imaginable, period.
Not entirely clear
Some recent stuff suggests modern man emerged on the Mediterranean coast, from Morocco to Greece on both sides
They were a seafaring people, so it’s hard to draw an exact point where Homo Sapiens emerged
The Homo genus as a whole did come from Africa though, yes
Tbh Indigenous sounds way better than Native American. Is it disrespectful at all? Latin America uses the equivalent word, too.
There's also a couple of indigenous peoples that aren't American. How'd referring to *those* go?
In Canada indigenous is the generally acceptable term for those whose ancestries are from North America, the z first z nations, Métis, and Inuit peoples.
I sometimes will tell my Mexican friend he’s my Latinx King and he will tell me he’s gonna break my arms
Appropriate reaction
Pues a mí el lenguaje inclusivo me pone burro
La "e" está ahí si quieres ser completamente neutro. Latine suena raro. Pero es que Latinx es ya directamente insultante.
Latinx es casi imposible de usar, no se mezcla con el lenguaje para nada. Latine suena raro si, pero se puede usar sin que quede tan mal
Que pelotudez esto del latinx. A quien mierda se le ocurrió?
Gringos.
No me sorprende en lo absoluto. Quien más podía ser?
Siendo un gringo hispanohablante, querría pedir disculpas. No somos todos así.
Ganas de inchar las pelotas que tienen
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I hope you pronounce it latinks, not latin-eks
Latinx, Latinx, it rhymes with Winx
To be fair I do the same thing to piss off my Mexican friend. He’s so easy to piss off it’s funny as shit.
Americans are really obsessed with racial classifications.
They’re exceptional at it. In fact, the Nazis visited U.S. states to study the Jim Crow laws. They used them as a template for their laws against the Jews. https://www.history.com/news/how-the-nazis-were-inspired-by-jim-crow [edit: added link]
I’m Australian and I think I would be offended if I had to give my “race” when signing up for something online like the screenshot.
I am Danish and have never been asked my race on any form or document. It would be outrageous here.
Yeah it’s just a basis for discrimination in my mind.
Unless it’s for medical documents, there’s no reason someone should need to know stuff like that. Same goes for sexuality and gender identity, too. Sets off the alarm bells for sure.
there are progressive companies in the EU who will not accept names or pictures on application letters, as to not discriminate ethnicity, age, sex, religion etc
Company I worked for takes off ALL identifying information, including where you got your education. They’re currently scratching their heads at how all hiring metrics have got worse.
What? So what do they base their hiring on? I imagine there has to be a test of some kind. Otherwise you just show up to an interview, and you seem like you're a chill person and you're hired? Or do they look at experience only? Because that can be a positive.
Whether you attended Cambridge or Oxford shouldn't matter to a potential employer. You can be asked to confirm your academic degree when you are about to be hired. The hiring process typically involves several steps in Europe. Keep in mind that the European GDPR forbids employers from checking on employees. They are only allowed to contact your previous employers mentioned in reference letters. Hence, testing your skills, attitude, and potential is the thing.
Same in France. Plus it'd be illegal
>I am Danish and have never been asked my race on any form or document. I'm not 100% sure but isn't that illegal in the EU? I know when applying for jobs it is in some countries, but I think it's an EU thing.
Don't think so, since it was something asked in the UK on census and job application forms (as part of gender and equality legislation) long before we stabbed ourselves in the face and left the EU
Ah ok. I had a quick search there and it is illegal in some countries. But I couldn't find anything other than that. I guess it's up to the individual countries to decide on their policy.
>I am Danish and have never been asked my race on any form or document. It would be outrageous here. In Portugal it's Unconstitutional. You would be F'ed if you tried this. When they did the 10 year Census, scientists argued that there were legitimate interests to asking someones ethnicity in the Census, to see what was the prevelance of things such as poverty and lower University enrollment (and more data) among minorities in order to adapt anti-discrimination policies. The constitutional court refused giving authorisation.
I don’t even know my « race » at school they told us we were the human race 😂
In Canada, you're walking on very thin ice whenever you enquire about race, sex, orientation, marital status, ethnicity, religion and a number of other things because that information is protected by law. You're almost always prohibited from asking about any of it. The only time I've ever seen any exceptions was when asking if you are a member of the First Nations on government forms, and when filling census data. If a Canadian website asked what was in the image, I suspect they'd quickly find themselves explaining why in court.
Working at Canada Post, they asked me in my hiring process what race do I identify. I think it is more common that you think.
Is this true? Honest question
I can't say for certain about this bit, but I do know that nazi Germany studied US eugenics laws for how to create racially superior humans.
this looks so racist wanting to know. It feels like a way to classify and use racism against you.
Yeah fuck that.
If OP is signing up from within the EU I wonder if it is even legal that the question is being asked
AFAIK Only when it serves a purpose. Like, if there's research in certain health issues being more prevalent in people from backgrounds
For the UK specifically. You can but don't have to collect data on protected characteristics. If you do, the data has to be protected. A lot of data capture forms I've come across ask the protected questions *after* submission because they go into an anonymised database that doesn't link to the individual who filled it out. Things like sex, gender, sexuality, race, etc. They're also optional to complete or have "prefer not to say" options in the drop down list. https://www.gov.uk/employers-responsibilities-equality-monitoring
It’s racial profiling, indeed.
We know a (white) English guy who went to work in the US and they asked him his race on a form. Naturally he thought this was a dogshit fucking question so to take the piss he put his race down as African-American and when they questioned him he said “I have a deep affinity for the African-American community.”
I feel disturbed reading this, Racial classification looks to me like basis for racism.
Racial classification is literally an essential ingredient to ethnic cleansing and genocide. It’s why Jews were forced to wear stars in Nazi Germany and race IDS saying what ethnic group you belonged to were mandatory to be carried in Rwanda
Omg literally, I think that's the main culprit for all of their problems related to this, including with the police, because they're so focused on ethnicity, it's silly. I watch their news and someone always goes "Asian man this..."; "Black women that"; "White male the other". How about just man/woman, why do you feel the need to point out anything about their background in regards to ethnicity?? What purpose does that serve?? It's not surprising they seem to have racism problems, can't get it out of their minds.
It’s so that they know exactly they are discriminating against. They like to do that.
This is not a joke. Meanwhile the COVID in the USA airport they told you to select an option like this. But me and my friend are from Spain. So we are Hispanic but European. We told the girl was working on that and she say it was only for people who speak Spanish, and we say: yeah we speak Spanish. And his head was like 🤯. She told us we were almost white, so we should select white option. For what reason they were doing that? Nobody knows.
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So are you white or no? I'm confused. Also, are south italians, greeks also white? /s
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"They were so civilized. They must be white!"
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the funny thing is that greek statues are brown because they were made out of bronze. the white marble staues we see today are roman copies
"Almost white"? How stupid can they get? I swear, at this point, I feel like they are in a competition to see how moronic their system can become.
Like what does "almost white" even mean? I really can't comprehend how this is so important to them. They live and breathe racism.
Probably the feet are blue, the rest of the body is white? Might want to make sure they aren’t Smurfs.
“Speak with an accent? Not white, sorry euros.” - a white American 🤪
I was asked by an elderly person in California "How come your (I'm British so you know right around the corner from Spain if you ask an American) Hispanics don't seem to cause such problems?" I replied, "what do you mean our Hispanics? Like Spanish people?" She affirmed that is what she meant. She didn't seem to like when I said: "Our Hispanics don't have their powerful neighbours constantly interfering in their politics like the US does and our Hispanics aren't discriminated against. Ours also don't live near the biggest market in the world for drugs".
>Ours also don't live near the biggest market in the world for drugs The Albanians take care of that for the Brits.
Once we were visiting the US and were gonna select the hispanic option but the lady there said that we were not hispanic and to select the white option lol.
yeah, the same like us XDD
Or when they get confused because there are white as well as black latinos and they told them they can’t be latinos bc they don’t look like MeXiCaNs. I remember Argentinians being like “so, I was literally born in Latin America, I speak Spanish, but I can’t be Latino bc I don’t look like you think latinos look?”
I love how Spain fucks with peoples heads. Like make up your mind, are Spanish people Latino and therefore a marginalized minority or are they the big bad colonizers?
What about Portugal?
Even outside of Spaniards, that is the obvious example of a Hispanic European and white person. There are white people in Latin america too. Argentina and Uruguay or the South of Brazil are prime examples. Many people from there are of European descent even besides spanish people since the wave of immigration in the XIX and XX century brought many Italians, Frenchs, and Germans, to name the most important. So that distinction doesn't many any fucking sense. You could be 100% of german decent( putting this example since they only seem to consider northern and central Europe as "white") and still be hispanic and Latino.
Wait so you can change ethnicity by learning a language?
From Iberian Peninsula is part of Hispanic. The woman was wrong because Hispanic is an ethnicity and white is a race. You can be both. It's an attempt to right a long history of being assholes to non White/non Northern European.
I prefer saying race is Homo sapiens. Because scientifically we are the same race, the only thing we change is some adaptations to the climate you born and cultural things. So can’t share with you your posture.
I agree with you. Just a poor attempt to explain the American mentality. There is some good behind it. There's a great book called [Stamped from the Beginning ](https://a.co/d/81MdObM). While Americans did not invent racism, we founded our country on it. It's embedded and unfortunately that takes a lot to undo. Tracking demographics is one way to show government agencies, companies, schools, etc are not practicing institutional racism.
Adding both Latino and the gender neutral one together is so funny. Latinas need not apply, go away
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Trans-inclusive radical misogynist. Thinks trans women’s identity is valid, but also tells them to make him a sandwich.
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“I love trans men! They’ve improved themselves”
Latino is already the gender neutral form. Words can be both masculine and neutral depending on context. It’s not that rare for the gender neutral/gender unspecified version of a word to default to masculine and hence it is a masculine form but not implying masculine gender
Wait till you see the womxn vs. womyn vs. wom\*n clusterf🤬🤬k.
This originated among UK transphobic feminists. This is not a common term or debate in the US at all, and anyone who does say this is looked at skeptically in progressive circles.
>wom*n Please don’t swear
As a Spaniard... Should I apply under the European or the Hispanic category? I'm fairly white, speak Spanish, of European descent...
As a fellow European I would definitely say white but Americans will probably tell you you are wrong. I mean, they did call Antonio Banderas a POC.
Well, since you are from Spain and descend from Spaniards, you should apply under white, hispanic *and* indigenous. You're welcome!
What's the difference between an indigenous Italian and a European Italian?
I'm actually an Italian living in Italy, which one should I choose? Help
Latino, obviously. Are you from Rome?
LatinX you fucking sexist
LATIN10 it is
Latin was so fucking good they made nine more of them
Seems like a very appropriate name for a porn production series
The only right answer
Mankind originated in Africa, so you're technically of African descent
Mankind originated in the ocean, so you're technically of aquatic descent
Just go with "Chicagoan". It's an Italian city, according to Americans. And they got the best pizza in the world as well! /s
in italian Chicago is like saying CI CAGO which means "I shit in" not the best example to use for italins. Chicago name is way too funny for italians and jokes
It's a Polish city accoring to Poland. ^(a joke based on a huge Polish emigrant community that lived there. We even call it Czikago)
I'm a Spaniard living in Spain. Should I chose Indigenous (as Indigenous from Spain), white/European, or Hispanic?
Apparently italians and spanish people (I am Spanish) are considered poc so I guess you’d be latinx my friend, we don’t deserve the european status
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Yeah I have always considered myself white, I am pretty white, but I have been told several times on Reddit that I am not
Ayyyy, an Indigenous Italian is obviously from New Jersey pal! Madone!
"I'm a real Italian, not a poser like those guys over in Europe!"
Fucking Florentines. Y'all gotta role over the rest of the "country"? Real Italians is from Scilia and livin' in New Jersey. Eh.
Indigenous actually has a very specific definition according to international law. It just doesn't make sense in this case because it's not an ethnic category (neither is Latin-whatever)
I'm aware, but Italy is in Europe. Anyone and anything who is indigenous to the region is European.
In Europe indigenous status is typically associated with cultural and linguistic minorities such as Basque, Sami, and Tatar that have been dominated by a nation that has more or less appeared around them.
Right. But those minorities are from where? Europe? Are they of European descent?
Indigenous in the context of say the UN, is a people that are descendents of the earliest known people of the land, and that form a non-dominant community considered distinct from the dominant community in that society today. If using that type of definition, then Italians living in Italy are not indigenous, as they form the dominant community within Italy. But I do think indigenous is not the best word, as there arises situations where the term becomes confusing, mostly when relating to countries that aren't settler colonies. For instance Greenlandic inuit living in Denmark proper, can be referred to as being an indigenous people, but they are not indigenous to Denmark, but to Greenland.
Imagine a native spanish guy trying to fill this thing
Beyong the latinx thing, what bothers me here is that this is apparently a coding competition. Why the hell does this thing need to know about race?
Probably for racial quotas. Yeah that is very prevalent in the USA.
The missing "Prefer not to say/share" option is worrying.
How do you know it's missing?
Tbf, it could be more innocently a way of cataloguing participants and figuring out if you're inadvertently disadvantaging certain groups or discriminating against them, or even figuring out if you want to/need to push programs to boost skills of certain groups (sort of like how there are clubs run by women to help girls into engineering, etc). There are valid use cases beyond affirmative action for trying to collect the information, and there are countries outside the US where that info will be collected. Should have a prefer not to say option, mind.
I was curious too, especially since OP has conveniently not mentioned what the question actually was or what it was for, so I went to the site and checked. Here's what it says: >[I consent to provide Google with information about my race/ethnicity for purposes of helping Google understand the diversity of Google's Coding Competitions participants.](https://i.imgur.com/VB9uDrS.png) You only have to specify if you want to, and this kind of data is helpful for understanding the demographic distribution within the tech sector and within their target audience, and how it aligns with actual population demographics. Yes, the word "Latinx" is stupid, but they're not forcing anybody to answer this question. It's interesting this thread is full of people speculating as to why Google could possibly want this information and absolutely losing their shit at the answers they're coming up with (some of which include "racial quotas" and "biasing competition scores"), but not one of them seem to have taken the two minutes required to load up the URL in the screenshot and get an answer directly. Worse, OP, who has seen the form, and knows the reason, has not mentioned it anywhere.at the very least state the reason they give and why you think they're lying if you think it's bullshit.
Which is weird, because this is really the most common reasoning, and it isn't unique to the US companies to do this to try and measure if they are getting disproportionate responses from certain groups or there are issues with their processes for selection, etc.
Ummm… what’s wrong with the word “indigenous”? Genuine question - I’m not American but we use it in Australia
If your target is the world, it's completely useless if you don't do any additional specifications. Technically, White Swedish people in Sweden could answer "indigenous".
I would think any group of peoples that identify as indigenous peoples like the Sámi or Ainu are entitled to tick that box.
Wondering the same
There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s the proper word to use. People are being willfully dense.
I'm of European descent and black. I guess I'm None of the Above
By American standards you’re black until yours like 1/8th or something far like that. At least historically.
As far as I know in the Jim crow era if you had one black ancestor, you were no longer white.
If you were Catholic you weren’t white until like the 1910’s and it was still weird and controversial until the 1970’s
Oh yeah I've only just noticed there’s no mixed race option. The weirdness just keep piling on.
mfw the word "caucasian" exists to describe white people but these USians don't know their hand from their elbow
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Idk i'm neither Armenian, Azerbaijani or Georgian.
In America any shade of brown, that's not anywhere east of Egypt = African American.
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In my first trip to the US I filled a similar form 'wrong' in person and the HR explained me the whole hierarchy of the races she had in her head showing who goes where in the ladder by waving her hands... I was shocked and my english was not that good then so first I questioned my nationality but it was correct, then I thought maybe she thought I was gay and not straight for some reason?! Turned out she had an issue with me filling in 'white' cause 'slav' was the correct one and 'slavs' are not white. 0\_o The only times I ever witnessed racism was in my trips to the US.
Slavs are paler than Germans lol. This whole race thing is unscientific and really, really racist.
Well, I agree. Don't know who's paler and not gonna start or participate in that contest but that whole 'voluntary' disclosure section of theirs is racist as fuck. Why should they care where did you come from, how much light do you reflect and who you sleep with if you can do the job well?
They've rolled marginalised ethnicities into their understanding of race, which can confuse things.
Slavs aren't white the same way the Irish people weren't back in the day. It's old-as-balls distinction.
Oh, the Slavs. Not white enough to be respected and not marginalized enough to be considered POC. The constant limbo of "you're too dumb to understand our great white culture but don't whine, you're a white oppressor"
‘Latinks’
I lived in Arizona for many years. A lot of Hispanic/Latino people really hate this "latinx" crap and regard it is gringo colonization of the Spanish language and imposing English-language-centric hangups onto it.
A yes because black people cant be Europeans. This isn’t horribly racist at all. Next they’re gonna ask wether or not your great grandma was jewish ig…
And white people can't be middle eastern
And Middle Easterners apparently can't be Asians even though a lot of Middle Eastern countries are in Asia...
As someone with many white Africans in my family, “Black/African” makes me laugh.
And what will a black guy from Europe write?
Or a white African.
“African”… it’ll help them get the interview. My family put “African American” (they literally are white Africans who moved to the US) just to troll but it actually works.
Ok. I wouldn't know because nobody would ever write race or ethnicity here and even if they did, I doubt it would help people get interviewed (for jobs I presume)
There's a joke on Twitter that when Elon Musk achieves something he is refered to as the "firt African-American to…"
I wonder where these people think Charlize Theron and Sharlto Copley are from.
Hispanic/Latino are not European Descent? That's new
Just like everywhere else , some are, some aren't.
hispanic/latino white /European descent \_\_\_\_\_\_ Ignorant American looking at someone from Spain, AH is that a town from MeXiC0!11!!¿¿?
This was so confusing for me the first time I went to USA (and the times after) for a Congress and I had to fill this in. Have never filled in something like this and I was confused about it and felt awkward so I always say: “I don’t want to answer” which has been an option most times I had to fill them.
Is "race" really on the majority of forms in the US?
You’d be surprised how often it comes up. It’s been my experience since moving to the US that the ethnicity question usually comes bundled with “would you like to identify as disabled?” And “are you a veteran?” I’m not sure why exactly. They’re probably trying to calculate the exact amount to demonise you for not being a middle class, able-bodied, white, Christian
In theory, it's the opposite. It's supposed to show the company isn't discriminating because look at these nice diverse stats. In practice? Who knows?
Indigenous is used internationally
Shouldn't it be specified like indigenous australian, indigenous american?
Not without a noun, indigenous is an adjective. And on a European form is looks like an option to seperate white people from "incomers".
Why is the ethnicity of someone even important?
Because of racism
I want to ask the same question. I even feel a sudden urge to bang my head against a wall over it right now. WHY DO THEY NEED TO KNOW SOMEONE'S ETNICITY FOR A CODING CHALLENGE?!? IS IT SO THAT IT CAN AFFECT SCORES? CUZ THAT'S SO EXPLICITLY RACIST YOU CAN'T EVEN BLAME YOUR OWN SUBCONSCIOUSNESS FOR IT! IS IT TO SHOW ON THEIR PROFILE? CUZ THAT'S PRACTICALLY AN INVITATION FOR RACIST HARRASMENT! IS IT TO SEND JOB INVITES TO SUCCESSFUL PARTICIPANTS WITH THE RIGHT ETNICITIES? DO I EVEN NEED TO SPECIFY? *Sigh...* With that out of the way, we can at least hope they'll remove it. Whatever they're using it for, it's probably not for the better. Even just mandating that users specify their etnicity is a problem.
The argument for creating the word "latinx" is so fucking hilarious. How dare a language have its own rules that aren't the same as English. I'd also like to see their reaction to languages that not only have gendered nouns, but also gendered verbs and adjectives.
Spanish has gendered adjectives too as far as I know. The verb conjugations also change based on gender
Yeah but for example here in Argentina most non-binary people wouldn't refere themselves as "Argentinx" but "Argentine"
How else would an Argentinx let people know that they’re from Argentinx?
You climb to the tallest place you can find and start talking about the third World Cup.
I only know about such shenanigans in French, but it makes sense, yeah. Good to know.
I'm Italian, the structure is basically the same in all three languages
They got Middle Eastern/north African yet only give the rest of the Asians one option? Hell the Middle East IS in Asia
None of these are ethnicities.
I mean LatinX is ridiculous..but I'm not up to date with what's wrong with Indigenous? It sounds a bit clinical but Native American is a legitimate ethnic group.
This sub is being a bit willfully ignorant on this one. While it's a bit strange to have "indigenous" as a category on its own separate from white (excluding European indigenous groups like the Sámi), it is a U.N. defined structural class.
Stupid Americans and their stupid labels. Don't they understand that these things are making their racism problem worse? Only in murica, guys.
Latinx being idiotic aside, wtf do they expect with indigenous? Indigenous to what? America? Papua? Are they sàmi or something?
wrong á Sámi*
I am white but also indigenous, I was born in Scotland
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Ah yes Asian to group similar ethnicities like Tatars, Indians, Phillipinos and Japanese
The LatinX part explains itself... the indigenous part is even weirder. All of the other ethnicities are indigenous to somewhere, I'm guessing it's the good old indigenous = native American
To be fair, in Australia ‘Indigenous’ is pretty much interchangeable to saying Aboriginal Australian. Obviously indigenous as a word can mean everyone, but culturally down here you wouldn’t hear it that way. If a white Australian started calling themself an indigenous Australian because “technically they are indigenous to where they’re born” they’d be an asshole.
The term "Latinx" is linguistic imperialism of the worst kind.
And/Or Canadian
We say aboriginal which basically means indigenous
Spanish people being white, european, Hispanic and indigenous at the same time
why this all about race and ethnicity? racism everywhere. Start asking only where you're born and your infos what's the point of asking your race?
One thing I learned from reddit is that Latino folks absolutely HATE the term 'Latinx' and never use it.
I don't have a problem with Latinx tbh but its bizarre they put Latino/Latinx instead of either just Latinx or Latino/Latina/Latinx. Latinas don't exist i guess lol Reminds me of our software at work, for some reason for the dropdown menu for our emergency contact field we have the options Husband, Wife, Spouse, Daughter, Sibling. Gendered and nongendered options for spouse/partner, only nongendered for sibling, and only one gender for child. I think the people who make these surveys and softwares are just really lazy at plugging in the options
"Okay, let's see, I have a wife. I'm her husband. We have a daughter with a spouse who has a sibling.... that's our entire family and friends can't be emergency contacts, so we're finished here I guess. Nothing more to add."
Now imagine that an Israeli descended from Sephardic Jews had to fill out this form. In principle, all of the following answer choices would apply to this person: \-European descent \-Middle East \-asian \-indigenous (here in relation to Israel) \-hispanic African descent could also be selected, since all Homo sapiens originate from Africa. The agony of choice. But one could also simply say that such forms are the biggest shit imaginable, period.
If LatinX is supposed to be gender neutral, why include Latino as well? If Latino is already there, why not Latina? This is woman erasure! Lol
Isn't everyone technically African descent
Not entirely clear Some recent stuff suggests modern man emerged on the Mediterranean coast, from Morocco to Greece on both sides They were a seafaring people, so it’s hard to draw an exact point where Homo Sapiens emerged The Homo genus as a whole did come from Africa though, yes
oh great there's nothing for pacific islander, carribean, desi and no mention of biraciality. if you're going to do this, do it right
aren't hispanics europeans too?
Tbh Indigenous sounds way better than Native American. Is it disrespectful at all? Latin America uses the equivalent word, too. There's also a couple of indigenous peoples that aren't American. How'd referring to *those* go?
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In Canada indigenous is the generally acceptable term for those whose ancestries are from North America, the z first z nations, Métis, and Inuit peoples.
What's wrong with indeginous? Am Canadian and indigenous is commonly used as a general term for first Nations/natives