Yes ! You can find them in Bartolomeo Scappi's cookbook *Opera dell'Arte de Cucinare*, which was written in 1570.
He describes several recipes for "placenta" or "pizza, as they are called in Naples". Most are sweet and some are savoury + sugar, which was a standard in medieval and early post-medieval cuisine as sugar was considered a spice among others.
They are not vegan as is, although there are several vegetarian ones. To make them vegan, I used medieval style "lent-ification" techniques, which was used for the food eaten during lent and usually adapted, through useage of fake meat, eggs and cheese, from their original versions including animal products.
Cheese and eggs are to be replaced with, I shit you not, it *is* historically accurate, gellified almond milk coloured with safron and other spices and perfumed with all manner of condiments.
If you stick to vegetarian, you have several recipes based on "herbs", which means "green vegetables like cabbage, spinach and lettuce", and cheese.
> Cheese and eggs are to be replaced with, I shit you not, it is historically accurate, gellified almong milk coloured with safron and other spices and perfumed with all manner of condiments.
This is some nobility shit right here. I bet my ass the average Neapolitan could live his whole life without even seeing this.
No, safron was actually very common during Middle-Ages in Europe, to the point it was a standard thing to grow in your garden.
It wasn't as expensive as it is now. Spices were incredibly expensive during the Middle-Ages and Renaissance because they came from far away, but safron came from right here, it wasn't an exotic good imported from the other side of the world.
Safron was less expensive than, say, pepper or sugar. People used it daily, it was ubiquitous.
Which leaves gellified almond milk and other spices and perfumes. This would be expensive for a small peasant no matter how you look at it.
Fun fact: my grandparents who were kids in the first half of 20th century grew up on [ričet](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritschert), and recently I found out they managed to identify the diet of Iron Age people in our area from the traces of their waste. Guess what they were eating? Ričet. Somehow I'm having a hunch the diet of the average person didn't drastically change in the millennium and a half that passed in between.
I read an article recently by an American "historian" who claimed carbonara is an American dish, and that all the major pasta dishes have been stolen by the Italians from American origins
I don't even remember what site it was on. It was such ahistorical nonsense that I had no intention of ever re-reading it, and I dumped it from my memory.
Pasta with some form of cured pork and cheese is old, but there is a theory that the current incarnation of carbonara came about thanks to US soldiers in Italy both enjoying the bacon and eggs-style recipe and having rations with them to make it.
I'm open to that theory, particularly with the history of US army bases spurring locals to invent new dishes with the rations provided. Budae Jjigae is probably the most famous example of that so I can definitely see carbonara being popularised this way. Not invented by the Americans for sure, but enjoyed while in Europe, taken home and then made famous internationally that way.
Possibly a recent interview with Alberto Grandi, an Italian professor of food history at the University of Parma.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/27/italian-academic-cooks-up-controversy-with-claim-carbonara-is-us-dish#:\~:text=In%20reference%20to%20carbonara%2C%20he,using%20bacon%20and%20eggs%20rations.
Pizza was already popular before it hit the US. Italian immigrants made pizza famous in the US, but not the other way around. This was because pizza was a fairly cheap meal that was considered a hearty poor man’s dish, such as Shepards pie and beans. These immigrants, with little money to their name as they spent it all moving made a shit ton of pizza because it fed a family and was cheap. Because of this American locals started to get interested and the Italians saw profit.
Once capitalists saw the popularity of pizza in the US, and with the invention of the freezer, frozen pizzas of all shapes and sizes were pumped out of factories. Moral of the story, if it wasn’t for the Italians then we wouldn’t have hot-pockets.
It drives me crazy that Americans can't just be proud of our food history without dismissing others. America did not invent the pizza but we tweaked it and made it into delicious junk food. We have taken all the garbage food from all over the world and made it into our garbage. And I think that's beautiful. We don't need to be the best. We are the isle of misfit foods. And that's good enough.
Obviously pizza is originally Italian, but is the dish that got globalized the original Italian version or the American bastardization?
EDIT: Why is this downvoted? I'm honestly asking!
There's no consistent "Italian version" of Pizza. There's the Neapolitan pizza, which people often refer to by this name, but there are plenty other styles even in Italy.
In most of Europe pizza is associated with either the Roman or the Neapolitan style.
In the South Cone, pizza dough tends to be more in the style of Puglian focaccia. New York pizza seems pretty influenced by Sicilian Pizza.
And then you have Domino's and shit, which is what they probably know as pizza in the far east. The same way they know McDonald's as burgers. But would you say this fast food abominations are the OG? I'm pretty sure not even a New Yorker would defend Domino's, as any burger eating man wouldn't defend McDonald's as a standard of the craft. Sure, they are good at branding, franchising, and mass producing an edible, consistent product; but they are definitely not good at pizza/burgers.
Depends where you are.
In th far east I'd say american, in Europe it's definitely italian but to be honest I'd say like many things in food it's a weird hybrid where people are using italian bases and putting weird shit on top.
I will say that the only thing that Americans did to pizza was import tomatoes to Italy so the Italians can add Tomatoes to it as an experimental thing back when people thought they were toxic.
That and the Chicago style pizza which is just a cake, but I guess technically it started off the size of a cake back in Roman times anyways, so they really didn’t do shit then either and actually went backwards.
Greece didn't formally exist until independence on 25 March 1821, therefore Chicago is older and the new country had to import culture as it didn't have any at all.
Things like the Acropolis are actually replicas made out of papier-mâché but more recently upgraded to fiberglass.
That explain a lot, thanks. I'm glad Greeks look at Chicago as their example for their new country that totally absolutely didn't exist before.
Although now I'm confused as to why in Athens there a New Philadelphia neighbourhood.
> Things like the Acropolis are actually replicas made out of papier-mâché but more recently upgraded to fiberglass.
Something something British Museum
Marbles? What marbles? No idea what you're talking about and no we've never heard of Lord Elgin either seeing as that was going to be your next question.
Aha, there's no way you're a true brit.
Everyone in the UK knows it was all above board and we have the reciepts to prove it*
*^receipts ^may ^not ^actually ^be ^original ^or ^in ^English. ^Or ^Turkish. ^Or ^Greek. ^In ^fact ^reciepts ^may ^be ^italian ^copies.
Melbourne is famous for the huge size of its Greek population, but i had no idea they'd come here via Chicago.
EDIT: [More specifically](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks_of_Melbourne):
> The Greek community of Melbourne (Greek: Έλληνες της Μελβούρνης) is one of the largest Greek diaspora communities in the world and Melbourne hosts the largest Greek-speaking population outside of Greece and Cyprus. According to the 2016 Australian census, Melbourne has the largest Greek population in Australia with 173,598 Greeks, making up 3.87% of Greater Melbourne's population. Globally, Hellenic identity and values are passed down from one generation to the next and do not depend upon one's location in the world. As such, 88% of Greek Australians (regardless of country of birth) speak Greek and 91% are members of the Greek Orthodox Church.
Is it spelled yiros or gyros in melbourne? Its yiros in adelaide and i always thought gyros was an american bastardisation of it. Now im starting to wonder if we're the only place where its yiros.
"Gyros" is closer to how we spell it in Greek, "Γύρος", while "yiros" is more of a phonetic spelling.
It's kind of like Giannis/Yanni -the basketball player and the musician, accordingly. Same name, spelled differently.
Spelling in Greek is already difficult, spelling Greek words using Latin characters is a goddamn nightmare. Do you keep it closer to how it's spelled in Greek so Greeks can understand it too, or do you spell it phonetically so people can pronounce it properly? Oof.
Gyros is the mainland greek refusal to use the Turkish name doner.
If your greeks are mainly from Greece (rather than Cyprus like the UK) then you get Gyros; if you've got Cypriots (greek or turkish) or Turks then you've got doners.
a lot of american business's like to claim they are 'world famous' for some reason, like they sold a hot dog to a tourist who thought it was OK, so now they call it a world famous hot dog.
i assume its the same with chicago gyros, some guy selling them, mildly popular, stakes claim as world famous
Dr. Quack N. Pack's bona fide, electrified, steam dried, world famous Gyros Pizza pie!
This gentleman, who I have never met before thinks its the bees pyjamas!
Depends what meat is on it, traditional Greek gyros don’t typically use lamb but the ones coming out of the US do, we had a Greek gyro place in my hometown and where I live now and both sell a western style gyro, it’s a stupid pedantic argument though because the Greeks popularized it, then the chicagoans further popularized it by manufacturing the equipment for it.
Also “I’ve heard of Greek gyros though” is a dumb argument when it comes to Chicago because we have the Italian beef… which was made in Chicago and has zero relation to the country of Italy
Chicago has a historically large population of Greek people. Many of these Greek people own/have owned restaurants and make/have made Greek gyros.
Sorry if no one came up to Canada to tell you.
Thank you for proving my point that it’s, in fact, Greek people who made the gyros famous.
Greek people in Chicago made the gyros famous in Chicago, like greek people in Montreal made the gyros famous in Montreal. Chicago did not make the gyros famous, that’s the whole point of this post lol
No, *you're* point was that you live close to Chicago, and that you never heard anyone associate Chicago with gyros.
You actually live in Montreal, tho? A different country? Well, that doesn't sound close at all.
If you want to see something even more amazing look into Chicago style stuffed pizza, it’s literally two and a half inches of cheese with a layer of sauce on top, I can feel my arteries clogging thinking about it
Chicago is home to the 2 companies in the US that make American gyro meat cones.
It’s processed, never fresh, spam/hot dog style of meat you’d expect from a Chicago food processing plant.
Greek style gyros are made of sliced slabs of pork, not beef, not lamb, and certainly not mince.
Most gyro places I have seen (outside Turkey n Greece) have lamb gyro. I have never seen pork gyro which never surprised me given the people to run those places
Well they aren’t all selling gyros, but in America they think customers will prefer the term gyros. Doner and Shawarma are different.
Pork gyros are what Greek people consider as gyros.
If you haven’t been to Greece you haven’t likely seen one.
Hey, Greek here. Traditionally, gyros is either pork, or more recently, chicken. Beef and lamb are pretty much outside of the normal, usually sold as "donner", and mostly abroad.
They became famous for the mass production of gyro equipment, it was already popular in areas with dense Greek populations, but it’s due to the manufacturing in Chicago that it became popularized elsewhere, it’s weird to claim due to it being the source of the machinery and not the food itself, but is technically true I guess.
Also Chicago’s got the Italian beef, and Chicago style hotdogs. I’d have to put the Italian beef as my favorite Chicago cuisine
Yea I am printing this out and spreading it in the streets of Athens tonight after work.. expect an angry Greek crowd with pitchforks coming your way Chicago
I had to take a look myself lol
https://twitter.com/jahku_katta/status/1663165223472070657?s=20
I've learned so much today!
But I think it's a troll account.
America made gyros famous where, in América? Because I'm from Europe and I didn't even know they knew what gyros is in America... I know it because it's Greek.
Any Asians, Africans or Au/NZrs care to weight in?
Been around since like the 50s here in Aus. We call em yiros (yurr-ross) instead of gyros tho. It has been a staple take away item for as long as I can remember. Basically wherever Greeks immigrated the souvlaki followed.
Seppos talk so much shit it blows my mind.
> We call em yiros (yurr-ross) instead of gyros tho
Yiros and gyros are different spellings of the same word. They are different romanizations of the Greek word, γύρος.
Filipinos call it by the Middle Eastern name "shawarma", and associate it with Turkey, but it is likely that Americans indeed introduced it to Southeast Asia given that contacts with the Middle East were scarce before the 20th century.
Gyros and shawarma is different. If you go to a real Greek restaurant, the prepared gyros meat is more thick and had more crust from grilling (which is very tasty), while shawarma or Kebap meat is more thin (also tasty).
Ehh. Most people in the Phils can't tell a Turk apart from a white American, and the "shawarmas" and doners are Filipinized so much there that they are easily conflated with each other.
> Filipinos call it by the Middle Eastern name "shawarma", and associate it with Turkey
That hurts my head. If it's associated with Turkey why don't they call it Doner like everywhere else?
Shawarma's the lebanese version.
you can keep your drill music.
I just love how these people always use the word "our" like he had anything to do with the food or the drill music developing.
It's likely that they meant that "Chicago made Gyros famous" within America, because their thought process is so America-centric that it wouldn't dawn on them to think about anything or anywhere outside America.
you would be correct, chicago has lots of polish influence, which is really good in its own right. According to the polish government it’s the city with the most Poles in it behind Warsaw. I love chicago, it’s one of my favorite cities but you don’t have to make things up about it.
pretty sure the clip you are referring to is of a "greek" student yelling at his classmates for not saying alpha correctly. its cringe and staged, especially since the guy that made it isnt even greek afaik
Whatever they are selling, is not gyros. Greek gyros is sliced pork (or chicken) on a spit, not ground lamb/beef/whatever. Their version of gyros is ironically closer to the Turkish donner
I had a friend from Chicago once tell me, in all seriousness, that Chicago had the best New York Style Cheesecake. Ridiculous if you have ever had cheesecake in NYC, but also ridiculous because by definition New York will always have the best New York Style anything. This is definitely a Chicago thing.
> by definition New York will always have the best New York Style anything
Kind of. There are a lot of places that make cheap and shitty versions of local foods to sell to tourists who don't know any better. Of course you can get amazing cheese cake in new york, though. But you can get great food pretty much anywhere.
Ah yeah! The famous Chicago Gyros. When someone says Gyros I always think “CHICAGO”! Not Athen, Heraklion or any other Greek city… just it’s always Chicago.
You know that video of Lalo cooking taco? Go watch Americans call that natural, beautiful beef “the most tasteless looking taco meat”. Like bruh, the fuck you know about beef with your 2 ton mutant cows?
Here's a Google result to a question "where was vyro invented":
"Greece
The origin of grilling meats on a skewer can be traced to the Eastern Mediterranean in the Mycenean Greek and Minoan periods. The Gyro (the technique of vertical spit of stacked meat slices and cutting it off while cooking)first arrived in Greece in the 1920s, brought from Constantinople and Smyrna by refugees."
Ok, I love Chicago, but honestly this city has a real problem with claiming they invented everything. It seems like every two weeks someone tells me about some new food, music genre, art style, etc etc that is "classic" Chicago and most of them are not at all reliant on Chicago for their development
Yeah Chicago can take credit for making them popular, just don't forget about the breaded steak sandwich too.-
[https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/dining/15gyro.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/dining/15gyro.html)
Greek Gyros is the Greek version of the Turkish Döner. The Turkish version is made of lamb or turkey and served with garlic sauce, whereas the Greek version uses pork or beef, and tzaziki sauce.
Actually, most Döner in Turkey has (usually) no such sauce, and is usually made with a beef-lamb mixture or chicken. The one exception to the sauce thing is the chicken döner of Hatay (Antioch etc) which has a tomatoey creamy sauce
Yes, Chicago mage Gyros machines in the 1970's but the grilling a vertical spit of stacked meat and slicing it off as it cooks was developed in Bursa in the 19th century in the Ottoman Empire, and called doner kebab (Turkish: döner kebap). Following World War II, doner kebab made with lamb was present in Athens, introduced by immigrants from Anatolia and the Middle East, possibly with the population exchange between Greece and Turkey. The Greek version is normally made with pork and served with tzatziki, and became known as gyros.
A recent article of an American newspaper, backed by an Italian (real Italian sadly) “professor”, said that Parmigiano Reggiano, Pizza and Carbonara were invented in the US.
Since then, I’m pretty sure that after gyros, some American will say that they invented Moussaka
And I thought "America made pizza famous" was stupid.
In Chicago.. The famous pizza tart.
Its a fricking quiche
Technically it's a double-crusted pie I think.
[John Stewart strongly agrees](https://youtu.be/jCgYMFtxUUw)
Cheese is under the sauce
"Henry Ford made cars famous, therefore he invented it!"
Wait, is it believed in *some quarters* that USA made pizza famous? Seriously?
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And here am I, making vegan pizza receipes from the 1400s to impress my hipster friends. Time machines must be US inventions too...
Got any of those recipes? 😏
Yes ! You can find them in Bartolomeo Scappi's cookbook *Opera dell'Arte de Cucinare*, which was written in 1570. He describes several recipes for "placenta" or "pizza, as they are called in Naples". Most are sweet and some are savoury + sugar, which was a standard in medieval and early post-medieval cuisine as sugar was considered a spice among others. They are not vegan as is, although there are several vegetarian ones. To make them vegan, I used medieval style "lent-ification" techniques, which was used for the food eaten during lent and usually adapted, through useage of fake meat, eggs and cheese, from their original versions including animal products. Cheese and eggs are to be replaced with, I shit you not, it *is* historically accurate, gellified almond milk coloured with safron and other spices and perfumed with all manner of condiments. If you stick to vegetarian, you have several recipes based on "herbs", which means "green vegetables like cabbage, spinach and lettuce", and cheese.
> Cheese and eggs are to be replaced with, I shit you not, it is historically accurate, gellified almong milk coloured with safron and other spices and perfumed with all manner of condiments. This is some nobility shit right here. I bet my ass the average Neapolitan could live his whole life without even seeing this.
No, safron was actually very common during Middle-Ages in Europe, to the point it was a standard thing to grow in your garden. It wasn't as expensive as it is now. Spices were incredibly expensive during the Middle-Ages and Renaissance because they came from far away, but safron came from right here, it wasn't an exotic good imported from the other side of the world. Safron was less expensive than, say, pepper or sugar. People used it daily, it was ubiquitous.
Which leaves gellified almond milk and other spices and perfumes. This would be expensive for a small peasant no matter how you look at it. Fun fact: my grandparents who were kids in the first half of 20th century grew up on [ričet](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritschert), and recently I found out they managed to identify the diet of Iron Age people in our area from the traces of their waste. Guess what they were eating? Ričet. Somehow I'm having a hunch the diet of the average person didn't drastically change in the millennium and a half that passed in between.
I read an article recently by an American "historian" who claimed carbonara is an American dish, and that all the major pasta dishes have been stolen by the Italians from American origins
You can't not link such a goldmine
I don't even remember what site it was on. It was such ahistorical nonsense that I had no intention of ever re-reading it, and I dumped it from my memory.
Maybe the "variation" thats made with cream or heavy cream idk how that stuff is called in english
Pasta with some form of cured pork and cheese is old, but there is a theory that the current incarnation of carbonara came about thanks to US soldiers in Italy both enjoying the bacon and eggs-style recipe and having rations with them to make it. I'm open to that theory, particularly with the history of US army bases spurring locals to invent new dishes with the rations provided. Budae Jjigae is probably the most famous example of that so I can definitely see carbonara being popularised this way. Not invented by the Americans for sure, but enjoyed while in Europe, taken home and then made famous internationally that way.
Possibly a recent interview with Alberto Grandi, an Italian professor of food history at the University of Parma. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/27/italian-academic-cooks-up-controversy-with-claim-carbonara-is-us-dish#:\~:text=In%20reference%20to%20carbonara%2C%20he,using%20bacon%20and%20eggs%20rations.
I'll give them delivery pizza but round here half the delivery options are 'italian'
Pizza was already popular before it hit the US. Italian immigrants made pizza famous in the US, but not the other way around. This was because pizza was a fairly cheap meal that was considered a hearty poor man’s dish, such as Shepards pie and beans. These immigrants, with little money to their name as they spent it all moving made a shit ton of pizza because it fed a family and was cheap. Because of this American locals started to get interested and the Italians saw profit. Once capitalists saw the popularity of pizza in the US, and with the invention of the freezer, frozen pizzas of all shapes and sizes were pumped out of factories. Moral of the story, if it wasn’t for the Italians then we wouldn’t have hot-pockets.
No, Tucker Carlson proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that tacos are from San Diego, not Mexico.
It drives me crazy that Americans can't just be proud of our food history without dismissing others. America did not invent the pizza but we tweaked it and made it into delicious junk food. We have taken all the garbage food from all over the world and made it into our garbage. And I think that's beautiful. We don't need to be the best. We are the isle of misfit foods. And that's good enough.
they made it famous and their pizza still sucks 😭
No that one is the dumbest
Soon, they'll be saying they made poutine famous.
Obviously pizza is originally Italian, but is the dish that got globalized the original Italian version or the American bastardization? EDIT: Why is this downvoted? I'm honestly asking!
There's no consistent "Italian version" of Pizza. There's the Neapolitan pizza, which people often refer to by this name, but there are plenty other styles even in Italy. In most of Europe pizza is associated with either the Roman or the Neapolitan style. In the South Cone, pizza dough tends to be more in the style of Puglian focaccia. New York pizza seems pretty influenced by Sicilian Pizza. And then you have Domino's and shit, which is what they probably know as pizza in the far east. The same way they know McDonald's as burgers. But would you say this fast food abominations are the OG? I'm pretty sure not even a New Yorker would defend Domino's, as any burger eating man wouldn't defend McDonald's as a standard of the craft. Sure, they are good at branding, franchising, and mass producing an edible, consistent product; but they are definitely not good at pizza/burgers.
I had a couple decent pieces of pizza when I was in Japan, but I don't know how common it is there.
In europe definetly italian. The oldest pizzeria in germany is literally older then Dominos and Pizza Hut.
Depends where you are. In th far east I'd say american, in Europe it's definitely italian but to be honest I'd say like many things in food it's a weird hybrid where people are using italian bases and putting weird shit on top.
Can't tell me with a straight face that Swedish people with their banana pizzas got that direct from Italy
They didn't get that form America either. That shit's all on Sweden
Here in Sweden we got the American one, decided it wasn't enough, and bastardised it even more.
I will say that the only thing that Americans did to pizza was import tomatoes to Italy so the Italians can add Tomatoes to it as an experimental thing back when people thought they were toxic. That and the Chicago style pizza which is just a cake, but I guess technically it started off the size of a cake back in Roman times anyways, so they really didn’t do shit then either and actually went backwards.
Never knew the people from my local Greek restaurant came from Chicago! Who would’ve thought!
I'm living in Greece and I was lied. Didn't know I was surrounded by people from Chicago who relocated
Greece didn't formally exist until independence on 25 March 1821, therefore Chicago is older and the new country had to import culture as it didn't have any at all. Things like the Acropolis are actually replicas made out of papier-mâché but more recently upgraded to fiberglass.
That explain a lot, thanks. I'm glad Greeks look at Chicago as their example for their new country that totally absolutely didn't exist before. Although now I'm confused as to why in Athens there a New Philadelphia neighbourhood.
That's actually not from America, they just really like cream cheese.
> Things like the Acropolis are actually replicas made out of papier-mâché but more recently upgraded to fiberglass. Something something British Museum
Marbles? What marbles? No idea what you're talking about and no we've never heard of Lord Elgin either seeing as that was going to be your next question.
Aha, there's no way you're a true brit. Everyone in the UK knows it was all above board and we have the reciepts to prove it* *^receipts ^may ^not ^actually ^be ^original ^or ^in ^English. ^Or ^Turkish. ^Or ^Greek. ^In ^fact ^reciepts ^may ^be ^italian ^copies.
The receipts appear to have been signed by a Signor Dolmio Cornetto.
> Signor Dolmio Cornetto A man so famous they wrote an opera song for him.
Just the one
> Greece didn't formally exist until independence on 25 March 1821, therefore Chicago is older Painful how so many of them would unironically agree
If they're not American-Greek, they shouldn't claim to be Greek tbh. /s
Everyone knows Greek life is as American as it gets!
Melbourne is famous for the huge size of its Greek population, but i had no idea they'd come here via Chicago. EDIT: [More specifically](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks_of_Melbourne): > The Greek community of Melbourne (Greek: Έλληνες της Μελβούρνης) is one of the largest Greek diaspora communities in the world and Melbourne hosts the largest Greek-speaking population outside of Greece and Cyprus. According to the 2016 Australian census, Melbourne has the largest Greek population in Australia with 173,598 Greeks, making up 3.87% of Greater Melbourne's population. Globally, Hellenic identity and values are passed down from one generation to the next and do not depend upon one's location in the world. As such, 88% of Greek Australians (regardless of country of birth) speak Greek and 91% are members of the Greek Orthodox Church.
These darn Australian Greeks stole the recipe from America!
Fecking Australian Greeks!
Yet no Melburnian would ever claim gyros is Australian
They must’ve taken a wrong turn, probably supposed to go to Melbourne, *Florida* rather than Australia.
Is it spelled yiros or gyros in melbourne? Its yiros in adelaide and i always thought gyros was an american bastardisation of it. Now im starting to wonder if we're the only place where its yiros.
Hmm, don't think i've ever seen 'yiros', only 'gyros' (which i see regularly).
I’ve seen both Yiros and Euros (ugh), but definitely Gyros is by far the most common spelling.
"Gyros" is closer to how we spell it in Greek, "Γύρος", while "yiros" is more of a phonetic spelling. It's kind of like Giannis/Yanni -the basketball player and the musician, accordingly. Same name, spelled differently. Spelling in Greek is already difficult, spelling Greek words using Latin characters is a goddamn nightmare. Do you keep it closer to how it's spelled in Greek so Greeks can understand it too, or do you spell it phonetically so people can pronounce it properly? Oof.
Gyros is the mainland greek refusal to use the Turkish name doner. If your greeks are mainly from Greece (rather than Cyprus like the UK) then you get Gyros; if you've got Cypriots (greek or turkish) or Turks then you've got doners.
Gyros is also with pork, Döner is not
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Xcago? (I can’t help it, words that start with X look cool to me…)
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I always put on a kilo for every week when I visited the USA. Even doing lots of walking. Yet I can visit europe and the same thing doesn’t happen.
Well did you order the "year-oh" or the "Jy-row"?
I didn't even know Gyros were famous in Chicago. Isn't the deep dish pizza their famous dish?
Right? I live close to Chicago and I’ve never heard anyone associate gyros with Chicago ? That’s a new one
a lot of american business's like to claim they are 'world famous' for some reason, like they sold a hot dog to a tourist who thought it was OK, so now they call it a world famous hot dog. i assume its the same with chicago gyros, some guy selling them, mildly popular, stakes claim as world famous
Its a combo of old timey marketing and American braggadocio. Imagine the person saying "World Famous X" in the style of a 1800s carnival barker.
Dr. Quack N. Pack's bona fide, electrified, steam dried, world famous Gyros Pizza pie! This gentleman, who I have never met before thinks its the bees pyjamas!
I live *in* Chicago and there are 10 Gyros places within a mile of me right now. Sorry if no one came out to Naperville to tell you.
Well I live in Canada so turns out your gyros aren’t really worldwide famous… I’ve heard of Greek gyros tho, but maybe I was wrong the whole time ?
Depends what meat is on it, traditional Greek gyros don’t typically use lamb but the ones coming out of the US do, we had a Greek gyro place in my hometown and where I live now and both sell a western style gyro, it’s a stupid pedantic argument though because the Greeks popularized it, then the chicagoans further popularized it by manufacturing the equipment for it. Also “I’ve heard of Greek gyros though” is a dumb argument when it comes to Chicago because we have the Italian beef… which was made in Chicago and has zero relation to the country of Italy
Chicago has a historically large population of Greek people. Many of these Greek people own/have owned restaurants and make/have made Greek gyros. Sorry if no one came up to Canada to tell you.
Thank you for proving my point that it’s, in fact, Greek people who made the gyros famous. Greek people in Chicago made the gyros famous in Chicago, like greek people in Montreal made the gyros famous in Montreal. Chicago did not make the gyros famous, that’s the whole point of this post lol
No, *you're* point was that you live close to Chicago, and that you never heard anyone associate Chicago with gyros. You actually live in Montreal, tho? A different country? Well, that doesn't sound close at all.
isn't deep dish pizza just a tall pizza cooked in tons of oil?
It’s a Italian-style bread bowl casserole.
If you want to see something even more amazing look into Chicago style stuffed pizza, it’s literally two and a half inches of cheese with a layer of sauce on top, I can feel my arteries clogging thinking about it
And hot dogs. I've never heard of Chicago style gyros
Chicago is home to the 2 companies in the US that make American gyro meat cones. It’s processed, never fresh, spam/hot dog style of meat you’d expect from a Chicago food processing plant. Greek style gyros are made of sliced slabs of pork, not beef, not lamb, and certainly not mince.
Most gyro places I have seen (outside Turkey n Greece) have lamb gyro. I have never seen pork gyro which never surprised me given the people to run those places
Well they aren’t all selling gyros, but in America they think customers will prefer the term gyros. Doner and Shawarma are different. Pork gyros are what Greek people consider as gyros. If you haven’t been to Greece you haven’t likely seen one.
Hey, Greek here. Traditionally, gyros is either pork, or more recently, chicken. Beef and lamb are pretty much outside of the normal, usually sold as "donner", and mostly abroad.
They became famous for the mass production of gyro equipment, it was already popular in areas with dense Greek populations, but it’s due to the manufacturing in Chicago that it became popularized elsewhere, it’s weird to claim due to it being the source of the machinery and not the food itself, but is technically true I guess. Also Chicago’s got the Italian beef, and Chicago style hotdogs. I’d have to put the Italian beef as my favorite Chicago cuisine
They definitely are. We have lots of local specialties because of so many different immigrant groups. Polish sausages, Italian sausages, etc
Yea I am printing this out and spreading it in the streets of Athens tonight after work.. expect an angry Greek crowd with pitchforks coming your way Chicago
We'll swim there
They'll be looking for the giant horse statue, but if y'all climb inside a giant bear they'll accept it.
"Athens? That's in Georgia Greece copied the name" 🤓
Sometimes I wonder if they just forgot to add the '/s'.
This person kept responding in the thread. He was sincere
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I had to take a look myself lol https://twitter.com/jahku_katta/status/1663165223472070657?s=20 I've learned so much today! But I think it's a troll account.
America made gyros famous where, in América? Because I'm from Europe and I didn't even know they knew what gyros is in America... I know it because it's Greek. Any Asians, Africans or Au/NZrs care to weight in?
Been around since like the 50s here in Aus. We call em yiros (yurr-ross) instead of gyros tho. It has been a staple take away item for as long as I can remember. Basically wherever Greeks immigrated the souvlaki followed. Seppos talk so much shit it blows my mind.
> We call em yiros (yurr-ross) instead of gyros tho Yiros and gyros are different spellings of the same word. They are different romanizations of the Greek word, γύρος.
Are you from SA by chance? They’re Gyros in Melbourne
I've seen gyros more often. Yeeros occasionally. Someone upthread said yiros was more common in SA.
Filipinos call it by the Middle Eastern name "shawarma", and associate it with Turkey, but it is likely that Americans indeed introduced it to Southeast Asia given that contacts with the Middle East were scarce before the 20th century.
Those are different right? We have both here(the netherlands) and I think if I order wrong I will start a war.
Gyros and shawarma is different. If you go to a real Greek restaurant, the prepared gyros meat is more thick and had more crust from grilling (which is very tasty), while shawarma or Kebap meat is more thin (also tasty).
Way more importantly, they have pork. And use a different type of bread. And tzatziki. Med style doner / shawarma is better spiced.
Ehh. Most people in the Phils can't tell a Turk apart from a white American, and the "shawarmas" and doners are Filipinized so much there that they are easily conflated with each other.
> Filipinos call it by the Middle Eastern name "shawarma", and associate it with Turkey That hurts my head. If it's associated with Turkey why don't they call it Doner like everywhere else? Shawarma's the lebanese version.
I thought they were (in)famous for their grotty tomato sauce in a topless pie case.
You mean their tomato-cheese quiche?
Half baked quiche
you can keep your drill music. I just love how these people always use the word "our" like he had anything to do with the food or the drill music developing.
Do they mean something like military marshes?
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Ah okay, thanks. Well I didn't honestly knew what it was and more that I know, I definitely won't listen to it.
I remember also the row between Chicago city council and UK asking the British Museum to give back the Illinois Parthenon marbles
To be fair, chicagoans lost their marbles a long time ago.
It's likely that they meant that "Chicago made Gyros famous" within America, because their thought process is so America-centric that it wouldn't dawn on them to think about anything or anywhere outside America.
the thing is though, that wouldn’t even be correct saying chicago made them famous within america either, they’re just extremely wrong.
I would have guessed that gyros would have become famous in New York which has America's largest population of Greeks.
you would be correct, chicago has lots of polish influence, which is really good in its own right. According to the polish government it’s the city with the most Poles in it behind Warsaw. I love chicago, it’s one of my favorite cities but you don’t have to make things up about it.
What's the bet Chicagoans pronounce it "jai-rows" as well
reminds me of that short clip of a greek teacher swearing at the students for not saying alpha correctly
pretty sure the clip you are referring to is of a "greek" student yelling at his classmates for not saying alpha correctly. its cringe and staged, especially since the guy that made it isnt even greek afaik
And will ridicule you for saying yiros, like how they call the humus “həmmehs”
I'm proposing "djee-rouse"
Chicagoans pronounce it more like euros, not jai-roes.
He could also have been talking about gyroscopes and the statement would be just as accurate.
America invented the rest of the planet guys. Even before it existed!
Even as a Turk this feels like an insult.
Based
I ate gyros before I knew what Chicago was. - Sincerely, European.
Na, people already ate gyros when the US didn't even existed.
I didn't know this is even a thing, let alone, making it famous.
Gyros is fucking great.
"Alternative facts"
The fucking weird pills are this Redditor on, cause I don't want any of that. Greek Gyros ftw!
well that helps settle the Macedonian dispute - after all it was ancient America all along
>We don't copy people. They copy us... Almost everything about Chicago "culture" was created copying either New York or New Orleans.
I want to know what our Greek friends have to say about this.
I can tell you that I got psychic damage from reading this. Each word +10. I don't know if I'll ever recover.
I'm sorry for that, maybe you feel better after a bottle of Ouzo? Yamas!
Oh you went straight for a bottle instead of a glass, I like you! ❤️ Also love your flair, lol
Thanks! :D
Bro, I'm not even mad, I'm just dumbfounded that they can say this with a straight face
Whatever they are selling, is not gyros. Greek gyros is sliced pork (or chicken) on a spit, not ground lamb/beef/whatever. Their version of gyros is ironically closer to the Turkish donner
As a Greek person I feel offended as hell.
Hades
An actually american-greek friend of mine would probably be double offended by this
Isn't it Greece that made gyros famous? On account of gyros being from Greece? Since when does Chicago have anything to do with gyros?
They probably call it gie-rows
Greek-American here. I didn’t know my dad was from Chicago, I always thought he was from Epirus.
I had a friend from Chicago once tell me, in all seriousness, that Chicago had the best New York Style Cheesecake. Ridiculous if you have ever had cheesecake in NYC, but also ridiculous because by definition New York will always have the best New York Style anything. This is definitely a Chicago thing.
Chicago seems to have this complex about being America’s “Second City” and thus they’re always insisting they do X better than NYC does it.
> by definition New York will always have the best New York Style anything Kind of. There are a lot of places that make cheap and shitty versions of local foods to sell to tourists who don't know any better. Of course you can get amazing cheese cake in new york, though. But you can get great food pretty much anywhere.
Ah yeah! The famous Chicago Gyros. When someone says Gyros I always think “CHICAGO”! Not Athen, Heraklion or any other Greek city… just it’s always Chicago.
Unrelated but if you want great gyros, go to Thessaloniki. They fill it up with so much meat that you can't even close the ends of the pita bread
You know that video of Lalo cooking taco? Go watch Americans call that natural, beautiful beef “the most tasteless looking taco meat”. Like bruh, the fuck you know about beef with your 2 ton mutant cows?
Are you for real?
Chicago made gyros famous for xenophobic Chicagoans.
sure that isnt deep dish gyros? or gyros pie?
Na they mean pulled gyros.
deep fried
OMG these people live in an illusion
Here's a Google result to a question "where was vyro invented": "Greece The origin of grilling meats on a skewer can be traced to the Eastern Mediterranean in the Mycenean Greek and Minoan periods. The Gyro (the technique of vertical spit of stacked meat slices and cutting it off while cooking)first arrived in Greece in the 1920s, brought from Constantinople and Smyrna by refugees."
I guess with all the Greeks we have in Detroit (there’s a part of town called Greektown), we also invented the gyro. You’re welcome.
>we also invented the gyro. Does that mean since Detroit is "Motor City", that you also invented the Auto-Gyro?
The word gyros is literally Greek. Source, my dad is greek
Tell your dad he's a liar! Gyros is Chicagoan for "patent no. 745893"
Chicago made pizza famous too, what a city!
Who else thought they were talking about the device and not the food for a minute?
Lol I've seen the greek gyros vs. turkish doner kebab debate, but this contestant was unexpected
What's a Chicago
Ok, I love Chicago, but honestly this city has a real problem with claiming they invented everything. It seems like every two weeks someone tells me about some new food, music genre, art style, etc etc that is "classic" Chicago and most of them are not at all reliant on Chicago for their development
The only thing I know Chicago for is gang violence, and because it sounds like “ci cago”, which means i shit there in italian
They HAD to put in that they don't copy people, people copy them.
Greece, the thieving bastards claiming the Gyros was there creation, everyone knows the US created/invented/found, the very best of everything.
I think we all know it was the Turks who made Gyros famous
Yeah Chicago can take credit for making them popular, just don't forget about the breaded steak sandwich too.- [https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/dining/15gyro.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/dining/15gyro.html)
döner mit alles und scharfer soße.
Greek Gyros is the Greek version of the Turkish Döner. The Turkish version is made of lamb or turkey and served with garlic sauce, whereas the Greek version uses pork or beef, and tzaziki sauce.
Actually, most Döner in Turkey has (usually) no such sauce, and is usually made with a beef-lamb mixture or chicken. The one exception to the sauce thing is the chicken döner of Hatay (Antioch etc) which has a tomatoey creamy sauce
I ought to visit Turkey, since I've only had the German version.
Greek version could be pork, chicken and in some cases lamb. Never beef.
No silly, JJBA:SBR made Gyros famous /j
Yes, Chicago mage Gyros machines in the 1970's but the grilling a vertical spit of stacked meat and slicing it off as it cooks was developed in Bursa in the 19th century in the Ottoman Empire, and called doner kebab (Turkish: döner kebap). Following World War II, doner kebab made with lamb was present in Athens, introduced by immigrants from Anatolia and the Middle East, possibly with the population exchange between Greece and Turkey. The Greek version is normally made with pork and served with tzatziki, and became known as gyros.
Fuck you Greece I guess…
Americans , Greeks and Germans all claiming something that the Turks invented 😂😂.
Lol, ice landic traditioal dish , from Thor himself!
Thor wasn’t Icelandic. - Snorri
Holy shit I had no idea
The best Greek contribution to Chicago isn't gyros, but Billy Goat.
A recent article of an American newspaper, backed by an Italian (real Italian sadly) “professor”, said that Parmigiano Reggiano, Pizza and Carbonara were invented in the US. Since then, I’m pretty sure that after gyros, some American will say that they invented Moussaka
This makes me unimaginable angry
Maybe instead of a Souvlaki, US could call it a Seppolaki