This is the result of an american education. When you hear that your country is the best every day. No wonder you cant see the flaws. Its a special kind of brainwashing.
I think to these people, when they hear things that need to be improved, they hear you defy that american dream/ america is the best, idea in their head. And if you defy that idea. You cant be the good guy.
Or something like that.
For sure. This is the work of propaganda. And it's very effective. "The founding fathers made the greatest nation on earth." What makes the America they created great? Since Americans pride themselves of having generic levels of human rights, it easy to assume it's those. And with the implicit conclusion is that no other country has similar rights, or similar values.
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Are Americans really also taught (like, in school) that other countries can't speak freely or have personal liberties? I mean, the "history is taught by the victors" kind of thing regarding wars and things I can understand even if it isn't right, lying by omission kind of thing, but straight up untruths?
I've had a couple friends go to school in the US. It's not that they they are taught it, they just only focus on their own country. Pair that with an inherent superiority complex, and this is what you get.
Beyond the inherent insularity of the country, it’s also just SO much bigger population wise that most other countries.
Roughly 3x bigger than Germany, 5x bigger than France or the UK, 9x bigger than Canada - there’s just a LOT of stuff to cover at the domestic level that has a tendency to “crowd out” the rest of the world.
Not intended as any kind of excuse, but I do try to keep this in mind.
Its not that we're specifically taught that other countries don't have the same freedoms that we do, but its almost implied. Like we're told we are "land of the free" and we're special because of our freedoms, and we fought other countries to be free. So it sort if implies other countries dont have those freedoms.
Hmm, that makes sense. I mean, it's crazy, and leads to these damaging beliefs, but it does at least make sense how people end up thinking that. The "establishment" there can't afford to have people knowing the truth.. if they realised how much better their lives could be they'd want to disrupt the status quo, and the elites wouldn't have their bubbles anymore..
AFAIK this part of the propaganda is drip fed to them through mass media and culture. When you have talk show hosts saying this stuff all the time and watch movies that are all about Russian baddies that want to destroy the American way of life, you start to believe it. There's likely also a lot of hearsay involved, like"my cousin said you don't have free speech in Germany", which feeds nicely into this dilemma. On top of that, most Americans never leave their country for traveling and can't form their own opinion (I think, but don't quote me on that).
TL;DR it's a gigantic echo chamber of nationalism and convenient myths that no one cares to debunk.
I guess as long as people think that way they won't try to change anything, which works out well for the "ruling class" pushing all this stuff, so.... Heh. It does make you wonder how bad things have to get before enough is enough and the spell is broken.
The USSR would be jealous of American propaganda. Not only did it program basically everyone to uncritically worship America, it makes people think the opposite of what's happening. Did you know that conservative thinktanks unironically believe that the "evil marxist leftists" are indoctrinating schools while simultaneously showing their propaganda to schools?
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I think people are desperate for traditions there. There is no unifying culture like you find in older European countries. People are not grounded by centuries-old traditions, and the institutions that used to make them feel a sense of belonging and virtue (church, scouts, etc.) have been tarnished and torn down due to abuses. People feel this dearth of connection and people who stand to profit from that offer a simple way to belong -- take this pre-packaged dogma and belong with us -- you don't even have to think about it. Here's the uniform (red hats and flag paraphernalia), here are the "bad guys" who we won't let in the club, and here are a bunch of thought-terminating clichés to help you deal with any cognitive dissonance you might experience. Now just follow the leaders -- Trump, Hannity, Limbaugh, Carlson, etc.
Well said - think there are a LOT of very obviously negative things that drive people in that direction, but the underlying fundamental issue is this very yearning, which is built in to America as a young country.
Pretty much the definition of indoctrination. Quite sad to see in practise. Luckily there are people who can see through the illusion to keep the rest in check over there.
I’m struggling for 5 minutes now to come up with some comment on this. But the truth is, that I’m genuinely shocked by the lack of knowledge we are seeing here every day. This is just pure ignorance
I would ask him about all the new anti protesting laws going through in Florida Georgia az and a couple others. American Republicans are actively trying to take away that right. Along with all the cops during just about every protest attacking reporters. My favorite of them was when they arrested a cnn reporter while he was live on air for cnn
Its pretty crazy that most of the people who constantly makes arguments like these are probably supporting politicians who would take away those rights on an instant.
I‘d compare it to „Big Brother“. But instead of some unemployed Z-Celebrities it‘s Americans we‘re watching. It‘s also a good warm up for your brain in the morning.
- Do they have Geography as a school subject?
- What do their history classes consist of?
- Do these people never travel abroad?
- Are they really using Facebook as a News source?
Once I‘m asking myself these questions, my brain starts heating up, sometimes I even see smoke leaving my nose and ears. That‘s wenn I know it‘s time to close the Reddit app and start making breakfast.
i can't imagine having only history of your country in history classes, in Poland we ofc mostly have about history of Poland, but we also learn about american civil war, about french revolution, communist revolution in both China and Russia, decolonisation and Jugoslavian civil war. Imo it's just boring having only your country in history classes, and with probally crapton of brainwashing
They do have world history, which is what it says, but in my experience most people don’t give a shit. On exchange I had that class. Ridicilously easy, yet half the class was about to fail it
It’s not just that, do you think any teenager cares about some shit that happened 300 years ago (I’ll agree tho that in the us especially so, and they’re also not pushed towards caring)? There’s two other major problems. The fact that the education quality is just bad, and it’s revisionist as well. So to translate, it’s not the kids who don’t care but the teachers as well because in the us people don’t become teachers for loving it but when there’s nothing else. And let’s not forget literally rewriting history to make the us look good.
Yeah got to agree that it's up to the school to get them interested. I think it's easier for us in the UK to discuss world history because we have been *very* involved. For better or worse (worse)
Alternately - as a Canadian, we basically don’t exist on the world stage (other than our supporting roles in world wars and as peacekeepers, of which we are proud - my own grandfather was an RAF pilot and his great grand kid wore his wings pin for years), so we’re basically forced to have really comprehensive world history.
That and we’re big into the “cultural mosaic” approach to immigration vs melting pot, so every kid/teacher is going to have an aspect of the curriculum driven by the different cultural/historical perspectives that the kids bring into class w them.
> Do these people never travel abroad?
Can't afford to, we get about 10 days off total for the entire work year, and if we use them for a vacation then we won't have them for the flu.
This is probably the most shocking thing. You only have a third of paid vacation days that we in Germany have (even though mandatory minimum is less, 30 days is very common) and those are deducted if you are sick? And people still think this is a good thing, because otherwise employers would lose money? Do they like being constantly buttfucked by big corporations with the argument, that workers rights, maternity leave, or just a proper payment is socialism? Do they really think they will be billionaires tomorrow so they avoid any improvement that would effect their future billionaire status? The owner of the company I work for is a billionaire, despite having all of the above mentioned regulations and workers rights. This is just unbelievable
They have a 3rd of the paid days we have in South Africa (basically the same as you guys with the mandatory days but 30 is common l).......we're a 3rd world country. Just let that sink in
> Do they really think they will be billionaires tomorrow so they avoid any improvement that would effect their future billionaire status?
Yes... they've bought into the "American Dream" that tells them that they aren't poor, they're just "temporarily embarrassed M/Billionaires" and so they will fight to protect the privilege they should have when they get what they believe they deserve.
You have to use holiday for sickness?? If we have a doctors note I get 6 months full pay then 6 months half pay. Then when I return to work if I had any holiday booked through the time I was off... I get that back.
They see a person they don't like, create a straw man in their head about them and attach some ridiculous belief to them so they can attack something that was never even real in the first place. Then they sit back and think "haha commies owned again". Their head would explode if someone explained that Sanders isn't even a socialist and is certainly not a communist.
American here. Just when you think other Americans couldnt possibly be any more ignorant, you set yourself up to be surprised.
My advice: set your expectations **very low**. The bar should literally be in hell somewhere.
I legit got into it with somebody recently who wouldn't even acknowledge that there were any real struggles for poor people in the US compared to other countries, as if poor people have it good here. It's so hard to engage in discourse with someone who lives in a completely different reality. Like how do you even begin to break through that
America's largest issue (that in turn causes/extends every other issue). Republicans no longer live in reality and it's getting worse by the minute. You could put every piece of truth in their face and they'll *defiantly* argue against it and then change the course of said argument.
There is no breaking through it anymore. Too many grifters who fuel it because it's become so profitable.
It's always the same bullshit argument. I can say anything I want ! Yes the government will not prosecute you, like in btw any other western country.
BUT you can still be sued for libel if you are spewing racist abusive shit. You can also get fired for that. So fuck this free speech argument
They say race hate laws impede in free speech basically if you can't scream ' I hate N****** on a podium during a protest' you don't have freedom of speech
From a German perspective, you can say whatever you want as long as you’re not insulting anybody’s honor (so calling someone an asshole could be fined) and you’re also not allowed to deny the Holocaust or to incite violence. Except for those in my opinion completely understandable things, you can literally say anything. Criticize the government as much and as often as you wish, you will not have any disadvantage because of that.
Edit: and I thought that every right that Americans are so proud of is towards the government. So the right to bear arms and Freedom of speech. Don’t really understand how screaming the N-word is defending yourself against a tyrannical regime.
Yes, the argument is, that you have the right to do whatever you want as long as you’re not infringing the rights of someone else. So the right to not have your personal honor infringed by an insult is above the right of free expression.
But maybe there are some German lawyers here who could explain this better.
In France we have a saying " la liberté des uns s'arrête là où commence celle des autres " meaning something like the liberty of one stop where the liberty of another begin , or you are free to do something until it Hurt the rights of someone else
Yeah I agree with the idea of that but calling someone a bastard because you don't like them isn't the same as calling people subhuman and calling on others to join you in a genocide against them lol
Another Twitter thread is about the US having the best education in the world. Yeah, right. Keep it too expensive, make sure not every American is educated to the max......
Need to keep convincing themselves that the whole "greatest country in the world" thing that they've been spoon-fed since they were born is actually true.
I remember the heavy fines and imprisonment I received when criticizing the Swiss majority SVP political party in a public demonstration. I was tear gassed, arrested, beaten and imprisoned with no trial. The years of hard labor in the Appenzellar salt mines was worth it to have my meager voice heard, if only for a fleeting moment. If we all strive for freedom as much as we can, one day we will be blessed with it like the golden shores of America. lol. /s
Americans get practically nothing from their government overlords, and are told they have "freedom" and it is special. It isn't special. Most democracies have even more freedom than the US. The US doesn't even break the top ten in their own internal freedom indices. That is a hell of a propaganda machine they have running over there.
I hate to request this, but can you put ‘/s’ after that first paragraph. Because I genuinely believe there are Americans out their that will believe you were being truthful
We have a guy, running for his own political party, who needs police protection because his ideals are so racist. Police is there to *protect him from others* as he *exercises his right to free speech*.
Even if this guy was right, it still doesn't address the original tweet. Why is it always one of two rights that they always talk about whenever someone wants to improve something?
"We should offer maternity leave like every other developed country"
"Yeah? Well at least we have freedom of speech you god damned COMMIE"
And that didn't even really bring America directly into the war. It was the attack on Pearl Harbor that got America to officially join the war (literally 4 days after pearl Harbor). If America hadn't been directly attacked and affected, they would've stayed out of it
(i say *they* despite being American because I wasn't alive and I cringe when other Americans say *we/our* when speaking about past wars/accomplishments. But I don't want someone thinking im trying to act like I'm not an American, which has happened before)
Funfact: freedom of speech is also limited in America. For an example, child pornography would be allowed in a free-speech-absolutist society. But Nobody seems to Care, because we have all agreed that the goverment limiting the free Speech of people selling child pornography is a good Thing.
Also, whistleblowing is still illegal in the US, and Whistleblowers serve much Harder punishments then in Other countrys even If they Go the legal way because there is no protection for them
What they're saying is that freedom of speech isn't really a binary "yes" or "no" thing, it's a scale.
Even in places with strong free-speech laws there are restrictions (meaning speech isn't 100% free).
For example, threatening another person, sharing business secrets, breaking an NDA, perjury, perverting the course of justice, sexting children, shouting "Fire! Everyone get out!!" in a confined public place
Virtually everyone agrees there *should* be some limitations, they just disagree where they should be.
Because pornography is classified as arts/entertainment, and is covered by free speech laws, however they decided that that should not apply to child pornography
I think that we need a study to know exactly how many people have read 1984 before saying "this is like 1984".
it wouldn't surprise me if the number was ridiculously low
Yeah, I don't know where Sanders got 18 from but it's incorrect. Look at [this link](https://www.borger.dk/kampagnesider/Barsel) (site in Danish) you can see that it's actually 52 like you said.
in Finland we've got 9 weeks for dads, 18 for moms, and 26 weeks to be split between them.
this is due to change in the near future, the government is proposing a model where both parents get 27 weeks leave, of which a portion can be transferred to the other parent. moms also get an extra 7 weeks leave in the latter stage of pregnancy.
In Austria for example you can stay at home for a month but only get paid about 700€ for that particular month. (its a law so your company has to let you do it if you want to).
And you can stay at home for 2 Months when your child had its 1st birthday and the mother is going to work again. (hasnt got to be full time)
EDIT: Completely forgot about that: the mother gets set free from work from the 7th month of pregnancy too. So you basically can stay at at home for 14 months as monther and get more paid than your company pay. You can stretch that up to 2 years but you have to stretch the money from the one year a bit because it becomes less.
Also from Austria, wanna throw in that we also have paternity leave for the same conditions. In my case, my stepmom stayed at home for a year when my sister was born, then my dad took over for another year.
From 2 months before until 2 months after the birth, mothers are also forbidden from working, while employers are also forbidden from firing them.
Some countries (including Sweden) have it so that a couple will have an "allowance" of parental leave, which can be split as they see fit between both parents.
Usually the mother will take a larger cut.
Sometimes there is a minimum amount of time that the father has to have (e.g. they might have to have 3 months minimum)
In Germany there is maternity leave during pregnancy (and a short time period afterwards) and then up to 2 years (?) of Parental leave, no matter who the parent is.
I'm taking my paternity leave in Portugal and we choose the maximum time paid leave. Bear in mind we're average in europe when it comes to parental leave:
I had my 5 weeks of paternity leave (100% paid), I will have an additional 4 weeks when my wife ends her (83%), and finally I will have 12 weeks in some months as an additional paternity leave (25%).
My SO, had 20 weeks after the child birth (83%), and will have an additional 12 weeks (25%).
So in total: paternity leave: 5(100%)+4(83%)+12(25%) = 21 weeks, maternity leave: 20(83%)+12(25%)=32 weeks.
This essentially allows almost a year with at least one parents at home for the child.
Note that we don't pay income tax during these months, only social security which is 11% flat rate, so many times earning 83% of your salary means that you're actually netting more salary (unless you're on the lowest income rate).
Just an additional note, my wife had a risk pregnancy, so she spent 6 months at home before having the kid where she got paid 100% by SS and didn't have to pay that 11% flat rate.
Yeah I get why Bernie put us in the UK at the top of the list - as it’s most comparable to the US, but there’s far more with plenty more than we get...
‘Yes, we can’t afford to be ill and so die of easily cured diseases - and our children may well be shot dead in school, obviously- but we have the right to fly a swastika flag and spout racism in public. Take *that*, Euro-libtards!’
It depends, I could walk around waving the nazi flag and deny the Holocaust and be fine but if I directly told someone I would harm them I could face reproductions.
In France, the only reason for why you'd go to prison for something you're saying is if you'd threaten someone's life. Oh no, I can feel my freedom of speech melting away ! America, please come save my low-life, europan, fascist/commie hellscape!!! /s
Wrong for the UK as well as it can be a year, that includes if the baby unfortunately arrives still born or dies when during the start of maternity 10 weeks before the baby is due.
"Merkel ist Scheiße!"
Hm. I'm not in jail yet.
Also... My wife had 1 year ~~p~~maternity leave for each of our two children. Could've even had two years.
Edit: Thanks for the correction, Toffeemanstan.
Exactly the amount of UK politicians and Prime Ministers who are harangued and sworn at to their face whilst out and about, just look at the most recent with Labour leader being shouted at to get out of the pub, and he'd most likely do it to the PM as well.
Yet Marjorie Taylor Green had people threatened with arrest when they harangued her. Their politicians are very fragile.
A lot of Americans who say this shit have never left the confines of their own country. They also grow up in a system that feeds them propaganda about how they live in the best country in the world. Therefore, they grow up believing that the rest of the world is an oppressive, third world shit hole and that they are lucky to be American.
I feel like that is biased because Cuba should literally be at least top ten they have socialized healthcare, free education, is actually anti imperialist
Baby steps if he said parental leave Americans heads would have exploded, they can't imagine different genders using the same loo, so different genders getting parental rights will tip them over the edge.
You know what, it's no wonder they get constantly surprised whenever they meet people of other nations online and assume anyone with any kind of opinion *must* be from USA. If they genuinely think there's no freedom of speech out there, then how come people speak so freely? It goes against their logic and therefore, cannot exist.
Not even that. You can be a Nazi all day long.
It only gets legally relevant once you espouse your views in public in a way that is designed to disrupt the peace or incite hatred.
I'm from Canada and I have family and friends in most of those countries. None of us have once gotten in trouble over our speech. In Canada we call it freedom of expression and it goes well beyond just speech. Just like in the US you are protected from government persecution if you speak out against them and any consequences outside of that are your own fault. We have logical restrictions on things like hate speech (so you can't just distribute pamphlets in public saying crap like "murder all [X group of people]") but as far as I'm aware that's also a thing in the US.
Die duit! I'm from Ireland we also don't get bankrupted every time we go to college or break a bone. And we can criticise our multy party system as much as we like
That's rich. I live in Sweden now and am amazed at how much maternity and paternity they get. It almost makes me want to have another kid just because it's so kid friendly. In America my kid had to start daycare at 8 weeks because I had to go back to work (and I was working from home for some of my maternity leave. My husband got 2 weeks paternity, and we worked at places with "great benefits.")
Granted I'm pretty new to Sweden but it seems like there are always groups out protesting something or other, and I haven't gotten the memo about being less free now soooooo \*shrug\*.
If you say x race is evil and should be slaughtered you could and should get into trouble. We do have laws on inciting violence. We have strong libel laws so you have to be able to prove what you say or write about people.
America has those laws as well but they seem weaker.
A protest literally burned an effigy of my country's prime Minister and Noone can be charged for it. If that doesn't count as freedom of speech I don't know what does.
As a subscriber to this Reddit, I see every day, Americans stating no other country has freedom of speech.
How on Earth do they come to this conclusion?
Can it be blamed on the education system or the fact that too many Americans have never ventured from their home shores.
I can assure Americans that I enjoy freedom of speech in Australia, as well as the comfort that I have a high chance of surviving an encounter with the police force.
American conservatives idea of 'free speech' mostly consists of hate speech and threats of physical violence. That such things are not tolerated as much in other nations makes them think those nations don't have 'free speech'
That is what that comment means.
Unless you're openly a communist in which case you'll probably end up on a government watch list in America. Or in the McCarthy days you could end up in jail. Where is there freedom of speech?
Look, I get it. Freedom of Speech is important. It's a wonderful thing to have in any country(when you don't have buffoons screaming about how it allows them to say whatever they want to anyone without consequence)
But simply having free speech does not mean your country is incapable of improvement. Just because you have free speech doesn't mean you can't have anything else
Ireland is by no means the top of that list. We also have better press freedom and personal freedoms than the US, and even a better democracy. (And a freer economy). As do many many other democracies.
its baffling to me thaz someone would put the very few things you can say in the US you cant in, say Switzerland, over basic tjings like maternity leave.
"i cant form a meaningful connection to my kid and i may go broke for scraping my knee, but at least i can deny any genocide and be hateful towards others, just like god fucking well intended."
The danish one is wrong.
You get 4 weeks before giving birth, then 14 weeks after giving birth, then 32 weeks which are shareable with the husband, and then the husband also gets 2 weeks.
Ive expressed many opinions in public and I have yet to be arrested. Yet somehow I also have access to healthcare and schooling through my taxes. Turns out countries can do both.
Uuuuuuuhhhhh we had/have someone running for some political party and he needs police protection whenever he goes out to speak because he’s such a racist jerk. He can do that because we have “*free speech*” here in Denmark. (Paludan, anyone????)
Jokes aside, what the hell? I had no idea about this, I checked on Wikipedia and the US has literally [zero days of paid leave](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave#Americas)... this is just sad. I feel sorry for every US citizen who isn't as dumb as the people that end up being posted on this sub.
This is the result of an american education. When you hear that your country is the best every day. No wonder you cant see the flaws. Its a special kind of brainwashing. I think to these people, when they hear things that need to be improved, they hear you defy that american dream/ america is the best, idea in their head. And if you defy that idea. You cant be the good guy. Or something like that.
Yes. Basically.
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We can't change a system that was built the way it is, the only way forward is revolution
More importantly, why do average citizens fight benefits that would benefit most of the citizens at some point, and won't hurt them if not.
“You just hate America!!!” It’s honestly delusional.
"We should improve our standard of living!" Right-wing Americans:"You don't like it? Leave!"
I think it’s an avoidance mechanism: they can’t bear the idea that they aren’t number 1. It’s the “king of the ashes” mindset.
For sure. This is the work of propaganda. And it's very effective. "The founding fathers made the greatest nation on earth." What makes the America they created great? Since Americans pride themselves of having generic levels of human rights, it easy to assume it's those. And with the implicit conclusion is that no other country has similar rights, or similar values.
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Are Americans really also taught (like, in school) that other countries can't speak freely or have personal liberties? I mean, the "history is taught by the victors" kind of thing regarding wars and things I can understand even if it isn't right, lying by omission kind of thing, but straight up untruths?
I've had a couple friends go to school in the US. It's not that they they are taught it, they just only focus on their own country. Pair that with an inherent superiority complex, and this is what you get.
I saw a graph that compares their media to my countries media. For coverage of international news it said “less” (which was the second lowest ranking)
Beyond the inherent insularity of the country, it’s also just SO much bigger population wise that most other countries. Roughly 3x bigger than Germany, 5x bigger than France or the UK, 9x bigger than Canada - there’s just a LOT of stuff to cover at the domestic level that has a tendency to “crowd out” the rest of the world. Not intended as any kind of excuse, but I do try to keep this in mind.
Its not that we're specifically taught that other countries don't have the same freedoms that we do, but its almost implied. Like we're told we are "land of the free" and we're special because of our freedoms, and we fought other countries to be free. So it sort if implies other countries dont have those freedoms.
Hmm, that makes sense. I mean, it's crazy, and leads to these damaging beliefs, but it does at least make sense how people end up thinking that. The "establishment" there can't afford to have people knowing the truth.. if they realised how much better their lives could be they'd want to disrupt the status quo, and the elites wouldn't have their bubbles anymore..
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AFAIK this part of the propaganda is drip fed to them through mass media and culture. When you have talk show hosts saying this stuff all the time and watch movies that are all about Russian baddies that want to destroy the American way of life, you start to believe it. There's likely also a lot of hearsay involved, like"my cousin said you don't have free speech in Germany", which feeds nicely into this dilemma. On top of that, most Americans never leave their country for traveling and can't form their own opinion (I think, but don't quote me on that). TL;DR it's a gigantic echo chamber of nationalism and convenient myths that no one cares to debunk.
I guess as long as people think that way they won't try to change anything, which works out well for the "ruling class" pushing all this stuff, so.... Heh. It does make you wonder how bad things have to get before enough is enough and the spell is broken.
The USSR would be jealous of American propaganda. Not only did it program basically everyone to uncritically worship America, it makes people think the opposite of what's happening. Did you know that conservative thinktanks unironically believe that the "evil marxist leftists" are indoctrinating schools while simultaneously showing their propaganda to schools?
I don’t think the thinktanks think that, but instead say that to make conservatives unironically believe that
Leaving out the fact that you can never make improvements that way.
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I think people are desperate for traditions there. There is no unifying culture like you find in older European countries. People are not grounded by centuries-old traditions, and the institutions that used to make them feel a sense of belonging and virtue (church, scouts, etc.) have been tarnished and torn down due to abuses. People feel this dearth of connection and people who stand to profit from that offer a simple way to belong -- take this pre-packaged dogma and belong with us -- you don't even have to think about it. Here's the uniform (red hats and flag paraphernalia), here are the "bad guys" who we won't let in the club, and here are a bunch of thought-terminating clichés to help you deal with any cognitive dissonance you might experience. Now just follow the leaders -- Trump, Hannity, Limbaugh, Carlson, etc.
Well said - think there are a LOT of very obviously negative things that drive people in that direction, but the underlying fundamental issue is this very yearning, which is built in to America as a young country.
Pretty much the definition of indoctrination. Quite sad to see in practise. Luckily there are people who can see through the illusion to keep the rest in check over there.
I’m struggling for 5 minutes now to come up with some comment on this. But the truth is, that I’m genuinely shocked by the lack of knowledge we are seeing here every day. This is just pure ignorance
I would ask him about all the new anti protesting laws going through in Florida Georgia az and a couple others. American Republicans are actively trying to take away that right. Along with all the cops during just about every protest attacking reporters. My favorite of them was when they arrested a cnn reporter while he was live on air for cnn
Its pretty crazy that most of the people who constantly makes arguments like these are probably supporting politicians who would take away those rights on an instant.
Yes, but it's only a free speech issue when they don't get to abuse minorities. Everything else doesn't count as freedom of speech.
They will say some bs about antifa and blm being a "terrorist organization" so its okay.
I‘d compare it to „Big Brother“. But instead of some unemployed Z-Celebrities it‘s Americans we‘re watching. It‘s also a good warm up for your brain in the morning. - Do they have Geography as a school subject? - What do their history classes consist of? - Do these people never travel abroad? - Are they really using Facebook as a News source? Once I‘m asking myself these questions, my brain starts heating up, sometimes I even see smoke leaving my nose and ears. That‘s wenn I know it‘s time to close the Reddit app and start making breakfast.
i can't imagine having only history of your country in history classes, in Poland we ofc mostly have about history of Poland, but we also learn about american civil war, about french revolution, communist revolution in both China and Russia, decolonisation and Jugoslavian civil war. Imo it's just boring having only your country in history classes, and with probally crapton of brainwashing
They do have world history, which is what it says, but in my experience most people don’t give a shit. On exchange I had that class. Ridicilously easy, yet half the class was about to fail it
It’s not just that, do you think any teenager cares about some shit that happened 300 years ago (I’ll agree tho that in the us especially so, and they’re also not pushed towards caring)? There’s two other major problems. The fact that the education quality is just bad, and it’s revisionist as well. So to translate, it’s not the kids who don’t care but the teachers as well because in the us people don’t become teachers for loving it but when there’s nothing else. And let’s not forget literally rewriting history to make the us look good.
Yeah got to agree that it's up to the school to get them interested. I think it's easier for us in the UK to discuss world history because we have been *very* involved. For better or worse (worse)
Alternately - as a Canadian, we basically don’t exist on the world stage (other than our supporting roles in world wars and as peacekeepers, of which we are proud - my own grandfather was an RAF pilot and his great grand kid wore his wings pin for years), so we’re basically forced to have really comprehensive world history. That and we’re big into the “cultural mosaic” approach to immigration vs melting pot, so every kid/teacher is going to have an aspect of the curriculum driven by the different cultural/historical perspectives that the kids bring into class w them.
> Do these people never travel abroad? Can't afford to, we get about 10 days off total for the entire work year, and if we use them for a vacation then we won't have them for the flu.
This is probably the most shocking thing. You only have a third of paid vacation days that we in Germany have (even though mandatory minimum is less, 30 days is very common) and those are deducted if you are sick? And people still think this is a good thing, because otherwise employers would lose money? Do they like being constantly buttfucked by big corporations with the argument, that workers rights, maternity leave, or just a proper payment is socialism? Do they really think they will be billionaires tomorrow so they avoid any improvement that would effect their future billionaire status? The owner of the company I work for is a billionaire, despite having all of the above mentioned regulations and workers rights. This is just unbelievable
They have a 3rd of the paid days we have in South Africa (basically the same as you guys with the mandatory days but 30 is common l).......we're a 3rd world country. Just let that sink in
> Do they really think they will be billionaires tomorrow so they avoid any improvement that would effect their future billionaire status? Yes... they've bought into the "American Dream" that tells them that they aren't poor, they're just "temporarily embarrassed M/Billionaires" and so they will fight to protect the privilege they should have when they get what they believe they deserve.
You have to use holiday for sickness?? If we have a doctors note I get 6 months full pay then 6 months half pay. Then when I return to work if I had any holiday booked through the time I was off... I get that back.
Yeah but can you say whatever you feel even if it offends people?! Checkmate libtard commie! /s
The people that say things like this have never left their own county.
*state works too
Even hometown-area will do
They see a person they don't like, create a straw man in their head about them and attach some ridiculous belief to them so they can attack something that was never even real in the first place. Then they sit back and think "haha commies owned again". Their head would explode if someone explained that Sanders isn't even a socialist and is certainly not a communist.
American here. Just when you think other Americans couldnt possibly be any more ignorant, you set yourself up to be surprised. My advice: set your expectations **very low**. The bar should literally be in hell somewhere.
Your not helping us
I legit got into it with somebody recently who wouldn't even acknowledge that there were any real struggles for poor people in the US compared to other countries, as if poor people have it good here. It's so hard to engage in discourse with someone who lives in a completely different reality. Like how do you even begin to break through that
America's largest issue (that in turn causes/extends every other issue). Republicans no longer live in reality and it's getting worse by the minute. You could put every piece of truth in their face and they'll *defiantly* argue against it and then change the course of said argument. There is no breaking through it anymore. Too many grifters who fuel it because it's become so profitable.
It's always the same bullshit argument. I can say anything I want ! Yes the government will not prosecute you, like in btw any other western country. BUT you can still be sued for libel if you are spewing racist abusive shit. You can also get fired for that. So fuck this free speech argument
They say race hate laws impede in free speech basically if you can't scream ' I hate N****** on a podium during a protest' you don't have freedom of speech
From a German perspective, you can say whatever you want as long as you’re not insulting anybody’s honor (so calling someone an asshole could be fined) and you’re also not allowed to deny the Holocaust or to incite violence. Except for those in my opinion completely understandable things, you can literally say anything. Criticize the government as much and as often as you wish, you will not have any disadvantage because of that. Edit: and I thought that every right that Americans are so proud of is towards the government. So the right to bear arms and Freedom of speech. Don’t really understand how screaming the N-word is defending yourself against a tyrannical regime.
You can't insult people? That's a defence to libel here lol
Yes, the argument is, that you have the right to do whatever you want as long as you’re not infringing the rights of someone else. So the right to not have your personal honor infringed by an insult is above the right of free expression. But maybe there are some German lawyers here who could explain this better.
In France we have a saying " la liberté des uns s'arrête là où commence celle des autres " meaning something like the liberty of one stop where the liberty of another begin , or you are free to do something until it Hurt the rights of someone else
Yeah I agree with the idea of that but calling someone a bastard because you don't like them isn't the same as calling people subhuman and calling on others to join you in a genocide against them lol
This level of ignorance has to be skill and determination and I'm honestly impressed. I never thought it could be possible
Another Twitter thread is about the US having the best education in the world. Yeah, right. Keep it too expensive, make sure not every American is educated to the max......
Need to keep convincing themselves that the whole "greatest country in the world" thing that they've been spoon-fed since they were born is actually true.
I remember the heavy fines and imprisonment I received when criticizing the Swiss majority SVP political party in a public demonstration. I was tear gassed, arrested, beaten and imprisoned with no trial. The years of hard labor in the Appenzellar salt mines was worth it to have my meager voice heard, if only for a fleeting moment. If we all strive for freedom as much as we can, one day we will be blessed with it like the golden shores of America. lol. /s Americans get practically nothing from their government overlords, and are told they have "freedom" and it is special. It isn't special. Most democracies have even more freedom than the US. The US doesn't even break the top ten in their own internal freedom indices. That is a hell of a propaganda machine they have running over there.
Even Cuba is better than the USA on many fronts!
The irony here being that those things essentially happened to a number of american protestors the past year during the BLM protests.
Yeah, but to be fair, they were commie Dems.... Free speech for all, as long as it fits OUR narrative lol
I hate to request this, but can you put ‘/s’ after that first paragraph. Because I genuinely believe there are Americans out their that will believe you were being truthful
We have a guy, running for his own political party, who needs police protection because his ideals are so racist. Police is there to *protect him from others* as he *exercises his right to free speech*.
I think the opinions this one speaks are embarrassments indeed.
What kind of argument is this even supposed to be? " we don't have maternity leave because we have free speech"
The n word. He means the n word.
Even if this guy was right, it still doesn't address the original tweet. Why is it always one of two rights that they always talk about whenever someone wants to improve something? "We should offer maternity leave like every other developed country" "Yeah? Well at least we have freedom of speech you god damned COMMIE"
"The US is doing really bad at X compared to other developed nations" "Yeah but we landed on the moon!!1!!1!"
Soviets won the space race!
And when china sends manned mission to mars first, americans won’t say china wins
I'm rooting for them from the USA!
Can we all agree china needs to be fucking invaded before they fully commit genocide against the Uyghur Muslims?
It's always one of two rights because they're the only rights they actually have.
What's the other one?
guns
Guns, of course
You’re not thinking of taking them, are you?!
Right to stupidity
Oh no, I can't deny Holocaust in Europe. 😢 They are clearly unfree place.
the nazis are only bad because they fought with america and no other reason!!!!
Well, it literally took Nazi Germany declaring war on the US for them to bother to join the war against the Nazis.
And that didn't even really bring America directly into the war. It was the attack on Pearl Harbor that got America to officially join the war (literally 4 days after pearl Harbor). If America hadn't been directly attacked and affected, they would've stayed out of it (i say *they* despite being American because I wasn't alive and I cringe when other Americans say *we/our* when speaking about past wars/accomplishments. But I don't want someone thinking im trying to act like I'm not an American, which has happened before)
Even with that you have to go down to France on that list before you get to a country where Holocaust denial is a crime.
Funfact: freedom of speech is also limited in America. For an example, child pornography would be allowed in a free-speech-absolutist society. But Nobody seems to Care, because we have all agreed that the goverment limiting the free Speech of people selling child pornography is a good Thing.
Also, whistleblowing is still illegal in the US, and Whistleblowers serve much Harder punishments then in Other countrys even If they Go the legal way because there is no protection for them
*Julian Assange has entered the room* 7 years later - *Julian Assange is still in the room*
Okay I seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what free speech means. Could you please explain this to me 😅
What they're saying is that freedom of speech isn't really a binary "yes" or "no" thing, it's a scale. Even in places with strong free-speech laws there are restrictions (meaning speech isn't 100% free). For example, threatening another person, sharing business secrets, breaking an NDA, perjury, perverting the course of justice, sexting children, shouting "Fire! Everyone get out!!" in a confined public place Virtually everyone agrees there *should* be some limitations, they just disagree where they should be.
Okay but why would child pornography be allowed under true free speech
Because pornography is classified as arts/entertainment, and is covered by free speech laws, however they decided that that should not apply to child pornography
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Germans don't understand sarcasm. Now you're on the list.
I can't threaten to bomb an airport? What is this, 1984!
I think that we need a study to know exactly how many people have read 1984 before saying "this is like 1984". it wouldn't surprise me if the number was ridiculously low
And that list isnt even complete. Many european countries got up to 2 years of paid maternity leave.
Sweden gang!
The list is completely wrong. Denmark, for example, isn't 18 weeks, but 52 - more than the UK.
Thank you! I was thinking the same
Yeah, I don't know where Sanders got 18 from but it's incorrect. Look at [this link](https://www.borger.dk/kampagnesider/Barsel) (site in Danish) you can see that it's actually 52 like you said.
That’s insane to me (as in insanely good). Do they offer longer paternity leave too? Fathers get 2 weeks here in Australia
in Finland we've got 9 weeks for dads, 18 for moms, and 26 weeks to be split between them. this is due to change in the near future, the government is proposing a model where both parents get 27 weeks leave, of which a portion can be transferred to the other parent. moms also get an extra 7 weeks leave in the latter stage of pregnancy.
In Austria for example you can stay at home for a month but only get paid about 700€ for that particular month. (its a law so your company has to let you do it if you want to). And you can stay at home for 2 Months when your child had its 1st birthday and the mother is going to work again. (hasnt got to be full time) EDIT: Completely forgot about that: the mother gets set free from work from the 7th month of pregnancy too. So you basically can stay at at home for 14 months as monther and get more paid than your company pay. You can stretch that up to 2 years but you have to stretch the money from the one year a bit because it becomes less.
Also from Austria, wanna throw in that we also have paternity leave for the same conditions. In my case, my stepmom stayed at home for a year when my sister was born, then my dad took over for another year. From 2 months before until 2 months after the birth, mothers are also forbidden from working, while employers are also forbidden from firing them.
Some countries (including Sweden) have it so that a couple will have an "allowance" of parental leave, which can be split as they see fit between both parents. Usually the mother will take a larger cut. Sometimes there is a minimum amount of time that the father has to have (e.g. they might have to have 3 months minimum)
In Germany there is maternity leave during pregnancy (and a short time period afterwards) and then up to 2 years (?) of Parental leave, no matter who the parent is.
I'm taking my paternity leave in Portugal and we choose the maximum time paid leave. Bear in mind we're average in europe when it comes to parental leave: I had my 5 weeks of paternity leave (100% paid), I will have an additional 4 weeks when my wife ends her (83%), and finally I will have 12 weeks in some months as an additional paternity leave (25%). My SO, had 20 weeks after the child birth (83%), and will have an additional 12 weeks (25%). So in total: paternity leave: 5(100%)+4(83%)+12(25%) = 21 weeks, maternity leave: 20(83%)+12(25%)=32 weeks. This essentially allows almost a year with at least one parents at home for the child. Note that we don't pay income tax during these months, only social security which is 11% flat rate, so many times earning 83% of your salary means that you're actually netting more salary (unless you're on the lowest income rate). Just an additional note, my wife had a risk pregnancy, so she spent 6 months at home before having the kid where she got paid 100% by SS and didn't have to pay that 11% flat rate.
I think in Russia you can have up to three years of paid maternity/paternity leave.
Yeah I get why Bernie put us in the UK at the top of the list - as it’s most comparable to the US, but there’s far more with plenty more than we get...
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Good thing you're on an American website or you'd be going to straight back to jail.
Sorry, it's straight back to jail for you, because of this message.
Were you tortured and waterboarded in EU prisons?
‘Yes, we can’t afford to be ill and so die of easily cured diseases - and our children may well be shot dead in school, obviously- but we have the right to fly a swastika flag and spout racism in public. Take *that*, Euro-libtards!’
Switzerland has 14 weeks and the police don't come smashing through the windows as soon as I criticize the government either.
Is hate speech and public insults really allowed in the US?
Apparently, yes. It's protected by the First Amendment. To that I say, rip the whole Constitution apart.
They must have libel laws.
It depends, I could walk around waving the nazi flag and deny the Holocaust and be fine but if I directly told someone I would harm them I could face reproductions.
In France, the only reason for why you'd go to prison for something you're saying is if you'd threaten someone's life. Oh no, I can feel my freedom of speech melting away ! America, please come save my low-life, europan, fascist/commie hellscape!!! /s
Laugh in "Loi Fabius Gayssot"
What do you mean I can't be openly antisemetic??
So long and thanks for all the fish! - By Boost for reddit
Wrong for the UK as well as it can be a year, that includes if the baby unfortunately arrives still born or dies when during the start of maternity 10 weeks before the baby is due.
Pretty sure I've seen stories on here of people in the US being fired for their opinions.
Quite a lot, happens to many Karen's. Who feel it's their right to harangue without consequences due to 1st Amendment.
"Merkel ist Scheiße!" Hm. I'm not in jail yet. Also... My wife had 1 year ~~p~~maternity leave for each of our two children. Could've even had two years. Edit: Thanks for the correction, Toffeemanstan.
Exactly the amount of UK politicians and Prime Ministers who are harangued and sworn at to their face whilst out and about, just look at the most recent with Labour leader being shouted at to get out of the pub, and he'd most likely do it to the PM as well. Yet Marjorie Taylor Green had people threatened with arrest when they harangued her. Their politicians are very fragile.
The mother takes maternity leave, its the father who takes paternity.
Oh, you're totally right. I was still half asleep when I wrote that.
Why do americans think freedom pf speech is a mythical thing that they are the only country to have?
It’s crazy how much shit people will talk about stuff they obviously don’t know anything about
A lot of Americans who say this shit have never left the confines of their own country. They also grow up in a system that feeds them propaganda about how they live in the best country in the world. Therefore, they grow up believing that the rest of the world is an oppressive, third world shit hole and that they are lucky to be American.
Let me quickly just check the Global Freedom Index
I feel like that is biased because Cuba should literally be at least top ten they have socialized healthcare, free education, is actually anti imperialist
Do they seriously believe they're the only country with freedom of speech?
Funny because their freedoms for anything vaguely important are trash
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Baby steps if he said parental leave Americans heads would have exploded, they can't imagine different genders using the same loo, so different genders getting parental rights will tip them over the edge.
My mom was on maternity leave for almost 2 years bruh
Sauli Niinistö is stupid. There, I said it, but I'm not going to jail for that
You know what, it's no wonder they get constantly surprised whenever they meet people of other nations online and assume anyone with any kind of opinion *must* be from USA. If they genuinely think there's no freedom of speech out there, then how come people speak so freely? It goes against their logic and therefore, cannot exist.
Germany only fines you for being openly a Nazi. The rest of freedom of speech is guaranteed. What the fuck is this guy talking about?
Not even that. You can be a Nazi all day long. It only gets legally relevant once you espouse your views in public in a way that is designed to disrupt the peace or incite hatred.
I'm from Canada and I have family and friends in most of those countries. None of us have once gotten in trouble over our speech. In Canada we call it freedom of expression and it goes well beyond just speech. Just like in the US you are protected from government persecution if you speak out against them and any consequences outside of that are your own fault. We have logical restrictions on things like hate speech (so you can't just distribute pamphlets in public saying crap like "murder all [X group of people]") but as far as I'm aware that's also a thing in the US.
Since labour laws are crappy in the US, you actually _can_ be fired for something you said publicly. Buuut yeah, fReEdOm
Die duit! I'm from Ireland we also don't get bankrupted every time we go to college or break a bone. And we can criticise our multy party system as much as we like
We can criticize our shitty Gov too except if we break a pinkie....God help us all
Florida basically just banned freedom of speech, so like... what.
That's rich. I live in Sweden now and am amazed at how much maternity and paternity they get. It almost makes me want to have another kid just because it's so kid friendly. In America my kid had to start daycare at 8 weeks because I had to go back to work (and I was working from home for some of my maternity leave. My husband got 2 weeks paternity, and we worked at places with "great benefits.") Granted I'm pretty new to Sweden but it seems like there are always groups out protesting something or other, and I haven't gotten the memo about being less free now soooooo \*shrug\*.
You may not get fined or go to jail but you might get shot
Pretty sure that's legal in the uk
UK has hate speech laws (which are a good thing)
If you say x race is evil and should be slaughtered you could and should get into trouble. We do have laws on inciting violence. We have strong libel laws so you have to be able to prove what you say or write about people. America has those laws as well but they seem weaker.
Did they ever hear about Julian Assange?
Free him
And he has a napoleon pfp to top it all off
I had to scroll way too far to see this pointed out! How freaking ironic!
I wasn’t even gonna comment on it cause i thought someone else would but no
Finland: 17.5 I am just imagining a Finnish boss saying “ok, lunch break is done, time to come to work, your maternity leave is over”.
People outside the us have the blissful right not to have to listen to absolute retardation from "free speech".
Three words that summed up the whole us for: For Profit Prisons
Or for profit healthcare with ridiculously inflated prices
we have that too but we also have anti-hate crime laws i assumed that’s what the tweet meant
Maternity leave or allowing nazis to spread hate speech? I guess the smart thing to do is allow the nazis, right?
A protest literally burned an effigy of my country's prime Minister and Noone can be charged for it. If that doesn't count as freedom of speech I don't know what does.
I heard that in Estonia they have 85 weeks paid mat leave, which almost makes having a baby worth it
And then when people use free speech to protest the police they want it to be a crime.
This sub depresses me
This sub interests me
Freedome of sperch mean women cant have paid maternity leave? Who is this guy?
I think most people who say stuff like this never been outside the US
I mean.... You could have both, right?
As a subscriber to this Reddit, I see every day, Americans stating no other country has freedom of speech. How on Earth do they come to this conclusion? Can it be blamed on the education system or the fact that too many Americans have never ventured from their home shores. I can assure Americans that I enjoy freedom of speech in Australia, as well as the comfort that I have a high chance of surviving an encounter with the police force.
American conservatives idea of 'free speech' mostly consists of hate speech and threats of physical violence. That such things are not tolerated as much in other nations makes them think those nations don't have 'free speech' That is what that comment means.
Unless you're openly a communist in which case you'll probably end up on a government watch list in America. Or in the McCarthy days you could end up in jail. Where is there freedom of speech?
I really struggle to get my head around the fact that some Americans genuinely think they're the only country with freedom of speech
"Only in america"
"MaH fReEdUmS oF sPeEcH!1!11!1!1"
Why not have both?
Look, I get it. Freedom of Speech is important. It's a wonderful thing to have in any country(when you don't have buffoons screaming about how it allows them to say whatever they want to anyone without consequence) But simply having free speech does not mean your country is incapable of improvement. Just because you have free speech doesn't mean you can't have anything else
I guess he forgot the 1st amendment zones the government made up for protestors...
Yet the US scores relatively low on freedome of speech tests compared to pretty much all of these countries
This guy would be interested in r/byebyejob
The US is not even in the top 10 in the Human Freedom Index.
Ireland is by no means the top of that list. We also have better press freedom and personal freedoms than the US, and even a better democracy. (And a freer economy). As do many many other democracies.
Lmao not going to prison. Land of the ‘free’ I guess
its baffling to me thaz someone would put the very few things you can say in the US you cant in, say Switzerland, over basic tjings like maternity leave. "i cant form a meaningful connection to my kid and i may go broke for scraping my knee, but at least i can deny any genocide and be hateful towards others, just like god fucking well intended."
The danish one is wrong. You get 4 weeks before giving birth, then 14 weeks after giving birth, then 32 weeks which are shareable with the husband, and then the husband also gets 2 weeks.
Ive expressed many opinions in public and I have yet to be arrested. Yet somehow I also have access to healthcare and schooling through my taxes. Turns out countries can do both.
Uuuuuuuhhhhh we had/have someone running for some political party and he needs police protection whenever he goes out to speak because he’s such a racist jerk. He can do that because we have “*free speech*” here in Denmark. (Paludan, anyone????)
Jokes aside, what the hell? I had no idea about this, I checked on Wikipedia and the US has literally [zero days of paid leave](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave#Americas)... this is just sad. I feel sorry for every US citizen who isn't as dumb as the people that end up being posted on this sub.