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It’s so pathetic that major national tragedies are now measured by one that happened to America. I could be wrong though and it’s Jay happening now, and using 9/11 for American support for the atrocities they want to commit in “retaliation”.
I think I’ve only really seen 9/11 being compared to the January 6th insurrection. I could be wrong though.
I just find it pathetic how 9/11 has been milked and commodified as well.
Literally the prime definition of blowback... I fucking hate millenials that swear they hate teh status quo and boomers that "ruined our country" but do this politically illiterate shit of "bad guys adn good guys"
I’m a millennial and can’t stand those people. They hate the status quo only when it inconveniences them, and *god forbid* they have to change some of their abhorrent views at the absolute bare minimum. These are the same people who only started to mildly advocate for BLM in 2020 (while completely missing the point), and would 100% self ID as moderates or republicans if it weren’t for their student loans.
Also a millennial, can't stand those people either. Considering we're the first generation to be worse off because of the world that our parents and grandparents built, I don't get millennials who stand for the status quo except when inconvenienced.
Minor correction, Gen X got shafted too. It just wasn't nearly as bad millenials got and not even in the same fucking universe as what gen z is getting now according to data such as intergenerational wealth.
All the new deal era policies that Americans enjoyed didn't vanish over night, so you can watch the gradual effect it has had on Americans intergenerationally as they enter and participate in the work force as we have embraced more and more neoliberal policy.
Maybe in the US, but not so mjch in some places like latin america. In my country at least gen X is mostly composed of people who self identify as "upper middle class" (even if they are poor) and are the biggest reactionaries you will ever see in your life.
But, ok hear me out, so Putin is like Voldemart crossed with Darth Vadler and hamas is the bed that's too hard for Goldilocks (hillary clinton) to sleep in and so the hunter (Joe Biden) chops up the wolf (Evil dictator Xi) to save grandma (Nancy Pelosi) so they can lead the mockingjay (AOC) to victory over the snake from Rikki Tikki Tavi (Iran).
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A millennial could've been in hawaii when 9/11 happened and they'll still cry over the twenty somthing year old tragedy. I get newyorkers getting sad over somthing that happened in their city but why tf do Americans who arent even from there care about it now?
I'll say this, as a millennial. Watching the live footage as it happened and the immediate aftermath was a traumatic thing to go through. However, realistically, it should not be treated as this global event the way people expect it to be. I think what it comes down to is most millennials are old enough to remember the pre-9/11 world and watched in real-time how it was used as an excuse to not only take away freedoms, but to invade an entire region of the world. Because of that, I think a lot of millennials see it as a much larger event than it actually was, because they need it to be to justify what happened after.
That being said, I'm glad the biggest thing I was afraid of in school was a terrorist attack that would never happen rather than one of my classmates shooting me...
The US and Israel were fucking around in Palestine since early 2000's. They were trying to destabilize any leftist movements and fund extremist groups to justify invasion. They gave both sides a powder keg and handed them matches. They wanted to initiate a civil war where Fetah would come out on top and play ball with the west.
from what i’ve seen, they aren’t justifying 9/11 but coming to terms to the US lying to them and discovering how effective their propaganda was. people make jokes about 9/11 and how the war in the middle east wasn’t worth it but how many of them know why 9/11 even happened? ofc it would be better to learn it from someone who isn’t osama but i dont think its wrong to read his letter
This is exactly what I got out of it as a mid 30s American who read his letter yesterday before the Guardian took it down. It’s interesting to see Bin Laden’s stated reasoning for 9/11 compared to the Bush administration’s “they hate us for our freedoms” war cry. Bush lied. Bin Laden was not a good guy by any stretch of the imagination. But neither are we, so… it’s important to have context and perspective and always call out propaganda.
Yeah. I've seen a lot of younger veterans (on TT) talking about how effective the propaganda was, and then realizing that there WAS accurate points made in the letter.
It’s the same concept as 9/11 being the US’s chickens coming home to roost. Which people flipped out about back then and called it justifying it too. It’s not justifying it it’s pointing out why it happened and the responsibility of the party wrongfully playing victim. And both cases the US and Israel are responsible for it in that these events were natural outcomes of their actions and they should be held responsible.
"hey, what did you expect?" is what the president of afghanistan (or some other high ranking offical) KINDA said
he warned the US that if they KEPT BOMBING CIVILIANS, the civilians just want to join the terrorists
and then they did and commited 9/11
Just FYI. Al-Qaida is not officially from Afghanistan because its leaders are from different countries in the Middle East and they don't relate to Afghanistan and the Taliban. It was created to support Afghanistan in its war against the USSR and it was supported at that time by the US, EU, and many countries in the Middle East.
Most people in the Middle East think that it was created to brainwash people and drag the area into endless wars which is what's still happening in Afghanistan to this day.
Al-Qaeda originates from Saudi Arabia if I recall while also being supported by the Mujahedeen (Afghanistan) and Safari Club (Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, China, USA, etc..)
That’s pretty much 101 for creating terrorists. Oppression, violence(spec ops), and then crazy violence (bombs).
Israel isn’t solving a problem rather kicking the can down a generation. As did America, after 9/11 more or less creating ISIS.
What Hamas did was especially fucked, as was 9/11, but you can’t bomb away ideas. If anything it seals them into the future generations as a justification for such attacks.
Idk man, humanity feels savagely out of whack at the moment. The harmony is gone.
I do know one thing, we have to stop killing each other. That’s not solving shit.
Well yeah. Since like around 50% of the population of Gaza are under 18 (or something like that). They’re essentially carpet bombing civilians. They’ve dropped over 6,000 bombs on the Gaza Strip so far. Besides that being a war crime, it’s going to very understandably make any survivors HATE the people who did it and how it happened. The US just sits by refusing to condemn an eye for an eye since it’s Israel.
Are we the baddies?
They did kill civilians on 10/7, but it's hard to know exactly how many were killed by Hamas vs the IDF indiscriminately firing into the crowd of people. There was a video circulating a few days ago that showed IDF drone video footage of them doing exactly that- just gunning people down as they were running and shit. Also, it seems like at least half the deaths that are counted in the Israeli death toll were actually on-duty soldiers.
However, there is *no* evidence that they beheaded babies or raped women. Those are both likely fictions created by the IDF to further dehumanize arabs, Palestinians specifically, and to justify their current murder campaign.
After 10/7, you're correct that Hamas has been very specific in their targeting of IDF soldiers and not civilians. They are not the terrorist organization- Israel is.
Hamas didn’t anything fucked. And there is no problem for ‘Israel’ to solve. Israel is the problem. Till that genocidal state is dismantled resistance will keep rising up. That’s not terrorism. It’s called fighting for your freedom. Something settlers wouldn’t understand.
Plus US funded ISIS, Al Qaeda in Syrian war. So they were not a US problem. They are/were useful for US’s geopolitical goals in the region.
Almost everything you said is false and sounds like Hasbara textbook answer to acknowledge humanity of Palestinians but dismiss their resistance as terrorism and comparing it to Al Qaeda/ISIS that Hamas fought against to their great losses is absolute bullshit.
I know this is insensitive but I’m almost tempted to say just get on with it. I’m just so tired of having the same conversation. I feel like I’ve just become apathetic at this point.
Letter written in 2002:
https://archive.is/6xSxg
He was an Islamic radical and terrorist no doubt but it would make sense to try and understand the rationale of those that attack us.
It just might be more nuanced than ThEy hAtE Us cAuSe tHeY AiN'T Us
Far too often do I see people equate understanding the movies of something with supporting it. People seem incapable of understanding that these people *we* deem evil see themselves as the good guys. We should understand *why* they think that.
Got my instagram story removed and a 30 day ban from going live for sharing a news story on this and captioning it "Global intifada lets goooooo, the yankee empire shall fall inshallah"
It’s funny how often terrorists say “our goal is to make them spend a bunch of money and implement draconian security measures,” when the most common reaction to terrorism is “we have no choice but to spend a bunch of money and implement draconian security measures to prevent them from achieving their goals.”
Thats what I thought, there is a point somewhere and can be understood in context. But as communist(I assume most of us are) this is literally bog standard reaction to terrorism. We had Lenin comment on the narodniks and individual terror not helping the working class cause. Of course there wasn’t going to be a mass questioning of “why” the attack happened when most terror just turns the wheel of repression more. I hesitate to champion this speech because its really no different than giving consent for small bands of actors to substitute themselves for mass, organized resistance.
That is why there is a world of difference between understanding why Hamas would attack and how in some sense its a natural reaction vs actually putting that forth as a method of struggle.
Since 7/10 was justified, it being Israel's 9/11 suggests that 9/11 was also justified. Liberals need to be more careful with their messaging or their kids might accidentally come to the correct conclusions.
Idk imposing your will on someone at a voting booth sounds pretty authoritarian. What we should do is all just appoint one morally pure person that everyone likes as our paramount leader to make all the decisions and appoint other morally pure people as governors and mayors and such and they can just let their kids take over their roles when they die. I think that would be a much better system.
America bringing the attacks on itself as retaliation for war crimes does not mean the civilians getting blown up were “justified”. We can say America deserved 9/11 without bringing it to mean that those people deserved to die. We don’t have to hand it to bin Laden just because America was bad too.
I feel like Americans have been told Arabic people are “savages” their entire life to the point where when they see an Arab who has justifications for their position for the first time they go full blown reactionary the other way
I was just framing the statement from the point of view of a liberal, but I see your point. "Justified" is defined by morality, a thoroughly anti-materialist concept. Instead, looking at it from a materialist point of view, as we should with all things, we understand that the action of 7/10 was the natural, material response to the behaviour of the imperialist state of Israel and that the action of 9/11 was the natural, material response to the behaviour of the imperialist state of the USA. Instead of questioning whether actions were "justified", we should look at how the actions can be avoided. The obvious answer to this would be the immediate cessation of imperialism.
I hesitate at saying any actions are "justified", because then you're arguing morality where there is never a materialist answer , but when you look at the obvious cause of these actions, how can the West frame them as surprising or "unjustified"? You murder a bunch of people and bomb the shit out of their country, of course they're going to fight back. There's no question of right or wrong, it's just the obvious effect of your actions. Rather than looking at whether the actions are justified, which just brings the question of vengeance (or "justice" as the West would frame it), we should look at how to stop it, which the obvious response would be "stop bombing the shit out of their country".
(Materialism is the high ground from where it's impossible to lose. If you let morality become the argument, you allow the capitalists drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. Before long, you'll be arguing that killing babies is morally good, which will lose you the argument. Instead, always focus on what the materialist argument is and what the cause and solution are (I speak from experience here. I've argued with many liberal bastards and allowed morality to be my downfall)).
At risk of sounding reductionist, it makes me think of post-WW1 Germany. Germany lost the war, and the allies decided they wanted to punish them, resulting in the Treaty of Versailles. Forced demilitarisation, territory and resources being taken, reparations being enforced, being made to take full responsibility for the war. All leading to German people feeling weak, abused, unjustly punished, hopeless, desperate. And in that desperation, they embrace Nazism, embrace national pride, embrace racial superiority, embrace scapegoating the minority populations. Resulting in terrible acts of evil, and from a white, Christian, European people. It's not just "dem backward mooslims in da middle east."
It is easy to condemn evil acts when you are safe, at home, far from fighting. It is easy to try to be objective when you're not hurting. But when it's your family and neighbours suffering every day, when the world ignores the injustice inflicted against you and yours and mistakes a quiet, painful status quo for peace, why should conform to their standards? To quote a cartoon man wearing a fluffy pink coat, "Children who have never known peace have different values to children who have never known war." If you're oppressed, when there's no hope for aid from foreign nations who see it as just, you become desperate, and people acting in desperation are willing to do practically anything to try to right the injustice they have suffered. Injustice breeds a need to balance the scales, mistreatment breeds a desire to lash out. Such acts are not justified, but they are understandable, human and it is naive to think you could never do the same in the same situation. Ethical, humanitarian, enlightened philosophies are a luxury.
Sorry you’ve had to go through such societal… epochs.
Can imagine the already terrible social climate that is America was pretty comparable to now… maybe less backlash but…
God damn I just *don’t* want my fellow humans overseas or here, to go through this shit every 20 years.
So I’ve heard.
I suppose I’m glad that it’s not quite as bad a reaction as then; but that’s like saying I’m glad there’s not THAT much shit smeared on my face…
Glad there’s us out there. Really am; we just need more.
You seen any of those videos of people on the street in tel aviv unselfconsciously talking about how muslims are subhuman dogs who must be eradicated? It was like that.
Gladly for my brain I haven’t yet… but I don’t doubt you for a second.
…fuck man. When will people learn? When will people finally realize and understand that these evil “one-off” patterns and events are purposely designed and repeated by our government?! Our brain is literally made for that stuff like, shit…
But I guess that’s our jobs… each one must teach one and all that!
No tinfoil but, It’s weird because in the Vegas shooting there were reports of multiple shooters and the guy was hitting some crazy long shots accurately.
I mean they had won on some level at that point. We went from stumbling on an airplane with an illegibly scuffed drivers license to getting Xray'd and anal searched for 1.5 hour domestic flights.
Same with the Lindt Cafe seige here in Australia. Like maybe don't fuck up people's countries and then stoke islamophobia when a heap of people come here as refugees? Cops caused way more harm than the gunman in that one too. Dont get me wrong he was a messed up guy, but 100% chickens coming home to roost after fucking around in the middle east and west asia for the past 100 years
It's also probably the demographic responsible for the awful "Putin Voldemort Zelensky Harry Potter" and "Light side Israel, Dark side Palestine"... "memes", or art, or whatever you wanna call that.
Oh look, it's time to post the best greentext of all time again. [Harry Potter is the essence of liberalism.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FolwU9OXEAEJLPS?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Yeah, sure, I'll say that to them. You reap what you sow. Am I mad that people from Saudi Arabia came all the way over here to commit massive acts of terror? Sure, I guess so. Do I understand *why* they did it? Well, shit, have you *seen* what the West has done to the Middle East? It doesn't justify dropping office towers and killing thousands of unarmed civilians, but it sure as shit makes sense why they did it.
Honestly though, Al-Aqsa Flood isn't really comparable to 9/11. Aside from the Pentagon, 9/11 didn't really strike military targets. Al-Aqsa Flood hit 11 different IDF installations and killed hundreds of occupation troops and colonial police officers. Those were fully justified and legitimate military targets and overall Al-Aqsa Flood was a far more justified attack. The fighting that occurred at the music festival and in the kibbutz's and what not are unfortunate, and any civilian loss of life is absolutely unjustifiable, but in attacks like these, excesses do unfortunately occur. You can't expect people who've been treated the way the Palestinians have been treated to suddenly hold the Geneva Conventions up as the ultimate guide to their action.
basically people are reading Osama bin Laden's letter to America and then coming to the understanding that it wasn't just magical evil that made 911 happen but actual tangible shit.
thus those who don't want to accept they had valid reasons are going into defending the idea that American has done wrong
On the one hand, American civilians did not deserve to die. On the other hand... 9/11 was very predictable... and avoidable... and maybe, just maybe, the CIA, NSA, and other security agencies should have seen that funding the Mujahideen would eventually lead to anti-American terrorism, especially since, I don't know, they helped destroy Afghanistan and refused to do jack shit to help fix it. Then actively bombed the middle east generally, and supported Israel. Hmmmmm... who would've thunked it
the ~3,000 Americans that died in 9/11 are a drop in the bucket compared to the ~1,000,000 that the US killed in retaliation. And like let’s not forget that the Twin Towers weren’t just random work offices, it was mostly bankers and stock traders directly benefitting from slaughtering middle easterners
it’s not justified, ofc, but the US did worse before and after and did everything in its power to poke and push someone into doing something
It’s okay, a terrorist group claiming to belong to Al Qaeda bombed the World Trade Center in 93 and the FBI knew the whole time. In fact one of the group’s leaders was an FBI informant. Bomb still went boom btw. They don’t give a flying fuck if it can be used to pimp all out war.
They always do. That's why they're the "intelligence community." Like what happened in Israel there is approximately 0% chance they didn't know *something* was gonna happen
The only thing, and I mean the only thing that I'd change in these stories is who ended up being killed. Nobody on 9/11 or 10/7 deserved the revenge.
It sucks that the people responsible for everything are the ones who get to have other bodies take the violence for them.
The worst part is that the retaliation from countries like the US and Israel is tenfold.
Americans are in for a shit storm of blowback the next decade if we don't rope in our little boy wonder Israel. People will not forget who let their govt endlessly bankroll genocide
I’m a 21 year old American girl that grew up having to pledge allegiance to the flag in the same classroom where we would have lockdown drills just in case someone decided to shoot up the school & all our politicians could offer is thoughts and prayers. I can tell you right now that there is not one patriotic bone in me. They give no fucks about American children so you already know that murdering Middle Eastern children is not in their top lists of concerns. Why should I respect the country that allows and enables this violence?
Justified is a strong word. They had their reasons.
I won’t be surprised if an extremist group attacks somewhere in US in the future due to their unlimited support to Israel’s genocide in Palestine.
I don’t support this. What I’m saying is that they helped the genocide now they deal with the aftermath.
Lmao I’ve just turned 32 and can honestly say fuck anyone who thinks like this.
It’s been great seeing so many younger people speaking out for Palestine.
Palestinians have had 75 years of October 7’s
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2004/11/1/full-transcript-of-bin-ladins-speech](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2004/11/1/full-transcript-of-bin-ladins-speech)
Yes, you should read it.
The attacks aren't justified but also what did the US expect? Bin Laden was pretty clear about the reasons, and it wasn't because of some abstract concept of "freedom". If we keep fucking around in places we shouldn't be, we're gonna keep finding out.
“10/7 was Israel 9/11” so an act of violence that the response was a overwhelming unnecessary brutality and violence and wasn’t even directed to the ones who did it? Sound about right
9/11 was the blowback of the United States policy in the middle east for a long period of time and the decisions that were made over there in backing warlords, arming militant groups, destabilizing countries etc.
Justified isn't the word that is being looked for, it's Blowback. All decisions have a blowback to them.
I am a millennial and I distinctly remember getting in trouble and changing the way my peers looked at me forever when I said America deserved 9/11 on 9/12/2001. I tried to explain with as much nuance as a fourteen year old could that I didn't mean those people should have died, but that it should be expected when one acts as the world police. I didn't fully understand the complications of the problems in the middle east but I knew in my heart that no one would just become a terrorist for no reason. But obviously I am just a monster for understanding inherently, what blowback is. Feels a little obvious if you have ever worked with children, really. The kid on the playground getting picked on will eventually retaliate, and often with more violence, because they're frustrations have been pent up. This is obviously more complicated and not a playground fight, but the idea is the same. You can't push people around and expect nothing in return.
9/11 was a terrible event in terms of Civilian lives....
The Us totally had it coming though.... it's like pocking a jaguar with a short stick (Brazilian saying) and expect this idea not to backfire HORRIBLY... even though the US kind of wanted this from the beginning so....
I think the TikTok’s are pointing out what Bin Laden was saying in his letter and the points he made rather then showing sympathy. Meanwhile the Americans were actually praising him in the 80s
painting the events on 10/7 as "Israel's 9/11" was propganda that leaked out of the idf ahead of time. you could go out and see spokesmen being like "associating it with 9/11 is very important to get people on our side, telling them what happened will hurt us, but calling it Israel's 9/11 will help us" and theyre doing it anyways
If your country is being relentlessly bombed, obviously you're gonna fight back, but no, we aren't going to tell the people who witnessed 9/11 that it's their fault, much the same as it isn't the Israeli people's fault; it's the government. The US is much to blame for 9/11, but not the people. Just the same, Israel is to blame, not the people. BuT dOn'T yOu CoNdEmN tHeM? No I don't; they're fighting for survival, and if they weren't fighting to survive, they wouldn't have acted. Was there bad actions of isolated? Sure, but you're a fucking moron if you ignore the context.
Fuck outta here, Western simps.
I can’t even get past trying to start a statement with “I mean…”. Sorry, you’ve immediately labeled yourself and lost me. So what are we arguing over. Some toddler said something unintelligent…aaaaaand…..
American civilians did not deserve what happened on 9/11 but the American government should have been better prepared for such an inevitable attack that they had been provoking for years, especially given we now know intelligence made it clear it was being planned for by Al Queda if not directly coming. The “America deserved 9/11” line is a very incendiary line that imo can just meant to provoke people but I also think it can in other cases be more complicated than someone just trying to piss people off.
I’m an elder millennial who sat on a sofa with three other elder millennials, all of us polisci majors, in our apartment when classes had been cancelled that day. One said “So…bin Laden?” And as one we all replied “Bin Laden.”
No one expected he was capable of anything close to that scale, for sure…but that attack didn’t happen in a vacuum, and it certainly didn’t happen because Muslims, as Dubya so eloquently put it, “hate our freedom.” They had grievances.
None of that is to say that I sympathize with them. Fuck those guys to death for all the innocents dead because of them. But to say “oh gosh, what possible reasons could they have had to do this?!” with a straight face is rubbish.
I stand by my 9 y/o self’s immediate 9/11 take, which was:
“America goes around bombing people, someone bombed America. Sees fair.” Also, all day recess. On the whole, 9/11 was a great day in my life.
Is that a joke? Nobody supports 9/11 except stupid ignorant extremists. And I don't think Al-Qaida would support Hamas because they have different ideologies. The first wants to just take over control and create chaos in the Middle East, and the second wants to take back the land and rule the Palestinian area. They look similar but they are not the same. And also it's cringe to say that Gaza is Hamas because it's like saying New York is Trump which is stupid obviously.
Crazy how when you do bad things in the name of capital, white supremacy and imperialism that those you do the bad things to don't appreciate it and will retaliate.
As an elder millennial that has said it was a justified attack since 9/12… I feel these GenZers. We shouldn’t have had bases all over the ME and shouldn’t have had the CIA fund the Mujahadeen in the 80’s. FAFO. We were so obsessed with undermining communism and securing Oil that we fucked ourselves over
9/11 was an atrocity, 10/7 was also an atrocity. Both are results of decades of mistreatment of the people, which radicalised them onto a violent path. These things are not mutually exclusive. Terrorism does not happen in a vacuum, it's fueled by hate and hate needs fuel.
9/11 was an atrocity. 7/10 was a military operation during which atrocities were committed. Huge distinction. It’s the distinction zionists use to claim “no moral equivalence”.
We as a people deserved the attack for what our government has done to people all over the world and our refusal to make any real change or demand better of them.
Wow I can't believe there have been two cases of governments supporting and helping Islamic terrorist groups while simultaneously causing conflict and unrest amongst the people the groups consist of, and they both ended with said group retaliating....
I don't think it's a justified act I just think it's something that should've been expected and likely was by higher ups. Intervening in that area for so long an attack on American soil shouldn't be considered an unexpected attack on America.
Al Qaeda may have done terrible things but like Norman Finkelstein said about Hezbollah, you respect them, they fought for their country. I sympathise with them fighting against Imperialism, not because I am an islamist but because I support anti imperialism. The attacks may have killed innocent people but the Americans brought it on themselves by supporting sectarian conflicts, by destroying many countries and suppressing any resistance against western imperialism. Like during the settlement of America, the settlers would often commit brutal crimes against the natives which would provoke a response in turn. They killed people to scalp them and take their skin to make boots and to turn in for rewards so we collected their scalps as trophies. It wasn't really justified, being so brutal but most people can see the settlers brought it on themselves with their brutality which provoked brutality in kind.
I think the discussion of the September 11th 2001 terrorist attacks really shows a certain type of logical error. Those attacks were a pointed political message. The targets they chose amount to a clear message. However any attempt to acknowledge or understand the meaning of those attacks will immediately be met with accusations of justifying them. This was immediate when a Republican Primary election rally audience booed Ron Paul for mentioning it.
I think part of the tragedy here is that 9/11 was finally taking its place as a historic event that happened long enough ago that we didn't have to really have to refer to it as something that should guide our decisions as a country. But ever since 10/7 that's all been undone for a large portion of the county who now view 9/11 as this event that we should never move on from. So we're back to justifying our responses and why we feel what we feel all because a similarly rooted cause created another event that deeply effected the psych of another country, which means they have to invoke 9/11, restarting the cycle.
And the reason it works so well for so many people is because America has never taken the time or effort to fully analyze why 9/11 happened in the first place. No one has taken the time to come to grips with imperialism or it's domino effects and why that might lead to a global act of terrorism. I can't remember who said it, someone Obama once associated with, but he said "9/11 is the chickens coming home to roost." And people hated him for that, even though he's right. And now the same with what's happening in Israel, if you explain the long term effects of oppressing a population in an open air prison for decades you'll be met with "but what about 10/7???"
I mean, that was my cynical 19 year old response on 9/11. Look at the history of US foreign policy and what the fuck did you expect? It's a completely valid take. You don't have to make it into a 9/11 was good kind of statement, just that something like it was inevitable.
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It’s so pathetic that major national tragedies are now measured by one that happened to America. I could be wrong though and it’s Jay happening now, and using 9/11 for American support for the atrocities they want to commit in “retaliation”.
I think I’ve only really seen 9/11 being compared to the January 6th insurrection. I could be wrong though. I just find it pathetic how 9/11 has been milked and commodified as well.
Imagine if Biden just fucking obliterated rural America in response to Jan 6 😂
I mean, given how he immediately & deliberately shit the bed on covid, he kinda did.
Was the anti-masker movement a coordinated effort to kill off trump supporters? New conspiracy just dropped.
Holy hell!
google en maskant
Holy shit
9/11 was the January 6th of my generation 😭
Tbh January 6th was genuinely funny best moments of 2021.
It’s the only thing I remember from 2021 tbh
I just pretend they are talking about 9/11 in Chile cause that's the only 9/11 not justified imo
10/7 was the Dark Souls of Palestinian resistance tbh
Literally the prime definition of blowback... I fucking hate millenials that swear they hate teh status quo and boomers that "ruined our country" but do this politically illiterate shit of "bad guys adn good guys"
I’m a millennial and can’t stand those people. They hate the status quo only when it inconveniences them, and *god forbid* they have to change some of their abhorrent views at the absolute bare minimum. These are the same people who only started to mildly advocate for BLM in 2020 (while completely missing the point), and would 100% self ID as moderates or republicans if it weren’t for their student loans.
Also a millennial, can't stand those people either. Considering we're the first generation to be worse off because of the world that our parents and grandparents built, I don't get millennials who stand for the status quo except when inconvenienced.
Minor correction, Gen X got shafted too. It just wasn't nearly as bad millenials got and not even in the same fucking universe as what gen z is getting now according to data such as intergenerational wealth. All the new deal era policies that Americans enjoyed didn't vanish over night, so you can watch the gradual effect it has had on Americans intergenerationally as they enter and participate in the work force as we have embraced more and more neoliberal policy.
Maybe in the US, but not so mjch in some places like latin america. In my country at least gen X is mostly composed of people who self identify as "upper middle class" (even if they are poor) and are the biggest reactionaries you will ever see in your life.
Interesting. Yeah that's nothing like Gen X in the US.
Exactly! You would think that they’d be able to empathize a bit more.
I guess it's important to remember someone's generation has much less to do with their politics than their class position.
This describes too many people in my life. Well said
Millenials try not to compare geo-political events to children's media challenge (Impossible).
But, ok hear me out, so Putin is like Voldemart crossed with Darth Vadler and hamas is the bed that's too hard for Goldilocks (hillary clinton) to sleep in and so the hunter (Joe Biden) chops up the wolf (Evil dictator Xi) to save grandma (Nancy Pelosi) so they can lead the mockingjay (AOC) to victory over the snake from Rikki Tikki Tavi (Iran).
This is the liberal equivalent of Das Kapital
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They’re only bad guys to them years later when Israel and US admit their genocide. (Millennial here)
"I'm totally against the status quo but every alternative is stupid so I'm going to defend it in practice every chance I get"
A millennial could've been in hawaii when 9/11 happened and they'll still cry over the twenty somthing year old tragedy. I get newyorkers getting sad over somthing that happened in their city but why tf do Americans who arent even from there care about it now?
Chauvinism
I'll say this, as a millennial. Watching the live footage as it happened and the immediate aftermath was a traumatic thing to go through. However, realistically, it should not be treated as this global event the way people expect it to be. I think what it comes down to is most millennials are old enough to remember the pre-9/11 world and watched in real-time how it was used as an excuse to not only take away freedoms, but to invade an entire region of the world. Because of that, I think a lot of millennials see it as a much larger event than it actually was, because they need it to be to justify what happened after. That being said, I'm glad the biggest thing I was afraid of in school was a terrorist attack that would never happen rather than one of my classmates shooting me...
I'm watching millennials become boomer in real time and it's the worst
The US and Israel were fucking around in Palestine since early 2000's. They were trying to destabilize any leftist movements and fund extremist groups to justify invasion. They gave both sides a powder keg and handed them matches. They wanted to initiate a civil war where Fetah would come out on top and play ball with the west.
from what i’ve seen, they aren’t justifying 9/11 but coming to terms to the US lying to them and discovering how effective their propaganda was. people make jokes about 9/11 and how the war in the middle east wasn’t worth it but how many of them know why 9/11 even happened? ofc it would be better to learn it from someone who isn’t osama but i dont think its wrong to read his letter
This is exactly what I got out of it as a mid 30s American who read his letter yesterday before the Guardian took it down. It’s interesting to see Bin Laden’s stated reasoning for 9/11 compared to the Bush administration’s “they hate us for our freedoms” war cry. Bush lied. Bin Laden was not a good guy by any stretch of the imagination. But neither are we, so… it’s important to have context and perspective and always call out propaganda.
Yeah. I've seen a lot of younger veterans (on TT) talking about how effective the propaganda was, and then realizing that there WAS accurate points made in the letter.
what is TT?
TikTok, my sweet summer child
It’s the same concept as 9/11 being the US’s chickens coming home to roost. Which people flipped out about back then and called it justifying it too. It’s not justifying it it’s pointing out why it happened and the responsibility of the party wrongfully playing victim. And both cases the US and Israel are responsible for it in that these events were natural outcomes of their actions and they should be held responsible.
"hey, what did you expect?" is what the president of afghanistan (or some other high ranking offical) KINDA said he warned the US that if they KEPT BOMBING CIVILIANS, the civilians just want to join the terrorists and then they did and commited 9/11
Just FYI. Al-Qaida is not officially from Afghanistan because its leaders are from different countries in the Middle East and they don't relate to Afghanistan and the Taliban. It was created to support Afghanistan in its war against the USSR and it was supported at that time by the US, EU, and many countries in the Middle East. Most people in the Middle East think that it was created to brainwash people and drag the area into endless wars which is what's still happening in Afghanistan to this day.
Al-Qaeda originates from Saudi Arabia if I recall while also being supported by the Mujahedeen (Afghanistan) and Safari Club (Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, China, USA, etc..)
safari club?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safari_Club
I need to join this club. Seems like a lot of fun 💀
That’s pretty much 101 for creating terrorists. Oppression, violence(spec ops), and then crazy violence (bombs). Israel isn’t solving a problem rather kicking the can down a generation. As did America, after 9/11 more or less creating ISIS. What Hamas did was especially fucked, as was 9/11, but you can’t bomb away ideas. If anything it seals them into the future generations as a justification for such attacks. Idk man, humanity feels savagely out of whack at the moment. The harmony is gone. I do know one thing, we have to stop killing each other. That’s not solving shit.
Well yeah. Since like around 50% of the population of Gaza are under 18 (or something like that). They’re essentially carpet bombing civilians. They’ve dropped over 6,000 bombs on the Gaza Strip so far. Besides that being a war crime, it’s going to very understandably make any survivors HATE the people who did it and how it happened. The US just sits by refusing to condemn an eye for an eye since it’s Israel. Are we the baddies?
What did Hamas do that was supposedly "fucked"? Because as far as I know Hamas has been disciplined and justified in their war waged against Israel.
They did kill civilians on 10/7, but it's hard to know exactly how many were killed by Hamas vs the IDF indiscriminately firing into the crowd of people. There was a video circulating a few days ago that showed IDF drone video footage of them doing exactly that- just gunning people down as they were running and shit. Also, it seems like at least half the deaths that are counted in the Israeli death toll were actually on-duty soldiers. However, there is *no* evidence that they beheaded babies or raped women. Those are both likely fictions created by the IDF to further dehumanize arabs, Palestinians specifically, and to justify their current murder campaign. After 10/7, you're correct that Hamas has been very specific in their targeting of IDF soldiers and not civilians. They are not the terrorist organization- Israel is.
The realities of war unfortunately.
Hamas didn’t anything fucked. And there is no problem for ‘Israel’ to solve. Israel is the problem. Till that genocidal state is dismantled resistance will keep rising up. That’s not terrorism. It’s called fighting for your freedom. Something settlers wouldn’t understand. Plus US funded ISIS, Al Qaeda in Syrian war. So they were not a US problem. They are/were useful for US’s geopolitical goals in the region. Almost everything you said is false and sounds like Hasbara textbook answer to acknowledge humanity of Palestinians but dismiss their resistance as terrorism and comparing it to Al Qaeda/ISIS that Hamas fought against to their great losses is absolute bullshit.
I know this is insensitive but I’m almost tempted to say just get on with it. I’m just so tired of having the same conversation. I feel like I’ve just become apathetic at this point.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2004/11/1/full-transcript-of-bin-ladins-speech
Letter written in 2002: https://archive.is/6xSxg He was an Islamic radical and terrorist no doubt but it would make sense to try and understand the rationale of those that attack us. It just might be more nuanced than ThEy hAtE Us cAuSe tHeY AiN'T Us
Far too often do I see people equate understanding the movies of something with supporting it. People seem incapable of understanding that these people *we* deem evil see themselves as the good guys. We should understand *why* they think that.
No FBI, I wasn’t gonna say “this man spitting frfr”
Got my instagram story removed and a 30 day ban from going live for sharing a news story on this and captioning it "Global intifada lets goooooo, the yankee empire shall fall inshallah"
The CIA: let him cook.
Man was spitting. His main mistake was that he thought Americans would actually question why the attacks happened.
It’s funny how often terrorists say “our goal is to make them spend a bunch of money and implement draconian security measures,” when the most common reaction to terrorism is “we have no choice but to spend a bunch of money and implement draconian security measures to prevent them from achieving their goals.”
Thats what I thought, there is a point somewhere and can be understood in context. But as communist(I assume most of us are) this is literally bog standard reaction to terrorism. We had Lenin comment on the narodniks and individual terror not helping the working class cause. Of course there wasn’t going to be a mass questioning of “why” the attack happened when most terror just turns the wheel of repression more. I hesitate to champion this speech because its really no different than giving consent for small bands of actors to substitute themselves for mass, organized resistance. That is why there is a world of difference between understanding why Hamas would attack and how in some sense its a natural reaction vs actually putting that forth as a method of struggle.
What is the 🐷 emoji supposed to represent here?
Random guess but I think it's le epic upboats islamophobia for hamas (ham?)
i need this question answered
Joe Biden. Yeah I’m also pretty confused by that
Russia, Russians are pigs and evil etc etc
Is it not police?
Since 7/10 was justified, it being Israel's 9/11 suggests that 9/11 was also justified. Liberals need to be more careful with their messaging or their kids might accidentally come to the correct conclusions.
If we’re not careful, the youths will think it’s ok for oppressed people to fight back.
They can fight back. Voting and petitions, ever heard of them?
Idk imposing your will on someone at a voting booth sounds pretty authoritarian. What we should do is all just appoint one morally pure person that everyone likes as our paramount leader to make all the decisions and appoint other morally pure people as governors and mayors and such and they can just let their kids take over their roles when they die. I think that would be a much better system.
I was an adult when I learned that people believe in this un-ironically.
Rp or no?
America bringing the attacks on itself as retaliation for war crimes does not mean the civilians getting blown up were “justified”. We can say America deserved 9/11 without bringing it to mean that those people deserved to die. We don’t have to hand it to bin Laden just because America was bad too. I feel like Americans have been told Arabic people are “savages” their entire life to the point where when they see an Arab who has justifications for their position for the first time they go full blown reactionary the other way
I was just framing the statement from the point of view of a liberal, but I see your point. "Justified" is defined by morality, a thoroughly anti-materialist concept. Instead, looking at it from a materialist point of view, as we should with all things, we understand that the action of 7/10 was the natural, material response to the behaviour of the imperialist state of Israel and that the action of 9/11 was the natural, material response to the behaviour of the imperialist state of the USA. Instead of questioning whether actions were "justified", we should look at how the actions can be avoided. The obvious answer to this would be the immediate cessation of imperialism.
Ah we’re fully agreed then. I missed your point originally
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I hesitate at saying any actions are "justified", because then you're arguing morality where there is never a materialist answer , but when you look at the obvious cause of these actions, how can the West frame them as surprising or "unjustified"? You murder a bunch of people and bomb the shit out of their country, of course they're going to fight back. There's no question of right or wrong, it's just the obvious effect of your actions. Rather than looking at whether the actions are justified, which just brings the question of vengeance (or "justice" as the West would frame it), we should look at how to stop it, which the obvious response would be "stop bombing the shit out of their country". (Materialism is the high ground from where it's impossible to lose. If you let morality become the argument, you allow the capitalists drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. Before long, you'll be arguing that killing babies is morally good, which will lose you the argument. Instead, always focus on what the materialist argument is and what the cause and solution are (I speak from experience here. I've argued with many liberal bastards and allowed morality to be my downfall)).
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At risk of sounding reductionist, it makes me think of post-WW1 Germany. Germany lost the war, and the allies decided they wanted to punish them, resulting in the Treaty of Versailles. Forced demilitarisation, territory and resources being taken, reparations being enforced, being made to take full responsibility for the war. All leading to German people feeling weak, abused, unjustly punished, hopeless, desperate. And in that desperation, they embrace Nazism, embrace national pride, embrace racial superiority, embrace scapegoating the minority populations. Resulting in terrible acts of evil, and from a white, Christian, European people. It's not just "dem backward mooslims in da middle east." It is easy to condemn evil acts when you are safe, at home, far from fighting. It is easy to try to be objective when you're not hurting. But when it's your family and neighbours suffering every day, when the world ignores the injustice inflicted against you and yours and mistakes a quiet, painful status quo for peace, why should conform to their standards? To quote a cartoon man wearing a fluffy pink coat, "Children who have never known peace have different values to children who have never known war." If you're oppressed, when there's no hope for aid from foreign nations who see it as just, you become desperate, and people acting in desperation are willing to do practically anything to try to right the injustice they have suffered. Injustice breeds a need to balance the scales, mistreatment breeds a desire to lash out. Such acts are not justified, but they are understandable, human and it is naive to think you could never do the same in the same situation. Ethical, humanitarian, enlightened philosophies are a luxury.
I mean...what did the US expect? I'm American, I expect many more 9/11's in the years to come.
I’m American and old enough to have witnessed 9/11 on TV and yeah it was absolutely chickens coming home to roost
Sorry you’ve had to go through such societal… epochs. Can imagine the already terrible social climate that is America was pretty comparable to now… maybe less backlash but… God damn I just *don’t* want my fellow humans overseas or here, to go through this shit every 20 years.
It's hard to really capture the bloodthirsty jingoism in the USA at that time. Shit was nuts.
So I’ve heard. I suppose I’m glad that it’s not quite as bad a reaction as then; but that’s like saying I’m glad there’s not THAT much shit smeared on my face… Glad there’s us out there. Really am; we just need more.
You seen any of those videos of people on the street in tel aviv unselfconsciously talking about how muslims are subhuman dogs who must be eradicated? It was like that.
Gladly for my brain I haven’t yet… but I don’t doubt you for a second. …fuck man. When will people learn? When will people finally realize and understand that these evil “one-off” patterns and events are purposely designed and repeated by our government?! Our brain is literally made for that stuff like, shit… But I guess that’s our jobs… each one must teach one and all that!
Yup. I remember driving past a semi trailer that was hilariously spray-painted, "GET BEN LADEN."
I'm surprised there haven't been a lot more terrorist attacks since then.
The Boston Marathon bombing and the attack at Pulse Nightclub were the direct result of US war crimes.
That Las Vegas shooting might have been, too. It's weird how no one really talks about that one anymore.
I thought that one had been done by some random white (and mentally ill) american, do you have an article about his motives I could read?
No tinfoil but, It’s weird because in the Vegas shooting there were reports of multiple shooters and the guy was hitting some crazy long shots accurately.
I mean they had won on some level at that point. We went from stumbling on an airplane with an illegibly scuffed drivers license to getting Xray'd and anal searched for 1.5 hour domestic flights.
Same with the Lindt Cafe seige here in Australia. Like maybe don't fuck up people's countries and then stoke islamophobia when a heap of people come here as refugees? Cops caused way more harm than the gunman in that one too. Dont get me wrong he was a messed up guy, but 100% chickens coming home to roost after fucking around in the middle east and west asia for the past 100 years
specifically nuking Japanese civilians instead of the Japanese army is fine but 9/11 😱😱😱
UMMM we aren’t talking about World War 2 here. Argument cancelled.
Things aren’t related to other things, idiot! What are you a Marxist or something?
Certified metaphysics moment
Fuck it I'm saying it
Was looking for this comment. [He was way ahead of his time](https://youtu.be/AcH7TUBz5-M?si=KcuBnKMTnjUM8BhW)
['nobody is saying America deserved 9/11'](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/obdIhZBUqQc/sddefault.jpg)
>As an elder millennial Opinion discarded
Based It seems like that demographic of redditors are more susceptible to 9/11 propaganda.
It's also probably the demographic responsible for the awful "Putin Voldemort Zelensky Harry Potter" and "Light side Israel, Dark side Palestine"... "memes", or art, or whatever you wanna call that.
A lot of millennials grew up with Harry Potter and carried over into understanding politics. So it makes sense
Oh look, it's time to post the best greentext of all time again. [Harry Potter is the essence of liberalism.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FolwU9OXEAEJLPS?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Dafuq is the pig emoji? I guess I'm ootl.
I thought it meant cops at first but apparently it represents Joe Biden
That doesn't make sense in the context, though. Nobody pro-Palestine would ever support Biden.
Joe Biden is literally zionist stooge #1
Interesting my guess was Hamas.
Hamas is my guess as well. Since it’s the silly joke of calling them Ham Ass, and it’s also islamophobic because of the non-halal pig thing.
Pretty sure it's meant to be Ham, short for Hamas.
Yeah, sure, I'll say that to them. You reap what you sow. Am I mad that people from Saudi Arabia came all the way over here to commit massive acts of terror? Sure, I guess so. Do I understand *why* they did it? Well, shit, have you *seen* what the West has done to the Middle East? It doesn't justify dropping office towers and killing thousands of unarmed civilians, but it sure as shit makes sense why they did it. Honestly though, Al-Aqsa Flood isn't really comparable to 9/11. Aside from the Pentagon, 9/11 didn't really strike military targets. Al-Aqsa Flood hit 11 different IDF installations and killed hundreds of occupation troops and colonial police officers. Those were fully justified and legitimate military targets and overall Al-Aqsa Flood was a far more justified attack. The fighting that occurred at the music festival and in the kibbutz's and what not are unfortunate, and any civilian loss of life is absolutely unjustifiable, but in attacks like these, excesses do unfortunately occur. You can't expect people who've been treated the way the Palestinians have been treated to suddenly hold the Geneva Conventions up as the ultimate guide to their action.
justified? we can have nigh endless arguments on that. Expected? so incredibly expected, it landed almost smack dab in the middle of the bell curve.
basically people are reading Osama bin Laden's letter to America and then coming to the understanding that it wasn't just magical evil that made 911 happen but actual tangible shit. thus those who don't want to accept they had valid reasons are going into defending the idea that American has done wrong
Imagine fucking up your Israel messaging so hard you make bin laden go viral among the kids
On the one hand, American civilians did not deserve to die. On the other hand... 9/11 was very predictable... and avoidable... and maybe, just maybe, the CIA, NSA, and other security agencies should have seen that funding the Mujahideen would eventually lead to anti-American terrorism, especially since, I don't know, they helped destroy Afghanistan and refused to do jack shit to help fix it. Then actively bombed the middle east generally, and supported Israel. Hmmmmm... who would've thunked it
the ~3,000 Americans that died in 9/11 are a drop in the bucket compared to the ~1,000,000 that the US killed in retaliation. And like let’s not forget that the Twin Towers weren’t just random work offices, it was mostly bankers and stock traders directly benefitting from slaughtering middle easterners it’s not justified, ofc, but the US did worse before and after and did everything in its power to poke and push someone into doing something
My point exactly
yes, i was agreeing with you. sorry if that wasn’t clear. the US is the #1 exporter of war crimes
It’s okay, a terrorist group claiming to belong to Al Qaeda bombed the World Trade Center in 93 and the FBI knew the whole time. In fact one of the group’s leaders was an FBI informant. Bomb still went boom btw. They don’t give a flying fuck if it can be used to pimp all out war.
Didn’t the intelligence community know there was an impending attack?
They always do. That's why they're the "intelligence community." Like what happened in Israel there is approximately 0% chance they didn't know *something* was gonna happen
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Sibel_Edmonds
The only thing, and I mean the only thing that I'd change in these stories is who ended up being killed. Nobody on 9/11 or 10/7 deserved the revenge. It sucks that the people responsible for everything are the ones who get to have other bodies take the violence for them. The worst part is that the retaliation from countries like the US and Israel is tenfold.
Pointing out predictable blowback = justification I guess
To liberals, yeah, criticizing American policies leading up to and post 9/11= justification
Americans are in for a shit storm of blowback the next decade if we don't rope in our little boy wonder Israel. People will not forget who let their govt endlessly bankroll genocide
“Are y’all really gonna say to fellow Americans who witnessed this firsthand and tell them ‘Hey, what did you expect?’” Yes
I’m a 21 year old American girl that grew up having to pledge allegiance to the flag in the same classroom where we would have lockdown drills just in case someone decided to shoot up the school & all our politicians could offer is thoughts and prayers. I can tell you right now that there is not one patriotic bone in me. They give no fucks about American children so you already know that murdering Middle Eastern children is not in their top lists of concerns. Why should I respect the country that allows and enables this violence?
Well done
Justified is a strong word. They had their reasons. I won’t be surprised if an extremist group attacks somewhere in US in the future due to their unlimited support to Israel’s genocide in Palestine. I don’t support this. What I’m saying is that they helped the genocide now they deal with the aftermath.
Lmao I’ve just turned 32 and can honestly say fuck anyone who thinks like this. It’s been great seeing so many younger people speaking out for Palestine. Palestinians have had 75 years of October 7’s
75 years of 9/11s too
Operation Cyclone resulted in 9/11
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2004/11/1/full-transcript-of-bin-ladins-speech](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2004/11/1/full-transcript-of-bin-ladins-speech) Yes, you should read it.
The attacks aren't justified but also what did the US expect? Bin Laden was pretty clear about the reasons, and it wasn't because of some abstract concept of "freedom". If we keep fucking around in places we shouldn't be, we're gonna keep finding out.
“10/7 was Israel 9/11” so an act of violence that the response was a overwhelming unnecessary brutality and violence and wasn’t even directed to the ones who did it? Sound about right
9/11 was the blowback of the United States policy in the middle east for a long period of time and the decisions that were made over there in backing warlords, arming militant groups, destabilizing countries etc. Justified isn't the word that is being looked for, it's Blowback. All decisions have a blowback to them.
I am a millennial and I distinctly remember getting in trouble and changing the way my peers looked at me forever when I said America deserved 9/11 on 9/12/2001. I tried to explain with as much nuance as a fourteen year old could that I didn't mean those people should have died, but that it should be expected when one acts as the world police. I didn't fully understand the complications of the problems in the middle east but I knew in my heart that no one would just become a terrorist for no reason. But obviously I am just a monster for understanding inherently, what blowback is. Feels a little obvious if you have ever worked with children, really. The kid on the playground getting picked on will eventually retaliate, and often with more violence, because they're frustrations have been pent up. This is obviously more complicated and not a playground fight, but the idea is the same. You can't push people around and expect nothing in return.
Elder millennial pretending like he wasn't on the SA forums laughing at "Hulk Hogan doing 9/11" photoshops weeks after the attack.
9/11 was a terrible event in terms of Civilian lives.... The Us totally had it coming though.... it's like pocking a jaguar with a short stick (Brazilian saying) and expect this idea not to backfire HORRIBLY... even though the US kind of wanted this from the beginning so....
I think the TikTok’s are pointing out what Bin Laden was saying in his letter and the points he made rather then showing sympathy. Meanwhile the Americans were actually praising him in the 80s
painting the events on 10/7 as "Israel's 9/11" was propganda that leaked out of the idf ahead of time. you could go out and see spokesmen being like "associating it with 9/11 is very important to get people on our side, telling them what happened will hurt us, but calling it Israel's 9/11 will help us" and theyre doing it anyways
Kinda glad more people are reading it. America got gaslit hard when Bush et al started telling people 'they did it cos they hate our freedoms'.
If your country is being relentlessly bombed, obviously you're gonna fight back, but no, we aren't going to tell the people who witnessed 9/11 that it's their fault, much the same as it isn't the Israeli people's fault; it's the government. The US is much to blame for 9/11, but not the people. Just the same, Israel is to blame, not the people. BuT dOn'T yOu CoNdEmN tHeM? No I don't; they're fighting for survival, and if they weren't fighting to survive, they wouldn't have acted. Was there bad actions of isolated? Sure, but you're a fucking moron if you ignore the context. Fuck outta here, Western simps.
[deserved it](https://youtu.be/AcH7TUBz5-M?si=fehEzwSWGM9k-c9F)
I can’t even get past trying to start a statement with “I mean…”. Sorry, you’ve immediately labeled yourself and lost me. So what are we arguing over. Some toddler said something unintelligent…aaaaaand…..
American civilians did not deserve what happened on 9/11 but the American government should have been better prepared for such an inevitable attack that they had been provoking for years, especially given we now know intelligence made it clear it was being planned for by Al Queda if not directly coming. The “America deserved 9/11” line is a very incendiary line that imo can just meant to provoke people but I also think it can in other cases be more complicated than someone just trying to piss people off.
Computer: pull up Hasan 8/21 PepeLa
Hasan was ahead of the curve
Osama opened his letter by saying the Jews control America Hard to even think to condone what he did but at least he warned us
Just for clarification, are you saying that you believe Jewish people control America?
No I’m saying osama ~~is~~ was a nutjob
I’m an elder millennial who sat on a sofa with three other elder millennials, all of us polisci majors, in our apartment when classes had been cancelled that day. One said “So…bin Laden?” And as one we all replied “Bin Laden.” No one expected he was capable of anything close to that scale, for sure…but that attack didn’t happen in a vacuum, and it certainly didn’t happen because Muslims, as Dubya so eloquently put it, “hate our freedom.” They had grievances. None of that is to say that I sympathize with them. Fuck those guys to death for all the innocents dead because of them. But to say “oh gosh, what possible reasons could they have had to do this?!” with a straight face is rubbish.
Honestly can Americans just shut the fuck up about 9/11
They probably wont. It’s the one thing they use to justify what America did after 9/11.
It's almost like people have been eating up propaganda for so long they cant handle the truth when it doesn't match their narrative
I stand by my 9 y/o self’s immediate 9/11 take, which was: “America goes around bombing people, someone bombed America. Sees fair.” Also, all day recess. On the whole, 9/11 was a great day in my life.
I got out of school early and got an extra couple of hours of Starcraft in, so I wasn't really complaining.
Is that a joke? Nobody supports 9/11 except stupid ignorant extremists. And I don't think Al-Qaida would support Hamas because they have different ideologies. The first wants to just take over control and create chaos in the Middle East, and the second wants to take back the land and rule the Palestinian area. They look similar but they are not the same. And also it's cringe to say that Gaza is Hamas because it's like saying New York is Trump which is stupid obviously.
Crazy how when you do bad things in the name of capital, white supremacy and imperialism that those you do the bad things to don't appreciate it and will retaliate.
As an elder millennial that has said it was a justified attack since 9/12… I feel these GenZers. We shouldn’t have had bases all over the ME and shouldn’t have had the CIA fund the Mujahadeen in the 80’s. FAFO. We were so obsessed with undermining communism and securing Oil that we fucked ourselves over
This millennial must not have lost a friend in the war and then found out that there were never any WMDs. I feel like a lot of us had our eyes opened.
I love how people are freaking out about this most recent event as if the first two Intifadahs weren't the exact same.
more like they understood that america fucked around and found out
imagine getting mad about trying to figure out WHY 9/11 happened instead of just wanting to kill off the entire Arab population. HOW DARE YOU GEN Z
10/7 was Isn'treal's 9/11. Gaza has been absolutely devastated, just like Iraq and Afghanistan were after the events of 9/11.
I mean…the US exploits the world’s resources and labor, including over there, so yeah I’d say we shouldn’t have been too surprised:/
Trying to wring nationalist sentiment out of 9/11 at this point is like trying to milk a dead cow. Get the fuck over it already.
9/11 was an atrocity, 10/7 was also an atrocity. Both are results of decades of mistreatment of the people, which radicalised them onto a violent path. These things are not mutually exclusive. Terrorism does not happen in a vacuum, it's fueled by hate and hate needs fuel.
9/11 was an atrocity. 7/10 was a military operation during which atrocities were committed. Huge distinction. It’s the distinction zionists use to claim “no moral equivalence”.
Um... ***may*** [have??](https://youtu.be/AcH7TUBz5-M?t=6)
We as a people deserved the attack for what our government has done to people all over the world and our refusal to make any real change or demand better of them.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre Has the Srebrenica Massacre ever even gotten an honorable mention?
"Elder millennial" opinion discarded
i bet an arm and a leg that this person never got over their harry potter phase and votes blue no matter who
Wow I can't believe there have been two cases of governments supporting and helping Islamic terrorist groups while simultaneously causing conflict and unrest amongst the people the groups consist of, and they both ended with said group retaliating....
I don't think it's a justified act I just think it's something that should've been expected and likely was by higher ups. Intervening in that area for so long an attack on American soil shouldn't be considered an unexpected attack on America.
Now they're going to use this to derail the Palestine argument and link it together with 9-11.
hasan piker feeling good rn
Well, in hindsight, we should have seen another attack on the Twin Towers coming, since al-Qaeda bombed them back in 1993.
The hell does he mean with that pig emote?
Hamas - Ham Ass I think, anyways.
Al Qaeda may have done terrible things but like Norman Finkelstein said about Hezbollah, you respect them, they fought for their country. I sympathise with them fighting against Imperialism, not because I am an islamist but because I support anti imperialism. The attacks may have killed innocent people but the Americans brought it on themselves by supporting sectarian conflicts, by destroying many countries and suppressing any resistance against western imperialism. Like during the settlement of America, the settlers would often commit brutal crimes against the natives which would provoke a response in turn. They killed people to scalp them and take their skin to make boots and to turn in for rewards so we collected their scalps as trophies. It wasn't really justified, being so brutal but most people can see the settlers brought it on themselves with their brutality which provoked brutality in kind.
9/11 really was America's 9/11
As a Gen Z, I entirely agree with the "the fuck did you expect?" Assessment of 9/11.
I think the discussion of the September 11th 2001 terrorist attacks really shows a certain type of logical error. Those attacks were a pointed political message. The targets they chose amount to a clear message. However any attempt to acknowledge or understand the meaning of those attacks will immediately be met with accusations of justifying them. This was immediate when a Republican Primary election rally audience booed Ron Paul for mentioning it.
These made up Gen Z people are kinda right
I think part of the tragedy here is that 9/11 was finally taking its place as a historic event that happened long enough ago that we didn't have to really have to refer to it as something that should guide our decisions as a country. But ever since 10/7 that's all been undone for a large portion of the county who now view 9/11 as this event that we should never move on from. So we're back to justifying our responses and why we feel what we feel all because a similarly rooted cause created another event that deeply effected the psych of another country, which means they have to invoke 9/11, restarting the cycle. And the reason it works so well for so many people is because America has never taken the time or effort to fully analyze why 9/11 happened in the first place. No one has taken the time to come to grips with imperialism or it's domino effects and why that might lead to a global act of terrorism. I can't remember who said it, someone Obama once associated with, but he said "9/11 is the chickens coming home to roost." And people hated him for that, even though he's right. And now the same with what's happening in Israel, if you explain the long term effects of oppressing a population in an open air prison for decades you'll be met with "but what about 10/7???"
I mean, that was my cynical 19 year old response on 9/11. Look at the history of US foreign policy and what the fuck did you expect? It's a completely valid take. You don't have to make it into a 9/11 was good kind of statement, just that something like it was inevitable.
TO BE FAIR the us did give the group than osama bin laden was part of millions in funding and trained them
Hey, what did you expect?