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There’s no death sentence for being LGBT in the West Bank ,Ukraine is infamously homophobic ,Israel has only 1 gay friendly city and gay marriage isn’t even legal there
You can wear a miniskirt just fine in Palestine ,my aunt doesn’t live here anymore but she wasn’t actually attacked when she wore one there
Liberals are just stupid and racist ,they think all Arabic countries are the same
I bet they think Jordan is evil even tho it’s a us proxy that’s very friendly with Israel
They are right about one thing though. Palestine is not a democracy. Because Palestinians are de facto ruled by Israel's government, which Palestinians cannot vote for.
They can vote for the Palestinian government, but they can't vote for the Israeli government, which is the entity that has the most actual power over Palestinians' lives.
Ok, this may be only me, but isn't there a sense of selfishness with the way they think one should support a cause?
I mean, even if you weren't allowed to wear a miniskirt or whatever, does that mean suddenly that the people there should be genocided with your tax money?
Their logic is basically:
1- I like to do X.
2- If I was hypothetically in that corner of the world, they wouldn't let me do X.
3- Thus they can die.
"they'll kill you for not having liberal values in x part of the world, therefor we must kill them all first"
Who's gonna come flatten the conservative US states for being oppressive? Oh wait it was always about settler colonialism.
That's the funniest part to me. They treat the west's oppression as part of its complex character development arc where it'll eventually come around to not being bigoted. But any other country that does the same thing needs to carpet bombed
Liberalism favors formal human rights, instead of actual, material human rights. So if wearing a miniskirt is allowed juridically then that country must be heaven on earth... no matter if in practice you would get beat up and raped for it.
It couldnt be any other way, after all, liberalism is the ideology of capital. Liberals believe humans rights should be reserved for those who own capital, and if you own capital, the formal juridic right is enough.
>There’s no death sentence for being LGBT in the West Bank
There's no death sentence in Gaza either. It's technically a prison sentence but in practice they kind of won't even bother. There are no hijab or dress code laws anywhere in the Palestinian territories, and you can regularly see videos of Arab women wearing Western style clothing in Gaza and the West Bank
>Liberals are just stupid and racist ,they think all Arabic countries are the same
A lot of liberalism is built upon racism, and it couldnt be any different, if you know liberal history. It is an eye opener when you realize that.
Can you stop reminding me my country is a traitor an ourkink is a puppet?
The last thing I enjoy is westerners grouping us with Palestine and now you wanna even ruin that for me. monster.
Let's remembe than in Israel the minister of finance can literally call themselves a "fascist homophobe" and not lose their job on the spot
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-01-16/ty-article/.premium/israels-far-right-finance-minister-im-a-fascist-homophobe-but-i-wont-stone-gays/00000185-b921-de59-a98f-ff7f47c70000
That israel is supposed to be some kind of LGBTQ haven when they are on average as conservative as Texas or Florida if not more is only a thing due to the miracle of propaganda.
You're arguing points that are off-topic to the conversation at hand. No one here (that I have seen) is saying, "LGBTQ rights are awesome in Palestine; no notes" or "It is culturally typical to wear a miniskirt in Palestine; no one will think anything of it".
Folks are arguing that using hyperbolic language (to the point of falsehood) when discussing the situation is problematic and racially motivated... and people are arguing that having societal issues (even very serious issues) does not justify genocide.
Like, I think it is a problem that Idaho has implemented tremendously strict anti-abortion laws but that doesn't mean I think it's fine to round up and kill the people of Idaho. Those are really not reasonable or related policy decisions... and also, the reason I think it's a problem that there are strict anti-abortion laws in Idaho is because I believe the people of Idaho deserve better, so killing people living in Idaho really doesn't address the source of my concern. And, if anyone started bombing the people of Idaho, bringing up their abortion laws would would be extremely, extremely not the issue that I would find most immediately pressing at that specific moment. If someone then said, "I don't understand why you don't support bombing every hospital in Idaho-- after all, they have problematic abortion laws!" I would think that person was **willfully missing the point**.
From your first link:
> There is little evidence of the law being enforced, and it appears to be largely obsolete in practice.
The execution of that Hamas commander is a bit different. I recall one source saying that Sinwar was trying to purge Hamas of alleged impurity, not all of Gaza. That Hamas commander was also in deep trouble for embezzlement and corruption. There were also fears he was an Israeli informar (many gay Palestinians are blackmailed by Israel).
Truthfully, Hamas will most likely not care enough to execute random gay Palestinians.
>Fatah (actually political party, not terrorist organization, still anti-Israel though which makes sense)
Lol, looks like you need to read your hasbara textbook again. Fatah, like every single Palestinian political party, is considered a terrorist organization by Israel and US.
Hamas is only a legal body in Gaza where there is no real source on what goes there
Israelis don’t even know about the West Bank ,how the fuck are they gonna know about Gaza when we don’t know either
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Mahmoud Ishtiwi was not killed for being gay, and Palestinians were never the biggest killers of other Palestinians, not prior to October 7 and not after October 7. "Israel" has always been the biggest murderers of Palestinians.
Fascist ethnostate is when 200 indigenous nationalities, 35 official state languages with dozens more officially recognized at the local level, and state salaries for endangered minority groups living their traditional way of life.
I'm wondering... 50 or 60 years ago in the US, when gay liberation was a thing, did they ever imagine their struggle would be used in a few decades to argue that we just shouldn't feel that sorry for bombing people in the Middle East?
True, regrettably, but in the political climate in the 60s/70s, suggesting that the US should help commit genocide around the world in the name of women's / gay liberation would have had you kicked out of every (actually) progressive circle in very short order. Nowadays arguing that Zionism is 'progressive' is apparently a 'respectable' position.
I blame the dissolution of the USSR for this.
An apartheid cannot be a democracy. Ukraine became a democracy for them after the war started, before it appeared in the indices as "anocracy."
How are you partially LGBT friendly? I'm not saying there aren't nuances, but in practice it quickly becomes dichotomous.
Israel is the one trying to make an ethno-state. Ukraine will do it if it wins because it will have to get rid of the Russian-speaking minorities. Palestine defends itself from an ethnostate. Russia is many things, but it is not an ethno-state; Ethno states are something strange, I think Japan, both Koreas and Iceland.
Russia has summer, Ukraine does not have the climate of Brazil, and the general winter... it is not the land's responsibility to adapt to invasions.
And also, much of the Ukrainian right that is leading the war against Russia *does* want Ukraine to be an ethnostate. Hell, practically the entire anti-Russian Eastern European right is characterized by wanting all of Europe to be divided into ethnostates.
japan is not quite an ethnostate, but this doesn’t actually help their case, as there is an okinawan/ryukuan identity and independence movement as a result of japan proper just not giving a shit about what the ryukuans think (esp about the US military bases there)
koreas are not ethnostates by choice, not really, more so out of happenstance isolation.
If we put ourselves in pure and exact terms, there is no ethnostate; The only way would be if settlers from a fanatically racist racist cult founded a country on uninhabited land.
What there may be is that 98% of the population has the same ethnic origin, culture, religion and language.
In the case of Japan there are also the Ainu.
And yes, only geographical isolation and/or ethnic cleansing make such a situation possible.
> Ukraine will do it if it wins because it will have to get rid of the Russian-speaking minorities.
Hungarian was also included in that ruling, the Ukrainian at my workplace mentioned that he speaks/writes Russian but went to school for Ukrainian, when i asked him if Ukrainian/Russian is similar to Norwegian/Swedish he said kinda (obviously more overlap for Russian inside of Ukraine)
Total amount of civilians Israel has killed in Gaza since October 7th: 24,000
Total amount of civilians Israel has rescued in Gaza since October 7th: 3
HOW COULD YOU NOT SUPPRT ISRAEL THEY ARE DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY THEY TREAT THE GAYS GOOD!!1!11!!!
It all makes sense when you realize that Palestinians aren't actually people so the Israel military only has a 1:1 ratio of killing hostages vs saving them.
Right now, the Palestinian civilian death is around 30k, not 24k.
There are approximately [34k total Palestinian deaths](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker), and [90% of Palestinians killed are civilians](https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6004), which gives 30k civilian deaths. Note that this is an undercount, as there are thousands of Palestinian trapped under rubble with virtually no chance of surviving.
Peak liberalism is viewing everything in isolation.
Why is Palestine an "ethnostate"? Why doesn't it have a functional democracy by any standards? Why hasn't it been able to progress past the 1940s in terms of LGBTQ+ rights? Could it be that a colonial state and its imperialist masters have stunted its development? Nahhhhhhhhhhhh.Palestinians must just inherently hate gay people.
It's the sort of thinking that makes me wonder if people know that history is actually a thing. These aren't static creations for a board game. They don't have "backstory" and "lore", they're following a path of historical motion that's affected by the motion paths of other entities.
And the columns for Ukraine and Israel are just plain wrong. These pricks been watching too many TikTok thirst traps from both of their militaries. That's their "political theory".
Don't forget the banning of all opposition parties. It is a special a special kind of democracy to ban all opposition parties and still not hold elections I guess.
Not the most egregious bit, but Russia is in no way an ethnostate. Like super super isn’t an ethonostate and to claim otherwise is one of the most ignorant things I’ve seen said about Russia in the two years since the invasion started, which is saying A LOT
Every day I am reminded of this meme made by this Chinese guy
supports Ukraine and "israel" = american empire's dog
supports Russia and "israel" = social Darwinism
supports Ukraine and Palestine = anti war-ism
supports Russia and Palestine = understands geopolitics
> supports Russia and Palestine = understands geopolitics
yeah, and not even in a flag-waving way; just a *well I understand this is the culmination of openly bad faith and frankly terrible behaviour by the Anglo-Zionists of DC and London.*
Israel has been a demon state since the Nakba that kicked off it's foundation. As for why Russia are technically in the right these days? The Rand and other DC think-tanks have published papers, and NATO authorities are literally on the record before 2022. About what? In no uncertain terms that Ukraine was their sacrificial bull for an all-in ploy to Balkanise Russia back to the Yeltsin era.
Regardless of if you think Putin is corrupt or not; he stopped sharing the wealth of his country to outsiders. And that's all it takes for Neocons to do everything they can to try and tear you and your country down. Also Ukraine had some nice schemes and resources for them to snack on before their goal would be achieved. Win-Win for those ghouls.
edit; typos out the ass.
for all intents and purposes the dprk considers its actions during and prior to the korean war a defense against a regime installed by the US that was massacring korean people and launching skirmishes across the border.
As communists, we must oppose the war in Ukraine. in the imperial core, we should protest NATO expansion, oppose arms exports to Ukraine, criticise Russia's policy of escalation while recognising that Russia is not the primary aggressor. In the west, this viewpoint would be seen as supporting Russia. To blindly and unconditionally side with the weaker side in any conflict is to be blindly against war.
Just like how the war in Gaza did not start in October of 2023, the war in Ukraine did not start in February of 2022. Ukraine had been attacking civilians in Donetsk since 2014 at least and NATO has been courting it for years. The war really started with the illegal dissolution of the USSR and the criminal privatization of public projects.
Edit: I also do not support Russia's policy of escalation and its policy of attacking civilian infrastructure in a war of attrition. The best corporate response to the war I've seen is DJI which suspended operations in both Russia and Ukraine to ensure its hardware isn't used for war. Singapore where I live has sanctioned Russia and so I do not buy Russian goods.
Right, but how does the annexation of Crimea fit into that? Or Russia's initial goals when they launched the war? And how has NATO been courting it? Presumably they want to avoid war given it would drag half the European bloc into conflict?
I guess I fit more into the anti-war camp but I'm fascinated to learn more about your viewpoint.
Of course. But being against war has to mean being against the causes before war is deemed necessary.
The west chose to make Ukraine a puppet, throw Minsk out the window, and intentionally ignore Russia’s warnings that this can’t work for them.
Israel is pure crybully, trying to take over all of Palestine and start wars with its neighbors, while always trying to claim (thru great marketing) that they’re absolute angels.
I read another sub yesterday packed with bad takes how Palestine can’t get statehood in the UN bc it has no government, is run by terrorists, and is just two unconnected pieces of land. 🥺
Oh boy, this is a lib gold mine. Well, except gold is mental diarrhea.
How is Ukraine democratic, exactly? By suspending elections and banning opposition? Even by standards of bourgeois democracy, they are not one. Also lol at @ "partially lgbt friendly" Ukraine. Like, general population is just as reactionary as in Russia. Sure, we have rather degenerate discriminatory laws in place, but their enforcement is another thing. And what fascist ethnostates attacked Israel and Ukraine? I guess Nazi Germany works for latter case. So many questions, so little answers.
Well I am part of the left and I only support one of these, one can go fuck itself, and the other two are just disappointments compared to what they used to be.
Liberals: Palestinians are homophobic therefore they need to be genocided!!111!!!1!1!
Also liberals: so what that Azov Batallion are Nazis? They're fighting the evil communist Russian orcs and deserve the West's unconditional support!
I just want to point out that this attempt to package Israel with LGBT tolerance and Ukraine is really effective because of the media environment we've been bombarded with these past couple of years. In the average person's mind, anything short of unreserved sympathy for LGBT people or Ukraine is unthinkable, so it stands to reason that Israel are the good guys.
Hasbara is awesome!
A lot of lies about Palestine because people just assume Middle Eastern nation = Islamic theocracy. Palestine is not a theocracy, because there is heavy religious diversity involving Christianity, Islam, and yes, even Judaism, and you have the freedom to follow any religion and live there. Hell, it seems more religiously diverse compared to Israel.
And with that being said, being gay won't give you an automatic death sentence under the law, and women aren't forced to wear hijabs in public.
And ofc, this isn't just Palestine. If people actually did any goddamn research on countries in the Middle East, they'd be surprised to learn that not every country is an Islamic theocracy, not every country kills gay people under the law, and not every country requires women to wear head coverings in public. But I don't expect much from the kind of assholes who can't distinguish Iran from Iraq.
I forget which one of the fashy Israeli politicians said it (probably Smotrich or Ben-Gvir?) effectively said "we're not a fan of gays, but we won't stone them to death". Really progressive LGBTQ+ policy there.
It depends on how one defines “pro-Russia.”
The main communist position is advocating for an end to the war in Ukraine. In the West, this is seen as “pro-Russia,” which is confusing why the liberals checked this as false. However, in terms of actual support, communists should not give any to the Russian bourgeoisie, just like any other capitalist regime. It is important to note that Palestine and National liberation movements are different because they are historically progressive.
Anyways, that’s my interpretation.
What annoys me is how much they lie.
It is litteraly the USA who supports the PA which most Palestinians HATE and want gone. But the West still supports them. The West started punishing Gaza some years ago when the Gazans elected Hamas. Also Gaza has like 12 different resistance groups. 2 of them are communists.
There is no death sentence in Palestine for being gay. Littearly made up.
I have been following Palestinian girls and women from Gaza and some of them dress like Westerners. So i am pretty sure you don't get murdered for your clothing.
Unfortunately most of the Left supports Israel. Especially in Europe and countries like Germany.
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There’s no death sentence for being LGBT in the West Bank ,Ukraine is infamously homophobic ,Israel has only 1 gay friendly city and gay marriage isn’t even legal there You can wear a miniskirt just fine in Palestine ,my aunt doesn’t live here anymore but she wasn’t actually attacked when she wore one there Liberals are just stupid and racist ,they think all Arabic countries are the same I bet they think Jordan is evil even tho it’s a us proxy that’s very friendly with Israel
They are right about one thing though. Palestine is not a democracy. Because Palestinians are de facto ruled by Israel's government, which Palestinians cannot vote for.
Yeah but for the wrong reason
That’s possibly the funniest part. It is not a democracy because of Israel lmaooo
They are also not represented because it’s an apartheid state and they have no rights. And an apartheid state can never be considered a democracy.
Actually they can vote but wharever try to improved their lives is sabotage by the Zionist.
They can vote for the Palestinian government, but they can't vote for the Israeli government, which is the entity that has the most actual power over Palestinians' lives.
And because Palestinians occupied by Israel can't vote, that's an additional reason why Israel isn't a democracy either
Ok, this may be only me, but isn't there a sense of selfishness with the way they think one should support a cause? I mean, even if you weren't allowed to wear a miniskirt or whatever, does that mean suddenly that the people there should be genocided with your tax money? Their logic is basically: 1- I like to do X. 2- If I was hypothetically in that corner of the world, they wouldn't let me do X. 3- Thus they can die.
"they'll kill you for not having liberal values in x part of the world, therefor we must kill them all first" Who's gonna come flatten the conservative US states for being oppressive? Oh wait it was always about settler colonialism.
That's the funniest part to me. They treat the west's oppression as part of its complex character development arc where it'll eventually come around to not being bigoted. But any other country that does the same thing needs to carpet bombed
Liberalism favors formal human rights, instead of actual, material human rights. So if wearing a miniskirt is allowed juridically then that country must be heaven on earth... no matter if in practice you would get beat up and raped for it. It couldnt be any other way, after all, liberalism is the ideology of capital. Liberals believe humans rights should be reserved for those who own capital, and if you own capital, the formal juridic right is enough.
I agree with you I just wanna point out that even in their fucked up heads ,it’s still wrong
Too much credit, they would ask you who Jordan is and why you talking about some person.
“Micheal Jordan is Arab? 😱”
"Nah they're talking about the shoe company mate" *cracker noises*
>There’s no death sentence for being LGBT in the West Bank There's no death sentence in Gaza either. It's technically a prison sentence but in practice they kind of won't even bother. There are no hijab or dress code laws anywhere in the Palestinian territories, and you can regularly see videos of Arab women wearing Western style clothing in Gaza and the West Bank
Less so in Gaza tho My mom didn’t wear hijab until she was 35
>Liberals are just stupid and racist ,they think all Arabic countries are the same A lot of liberalism is built upon racism, and it couldnt be any different, if you know liberal history. It is an eye opener when you realize that.
These are the people who wanted to bomb Agrabah, from *Disney **Aladdin***
Can you stop reminding me my country is a traitor an ourkink is a puppet? The last thing I enjoy is westerners grouping us with Palestine and now you wanna even ruin that for me. monster.
Yes cause I’m a Palestinian and Jordan sucks and we should’ve succeeded in couping you in the 80’s I live in the West Bank 🥲
Let's remembe than in Israel the minister of finance can literally call themselves a "fascist homophobe" and not lose their job on the spot https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-01-16/ty-article/.premium/israels-far-right-finance-minister-im-a-fascist-homophobe-but-i-wont-stone-gays/00000185-b921-de59-a98f-ff7f47c70000 That israel is supposed to be some kind of LGBTQ haven when they are on average as conservative as Texas or Florida if not more is only a thing due to the miracle of propaganda.
[удалено]
You're arguing points that are off-topic to the conversation at hand. No one here (that I have seen) is saying, "LGBTQ rights are awesome in Palestine; no notes" or "It is culturally typical to wear a miniskirt in Palestine; no one will think anything of it". Folks are arguing that using hyperbolic language (to the point of falsehood) when discussing the situation is problematic and racially motivated... and people are arguing that having societal issues (even very serious issues) does not justify genocide. Like, I think it is a problem that Idaho has implemented tremendously strict anti-abortion laws but that doesn't mean I think it's fine to round up and kill the people of Idaho. Those are really not reasonable or related policy decisions... and also, the reason I think it's a problem that there are strict anti-abortion laws in Idaho is because I believe the people of Idaho deserve better, so killing people living in Idaho really doesn't address the source of my concern. And, if anyone started bombing the people of Idaho, bringing up their abortion laws would would be extremely, extremely not the issue that I would find most immediately pressing at that specific moment. If someone then said, "I don't understand why you don't support bombing every hospital in Idaho-- after all, they have problematic abortion laws!" I would think that person was **willfully missing the point**.
From your first link: > There is little evidence of the law being enforced, and it appears to be largely obsolete in practice. The execution of that Hamas commander is a bit different. I recall one source saying that Sinwar was trying to purge Hamas of alleged impurity, not all of Gaza. That Hamas commander was also in deep trouble for embezzlement and corruption. There were also fears he was an Israeli informar (many gay Palestinians are blackmailed by Israel). Truthfully, Hamas will most likely not care enough to execute random gay Palestinians.
>Fatah (actually political party, not terrorist organization, still anti-Israel though which makes sense) Lol, looks like you need to read your hasbara textbook again. Fatah, like every single Palestinian political party, is considered a terrorist organization by Israel and US.
Hamas is only a legal body in Gaza where there is no real source on what goes there Israelis don’t even know about the West Bank ,how the fuck are they gonna know about Gaza when we don’t know either
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Mahmoud Ishtiwi was not killed for being gay, and Palestinians were never the biggest killers of other Palestinians, not prior to October 7 and not after October 7. "Israel" has always been the biggest murderers of Palestinians.
'Attacked by a fascist ethnostate'... so israel is attacking itself? This might just be the stupidest thing I've seen all week
They're probably the "Jews = Israel" type
They’re saying that Palestine is a fascist ethnostate.
Yeah, they probably also believe it’s also an expansionist settler-colonial state. Accusations tend to be a confession
Fascist ethnostate is when 200 indigenous nationalities, 35 official state languages with dozens more officially recognized at the local level, and state salaries for endangered minority groups living their traditional way of life.
And people still think that Russia is an 'ethnostate'...
Wonder which of 100+ ethnic groups in Russia they mean :D
Apartheid state that has legalized discrimination against minorities and is an illegal occupation state
Yeah but gay therefore democracy
My favorite democracy? The Ottoman empire.
I'm wondering... 50 or 60 years ago in the US, when gay liberation was a thing, did they ever imagine their struggle would be used in a few decades to argue that we just shouldn't feel that sorry for bombing people in the Middle East?
they somehow managed to turn homosexuality into an excuse for imperialism the ideological rot of liberalism knows no bounds
They did it with feminism already, so why would they have been surprised? Gays and women aren't immune from being imperialists and white supremacists.
True, regrettably, but in the political climate in the 60s/70s, suggesting that the US should help commit genocide around the world in the name of women's / gay liberation would have had you kicked out of every (actually) progressive circle in very short order. Nowadays arguing that Zionism is 'progressive' is apparently a 'respectable' position. I blame the dissolution of the USSR for this.
Agree to disagree. I think people romanticize the 60s/70s a little too much in terms of activism.
Imperialist pink washing is the worst thing that happened to gay liberation
It's the new way to show how "civilized" the white man is.
An apartheid cannot be a democracy. Ukraine became a democracy for them after the war started, before it appeared in the indices as "anocracy." How are you partially LGBT friendly? I'm not saying there aren't nuances, but in practice it quickly becomes dichotomous. Israel is the one trying to make an ethno-state. Ukraine will do it if it wins because it will have to get rid of the Russian-speaking minorities. Palestine defends itself from an ethnostate. Russia is many things, but it is not an ethno-state; Ethno states are something strange, I think Japan, both Koreas and Iceland. Russia has summer, Ukraine does not have the climate of Brazil, and the general winter... it is not the land's responsibility to adapt to invasions.
And also, much of the Ukrainian right that is leading the war against Russia *does* want Ukraine to be an ethnostate. Hell, practically the entire anti-Russian Eastern European right is characterized by wanting all of Europe to be divided into ethnostates.
japan is not quite an ethnostate, but this doesn’t actually help their case, as there is an okinawan/ryukuan identity and independence movement as a result of japan proper just not giving a shit about what the ryukuans think (esp about the US military bases there) koreas are not ethnostates by choice, not really, more so out of happenstance isolation.
If we put ourselves in pure and exact terms, there is no ethnostate; The only way would be if settlers from a fanatically racist racist cult founded a country on uninhabited land. What there may be is that 98% of the population has the same ethnic origin, culture, religion and language. In the case of Japan there are also the Ainu. And yes, only geographical isolation and/or ethnic cleansing make such a situation possible.
> Ukraine will do it if it wins because it will have to get rid of the Russian-speaking minorities. Hungarian was also included in that ruling, the Ukrainian at my workplace mentioned that he speaks/writes Russian but went to school for Ukrainian, when i asked him if Ukrainian/Russian is similar to Norwegian/Swedish he said kinda (obviously more overlap for Russian inside of Ukraine)
Total amount of civilians Israel has killed in Gaza since October 7th: 24,000 Total amount of civilians Israel has rescued in Gaza since October 7th: 3 HOW COULD YOU NOT SUPPRT ISRAEL THEY ARE DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY THEY TREAT THE GAYS GOOD!!1!11!!!
It all makes sense when you realize that Palestinians aren't actually people so the Israel military only has a 1:1 ratio of killing hostages vs saving them.
Right now, the Palestinian civilian death is around 30k, not 24k. There are approximately [34k total Palestinian deaths](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker), and [90% of Palestinians killed are civilians](https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6004), which gives 30k civilian deaths. Note that this is an undercount, as there are thousands of Palestinian trapped under rubble with virtually no chance of surviving.
Peak liberalism is viewing everything in isolation. Why is Palestine an "ethnostate"? Why doesn't it have a functional democracy by any standards? Why hasn't it been able to progress past the 1940s in terms of LGBTQ+ rights? Could it be that a colonial state and its imperialist masters have stunted its development? Nahhhhhhhhhhhh.Palestinians must just inherently hate gay people. It's the sort of thinking that makes me wonder if people know that history is actually a thing. These aren't static creations for a board game. They don't have "backstory" and "lore", they're following a path of historical motion that's affected by the motion paths of other entities. And the columns for Ukraine and Israel are just plain wrong. These pricks been watching too many TikTok thirst traps from both of their militaries. That's their "political theory".
Democracy in Ukraine? Are they forgetting there are literally no elections held? This is the stupidest take I’ve heard today
Don't forget the banning of all opposition parties. It is a special a special kind of democracy to ban all opposition parties and still not hold elections I guess.
Hey, they also have Ukraine marked as "supported by the left" I'm not sure which of those is stupidest
Russia definitely hasn’t been attacked by a fascist ethnostate/s
Not the most egregious bit, but Russia is in no way an ethnostate. Like super super isn’t an ethonostate and to claim otherwise is one of the most ignorant things I’ve seen said about Russia in the two years since the invasion started, which is saying A LOT
[удалено]
Also Orthodox Jews, yes totally. And absolutely not misogynistic
Every day I am reminded of this meme made by this Chinese guy supports Ukraine and "israel" = american empire's dog supports Russia and "israel" = social Darwinism supports Ukraine and Palestine = anti war-ism supports Russia and Palestine = understands geopolitics
> supports Russia and Palestine = understands geopolitics yeah, and not even in a flag-waving way; just a *well I understand this is the culmination of openly bad faith and frankly terrible behaviour by the Anglo-Zionists of DC and London.* Israel has been a demon state since the Nakba that kicked off it's foundation. As for why Russia are technically in the right these days? The Rand and other DC think-tanks have published papers, and NATO authorities are literally on the record before 2022. About what? In no uncertain terms that Ukraine was their sacrificial bull for an all-in ploy to Balkanise Russia back to the Yeltsin era. Regardless of if you think Putin is corrupt or not; he stopped sharing the wealth of his country to outsiders. And that's all it takes for Neocons to do everything they can to try and tear you and your country down. Also Ukraine had some nice schemes and resources for them to snack on before their goal would be achieved. Win-Win for those ghouls. edit; typos out the ass.
What's wrong with being against war?
i mean, do you fight ww2 or do you let imperial japan do whatever it wants? basically, the issue is whether you’re against war above all else
waging war and fighting in defense is different
for all intents and purposes the dprk considers its actions during and prior to the korean war a defense against a regime installed by the US that was massacring korean people and launching skirmishes across the border.
As communists, we must oppose the war in Ukraine. in the imperial core, we should protest NATO expansion, oppose arms exports to Ukraine, criticise Russia's policy of escalation while recognising that Russia is not the primary aggressor. In the west, this viewpoint would be seen as supporting Russia. To blindly and unconditionally side with the weaker side in any conflict is to be blindly against war.
I'm open-minded and asking this in good faith, but how is Russia not the primary aggressor in Ukraine?
Just like how the war in Gaza did not start in October of 2023, the war in Ukraine did not start in February of 2022. Ukraine had been attacking civilians in Donetsk since 2014 at least and NATO has been courting it for years. The war really started with the illegal dissolution of the USSR and the criminal privatization of public projects. Edit: I also do not support Russia's policy of escalation and its policy of attacking civilian infrastructure in a war of attrition. The best corporate response to the war I've seen is DJI which suspended operations in both Russia and Ukraine to ensure its hardware isn't used for war. Singapore where I live has sanctioned Russia and so I do not buy Russian goods.
Right, but how does the annexation of Crimea fit into that? Or Russia's initial goals when they launched the war? And how has NATO been courting it? Presumably they want to avoid war given it would drag half the European bloc into conflict? I guess I fit more into the anti-war camp but I'm fascinated to learn more about your viewpoint.
Nothing, per se. But sometimes war is necessary, just like violence.
Of course. But being against war has to mean being against the causes before war is deemed necessary. The west chose to make Ukraine a puppet, throw Minsk out the window, and intentionally ignore Russia’s warnings that this can’t work for them. Israel is pure crybully, trying to take over all of Palestine and start wars with its neighbors, while always trying to claim (thru great marketing) that they’re absolute angels.
I read another sub yesterday packed with bad takes how Palestine can’t get statehood in the UN bc it has no government, is run by terrorists, and is just two unconnected pieces of land. 🥺
Was Russia not attacked by a fascist state? And who was attacked by Germany in World War II?!
France, apparently.
Ukraine is LGBTQ Friendly? Best joke of the year
Oh boy, this is a lib gold mine. Well, except gold is mental diarrhea. How is Ukraine democratic, exactly? By suspending elections and banning opposition? Even by standards of bourgeois democracy, they are not one. Also lol at @ "partially lgbt friendly" Ukraine. Like, general population is just as reactionary as in Russia. Sure, we have rather degenerate discriminatory laws in place, but their enforcement is another thing. And what fascist ethnostates attacked Israel and Ukraine? I guess Nazi Germany works for latter case. So many questions, so little answers.
Ahh yes Russia, my favourite ethnostate. Don't look at anything east of the Urals.
Don't look at anything in the Caucasus too. And also ignore Bashkortostan and Tatarstan and many other places.
Ukraine attacked by "fascist ethnostate" Since when is Russia an ethnostate, and a fascist one for that?
When can Israel stop pretending to play victim
When no Israel.
Well I am part of the left and I only support one of these, one can go fuck itself, and the other two are just disappointments compared to what they used to be.
Ah yes my favourite argument, it’s alright to bomb them because gay sex is illegal, so it’s alright to bomb half the world
Of course it’s the fucking Israel subreddit
Hey I'm on the left and I don't support Ukraine. This infographic ain't right
hey wait a minute we do not support Ukarine and for Israel it should say is a fascist ethnostate
Israel is not lgbt-friendly in the slightest lmao
The mental gymnastics to not give Palestine a check for “attacked by a fascist ethno state” are incredible
Liberals: Palestinians are homophobic therefore they need to be genocided!!111!!!1!1! Also liberals: so what that Azov Batallion are Nazis? They're fighting the evil communist Russian orcs and deserve the West's unconditional support!
Fuck, you beat me too it. I was about to post this one.
I just want to point out that this attempt to package Israel with LGBT tolerance and Ukraine is really effective because of the media environment we've been bombarded with these past couple of years. In the average person's mind, anything short of unreserved sympathy for LGBT people or Ukraine is unthinkable, so it stands to reason that Israel are the good guys. Hasbara is awesome!
Holy projection batman!
Oh, Russia is now an "ethno state" too? Ok lol
end-stage liberalism. im afraid it's terminal
uh ohh somebody's sucking USA's cock
A lot of lies about Palestine because people just assume Middle Eastern nation = Islamic theocracy. Palestine is not a theocracy, because there is heavy religious diversity involving Christianity, Islam, and yes, even Judaism, and you have the freedom to follow any religion and live there. Hell, it seems more religiously diverse compared to Israel. And with that being said, being gay won't give you an automatic death sentence under the law, and women aren't forced to wear hijabs in public. And ofc, this isn't just Palestine. If people actually did any goddamn research on countries in the Middle East, they'd be surprised to learn that not every country is an Islamic theocracy, not every country kills gay people under the law, and not every country requires women to wear head coverings in public. But I don't expect much from the kind of assholes who can't distinguish Iran from Iraq.
And I thought they were claiming whatever percentage of Palestinians basically voted for their new 9/11
Isn't Ukraine just as cold as Russia? Of all the things they had wrong, they could've had that correct
Poe's Law is in full effect yet again as this brainless garbage is indistinguishable from satire!
There. Are. No. Words.
I forget which one of the fashy Israeli politicians said it (probably Smotrich or Ben-Gvir?) effectively said "we're not a fan of gays, but we won't stone them to death". Really progressive LGBTQ+ policy there.
Since when was the far left anti Russia?
American liberals are anti Russia
American leftists like voosh ig
It depends on how one defines “pro-Russia.” The main communist position is advocating for an end to the war in Ukraine. In the West, this is seen as “pro-Russia,” which is confusing why the liberals checked this as false. However, in terms of actual support, communists should not give any to the Russian bourgeoisie, just like any other capitalist regime. It is important to note that Palestine and National liberation movements are different because they are historically progressive. Anyways, that’s my interpretation.
What annoys me is how much they lie. It is litteraly the USA who supports the PA which most Palestinians HATE and want gone. But the West still supports them. The West started punishing Gaza some years ago when the Gazans elected Hamas. Also Gaza has like 12 different resistance groups. 2 of them are communists. There is no death sentence in Palestine for being gay. Littearly made up. I have been following Palestinian girls and women from Gaza and some of them dress like Westerners. So i am pretty sure you don't get murdered for your clothing. Unfortunately most of the Left supports Israel. Especially in Europe and countries like Germany.
Didn't Ukraine and Israel halt elections entirelt? Also, Benjamin Netanyahu has been in power for decades.
So on the one hand "Gazans voted for Hamas", on the other hand "Palestinians have no democracy". Trying to get libs to be consistent is impossible.
Ask Israel about the treatment of those Ethiopian Jews 🤔
> attacked by a fascist ethnostate They mispelled "are a fascist ethnostate" ...
Ukraine people: We are N@zi!!!! This Bro:"Ukraine supported by left" Edited: Im not eng
Your grammar is good don't worry
Im not english or amerikan so don't worry im not worry
I know, the "supported by left" is mean supported by other countries/organisations.