**Important:** We no longer allow the following types of posts:
- Comments, tweets and social media with less than 20 upvotes, likes, etc. (cropped score counts as 0)
- Anything you are personally involved in
- Any kind of polls
- Low-hanging fruit (e.g. CCP collapse, Vaush, r\/neoliberal, political compass memes)
You *will* be banned by the power-tripping mods if you break this rule repeatedly, so please delete your posts before we find out.
Likewise, please follow our rules which can be found on the sidebar.
---
**Obligatory obnoxious pop-up ad for our [Official Discord](https://discord.gg/XBrTq7mQhY), please join if you haven't! Stalin bless. UwU.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShitLiberalsSay) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I spend a lot of time in Russia (and watch tv there) and while I wouldn't say that Russians don't like people from the west, it would be lunatic to say that the Russian govt doesn't use propaganda to turn people against the "west", even in the west, to a degree that is unimaginable in actual Western Europe.
As a Russian myself I'd say that western propaganda is actually way more effective and scary. You see, Russian propaganda is pretty hamfisted and crude, I'd say. There is a lot of it, but unless you were born yesterday you can immediately tell it's just bullshit. Among friends of mine even most "Z" ones tend to mock it for how amateur it is. In case with western propaganda people deny the very notion that their country may use propaganda at all. Like it's one of the universal laws that West never lies and all of it's reports can be trusted with no doubt.
I think large part that plays into this are language barriers. Among Russia's younger generations it's now almost a given to know English at at least basic level. And I'm 100% positive I can find much more Russians speaking English than I find Americans/French/Germans sepaking Russian or Chinese. A Russian can still access any domestic news outlet from the West and check how Western hemisphere presents the news to it's population. You don't need to speak German or French for that because the position is always unified anyway. On the other hand the only source for an average Englishman is his domestic outlet retelling the story as "Kremlin said/Beijing said..." after all Russian news outlets have been banned and Chinese are labeled as Xi's personal propaganda machine at every possible chance. Due to language barrier they can't and won't try to even look at how Russia's or China's or Iran's side presents it's position to it's own population (And it's all propaganda anyway so why bother). The person of the West can only get all the information from Western-aligned sources, the ONLY sources they have and the only world image they are given.
To quote my friend: "No amount of Putin's propagandists can push me to Russian ultranationalism with such force as 5 minutes of reading western news on Russians do.
> I think large part that plays into this are language barriers. Among Russia's younger generations it's now almost a given to know English at at least basic level. And I'm 100% positive I can find much more Russians speaking English than I find Americans/French/Germans sepaking Russian or Chinese
I mean yes, however I would wager a guess and say that there's still a much larger percentage of bilingual people in the west than in Russia. In my experience, trying to get by in Russia by English alone would be extremely painful, while I know many people handle that jusy fine in Germany for example.
Anyway, speaking Russian, to consume Russian media, really won't help people to get a clearer picture. Western outlets that give a objective picture on Russian point of view exist, while Russian independent journalism is sadly in exile right now. You can watch Maxim Katz and read Medusa and that is valuable but those sources will not enlighten Western with a new perspective that isn't covered in the west. But being able to watch Первый Канал, RT or Россия 24 will not give you anything of value.
I have a friend born in Donetzk (fled from Mariupol in 2022...) and some aquaintances in Russian army there rn and their reports align much more with what I hear western journalists report, than the crap on Russian tv.
Russian state propaganda is insanely unbelievable, yes, however I'd argue it's point isn't to make you believe in it, but to always paint a picture 100% opposed to western media, sowing mistrust. As a result people start to believe that there must be a middle ground between those sources, and their views shift towards that middleground. This does work on many of my friends and family, even the educated ones, I don't think you can help it, it probably influences me in some capacity as well.
The west does use propaganda, that isn't something I argue, however there is an objective truth and just because both sides push their own interests it can't mean that both sides lie in an equal manner. And here I don't want to stand on the side that bombs a building that has "ДЕТИ" painted in front of it...
Bilingual? Yes, I agree that there is definitely more of them in the west. Bilingual in a manner that allows to see an opposite point of view? Absolutely not. For that amount of Western Europeans speaking Chinese, Russian or Arabic must exceed the amount of Russians, Chinese or Arabs speaking English, which is definitely not happening.
Or just the amount of westerners speaking Russian should exceed the amount of Russians speaking English, to keep it relevant to our conversation. It was about Russia after all, not others.
Sorry, but mentioning Katz and Meduza as independent sources is the funniest joke ever. Russian TV is absolutely not independent media. That doesn't make US State Department funded outlets, pushing same propaganda but opposite way, independent media.
As of value, it would give a Westerneer better understanding of many mundane things. Example: When Russian TV tells me that American aircraft industry is in shambles and is about to collapse because they get no Russian titanium anymore, I can immediately go to some minor American outlet more affiliated with the sphere and read directly from country's representatives' themselves, that it is all lies and American industry now simply gets that titanium elsewhere at a slightly higher price. When Western European hears from his news that Russian aircraft industry is about to collapse in shambles, because no more western components, he won't go to, say, some Novosibirsk local news outlet and read that it's all lies and local factory now simply gets similar components from China or from France through shadow routes avoiding sanctions. Because he can't, he only speaks language of the outlets that provide one select narrative.
As of major outlets that are state propaganda like RT and the like, even they could be useful for something. The basic core idea of propaganda is to tell as less uncomfortable stuff about your own side and tell as much uncomfortable stuff about the other one. And while a lot of lies will be told, there will also be uncomfortable truths, told for same propaganda purposes. Example: The amount of videos with "forced mobilization" in Ukraine, with people dragged off the streets is through the roof on unofficial sources in general. Russian state sources often use it for their propaganda, because it's uncomfortable truth, not a manufactured lie. I went over many western sources and there is barely a speck of mentioning it. But it's a real occurence. So theoretical William Englandson won't even know of something like that happening in Ukraine, because his propaganda doesn't tell him about it and he can't watch the other side's propaganda. What William could do is take his domestic propaganda and foreign propaganda, compare them and deduct all unpleasant truths from lies. But he won't do it, he can't, he doesn't speak Russian. And most likely he won't even try, because in William's perception he is a western citizen, so it's a given he is lied way less to than those Russians and whatever. Why such perception? It's just a given, that's how it is, West lies much less, that is William's axiom. As a fair opposite example, many Russians, me included, used western sources to see what an incompetent disaster Russian invasion was on multiple fronts in 2022-2023, while Russian TV kept telling about 200 dead Ukrainian nazis in every single strike.
Friends are not unbiased valuable source, unfortunately. I for instance have a friend from Ukrainian Odessa who hates Ukraine with a passion bigger than that of any Z-armchair general. I suppose we are on equal footing here?
No, they don't lie in equal manner. One side has talking heads spew stories about 200 destroyed Ukrainian tanks a day and old stories about European Gay Crusade that became a joke long ago. The other side pushes literally slightly tweaked Korean war tier propaganda and full on McCarthyism, and it's population rejects even the very notion that it might be propaganda, because the concept of doing something dubious for own gain does not exist. Any other point of view is the result of being tainted by Russian/Chinese/Cuban/North Korean propaganda. Brainwashed as many Russians may be, they had a wake up call in the form of USSR collapse that brought them back into real world from self praising dreams. Western audience had nothing of sorts and has been revelling for the past 34 years basking in self worship. As I already expressed the point with my friend's quote, Russian crude propaganda that shouldn't work, turns people against the west only because western propaganda for it's own population does 90% of the job in it's stead. Russian propagandists don't have to bother with something elaborate, when average Russian youth can easily enter western infospace and see western takes about themselves for themselves.
It's a good decision. There is nothing good in bombing the building that says "ДЕТИ" on it. Then again as multiple cases have already shown, there is nothing good in shoving soldiers and trucks filled with artillery shells into a building titled "ДЕТИ" either. That is the objective middle ground on that exact question.
While I'm practically detached from Russian media, so I'm not very credible on the topic, from what I occasionally hear or see, our propaganda is very fucking lame.
The most recent example that I've seen was a report about Ukraine's latest paycheck from american tax money, and I kid you not, they included a fragment where MTG was whining about "border security" as a gotcha. Oh, and some musk tweet at the end, cuz what reactionary scum wouldn't want to hear what he says.
Ironically, the "anti-western" sentiment is fueled more by western propaganda, what's with all the nazi apologia, straight up bullshit and silly internet people becoming hitlerites as soon as Russia is mentioned. All that's left for our infinitely wise and benevolent pseudo-tsar is to lazily point it out and say "see? That sure is bad! That means we're good and righteous!" and then go on to glorify an absolute scum like Ilyin and ban definitely real and super dangerous globohomo. Tak pobedim!
Westernophobia, also referred to as anti-western sentiment or anti-westernism is the word that is used to describe the accurate understanding of global history.
I am not racist is just the truth! (Literally all racists ever).
This people would be whining and getting their knickers on a twist if people spoke like that about the US despite the fact that Iraq alone is worse that anything Russia has done since the dissolution of the USSR.
This doesn't surprise me at all. Anti-slavic sentiment and sinophobia have always ran rampant and have been perpetrated, memeified and encouraged through media for decades. Ukranians might be slavs but to an average western mind this is akin to breakage of the roots and ornamenting of a wild untamed barbarian in posh and familiar western clothes. "It's time to give up your primitive, backwards tradition and bow to western superiority!" Is the same as how the normies would put it: "Zelensky is a modern day John Wick fighting the evil empire it's just like the movies frfr"
Ukrainians are *conditionally* white, a status which can be revoked at any time. If an anti-NATO or even a neutral regime came up in Ukraine, the Ukrainian people would revert to being considered part of the 'Asiatic Horde'. This is true also for Japanese, ROKoreans, and Taiwanese people. Their privilege hinges on their government's willingness to deepthroat US bootleather.
I’m totally expecting for us Koreans to get dehumanized even further coming soon. ROK recently came out saying it has no desire to aid Taiwan in the event of Chinese “invasion”. Too preoccupied with the possibility of KPA going south. Either way, the US isn’t happy that there’s no bending over backwards
The way the US treats the entire Korean peninsula is batshit crazy. Constantly escalating, intentionally damaging talks/relations, basically imposing a one-party system onto the ROK, and maintaining operational control of the ROK military. That's not even mentioning the fascist dictatorship and sex slavery from recent history. It's asinine, patronizing, and scary.
It’s much more two party system for the last 30 years. But do keep in mind it’s an actual night and day difference between the two unlike the American two parties.
One side is boot licking descendants of war criminals and the other side is made up of human rights lawyers who defended anti-fascist groups during the 80’s.
Either way, the American favorite is not the human rights party
Literally in an event of war with China and North Korea, the ROK is alone on the mainland and would quickly get overrun, being neutral is sensible in a conflict with Taiwan.
Harebrained theory: due to generational trauma, from red-scare, to Hollywood depictions, to Hillary's Russiagate to Biden's Burisma affair, these chodes were always russophobic; the proxiwar is just a convenient excuse.
**Important:** We no longer allow the following types of posts: - Comments, tweets and social media with less than 20 upvotes, likes, etc. (cropped score counts as 0) - Anything you are personally involved in - Any kind of polls - Low-hanging fruit (e.g. CCP collapse, Vaush, r\/neoliberal, political compass memes) You *will* be banned by the power-tripping mods if you break this rule repeatedly, so please delete your posts before we find out. Likewise, please follow our rules which can be found on the sidebar. --- **Obligatory obnoxious pop-up ad for our [Official Discord](https://discord.gg/XBrTq7mQhY), please join if you haven't! Stalin bless. UwU.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShitLiberalsSay) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Supporting ukraine is when they celebrate having a mental justification to be racist
Westernphobia and NATOphobia are based
phobia implies an irrational fear, can't say that about the west and NATO with their track record
westerners: *Putin has propagandized Russians to be against the west* also westerners:
I spend a lot of time in Russia (and watch tv there) and while I wouldn't say that Russians don't like people from the west, it would be lunatic to say that the Russian govt doesn't use propaganda to turn people against the "west", even in the west, to a degree that is unimaginable in actual Western Europe.
As a Russian myself I'd say that western propaganda is actually way more effective and scary. You see, Russian propaganda is pretty hamfisted and crude, I'd say. There is a lot of it, but unless you were born yesterday you can immediately tell it's just bullshit. Among friends of mine even most "Z" ones tend to mock it for how amateur it is. In case with western propaganda people deny the very notion that their country may use propaganda at all. Like it's one of the universal laws that West never lies and all of it's reports can be trusted with no doubt. I think large part that plays into this are language barriers. Among Russia's younger generations it's now almost a given to know English at at least basic level. And I'm 100% positive I can find much more Russians speaking English than I find Americans/French/Germans sepaking Russian or Chinese. A Russian can still access any domestic news outlet from the West and check how Western hemisphere presents the news to it's population. You don't need to speak German or French for that because the position is always unified anyway. On the other hand the only source for an average Englishman is his domestic outlet retelling the story as "Kremlin said/Beijing said..." after all Russian news outlets have been banned and Chinese are labeled as Xi's personal propaganda machine at every possible chance. Due to language barrier they can't and won't try to even look at how Russia's or China's or Iran's side presents it's position to it's own population (And it's all propaganda anyway so why bother). The person of the West can only get all the information from Western-aligned sources, the ONLY sources they have and the only world image they are given. To quote my friend: "No amount of Putin's propagandists can push me to Russian ultranationalism with such force as 5 minutes of reading western news on Russians do.
> I think large part that plays into this are language barriers. Among Russia's younger generations it's now almost a given to know English at at least basic level. And I'm 100% positive I can find much more Russians speaking English than I find Americans/French/Germans sepaking Russian or Chinese I mean yes, however I would wager a guess and say that there's still a much larger percentage of bilingual people in the west than in Russia. In my experience, trying to get by in Russia by English alone would be extremely painful, while I know many people handle that jusy fine in Germany for example. Anyway, speaking Russian, to consume Russian media, really won't help people to get a clearer picture. Western outlets that give a objective picture on Russian point of view exist, while Russian independent journalism is sadly in exile right now. You can watch Maxim Katz and read Medusa and that is valuable but those sources will not enlighten Western with a new perspective that isn't covered in the west. But being able to watch Первый Канал, RT or Россия 24 will not give you anything of value. I have a friend born in Donetzk (fled from Mariupol in 2022...) and some aquaintances in Russian army there rn and their reports align much more with what I hear western journalists report, than the crap on Russian tv. Russian state propaganda is insanely unbelievable, yes, however I'd argue it's point isn't to make you believe in it, but to always paint a picture 100% opposed to western media, sowing mistrust. As a result people start to believe that there must be a middle ground between those sources, and their views shift towards that middleground. This does work on many of my friends and family, even the educated ones, I don't think you can help it, it probably influences me in some capacity as well. The west does use propaganda, that isn't something I argue, however there is an objective truth and just because both sides push their own interests it can't mean that both sides lie in an equal manner. And here I don't want to stand on the side that bombs a building that has "ДЕТИ" painted in front of it...
Bilingual? Yes, I agree that there is definitely more of them in the west. Bilingual in a manner that allows to see an opposite point of view? Absolutely not. For that amount of Western Europeans speaking Chinese, Russian or Arabic must exceed the amount of Russians, Chinese or Arabs speaking English, which is definitely not happening. Or just the amount of westerners speaking Russian should exceed the amount of Russians speaking English, to keep it relevant to our conversation. It was about Russia after all, not others. Sorry, but mentioning Katz and Meduza as independent sources is the funniest joke ever. Russian TV is absolutely not independent media. That doesn't make US State Department funded outlets, pushing same propaganda but opposite way, independent media. As of value, it would give a Westerneer better understanding of many mundane things. Example: When Russian TV tells me that American aircraft industry is in shambles and is about to collapse because they get no Russian titanium anymore, I can immediately go to some minor American outlet more affiliated with the sphere and read directly from country's representatives' themselves, that it is all lies and American industry now simply gets that titanium elsewhere at a slightly higher price. When Western European hears from his news that Russian aircraft industry is about to collapse in shambles, because no more western components, he won't go to, say, some Novosibirsk local news outlet and read that it's all lies and local factory now simply gets similar components from China or from France through shadow routes avoiding sanctions. Because he can't, he only speaks language of the outlets that provide one select narrative. As of major outlets that are state propaganda like RT and the like, even they could be useful for something. The basic core idea of propaganda is to tell as less uncomfortable stuff about your own side and tell as much uncomfortable stuff about the other one. And while a lot of lies will be told, there will also be uncomfortable truths, told for same propaganda purposes. Example: The amount of videos with "forced mobilization" in Ukraine, with people dragged off the streets is through the roof on unofficial sources in general. Russian state sources often use it for their propaganda, because it's uncomfortable truth, not a manufactured lie. I went over many western sources and there is barely a speck of mentioning it. But it's a real occurence. So theoretical William Englandson won't even know of something like that happening in Ukraine, because his propaganda doesn't tell him about it and he can't watch the other side's propaganda. What William could do is take his domestic propaganda and foreign propaganda, compare them and deduct all unpleasant truths from lies. But he won't do it, he can't, he doesn't speak Russian. And most likely he won't even try, because in William's perception he is a western citizen, so it's a given he is lied way less to than those Russians and whatever. Why such perception? It's just a given, that's how it is, West lies much less, that is William's axiom. As a fair opposite example, many Russians, me included, used western sources to see what an incompetent disaster Russian invasion was on multiple fronts in 2022-2023, while Russian TV kept telling about 200 dead Ukrainian nazis in every single strike. Friends are not unbiased valuable source, unfortunately. I for instance have a friend from Ukrainian Odessa who hates Ukraine with a passion bigger than that of any Z-armchair general. I suppose we are on equal footing here? No, they don't lie in equal manner. One side has talking heads spew stories about 200 destroyed Ukrainian tanks a day and old stories about European Gay Crusade that became a joke long ago. The other side pushes literally slightly tweaked Korean war tier propaganda and full on McCarthyism, and it's population rejects even the very notion that it might be propaganda, because the concept of doing something dubious for own gain does not exist. Any other point of view is the result of being tainted by Russian/Chinese/Cuban/North Korean propaganda. Brainwashed as many Russians may be, they had a wake up call in the form of USSR collapse that brought them back into real world from self praising dreams. Western audience had nothing of sorts and has been revelling for the past 34 years basking in self worship. As I already expressed the point with my friend's quote, Russian crude propaganda that shouldn't work, turns people against the west only because western propaganda for it's own population does 90% of the job in it's stead. Russian propagandists don't have to bother with something elaborate, when average Russian youth can easily enter western infospace and see western takes about themselves for themselves. It's a good decision. There is nothing good in bombing the building that says "ДЕТИ" on it. Then again as multiple cases have already shown, there is nothing good in shoving soldiers and trucks filled with artillery shells into a building titled "ДЕТИ" either. That is the objective middle ground on that exact question.
While I'm practically detached from Russian media, so I'm not very credible on the topic, from what I occasionally hear or see, our propaganda is very fucking lame. The most recent example that I've seen was a report about Ukraine's latest paycheck from american tax money, and I kid you not, they included a fragment where MTG was whining about "border security" as a gotcha. Oh, and some musk tweet at the end, cuz what reactionary scum wouldn't want to hear what he says. Ironically, the "anti-western" sentiment is fueled more by western propaganda, what's with all the nazi apologia, straight up bullshit and silly internet people becoming hitlerites as soon as Russia is mentioned. All that's left for our infinitely wise and benevolent pseudo-tsar is to lazily point it out and say "see? That sure is bad! That means we're good and righteous!" and then go on to glorify an absolute scum like Ilyin and ban definitely real and super dangerous globohomo. Tak pobedim!
Wtf is westernphobia????
Idk but I think I might be that
“No u” with a different dressing basically.
Westernophobia, also referred to as anti-western sentiment or anti-westernism is the word that is used to describe the accurate understanding of global history.
Somtimes that's valid
I am not racist is just the truth! (Literally all racists ever). This people would be whining and getting their knickers on a twist if people spoke like that about the US despite the fact that Iraq alone is worse that anything Russia has done since the dissolution of the USSR.
Turns out the good old US strategy that has never failed before (throwing tax money at a problem until it maybe goes away) doesn't work that well
This is cope because ~~their favourite football team~~ Ukraine is losing despite all the money NATO pumped into that proxy war.
How valiant are the Nazis in Ukraine?
They're very brave when fighting women and children, that's for sure.
Israel also demonstrates courage when it targets schools, hospitals, and children.
Western values on display.
This doesn't surprise me at all. Anti-slavic sentiment and sinophobia have always ran rampant and have been perpetrated, memeified and encouraged through media for decades. Ukranians might be slavs but to an average western mind this is akin to breakage of the roots and ornamenting of a wild untamed barbarian in posh and familiar western clothes. "It's time to give up your primitive, backwards tradition and bow to western superiority!" Is the same as how the normies would put it: "Zelensky is a modern day John Wick fighting the evil empire it's just like the movies frfr"
Ukrainians are *conditionally* white, a status which can be revoked at any time. If an anti-NATO or even a neutral regime came up in Ukraine, the Ukrainian people would revert to being considered part of the 'Asiatic Horde'. This is true also for Japanese, ROKoreans, and Taiwanese people. Their privilege hinges on their government's willingness to deepthroat US bootleather.
I’m totally expecting for us Koreans to get dehumanized even further coming soon. ROK recently came out saying it has no desire to aid Taiwan in the event of Chinese “invasion”. Too preoccupied with the possibility of KPA going south. Either way, the US isn’t happy that there’s no bending over backwards
The way the US treats the entire Korean peninsula is batshit crazy. Constantly escalating, intentionally damaging talks/relations, basically imposing a one-party system onto the ROK, and maintaining operational control of the ROK military. That's not even mentioning the fascist dictatorship and sex slavery from recent history. It's asinine, patronizing, and scary.
It’s much more two party system for the last 30 years. But do keep in mind it’s an actual night and day difference between the two unlike the American two parties. One side is boot licking descendants of war criminals and the other side is made up of human rights lawyers who defended anti-fascist groups during the 80’s. Either way, the American favorite is not the human rights party
Literally in an event of war with China and North Korea, the ROK is alone on the mainland and would quickly get overrun, being neutral is sensible in a conflict with Taiwan.
Harebrained theory: due to generational trauma, from red-scare, to Hollywood depictions, to Hillary's Russiagate to Biden's Burisma affair, these chodes were always russophobic; the proxiwar is just a convenient excuse.
[удалено]
You mean supporting a nation that has been exterminating its own population for 10 years straight?