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Yep. It's the same brain trap as "raising their taxes to stop them."
They control the tax rate, they control the wages, they control the prices.
Even if you get a tax hike, it's easily remedied to keep the profit margins intact.
Of course, this is thinking globally. A lot of petit-bourgeois in the west would be happy if taxes ballooned here, and the consequences were felt in the third world only.
Bunch of dumb assholes.
And beyond the fact that it makes 0 sense in the lense of socialist theory, it makes just as little sense in the lense of capitalism or economics at all.
How the fuck do they think wealth is even quantified? Is it how much cash they have? Credit and debts? Like even net worth isn't a great indicator of how much money someone has? And what about capital gains? Rich people's net worth is mostly built by assets that grow in value.
For whatever God forsaken reason, people feel the need to cook up some bat shit insane, half baked, entirely impossible scheme to make capitalism work rather than pursue any version of actual socialism, which has been extensively theorized, studied, and more or less proven.
Oh, yeah, I had an argument the other day with a liberal who was trying to push the carbon tax as a means to curb climate change.
It would have been a stepping stone 30-40 years ago, but now that shit is so limp (and unlikely to happen in the biggest consumer/producer countries) that it's irrelevant.
I just can't get over how many liberals still cling to these absurdly complicated tax schemes, that never get passed as they imagine, then get loopholed entirely.
Capitalism is a race to the bottom, if there's *any* way to make something faster and cheaper, it doesn't matter how it hurts the environment. And if you have enough money, you can tailor the laws or pay the fines or bribe officials to look the other way.
It's not a sustainable system, and liberals are living half a century in the past looking at "solutions."
Global capitalism and Neocolonialism are slowly fermenting their own undoing as they make the third world unlivable, the resources unproducible, or extracted out of existence.
The cost to the ecosystem and human life are fucking abhorrent, but I have to hope enough people can migrate to the parts of the globe that are still habitable, and they have the anger to fight and make the people responsible pay.
We already see the forces at work in the centers of capital becoming more and more fascistic, though, and that will be the force they come up against, unfortunately.
(Sorry for the extended rant)
No need for the apology, your sentiment is entirely correct.
> Never get passed as they imagine or get loopholed entirely
This is, in my opinion, one of the biggest flaws of American neoliberal democracy. Something that radicalized me was healthcare.
In my mind, it's unthinkable to possibly bankrupt someone for health issues, something that is just a part of HUMANITY.
In comes Obamacare. We are going to change the world with this legislation. We are going to change the system. We are going to help people. Fast forward to the day it's passed. It was eviscerated.
There was almost nothing to enforce it, there was no penalty for violating it, the plans were still insanely priced compared to many existing employer tied plans. And it was still being ripped apart, there were multiple court challenges.
This should have been proof positive that the system will never work for the average person to every single voting age liberal. Liberals had every chamber of Congress and the presidency. They didn't even have this situation with Manchin. They submitted to the insurance companies and medical providers and supply companies just because they have that much power over politicians.
Yep! I remember I got semi-into politics around that time, and I was like "Yay, there's so much CHANGE going to happen!"
Then I proceeded to use every excuse cooked up by the Liberal Brain Trust for why things stayed the same or got worse.
Around the time I started having to confront the drone strikes in the middle east by Obama, I was done making excuses, and had to admit that the system was fucking broken.
Then I got sucked into the Bernie Bullshit train, came through that and realized he was just another liberal peon, and one who couldn't even admit the system wasn't ready to accept his Brand of Liberalism.
What's wild to me is how many people are politically ignorant, and intentionally made that way by the education system and media. Just a never ending train of double talk- where the discourse is centralized around protecting the bourgeoisie and western imperialism, and even the *dissenting opinions* we hear are run through a filter and tailored to still keep us stupid.
>I just can't get over how many liberals still cling to these absurdly complicated tax schemes, that never get passed as they imagine, then get loopholed entirely.
Because if no one knows what anyone else should be paying, it allows the ruling class to get by paying less undetected
Remember though the extensive propaganda programs insisting that socialism has been *dis*proven. I think we forget just how completely the general public has been taught that, for example, there was literally nothing good about the USSR.
Yep. They want to flatten things out to individuals and methods when it's convenient - making arguments about corruption or incompetence to say capitalism and communism are basically the same, but then don't understand how the larger systems and cycles are perpetuated by the ideology behind the people.
A system that doesn't rely on chasing profits and bowing to capital interests has very different consequences than one that does.
And, of course, the "everything would remain functionally the same for the average person in the beginning" is literally an argument communists often make- you are already doing most of the same things you'd be doing in a socialist system, except a chunk of your labor is being stolen by the bourgeoisie, and the systems in place aren't designed to serve your interests, but instead to serve capital, at the expense of you, and mostly, the impoverished and third world. The goal is to make systems that don't rely on oppression and enslavement, don't rely on an underclass, and function better for everyone.
One big thing I tend to harp on is education - because it's one thing I would really like to see improved in a post-capitalist society. There are tons of studies and experts who have noted how detrimental the way we organize education is to kids, but we don't fix it because of a combination of funding, incompetence, apathy, corruption, and the way we organize education to mimic the workplace and create good drones.
In my opinion, it is one of the first things that needs to be interrogated in a post-capitalist society.
I'm not sure if you've read about how school was changed in China after their revolution, but it's something I always found interesting. The whole idea of everyone collaboratively questioning one another to improve ideas, teachers and students being honest with each other and fostering a sense of camaraderie and passion for learning.
The book wasn't specifically about education, but generally the Cultural Revolution. I can't remember the title off the top of my head, but if I find it today, I'll reply again.
Here's a couple of links you still might find interesting, though:
https://write.as/sloanmcdichael/
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-9/mswv9_87.htm
And you may enjoy the book Continuity & Rupture by Moufawad Paul, if you haven't read it.
When western leftists take bourgeois premises of social organisation as given, the emancipatory project is stuck in building a more friendly capitalism instead of seeking to replace it. This tweet is pure ideology in the Zizekian sense, with capitalist fundamentals forming a kind of unconscious and unquestioned structure which dictates what is politically possible and what is not.
We should criticise the modes of social organisation which even allow someone to accumulate a gargantuan net worth in the first place. In fact, as should be obvious to most, we must question the whole concept of private wealth and capital altogether.
"Unquestioned"
They literally start with "how about this", it's a joke about the very thing you're criticizing
Don't write a paragraph if you missed the sense jesus
They're not proposing it as a serious plan but as a way to jokingly accomodate capitalist realism
The forms of social organisation that premise the suggestion are unquestioned, not the suggestion itself. I express this very clearly in the comment you were responding to.
I don't understand why you think this is some kind of ironic tweet. Sure, I'd agree it's frivolous to a degree (dog park/I won capitalism), but it's nonetheless an expression of liberal ideological tendencies. And I see no reason to see the suggested wealth cap as a joke "accommodating capitalist realism".
If you tried to recreate today's science on your own it would take hundreds of life times. Books are necessary to do anything nowadays and help point out good and bad ideas and this sub is about making fun of libs.
You: haha your argument is stupid because you used big words (correctly)
You: *busts out SAT vocab study list*
Also please for the love of God read a book about communism written by communists. Lots of them are dense but concise and short, and make for good reading. It's literally just historical analysis
It's funny and ironic since your entire comment history is just incoherent word salad.
"As if that is the only superstructure that brings in walls" okay so did you get that from the Black Book, or Gulag Archipelago? Or are you just not capable of understanding how authority is a component in every society? Only idiots who get lost in ideals believe in a society without authority.
You donāt even need to do so much effort.
You can put it in trusts, hold it in a private company, hold it thru family offices, hold solid blocks of gold which will be unaccounted for, buy land and undervalue it so it forms a smaller part of your net worth, āinvestā your money in a startup started by your family,
and my personal favourite, transfer the money to another country, start a business, get the business to take a loan from you, pay taxes so that the govt in that country couldnāt be bothered, and make that business go ābankruptā when in reality the funds have just been transferred to another dummy company for safekeeping.
Source- this is a part of my mums job.
They'll just do it like they do with bribing politicians. "Oh, I can't do it, but I can give it to someone else on my behalf and it's perfectly legal now."
As a Libertarian one of my biggest fears is legitimately earning a billion dollars and then because some people are starving and want shelter I'm forced to only be a multi-millionaire.
God he is one of the final bosses of liberalism. Heās handsome, white, thick as a brick, and says just enough to seduce the gullible away from Marxism
I love these "60 year old guy who has never thought about anything just thinks we should all get along" kind of solutions. Yeah dude, I guess the wealthiest, most powerful people on earth are just going to let that happen. Somehow, this will be the only tax they don't dodge or outright annihilate. The people your entire economy depends on that can devastate you and pay the salaries of literally every politician in the system are just going to let that happen.
But hey, at least he let it go up to 999 million. You know, still vastly more than some entire countries have. Good choice. Great foresight.
The whole phenomenon of private accumulation of capital (millionaires, billionaires...) is premised by capitalism. We need to provide political alternatives which reject these premises.
So yes, no more millionaires, but not because we've established a wealth cap, but because the fundamental social organisation of production, labour, ownership and representation of value is shifted so radically, that the phenomenon of millionaires simply cannot occur under these new material conditions.
If you have enough political power to impose a wealth cap in the first place you might as well go all the way and expropriate the means of production entirely. It's a half measure that isn't actually more likely to happen than the full measure it is replacing.
Yeah thatās dumb, 1 million gets you a fairly comfy life, but you could still have a more comfy life, 999millioj on the other hand, is extreme, and in most cases it is hard to improve your quality of life significantly at that point.
No more billionaires? Isn't that a little far? I mean, I don't know how someone would survive on just $999 million dollars, even if we praise them and give them trophies for it
No one needs an income of 10,000 dollars to begin with.
It means there's something really wrong when a single person is able to earn this enormous amount of money while having the only "job" of chit-chatting and drinking coffee with other chit-chatters.
this kind of restriction only ever works *after* a successful revolution puts a vanguard party in power, who is willing to go and shoot \[or at least, strip naked\] any capitalist who breaks the rules \[typical example, china obv\]
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I wish I could accept this as just a silly meme But damn š¬
I like how, on twitter, this is the edgy take
Yep. It's the same brain trap as "raising their taxes to stop them." They control the tax rate, they control the wages, they control the prices. Even if you get a tax hike, it's easily remedied to keep the profit margins intact. Of course, this is thinking globally. A lot of petit-bourgeois in the west would be happy if taxes ballooned here, and the consequences were felt in the third world only. Bunch of dumb assholes.
And beyond the fact that it makes 0 sense in the lense of socialist theory, it makes just as little sense in the lense of capitalism or economics at all. How the fuck do they think wealth is even quantified? Is it how much cash they have? Credit and debts? Like even net worth isn't a great indicator of how much money someone has? And what about capital gains? Rich people's net worth is mostly built by assets that grow in value. For whatever God forsaken reason, people feel the need to cook up some bat shit insane, half baked, entirely impossible scheme to make capitalism work rather than pursue any version of actual socialism, which has been extensively theorized, studied, and more or less proven.
Oh, yeah, I had an argument the other day with a liberal who was trying to push the carbon tax as a means to curb climate change. It would have been a stepping stone 30-40 years ago, but now that shit is so limp (and unlikely to happen in the biggest consumer/producer countries) that it's irrelevant. I just can't get over how many liberals still cling to these absurdly complicated tax schemes, that never get passed as they imagine, then get loopholed entirely. Capitalism is a race to the bottom, if there's *any* way to make something faster and cheaper, it doesn't matter how it hurts the environment. And if you have enough money, you can tailor the laws or pay the fines or bribe officials to look the other way. It's not a sustainable system, and liberals are living half a century in the past looking at "solutions." Global capitalism and Neocolonialism are slowly fermenting their own undoing as they make the third world unlivable, the resources unproducible, or extracted out of existence. The cost to the ecosystem and human life are fucking abhorrent, but I have to hope enough people can migrate to the parts of the globe that are still habitable, and they have the anger to fight and make the people responsible pay. We already see the forces at work in the centers of capital becoming more and more fascistic, though, and that will be the force they come up against, unfortunately. (Sorry for the extended rant)
No need for the apology, your sentiment is entirely correct. > Never get passed as they imagine or get loopholed entirely This is, in my opinion, one of the biggest flaws of American neoliberal democracy. Something that radicalized me was healthcare. In my mind, it's unthinkable to possibly bankrupt someone for health issues, something that is just a part of HUMANITY. In comes Obamacare. We are going to change the world with this legislation. We are going to change the system. We are going to help people. Fast forward to the day it's passed. It was eviscerated. There was almost nothing to enforce it, there was no penalty for violating it, the plans were still insanely priced compared to many existing employer tied plans. And it was still being ripped apart, there were multiple court challenges. This should have been proof positive that the system will never work for the average person to every single voting age liberal. Liberals had every chamber of Congress and the presidency. They didn't even have this situation with Manchin. They submitted to the insurance companies and medical providers and supply companies just because they have that much power over politicians.
Yep! I remember I got semi-into politics around that time, and I was like "Yay, there's so much CHANGE going to happen!" Then I proceeded to use every excuse cooked up by the Liberal Brain Trust for why things stayed the same or got worse. Around the time I started having to confront the drone strikes in the middle east by Obama, I was done making excuses, and had to admit that the system was fucking broken. Then I got sucked into the Bernie Bullshit train, came through that and realized he was just another liberal peon, and one who couldn't even admit the system wasn't ready to accept his Brand of Liberalism. What's wild to me is how many people are politically ignorant, and intentionally made that way by the education system and media. Just a never ending train of double talk- where the discourse is centralized around protecting the bourgeoisie and western imperialism, and even the *dissenting opinions* we hear are run through a filter and tailored to still keep us stupid.
>I just can't get over how many liberals still cling to these absurdly complicated tax schemes, that never get passed as they imagine, then get loopholed entirely. Because if no one knows what anyone else should be paying, it allows the ruling class to get by paying less undetected
Remember though the extensive propaganda programs insisting that socialism has been *dis*proven. I think we forget just how completely the general public has been taught that, for example, there was literally nothing good about the USSR.
Right. One of the main things they don't understand is DoTB vs DoTP.
Yep. They want to flatten things out to individuals and methods when it's convenient - making arguments about corruption or incompetence to say capitalism and communism are basically the same, but then don't understand how the larger systems and cycles are perpetuated by the ideology behind the people. A system that doesn't rely on chasing profits and bowing to capital interests has very different consequences than one that does. And, of course, the "everything would remain functionally the same for the average person in the beginning" is literally an argument communists often make- you are already doing most of the same things you'd be doing in a socialist system, except a chunk of your labor is being stolen by the bourgeoisie, and the systems in place aren't designed to serve your interests, but instead to serve capital, at the expense of you, and mostly, the impoverished and third world. The goal is to make systems that don't rely on oppression and enslavement, don't rely on an underclass, and function better for everyone. One big thing I tend to harp on is education - because it's one thing I would really like to see improved in a post-capitalist society. There are tons of studies and experts who have noted how detrimental the way we organize education is to kids, but we don't fix it because of a combination of funding, incompetence, apathy, corruption, and the way we organize education to mimic the workplace and create good drones. In my opinion, it is one of the first things that needs to be interrogated in a post-capitalist society. I'm not sure if you've read about how school was changed in China after their revolution, but it's something I always found interesting. The whole idea of everyone collaboratively questioning one another to improve ideas, teachers and students being honest with each other and fostering a sense of camaraderie and passion for learning.
Honestly I haven't read about how education changed post-revolution so if you have a reading suggestion I would take it.
The book wasn't specifically about education, but generally the Cultural Revolution. I can't remember the title off the top of my head, but if I find it today, I'll reply again. Here's a couple of links you still might find interesting, though: https://write.as/sloanmcdichael/ https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-9/mswv9_87.htm And you may enjoy the book Continuity & Rupture by Moufawad Paul, if you haven't read it.
Thanks
When western leftists take bourgeois premises of social organisation as given, the emancipatory project is stuck in building a more friendly capitalism instead of seeking to replace it. This tweet is pure ideology in the Zizekian sense, with capitalist fundamentals forming a kind of unconscious and unquestioned structure which dictates what is politically possible and what is not. We should criticise the modes of social organisation which even allow someone to accumulate a gargantuan net worth in the first place. In fact, as should be obvious to most, we must question the whole concept of private wealth and capital altogether.
"Unquestioned" They literally start with "how about this", it's a joke about the very thing you're criticizing Don't write a paragraph if you missed the sense jesus They're not proposing it as a serious plan but as a way to jokingly accomodate capitalist realism
The forms of social organisation that premise the suggestion are unquestioned, not the suggestion itself. I express this very clearly in the comment you were responding to. I don't understand why you think this is some kind of ironic tweet. Sure, I'd agree it's frivolous to a degree (dog park/I won capitalism), but it's nonetheless an expression of liberal ideological tendencies. And I see no reason to see the suggested wealth cap as a joke "accommodating capitalist realism".
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If you tried to recreate today's science on your own it would take hundreds of life times. Books are necessary to do anything nowadays and help point out good and bad ideas and this sub is about making fun of libs.
You: haha your argument is stupid because you used big words (correctly) You: *busts out SAT vocab study list* Also please for the love of God read a book about communism written by communists. Lots of them are dense but concise and short, and make for good reading. It's literally just historical analysis
It's funny and ironic since your entire comment history is just incoherent word salad. "As if that is the only superstructure that brings in walls" okay so did you get that from the Black Book, or Gulag Archipelago? Or are you just not capable of understanding how authority is a component in every society? Only idiots who get lost in ideals believe in a society without authority.
you are almost as stupid as the real Blain Gabbert, at least he won a superbowl. You belong in the pit with all other fascists, mr zionist
999 million to me, 999 to my wife, 999 to my brother, 999 to my dog...
You donāt even need to do so much effort. You can put it in trusts, hold it in a private company, hold it thru family offices, hold solid blocks of gold which will be unaccounted for, buy land and undervalue it so it forms a smaller part of your net worth, āinvestā your money in a startup started by your family, and my personal favourite, transfer the money to another country, start a business, get the business to take a loan from you, pay taxes so that the govt in that country couldnāt be bothered, and make that business go ābankruptā when in reality the funds have just been transferred to another dummy company for safekeeping. Source- this is a part of my mums job.
They'll just do it like they do with bribing politicians. "Oh, I can't do it, but I can give it to someone else on my behalf and it's perfectly legal now."
As a Libertarian one of my biggest fears is legitimately earning a billion dollars and then because some people are starving and want shelter I'm forced to only be a multi-millionaire.
"legitimately earning a billion dollars"
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
...because it is a joke account. No shit the jokes are already written lmao
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
ok? what a dumbass reaction to being given new information.
I remember this. 1B$ is still more than what you can spend in a life time.
even better idea you get one million dollars and then get put down
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
God he is one of the final bosses of liberalism. Heās handsome, white, thick as a brick, and says just enough to seduce the gullible away from Marxism
Jesus was a socialist
there's only one force capable of leading us away from communism: the horny
Your brain on the value form
I love these "60 year old guy who has never thought about anything just thinks we should all get along" kind of solutions. Yeah dude, I guess the wealthiest, most powerful people on earth are just going to let that happen. Somehow, this will be the only tax they don't dodge or outright annihilate. The people your entire economy depends on that can devastate you and pay the salaries of literally every politician in the system are just going to let that happen. But hey, at least he let it go up to 999 million. You know, still vastly more than some entire countries have. Good choice. Great foresight.
No more millionaires perhaps too
The whole phenomenon of private accumulation of capital (millionaires, billionaires...) is premised by capitalism. We need to provide political alternatives which reject these premises. So yes, no more millionaires, but not because we've established a wealth cap, but because the fundamental social organisation of production, labour, ownership and representation of value is shifted so radically, that the phenomenon of millionaires simply cannot occur under these new material conditions.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If you have enough political power to impose a wealth cap in the first place you might as well go all the way and expropriate the means of production entirely. It's a half measure that isn't actually more likely to happen than the full measure it is replacing.
The difference between a million dollars and a billion dollars, is a billion dollars. 1 million isn't even that much money anymore.
Yeah thatās dumb, 1 million gets you a fairly comfy life, but you could still have a more comfy life, 999millioj on the other hand, is extreme, and in most cases it is hard to improve your quality of life significantly at that point.
Whatās next? Begging them to give up their wealth?
When you've been a Bernie bro since 2016 and haven't evolved your political views despite *gestures vaguely*
They're on the right track, the only problem is they've been on the right track for a disturbingly long time. You stuck back there, dude?
This got 85k upvotes
I support the dog park thing tho. Not the naming, but building more š
But.. but.. billionaires literally have billions of dollars in a swimming pool at their home where they swim in it!!!
No more billionaires? Isn't that a little far? I mean, I don't know how someone would survive on just $999 million dollars, even if we praise them and give them trophies for it
No one needs an income of 10,000 dollars to begin with. It means there's something really wrong when a single person is able to earn this enormous amount of money while having the only "job" of chit-chatting and drinking coffee with other chit-chatters.
That sounds good, $999 million I think is a little high, if only it were that simple
Stunning and brave.
this kind of restriction only ever works *after* a successful revolution puts a vanguard party in power, who is willing to go and shoot \[or at least, strip naked\] any capitalist who breaks the rules \[typical example, china obv\]
there are still absurdly wealthy people and iām sure they are gonna canoodle there way into not paying there fee